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Found 348 results

  1. Welcome one and all, as I invoke the most potent of muses: half-baked rambling! Part one: Ground work It's probably for the best if I lay down some basic premises that I'm working from for clarity. Premise one: all arcana found on Roshar are, at their root, emanations of the Surges. Surgebinding, Voidbinding, fabrials, the "even more esoteric" system that Khriss theorises in the Roshar essay, the powers of the Unmade, the forms of the singers and whatever else there might be. The possible exception is the Old Magic, which Brandon himself has called its own weird thing. Premise two: Odium is fully capable of granting access to all ten Surges, the lack of Adhesion Fused is deliberate on Rayse's part. It makes more sense to me that he'd just copy/access the existing framework of Surgebinding, rather than building his own, separate 9/10 of Surgebinding. Premise three: there are Physical, Cognitive and Spiritual manifestations of every Surge, as well as "Radiant" and "Voidish" expressions of the same. Part two: What was Rayse afraid of? What do mean by that? Under my interpretation, Rayse deliberately withheld Adhesion from the Fused, which seems odd. Why would he want his servants to only have access to nine of the Surges? Are Bondsmiths not proof that Adhesion can be an incredible boon to your forces? Even if they don't have access to the level of power of a Radiant Bondsmith, they should still have access to the same Adhesion abilities, just weaker. Having a couple of Fused who could act as walking batteries for the extremely Light-hungy Nex-im, for instance, feels like a great force multiplier. We can also infer that Odium can grant access to Adhesion, as a limited expression of it is the simplest explanation for the abilities of envoyform, making the lack of Adhesion Fused even more glaring. You might at this point be wondering why I claim that Rayse was afraid of something, only to blather about why it's weird that there are no Adhesion Fused instead. Worry not, I'll get to that. So, what do we know of Rayse's goals? Rayse wants to be the top dog in the cosmere and he wants to remain Odium. Rayse wants to be free to go on his murder rampage, so he does not want to Invest Odium anywhere, so as to not anchor him to a system. We can even track a possible modus operandi, as the Unmade are implied to have been something else in the past and several Voidspren show the telltale red of corrupted Investiture, which suggests to me that Rayse would typically twist existing things to serve him, rather than creating those things himself. We can also see this in his actions as tempter on Ashyn and his goal to make Rosharan humanity his army, after the cycle of Desolations has toughened them up enough. We also know that prior to the False Desolation and related events Roshar had two Pure Tones, after it had three. This implies to me that something that happened there Invested Odium on Roshar. Something we can guess didn't happen at Rayse's volition. Now, you might ask "why would being Invested be a problem to Rayse? Surely he'd not be morally conflicted at reclaiming any part of his that got Invested somewhere?" And no, I don't think he'd have a moral problem with taking back his power, but I don't think he can, or at least it's hard for him. As other people have already noted, for instance the thread speculating that Division is Odium's Truest Surge, Odium generally stands for something divisive, just as Honor can be seen as uniting. And yes, both can switch places, but hatred generally pushes you away from people and following some form of framework generally makes you part of a group. As just one example, we can see these thematic elements of Odium and Honor in the Surgebinders: Knights Radiant are a union of spren and humans (traditionally), working together to do things neither can do alone. Fused are solitary, forgoing even the normal relationship between spren and singer, as well as casting out the soul of the singer whose body they inhabit. And Odium's forces have other thematic divisions or separations as well: Most of the Fused have lost track of their original goal, being unlikely to relinquish rule to the common singers if they actually won. They are no longer fighting for their stated goal and are thematically separated from themselves. The former parshmen have been denied both the opportunity