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Found 332 results

  1. I'm curious to know Odium is able to sense Moash's thoughts and take away his pain, basically influencing him. I thought shards are only able to hear thoughts and influence their subjects only by hemalurgy, something we saw in the mistborn books. Also, Odium is wounded from the battles with Ambition, Honor, Dominion, and Devotion, and he's confined to Braize, so I'm not sure how he affects and influences his followers so strongly. It seems unlikely that Odium is aware of Hemalurgy, so is it just about being willing to give in to his rule, such as what he tried to do with Dalinar, or singers with voidspren in their gemhearts?
  2. That thread title makes this sound more confident than I actually am, so sorry for the clickbait. My prediction is based on the following: 1) the fact that we’re dealing with T and not Rayse anymore. Rayse would try to win the “conventional” way, because winning the sneaky underhanded way wouldn’t “prove a point” as Wit said. But T is not so limited; he would see that the best way to beat Dalinar isn’t to find a better fighter than Dalinar, but to use Dalinar against himself. And what better way to do that than to force Dalinar to either lose, or kill the person in the world he feels the most responsible for? And a child no less. This much I am confident about: T is not going to use a conventional champion; he’s going to try to turn Dalinar against himself. 2) the deathrattles: And We still don’t know what these refer to, in contrast with a whole bunch of other deathrattles. I think that the first one has to refer to some pivotal/climactic moment of this arc given the way it’s written. And the second one hints what I strongly suspect for narrative reasons: TOdium wins, Dalinar loses, and we set the stage of books 6-10 investigating the nature of oaths and how to safely free Dalinar from the consequences here. What ties them together in my opinion is this choice: to kill the “suckling child” or to choose life. “The night will reign” in my reading refers to reigning across the Cosmere, rather than on Roshar specifically. 3) well I kind of specified this already: narratively it just makes sense. We know that books 6-10 focus on the Heralds, and in my reading Dalinar becomes a Cognitive Shadow just like them. The Heralds want to get out of their oathbound existence, as would Dalinar. And it just fits well for us to have a temporary resolution at the end of books 1-5 without a full resolution that would make books 6-10 disconnected. Reasons for skepticism: a) I mean, I hope I’m wrong. It would be extremely depressing for Dalinar to be consigned to this fate, even for just 10 years. And to wait something on the order of that long in real life until Brandon even begins showing us how he’ll be rescued in books 6-10 is gonna be brutal. trying to use the deathrattles to support a prediction is extremely dicey, especially when there’s a whole book 5 worth of material that we still don’t know about. c) How would Gavinor be a “willing” champion? Dalinar in RoW ch. 112: To answer this specific point, Gavinor seems like a pretty traumatized kid. It’s plausible to me that if offered the “gift of silence”, like Moash got, that he would take it. Is this a stretch? Very much so. But that’s better than the prediction that, say, Adolin would be willing to be TOdium’s champion, which is just ridiculous. Anyway I’m putting this out there both to be able to claim credit on the off chance that I’m right, and to pressure-test the prediction, so fire away!
  3. This is a place to discuss any and all theories about who Odium’s champion for the contest of champions with Dalinar will be. To get you started, here are my thoughts on the topic. (This might run a little long, so I’ll put it in a spoiler box):
  4. Welcome to the pantheon!
  5. Ok, I have no proof of this hypothesis. But seeing the fact that Axindweth is from Terris (Scadrial), and she is the one who brings the voidspren to Roshar from Braize, it makes me think that she is a member of the Set, or that she is someone important in Trell's plans. We know that Odium and Autonomy have a "pact", being possible allies, so it would not be strange that Trell is an avatar of Autonomy, who feels admiration for Odium (like Patji in Oathbringer's letter) and seeks the return of the Desolations to favor Odium. It is not a well-crafted hypothesis, but it is what I think it might be. And furthermore, I also think that the Set itself is a reaction to the Ghostbloods, being rival organizations, like the Ghostbloods and Sons of Honor. What do you think?
  6. So ever since I read RoW I saw a potential loophole that Odium could exploit if he won the contest of champions. So the stakes of Dalinar losing are basically that Dalinar must serve Odium (either as a cognitive shadow fused, or alive) and that Odium still cannot leave the system regardless of the outcome. Anything else is less relevant to this theory. So the idea I had was that if Odium is able to win the challenge without killing Dalinar, then Dalinar should still be bonded to the Stormfather. At this point, what stops Odium from ordering Dalinar to speak for Honor's power and release Odium from the system? It was seen in previous books that Dalinar has this ability, when talking to Odium in the visions he almost accidentally did it as an example. The problems with this theory would mainly come from how the Stormfather's bond is affected by Dalinar aligning with Odium and if the bond breaks before the contest somehow (such as Ishar stealing it). I don't think losing the fight would directly break the bond between the Stormfather and Dalinar since he is still upholding an oath/deal he made with Odium. Anyways I'd love if anyone could pick holes in this idea as this was just my gut reaction/thought to Dalinar wording the deal the way he did. I haven't seen this idea talked about anywhere else, but I have only recently gotten into 17th shard stuff. This is my first post here, so sorry if I messed something up with rules about spoilers, I tried to word everything in a way to have minimal spoilers, just in case.
