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Found 302 results

  1. Honor died, but we have several clues in RoW indicating that he may be re-emerging. We've known since OB that Dalinar has taken up Honor's perpendicularity. Rayse believes Dalinar ascended, but I don't think Dalinar is the one ascending, actually. Like ... like ... like Odium. Everywhere we see red and gold together, it is Odium. Perhaps this is merely an indication that Kal is close to becoming a Child of Odium at this particular moment, howling after losing Teft and then these eyes. At the same time, Odium-red eyes have previously always been caused by a bond with voidspren, which seems not to be the case here. And why would soldiers fear a child of Odium, like themselves? Instead, perhaps these colors point to Kaladin's coming ascension. Honor's robes are gold, as well. Moash's continual insistence surrounding Kaladin's immortality certainly points to ascension. Finally, Tara-Odium notices a "growing" and "verdant" power, which is clearly pointing toward Cultivation. However, just as the back of RoW falsely implies that Navani will be a Lightweaver with its half-dozen references to truths and lies, I believe this most obvious allusion to Cultivation is not the one actually intended. Verdant can also mean brand new and budding. Growing points to something new.
  2. So now we know that Nightblood is big and bad enough to destroy a vessel. Now, while Szeth doesn't know that's what happened, Big T does know, and must be aware that NB is one of the only entities on Roshar of which he needs to be actively scared. He's also acutely aware of how dangerous Szeth is, both from a mental stability standpoint and a pure lethality sttandpoint. With all that in mind, I can't imagine he's not going to make a play for NB - what if Dalinar chooses Szeth as his champion? Mr T can't take the risk of NB being in play and must be formulating a plan to rid Szeth of the sword. Now imagine that OdiVargo's champion is wielding Nightblood. We've seen it straight up Annihilate heavily invested entities and chip an honorblade. Scary stuff. Thoughts?
  3. Much of the plot of Oathbringer and now Rhythm of War has been driven by Odium's desire to free himself from Honor's shackles and escape to do Odium things in the rest of the cosmere. His first plan was stopped dead by Cultivation's timely restoration of Dalinar's memory, and his second plan was rudely interrupted by Nightblood. And now he is bound to an agreement with Dalinar that focuses exclusively on his release. However, should he win that duel, I think Odium will be rather surprised! THEORY: Odium is too Invested in Roshar to leave, just like any other Shard on their homeworld. That is to say: he's stuck. Interestingly, this theory also involves the details of the Recreance, of which several more have been revealed. There was a theory post floating around somewhere that I will try to find and edit the link in where large parts of this were discussed, so this is not entirely my original work. EDIT: Similar thoughts were noticed here, specifically the ten-centric argument. The two three tones of Roshar The first and most important step for this theory is an off-hand comment by the Sibling. In RoW Ch 69, they specifically refer to the two pure tones: Obviously, given that this is the Sibling speaking, they are referring to the tones of Honor and Cultivation. It is not hard to reason that when the Sibling was created, Honor and Cultivation both had become Invested enough in Roshar to start making great works. This also comes with the necessary perpendicularities, the magic systems, and so on. And, importantly, until now, they were only aware of the two tones and had no idea Odium was involved at all. Another aspect of being significantly Invested in a planet is that Shards can't really leave. I don't have the exact quote for this (I'm looking for it), but WoB tells us that Shards get stuck to their home planets and that their shardpool is actually a manifestation of this. As it applies to Roshar, it is not hard to see that Honor and Cultivation are stuck. Then why does the Sibling refer to two tones instead of three? Well, the natural guess is that Odium was not previously Invested enough in Roshar to cause it to register as "home." I propose that the introduction of the third tone is what caused the Sibling to forget his original tone, on account of everything shifting in the Spiritual Realm to accommodate the new tone. This seems like it would be a vastly unpleasant experience in all three Realms, and indeed the Sibilng refers to it as such in RoW Ch 49: RoW Ch 49: In summary, when Odium was suddenly Connected enough to Roshar to register his own tone, it changed the others enough that the Sibling forgot theirs. Now, what sort of event would that be? Ba-Ado-Mishram and the Recreance The previous theory reference above made a rather elegant claim: the Recreance was caused by Melishi doing whatever was necessary to bind BAM into a gem and stop the False Desolation. The Knights, seeing the damage done to the singers, decided that they could no longer continue on in good faith. And, as RoW showed us, the spren agreed. I propose that the damage was much more serious. The first example of this is in Kalak's epigraphs (RoW Ch 97): We also know that the Recreance changed something fundamental about spren and the Nahel bond (note the Sibling quote above, and here in RoW Ch 115): It's not hard at all to connect the dots here: Melishi imprisoning BAM led to the singers being Disconnected, the Sibling to losing their rhythm, and the creation of deadeyes. The Everstorm and Voidbinding A cosmere scholar might ask at this point: if Odium is now tied inexorably to Roshar, where is his corresponding manifestation? Shouldn't there be symmetry here? And the answer is yes, that's the Everstorm. Honor and Cultivation both are involved in highstorms -- Honor's power and Cultivation's life-giving crem. Odium, correspondingly, has a storm that allows his Fused to be reborn. Now, the Everstorm cannot itself be the catalyzing event described above since it is too new, but it's not actually new (as we see in RoW Ch 73): What I am proposing, effectively, is that the Everstorm has been building ever since the Knights inadvertently tied him to Roshar. Actually getting it to cross over into the Physical Realm took time and planning, of course, but it stands to reason that a huge chunk of Investiture like the Everstorm can only exist if the Shard in question is tied down to the planet. It's also worth noting that the vast majority of power employed by the Fused during the war does not appear to be of Odium. Instead, they are using Voidlight to power Odium's corrupted (i.e., red) version of Surgebinding. This is obvious from the fact that the Fused are merely imitating the magic system: no spren and access to only one Surge. Assuming that this was true during true during past Desolations as well, Odium was not using his own Roshar-based Voidbinding. We know that Voidbinding must be Roshar-based because it has ten levels (and Braize is nine-centric), so its existence means that Odium is Invested in the planet enough to form a magic system. As an aside, a good question for Brandon is to ask if there is an Odium perpendicularity in the Everstorm. Given that the Fused come out of the storm and inhabit new bodies, I would say that is is likely. Conclusion Originally, Odium was fighting a foreign war on Roshar, sending Fused who used Rosharan magic to fight the humans. He was not originally Invested enough in Roshar to have his own tone or magic system, but this changed during the Recreance. 