to make their own future and the ties they gained to the various national cultures of Roshar, they are separated both from their own self-determination and cultural roots. Moash/Vyre is very straightforward, he's separated from his emotions. The Unmade are separated from whatever they were before they were Unmade. And, while he's not known to be on Odium's side, Renarin's bond to an Enlightened spren sets him apart from normal Radiants. So, Odium is a (generally) separating force, so what? Well, that, along with the idiosyncracies noted by robardin, I believe, last week, points to that Odium might have a hard time reclaiming his Investiture. -Oathbringer, chapter 118 -Rhythm of War, chapter 112 -Rhythm of War, chapter 111 For all Rayse's threatening he apparently can't make good on the threat to force the Fused to stay away or to punish a traitor? It seems to be a lot of bluster. So what would Rayse be afraid of? Becoming Invested somewhere, hindering his murder-athon and, by extention, someone else being able to manipulate Odium's Investiture freely. Thus my conclusion is that Rayse wouldn't risk having Bondsmith-alike Fused, on the off chance that they'd so something Bondsmith-y, resulting in some of his power going where he doesn't want it. This might also be why the Everstorm doesn't infuse gems, though I do believe that Voidlight naturally cycles back to Odium, even if it can't be actively reclaimed. Also that Rayse seems like a blithering idiot for not following the Returned design philosophy, but then again, it's entirely possible he couldn't tweak that to run only on Voidlight, rather than Investiture over all. A side-note at the end of this is also that I think it could be possible that the Fused getting a passive and an active effect from their Light might be a conscious design descision on Rayse's part, as an attempt to make less of Odium's Investiture circulate. Part three: Unmade, Surges and cousinspren So, what's the deal? Well, there's this WoB: Which has of course had people trying to find which one maps to which Order, though note that Brandon says it's not a perfect match. I have personally thought that the Unmade should fill the Bondsmith spot, being parallel to the Stormfather and Nightwatcher. I'm fully prepared to accept that this might be the case, that bonding an Unmade produces a Bondsmith, even though the power of the spren itself isn't in the same slot. However, I recently encountered something that shifted my perspective and made me think that this might not be the case. Now, as I stated in part one, I believe that whatever the Unmade powers are, they fully fit within the context of the Surges. I also favour the cousinspren method of parallels, as each cousinspren seems able to manifest the primary Surge of the associated Radiant Order, e.g. windspren known to stick things together, a manifestation of Adhesion. (I do think that properly what I call the primary Surge would be denoted secondary Surge, as otherwise the Radiant Order that lacks a corresponding Fused Brand is Windrunners, not Bondsmiths. But I'm gonna use primary, since that's the order they're listed in.) Now, we need to be conscious of that there are three Unmade we don't really know anything about; Ba-Ado-Mishram, as all her Connection and Bondsmith-seeming shenanigans don't seem to have been a thing before the False Desolation, going by the Gem archive, that being her only known abilities makes it hard to line her up with anything, as it's apparently not her base powerset, Dai-Gonarthis, who is an almost complete unknown and Chemoarish who is much the same. That in mind, let's make a list! Windrunner/Surge of Adhesion Unmade: Yelig-nar I personally believe that Yelig-nar's ability to grant all Surges possibly comes from an application of Adhesion, similar to the Bondsmith ability to manipulate the Surges of other Radiants. He also fits thematically, being known as Blightwind. Skybreaker/Surge of Gravitation Unmade: BAM/Dai-Gonarthis/Chemoarish We have not seen the influence of any Unmade that I would assume uses a form of Gravitation, leaving only the three unknowns. Dustbringer/Surge of Division Unmade: Nergaoul Nergaoul's power could well be a Cognitive manifestation of Division, it both breaks down resolve and discipline and causes people to fight like individuals, not soldiers. Thematically the total loss of control of the Thrill is absolutely counter to the