  7. So we're ten days in the universe away from the big headliner event, with Odium/Dalinar. I'm really interested in hearing what everyone thinks the outcome will be because whatever it will be will set the stage for the back half. No matter what Odium is re-bound, but we still have 5 more books of Roshar plot left. The way I see it there are three options. 1) Dalinar wins. Odium goes back to Braize and the coalition regains Alethkar/Herdaz. In this universe, I see the main conflict of the back half being the question of what will happen to the Singers and what the role of the Knights Radiant is now that the Odium is re-bound. Sanderson could use this to highlight that not all problems are caused by the literal personification of hatred sitting on the system and force the Singers and the Humans to confront the atrocities they've wrought in the past. 2) Odium wins. Fused forces keep their control over most of Roshar and Odium gains Dalinar's soul. This is a much darker world for our protagonists but I think it sets up a more focused back half. It becomes much more crucial that they come to terms the fused and to find a way to find some sort of compromise for everyone who lives on Roshar. I think it could try really neatly into what we've seen with the growth and recovery with some other Heralds and Unmade and the 'sympatheic' fused like Leshwi/Rabonial. 3) Chaos reigns. Someone (Cultivation, Hoid, Kelsier, the Stick, etc.) figures out how to break the contest and a totally unexpected result happens. This is the most unpredictable and unlikely ending but there is some basis for it. Both Odium and the Heralds figure out multiple 'loopholes' in the Oathpact, so even bondsmith/Honor deals aren't infallible. What's everyone else guess/thoughts/ideas?
  8. After watching the last few Shardcasts, I decided to play with @Argent's idea that Voidbinding might be about accessing the power of Odium directly, not about accessing Surges. It actually led to some interesting conclusions, which I'll try to present below Voidbinding doesn't use Surges The basic premise, obviously. There are some reasonable arguments that support this idea: The Knight Radiant, the Fused and fabrials all use Surges. Surges were also what destroyed Ashyn. Despite their ubiquity, we have not a single description of Voidbinding that mentions them explicitly. We only know about the ten levels and the existence of “Voidbindings”, whatever they are. Khriss is also unsure how they fit into the whole Orders/Surges/Essences paradigm Voidbinding is a cousin of Old Magic, which isn't Surge-based Renarin's futuresight isn't necessarily a Surge. He does have access to a separate, distinct version of Illumination, while his visions match what Tanavast says about his own futuresight (also, Renarin seems to see things that are of interest to Odium, not random visions). It seems possible that Renarin is accessing the Shardic power directly, rather then filtered through Surges In this WoB, Brandon describes futuresight as “dangerous territory, and drawing upon a Shard” The futuresight is described as “the soul of Voidbinding”. It's the only Voidbinding power that is widely known. It stands to reason that it might not be available to a single Voidish “Order”, but to all Voidbinders, possibly forming the first level of the magic system Additionally, per Taravangian's word, all Unmade have some sort of access to futuresight, despite having other distinct powers and roughly matching the KR Orders. Given that, futuresight doesn't seem to be tied to any single Surge Comparison with the Metallic Arts Comparing Rosharan and Scadrian magic leads to some interesting analogies that might elucidate the nature of Voidbinding: Surgebinding corresponds to Allomancy/Feruchemy, with 10 Surges / Orders / KR Spren types fulfilling the same roles as 16 metals Fabrials correspond to ettmetal-based magitek Old Magic corresponds to lerasium, as both can be used by anyone to change their spiritweb Voidbinding, finally, has the same role as atium There are two important thing about atium that I believe are relevant here (besides the obvious fact of providing futuresight): Atium requires the power of another Shard to work. Without Allomancy, Feruchemy or some magical ability to steal via Hemalurgy, atium is useless Preservation tweaked Allomancy, so that atium could be used against Ruin I'm not sure if Voidbinding can exist as a fully standalone magic system; it might require some other power (typically Surgebinding) to work. Based on this WoB: I think that what is called Voidbinding might actually stem from Surgebinding hacked (e.g. via spren corruption) to give people non-Surge powers, to Odium's detriment. It would also explain the name “Voidbinding”, which doesn't sound like something Odium's followers would use The Voidbinding chart If that is the case, the Voidbinding chart isn't a Voidbinding chart per se; it's more like a Surebinding + Voidbinding chart. My current theory is that it might