'Suddenly Odium' was a problem for the spren and specifically the Sibling, but it also means that Odium is too Invested in the planet to leave. If he hasn't figured this out already, he's in for a rude awakening should he defeat Dalinar. EDIT: Thanks to whichever mod moved this to the appropriate subforum
  4. So it seems clear in WoR that Rayse was losing control of his power. It is mentioned by the texts from Sazed, power can be seen to be leaking out of him in his discussions with Dalinar and Taravangian, and Sja-Anat is actively working against him. The question though is, why? Was Rayse acting against his Intent? The only thing I can think of was his insistence that his was the shard of Passion, which would then be against the Intent of the shard, however it seemed to me that he was still acting pretty Odious. Any ideas what caused Rayse's rejection by Odium?
  5. When Navani is performing her experiment on the three types of light she sees that there is an expanded color in each one as compared to normal light. Stormlight is blue, which is Honor's color, Lifelight it is green for Cultivation's color, but for Voidlight it is violet. As far as I remember, Voidlight is the only instance where some of Odium's Investiture isn't Gold or Red, which strikes me as suspicious. I also don't know anything in the Cosmere which is associated with violet either. I also can't seem to find any WOB which directly confirms that Voidlight is of Odium. Closest I have been able to find is this one: Is this a thing, or am I seeing something imaginary?
  6. Apologies if this is an old idea - it's new to me! I just read a theory on Reddit discussing how Taravangian was set up to be Dalinar's foil, and how well that fits with him taking up Odium and Dalinar seemingly being on a path towards reclaiming Honor (or something like that, at least). We know that Cultivation had a hand in both Taravangian's Ascension and Dalinar's journey, by interacting with them both directly when they visited the Nightwatcher. We also know of one other person who interacted with Cultivation directly - Lift. My theory is that Cultivation, in addition to preparing Taravangian to take up Odium (confirmed) and Dalinar to take up Honor (suspected), is also preparing Lift to be her own successor. Evidence in favour of this, in addition to the above pattern, that I can think of off the top of my head: Lift's character so far is based very strongly on the idea of not changing, which is more or less the antithesis of Cultivation's Intent. As we've seen, she is changing despite her best efforts and pleas to Cultivation. This seems to set the stage very nicely for an interesting character arc. She has bonded a Cultivationspren. She can metabolise food directly into Lifelight - Cultivation's light. There might be more, or I could be completely wrong. But I found it interesting to think about nevertheless, and I hope you do too!
  7. There is a theme that keeps coming up often enough that I'm starting to think its a clue as to the fate of the Cosmere, and the motivation of Adonalsium. The heralds are immortal beings that have minds, that have been "corrupted" by madnesses unique to each of them. At first I thought this was tied to their torture on Braize in between desolations, but I think it's also been hinted at that more than just the torture is wracking their minds. The immortality itself means their memories have disappeared into oblivion, which has contributed to the destruction of their identity as well: Kelek's Note: It's not just the heralds. A lot of immortal beings are tired of life. Secret History: I think Zahel is wrong. I think that cognitive shadows are the soul or contain the soul. The spren thing comes up a lot in RoW, but I think its wrong, if only because we see that the spren become more human-like over time rather than the other way around. Investiture becoming conscious and making decisions; it feels like spontaneous life from power, sort of Cosmere abiogenesis. I think that there are some more clues about this with Ishar's experiments trying to bring them into the physical realm. Also, is Ishar one of the five scholars? Something dark is going on there, maybe Ishar is the bad guy for the back 5? Anyway, more issues with immortality: Through Mistborn through era 2: Elantris Bringing it all back around: In RoW we get the BEST vision that Dalinar has ever sent to anyone, and I think this gives us a clue as to the meta-theme of the cosmere: This is the real deal. Somehow Dalinar used connection to allow a conversation between Tien's REAL soul with Kaladin. I think this has major implications for "Journey before Destination" - that connection is formed on the journey, and that it is possible to revisit those moments through connection. And Tien somehow influenced the world to get this object back to him. I have no idea how. Fortune maybe? The message is here: So what is the implication for the greater cosmere, history and direction? i laid it out kind of in a previous post I think these all point to a risk of immortality / immortality being a double edged sword, as a theme in the Cosmere. Even Adonalsium is hinted to have known about, and perhaps even had some part in their own shattering. I actually think this is the inspiration behind the Iriali religion. Dawnshard: So what is Odium's Endgame? I think with Odi-vangian we are going to see something interesting - Odium wants to preserve ALL life through making them immortal. I think this will end up being very anti-"Life before Death, Journey before Destination, Strength before Weakness". He wants to SAVE US ALL. To do it he will still likely want to destroy all other shards to be the last one standing. I think it might be interesting to see the endgame be the right to die (and go to the Beyond), versus the right to immortality but as a slave/servant/underling of the only god, Odium.