Dustbringer theme of self-mastery. Edgedancer/Surge of Abrasion Unmade: BAM/Dai-Gonarthis/Chemoarish Not much to say here, again I don't think an Unmade we've properly seen the influence of lines up. Thematically Chemoarish might fit, being known as Dustmother, but that is tenuous. Truthwatcher/Surge of Progression Unmade: Moelach Moelach's power to grant access to glimpses of the future might be a manifestation od the Surge of Progression, a Cognitive/Spiritual application of Growth, granting further access to the Spiritual at the Realmatic transition of death. Thematically Moelach grants access to looking at what can or will be, instead of the present truth of what is. Lightweaver/Surge of Illumination Unmade: Re-Shephir Shallan directly compares her to a creationspren, confirmed to be the cousinspren of Cryptics. Thematically she makes tangible darkness where Lightweavers make ephemeral light. Elsecaller/Surge of Transformation Unmade: Sja-anat Sja-anat changes spren, the most straightforward cause of which would be Transformation. Thematically she's also semi-present in both the Physical and Cognitive Realms, in addition, she's called Taker of Secrets, contrasting the scholarly characterisation of the Elsecallers, she aquires the knowledge of others rather than making new knowledge. Willshaper/Surge of Transportation Unmade: BAM/Dai-Gonarthis/Chemoarish The last Surge which no Unmade seems to have exhibited thus far, making it hard to guess. Stoneward/Surge of Cohesion Unmade: Ashertmarn Ashertmarn could be placed in a few different spots, and I myself have previously gone with Abrasion, but after some consideration I think that the power of the Heart of the Revel is possibly a Cognitive manifestation of the Surge of Cohesion, making people soft and pliable. Thematically the hedonism of Ashertmarn can also be seen as an inversion of the Stoneward theme of being where they need to be. Well, that took absolutely forever to type, if you made it here, thanks for reading. I hope it's all (fairly) clear and possible to follow, though I know I tend to ramble. Discussion both welcome and encouraged. ¤_¤
  2. So, in Endowment's letter to Hoid in Oathbringer she mentions that "If Rayse becomes an issue he will be dealt with." This implies she has something of a plan in case Odium comes to Nalthis to try and Splinter her, and I think I know what the plan is? I think Endowment was going to wield Nightblood and use it to help her Splinter Odium or just kill Rayse. We know from a wob that Endowment was "involved" in the creation of Nightblood somehow, which means that she saw something in what Vasher and Shashara were doing and helped them along. We've seen that Odium was scared of Nightblood and for good reason, given how RoW ended. Now, maybe a Shard can't wield Nightblood for complicated Realmatic reasons or something, but if that's the case then Endowment could've planned on having a champion use it. Thoughts? Disagreements? I wanna hear everyone else's opinions on this because I don't have irl friends who I can talk to about this
  3. Ok, I have no proof of this hypothesis. But seeing the fact that Axindweth is from Terris (Scadrial), and she is the one who brings the voidspren to Roshar from Braize, it makes me think that she is a member of the Set, or that she is someone important in Trell's plans. We know that Odium and Autonomy have a "pact", being possible allies, so it would not be strange that Trell is an avatar of Autonomy, who feels admiration for Odium (like Patji in Oathbringer's letter) and seeks the return of the Desolations to favor Odium. It is not a well-crafted hypothesis, but it is what I think it might be. And furthermore, I also think that the Set itself is a reaction to the Ghostbloods, being rival organizations, like the Ghostbloods and Sons of Honor. What do you think?
  4. @Ishar and I were discussing who the third Bondsmith might be, and he presented an interesting idea: What if there is no Bondsmith? With the anti-light, what if Odium's first move is to kill the Nightwatcher, eliminating the third Bondsmith spren? Whether or not this will actually happen is worth discussing, but this also poses another question. We know that lots of people have boons from the Nightwatcher, including Lift, Dalinar, and Taravangian. What would happen to these people––and to Roshar in general––if Odium kills the Nightwatcher? Just curious to see what everyone thinks!