have originated on Ashyn, and its history might have been more or less like this: People were experimenting with Surges provided by Odium and his Voidspren, creating a chart that is extremely similar to the one for Rosharan Surgebinding, but with different Surges / Orders (e.g. “Voidish” Illumination would be Renarin's balls of light) Two “Orders”, Bondsmiths and Truthwatchers, turn out to be special though: both have access to the Surges with the most Spiritual aspects they kind of match Dawnshards quite well: one on them can bind people and spren, which seems very Bondsmith-like, and the Change Dawnshard is a “will of a god to remake things, to demand they be better”, which fits nicely with Renarin showing people their perfected selves Sja-Anat has a weird affinity for Truthwatchers and BAM started exhibiting Bondsmith-like powers during the False Desolation; both happen to provide Voidbinding abilities, to Signers and humans respectively I believe Bondsmiths and/or Truthwatchers might have been the ones to figure out that you can use the magic to tap Odium's power directly, likely with the help of the Dawnshards – which is why they are surrounded by a red gem on the chart and not connected to any Surges. Odium wasn't very happy about it, so he pushed them towards the planet's destruction. Voidbinding was left unused and partially forgotten, until some Unmade started experimenting with it again during the False Desolation, possibly given some knowledge by Cultivation or a Herald starting to go mad. BAM sudden unexplained powers might actually be our only hint at the higher levels of Voidbinding
  9. In RoW, Venli mentions “Honor’s Moon” when referring to Nomon (the light blue moon). This got me thinking and I went onto Coppermind. Sure enough, we have a green moon (Mishim) and a violet moon (Salas). The same colours as the Lights. Is Mishim Cultivation’s Moon and Salas Odium’s Moon? It makes sense. Could each moon on Roshar be connected to a Shard?
  10. Nergaoul is red according to the coppermind While every other unmade that we have seen, either in the physical realm or the cognitive has been black. Ashertmarn - black - Re-Shephir - black - Sja-Anat - black - But Yelig-nar is different while all of his form is black in shadesmar, when he enters a host in the physical realm the eyes of the host turn red. Note: While we haven't seen Dia-Gonarthis, he is sometimes called the black fisher. But red investiture in the Cosmere is corupted investiture. But a lot of Odiums forces are red. I would like to thank for pointing this pattern among voidspren and Fused alike as well. Some of his spren are golden but the others are red, Ulim, stormspren, and Fused eyes. In Oathbringer there is even a quote where Pattern is translatting an Ashspren for the hero's and says, "There are many varieties, she says. Some of golden light, others are red shadows. Curious yes." In all all lot of Odium's own forces are red which means they are corrupted, then some spren are golden, and then finally most of his Unmade are black, but Odium's own investiture is golden and violet not black (as black is ruins color) so what is happening. And why are all but a few of his forces wrong.
  11. At the end of RoW, Taravangian ascends to Odium and inherits quite a few memories and information from Rayse. Well, I don't know if it's Brandon's favoritism towards TOdium, but I don't understand why Taravangian inherits so much information, but Kelsier, Vin and Sazed don't inherit any information from each other's pre-Preservation vessel (Kelsier from Leras, Vin from Kelsier and Sazed from Vin). And the same case of Sazed with Ati. Maybe Kelsier doesn't inherit any information from Leras because the latter was slowly dying, but Vin should have inherited Kelsier's short-time memories as Preservation as well as Taravangian from Odium, and Sazed should have inherited Vin's memories and Ati when ascending, but it was not like that and it gives me a feeling of unevenness between the shards, despite the fact that Odium is somewhat hurt by his battles in the Cosmere, but Preservation and Ruin are intact despite the deaths of their original vessels.
  12. In the deal with Dalinar there are a number of odd things going on with odium: 1) His skin could seemed to no longer contain his power. The gods eyes had gone completely golden as if they were chunks of metal in a statue's face why gold? why is he falling apart? why the comparison to a statue? 2) wit said he cant hurt you, not without breaking his word and inviting his own death. which happens later. 3) I am not going to break my word because if I did, it would create a hole in my soul which would let cultivation kill me. Which, arguably, is what happened 4) The use of the 10th hour of the 10th day - rosharin, non-odium numbers. This feels like Odium is under the influence of another, why not the 9th hour of the 9th day? It seems very much like Rayse broke an oath and was being influenced. What oath could he have broken?
