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Found 229 results

  1. SUMMARY Cultivation is the Growth Shard. Roshar has stopped growing. The Growth Shard feels compelled to change that. This post speculates what actions Cultivation might take to restore growth and how those actions overlay known Rosharan history. CULTIVATION'S NATURE Odium describes Cultivation’s nature as “transformation. Growth.” (OB, Chapter 57, p. 551.) Cultivation tells Dalinar: “ALL THINGS MUST BE CULTIVATED… I CONTROL ALL THINGS THAT CAN BE GROWN, NURTURED.” (OB, Chapter 114, Kindle p. 1079.) I read this to mean Cultivation controls all living things. FWIW, Brandon says Cultivation would be a mono-green M:tG deck. I think Cultivation doesn’t play favorites among lifeforms – she controls and cultivates “ALL THINGS THAT CAN BE GROWN.” That includes Singers, Aimians, and humans, other fauna plus flora, and each Shard’s spren. CULTIVATION’S PROBLEM IMO, Cultivation as a Shard cannot abide stagnation. Binding Odium led to Desolations that destroyed human civilization more than fifteen times and near-obliterated Singers and their culture. Catastrophe tends to focus mortal minds on survival, limiting the scope of ideas available to the spren “gene pool.” Blockading voidspren in Braize further reduces the spren “gene pool” and bars ideas from cross-fertilizing. The Recreance left spren “only now beginning to recover the culture and society they had lost…” (OB, Chapter 47, Kindle p. 479.) Roshar’s history hurt the growth of all mortal species and the spren that personify their ideas. Roshar’s Shards, IMO, should work well together – as “primal forces,” I believe Honor makes Connections, Odium breaks Connections, and Cultivation changes Connections. These three mechanics seem necessary for a smooth functioning planetary life cycle. Rayse’s ambition and “loathsomeness” means the Shards don’t work well together. I think Tanavast before his death succumbed to the Honor Shard, which also caused dysfunction. The Stormfather tells Dalinar, “HONOR LET THE POWER BLIND HIM TO THE TRUTH—THAT WHILE SPREN AND GODS CANNOT BREAK THEIR OATHS, MEN CAN AND WILL.” (OB, Chapter 38, Kindle p. 406, bold added.) Odium and the Stormfather agree Honor changed and relied on naked oaths at the end, not their meaning: Other passages acknowledge or hint at Honor’s rigidity. Contrary to Cultivation’s neutral view of lifeforms, the Stormfather intones oaths “are the mark of men and true spren over beasts and subspren.” (OB, Chapter 4, Kindle p. 60.) Dalinar elsewhere notes, “The Stormfather…didn’t like the idea of change.” (OB, Chapter 28, Kindle p. 292.) IMO, Tanavast imparted these attitudes to the Stormfather. CULTIVATION’S PLAN I believe Cultivation wants to end Desolations and “unite” Rosharan species to stimulate growth. I think her plan involves replacement of Tanavast, Rayse, and herself as Vessels. Tanavast is too rigid for growth, Rayse too dangerous, and she (like another cosmere heroine) will not want to live without her lover. Cultivation’s “Unite them” plan pushes species interactions and mutual understanding. Moash and Venli switch sides. Venli bonds with both Timbre and her voidspren. Kaladin sympathizes with the Singers. I think he’ll bond Yixli, the yellow voidspren who first found him. IMO, Yixli is a “protection” spren like Syl, and Syl will welcome her companionship. Syl’s growing friendship with Pattern shows her expanding tolerance, rare for an honorspren. (OB, Chapter 97, Kindle p. 908.) Her tolerance matches Kaladin’s. I believe Cultivation restores Sja-anat’s free will to create Glys and resist Odium. Sja-anat serves Cultivation’s transformative function when she “enlightens” spren. CULTIVATION’S IMPLEMENTATION OF PLAN Creation of Radiant Spren As the Shard of Transformation, I believe Cultivation created Radiant spren. Cultivation may have foreseen Aharietiam and needed a magical alternative to the Heralds that didn’t rely exclusively on Honor’s Investiture. Jasnah notes, “The difference between a higher spren like [Ivory] and a common emotion spren was in their ability to decide how to act.” (OB, Chapter 47, Kindle p. 479.) Free will seems important to Cultivation. Aharietiam With the Desolations’ pace quickening, civilization ground down. I’m sure far-seeing Cultivation knew Taln would endure torture millennia longer than other Heralds. Maybe Cultivation sought a healing respite and planted the seed of betrayal in the Heralds’ minds. Taln tells Ash, Recreance I still think there are more answers to the Recreance’s mystery. The Stormfather tells us, It’s plausible these fears caused the Recreance; but IMO Cultivation played a role. I can see a Shard who wants to transform Roshar preferring a new batch of spren and Radiants. Before he learns of the Eile Stele, Dalinar tells Yanagawn the Radiants “lost their vision [and] forgot their purpose: protecting Roshar for its people.” (OB, Chapter 56, Kindle p. 546.) The Stormfather says Honor “guarded against this [and] convinced the Radiants they were righteous…” (OB, Chapter 113, Kindle p. 1052.) As he lay dying, though, Honor “raved” and “promised that Surgebinders” would destroy Roshar. Maybe Cultivation wanted to kill the immortal witnesses to Honor’s raving. She silenced institutional memory until the Last Desolation, just as she pruned Dalinar’s memories. After the Battle of Thaylenah, Dalinar can remind the Radiants of their vision and purpose: “protecting Roshar for its people.” Dalinar does not distinguish among Roshar’s people. He knows the enemy is Odium, not the Singers. Dalinar will craft a war plan that focuses on the Fused. He will seek ways to separate Singers from their new masters. Venli and Rlain will help him. He will “unite them” – all Roshar’s people – to expunge Rayse’s ravages from Roshar. Odium Kills Tanavast I think Cultivation helped Odium kill Tanavast. He’d changed from the person Cultivation loved and was now more Honor than Tanavast. Under her own Shard’s Growth compulsion, I believe Cultivation felt she had no choice. There's two bits of textual evidence. First, Odium says “WE KILLED YOU.” (OB, Chapter 119, Kindle p. 1139.) I believe he needed an accomplice because he was "too shackled" to kill Tanavast on his own. (OB, Chapter 57, p. 550.) Second, the Stormfather says Odium avoids direct fighting since it “might coax out forces that could hurt him, as he has been hurt before.” (OB, Chapter 16, p. 167.) Odium must have known Cultivation would not intervene before he attempted Tanavast's murder. Maybe Cultivation warned Tanavast of his inevitable death. This may be why Honor delegated honorspren creation to the Stormfather. Kaladin says Honor “was setting up an heir.” (OB, Chapter 108, Kindle p. 1015.) Stormfather Becomes Tanavast’s Cognitive Shadow “ALL THINGS THAT CAN BE GROWN, NURTURED” includes the Stormfather, even if he is Honor’s godspren. Merging Tanavast into the Stormfather to await a new Vessel is what the Shard of Transformation might do. The Stormfather notes the change: I believe Cultivation wanted to preserve Tanavast’s mind and memories. She might be the author of Dalinar’s