  5. I realize this theory is going out on a limb, and makes a couple of very big assumptions. But I really think this could be a possible route to how the things go in StormLight book 5. Ever since I finished Oathbringer, I've come to the conclusion that since Honor and Cultivation restrained Odium in some way, Odium himself is only a real threat while he has the fuzed and singers obeying him. Obviously, there are humans following Him, along with the Unmade and Thunderclasts, but the vast majority of his forces come from the singers. The Fuzed are basically helpless without willing singers to sacrifice their bodies for them. When I realized this, it also occurred to me that the way to defeat Odium is to find a way to separate him from the singers. My first, relatively stupid, idea was to simply find a way to have the humans and singers on different worlds. Obviously this is never going to happen, since the humans have lived on Roshar for so long, and since the singers were the original inhabitant species, both feel as if it rightfully belongs to them. So I started trying to figure out what might get the singers to turn on or reject Odium. I've posted a theory already about how I think it was the singers that started the wars in the first place. But that alone wouldn't be enough to change their minds. They might not be happy that it was the Fuzed and their like that started the fighting, but that doesn't seem like it could overshadow their anger at humankind. The years they spent as slaves to humans is what is truly fueling their rage. That's when it hit me. What if the humans weren't the only ones to blame for the singer's enslavement? Stick with me on this. During Dalinar's last vision in WoK, Honor tells Dalinar various pieces of puzzle in the conflict between Him and Odium. One line that specifically stood out to me was when he mentions that Odium has realized that the people of Roshar will fight amongst themselves if left alone. This is a fairly simple concept. Getting multiple enemies to turn on each other is one of the easiest ways to defeat opponents. He also claims He will be dead by the anyone ever receives the message, if anyone even does. So it's safe to say that Honor died shortly after he created that message. This line in Honor's message is the first of two pieces of information supporting this theory. Honor's death would have happened after the Herald's decided to abandon the Oathpact (since the visions not only showed their abandoned swords, but at least one vision afterward at FeverStone Keep), which means that two of the four largest unifying forces for humankind, their god and his heralds, would be gone. The main unifying forces left would be the Knights Radiant and the singers, humankind's enemy. You might be able to see where I'm going with this. If Odium could figure out a way to remove both of those, humans wouldn't be as strongly united anymore, and would likely turn on each other. This brings me to my main point. I think that Odium intentionally setup Ba-Ado-Mishram's imprisonment, knowing what would come of it. I believe that Odium realized what would happen if the singers were removed from the equation; that the Radiants and their spren would choose to end the orders if they no longer had an enemy to fight. Honor encouraged the radiants not to give up even after they found out that Roshar originally belonged to the singers, and he also acted as a check against their powers. With Him gone, they lost both of these things, and Odium was likely crafty enough to deduce that if he could remove the singers somehow, the knights would be gone, and humans would eventually start fighting amongst themselves. But what's the evidence that Odium did anything like this? It takes a some amount of reasoning, but there is another piece of information that supports it. The fact that the entire population of singers were bonded to BAM at the time of her imprisonment. Not counting the Listeners, since they were separated at the time. Previously, the Fuzed had taken over willing singers, and some voidspren had granted some singers forms of power. But, if it's possible for one of the Unmade to grant every existing singer a Regal status, then why didn't Odium himself do this? Why hasn't he done this during the current desolation? A larger quantity of powerful soldiers would be better for his army. It doesn't fit. With the way Regals act so aggressively, it's likely they've be even more willing to give themselves up to the Fuzed. Yes, it's possible that there just weren't as many singers at the time of BAM's imprisonment, and this evens things out, but that answer doesn't sit right with me. If their numbers were proportionally smaller, then the Radiants shouldn't have needed to imprison BAM to end the war. During one of Venli's flashback chapters, the voidspren Ulim talks to her about how BAM was imprisoned and what that did to the singers. The fact that he never mentions anything about Odium being responsible makes sense however, since he wouldn't want to reveal anything that might turn singers against Odium, assuming Ulim even knew about it. We don't know when exactly human's learned to imprison spren, but judging from the way the Fuzed were surprised by it, it was probably after Aharietiam. We also don't know where humans learned to imprison spren in the first place. It's entirely possible that Odium himself leaked that knowledge to humans, but i admit that's pure speculation. It's more likely he took advantage of humankind's ability to imprison spread in gemstones. And let's not forget that Odium would need to eventually bring the singers back. Obviously, this is done with the Everstorm. While the Stormfather said that the Everstorm is new, it is old of design, which means that the idea for it probably existed before the recreance, during the time of the desolations. So it could easily have been a part of Odium's plans. It is also possible that he just never thought that Taln would be able to resist for for over four thousand years, and figured by the time Taln broke (which never happened) the humans would be sufficiently divided. If the information that Odium was responsible for the singer's enslavement were somehow distributed to the singer population, I imagine that would turn the entire situation on its head. They might not be any less angry at humans, but if they found out the very god they were following, the one their ancestors had followed, had betrayed them and gotten them enslaved, they would probably abandon Him pretty quickly. It's the sort of thing that could end the war in a chaotic enough way to upend the new Odium's plans and bring a semi-conclusion good enough for the first half of the ten book installment. Of course, the contest of champions would still happen, but this would be a dramatic enough event to impact even that.