  13. I've seen some threads on Nightblood, but not this specific question. My apologies if its there and I missed it though poor search or it being buried form months ago. Odium(Rayse) pulls T and night blood into their "realm" (for lack of better word). T stabs Rayse/Odium with Nightblood. Nightblood is engorged on the sheer volume and stops feasting and becomes sated/lethargic. We know that Nightblood corrupts Investiture to some other investiture, which would effectively make what was corrupted unavailable to Odium(shard). I believe Nightblood killed Rayse and sucked his investiture, but a person doesn't have enough to sate Nighblood, so I (think) Nightblood HAD to eat/chew/corrupt some of the actual shards investiture too. Does this now leave Odium (even a smidge) weaker than before and than all other non shattered shards (since they all started with an even 1/16th)? Could Nightblood have done enough damage (that the new Todium is unaware of because he's new and not aware of power lvl 9000 before the event compared to his now power lvl 8500) that he's measurable weaker than other shards? Possibly in a way that will lead to his downfall later?
  14. Now that Nightblood has consumed (what was left of) Rayse, do you think his personality will become more rayselike? Surely absorbing an entire Vessel will have a lasting effect on our favorite sword-nimi.
  15. Did Mercy kill Ambition instead of Odium? We know from past wobs that Odium primarily attacked Shards the broke the agreement between the Shards. As well as that he only would attack if he felt he could win and worried Ambition would try and rival him. In Arcanum Khriss also does not list Ambition in the list of shards that Odium "doubtlessly killed." It seems likely to me that Ambition initially attacked Mercy thinking them an easy target. With this opportunity Odium arrived to help attack Ambition as well and Mercy managed to also fight back. Ultimately Mercy was the one who killed Ambition which would explain why they aren't included in the list of those Odium killed beyond a doubt and why Harmony was worried about Mercy upon talking to them.
  16. The text of RoW makes it sound like Rayse, the Vessel of Odium, was materially damaged by his plans not working out. Like Dalinar and Kaladin not becoming his champion actually hurt him in a way that made his death more likely. That's weird. The Shard vs. Shard battles did most of the damage and then being trapped for 7,000+ years probably didn't help. Rayse never embraced all aspects of the Shard. He prefers to be called passion and only says "they call me Odium". Compare that to Wit asking Mr. T who he is and he simply says "Odium". The Shard got frustrated, developing a mind of it's own. It's not been controlled well by Rayse, as Harmony theorized in an epigraph. Right after Dalinar turns him down in OB Rayse rants about "we killed you". I take the "we" to mean the Vessel and the Power since they aren't on the same page all the time and literally are two different minds. It gets way worse real quick only a year after Dalinar rejects him we see the Power trying to escape Rayse's body throughout RoW. I guess that was the last straw and the power is like "get me away from this loser". More generally, it's weird that a Vessel can take damage from "things not working out how you hoped". Which seems heavily implied by the quote. Is that what killed Tanavast? He thought the Heralds and the Oathpact would last forever and then the Heralds let the Fused out over and over until 9 of them quit altogether. Is that the damage he took that led to his death, people disappointing him? The coroner's report would say: "fatal case of being wrong" He was already dying when the Radiants quit according to the Stormfather in OB Ch. 38, did the Recreance finish him off? Or did all this weaken him allowing Odium to finish him off and splinter him? I can't decide if I like this idea or not. "My favorite football team missed the playoffs, ow!" *-10HP*
  17. Adhesion is "the truest surge of Honor". Progression seems to be the equivalent for Cultivation, judging from Lift's experience. Is there a surge that is particularly close to Odium and why is it Division? *side-eyes the Skybreakers and Dustbringers* *side-eyes the name "Division* *side-eyes the most likely candidate for the Surge of Honey I Blew Up The Planet* Yeah, it's Division, isn't it?
  18. This theory has been bouncing around in my head for a few weeks now, mostly revolving around Nikli's insistence that Rysn never become a Radiant and Honor's belief that the Dawnshards are lost to the Knights Radiant. Quotes from Honor: Assuming that the Dawnshard is mostly nonfunctional in a non-invested host, we have to wonder why the Sleepless didn't want Rysn to access that power and why Honor thought that the power of the Dawnshard was impossible for the Radiants to reach or more dangerous than Odium winning. There are lots of reasons I can think of that the Sleepless wouldn't want Rysn to gain power of the Dawnshard-- their mission goes beyond one planet and I could see Rysn's lack of power an acceptable loss. Honor is a little bit harder. I've seen people interpret the quote from Oathbringer as simply not trusting the Knights Radiant, but that doesn't make much sense to me. Why would he support them for years and then in his death throes suddenly flip and decide that the danger of them getting a Dawnshard was greater than the danger of Odium winning? The other quote complicates that further since he isn't talking about the danger of Dawnshards, but suggesting that the Dawnshards are beyond their reach. From the information we have, I can see two options: Either Honor's knowledge about the Dawnshards and the KR changed, or something about the Dawnshards themselves changed. If Honor didn't know where the Dawnshard was and thought it was no longer on-world, it could make sense that he believes the Dawnshards are lost to them, but it wouldn't explain why he was convinced that the KR would destroy Roshar with one. Since he already knew that the Dawnshard destroyed Adonalsium and Ashyn, it's hard to believe that there was some bit of knowledge about the Dawnshard's capabilities that would suddenly bump them up to "too dangerous." It is possible that something changed about the KR leading up to this, but there's no indication as to what. We know that they abandoned their Oaths believing it was the right thing to do, so it wasn't like they were corrupted or less honorable. In contrast, it is possible that something changed about the Dawnshard, and Odium's interference seems like the most likely reason. I find it less likely that he corrupted the Dawnshard itself, knowing how powerful it is, and more likely that he somehow set things up so that using the Dawnshard would trigger something Very Bad. [Rhythm of War Spoilers] This would explain Honor's sudden belief that the KR couldn't be trusted to use the Dawnshard without destroying Roshar and his statement that without the Dawnshards he had very few tools to help them. It would also give the Sleepless a further reason to not want Rysn or anyone else to have the power to wield the Dawnshard (although they might not even be aware of the trap). I don't think there's enough evidence to say that this is what happened, but a paucity of other explanations for Honor's behavior makes it seem like a strong possibilty. Any other thoughts on possible explanations? Any evidence I've forgotten that contradicts this?