Stormfather-sent visions. Those don’t sound like the ravings of a dying god who fears Surgebinders will destroy Roshar. Illumination seems Cultivation’s specialty. Cultivation as much as Honor wishes to “unite them.” The merger prevented Honor’s power from splintering more than it did and infused that Investiture into the Stormfather: “We are something different. [Honor’s] remnants, your soul, my will.” (OB, Chapter 119, Kindle p. 1141.) Dalinar’s will and the Stormfather’s soul, fortified with Honor’s “remnants,” opened the Spiritual Realm to Dalinar’s command. The Stormfather by himself lacked the mental strength to renew spheres. (OB, Chapter 64, Kindle p. 639.) Cultivation has found a new Honor Vessel. Dalinar I think Cultivation’s touched Dalinar since his early days. The physician who attends him during the Battle of Narak seems shocked Dalinar can still move his scarred arm. (WoR, Chapter 83, Kindle p. 1003.) IMO, Cultivation’s Investiture healed Dalinar during his battle years. Dalinar’s Healing – Cultivation-light or Voidlight? @LerasiumMistborn lists “all the scenes where Dalinar feels this strange ‘warm light’ which comes from [an] unknown source.” I believe this is Cultivation-light. The first scene occurs at the end of WoR, Dalinar’s vision of his youthful home, “before…” (WoR, Chapter 89, p. 1065.) In a 2014 post, I note this scene foreshadows Dalinar’s Bondsmith role, as he transforms from violence to piety. The post mis-ascribes the source of the light as Honor, but it states Dalinar as Bondsmith will directly access the Spiritual Realm. I now believe Cultivation pushed Dalinar’s transformation by implanting memories (real or not) of his pre-Blackthorn days. I also now believe many of the “unite them” exhortations speak in Cultivation’s voice. Cultivation “prunes” Dalinar. She does not change him. She creates the conditions where he can change himself. Dalinar discovers, “When I fall, I will rise again a better man,” and “The most important step a man can take is the next step.” The Nightwatcher could not grant Dalinar forgiveness; Dalinar had to forgive himself. IMO, Cultivation gave him Evi’s last words when Dalinar was ready to hear them. Taravangian We don’t know if Cultivation or the Nightwatcher gave Taravangian his boon and curse, but I think Cultivation chose it. IMO, Cultivation foresaw Taravangian would serve Odium. Knowing Rayse, Cultivation anticipated he would meet Taravangian only on Taravangian’s “stupid” days. Odium doesn’t understand compassion – one of the strongest people Connections. At some future time, on a day of deepest compassion, I believe Taravangian will hurt Odium in some unforeseen way. I agree with consensus Cultivation helped Taravangian create the Diagram. Cultivation’s influence may be why Odium could not foresee Renarin, just as he cannot see Lift. The Diagram persuaded Odium that he could use Taravangian, a decision Odium IMO will regret. Confidence in the Diagram also causes its adherents to act predictably. That helps Cultivation grow Roshar to her desired future. Lift We don’t know the source of Lift’s boon and curse either, but again I think Cultivation chose it. Brandon says Lift hints at Cultivation’s non-boon/curse magic. I suspect soul transformation is at its core. Posters cite the value of food to produce Stormlight if the Everstorm were to blot out the highstorm and cause a Stormlight shortage. SUCCESSOR VESSELS Evidence supports many candidates who might become new Vessels. IMO, a Bondsmith is best positioned to ascend to their bonded godspren’s Shard. Cultivation If the current Vessel stands aside, I lean slightly toward Navani over Dalinar to become the Nightwatcher’s Bondsmith. In favor of Dalinar, Cultivation has already visited and transformed him. He sees Cultivation-light (IMO) when Navani does not. (OB, Chapter 122, Kindle p. 1228.) But Navani understands spren and their transformative power more deeply than Dalinar. Her problem: as a leading artifabrian, Navani heads the spren slave trade. IMO, she must learn the old fabrial method and repent her actions before the Nightwatcher would accept her as Bondsmith. I expect we’ll see this happen: Brandon wouldn’t have Dalinar wait years for Navani only to spend eternity alone if he ascends and she doesn’t. Some posters suggest Taravangian for the Nightwatcher’s Bondsmith. Aside from Cultivation’s help with the Diagram, I see little basis for this. If Cultivation did change Taravangian to oppose Odium, I suggest Odium wouldn’t leave much of him afterwards. Honor I do think Dalinar will ascend as Unity, if he hasn’t already. Will Unity be a new name for Honor, or will Unity include Odium? I can see Dalinar as Vessel for both Honor and Odium. A mind that deeply understands both could wield both. Brandon says, “Dalinar represents both the best and worst of both Honor and Odium” to Cultivation; and “young Dalinar is very Odium. Modern Dalinar is very Honor.” But Brandon might not want to repeat a plot device he uses elsewhere. Odium My favored candidate for Odium Vessel is Ba-Ado-MIshram. Hessi calls her “a highprincess among the enemy forces.” (OB, Chapter 106, p. 984.) Imitating Dalinar, BAM distributed Voidlight during the False Desolation as if she were an Odium Bondsmith. (OB, Chapter 80, p. 780.) A Singer Vessel makes sense if Cultivation wants to “unite them.” The problem with Odium is Rayse, not the Shard’s “primal force.” Like all Shards, there’s nothing inherently evil about Odium. Taln is another possibility. The Ancient of Stone is the Stoneward Order’s patron. I believe the Sibling is the Spren of Stone, and Taln may become the Sibling’s Bondsmith. Ulim and Yixli share human features. This suggests at least some Voidspren came with the Shin refugees from Ashyn. The Shin later revere the Great Spren of the Mountains, Szeth’s Aboshi. Is there some connection between Voidspren and the Spren of Stone? Yixli the protection voidspren moves on stone (OB, Chapter 23, Kindle p. 238), though maybe that’s just her spren group. If the Sibling is related to Voidspren, Taln might be a candidate for the Odium Vessel. CONCLUSION Lots of speculation on a small collection of facts. Even if wrong, I think the main idea is sound – Roshar’s divisions stall its growth, anathema to Cultivation. Her plan, whatever it is, must try to heal that. Final Thought: Dalinar tells Gawx/Yanagawn, “And maybe you are the leader Roshar needs, while I am just an emissary.” (OB, Chapter 56, Kindle p. 545.) Does that foreshadow Roshar’s leader after Dalinar ascends?
  2. Since so many people seem intent on matching the Unmade with Heralds or Surges or whatever, I thought I would bring this forward. I wish I could remember or find the WOB I think supports this, but each Shard has a number that is special to it, or something. For Preservation, it's 16. For Honor it's 10. And for Odium, it's 9. This is why there are 9 Unmade, and we'll see more 9 showing up as we learn more about Odium. EDIT: And why not add a crackpot theory while I'm at it? Adonalsium split into 16 numbered Shards. One through Sixteen. Another guess is that Autonomy is number One also.