  8. tl;dr version: In this post I will try to convince you that Voidbinding is a nascent magic system of both Odium(“void”) and Honor (“binding”), and present a theory on how it was created Voidbinding doesn't make sense as Odium's magic system The name: we now know from multiple sources that Adhesion, the Surge of binding things together, is the one closest to Honor. The Fused don't even recognize it as a Surge; they talk about Surges, but don't seem to use the word Surgebinding. They are called Voidbringers (I'm sorry, Singers ). Why would Odium's magic have 'binding' in its name? It's pointless: why would Odium grant anybody the power of futuresight if it interferes with his own and ultimately leads to his downfall? 10-centric: Voidbinding has ten levels. Yes, there are nine Unmade and they lack the Bondsith one, but that's just happenstance – we know from the Sibling that the tenth Unmade can be created. Why would Voidbinding be based on the number associated most closely with Honor? Why is the Voidbinding chart so similar to Surgebinding and so unlike the Fused abilities? Lore: the first mentions of mortals using Voidbinding abilities we know seem to be from around the time of the False Desolation: Listener songs mention the Nightform (and BAM as a source of Forms of Power) and we see potential information about corrupted Truthwatcher spren in Urithiru Gem Archive. Besides that we only have the general idea that futuresight is of Odium, but that could have come from the Unmade alone (per Taravangian's word, they all can grant it). There's rich lore about the Unmade, but none about Voidish Surges besides Illumination. The Fused are surprised that Voidspren can bond with humans and they don't see anything weird with the fact that there are no Nightforms around during the Final Desolation. Previously I believed that Voidbinding might have originated on Ashyn, but BAM's deep ties to Roshar seem to disprove that Unexplained phenomena: what's the source of BAM's massive Connection ability? Why did her imprisonment caused so much damage to Roshar if she was just Odium's splinter? Why did the Sibling stop hearing Honor's Rhythm? How could BAM and Sja-anat rebel against Odium's will? Why was Warlight never discovered before? Surgebinding vs fabrials Before we move further, one more thing needs to be discussed: why are there two magic systems of Honor and Cultivation? The Rhythm of War finally gave me some idea about the difference. The fabrials are like feruchemy – they are a perfect balance between the powers of two Shards, as indicated by the nature of the Sibling and the Towerlight. Surgebinding is also of both Shards, but it's biased towards Honor. It uses more of his Investiture: it's powered by Stormlight, Honorblades are Honor's splinters, the most powerful and mystical Order is based around uniting, not growth. What happened with the surplus of Cultivation's Investiture then? It's simple: it became the basis for the Old Magic, a magical “appendage” originating from a single Shard Ba-Ado-Mishram is the source of Voidbinding I believe that's what Odium wanted: a simple set of magical powerful abilities to be used by the Unmade to do his bidding. That's why the Voidbinding was called the cousin of the Old Magic. It was always meant to be used by the Unmade only, not become a full magic system. I believe, however, that at some point something extremely important happened – BAM was infused with Honor's Investiture and completely transformed. I'm not sure how or who did it; we have several plausible suspects: Ishar, Honor, Cultivation and (Dawnshard spoilers) Whoever that was, as a result of their action BAM became deeply Connected to Roshar and turned into something similar to the Sibling. She was suddenly able to produce Warlight and use it to control the Singers, just like the Sibling controls fabrials. She was able to grant Forms of Power from a completely new magic system: full, 10-centric Voidbinding, whose relation to the original Unmade abilities is just like the relation between the Old Magic and Surgebinding. Her abilities (and newfound autonomy) extended, to some extent, to other Unmade, especially Sja-anat, allowing her to corrupt True Spren. The one thing she couldn't do in the days before her imprisonment, however, was to create spren that would grant full Voidbinding – there wasn't simply enough Odium Investiture on the planet. Now, however, the situation has changed: the Everstorm circulates Roshar and clashes with the Highstorm, providing the exact conditions that she needs, once she's released (most likely in Book 5). This will lead to unleashing the full power of Voidbinding, which will become a major plot point (and a weapon against Odium) in Arc 2
  9. So, one of the biggest bombshells in the series so far came near the end of Rhythm of War; Rayse is out of the picture for good, and Taravangian has ascended to become the new Odium. I'll admit it took me surprise; I thought there was a decent chance Rayse would die before the end of the series (and Taravangian was on my shortlist for people likely to take up his Shard) but I didn't think it would happen until Stormlight Five at the earliest. Which does lead one to wonder - with the apparent 'big bad' of the series dead four books in, who will end up taking his place as the greatest threat to Roshar? I have some thoughts of my own, but I'm curious as to where the overall opinion of the fandom is leaning at this stage.
