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  1. Yesterday my friend and I were talking about people with multiple personality disorder and all the weird stuff that can come with it, and so I was thinking about it last night and I thought what would happen if Shallan or Veil or Radiant joined Odium and the other two didn't. They would be able to do so much harm, sabotage plans, a really really good spy, or you either get a radiant or basically incapacitate one because no one would be able to trust them, and they wouldn't really be able to trust themselves. I feel like Veil would be the most likely because of her interactions with the ghostbloods, plus her personality just seems to fit with Odium for some reason. So what do you guys think about it?
  2. Do shards have opposites, like preservation and ruin, or do some not. And if they do, are Odium and Honour opposites?
  3. Hey guys I was just thinking what if events turn such as kaladin becomes Odium's champion. He will not have to break any oath to do so as he will not be fighting anyone who cannot protect himself and also if fourth ideal is to leave those whom you cannot protect or to forgive yourself then what if he decides that there is no hope for human to survive and joins Odium's to protect parshendi and he will have to fight Seth in contest of champions, also Brandon have a thing for doing what is most unlikely so maybe. So, what do you guys think.
  4. In this post I am going to argue that the Ardents are Odium worshippers. Hear me out, it makes more sense than you would believe. It is obvious that Vornism started out as a genuine belief in Honor a few thousand years ago. But nowadays? What kind of ethics would a genuine belief in Honor entail? It would mean journey before destination: it is more important how you fight/live then what you fight/live for. It is not even important that you win in a fight (or in life). Everything that matters is the journey. Now, what the Vorin church teaches is the exact opposite of what a genuine belief in Honor would look like. They don`t even have any set of ethics, actually. It is only important that you do your job as a soldier/ farmer etc. well. It is only important that you win. Subsequently, Alethi culture is all about the game, the victory, the Thrill. This set of ethics is, well, of Odium. I would argue, therefore, that it does not matter that they pay lip service to the Heralds and that their faith started out as worshipping Honor. The Ardents of our time are Odium worshippers. The best example are the “Sons of Honor”. They claim to want to restore Honor. Yet, they only want to possess the power associated with a god and restore the power of the Vorin church. They don`t care about Honor. It is not surprising that the only known son of Honor, Amaram, ends up on Odium`s side. The Ardents will soon join their actual god and lord, almighty Odium, led by Restares, who is probably someone high up in the hierarchy of the church.
  5. I've been think about counterfactual shard combinations. How things might be if the story takes a different direction. Odium+Ambition seems like a really dangerous combination. They are not at cross purposes, so there is not the tendency towards inaction that Harmony experiences. Of all the known shards, it seems like this would be the one that would dilute Odium's intent the least. (So as an aside, maybe Rayse' disinclination to pick up other shards isn't just his own desire, but is also an expression of odium's antipathy of other shards.) Anyway, back to Odium+Ambition, I was trying to think of a single other shard that if added to these 2 would make the combination less malign towards the rest of the cosmere. Ruin: This would be a very, very bad addition. Preservation: I think that this is also a bad combination. You end up with a shard that hates changes and is highly motivated to make sure it never happens. This is a shard that probably concludes that life shouldn't exist. Dominion: This would be a bad addition. Devotion: Maybe a good addition. Devotion seems like the most diametrically opposed shard to odium, so it should temper the shard, and maybe lead it to inaction. Endowment: Maybe a good addition. This is also a somewhat opposed shard to odium, so it might temper the shard. Honor: Not a good addition. Honor is how you achieve your ends, but says nothing about what those ends are. Adding this shard just adds to the shard's power. Cultivation: Maybe a good addition. Takes the long view and encourages growth. What do you think?
  6. Sorry for the semi-misleading topic name, but, I've been confused by magic systems in Roshar. As far as I know, magic systems are a natural outgrowth in a world of a Shard's Investiture being well, Invested in the way it is, it's influences with other types of Investiture, etc. Surgebinding, I believe has been confirmed to come from both Honor and Cultivation. Do bi-Shardic magic systems draw an equal amount of influence from both Shards, as I assumed? If so, why does Surgebinding seem to be more of Honor? If Voidbinding is solely from Odium, and there is a 'Cultivationbinding' solely from Cultivation, why doesn't Honor have his own, separate magic system? I'd appreciate it is someone would help me out if they know the answer, or if not, ask Brandon at an event. (I can't make any of the upcoming ones, as I live on the other side of the U.S.)
  7. Do you guys have a idea of what is odium's end goal.As he is not Ruin who just wants to destroy, he is personification of hatred so me must have a goal. I know he wants to free himself but what then. I don't think that is all he wants on Roshar also he seems to Harbor some kind of grudge against Human as they left him and sided with Honor What do you guys think?..
  8. Sorry if there is already a post saying what i say here. I the end of 'the bands of mourning' (chapter 28) there is a section where wax is dead and is talking to harmony. and there harmony shows him (in the cognitive realm) that the planet is engulfed by red mist, and imply that he is under attack from the outside. Furthermore, in the epilog it is said by the set's faceless immortal "recent advances made civilization here too dangerous... So we have decided to remove life on this sphere... You will be allowed to serve in another realm". Does anyone need any further proof that someone who does not belong on Scadrial is muddying things up? I personally think this is odium's work. and part, and i emphasize part, of the reason harmony is open to hoid's own letter but cannot help him. Also the oblivious way the facelees immortal is behaving is very close to the disregard of the fused of their own lives.
  9. Could the Unmade be something like Honor's Heralds, but of Odium? And if they could be, wouldn't it be interesting if they were the "Patrons" of the Voidbinding "Orders"? If Ba-Ado-Mishram could grant Voidlight, maybe she was the "Patron" of the Voidbinding equivalent of the Bondsmiths. I would love to hear your opinions on this!