  3. The other night I got into a philosophical debate with my fiancé regarding the definition of opposites. In summation we were debating the following topic: Ruin and preservation being opposites. I made up these terms so my fiancé could understand what I was talking about (she has only read Sixth of Dusk). Shard Description of Action Higher Level Description Ruin Entropy, intelligent decay, take away Change Preservation To preserve, keep things the same No Change Cultivation To grow, intelligent growth, to add Change If you focus on the “Description of Action”, then you can see that Ruin and Cultivation are opposites (from one perspective). Or you could call them compatible, but those could also mean the same thing; opposites attract y'know. If you focus on the “Higher Level Description”, you can see that Preservation is opposite of both Ruin & Cultivation. Regardless, that is not what this theory is about. The non-sober debate that I had sparked an idea regarding: the three shards, Harmony’s role in the Cosmere, and where this Mistborn/Stormlight Archive plotline is heading. I’m not going to get into the nitty-gritty details of how this is all going to play out, I’m merely commenting on the larger moves. Here we go… Something is going to happen in the final installment of the Mistborn Era 2 or 3 events that causes Sazed/Harmony to head for Roshar. (Not sure how the timelines match up so not sure if it will be after Mistborn Era 2 or 3 or somewhere in between) · Maybe Sazed can’t beat whatever enemy is attacking Scadrial and so searches how to resolve his problem with acting (finding cultivation to balance him out) · Maybe he beat the enemy attacking Scadrial, learns some info from the enemy and its possible relations to Roshar/Odium, travels to Roshar and discovers the existence of Cultivation In any case, in this theory Harmony will end up on Roshar and play a role in the climax of the first half of the Stormlight Archive. I have a feeling that Harmony will interact with Cultivation, maybe fall in love with Cultivation, then Cultivation dies and Harmony picks up a third shard (Sad stuff often happens to Sazed). Or maybe Harmony shows up just when Odium kills Cultivation’s vessel, and conveniently picks it up (sound familiar?) Oh and probably some of the characters we like will die sadly but also badassly in this climaz. Anyways, Harmony will pick up Cultivation and become…Ouroboros? Balance? Nature…idk. So this new shard will trounce Odium, but Odium is actually a coward and leaves Roshar to go into hiding, greatly diminished (like Sauron or Voldemort). Boom, end of book 5. Then maybe the second half of the Cosmere will be Odium slowly regaining power, maybe he realized he needs to pick up some more shards to challenge the New Harmony Shard so he searches for some of the more sinister ones. Maybe the New Harmony shard will figure out how get the Dor on his side and it will be like Harmony + 6 shards vs Bodium (Badass Odium) + 7 shards…or something like that I have no evidence, didn’t do much research, I just thought it was a cool/possible idea. TLDR; Harmony goes to Roshar, picks up Cultivation, beats up Odium, Odium flees
  4. Mind and magic mingle on Roshar, a world of living ideas. Roshar’s Shards IMO resemble pieces of the Freudian mind. Honor is Freud’s super-ego; Odium is Freud’s id; and Cultivation is Freud’s ego. I think the Freudian mind provides a useful metaphor for the Shards’ conflict. Hear me out. Brandon says Honor is “the sense of being bound by rules, even when those rules, you wouldn't have to be bound by.” Honor sounds like Freud’s super-ego: “The super-ego…reflects the internalization of cultural rules, mainly taught by parents applying their guidance and influence….” Think Szeth’s oathstone. Odium’s “passion” sounds like Freud’s id: “the disorganized part of the personality structure that contains a human's basic, instinctual drives.” Says Odium, “I am lust, joy, hatred, anger, and exultation. I am glory and I am vice.” (OB, Chapter 57, Kindle p. 551.) You see this interplay most clearly in the Heart of the Revel scene (OB, Chapter 78). Revelers embrace pleasure heedless of super-ego-imposed duty. Likewise, Odium as id blasts away Dalinar’s super-ego – the culturally iconic, rule-making Way of Kings. (OB, Chapter 118.) In Freud’s terms, Desolations are super-ego-repressed compulsions of the id that periodically resurface. Cultivation “prunes” for long-term growth. This is the ego’s role: Freud says the ego is like a rider seeking to guide and restrain a willful horse (the id): “The super-ego's demands often oppose the id’s, so the ego sometimes has a hard time in reconciling the two….” (Source.) IMO, Cultivation created Radiant spren (through the Nightwatcher) as super-ego-like cultural ideals to help bind society, the antidote to basic instinctual drives. I think the Freudian mind analogy is interesting even if Brandon doesn’t intend it. The words “fiery surge,” “red lightning and impetuous rage,” and “desolation, void of light,” appear within eight lines of each other in John Milton’s description of Hell. (Paradise Lost, Book 1, lines 173-181.) Does Brandon intend that allusion? You don’t always know with authors. @Bigmikey357 gave me the idea for this topic when he said, “So basically Odium was Adonalsium’s id before they split up.” If you like the idea, credit him.
  5. I was walking around listening to music and thinking about the Stormlight Archive a thought struck me that I can't get out of my head. In OB Ch. 57 when Dalinar meets Odium and he says he's not afraid of him and Odium shows him all the fires that represent Passion and the core violet flame that is Hatred. When Dalinar comes to he still sees the violet fire in Odium's eyes. I can't help, but score this scene to "In Your Eyes" by Peter Gabriel. The song compares romantic passion in another's eyes to religion and I think of how Dalinar mistook Odium for Tanavast/The Almight when he first met Odium (even though he already met Tanavast who introduced himself as The Almighty in a vision Dalinar experienced ... 3 times, pay attention Dalinar!) Days pass and this emptiness fills my heart All my instincts, they return And the grand facade, so soon will burn In your eyesThe light the heatIn your eyesI am completeIn your eyesI see the doorway to a thousand churchesIn your eyesThe resolution of all the fruitless searchesIn your eyesI see the light and the heatIn your eyesOh, I want to be that completeI want to touch the lightThe heat I see in your eyes
  6. I went through my OB notes and came up with some ideas I’d like to let loose. Others may have anticipated them, but if so, I didn’t notice your posts. Please take your credit. IS MRAIZE A DYSIAN? Random reasons provoke this question: 1. Spy Network. Mraize and the Ghostbloods seem as informed as any group on Roshar. We know Dysians use their hordelings as spies. 2. Unseen Actions. Mraize delivers his messages to Shallan completely unnoticed. It’s as if he disassembles then reassembles in her room where he writes his notes. 3. Mraize’s Face. Mraize’s scarred face may mask his Dysian imperfections. Here’s how Shallan describes him at their first meeting: The second time Shallan meets Mraize, she observes “his scarred face, misaligned lip, and weathered hands… he looked like someone who had repeatedly had his bones broken….” (WoR, Chapter 54, Kindle p. 628.) 4. Mraize’s Age. Mraize calls Veil “child,” like Hoid calls Shallan and Jezrien (Ahu) calls Dalinar. This appellation surprises Shallan, since she made Veil appear older: This suggests (but doesn’t prove) Mraize may be pretty old himself. (He does call Shalash “Ancient One,” but that seems more respect than an indication of relative age.) Mraize as a Dysian also explains his contact with other Shardworlds – @Overlord Jebus theorizes (correctly IMO) that Dysian hordelings will foster inter-Shardworld communication. Of course, Mraize could also be a Hoid masquerade, but for now I’ll stick with a Dysian “from Thaylenah.” AN HONORSPREN OATH? Notum tells Kaladin, “’I’ve sworn an oath myself,’ the captain said. ‘To Honor, and to the truths we follow.’” (OB, Chapter 108, Kindle p. 1017.) This causes me to wonder: Must honorspren swear an oath to become an honorspren? Is it a rite of passage like confirmation? Do some “honorspren” refuse to vow? Are these the mistspren that sail the Honor’s Path? NALE’S FIFTH OATH Nale has spoken the Fifth Skybreaker Oath, which he says means he has become “the Law.” This seems wrong. Nale’s Divine Attribute is “Just,” which means he should embody Justice, not the Law. Instead, Nale derides Justice as inferior because mercy leads to recidivism: KR orders share their Herald’s Divine Attributes. Radiant spren IMO are attracted to people with the right Primary Divine Attribute – “protect” (Honorspren), “just” (Highspren), “brave” (Ashspren), “loving” (Cultivationspren), “learned” (Truthwatcher spren), “creative” (Cryptics), “wise” (Inkspren), “resolute” (Lightspren), “dependable” (Stoneward spren), and “pious” (the three Siblings). Radiant spren are living exemplars of these Attributes. I believe the Fifth Oath fully manifests Radiant spren in the Physical Realm. They merge Spiritwebs with their bonded mortal, who becomes the living exemplar of their Primary Divine Attribute. Nale should be Justice, not the Law. Since he thinks he’s the Law, I suspect Lift did not fully heal him. IS TIMBRE ICO’S DAUGHTER? Timbre may be Ico’s daughter. Ico is the captain of the spren ship that picks up Kaladin, Shallan, Adolin, etc. at Riino’s Shadesmar lighthouse. Ico is a Lightspren, the Willshaper spren. He tells Kaladin, “My daughter used to work [at the Celebrant moneychangers] before she ran off chasing stupid dreams.” (OB, Chapter 101, Kindle p. 948.) Something about that line sounds like Timbre is his daughter and ran off, like Syl did, to bond with a mortal. Maybe her “stupid dream” is to be first to bond a Singer. That’s something a Lightspren might want to explore. Timbre attunes to “Resolution” quite a bit, the Willshaper Primary Divine Attribute. HONOR AND ODIUM’S POWER I still believe Honor’s power “makes Connections” and Odium’s power “breaks Connections.” On Roshar that generally means “people” Connections. I think the Dalinar-Venli vision shows the full extent of the powers’ difference: Odium breaks. Honor binds. Threnody Spoiler That’s what I got for now.