  6. So, I've had a couple of theories for a while now that I've wanted to put out there. I don't know if a WoB contradicts them, but I figured I should post this first one. The storm father's explanation in Oathbringer of how the desolations started began with the fuzed and singers attacking humans and the heralds creating the oathpact to stop them. But why exactly did the ancient singers attack in the first place? The way the books are set up, it appears as though after humans arrived on Roshar, they attacked the singers, and the singers retaliated, turning to Odium for power. But this never made much sense to me. First of all, it's never explicitly stated what the humans did to the ancient singers, and second, why would Honor choose to side with human invaders over the people of the world he'd made his home? The first point is actually very important. Sanderson has managed to use character's assumptions to set the tone of the series to great effect so far. Describing the thrill in such a way that readers naturally assumed it to be adrenaline is one of the best examples. The Ella Stele, the ancient document showing that humans were the original VoidBringers, only states that the humans betrayed them, with the betrayal extending to spren, stone, and wind. But, just as with the "Lost Radiants", the betrayal is not explicitly described. That seems intentionally vague to me. As if leaving enough room for something to be interpreted as a betrayal, with the singers interpreting the humans' actions as one, even if it hadn't been intended as one. As I said, the second thing that didn't make sense was why Honor would choose humans who'd supported Odium over the singers who had been of Roshar, especially if they had betrayed the singers who had taken them in. Imagining it as humans going back and forth between Honor and Odium seems unlikely. I think it much more likely that the human abandoned Odium shortly after arriving on Roshar. They saw Honor, and maybe Cultivation, as being more worthy deities, and chose to worship them instead. But then, what triggered the Desolations? Jealousy. As the introduction to chapter 32 of WoR, we get the following passage from a listener's song. The spren betrayed us, it's often felt. Our minds are too close to their realm That gives us our forms, but more is then Demanded by the smartest spren, We can't provide what the humans lend, Though broth are we, their meat is men. This is the passage that sparked this theory when I first read WoR and then Oathbringer a few years ago, with the last line being the most significant to me. If the Listeners had this song, then they knew about the bond between spren and humans/singers. And this passage makes it seem like spren seem to prefer humans to singers for some reason. The betrayals between singers and spren are mentioned in RoW on at least two occasions. The first is mentioned by Blended during Adolin's trial, when she's testifying against him. The second betrayal is implied by Leshwi to Venli, when she says the spren have forgiven them. But what exactly were these betrayals? I think it has to do with how humans can become surge binders much more easily than singers. Syl tells Kaladin in WoR that Parshendi can't become surgebinders, and Venli expresses her surprise to bonding Timbre in Oathbringer for the same reason. I don't know why spren can bond humans more easily, my current guess is because their emotions are more accessible, but if large numbers of spren were drawn to humans and away from singers after the humans arrived, that could easily be seen as a betrayal that extends to the spren, wind, and stones. This leads to my previous conclusion, where singer jealousy is specifically what triggered all this, which is also the betrayal mentioned by Blended. Odium almost certainly fanned the flames, increasing the ancient singers' jealousy of humans drawing the spren, and making them angry at the spren for "betraying" them, but that jealousy was his opening. The singers turned to Odium, who granted them the power to take revenge on humans, which made them the easily manipulated army he wanted. Thoughts?
  7. A question just occurred to me. Let’s say you are goods divine hatred, separated from all that gave it context and your main goal in life seems to be destroying any entity that could ever rival you in power or influence. So you set out to destroy all the other shards. Which ones would you go after? The ones by themselves? Perhaps. Seems like a safe bet. The ones who pose the greatest challenge to your goals? Perhaps. Depending on if you think you could get the advantage over them. How about where a pair of shards are already at battle with each other? Seems like the place I would want to start. But no, where do you end up going? A system containing 2 shards who appear to be working together, who seem content to stay out of your way. The only thing I can figure is that he was tricked into going there or he thought he would have help *squints suspiciously at cultivation* but what ended up happening was exactly what I would have guessed would happen. The two shards in that system were very smart and powerful and trapped him there were he ultimately end up getting killed (at least the vessel). So Why on Adonalsium green earth did Odium think going to the Roshar system would be a good idea? Why not pick off the single shards first or go after the ones already in conflict with one another? What am I missing? What would be worth going up against those odds? A Dawnshard perhaps? I know that he followed the humans there, but why? How did he think things would go? Show up, take out not one, but two shards, and then walk away unscathed? He is the god of hatred, not arrogance.