  19. So the Dawnshard novella just recently came out and it had some seriously juicy lore tidbits for all of us to chew on. I'm going to be putting my interpretation of it here along with what I think is a probable timeline of events involving the Dawnshards. Nature of the Dawnshards So Adonalsium gave four primal Commands that spawned the Dawnshards and created the Cosmere. We know that one of them is Change and that together all four were used to Shatter God himself. I'm thinking these Commands are similar to the Christian notion of "Let there be light" while the resulting Dawnshards are a sort of imprint on the world left by the Commands. If God turning on the lights was a boot, the Dawnshard is a boot print. I believe these four Commands were Change, Survive, Unite and Distinguish. I don't know if these are the actual names of the Dawnshards (I would be surprised if Distinguish was 100% correct) but the gist of it remains the same. These four are two sets of two that, while not exactly opposite, are in some respects opposed. None are negative or positive, they simply are. Change and Survive are opposed as survival requires a certain amount of stasis. Unite and Distinguish are opposed as Distinguish implies individuality and unity implies a certain common ground. The Shattering of Adonalsium I believe that at one point they were all combined into a single weapon that was used to Shatter Adonalsium and that Hoid was the one who actually holding the thing when it all went down, as is referenced by Hoid being both "Topaz" as well as the "Bearer of the First Gem" as well as the WoB's that we have stating that the weapon used to kill Adonalsium is drained and inoperable and that Hoid's immortality is derived from it. It's drained because the Dawnshards were removed from it and Hoid's immortality comes from Survive. From Nikli's line in the novella we know that wielding a Dawnshard makes "Demands on a level that no person could ever manage alone..." Thus I believe that while Hoid was the one actually pulling the trigger, there was another group bracing and bolstering him, probably a group of 16, aka the Shardic Vessels. Think the ending scene from Guardians of the Galaxy. Starlord got his hands on the Infinity Stone but he couldn't use it until they all united their strength by using the secret move "Power of Friendship" :). I think that's what happened here only more premeditated God-murder and less dance off. Scattering of the Dawnshards My next bit of wild speculation is that I believe that when Adonalsium was Shattered, the Dawnshards contained in the weapon were scattered to four of the Vessels. Which Vessels got chosen probably had to deal with the specific theme of each Shard of Adonalsium. Cultivation and Ruin, for instance, both fit squarely in the Change quadrant. Here's how I think the Shards fall into the quadrants. Change - Ruin, Cultivation, Endowment Survive - Preservation Unite - Honor, Devotion, Dominion Distinguish - Odium, Autonomy, Ambition Ruin is Change through destruction. Cultivation is Change through improvement. Endowment is Change through transfer. Preservation is Survival through stasis. Honor is Unity through shared ethics. Devotion is Unity through love. Dominion is Unity through law and government. Distinguish is all about individuality (which is why I was having trouble with the word Distinguish. Individuality is not a verb!!!). This would mean the Odium is individuality through emotion, Autonomy is individuality through isolation and Ambition is individuality through accomplishment. I believe that Hoid either got the Survive Dawnshard or had it before the Shattering and the it somehow ended up with Preservation after everything was said and done. It is currently hidden on Scadrial somewhere. Honor got the Unity Dawnshard and took it with him to Roshar. I'm not sure who ended up with the Change Dawnshard but they must have given it up or had it taken from them somehow, probably the former, and it was then carried to Roshar and hidden in the cavern in Akinah. This leaves Distinguish, which I believe fell into Autonomy's hands. It's use might explain her weird avatar situation, granting herself an excess of individuality. She gave it to Odium to use in killing Devotion, Dominion and Ambition. This is how he wiped the floor with them without breaking a sweat, even in a two on one fight. This is also probably why Brandon was cagey about whether Bavadin helped Odium splinter D&D. She didn't really help commit the murder, she just handed the murderer a gun at some point. Dawnshard Battle on Roshar After Odium got done taking out D&D and Ambition, he set his sights on Honor and Cultivation. Big problem here though. Honor had a Dawnshard. I don't think he was actively using it though. It's my guess that there was some sort of agreement among the Vessels to not wield both a Shard and a Dawnshard at once. It would upset the balance of power too much. This is why Survive is being stored away on Scadrial, why Change was sort of floating around until it ended up in Aimia and why Honor was letting Ishar hang on to Unite, which he used to bind the surgebinders with oaths and create the Oathpact. But Odium broke the rules and so Honor took his Unite Dawnshard back to kick some butt. The problem for Honor was that Odium is just insanely more practiced and skilled in Shard on Shard combat at this point and was just more skilled with using a Dawnshard in general. Sure they both had guns but one has a seasoned fighter and the other was an amateur. Regardless Honor was enough of a threat with