  10. So the Dawnshard novella just recently came out and it had some seriously juicy lore tidbits for all of us to chew on. I'm going to be putting my interpretation of it here along with what I think is a probable timeline of events involving the Dawnshards. Nature of the Dawnshards So Adonalsium gave four primal Commands that spawned the Dawnshards and created the Cosmere. We know that one of them is Change and that together all four were used to Shatter God himself. I'm thinking these Commands are similar to the Christian notion of "Let there be light" while the resulting Dawnshards are a sort of imprint on the world left by the Commands. If God turning on the lights was a boot, the Dawnshard is a boot print. I believe these four Commands were Change, Survive, Unite and Distinguish. I don't know if these are the actual names of the Dawnshards (I would be surprised if Distinguish was 100% correct) but the gist of it remains the same. These four are two sets of two that, while not exactly opposite, are in some respects opposed. None are negative or positive, they simply are. Change and Survive are opposed as survival requires a certain amount of stasis. Unite and Distinguish are opposed as Distinguish implies individuality and unity implies a certain common ground. The Shattering of Adonalsium I believe that at one point they were all combined into a single weapon that was used to Shatter Adonalsium and that Hoid was the one who actually holding the thing when it all went down, as is referenced by Hoid being both "Topaz" as well as the "Bearer of the First Gem" as well as the WoB's that we have stating that the weapon used to kill Adonalsium is drained and inoperable and that Hoid's immortality is derived from it. It's drained because the Dawnshards were removed from it and Hoid's immortality comes from Survive. From Nikli's line in the novella we know that wielding a Dawnshard makes "Demands on a level that no person could ever manage alone..." Thus I believe that while Hoid was the one actually pulling the trigger, there was another group bracing and bolstering him, probably a group of 16, aka the Shardic Vessels. Think the ending scene from Guardians of the Galaxy. Starlord got his hands on the Infinity Stone but he couldn't use it until they all united their strength by using the secret move "Power of Friendship" :). I think that's what happened here only more premeditated God-murder and less dance off. Scattering of the Dawnshards My next bit of wild speculation is that I believe that when Adonalsium was Shattered, the Dawnshards contained in the weapon were scattered to four of the Vessels. Which Vessels got chosen probably had to deal with the specific theme of each Shard of Adonalsium. Cultivation and Ruin, for instance, both fit squarely in the Change quadrant. Here's how I think the Shards fall into the quadrants. Change - Ruin, Cultivation, Endowment Survive - Preservation Unite - Honor, Devotion, Dominion Distinguish - Odium, Autonomy, Ambition Ruin is Change through destruction. Cultivation is Change through improvement. Endowment is Change through transfer. Preservation is Survival through stasis. Honor is Unity through shared ethics. Devotion is Unity through love. Dominion is Unity through law and government. Distinguish is all about individuality (which is why I was having trouble with the word Distinguish. Individuality is not a verb!!!). This would mean the Odium is individuality through emotion, Autonomy is individuality through isolation and Ambition is individuality through accomplishment. I believe that Hoid either got the Survive Dawnshard or had it before the Shattering and the it somehow ended up with Preservation after everything was said and done. It is currently hidden on Scadrial somewhere. Honor got the Unity Dawnshard and took it with him to Roshar. I'm not sure who ended up with the Change Dawnshard but they must have given it up or had it taken from them somehow, probably the former, and it was then carried to Roshar and hidden in the cavern in Akinah. This leaves Distinguish, which I believe fell into Autonomy's hands. It's use might explain her weird avatar situation, granting herself an excess of individuality. She gave it to Odium to use in killing Devotion, Dominion and Ambition. This is how he wiped the floor with them without breaking a sweat, even in a two on one fight. This is also probably why Brandon was cagey about whether Bavadin helped Odium splinter D&D. She didn't really help commit the murder, she just handed the murderer a gun at some point. Dawnshard Battle on Roshar After Odium got done taking out D&D and Ambition, he set his sights on Honor and Cultivation. Big problem here though. Honor had a Dawnshard. I don't think he was actively using it though. It's my guess that there was some sort of agreement among the Vessels to not wield both a Shard and a Dawnshard at once. It would upset the balance of power too much. This is why Survive is being stored away on Scadrial, why Change was sort of floating around until it ended up in Aimia and why Honor was letting Ishar hang on to Unite, which he used to bind the surgebinders with oaths and create the Oathpact. But Odium broke the rules and so Honor took his Unite Dawnshard back to kick some butt. The problem for Honor was that Odium is just insanely more practiced and skilled in Shard on Shard combat at this point and was just more skilled with using a Dawnshard in general. Sure they both had guns but one has a seasoned fighter and the other was an amateur. Regardless Honor was enough of a threat with his Dawnshard that Odium had to take things slow and be cautious. This is also probably why Cultivation stayed out of this for the most part. She wasn't armed. Eventually Odium gets the upper hand and slips in a killing blow but Honor leaves his cognitive shadow, along with the Dawnshard that it's carrying, behind and has it