  10. SUMMARY Cultivation is the Growth Shard. Roshar has stopped growing. The Growth Shard feels compelled to change that. This post speculates what actions Cultivation might take to restore growth and how those actions overlay known Rosharan history. CULTIVATION'S NATURE Odium describes Cultivation’s nature as “transformation. Growth.” (OB, Chapter 57, p. 551.) Cultivation tells Dalinar: “ALL THINGS MUST BE CULTIVATED… I CONTROL ALL THINGS THAT CAN BE GROWN, NURTURED.” (OB, Chapter 114, Kindle p. 1079.) I read this to mean Cultivation controls all living things. FWIW, Brandon says Cultivation would be a mono-green M:tG deck. I think Cultivation doesn’t play favorites among lifeforms – she controls and cultivates “ALL THINGS THAT CAN BE GROWN.” That includes Singers, Aimians, and humans, other fauna plus flora, and each Shard’s spren. CULTIVATION’S PROBLEM IMO, Cultivation as a Shard cannot abide stagnation. Binding Odium led to Desolations that destroyed human civilization more than fifteen times and near-obliterated Singers and their culture. Catastrophe tends to focus mortal minds on survival, limiting the scope of ideas available to the spren “gene pool.” Blockading voidspren in Braize further reduces the spren “gene pool” and bars ideas from cross-fertilizing. The Recreance left spren “only now beginning to recover the culture and society they had lost…” (OB, Chapter 47, Kindle p. 479.) Roshar’s history hurt the growth of all mortal species and the spren that personify their ideas. Roshar’s Shards, IMO, should work well together – as “primal forces,” I believe Honor makes Connections, Odium breaks Connections, and Cultivation changes Connections. These three mechanics seem necessary for a smooth functioning planetary life cycle. Rayse’s ambition and “loathsomeness” means the Shards don’t work well together. I think Tanavast before his death succumbed to the Honor Shard, which also caused dysfunction. The Stormfather tells Dalinar, “HONOR LET THE POWER BLIND HIM TO THE TRUTH—THAT WHILE SPREN AND GODS CANNOT BREAK THEIR OATHS, MEN CAN AND WILL.” (OB, Chapter 38, Kindle p. 406, bold added.) Odium and the Stormfather agree Honor changed and relied on naked oaths at the end, not their meaning: Other passages acknowledge or hint at Honor’s rigidity. Contrary to Cultivation’s neutral view of lifeforms, the Stormfather intones oaths “are the mark of men and true spren over beasts and subspren.” (OB, Chapter 4, Kindle p. 60.) Dalinar elsewhere notes, “The Stormfather…didn’t like the idea of change.” (OB, Chapter 28, Kindle p. 292.) IMO, Tanavast imparted these attitudes to the Stormfather. CULTIVATION’S PLAN I believe Cultivation wants to end Desolations and “unite” Rosharan species to stimulate growth. I think her plan involves replacement of Tanavast, Rayse, and herself as Vessels. Tanavast is too rigid for growth, Rayse too dangerous, and she (like another cosmere heroine) will not want to live without her lover. Cultivation’s “Unite them” plan pushes species interactions and mutual understanding. Moash and Venli switch sides. Venli bonds with both Timbre and her voidspren. Kaladin sympathizes with the Singers. I think he’ll bond Yixli, the yellow voidspren who first found him. IMO, Yixli is a “protection” spren like Syl, and Syl will welcome her companionship. Syl’s growing friendship with Pattern shows her expanding tolerance, rare for an honorspren. (OB, Chapter 97, Kindle p. 908.) Her tolerance matches Kaladin’s. I believe Cultivation restores Sja-anat’s free will to create Glys and resist Odium. Sja-anat serves Cultivation’s transformative function when she “enlightens” spren. CULTIVATION’S IMPLEMENTATION OF PLAN Creation of Radiant Spren As the Shard of Transformation, I believe Cultivation created Radiant spren. Cultivation may have foreseen Aharietiam and needed a magical alternative to the Heralds that didn’t rely exclusively on Honor’s Investiture. Jasnah notes, “The difference between a higher spren like [Ivory] and a common emotion spren was in their ability to decide how to act.” (OB, Chapter 47, Kindle p. 479.) Free will seems important to Cultivation. Aharietiam With the Desolations’ pace quickening, civilization ground down. I’m sure far-seeing Cultivation knew Taln would endure torture millennia longer than other Heralds. Maybe Cultivation sought a healing respite and planted the seed of betrayal in the Heralds’ minds. Taln tells Ash, Recreance I still think there are more answers to the Recreance’s mystery. The Stormfather tells us, It’s plausible these fears caused the Recreance; but IMO Cultivation played a role. I can see a Shard who wants to transform Roshar preferring a new batch of spren and Radiants. Before he learns of the Eile Stele, Dalinar tells Yanagawn the Radiants “lost their vision [and] forgot their purpose: protecting Roshar for its people.” (OB, Chapter 56, Kindle p. 546.) The Stormfather says Honor “guarded against this [and] convinced the Radiants they were righteous…” (OB, Chapter 113, Kindle p. 1052.) As he lay dying, though, Honor “raved” and “promised that Surgebinders” would destroy Roshar. Maybe Cultivation wanted to kill the immortal witnesses to Honor’s raving. She silenced institutional memory until the Last Desolation, just as she pruned Dalinar’s memories. After the Battle of Thaylenah, Dalinar can remind the Radiants of their vision and purpose: “protecting Roshar for its people.” Dalinar does not distinguish among Roshar’s people. He knows the enemy is Odium, not the Singers. Dalinar will craft a war plan that focuses on the Fused. He will seek ways to separate Singers from their new masters. Venli and Rlain will help him. He will “unite them” – all Roshar’s people – to expunge Rayse’s ravages from Roshar. Odium Kills Tanavast I think Cultivation helped Odium kill Tanavast. He’d changed from the person Cultivation loved and was now more Honor than Tanavast. Under her own Shard’s Growth compulsion, I believe Cultivation felt she had no choice. There's two bits of textual evidence. First, Odium says “WE KILLED YOU.” (OB, Chapter 119, Kindle p. 1139.) I believe he needed an accomplice because he was "too shackled" to kill