  8. Am I the only one who thinks that The knights radiant will lead an attack against khabranth once they find out Who the new Odium is and lose the contest of champions?
  9. We are all aware odium has splinteded at least 3 shards (ambition, devotion, dominion) and didn't pick them up because he didn't want to corrupt his own? What id like to ask is what would the combined shard of odium, devotion, dominion and ambition be called? In this scenario he still killed those 3 but chose to take up the shards anyway, ignoring the 'no corruption' but he had originally Lemme know your thoughts!
  10. Question. I was reading the coppermind, and read that Odium fears Harmony. While I understand why that would be the case, what I don't get is how he knows about harmony, since they are in different systems. Also timelines I guess? Idk if the current SA timeline corresponds with Mistborn Era 2.
  11. So, yesterday I finished a re-read of Rhythm of War, and then today wrapped up my annual re-watch of the Lord of the Rings film trilogy (if the username didn't clue you in, I'm a fan;) - like the books better, but enjoy the movies too). It got me thinking of Taravangian's ascension and his plans to use Odium's power to 'save everyone' and it reminded me of a quote from Tolkien's letters about what might have happened if Gandalf had been corrupted by the Ring. "Gandalf as Ring-Lord would have been far worse than Sauron. He would have remained 'righteous', but self-righteous. He would have continued to rule and order things for 'good', and the benefit of his subjects according to his wisdom (which was and would have remained great)." A bit later, he added that "Sauron multiplied... evil, but he left good distinguishable from it. Gandalf would have made good detestable and seem evil." Now, Taravangian's no Gandalf (he's more like Saruman in some ways, 'his feet were on a crooked path,' though IMO the Cosmere's closest parallel to Saruman is probably actually Ishar - though that would be a topic for another post) but the way Odium!Taravangian and Ringlord!Gandalf are described makes them seem somewhat similar in motivation and action, and when you throw in Harmony's letter talking about how he most feared the combination of Odium's power and intent with a mind saner and more cunning than Rayse (who would be Sauron in this analogy)... yeah. Brrr. Not really a super insightful analogy, considering the LotR characters obviously aren't part of the Cosmere, but it did make me think of exactly how Odium's new Vessel is shaping up to be far more dangerous than the old one.
  12. I’ve been wondering since the first time I read the book, why would Odium want to kill The Pursuer? He had lost his mind and his honor but at least he was still a functional asset to the war effort. El could’ve tested the blade on a completely insane fused that couldn’t do anything for them. The pursuer would still constantly tire Kaladin and attack him out of the blue. This was probably already discussed but I just want to know a good reason.
  13. There's a voice In oathbringer that claims venli and saves her from becoming a fused. At first I thought this voice was odium. But after reading Row I'm not so sure. Could it be a void Spren? If so dose that mean tha Venli was a great void Spren in her jem heart? Any thoughts on the voice? Is it odium or spen or something else?
  14. Hi all! I have never joined a forum and I might be doing this wrong. Forgive me if this is the wrong section to post this but I am desperate and clueless. I have for some time been trying to locate the symbol for Raysium (god metal for Odium). Please point me to the right place to look, as I desperately want Raysium as a tattoo. Thank you all in advance for the help! Daniel
  15. In the final few chapters before taravangian became odium. Odium told taravangian "I have lost my champion again" who did odium lose as his champion?