fuse with the Stormfather. This now means that any Bondsmith that bonds to the Stormfather now has access to a Dawnshard as well as the Shard of Honor relative to how closely bonded they are with the Stormfather. The more oaths they say, the closer they get to becoming the Vessel of Honor and attaining the full power of the Dawnshard of Unity. This is probably how Melishi was able to bind the Singers into slaveform. This is probably also how Dalinar is able to Unite the realms. It also occurs to me that this might be a good explanation for why the Recreance happened. Honor was dying and as he was dying he gave his Dawnshard to the Bondsmiths. Since the Dawnshard was presumably what destroyed Ashyn people might have been worried about misusing that power. It would be like the President showing up to your house one day at random, mortally wounded, screamed something about the end of the world and gave you the nuclear launch codes before dying on your couch. Anybody would be freaked out, let alone the descendants of the people who once blew up a planet. They then immediately have their fears validated when Melishi, the new Dawnshard of Unity, uses his newfound power to lobotomize an entire sapient species. Yeah, I can see why they were concerned. Future of the Dawnshards It is my current opinion that at some point in a future book, Dalinar will say his fifth oath and bond fully to the Stormfather. This will cause him to ascend to become the Vessel of Honor and also grant him full access to the Unity Dawnshard. This time however the fight against Odium will go differently because Odium won't be facing kind old Tanavast. He'll be facing the Blackthorn. At that point Dalinar either keeps the Dawnshard or gives it up, either one seems plausible. The Change Dawnshard stays with Rysn for now but that could change in the future depending on how things play out. The Survive Dawnshard is probably being held by Kelsier currently, both because Kelsier is probably the most realmatically aware Scadrian, and thus probably knows all about Dawnshards and realizes that one is on Scadrial, but also because it fits thematically. Kelsier The Survivor, who fought gods and won, gets a god slaying weapon called Survive? It's freaking perfect. I honestly don't know what happens to the Distinguish Dawnshard. It honestly comes down to how the fight with Odium actually plays out. I doubt it can ever be truly destroyed but it might get lost somehow or simply gifted to someone responsible. Some Extra Reasoning Tidbits - I used Survive as one of the Dawnshards because Kelsier mentions hearing a voice tell him to Survive within the Pits and because it fits as a nice clean opposing force to Change. We also know a powerful weapon is hidden on Scadrial. - I used Unite because Dalinar's "I am Unity" moment as well as several mentions of Unity in Elantris in regards to Devotion and Dominions religions. There's also mentions of a Dawnshard that binds things, which I believe is Unite. - Distinguish (still feel like that's not a perfect word) is in there because I needed something to oppose Unity that fit for the remaining three Shards. Individuality seems to fit in my opinion. - As for why Honor mentioned that they won't have access to the Dawnshards, I have no idea. There's already one confirmed to be on the planet and if my theory is right there's another two. Maybe he's saying they can't use them because of the oaths? That seems to be the original purpose of Radiant oaths, to keep the people who could potentially misuse a Dawnshard in check. - I believe the one Dawnshard that is different from the other, as mentioned in a WoB, is the Survive Dawnshard as it's on Scadrial and the other three are on Roshar. - The Shard of Adonalsium that is loosely associated with wisdom and "just want's to survive" is probably in the Survive quadrant. - It seems to me from the line in the novella about Rysn not being able to use the power and the restriction in their contract about becoming a surgebinder suggests that the Dawnshard requires some sort of magic already present in the wielder in order to make it work. This suggests to me that the Dawnshard is less of a powerful spell and more of an amplifier of other magics, making them far more powerful and versatile. This is probably due to the problem that Nikli mentions about needing the breadth of understanding equivalent to a deity. A Dawnshard in a Soother's hands might let them manipulate the minds of everyone on a whole planet because the Soother's powers are being used as a framework in place of that required understanding. A Soother with Dawnshard could probably not manipulate the laws of physics to the same extent as he could manipulate emotions. Maybe a little, but not to the same apocalyptic degree that a Shardic Vessel could. - We know that Hoid derives his immortality from the weapon that killed Adonalsium and we know that he's been cursed to never harm another living thing. I believe that both of those come from the Survive Dawnshard. He survives through anything, including death, because of the residual influence of the Dawnshard. He also can't kill or maim because that's antithetical to the concept of survival. What are your guy's thoughts on all of this? Let's discuss.
  11. Question. I was reading the coppermind, and read that Odium fears Harmony. While I understand why that would be the case, what I don't get is how he knows about harmony, since they are in different systems. Also timelines I guess? Idk if the current SA timeline corresponds with Mistborn Era 2.
  12. How many shards do you think it would take to kill Odium? He’s splintered so many shards (or been involved in splintering so many) that I’m wondering if he has bits of power from them? Would Harmony be able to defeat him? Autonomy perhaps? I know he is weakened to an extent because he’s stuck on Braise, but has he become, like, a super shard?