  7. So i ran into this interesting WoB. Tho Cultivation wasn't mentioned here so maybe he is only more worried about Harmony simply because he is a Shard compared to both Hoid/Dalinar. Still interesting nonetheless that he is more worried of Harmony who is so far away who probably doesn't even have plans involving him(or maybe he does with Hoid's letter and he has Kandra's spying on that place) than the actual people causing him problems upfront. Or is it about overconfidence but he isn't that confident enough against Harmony (cause he is a relatively unknown vessel who just randomly joined the game) ? Personally while i do subscribe on the theory that Autonomy may likely be the big bad. It is interesting to find WoB that push the hype of a possible confrontation between the two bigs of Cosmere. Thoughts ?
  8. So we know that Dalinar will eventually have to face Odium's champion, and who that will be is not yet known. But do we know whether Dalinar himself will actually fight? Or rather appoint his own champion? Dalinar is still a capable warrior yes, particularly with stormlight to aid him, but he's getting older now. He may opt to have someone, such as Kaladin, serve as his champion against Odium's. However, Dalinar is a bondsmith and the Stormfather mentions on at least one occasion that he has the most powerful of the surges, so perhaps Dalinar has an advantage there. Even if he were to fight himself, what weapon would he use? He wouldn't have a shardblade, unless that is when the stormfather finally gives in on that matter. Perhaps he could use one of the honorblades? I believe Vyre now has Jezrien's, but if Dalinar could get hold of one of the honorblades then he would have a shard and hopefully new surges to play around with. But still, how will he face his enemy do we think? The nine shadows of Odium's champion sounds dangerously like a reference to the unmade (perhaps somehow fused into the one champion?). So even with a blade and possibly two extra surges, how could he even hope to defeat his enemy? I realise I am not very familiar with the deeper lore of these books, but that's why I'm here asking questions, right? Anyway, I welcome your thoughts.
  9. Lunchbreak re-read of the Prelude in WoK Kalak thinks this was one of the worst desolations. Yet 9 of the 10 heralds survived. Does anyone think it's possible that Odium somehow gave orders to his army to avoid killing the Heralds this time? Maybe he brokem them enough to expect they would leave the Pact Taln was still killed. Maybe his penchant for lost causes was too much to avoid. Maybe Odium intentionally wanted time alone to break the only unbroken Herald. Is Ishar just crazy now or could he have broken enough to be in Odium's pocket back then, suggesting that leaving Taln would be enough? Essentially, is it possible the "Last" Desolation was a long con by Odium rather than a fortunate happenstance of the only Herald able to hold being the one to go back
  10. Alrighty so this theory does not hold much water but I have not seen it anywhere else and I would like to spark discussion. So we know from a recent wob that Ambition’s Vessel was a Sho Del. I for one had always speculated this was the case as the name seemed atypical compared to most of the vessels who have been name dropped. That said it occurred to me, whilst I reminisced on my hunt for the Sho Del shard or shards, that perhaps Aona and Skai were Sho Del by no other reason than my warped perception of their names and the fact that Rayse wanted them out of the way along with Uli Da. So the theory is that Odium is hunting the Sho Del shards for reasons unknown. I’d love to hear your thoughts and criticisms!
  11. Just fleshing this one out. Im not very realmatic and I think this pushes the boundaries of what we know so I thought you guys could help (expand, denounce, enjoy, etc). To start with I want to point out the importance of perception in the Cosmere, especially where investiture is invloved. And also consider Odium has already convinced at least one civilization he is Passion - ok, talking about the Fuzed and ancient singers and I known he didnt get all of them, but they are an invested people so maybe this "hack" works better with them.. Also is this the only culture hes integrated with as "Passion" i wonder? Now the big Q: what if Odium is using "Passion" to gain "access" to more investiture? Now im not saying that there's no passion in hatred, but I do want to point out Passion isnt an emotion dedicated to hate alone - especially when looking at other Shards intents. Have a look at the shards Odium has already broken and consider the potential "passion" involved with their intent. Hmmm, i wonder if a Vessaless shard is easier to "access"..? Now back to the question, im not trying to suggest Odium is doing this for more power as it has been stated a few times he does not want anothers intent to influence him. Im thinking more abstractly regarding what this "access" intales. For example if someone invokes passion it gives the big O a window to view them, and knowledge for a General in wartime is quite important. Thats just an example, what do we think? !~ HIF ~!