Tanavast on his own. (OB, Chapter 57, p. 550.) Second, the Stormfather says Odium avoids direct fighting since it “might coax out forces that could hurt him, as he has been hurt before.” (OB, Chapter 16, p. 167.) Odium must have known Cultivation would not intervene before he attempted Tanavast's murder. Maybe Cultivation warned Tanavast of his inevitable death. This may be why Honor delegated honorspren creation to the Stormfather. Kaladin says Honor “was setting up an heir.” (OB, Chapter 108, Kindle p. 1015.) Stormfather Becomes Tanavast’s Cognitive Shadow “ALL THINGS THAT CAN BE GROWN, NURTURED” includes the Stormfather, even if he is Honor’s godspren. Merging Tanavast into the Stormfather to await a new Vessel is what the Shard of Transformation might do. The Stormfather notes the change: I believe Cultivation wanted to preserve Tanavast’s mind and memories. She might be the author of Dalinar’s Stormfather-sent visions. Those don’t sound like the ravings of a dying god who fears Surgebinders will destroy Roshar. Illumination seems Cultivation’s specialty. Cultivation as much as Honor wishes to “unite them.” The merger prevented Honor’s power from splintering more than it did and infused that Investiture into the Stormfather: “We are something different. [Honor’s] remnants, your soul, my will.” (OB, Chapter 119, Kindle p. 1141.) Dalinar’s will and the Stormfather’s soul, fortified with Honor’s “remnants,” opened the Spiritual Realm to Dalinar’s command. The Stormfather by himself lacked the mental strength to renew spheres. (OB, Chapter 64, Kindle p. 639.) Cultivation has found a new Honor Vessel. Dalinar I think Cultivation’s touched Dalinar since his early days. The physician who attends him during the Battle of Narak seems shocked Dalinar can still move his scarred arm. (WoR, Chapter 83, Kindle p. 1003.) IMO, Cultivation’s Investiture healed Dalinar during his battle years. Dalinar’s Healing – Cultivation-light or Voidlight? @LerasiumMistborn lists “all the scenes where Dalinar feels this strange ‘warm light’ which comes from [an] unknown source.” I believe this is Cultivation-light. The first scene occurs at the end of WoR, Dalinar’s vision of his youthful home, “before…” (WoR, Chapter 89, p. 1065.) In a 2014 post, I note this scene foreshadows Dalinar’s Bondsmith role, as he transforms from violence to piety. The post mis-ascribes the source of the light as Honor, but it states Dalinar as Bondsmith will directly access the Spiritual Realm. I now believe Cultivation pushed Dalinar’s transformation by implanting memories (real or not) of his pre-Blackthorn days. I also now believe many of the “unite them” exhortations speak in Cultivation’s voice. Cultivation “prunes” Dalinar. She does not change him. She creates the conditions where he can change himself. Dalinar discovers, “When I fall, I will rise again a better man,” and “The most important step a man can take is the next step.” The Nightwatcher could not grant Dalinar forgiveness; Dalinar had to forgive himself. IMO, Cultivation gave him Evi’s last words when Dalinar was ready to hear them. Taravangian We don’t know if Cultivation or the Nightwatcher gave Taravangian his boon and curse, but I think Cultivation chose it. IMO, Cultivation foresaw Taravangian would serve Odium. Knowing Rayse, Cultivation anticipated he would meet Taravangian only on Taravangian’s “stupid” days. Odium doesn’t understand compassion – one of the strongest people Connections. At some future time, on a day of deepest compassion, I believe Taravangian will hurt Odium in some unforeseen way. I agree with consensus Cultivation helped Taravangian create the Diagram. Cultivation’s influence may be why Odium could not foresee Renarin, just as he cannot see Lift. The Diagram persuaded Odium that he could use Taravangian, a decision Odium IMO will regret. Confidence in the Diagram also causes its adherents to act predictably. That helps Cultivation grow Roshar to her desired future. Lift We don’t know the source of Lift’s boon and curse either, but again I think Cultivation chose it. Brandon says Lift hints at Cultivation’s non-boon/curse magic. I suspect soul transformation is at its core. Posters cite the value of food to produce Stormlight if the Everstorm were to blot out the highstorm and cause a Stormlight shortage. SUCCESSOR VESSELS Evidence supports many candidates who might become new Vessels. IMO, a Bondsmith is best positioned to ascend to their bonded godspren’s Shard. Cultivation If the current Vessel stands aside, I lean slightly toward Navani over Dalinar to become the Nightwatcher’s Bondsmith. In favor of Dalinar, Cultivation has already visited and transformed him. He sees Cultivation-light (IMO) when Navani does not. (OB, Chapter 122, Kindle p. 1228.) But Navani understands spren and their transformative power more deeply than Dalinar. Her problem: as a leading artifabrian, Navani heads the spren slave trade. IMO, she must learn the old fabrial method and repent her actions before the Nightwatcher would accept her as Bondsmith. I expect we’ll see this happen: Brandon wouldn’t have Dalinar wait years for Navani only to spend eternity alone if he ascends and she doesn’t. Some posters suggest Taravangian for the Nightwatcher’s Bondsmith. Aside from Cultivation’s help with the Diagram, I see little basis for this. If Cultivation did change Taravangian to oppose Odium, I suggest Odium wouldn’t leave much of him afterwards. Honor I do think Dalinar will ascend as Unity, if he hasn’t already. Will Unity be a new name for Honor, or will Unity include Odium? I can see Dalinar as Vessel for both Honor and Odium. A mind that deeply understands both could wield both. Brandon says, “Dalinar represents both the best and worst of both Honor and Odium” to Cultivation; and “young Dalinar is very Odium. Modern Dalinar is very Honor.” But Brandon might not want to repeat a plot device he uses elsewhere. Odium My favored candidate for Odium Vessel is Ba-Ado-MIshram. Hessi calls her “a highprincess among the enemy forces.” (OB, Chapter 106, p. 984.) Imitating Dalinar, BAM distributed Voidlight during the False Desolation as if she were an