  13. I think that Odium is a dawnshard. We have these WoBs: Valhalla Ruin and Odium, they both talked about their passion, and it was italicized both times. Would any other Shards talk about passion in that same italicized way? Brandon Sanderson Yes they would. Valhalla Would any of them not talk about it that way? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Excellent, good questions. Idaho Falls signing (July 21, 2018) Billy Todd, Moderator So, does he genuinely believe in characterizing himself as Passion? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Part of him does. Billy Todd, Moderator Has he always ever been Odium since the Shattering? Brandon Sanderson Yes. JordanCon 2018 (April 21, 2018) I think that this is because passion or be passionate is one of the Commands for the Dawnshards, so part of him is that, Passion. Brandon also said: MoriWillow You once told us that one of the Dawnshards was different from the others. As of the events of this novella, is that still true? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Dawnshard Annotations Reddit Q&A (Nov. 9, 2020) I think that the one Dawnshard that is different is the one that Odium is. I think he's both a Shard and a Dawnshard. We know that Odium has more power than he should, and that he's referred to himself as Passion. We also know that Odium has a record of winning what would seem to be even fights, relatively unscathed. We know he has had help as well, but Brandon also said that he's capable enough on his own that, given the current situation, he could conceivably overcome Sazed (who has approximately twice the raw power). Relevant WOBs: Khyrindor Odium seems to have a bad track record when it comes to killing Shards. He was wounded versus Ambition, and he's trapped on Roshar. Yet, he's credited in killing Devotion and Dominion. My question is: was Autonomy significantly involved and would Odium have been able to do it on his own and still be okay to-- Brandon Sanderson RAFO. It is dangerous to attack a Shard with one Shard. Let's say that. And a wise Shard would try to avoid that confrontation unless there are specific reasons they think they would have an advantage. Skyward Seattle signing (Nov. 10, 2018) Questioner Does Odium actually present a real threat to Harmony, because he-- *interrupted* Brandon Sanderson So Harmony is vastly more powerful than Odium. Questioner Yeah. Brandon Sanderson Elend was vastly more powerful than Vin. Who would win in a fight? Questioner Vin. Brandon Sanderson Okay, there's your answer. White Sand vol.1 release party (June 28, 2016) A few last big pieces of evidence: The foreshadowing: The Broken One reigns. I think the Broken One is Odium's Dawnshard, that is functioning differently. The fact that Dalinar felt a warm golden in light in (OB I Think?) and expects it to be the God Beyond before turning around to see Odium. This could be reminiscent of the "warm golden light" that Rysn also felt when she saw the Dawnshard in the cave. We know Honor was ranting about the Dawnshards, emphasis s. He talked about how they had been corrupted or something of the like (someone please link the relevant quote I don't have my books right now because I'm moving). Odium having, and corrupting, a Dawnshard certainly seems like the type of thing to fit into this categorization of Honor's. We know that Hoid has personal beef with Odium, considering that there are a max of four Dawnshards at a time, it seems like the kind of thing where knowledgeable Dawnshards would be aware of each other, and also seems like the kind of thing that could exacerbate personal beef. We know that we've seen a Dawnshard, somewhat, before Dawnshard. Punzi (paraphrased) Have we seen a Dawnshard in any Cosmere book? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes and no. *hands RAFO card* DragonCon 2019 (Aug. 30, 2019) Questioner The Dawnshards. Have we seen any evidence of them on Roshar yet? Brandon Sanderson Technically, yes. Questioner Is there a the relationship between them and say, like, the perfect gems like the King's Drop? Brandon Sanderson I'll RAFO that. Good question. FanX 2018 (Sept. 8, 2018) I think these are because Odium is a dawnshard, or a corrupted version of one, and we haven't seen him use his Dawnshard yet either. But that's my theory, I'd love to hear other's thoughts on my theory, things you think prove my theory right or wrong or things I might've missed!:)
  14. This is probably a repeat question, but I'd like to start a thread on this...How is Odium so powerful? My understanding was, that when Adol(...) was shattered, each of the Splintered pieces of (him) were equally distributed? How is it that Odium has managed to Shatter so many other Shards? And one other thing...All the other Shards are...ideas? (Honor, Cultivation, Ruin, Preservation, etc). What is Odium? What does that even mean?
  15. You know about how Odium shattered Devotion, Ambition, Dominion and Honor and how he didn't want to absorb them. Say though, if Rayse was like Sazed, and did get two shards, what would the mix name be? (Ruin and Preservation = Harmony)
  16. Vyre used the knife to kill Jezrien and Jezrien flipped out. But he wasn't even a human he was more like a spren. So was the material of the blade Odiumite? I mean Harmony, Trell, Ati, and Leras all had God metals. Why not Odium? And if so is Honors metal the metal that shardblades and the oathgate are made out of. And do we know anything about Cultivation's metal? These are questions that have been running through my mind lately.
  17. A few coppermind quotes for context- "He is responsible for the deaths of at least four Shards -- Devotion, Dominion, Ambition and Honor." "Many of his splinters, the Unmade, represent giving into the sensations with nothing to rein them in" I was wondering- how exactly would Odium change if he absorbed some of the shards? Like devotion, or ambition? Besides becoming more powerful, he would be affected by the new shards, but couldn't he manipulate them? Devotion to his cause, ambition to succeed? Or does he just want to stay as pure hatred?