his Dawnshard that Odium had to take things slow and be cautious. This is also probably why Cultivation stayed out of this for the most part. She wasn't armed. Eventually Odium gets the upper hand and slips in a killing blow but Honor leaves his cognitive shadow, along with the Dawnshard that it's carrying, behind and has it fuse with the Stormfather. This now means that any Bondsmith that bonds to the Stormfather now has access to a Dawnshard as well as the Shard of Honor relative to how closely bonded they are with the Stormfather. The more oaths they say, the closer they get to becoming the Vessel of Honor and attaining the full power of the Dawnshard of Unity. This is probably how Melishi was able to bind the Singers into slaveform. This is probably also how Dalinar is able to Unite the realms. It also occurs to me that this might be a good explanation for why the Recreance happened. Honor was dying and as he was dying he gave his Dawnshard to the Bondsmiths. Since the Dawnshard was presumably what destroyed Ashyn people might have been worried about misusing that power. It would be like the President showing up to your house one day at random, mortally wounded, screamed something about the end of the world and gave you the nuclear launch codes before dying on your couch. Anybody would be freaked out, let alone the descendants of the people who once blew up a planet. They then immediately have their fears validated when Melishi, the new Dawnshard of Unity, uses his newfound power to lobotomize an entire sapient species. Yeah, I can see why they were concerned. Future of the Dawnshards It is my current opinion that at some point in a future book, Dalinar will say his fifth oath and bond fully to the Stormfather. This will cause him to ascend to become the Vessel of Honor and also grant him full access to the Unity Dawnshard. This time however the fight against Odium will go differently because Odium won't be facing kind old Tanavast. He'll be facing the Blackthorn. At that point Dalinar either keeps the Dawnshard or gives it up, either one seems plausible. The Change Dawnshard stays with Rysn for now but that could change in the future depending on how things play out. The Survive Dawnshard is probably being held by Kelsier currently, both because Kelsier is probably the most realmatically aware Scadrian, and thus probably knows all about Dawnshards and realizes that one is on Scadrial, but also because it fits thematically. Kelsier The Survivor, who fought gods and won, gets a god slaying weapon called Survive? It's freaking perfect. I honestly don't know what happens to the Distinguish Dawnshard. It honestly comes down to how the fight with Odium actually plays out. I doubt it can ever be truly destroyed but it might get lost somehow or simply gifted to someone responsible. Some Extra Reasoning Tidbits - I used Survive as one of the Dawnshards because Kelsier mentions hearing a voice tell him to Survive within the Pits and because it fits as a nice clean opposing force to Change. We also know a powerful weapon is hidden on Scadrial. - I used Unite because Dalinar's "I am Unity" moment as well as several mentions of Unity in Elantris in regards to Devotion and Dominions religions. There's also mentions of a Dawnshard that binds things, which I believe is Unite. - Distinguish (still feel like that's not a perfect word) is in there because I needed something to oppose Unity that fit for the remaining three Shards. Individuality seems to fit in my opinion. - As for why Honor mentioned that they won't have access to the Dawnshards, I have no idea. There's already one confirmed to be on the planet and if my theory is right there's another two. Maybe he's saying they can't use them because of the oaths? That seems to be the original purpose of Radiant oaths, to keep the people who could potentially misuse a Dawnshard in check. - I believe the one Dawnshard that is different from the other, as mentioned in a WoB, is the Survive Dawnshard as it's on Scadrial and the other three are on Roshar. - The Shard of Adonalsium that is loosely associated with wisdom and "just want's to survive" is probably in the Survive quadrant. - It seems to me from the line in the novella about Rysn not being able to use the power and the restriction in their contract about becoming a surgebinder suggests that the Dawnshard requires some sort of magic already present in the wielder in order to make it work. This suggests to me that the Dawnshard is less of a powerful spell and more of an amplifier of other magics, making them far more powerful and versatile. This is probably due to the problem that Nikli mentions about needing the breadth of understanding equivalent to a deity. A Dawnshard in a Soother's hands might let them manipulate the minds of everyone on a whole planet because the Soother's powers are being used as a framework in place of that required understanding. A Soother with Dawnshard could probably not manipulate the laws of physics to the same extent as he could manipulate emotions. Maybe a little, but not to the same apocalyptic degree that a Shardic Vessel could. - We know that Hoid derives his immortality from the weapon that killed Adonalsium and we know that he's been cursed to never harm another living thing. I believe that both of those come from the Survive Dawnshard. He survives through anything, including death, because of the residual influence of the Dawnshard. He also can't kill or maim because that's antithetical to the concept of survival. What are your guy's thoughts on all of this? Let's discuss.