  12. I must be a simpleton. Three simple words: "we killed you". I don't understand any of them. I splintered Honor ("you" = Honor; "we" = Odium + minions and/or traitors; "killed" = Splintering of Honor and maybe subsequent death of Tanavast): Obvious. But Odium doesn't seem like the most likely to be sharing credit with what he probably sees as lesser contributors. And Dalinar didn't say he was Honor. He said he was Unity. We Shards splintered Honor ("you" = Honor; "we" = Odium + another Shard; "killed" as above): Also obvious. What other Shard? Nepene suggested Autonomy below. Cultivation and Honor are local, but surprising possibilities given what we understand of their motivations. But why did Dalinar say he was Unity? Our group Shattered Adonalsium ("you" = Adonalsium; Implicitly "we" = Rayse + other actors; "killed" = Shattering of Adonalsium): Does that mean that Dalinar reminds him of Adonalsium? Is Unity the same as Adonalsium? Is Dalinar rebuilding Adonalsium? Why does Syl think it's Honor's Perpendicularity? Because Honor was part of Adonalsium and she didn't know Adonalsium? Dalinar and I killed Evi ("you" = Evi; "we" = Odium + Dalinar; "killed" = normal human death): Fifth of Daybreak proposed this below. The "we" makes sense. I assume that the voice is Evi and she has lingered somehow, rather than traveling beyond. But does Odium even know about the communication between what I presume to be Evi and Dalinar? Why would Odium focus on a long-dead pawn in the face of a presence of something that sees him as small that he is apparently unwilling to face? In context, wouldn't Odium be addressing what's in front of him? Dalinar's anger and I overcame Dalinar's responsible, growing self ("you" = new, controlled Dalinar; "we" = Odium + Dalinar's anger; "killed" = human internal transformation): Crimson Not Blood suggests this below. Autonomy and I splintered Unity: mirianme proposes this on the second page. A related issue is what Dalinar is becoming and what is influencing him. It seems awkward to include here. Is the god beyond encouraging Dalinar to unite the Shards? What did Tanavast's unity charge in the vision mean? Unite the human nations? Unite the humans and the parsh? Or is Tanavast also encouraging him to unite the Shards? Was Tanavast under the influence of what Dalinar is perceiving? Does this deserve it's own thread or should I try to include it? You guys have already provided other explanations. Let's figure this out as well as we can!
  13. From the album SA Fanart by FelCandy

    Smol Odium doodle Watercolor 6x4
  14. On Roshar, the people believe seeing the future is evil. The few instances we've seen of foresight are associated with Odium. At a recent signing, Brandon said this: I find the bolded part where he trails off to be amazingly fascinating. Given the rest of the conversation, I propose that seeing the future is dangerous because of the following possibilities: 1. It draws the attention of the Shard (or its agents as explained below) that is powering the foresight. 2. It is heavily influenced by the intent or motives of the Shard that's powering it. 3. It's an ability granted by the Shard on purpose in order to manipulate events toward a future that the Shard (or its agents) desires. 4. It aligns you to the intent or motives of the Shard. This can be short-term (see atium below) or long-term. Repeated uses may cause a more lasting efect. 5. There's also the always-present conundrum of trying to change the future after you've seen it. Without context, you have no idea if changing your actions will cause that future or if not changing your actions will cause that future. The true answer could be any of the above, none of the above, or some combination of the options I've given. In order to evaluate possibilities, I've discussed the instances we've seen of people seeing the future, either as a summary, or as specific text, or links. Atium: We know how atium fuels Allomancy. It lets you see a few moments into the future. It also increases your mental and physical capabilities in order to take advantage of that knowledge. Sazed speculates in one of the HoA epigraphs that This appears to correlate to possibility 4--That seeing the future via atium temporarily aligned a person toward Ruin, the essence of entropy toward destruction. It might also explain why, after using atium as a metal mind and burning it for so long, TLR had such Ruinous impulses--mass slaughters, willingness to let the nobility destroy each other, etc, etc. After a thousand years of compounding atium, it's likely that he was very Connected to Ruin. It might also tie into possibility 3, assuming the possibility of Ruin wanting Rashek to become such a despot that he's overthrown just as the Well is about to fill, opening the way for Vin to take and release the power. Endowment: Endowment appears to be able to see some of the future, and sometimes her Splinters, the Returned, can pick up on this as well. We see this in Warbreaker, when Lightsong has his dreams and visions of T'Telir burning. She appears to send her Returned back in order to do a specific task (or set of tasks) based on what she sees, giving rise to possibility 3. Endowment apparently wanted the Hallandren and Idrians to persist, and sent back some of her Returned to help prevent the coming destruction. She probably has multiple contingency plans for if one of them dies before his or her task is accomplished. Wyrn: In the Elantris Annotations Brandon says: And Given that the Seons are Splinters of Devotion, (Love) and the Skaze are Splinters of Dominion, it seems like the Skaze are manipulating Wyrn in order to achieve their goals (Goals hinted at in the new epilogue in the 10th Anniversary Edition of Elantris) , tying back to possibility 3. Devotion and Dominion are both splintered, but the Skaze may retain enough of Dominion's intent to want to have complete dominion over the world (or maybe re-assemble Dominion?). And we come to the Stormlight Archive! We have more examples of foresight in SA than we have in any other book. There are three primary examples of it: Moelach: On the bridge between life and death, Moelach grants visions of the future, that the person utters in a cryptic and strange way, a phenomenon coined as Death Rattle. We don't really understand much about how this works, but the Death Rattles have been startlingly accurate, if incredibly obscure, so far. However. Moelach is a Splinter of Odium (along with the other Unmade). The Death Rattles we've seen so far all seem to be related either to the conflict between Odium and most of Roshar, or related to the people that are in that struggle. I have no absolute proof of this, but it's not a wild assumption (imo) to think that Odium, via Moelach, is using the Death Rattles to affect people's behavior. I realize this is putting conclusion before evidence, but I feel that it's a credible conclusion. Moelach is one of the mindless Unmade, as far as we know, so he's unlikely to have motives of his own. As a Splinter of Odium, Odium must have created him for a reason. We know Odium has a pretty good grasp of possible futures. Creating an Unmade to give people glimpses of the future (in a rather morbid way) to get them serving his purposes isn't beyond the realm of possibility. Renarin: We know very little about how Renarin's abilities work, and what types of things he can see, or how they will affect events. We know that his spren, Glys, is a Truthwatcher spren corrupted by Sja-Anat, another Splinter of Odium, and that Glys is likely what grants Renarin the ability to see the future. Renarin has seen Jasnah killing him. This would end him as a Radiant and as a Kholin. I confess, I am unsure what purpose his death would serve in Odium's cause. However, Renarin also saw Dalinar turning into Odium's champion. This would obviously be quite a desirable outcome for Odium. Given that Renarin has done a few things in order to try and warn about or prevent the things he sees, did he, consciously, or subconsciously, take actions that helped to bring that set of events into reality? We don't know yet what effects this might have, so I'm unsure which of the above categories this could fit into. The Diagram: Taravangian believes that he wrong the Diagram out of pure human capability and insight, rather than foresight. However, according to this WoB: As we know, in the Spiritual Realm, all times and places are essentially one. Seeing into the future in all other instances has been seeing into the Spiritual Realm. If Taravangian was closer to the Spiritual Realm than the Cognitive Realm, then he's likely incorporating at least some parts of what he sees in the Spiritual Realm into the Diagram. What we've seen him do so far has seemed to align him toward Odium's desires and motives. However, he was granted this ability by Cultivation, who is at odds with Odium. There was a lively discussion in this thread about the Diagram being a plant (pun intended) put in place by Cultivation. That T's actions, although they seem at odds with Dalinar+co, actually are meant to help them; and that T himself is unaware of this. As you can tell, I subscribe to this theory myself. This would fit in with possibilities 2, 3 and 4 above. Cultivation seems very crafty and careful, playing the long game with Dalinar, with Lift, and probably with T. And finally, we have Hoid. He has an ability to know where he needs to be at any given time. We don't really know most of his motives, so there's no way to determine what "where he needs to be" means, exactly. We're also very unsure as to how he knows to be in those places. We do know he uses something similar to Chromium Feruchemy in order to tap Fortune, but possibly isn't Feruchemy itself. We don't know what Shard he draws on, what intent that Shard might have, or if it's even a Shard at all. If someone can manage to tap directly into the Spiritual Realm without intervention from a Shard, it seems like Hoid would be the one. I'm also sure he's self-aware enough to know when/if he's being manipulated by whatever power he's using. So in short, I have no conclusions to draw about Hoid's abilities, other than a reiteration of his own speech to Shallan: There's always the risk, in seeing the future, of bringing about the exact consequence you want to prevent. That might be the simple answer to this entire question. Won't my face be red if it is! So, there is my long winded theory about the dangers of seeing the future. Please feel free to add to it or rip it to pieces, and thanks for reading!