Odium Bondsmith. (OB, Chapter 80, p. 780.) A Singer Vessel makes sense if Cultivation wants to “unite them.” The problem with Odium is Rayse, not the Shard’s “primal force.” Like all Shards, there’s nothing inherently evil about Odium. Taln is another possibility. The Ancient of Stone is the Stoneward Order’s patron. I believe the Sibling is the Spren of Stone, and Taln may become the Sibling’s Bondsmith. Ulim and Yixli share human features. This suggests at least some Voidspren came with the Shin refugees from Ashyn. The Shin later revere the Great Spren of the Mountains, Szeth’s Aboshi. Is there some connection between Voidspren and the Spren of Stone? Yixli the protection voidspren moves on stone (OB, Chapter 23, Kindle p. 238), though maybe that’s just her spren group. If the Sibling is related to Voidspren, Taln might be a candidate for the Odium Vessel. CONCLUSION Lots of speculation on a small collection of facts. Even if wrong, I think the main idea is sound – Roshar’s divisions stall its growth, anathema to Cultivation. Her plan, whatever it is, must try to heal that. Final Thought: Dalinar tells Gawx/Yanagawn, “And maybe you are the leader Roshar needs, while I am just an emissary.” (OB, Chapter 56, Kindle p. 545.) Does that foreshadow Roshar’s leader after Dalinar ascends?
  11. Since so many people seem intent on matching the Unmade with Heralds or Surges or whatever, I thought I would bring this forward. I wish I could remember or find the WOB I think supports this, but each Shard has a number that is special to it, or something. For Preservation, it's 16. For Honor it's 10. And for Odium, it's 9. This is why there are 9 Unmade, and we'll see more 9 showing up as we learn more about Odium. EDIT: And why not add a crackpot theory while I'm at it? Adonalsium split into 16 numbered Shards. One through Sixteen. Another guess is that Autonomy is number One also.
  12. The other night I got into a philosophical debate with my fiancé regarding the definition of opposites. In summation we were debating the following topic: Ruin and preservation being opposites. I made up these terms so my fiancé could understand what I was talking about (she has only read Sixth of Dusk). Shard Description of Action Higher Level Description Ruin Entropy, intelligent decay, take away Change Preservation To preserve, keep things the same No Change Cultivation To grow, intelligent growth, to add Change If you focus on the “Description of Action”, then you can see that Ruin and Cultivation are opposites (from one perspective). Or you could call them compatible, but those could also mean the same thing; opposites attract y'know. If you focus on the “Higher Level Description”, you can see that Preservation is opposite of both Ruin & Cultivation. Regardless, that is not what this theory is about. The non-sober debate that I had sparked an idea regarding: the three shards, Harmony’s role in the Cosmere, and where this Mistborn/Stormlight Archive plotline is heading. I’m not going to get into the nitty-gritty details of how this is all going to play out, I’m merely commenting on the larger moves. Here we go… Something is going to happen in the final installment of the Mistborn Era 2 or 3 events that causes Sazed/Harmony to head for Roshar. (Not sure how the timelines match up so not sure if it will be after Mistborn Era 2 or 3 or somewhere in between) · Maybe Sazed can’t beat whatever enemy is attacking Scadrial and so searches how to resolve his problem with acting (finding cultivation to balance him out) · Maybe he beat the enemy attacking Scadrial, learns some info from the enemy and its possible relations to Roshar/Odium, travels to Roshar and discovers the existence of Cultivation In any case, in this theory Harmony will end up on Roshar and play a role in the climax of the first half of the Stormlight Archive. I have a feeling that Harmony will interact with Cultivation, maybe fall in love with Cultivation, then Cultivation dies and Harmony picks up a third shard (Sad stuff often happens to Sazed). Or maybe Harmony shows up just when Odium kills Cultivation’s vessel, and conveniently picks it up (sound familiar?) Oh and probably some of the characters we like will die sadly but also badassly in this climaz. Anyways, Harmony will pick up Cultivation and become…Ouroboros? Balance? Nature…idk. So this new shard will trounce Odium, but Odium is actually a coward and leaves Roshar to go into hiding, greatly diminished (like Sauron or Voldemort). Boom, end of book 5. Then maybe the second half of the Cosmere will be Odium slowly regaining power, maybe he realized he needs to pick up some more shards to challenge the New Harmony Shard so he searches for some of the more sinister ones. Maybe the New Harmony shard will figure out how get the Dor on his side and it will be like Harmony + 6 shards vs Bodium (Badass Odium) + 7 shards…or something like that I have no evidence, didn’t do much research, I just thought it was a cool/possible idea. TLDR; Harmony goes to Roshar, picks up Cultivation, beats up Odium, Odium flees
  13. Mind and magic mingle on Roshar, a world of living ideas. Roshar’s Shards IMO resemble pieces of the Freudian mind. Honor is Freud’s super-ego; Odium is Freud’s id; and Cultivation is Freud’s ego. I think the Freudian mind provides a useful metaphor for the Shards’ conflict. Hear me out. Brandon says Honor is “the sense of being bound by rules, even when those rules, you wouldn't have to be bound by.” Honor sounds like Freud’s super-ego: “The super-ego…reflects the internalization of cultural rules, mainly taught by parents applying their guidance and influence….” Think Szeth’s oathstone. Odium’s “passion” sounds like Freud’s id: “the disorganized part of the personality structure that contains a human's basic, instinctual drives.” Says Odium, “I am lust, joy, hatred, anger, and exultation. I am glory and I am vice.” (OB, Chapter 57, Kindle p. 551.) You see this interplay most clearly in the Heart of the Revel scene (OB, Chapter 78). Revelers embrace pleasure heedless of super-ego-imposed duty. Likewise, Odium as id blasts away Dalinar’s super-ego – the culturally iconic, rule-making