  16. So, this is something that has been bugging me for a while. In the epigraphs of the Way of Kings (possibly WoR, I haven’t checked ‘cause I’m lazy) it says that Odium is the most dangerous of the 16 Shards. So, if Odium is the antagonist of the Stormlight Archive, then who will be the antagonist of the greater Cosmere plot? The answer: Odium himself. Let me explain. It has been established that Odium is raising an army to fight in a “greater war.” Whether Taravangian is continuing this plot is a matter of debate, but for the purpose of this theory, I’ll assume he is. It seems like Taravangian would want to rule the cosmere so that he could “save” it. So, I believe either KoW or SA 10 will end with Odium being freed from Roshar and going to go raise his army somewhere else during the time between SA and Era 4 Mistborn. It would be a nice ending for the SA characters, but it would leave loose ends for Era 4 to tie up. Let me know if I missed anything obvious. Or, if you have any thoughts that might help me expand on this.
  17. My apologies if someone’s talked about this before, but I didn’t find it in a search. What’s going on when Kaladin is fighting the Pursuer after Teft dies? Stormlight powered Surgebinders are left unconscious and drained, even after Lift wakes them up with Lifelight. The the Pursuer attacks Kaladin directly going against Moash’s (Odium’s?) orders, and then Kaladin gets a power up. Not through Ideals, not through Stormlight or the bond with Syl, but through...something else? His eyes glow “yellow / red”. Red is Odium / Voidlight, but what does the yellow represent? How is a human using Voidlight, if he is? Is Odium tempting him with power to corrupt Kaladin from within? Was it driving a wedge between Kaladin and Syl, causing her to become more distant up until the Fourth Ideal was sworn? It actually reminded me of Amaram after he swallowed the Unmade at the end of Oathbringer.
  18. So I’ve seen it thrown around that if Dalinar breaks the Contract Odium can free himself So what is everyone’s thoughts on that; Would it work? If it did what if someone like Jasnah broke the Contract? And what if Dalinar appointed someone to break it for him I would put this in Q&A but it’s an RoW spoiler Hope to see everyone’s thoughts!
  19. So, based on a short discussion shardcast had in their last episode about moash hating humans and hating lighteyes, and thinking that maybe moash won't like Taravodium, I had a sudden image of, near the end of book 5, moash killing taravangian and taking up odium himself. Think about it for a minute. Moash as odium. Loose in the cosmere. I have no idea how likely it is, but it's a terrifying thought.
  20. I'm curious to know Odium is able to sense Moash's thoughts and take away his pain, basically influencing him. I thought shards are only able to hear thoughts and influence their subjects only by hemalurgy, something we saw in the mistborn books. Also, Odium is wounded from the battles with Ambition, Honor, Dominion, and Devotion, and he's confined to Braize, so I'm not sure how he affects and influences his followers so strongly. It seems unlikely that Odium is aware of Hemalurgy, so is it just about being willing to give in to his rule, such as what he tried to do with Dalinar, or singers with voidspren in their gemhearts?
  21. That thread title makes this sound more confident than I actually am, so sorry for the clickbait. My prediction is based on the following: 1) the fact that we’re dealing with T and not Rayse anymore. Rayse would try to win the “conventional” way, because winning the sneaky underhanded way wouldn’t “prove a point” as Wit said. But T is not so limited; he would see that the best way to beat Dalinar isn’t to find a better fighter than Dalinar, but to use Dalinar against himself. And what better way to do that than to force Dalinar to either lose, or kill the person in the world he feels the most responsible for? And a child no less. This much I am confident about: T is not going to use a conventional champion; he’s going to try to turn Dalinar against himself. 2) the deathrattles: And We still don’t know what these refer to, in contrast with a whole bunch of other deathrattles. I think that the first one has to refer to some pivotal/climactic moment of this arc given the way it’s written. And the second one hints what I strongly suspect for narrative reasons: TOdium wins, Dalinar loses, and we set the stage of books 6-10 investigating the nature of oaths and how to safely free Dalinar from the consequences here. What ties them together in my opinion is this choice: to kill the “suckling child” or to choose life. “The night will reign” in my reading refers to reigning across the Cosmere, rather than on Roshar specifically. 3) well I kind of specified this already: narratively it just makes sense. We know that books 6-10 focus on the Heralds, and in my reading Dalinar becomes a Cognitive Shadow just like them. The Heralds want to get out of their oathbound existence, as would Dalinar. And it just fits well for us to have a temporary resolution at the end of books 1-5 without a full resolution that would make books 6-10 disconnected. Reasons for skepticism: a) I mean, I hope I’m wrong. It would be extremely depressing for Dalinar to be consigned to this fate, even for just 10 years. And to wait something on the order of that long in real life until Brandon even begins showing us how he’ll be rescued in books 6-10 is gonna be brutal. trying to use the deathrattles to support a prediction is extremely dicey, especially when there’s a whole book 5 worth of material that we still don’t know about. c) How would Gavinor be a “willing” champion? Dalinar in RoW ch. 112: To answer this specific point, Gavinor seems like a pretty traumatized kid. It’s plausible to me that if offered the “gift of silence”, like Moash got, that he would take it. Is this a stretch? Very much so. But that’s better than the prediction that, say, Adolin would be willing to be TOdium’s champion, which is just ridiculous. Anyway I’m putting this out there both to be able to claim credit on the off chance that I’m right, and to pressure-test the prediction, so fire away!