  15. I'm wondering: is it possible the "Sibling" was twisted and broken up into the unmade? We have this about the unmade from the Arcanum: Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) 1) The Nightwatcher and Stormfather are parallel entities such that Nighwatcher:Cultivation :: Stormfather:Honor. 2) There is sort of a parallel for Odium, but the parallel is the various Unmade instead of a single entity. 3) They are parallel in that they are all Splinters. 4) The Unmade are voluntary Splinters, because Odium ("like almost all of the other Shards") voluntarily Splintered part of it's power. 5) The Stormfather is different from the others because it's a Sliver. source So Odium voluntarily Splintered part of its power into the Sibling, then somehow the Sibling splinters into the Unmade (probably parallel or similar to the splintering of Adonalsium). On Roshar, there is one splinter for Honor (the Stormfather) and one for Cultivation (the Nightwatcher). Why would Odium have nine splinters (the unmade)? We know there is a sibling, but if the sibling is Odium's splinter, then where do the unmade fit in? In my mind, it's possible the Unmade were once one splinter: the sibling. Given that Dalinar has imprisoned the Thrill, I'm also wondering if uniting the Unmade will become a goal of his. Certainly sabotaging the Heralds and the Unmade are part of the war against each other, but if Dalinar can remove all the Unmade from the playing field by uniting them back together... Disclaimer: I searched "unmade+sibling+unite+dalinar" and still got over 1,000 results on the forums. This theory seemed different enough from the ones I read - I know there are a few threads regarding things Dalinar needs to unite, and what/who the Unmade are, and who the Sibling is, but none actually seemed to put them together. Regardless, I apologize if this has already been discussed!
  16. Hey team, I apologise in advance if this post isn't particularly well laid out - I have little time at the moment and a thought just struck me so I wanted to get it down before I forget about it, and I don't know if this has been discussed before or already theorized (I had a quick look and couldn't find a mention of it). I agree with @Calderis that there are three specific magic systems that operate in three different ways. I also agree that the fused have not been Voidbinding currently. Essentially the theory is that how magic on Roshar works is that: A) Surgebinding is the system of magic through which the fundamental forces of nature are manipulated through the filter of Honor and Cultivation Fabrials is the system of magic through which these forces of nature can be trapped, stored and then used (this one I am less confident about and would be interested C) Voidbinding is the system of magic through which the fundamental forces of nature are manipulated through the filter of odium. This, especially the Voidbinding postulation, I base on the WOB below. Linked to this, if we consider that Voidbinding is the accessing of the fundamental laws of creation and forces (as per the quote) through Odium, then because humans were originally of odium, and we know that they destroyed their previous home, I believe that humans used Voidbinding to destroy Ashyn. This fundamentally would suggest that humans were the original Voidbinders. This would also tie in nicely to them being the Voidbringers. So to conclude quickly: Voidbinding is the accessing of the forces of creation through the filter of odium and humans were the original voidbinders who used voidbinding to destroy Ashyn.
  17. I admit right off the bat that at this point this is almost entirely a matter of conjecture, since there isn't really a shred of hard evidence for it one way or another, but I thought I'd put it out there and see what everyone thinks. As per Oathbringer, we know that the Unmade Sja-anat wants to defect from Odium (or at least that's what she has claimed, and for the sake of argument I'm just going to assume that this isn't merely a ploy and that she is being genuine), and that she seemingly aided Kaladin, Adolin and Shallan by preventing the Oathgate she had corrupted from killing them. And that got me thinking: Sja-anat, along with the other Unmade, are supposedly Splinters of Odium's power that gained sentience (at least in the case of some of the Unmade) or else were deliberately created by Odium, which should mean that they would share Odium's general nature, but from what we've seen this doesn't appear to necessarily be the case with Sja-anat; she seems to be fighting to free herself from Odium's influence. Ironically, it would almost seem like the corrupter is itself corrupted, or at least in the process of it. So if this is true, and admittedly this does depend on a number of unproven assumptions, it begs the question of what exactly could be behind this. Honor? Possibly, though I personally don't think so, because corrupting Sja-anat so as to make her betray Odium doesn't really seem like it would be consistent with what we know of Honor's nature. Cultivation? Again, possible, and in my opinion far more likely than Honor. But what if it's another Shard altogether? A Shard who most people assume is an ally (albeit probably in a very loose way) of Odium and whose Shardic Intent would certainly seem to be compatible with 'corrupting' something with the desire for freedom and individuality. Might it be that Autonomy isn't quite as sympathetic to Odium's cause as she would have him believe? Like I said earlier, at this point this is purely conjecture. However, we do know that in spite of what she would have others believe, Autonomy has no qualms about meddling in the affairs of other worlds, including other worlds that have Shards, if we assume that she is the one behind the opposition of Harmony on Scadrial. So, is it really that big of a stretch to assume that maybe she's meddled on Roshar as well? Could it be that Autonomy is subtly opposing Odium by 'infecting' one of his greatest servants with a spark of her own power? At this point, I honestly don't know, and I'm by no means convinced of this (in fact, I honestly think it's probably more likely false than true). But it would have a certain poetic form of irony if it did turn out to be true.