Way of Kings. (OB, Chapter 118.) In Freud’s terms, Desolations are super-ego-repressed compulsions of the id that periodically resurface. Cultivation “prunes” for long-term growth. This is the ego’s role: Freud says the ego is like a rider seeking to guide and restrain a willful horse (the id): “The super-ego's demands often oppose the id’s, so the ego sometimes has a hard time in reconciling the two….” (Source.) IMO, Cultivation created Radiant spren (through the Nightwatcher) as super-ego-like cultural ideals to help bind society, the antidote to basic instinctual drives. I think the Freudian mind analogy is interesting even if Brandon doesn’t intend it. The words “fiery surge,” “red lightning and impetuous rage,” and “desolation, void of light,” appear within eight lines of each other in John Milton’s description of Hell. (Paradise Lost, Book 1, lines 173-181.) Does Brandon intend that allusion? You don’t always know with authors. @Bigmikey357 gave me the idea for this topic when he said, “So basically Odium was Adonalsium’s id before they split up.” If you like the idea, credit him.
  14. I was walking around listening to music and thinking about the Stormlight Archive a thought struck me that I can't get out of my head. In OB Ch. 57 when Dalinar meets Odium and he says he's not afraid of him and Odium shows him all the fires that represent Passion and the core violet flame that is Hatred. When Dalinar comes to he still sees the violet fire in Odium's eyes. I can't help, but score this scene to "In Your Eyes" by Peter Gabriel. The song compares romantic passion in another's eyes to religion and I think of how Dalinar mistook Odium for Tanavast/The Almight when he first met Odium (even though he already met Tanavast who introduced himself as The Almighty in a vision Dalinar experienced ... 3 times, pay attention Dalinar!) Days pass and this emptiness fills my heart All my instincts, they return And the grand facade, so soon will burn In your eyesThe light the heatIn your eyesI am completeIn your eyesI see the doorway to a thousand churchesIn your eyesThe resolution of all the fruitless searchesIn your eyesI see the light and the heatIn your eyesOh, I want to be that completeI want to touch the lightThe heat I see in your eyes
  15. I went through my OB notes and came up with some ideas I’d like to let loose. Others may have anticipated them, but if so, I didn’t notice your posts. Please take your credit. IS MRAIZE A DYSIAN? Random reasons provoke this question: 1. Spy Network. Mraize and the Ghostbloods seem as informed as any group on Roshar. We know Dysians use their hordelings as spies. 2. Unseen Actions. Mraize delivers his messages to Shallan completely unnoticed. It’s as if he disassembles then reassembles in her room where he writes his notes. 3. Mraize’s Face. Mraize’s scarred face may mask his Dysian imperfections. Here’s how Shallan describes him at their first meeting: The second time Shallan meets Mraize, she observes “his scarred face, misaligned lip, and weathered hands… he looked like someone who had repeatedly had his bones broken….” (WoR, Chapter 54, Kindle p. 628.) 4. Mraize’s Age. Mraize calls Veil “child,” like Hoid calls Shallan and Jezrien (Ahu) calls Dalinar. This appellation surprises Shallan, since she made Veil appear older: This suggests (but doesn’t prove) Mraize may be pretty old himself. (He does call Shalash “Ancient One,” but that seems more respect than an indication of relative age.) Mraize as a Dysian also explains his contact with other Shardworlds – @Overlord Jebus theorizes (correctly IMO) that Dysian hordelings will foster inter-Shardworld communication. Of course, Mraize could also be a Hoid masquerade, but for now I’ll stick with a Dysian “from Thaylenah.” AN HONORSPREN OATH? Notum tells Kaladin, “’I’ve sworn an oath myself,’ the captain said. ‘To Honor, and to the truths we follow.’” (OB, Chapter 108, Kindle p. 1017.) This causes me to wonder: Must honorspren swear an oath to become an honorspren? Is it a rite of passage like confirmation? Do some “honorspren” refuse to vow? Are these the mistspren that sail the Honor’s Path? NALE’S FIFTH OATH Nale has spoken the Fifth Skybreaker Oath, which he says means he has become “the Law.” This seems wrong. Nale’s Divine Attribute is “Just,” which means he should embody Justice, not the Law. Instead, Nale derides Justice as inferior because mercy leads to recidivism: KR orders share their Herald’s Divine Attributes. Radiant spren IMO are attracted to people with the right Primary Divine Attribute – “protect” (Honorspren), “just” (Highspren), “brave” (Ashspren), “loving” (Cultivationspren), “learned” (Truthwatcher spren), “creative” (Cryptics), “wise” (Inkspren), “resolute” (Lightspren), “dependable” (Stoneward spren), and “pious” (the three Siblings). Radiant spren are living exemplars of these Attributes. I believe the Fifth Oath fully manifests Radiant spren in the Physical Realm. They merge Spiritwebs with their bonded mortal, who becomes the living exemplar of their Primary Divine Attribute. Nale should be Justice, not the Law. Since he thinks he’s the Law, I suspect Lift did not fully heal him. IS TIMBRE ICO’S DAUGHTER? Timbre may be Ico’s daughter. Ico is the captain of the spren ship that picks up Kaladin, Shallan, Adolin, etc. at Riino’s Shadesmar lighthouse. Ico is a Lightspren, the Willshaper spren. He tells Kaladin, “My daughter used to work [at the Celebrant moneychangers] before she ran off chasing stupid dreams.” (OB, Chapter 101, Kindle p. 948.) Something about that line sounds like Timbre is his daughter and ran off, like Syl did, to bond with a mortal. Maybe her “stupid dream” is to be first to bond a Singer. That’s something a Lightspren might want to explore. Timbre attunes to “Resolution” quite a bit, the Willshaper Primary Divine Attribute. HONOR AND ODIUM’S POWER I still believe Honor’s power “makes Connections” and Odium’s power “breaks Connections.” On Roshar that generally means “people” Connections. I think the Dalinar-Venli vision shows the full extent of the powers’ difference: Odium breaks. Honor binds. Threnody Spoiler That’s what I got for now.