  18. This came about from RoW spoiler board discussion, but has no spoilers and I want more people to see it . My theory is Odium is bound by an agreement he made with Honor & Cultivation and the agreement was "You have to stay on Braize as long as one of us is alive and in the system". Or something to that effect. He killed Honor, that wasn't enough. He almost got Dalinar to release him by agreement, which supports the idea that he was bound by an agreement in the first place. He has to either kill Cultivation or drive her off. Maybe that is why he influenced humans to play "the floor is lava" on Ashyn and Tanavast shows Odium trashing the surface of Roshar "This is what I fear will happen. It's what he wants." (WoK Ch. 75) Odium's struggling to kill Cultivation directly so: he's turned the Singers against her, he's killed her husband souring her feelings on humanity, destroyed Ashyn's surface and will destroy Roshar's giving her nothing to grow. I know Cultivation is about more than trees, but come on she stormin' loves plants and great varieties of lifeforms. Odium's on Braize, if she goes there she's dead because she won't win a straight up fight, the other ten planets are gas giants. She's still a Shard driven by her Intent. With nothing to grow or cultivate the Shard Intent would win out over the Vessel and cause her to seek out planets capable of sustaining life. Her only alternative would be to expend a bunch of effort to make a planet in the system habitable again and that would give Odium a chance to kill her. Why Did He Agree To This? Odium didn't like his odds 1 on 2 against a married couple in a direct confrontation, he has "been hurt before" OB Ch. 16. He agreed to this and thought he could win quickly anyways and he was wrong. Escalation Through Desperation The Desolations may be designed to get one side or the other to be so desperate they do something really dangerous with the surges. Like what was done to Ashyn and what was done to Stormseat to make it the Shattered Plains. Honor and Cultivation had forbidden the Singers from surgebinding as of the time of the Ashyn Exodus. They came from another world, using powers that we have been forbidden to touch. Dangerous powers, of spren and Surges. (OB Ch. 111 Eila Stele) Then Odium nudges the humans to expand on Roshar, then creates the Fused from the victims of the human expansion. Humans are desperate a group of them go to Honor with a plan and he aids them by giving them Honorblades that allow them to use Surges. Seems like Honor caved because he was desperate and gave surgebinding fueled directly by his own power to a select few which the spren then imitated. The Desolations have one true purpose to get someone desperate or vengeful enough they accidently or on purpose unleash surgebinding so powerful it wipes out most life on the planet. A Roshar self-destruct sequence which probably involves Dawnshards. *everyone boos* I know, I know .
  19. I had this idea recently: what if Odium wants to recruit Kaladin as his champion and (possibly) start creating human versions of the Fused? It might actually make sense for all the involved parties: Odium: he needs a champion, obviously. Corrupting Kaladin would be an absolutely huge blow to Team Radiant and their morale (and also a kind of symbolic victory for Odium after losing Sja-anat in a similar way). Kaladin makes a perfect target, actually: he's severely depressed, sympathetic to the Singers and he had broken his Oaths once. He wants to get rid of his pain and cannot stand the idea that he'll eventually lose the people he loves – and Odium can, in an extremely twisted way, take your suffering and give you everlasting life. The rules of the game have changed: the Everstorm has arrived, the Heralds can be killed. Why not start creating human Cognitive Shadows if that could provide an advantage for Odium's forces? Leshwi: she's clearly interested in Kaladin and shows him that even the Fused can be honorable. She's playing the good cop here Moash: he shows up out of the blue at a very convenient location, with just the right arguments to crush Kaladin's spirit, based on a knowledge he might or might not have gained from his time in Bridge Four. His attitude directly contradicts that of Leshwi, which hardly makes sense given that she's his patron amongst the Fused – unless he's playing the bad cop, trying to manipulate Kaladin into siding with Odium in the end Kaladin: he simply cares too much and cannot let go. Confronting Odium, which represents the direct opposite of this, might be just the thing that leads him to saying the Fourth Ideal in some truly epic way
  20. Okay, this might be a dumb question, but I have been looking for an answer and haven't found one yet, so I'll ask it here. Why doesn't Odium just destroy Braize? In the Coppermind, it mentions destroying Braize as an option, so why not do it? From what I understand, Odium is more confined than limited/weakened on the planet, so why not just destroy it and leave? Ruin seems to be pretty capable of destorying a planet, so it' doesn't seem like it would take too much of his power, and if it did, he could just recuprate before going after his next Shard. Am I missing something here?
  21. I thought I had taught myself better. I honestly believed that I was done writing dumb wishful fantasies about my favorite characters. Harry Potter killing Voldemort in the most gruesome way my seven-year-old mind could concoct? Those days are behind me. An extended backstory for Breath of the Wild? Begone, thought. One would think that by now I would know better than to write something about the Knights Radiant, Mistborns, Wax n' Wayne duo, ReForgers, Elantrians, and the like teaming up on Odium to defeat him. One would think. And yet, here I am, unable to help myself. So this is probably going to take several posts to make, but that's fine. I've convinced myself that posting irregularly would help ease my conscience. If y'all think this is all just really childish and stupid, then that's fine by me. Heck, I think this is all just really childish and stupid. But I'm doing it anyway. Here it is: “So let me get this straight.” Waxillium said. “This is the Well of Ascension?” It was a little underwhelming. “Well,” he could understand. What he was looking at was probably the most well-like thing he had seen for awhile. “Ascension?” Not so much. “I can understand your confusion.” The man who called himself the Survivor said. Less a man, that was, and more a spirit. He certainly did match the descriptions given in Lestibournes’s texts, however. “Ruin’s power was moved from here, and therefore seems a little lackluster. However, it still works as a Perpendicularity to the Cognitive realm; for up to two people, I believe.” Wayne nudged Wax in the shoulder. “What’s your imaginary