  20. harmony

    Okay so considering the fact that Sazed picked up two shards at his Ascension, does that make him the most powerful being in the cosmere? Or would that title depend on which shards were combined? For example, the opposite nature of Ruin and Preservation make changes hard for Sazed. If someone, say Rayse, were to have shattered Preservation and picked up Ruin, would that be a more powerful combo? Regardless, would Sazed be able to contend with Rayse given he is Harmony (Ruin AND Preservation) and Rayse is only Odium?
  21. I assume Rayzium (the investiture conducting metal the fuzed use) is the god metal of Rayze (Odium). I also assume that given how spren both come from shards and manifest in the physical realm as metal, this metal is the god metal of the associated shard the spren came from. If this is the case, could a mistborn burn a shardblade? If so, what would that do to the spren?
  22. For three books we've seen Odium as the foreign element that needs to be taken care of. Either defeated, or destroyed, or maybe he'll win this one and be free to go gallivanting off across the Cosmere on a new murder spree. Even Odium himself (or at least Odium 1.0) just wanted to get off Braize and go. But RoW keeps emphasizing that Odium has been assimilated into Roshar. There are three pure tones. Timbre tells Venli that voidlight is no more intrinsically evil as a power source than stormlight. The titular Rhythm of War is created by harmonizing Odium's rhythm with Honor's. Over and over, we get shown that just as humans are now children of Roshar, Odium is a Rosharan god. I don't know what the Stormlight endgame is going to be, but I no longer think winning entails getting rid of Odium. I think it will end with, Odium, whether Taravangian or some other Vessel, finding some less apocalyptic expression of his power and being recognized as a valid Shard of Roshar.
  23. tl;dr version: In this post I will try to convince you that Voidbinding is a nascent magic system of both Odium(“void”) and Honor (“binding”), and present a theory on how it was created Voidbinding doesn't make sense as Odium's magic system The name: we now know from multiple sources that Adhesion, the Surge of binding things together, is the one closest to Honor. The Fused don't even recognize it as a Surge; they talk about Surges, but don't seem to use the word Surgebinding. They are called Voidbringers (I'm sorry, Singers ). Why would Odium's magic have 'binding' in its name? It's pointless: why would Odium grant anybody the power of futuresight if it interferes with his own and ultimately leads to his downfall? 10-centric: Voidbinding has ten levels. Yes, there are nine Unmade and they lack the Bondsith one, but that's just happenstance – we know from the Sibling that the tenth Unmade can be created. Why would Voidbinding be based on the number associated most closely with Honor? Why is the Voidbinding chart so similar to Surgebinding and so unlike the Fused abilities? Lore: the first mentions of mortals using Voidbinding abilities we know seem to be from around the time of the False Desolation: Listener songs mention the Nightform (and BAM as a source of Forms of Power) and we see potential information about corrupted Truthwatcher spren in Urithiru Gem Archive. Besides that we only have the general idea that futuresight is of Odium, but that could have come from the Unmade alone (per Taravangian's word, they all can grant it). There's rich lore about the Unmade, but none about Voidish Surges besides Illumination. The Fused are surprised that Voidspren can bond with humans and they don't see anything weird with the fact that there are no Nightforms around during the Final Desolation. Previously I believed that Voidbinding might have originated on Ashyn, but BAM's deep ties to Roshar seem to disprove that Unexplained phenomena: what's the source of BAM's massive Connection ability? Why did her imprisonment caused so much damage to Roshar if she was just Odium's splinter? Why did the Sibling stop hearing Honor's Rhythm? How could BAM and Sja-anat rebel against Odium's will? Why was Warlight never discovered before? Surgebinding vs fabrials Before we move further, one more thing needs to be discussed: why are there two magic systems of Honor and Cultivation? The Rhythm of War finally gave me some idea about the difference. The fabrials are like feruchemy – they are a perfect balance between the powers of two Shards, as indicated by the nature of the Sibling and the Towerlight. Surgebinding is also of both Shards, but it's biased towards Honor. It uses more of his Investiture: it's powered by Stormlight, Honorblades are Honor's splinters, the most powerful and mystical Order is based around uniting, not growth. What happened with the surplus of Cultivation's Investiture then? It's simple: it became the basis for the Old Magic, a magical “appendage” originating from a single Shard Ba-Ado-Mishram is the source of Voidbinding I believe that's what Odium wanted: a simple set of magical powerful abilities to be used by the Unmade to do his bidding. That's why the Voidbinding was called the cousin of the Old Magic. It was always meant to be used by the Unmade only, not become a full