  16. So i ran into this interesting WoB. Tho Cultivation wasn't mentioned here so maybe he is only more worried about Harmony simply because he is a Shard compared to both Hoid/Dalinar. Still interesting nonetheless that he is more worried of Harmony who is so far away who probably doesn't even have plans involving him(or maybe he does with Hoid's letter and he has Kandra's spying on that place) than the actual people causing him problems upfront. Or is it about overconfidence but he isn't that confident enough against Harmony (cause he is a relatively unknown vessel who just randomly joined the game) ? Personally while i do subscribe on the theory that Autonomy may likely be the big bad. It is interesting to find WoB that push the hype of a possible confrontation between the two bigs of Cosmere. Thoughts ?
  17. So we know that Dalinar will eventually have to face Odium's champion, and who that will be is not yet known. But do we know whether Dalinar himself will actually fight? Or rather appoint his own champion? Dalinar is still a capable warrior yes, particularly with stormlight to aid him, but he's getting older now. He may opt to have someone, such as Kaladin, serve as his champion against Odium's. However, Dalinar is a bondsmith and the Stormfather mentions on at least one occasion that he has the most powerful of the surges, so perhaps Dalinar has an advantage there. Even if he were to fight himself, what weapon would he use? He wouldn't have a shardblade, unless that is when the stormfather finally gives in on that matter. Perhaps he could use one of the honorblades? I believe Vyre now has Jezrien's, but if Dalinar could get hold of one of the honorblades then he would have a shard and hopefully new surges to play around with. But still, how will he face his enemy do we think? The nine shadows of Odium's champion sounds dangerously like a reference to the unmade (perhaps somehow fused into the one champion?). So even with a blade and possibly two extra surges, how could he even hope to defeat his enemy? I realise I am not very familiar with the deeper lore of these books, but that's why I'm here asking questions, right? Anyway, I welcome your thoughts.
  18. Lunchbreak re-read of the Prelude in WoK Kalak thinks this was one of the worst desolations. Yet 9 of the 10 heralds survived. Does anyone think it's possible that Odium somehow gave orders to his army to avoid killing the Heralds this time? Maybe he brokem them enough to expect they would leave the Pact Taln was still killed. Maybe his penchant for lost causes was too much to avoid. Maybe Odium intentionally wanted time alone to break the only unbroken Herald. Is Ishar just crazy now or could he have broken enough to be in Odium's pocket back then, suggesting that leaving Taln would be enough? Essentially, is it possible the "Last" Desolation was a long con by Odium rather than a fortunate happenstance of the only Herald able to hold being the one to go back
  19. Alrighty so this theory does not hold much water but I have not seen it anywhere else and I would like to spark discussion. So we know from a recent wob that Ambition’s Vessel was a Sho Del. I for one had always speculated this was the case as the name seemed atypical compared to most of the vessels who have been name dropped. That said it occurred to me, whilst I reminisced on my hunt for the Sho Del shard or shards, that perhaps Aona and Skai were Sho Del by no other reason than my warped perception of their names and the fact that Rayse wanted them out of the way along with Uli Da. So the theory is that Odium is hunting the Sho Del shards for reasons unknown. I’d love to hear your thoughts and criticisms!
  20. Just fleshing this one out. Im not very realmatic and I think this pushes the boundaries of what we know so I thought you guys could help (expand, denounce, enjoy, etc). To start with I want to point out the importance of perception in the Cosmere, especially where investiture is invloved. And also consider Odium has already convinced at least one civilization he is Passion - ok, talking about the Fuzed and ancient singers and I known he didnt get all of them, but they are an invested people so maybe this "hack" works better with them.. Also is this the only culture hes integrated with as "Passion" i wonder? Now the big Q: what if Odium is using "Passion" to gain "access" to more investiture? Now im not saying that there's no passion in hatred, but I do want to point out Passion isnt an emotion dedicated to hate alone - especially when looking at other Shards intents. Have a look at the shards Odium has already broken and consider the potential "passion" involved with their intent. Hmmm, i wonder if a Vessaless shard is easier to "access"..? Now back to the question, im not trying to suggest Odium is doing this for more power as it has been stated a few times he does not want anothers intent to influence him. Im thinking more abstractly regarding what this "access" intales. For example if someone invokes passion it gives the big O a window to view them, and knowledge for a General in wartime is quite important. Thats just an example, what do we think? !~ HIF ~!