  18. He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you. -Nietzsche Aphorism Part 1 Exterminating Parshmen In Words of Radiance the first assumption of Bridge Four after they eavesdrop on a conversation of Shallan warning Adolin of the Singers is to assume she wants to exterminate them all. In OB Jasnah makes this offhand comment: It`s in the sake of an argument, I know, but the extermination of all Singers is actually thinkable. If Parshmen genocide is thinkable for our heroes, then it might be more than thinkable for more shady people among the leaders of the Alethi like Ialai Sadeas. And the real war has not even started yet. Throughout OB the Parshmen are referred to as “monsters”. What do you do with monsters? You slay them. Additionally: the war against the Parshendi was ended by killing almost all Parshendi, why should the same trick not work on a grander scale? Part 2 Rebellious Parshmen The uprising of the Parshmen resembles a slave or peasant uprising. Slaves shove off their masters shackles and free themselves. You know how many slave/ peasant uprisings have been successful in western ancient and medieval history? Right, not a single one. They seized a lot of territory but were ultimately crushed, all of them. There are reasons for this. Slaves don`t have any fighting experience, masters have professional armies, that fought their entire lives. We see this at the battle of Thaylen the Sadeas armies would have totally crushed the Singer-army, even with support from the Fused and the beasts. And the Fused aren´t they these tactical geniuses? Yes they are, but there are only a few hundred of them and a lot of them have gone insane. Essentially the Singers are normal people like you and me trying to fight a professional boxer. Even if we had the best coach and the best strategy ever (the Fused/ Voidspren), we could never beat the professional boxer. Even if we trained every hour of every day for a year- we just could not. But the Parshmen have the numbers, don`t they? If you compare current army sizes, yes. But, ultimately, there are way more Humans on Roshar and in Alethkar than Singers. All these Humans in Alethkhar need Parshmen guardians to look after them. So they cannot bring their full army force to battle because they need to garrison all those towns and cities in Alethkar. Remember the mantra Shardbearers don`t hold any territory? Well the same goes for the Fused. Plus the Alethi have a giant pool of possible recruits in Jah Keved. So no, the Singers don´t have the numbers. Part 3 A war in Alethkar What does this mean? Well Odium simply needs Humans to change sides on a massive scale to win the war. He is deadly sure that he will win: Like, there is no possible way he could not. Therefore, he has to have a sure plan on how to turn most of the military establishment to his side. How will he do it? By persuading them that it is necessary, just and feels satisfying to exterminate all Parshmen they find. I think Dalinar`s flashback chapters gave us a hint at what the current Alethi ethics of war are like. It will be worse, if the enemy happens to be not even human/ is a “monster”. Plus, what will they see, if they enter Alethkar? Abused Humans. This will surely persuade them that a war of extermination is not only necessary, but emotionally justified. I imagine the debate on the conduct of the war will open a rift between House Kholin, Aladar, Sebarial and the others. Dalinar will urge upon a honorable conduct of war. The other Houses will see this first as a weak and soft hand approach, then as a betrayal. After a few decisive battles for the Alethi at the beginning of the war, the Fused will opt for a guerilla war strategy. By that time the other Houses will desert from House Kholin and follow a new leader, perhaps Ialai Sadeas. They will begin the extermination of all Parshmen and fight the Kholins. By that time they will be in Odium`s hands. The Vorin church will actively support them. Aren`t the Parshmen literally the Voidbringers? Aren`t they supposed to kill them according to their religion? Aren´t Queen Jasnah and Dalinar heretics? Aren`t the Knights Radiant traitors? What about that really powerful god that revealed himself and who says he loves us? He must be the Almighty right? This is how the Alethi as a nation will become the monsters they fought. Part 4 Odium`s children Odium regards Humans as his children: The same attitude goes for the dialogue with Taravangian. Odium does not actually want to kill all Humans, he wants to bring them into his fatherly arms. The Singers are treated pretty harshly by Odium and the Voidspren in OB, which is in stark contrast to how he treats Dalinar and Taravangian. Odium wants his beloved children to fight for him, just like it had been in ancient times, before Honor and the spren intervened. The Singers are just a tool to get his children to his side and always have been. Odium will throw them away, once they will have outlived their usefulness. (I posted an earlier version of this a few months ago, I hope you forgive me for opening a new thread)
  19. Recently I received a comment on my Oathbringer Lore video that started me down this particular rabbit hole. “I don’t get why Odium doesn’t take the power of the shards he kills.” (VREODe) Initially, this seemed easy to answer. Odium already has a purpose and intent that goes so well in line with the Vessel’s own intent and incorporating other shards would only muddle that intent further. But as I thought about the implications I realized that there is something that I was overlooking about the nature of Odium and the potential union that we might have overlooked. The power and intent of Ambition. [Credit to Botanica Xu who created Grandpa Odium, please follow the link and follow her on Tumbler] First let’s review why Odium would willingly pass up the power of a shattered shard. Harmony is the perfect example of the danger combining shards poses. While Harmony likely wields the greatest collective power in the Cosmere at the moment, he is also the most severely limited. In his letter to Hoid he expresses the growing struggles he has in acting upon the greater Cosmere due to the need to maintain the balance between two opposing shards. This seems to restrict him far more than the single shards ever were. His immense power might destroy him if he is not careful. It's easy to see that such a conflicting nature would be incredibly unappealing to a shard like Odium. He obviously has plans and intent to destroy or at least subdue the other powers of the Cosmere for his own ends. Perhaps he is just paranoid that he will fall like Adonalsium and seeks to eliminate any potential threats who have the investiture or knowledge to destroy him. In fact, the nature of events on Scadrial, where mortals ascend and destroy an established shard, likely haunt his dreams. This would explain Odium’s apparent terror when Dalinar created a perpendicularity. At that moment Dalinar became a sliver of something Odium thought destroyed and he fled. It seems clear to me that Odium fears to lose his power, and that fear motivates his actions. But what does this have to do with the death of Ambition? Brandon has said that the moment the shards scattered across the stars, Odium was targeting Ambition. Likely he foresaw Ambition as the most likely to challenge his rule and thus needed to be eliminated. Ambition wasn’t the first shard to fall, but eventually, Odium took her out. There are scraps of power left behind from that encounter, so we know the fight was figuratively bloody. After the downfall and splintering of Dominion and Devotion Odium left quite a mess of their investiture and the effects of his decision to lock the investiture in the Cognitive Realm has resulted in some unintended consequences. Perhaps he has refined his ability to kill shards since then, and he had another opportunity with Ambition. It is likely then to assume that the shattering of Ambition was far cleaner, and perhaps it will be difficult to determine what exactly happened until the events of that fight are canonized. But as I answered this question some small thoughts that had been floating around in my mind came back to me. Core questions that I couldn’t shake off. How was Odium able to fight and kill two shards that were united? Would the power of Ambition resonate with a man like Rayse who already had so much natural ambition? Has it ever been stated officially that Odium is just one shard? Devotion and Dominion were likely pitted against each other allowing Odium to bring them down due to their opposing natures. But Honor and Cultivation are not so opposed. The nature of their relationship was likely complicated but it didn’t seem as openly hostel as other pairings thus far. It seems odd that another equal albeit aggressive shard could sweep in and kill Honor. In fact, it seems to me that Honor and Cultivation sought to trap Odium to prevent his future rampaging. So, what happened? How did one defeat two? I think Odium secretly holds more than his share of power. What reason does he have to abandon the power of a defeated shard that matches his own intent so well? In physics, there are some curious effects that we can observe in the nature of sound waves. If you have two sound waves that have the same amplitude but inverted phase (antiphase), they will cancel each other out leaving a strange silence behind. This is observably similar to the nature of Ruin and Preservation, two similar yet opposing forces that cancel each other out. However, if you have two wavelengths of equal strength that are in phase they amplify into one more powerful wave. This is likely a parallel that can be drawn between two different shards. If opposed they cancel each other out. If in phase they can amplify. Based on the observed Cosmere, I doubt that Odium completely took all of Ambition’s power, it seems there were large splinters left behind at least on one world. But I sincerely doubt Odium would leave behind the power that would only bolster his intent and nature. It would explain why he has become such a danger to the Cosmere that Hoid seeks to gather the other shards against him. Remember Odium destroyed Honor and seeks to destroy Cultivation so he can break free of the Rosharian system. The other shards might only be safe currently because Odium has been trapped on Roshar for so long. Naturally, there is little support for this theory, and I’m likely wrong about this. Perhaps Odium would be too paranoid of corrupting his own power base to incorporate even a portion of another shard. Yet there are some observations that I can make that imply that I might be right about this. For instance, it is interesting that on Threnody the fragment of ambition seems to create cognitive shadows of the deceased that can act of their own accord, something that seems prevalent in the forces of Odium and the fused. Is it hard to believe that the power to infuse the remains of the dead into service is a power that Odium acquired rather than developed? To me, it seems far too likely to be a coincidence and the temptation of Ambition’s power far too great to be ignored.