friend saying?” Wax turned to the Survivor. “I’m afraid my friend has no direct means of contacting you. What should I tell him…?” “Tell him that you two must take this to the cognitive realm, head to Roshar, and defeat Odium.” Waxillium frowned. “That seems very… specific.” “It is a specific battle that you are fighting now, Waxillium Ladrian.” The Survivor said. “I’m afraid that if Odium retrieves any more Shards that he may become unstoppable.” “I still don’t understand what’s happening.” Wax replied. “There is only so much I can describe.” The Survivor said. “Just head to Roshar. It might already be too late.” Waxillium nodded. “Alright, then.” “Um, excuse me?” Wayne nudged Wax again. “You can’t just make decisions for me, Wax.” “I thought you said you didn’t like making decisions.” “Well, I don’t, but you can’t make my decisions without my knowing about what you’re even deciding me to do!” Wayne pled. “Besides, I need to know what hat to take. Lucky hat or fedora?” “Lucky hat, most definitely.” The Survivor said. Wax frowned. “What…?” “Hats are very helpful. Especially lucky ones.” Wax turned to Wayne. “Well, according the the rusting Survivor himself, you should take your lucky hat.” “Lucky hat it is!” Wayne plopped on the headwear. “When’re we going?” Suddenly, from the caves that Waxillium had entered to get here, a man barreled towards them. “I found it! I found it, I found it, I found it!” “What the—” Wax stuttered. The man shoved Waxillium out of the way as he ran. “Move, fools! Allomancer Jak has come to claim his Birthright!” “Excuse me?” The man shoved Wayne out of the way, as well, who immediately scowled and grabbed for him, stumbling towards the Well as he missed. The man leaped into the Well, thrusting his arms upwards like some kind of priest. The Survivor scowled. “Get that man out of there before the Perpendicularity—” The Well burst alight, and the man fell over into the gaseous pool. Wayne was not over his mistreatment just yet, however, and leapt into the pool of light after him. “Wayne, wait!” Wax yelled, but was too late. The light of the pool began to fade, and with it the hopes of a successful mission. Wax found himself staring into the Well, empty despite the two personages that had been inside it just moments before. “What in the name of the Lord Ruler just happened?” The Survivor demanded. Wax shuddered on the ledge of the Well. “I think… I think that you might be stuck with the wrong allomancer for awhile.” His best friend, Wayne, had just sealed the fate of the Cosmere, by taking Allomancer Jak with him to defeat a god.
  22. If this has been suggested elsewhere, I'd love for someone to direct me to the post. In reading this short scene about Lift in RoW, I came across this quote from her - the wish she gave Cultivation: “I said when everything else is going wrong, I want to be the same. I want to stay me, not become someone else.” I've been wondering if one of Odium's goals is to somehow end or stop Highstorms, so that it becomes much harder (or impossible outside of Dalinar's abilities) to get investiture on Roshar. If that happens, "everything will be going wrong" and yet Lift won't change; she will still be able to use investiture. What do you all think? Any other clues that support or discredit this idea?
  23. So, I just finished my oathbringer re-read and have come up with a theory about the heralds. oathbringer spoilers my theory is that the oathpact bound together the souls of the heralds, part of the reason is probably so that they could share the pain of torture, but also it is possible that this was also done to cement them together to the oathpact. Oathbringer spoilers. The second part of my theory is that Odium will use this to make/ replace the heralds, meaning that in order to stop the fused from returning after death, odium's new heralds would need to be dispatched. thoughts? Any Wob that make or break this theory, or any things that you can point out?
  24. This isn't as much of a theory as it is a notable connection, but here it goes: I always wondered why the Mists in Scadrial never went into people's homes at night, seemingly disappearing at a house's thresholds. But then, I noticed something interesting: At the end of Oathbringer, when the Everstorm passes over Urithiru, Odium speaks to Taravangian, telling him to "open the window" several times before being able to speak with him "in person" as he does with Venli. Why would a Shard, even one trapped in Braize, need someone as insignificant as Taravangian to open a window? That seems almost fey-like from what is basically a god, and it got me thinking: could this be linked to the Mists back in Scadrial? What do y'all think?
  25. Had a thought on Odium today, hadn't noticed this anywhere else on the forums so I thought about making a thread. So I was looking at the definition of Odium. Here is Merriam-Webster's...well one of the definitions. "the state or fact of being subjected to hatred and contempt as a result of a despicable act or blameworthy circumstance" It's the "result of a despicable act or blameworthy circumstance" part that got me thinking All we have on Rayse before he was a Shard is from Hoid's perspective which is in all likelihood biased as you could also describe characters like Breeze for example as loathsome and crafty. I'm not saying by any means that Rayse was good by any means but he may very well have not been evil. After he became a Shard he may have been twisted by the Intent of his Shard like Ruin was. We don't know enough about Ambition to make a clear statement but Endowment considered her a problem and I think that was what drove Odium to start killing shards. It's entirely possible that Ambition did something that Odium felt she deserved to be punished and destroyed for. As for Devotion and Dominion, they broke the agreement between the Shards and settled together on a planet. He could have viewed that as unacceptable and his Intent inflamed that to punish and destroy them as well. As for Honor and Cultivation, there is still much too much backstory we lack which could completely discount everything I've brought up but he ultimately did not Splinter Honor until after him and Cultivation were living on the same world. His hatred towards other characters seems to be focused at sleights such as humanity and the Parshendi turning away from him. I've said before that I'm of the opinion that the names of the Shard is by no means a full understanding of the Intent of the Shard but just an interpretation of the Intent. So I was thinking that perhaps Odium's Shard could also be interpreted as Judgement or something similar but Rayse interpreted in a terrible way twisting him into what he is now. This is circumstantial at best but I found the thought interesting and I was curious what you all might think.