  21. I must be a simpleton. Three simple words: "we killed you". I don't understand any of them. I splintered Honor ("you" = Honor; "we" = Odium + minions and/or traitors; "killed" = Splintering of Honor and maybe subsequent death of Tanavast): Obvious. But Odium doesn't seem like the most likely to be sharing credit with what he probably sees as lesser contributors. And Dalinar didn't say he was Honor. He said he was Unity. We Shards splintered Honor ("you" = Honor; "we" = Odium + another Shard; "killed" as above): Also obvious. What other Shard? Nepene suggested Autonomy below. Cultivation and Honor are local, but surprising possibilities given what we understand of their motivations. But why did Dalinar say he was Unity? Our group Shattered Adonalsium ("you" = Adonalsium; Implicitly "we" = Rayse + other actors; "killed" = Shattering of Adonalsium): Does that mean that Dalinar reminds him of Adonalsium? Is Unity the same as Adonalsium? Is Dalinar rebuilding Adonalsium? Why does Syl think it's Honor's Perpendicularity? Because Honor was part of Adonalsium and she didn't know Adonalsium? Dalinar and I killed Evi ("you" = Evi; "we" = Odium + Dalinar; "killed" = normal human death): Fifth of Daybreak proposed this below. The "we" makes sense. I assume that the voice is Evi and she has lingered somehow, rather than traveling beyond. But does Odium even know about the communication between what I presume to be Evi and Dalinar? Why would Odium focus on a long-dead pawn in the face of a presence of something that sees him as small that he is apparently unwilling to face? In context, wouldn't Odium be addressing what's in front of him? Dalinar's anger and I overcame Dalinar's responsible, growing self ("you" = new, controlled Dalinar; "we" = Odium + Dalinar's anger; "killed" = human internal transformation): Crimson Not Blood suggests this below. Autonomy and I splintered Unity: mirianme proposes this on the second page. A related issue is what Dalinar is becoming and what is influencing him. It seems awkward to include here. Is the god beyond encouraging Dalinar to unite the Shards? What did Tanavast's unity charge in the vision mean? Unite the human nations? Unite the humans and the parsh? Or is Tanavast also encouraging him to unite the Shards? Was Tanavast under the influence of what Dalinar is perceiving? Does this deserve it's own thread or should I try to include it? You guys have already provided other explanations. Let's figure this out as well as we can!
  22. From the album SA Fanart by FelCandy

    Smol Odium doodle Watercolor 6x4
  23. On Roshar, the people believe seeing the future is evil. The few instances we've seen of foresight are associated with Odium. At a recent signing, Brandon said this: I find the bolded part where he trails off to be amazingly fascinating. Given the rest of the conversation, I propose that seeing the future is dangerous because of the following possibilities: 1. It draws the attention of the Shard (or its agents as explained below) that is powering the foresight. 2. It is heavily influenced by the intent or motives of the Shard that's powering it. 3. It's an ability granted by the Shard on purpose in order to manipulate events toward a future that the Shard (or its agents) desires. 4. It aligns you to the intent or motives of the Shard. This can be short-term (see atium below) or long-term. Repeated uses may cause a more lasting efect. 5. There's also the always-present conundrum of trying to change the future after you've seen it. Without context, you have no idea if changing your actions will cause that future or if not changing your actions will cause that future. The true answer could be any of the above, none of the above, or some combination of the options I've given. In order to evaluate possibilities, I've discussed the instances we've seen of people seeing the future, either as a summary, or as specific text, or links. Atium: We know how atium fuels Allomancy. It lets you see a few moments into the future. It also increases your mental and physical capabilities in order to take advantage of that knowledge. Sazed speculates in one of the HoA epigraphs that This appears to correlate to possibility 4--That seeing the future via atium temporarily aligned a person toward Ruin, the essence of entropy toward destruction. It might also explain why, after using atium as a metal mind and burning it for so long, TLR had such Ruinous impulses--mass slaughters, willingness to let the nobility destroy each other, etc, etc. After a thousand years of compounding atium, it's likely that he was very Connected to Ruin. It might also tie into possibility 3, assuming the possibility of Ruin wanting Rashek to become such a despot that he's overthrown just as the Well is about to fill, opening the way for Vin to take and release the power. Endowment: Endowment appears to be able to see some of the future, and sometimes her Splinters, the Returned, can pick up on this as well. We see this in Warbreaker, when Lightsong has his dreams and visions of T'Telir burning. She appears to send her Returned back in order to do a specific task (or set of tasks) based on what she sees, giving rise to possibility 3. Endowment apparently wanted the Hallandren and Idrians to persist, and sent back some of her Returned to help prevent the coming destruction. She probably has multiple contingency plans for if one of them dies before his or her task is accomplished. Wyrn: In the Elantris Annotations Brandon says: And Given that the Seons are Splinters of Devotion, (Love) and the Skaze are Splinters of Dominion, it seems like the Skaze are manipulating Wyrn in order to achieve their goals (Goals hinted at in the new epilogue in the 10th Anniversary Edition of Elantris) , tying back to possibility 3. Devotion and Dominion are both splintered, but the Skaze may retain enough of Dominion's intent to want to have complete dominion over the world (or maybe re-assemble Dominion?). And we come to the Stormlight Archive! We have more examples of foresight in SA than we have in any other book. There are three primary examples of it: Moelach: On the bridge between life and death, Moelach grants visions of the future, that the person utters in a cryptic and strange way, a phenomenon coined as Death Rattle. We don't really understand much about how this works, but the Death Rattles have been startlingly accurate, if incredibly obscure, so far. However. Moelach is a Splinter of Odium (along with the other Unmade). The Death Rattles we've seen so far all seem to be related either to the conflict between Odium and most of Roshar, or related to the people that are in that struggle. I have no absolute proof of this, but it's not a wild assumption (imo) to think that Odium, via Moelach, is using the Death Rattles to affect people's behavior. I realize this is putting conclusion before evidence, but I feel that it's a credible conclusion. Moelach is one of the mindless Unmade, as far as we know, so he's unlikely to have motives of his own. As a Splinter of Odium, Odium must have created