magic system. I believe, however, that at some point something extremely important happened – BAM was infused with Honor's Investiture and completely transformed. I'm not sure how or who did it; we have several plausible suspects: Ishar, Honor, Cultivation and (Dawnshard spoilers) Whoever that was, as a result of their action BAM became deeply Connected to Roshar and turned into something similar to the Sibling. She was suddenly able to produce Warlight and use it to control the Singers, just like the Sibling controls fabrials. She was able to grant Forms of Power from a completely new magic system: full, 10-centric Voidbinding, whose relation to the original Unmade abilities is just like the relation between the Old Magic and Surgebinding. Her abilities (and newfound autonomy) extended, to some extent, to other Unmade, especially Sja-anat, allowing her to corrupt True Spren. The one thing she couldn't do in the days before her imprisonment, however, was to create spren that would grant full Voidbinding – there wasn't simply enough Odium Investiture on the planet. Now, however, the situation has changed: the Everstorm circulates Roshar and clashes with the Highstorm, providing the exact conditions that she needs, once she's released (most likely in Book 5). This will lead to unleashing the full power of Voidbinding, which will become a major plot point (and a weapon against Odium) in Arc 2
  24. The books say that Odium was hurt in his past battles with shards. Does that mean Odium is now renewed/reborn since there is now a "new" one?
  25. After watching the livestream, one of the things that stuck out to me most was one of Brandon's comments on how Odium's position will change now that the power is in a new vessel. "Odium will have interesting, different relationships with a lot of different, interesting people in the next book." Obviously, we knew this was going to happen, but I thought it would be interesting to really start to dig into which people will be effected by the switch in vessels, and how their relationship and roles will change. The Fused The Fused are probably the biggest group that's going to experience the change. They get their powers directly from Odium, and as his greatest resources, they'll be the first ones Taravangian can use for his plans. I think Taravangian is going to clean house a bit, getting rid of any Fused that are no longer useful, similar to what El did with Leizan, since many have been alive for far too long, and "there's nothing sadder than a tool that has outlived it's purpose". The ones that remain would be like El, who are probably ones that would find the change in management revitalizing, and willing to serve this new Odium to rule the humans and end this war in a way that doesn't involve total destruction. The Dustbringers The Dustbringers in general have been built up as loyal to the Diagram, and their loyalty to the coalition has been tenuous at best. I think it would be a waste for that to just been thrown away now that the Diagram has disbanded, since nothing really came of it yet. The Dustbringers are still Radiants, and we don't know what their position within the coalition and new order of Knights Radiant is, but it's likely that they will have some sort of alligiance to the new Odium. That being said, I expect there to be some Dustbringers who don't ally with Odium, including Ral-na. Moash/Vyre Vyre is a pretty major case in this shift, and was the subject of the question asked in the livestream in the first place. His Connection to Odium is unique, and if he's Connected to the shard and not the vessel, it will likely be maintained. I don't think Taravangian will want to get rid of him, even without his eyesight he's a useful tool, and it's possible only humans can use the honorblade. How this affects Moash's character arc, we can only speculate. Probably the biggest change however, is how Moash responds to the new vessel, considering their goals are no longer in alignment. Moash wants vengeance on humans and their total extermination, Taravangian wants to "save everyone". He'll probably keep Moash in the dark long enough for Moash to remain a useful tool, but I wonder how Moash would react when it becomes clear that Odium now wants to rule the humans, not destroy them (if he survives that long, anyway). Another possibility, is that Taravangian's new influence on the Odium shard leaks over to Moash, providing him a direction for his passions aside from just mass extermination. The Unmade It's hard to say much here, since we don't know a lot about the different unmade. I think he'll have a much better relationship with Sja-Anat than Rayse did, however. The Iri This is the one I'm the most interested in, and the more I think about it the worse it gets. We know that the Iri have already allied themselves with Odium's forces, and will likely continue to be in service to Taravangian. We know that Taravangian wants to extend his influence past Roshar. We also know that the Iri are a population of humans that originate from beyond Roshar and Ashyn, and will eventually migrate to a new world. Altogether, this could have some scary implications, not just for the future of Stormlight, but the Cosmere as a whole.