  22. This is a place to discuss any and all theories about who Odium’s champion for the contest of champions with Dalinar will be. To get you started, here are my thoughts on the topic. (This might run a little long, so I’ll put it in a spoiler box):
  23. Welcome to the pantheon!
  24. So ever since I read RoW I saw a potential loophole that Odium could exploit if he won the contest of champions. So the stakes of Dalinar losing are basically that Dalinar must serve Odium (either as a cognitive shadow fused, or alive) and that Odium still cannot leave the system regardless of the outcome. Anything else is less relevant to this theory. So the idea I had was that if Odium is able to win the challenge without killing Dalinar, then Dalinar should still be bonded to the Stormfather. At this point, what stops Odium from ordering Dalinar to speak for Honor's power and release Odium from the system? It was seen in previous books that Dalinar has this ability, when talking to Odium in the visions he almost accidentally did it as an example. The problems with this theory would mainly come from how the Stormfather's bond is affected by Dalinar aligning with Odium and if the bond breaks before the contest somehow (such as Ishar stealing it). I don't think losing the fight would directly break the bond between the Stormfather and Dalinar since he is still upholding an oath/deal he made with Odium. Anyways I'd love if anyone could pick holes in this idea as this was just my gut reaction/thought to Dalinar wording the deal the way he did. I haven't seen this idea talked about anywhere else, but I have only recently gotten into 17th shard stuff. This is my first post here, so sorry if I messed something up with rules about spoilers, I tried to word everything in a way to have minimal spoilers, just in case.
  25. So we're ten days in the universe away from the big headliner event, with Odium/Dalinar. I'm really interested in hearing what everyone thinks the outcome will be because whatever it will be will set the stage for the back half. No matter what Odium is re-bound, but we still have 5 more books of Roshar plot left. The way I see it there are three options. 1) Dalinar wins. Odium goes back to Braize and the coalition regains Alethkar/Herdaz. In this universe, I see the main conflict of the back half being the question of what will happen to the Singers and what the role of the Knights Radiant is now that the Odium is re-bound. Sanderson could use this to highlight that not all problems are caused by the literal personification of hatred sitting on the system and force the Singers and the Humans to confront the atrocities they've wrought in the past. 2) Odium wins. Fused forces keep their control over most of Roshar and Odium gains Dalinar's soul. This is a much darker world for our protagonists but I think it sets up a more focused back half. It becomes much more crucial that they come to terms the fused and to find a way to find some sort of compromise for everyone who lives on Roshar. I think it could try really neatly into what we've seen with the growth and recovery with some other Heralds and Unmade and the 'sympatheic' fused like Leshwi/Rabonial. 3) Chaos reigns. Someone (Cultivation, Hoid, Kelsier, the Stick, etc.) figures out how to break the contest and a totally unexpected result happens. This is the most unpredictable and unlikely ending but there is some basis for it. Both Odium and the Heralds figure out multiple 'loopholes' in the Oathpact, so even bondsmith/Honor deals aren't infallible. What's everyone else guess/thoughts/ideas?