him for a reason. We know Odium has a pretty good grasp of possible futures. Creating an Unmade to give people glimpses of the future (in a rather morbid way) to get them serving his purposes isn't beyond the realm of possibility. Renarin: We know very little about how Renarin's abilities work, and what types of things he can see, or how they will affect events. We know that his spren, Glys, is a Truthwatcher spren corrupted by Sja-Anat, another Splinter of Odium, and that Glys is likely what grants Renarin the ability to see the future. Renarin has seen Jasnah killing him. This would end him as a Radiant and as a Kholin. I confess, I am unsure what purpose his death would serve in Odium's cause. However, Renarin also saw Dalinar turning into Odium's champion. This would obviously be quite a desirable outcome for Odium. Given that Renarin has done a few things in order to try and warn about or prevent the things he sees, did he, consciously, or subconsciously, take actions that helped to bring that set of events into reality? We don't know yet what effects this might have, so I'm unsure which of the above categories this could fit into. The Diagram: Taravangian believes that he wrong the Diagram out of pure human capability and insight, rather than foresight. However, according to this WoB: As we know, in the Spiritual Realm, all times and places are essentially one. Seeing into the future in all other instances has been seeing into the Spiritual Realm. If Taravangian was closer to the Spiritual Realm than the Cognitive Realm, then he's likely incorporating at least some parts of what he sees in the Spiritual Realm into the Diagram. What we've seen him do so far has seemed to align him toward Odium's desires and motives. However, he was granted this ability by Cultivation, who is at odds with Odium. There was a lively discussion in this thread about the Diagram being a plant (pun intended) put in place by Cultivation. That T's actions, although they seem at odds with Dalinar+co, actually are meant to help them; and that T himself is unaware of this. As you can tell, I subscribe to this theory myself. This would fit in with possibilities 2, 3 and 4 above. Cultivation seems very crafty and careful, playing the long game with Dalinar, with Lift, and probably with T. And finally, we have Hoid. He has an ability to know where he needs to be at any given time. We don't really know most of his motives, so there's no way to determine what "where he needs to be" means, exactly. We're also very unsure as to how he knows to be in those places. We do know he uses something similar to Chromium Feruchemy in order to tap Fortune, but possibly isn't Feruchemy itself. We don't know what Shard he draws on, what intent that Shard might have, or if it's even a Shard at all. If someone can manage to tap directly into the Spiritual Realm without intervention from a Shard, it seems like Hoid would be the one. I'm also sure he's self-aware enough to know when/if he's being manipulated by whatever power he's using. So in short, I have no conclusions to draw about Hoid's abilities, other than a reiteration of his own speech to Shallan: There's always the risk, in seeing the future, of bringing about the exact consequence you want to prevent. That might be the simple answer to this entire question. Won't my face be red if it is! So, there is my long winded theory about the dangers of seeing the future. Please feel free to add to it or rip it to pieces, and thanks for reading!
  24. I'm wondering: is it possible the "Sibling" was twisted and broken up into the unmade? We have this about the unmade from the Arcanum: Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) 1) The Nightwatcher and Stormfather are parallel entities such that Nighwatcher:Cultivation :: Stormfather:Honor. 2) There is sort of a parallel for Odium, but the parallel is the various Unmade instead of a single entity. 3) They are parallel in that they are all Splinters. 4) The Unmade are voluntary Splinters, because Odium ("like almost all of the other Shards") voluntarily Splintered part of it's power. 5) The Stormfather is different from the others because it's a Sliver. source So Odium voluntarily Splintered part of its power into the Sibling, then somehow the Sibling splinters into the Unmade (probably parallel or similar to the splintering of Adonalsium). On Roshar, there is one splinter for Honor (the Stormfather) and one for Cultivation (the Nightwatcher). Why would Odium have nine splinters (the unmade)? We know there is a sibling, but if the sibling is Odium's splinter, then where do the unmade fit in? In my mind, it's possible the Unmade were once one splinter: the sibling. Given that Dalinar has imprisoned the Thrill, I'm also wondering if uniting the Unmade will become a goal of his. Certainly sabotaging the Heralds and the Unmade are part of the war against each other, but if Dalinar can remove all the Unmade from the playing field by uniting them back together... Disclaimer: I searched "unmade+sibling+unite+dalinar" and still got over 1,000 results on the forums. This theory seemed different enough from the ones I read - I know there are a few threads regarding things Dalinar needs to unite, and what/who the Unmade are, and who the Sibling is, but none actually seemed to put them together. Regardless, I apologize if this has already been discussed!
  25. Hey team, I apologise in advance if this post isn't particularly well laid out - I have little time at the moment and a thought just struck me so I wanted to get it down before I forget about it, and I don't know if this has been discussed before or already theorized (I had a quick look and couldn't find a mention of it). I agree with @Calderis that there are three specific magic systems that operate in three different ways. I also agree that the fused have not been Voidbinding currently. Essentially the theory is that how magic on Roshar works is that: A) Surgebinding is the system of magic through which the fundamental forces of nature are manipulated through the filter of Honor and Cultivation Fabrials is the system of magic through which these forces of nature can be trapped, stored and then used (this one I am less confident about and would be interested C) Voidbinding is the system of magic through which the fundamental forces of nature are manipulated through the filter of odium. This, especially the Voidbinding postulation, I base on the WOB below. Linked to this, if we consider that Voidbinding is the accessing of the fundamental laws of creation and forces (as per the quote) through Odium, then because humans were originally of odium, and we know that they destroyed their previous home, I believe that humans used Voidbinding to destroy Ashyn. This fundamentally would suggest that humans were the original Voidbinders. This would also tie in nicely to them being the Voidbringers. So to conclude quickly: Voidbinding is the accessing of the forces of creation through the filter of odium and humans were the original voidbinders who used voidbinding to destroy Ashyn.