  20. A couple of precursors: I haven't really written much on this website before, so apologies if I don't know how to tag spoilers, do quotes, explain myself intelligently, etc. If someone else has already talked about this, I apologize for stepping on your toes. I'm not always on the site so I don't know what I might have missed. This is kind of two topics, but they tie together in my mind. Apologies in advance if it seems disjointed to you. With that out of the way, I wanted to talk about the similarities between Ruin and Odium, and-- more importantly-- speculate about what those similarities might mean and why they might exist. The idea that started me thinking this was Odium and Ruin's interesting use of the word passion. As most of us know, Odium tries to convince Dalinar that his intent is about more than just hate, but passion as a whole: “They call me Odium,” the old man said. “A good enough name. It does have a certain bite to it. But the word is too limiting to describe me, and you should know that it is not all I represent.” “Which is?” He looked to Dalinar. “Passion, Dalinar Kholin. I am emotion incarnate. I am the soul of the spren and of men. I am lust, joy, hatred, anger, and exultation. I am glory and I am vice. I am the very thing that makes men men. Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 551). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. I noticed as I was rereading the Hero of Ages that Ruin says something similar: “This work I do, it’s about passion, Vin. It’s about dynamic events; it’s about change! That is why you and your Elend are so important to me. People with passion are people who will destroy— Sanderson, Brandon. Mistborn Trilogy (Kindle Locations 30922-30923). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. Note especially the way the word is written in both cases: italicized. Outside the Alcatraz series, Brandon rarely uses italics for emphasis. The fact that both these characters would talk about their passion in this italicized way really stuck out to me. I thought that I might just be overthinking a small coincidence, but then I came across this WoB: Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Was it relevant that Ruin mentioned Passion to Vin? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Yes. source So now that I knew it was an important connection, I started to look into other ways that Ruin and Odium are similar other than just the way they talk about their intent. Some other possibilities that I came with: They are both vessels. This is obvious, but easy to overlook. Maybe all vessels just feel this way about their intent. Both had plans to cause cosmere wide destruction. Odium, with his "hit list" of other vessels, and Ruin, because his intent would have driven him to continue to destroy other planets after Scadrial was no more. They have both spent time being trapped (Ruin in the prison Preservation created, Odium trapped by the Oathpact) Both tried to forge "champions" that ended up working against them. Brandon says in the annotations to the Hero of Ages that for some unknown reason Preservation had chosen Vin from a young age, and that ruin worked to corrupt Vin after Preervation chose her (Annotation Chapter 79). Similarly, Honor for unknown reasons gave visions to the Kholins (starting with Gavilar, I know). All the while, Odium was hard at work trying to corrupt Dalinar and turn him into his champion. Interestingly enough, both of these individuals ascended and used their power to fight against the force that had tried to turn them. Probably lots of other important/relevant connections I'm too tired to think of at the moment. Since I was curious about the first bullet above-- that maybe all shards just act this way-- I decided to ask Brandon the following questions last Saturday: Valhalla [PENDING REVIEW] Ruin and Odium, they both talked about their passion, and it was italicized both times. Would any other Shards talk about passion in that same italicized way? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Yes they would. Valhalla [PENDING REVIEW] Would any of them not talk about it that way? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Yes they would. Excellent, good questions. source This made it very clear that the passion connection is not an inherent thing that all vessels share, nor is it something that is unique to Ruin and Odium. So, what do all the similarities between Ruin and Odium actually mean? And how does passion play into it? I'd love to hear your theories, because frankly none of the ideas I have come up with seem to add up, but I will throw out a few ideas to get the discussion started. Theory #1: They are both being acted upon by an outside force One theory that I developed is that they are both somehow being controlled/manipulated by the same outside force. There are a few problems with this. The first is that vessels like Rayse and Ati both have a lot of raw power and a large amount of knowledge and cosmere awareness, making them difficult to manipulate. The only beings who seem capable of manipulating a vessel would be another vessel. However, its possible that because both Ruin and Odium have been trapped with at least a portion of their full power made temporarily unavailable to them that they have been left in a state in which they would be more suggestible or otherwise duped. This still doesn't explain who would want to do it, how they would accomplish it, and why they would make both Ruin and Odium so focused on their passion. So, yeah, this theory is very much a work in progress. Theory #2: Ruin and Odium were working together So this theory relies on kind of a stretch to the answers to my questions; basically, that you can split all vessels into two groups: those who have passion, and those that don't. The passionate vessels like Ruin, Odium, and apparently others decided to group up to help accomplish their goals, especially those goals that the non-passionates might have attempted to stop. While doing so, they realize that they are more than just one intent, but that they are also a force of Passion in their worlds. They also realize that the names assigned to their intents, like ruin or odium, tend to have negative connotations and so when they interact with humans they tend to bring forth their passion instead. This theory works on a logical level, but it doesn't work on a storytelling level. I doubt Ati and Rayse are just repeating the mantra from their support group for passionate shards. There has to be more to it than that. Theory #3: Insert your theory here I had a couple more ideas, but they all have even bigger holes than the ones I mentioned. This would be easier if we had a third shard that we knew would describe itself as passion, so that we could make more connections. I am interested to hear your thoughts. Why does it matter that both Ruin and Odium talk about passion in italics? What shards have we met that would be passionate? What theories do you have about the connections between these two shards? And finally, does the fact that I stayed up to 2 A.M. on a weekday to write and research this post because I'm so passionate about this particular cosmere puzzle indicate that I, like Ruin and Odium, am a major antagonist intent on causing chaos and destruction throughout the known universe?
  21. Hey guys. So I recently made what I thought would be just a lame joke post on the Stormlight Archive Facebook group, but to my surprise it pretty much went viral in terms of liked. So I can’t resist posting it here too; please don’t think I’m TOO much of a nerd. Here’s how the confrontation between Hoid and Odium would go: "Can you hear them? All these people who’ve lived in terror of you and your hatred. All these people who have devoted themselves, sacrificed themselves against you... can you hear their defiance? Oh, you like to think you're a god, but you're not a god, you're just a parasite eaten out with jealousy and envy and longing for the lives of others - you feed on them! On the memories of guilt and loss and fear and death and pain and sorrow, so... so, come on then. Take mine. Take my pain! But I hope you have a big appetite, because I have lived a long life and I have seen a few things. I walked away from the the last great Shattering. I marked the passing of Adonalsium. I saw the birth of the Cosmere and I watched as time ran out, moment by moment until nothing remained - no humans, no spren, just me! I walked on worlds where the laws of magic were devised by the mind of a mad Shard! I’ve watched Shardworlds freeze and creations burn! I have seen things you wouldn't believe! I have lost things you will never understand! And I know things: secrets that must never be told, knowledge that must never be spoken! Knowledge that will make parasite Shards blaze! So come ooooonnn then! Take it! Take it all! Have it! You have it all!!!" *Odium implodes* The end. Oh come on, someone had to do it someday. lol.
  22. On Roshar there are 9 Splinters of Odium whose function is similar to Honor's Heralds. The Unmade, harbingers of chaos and calamity. But at the end of OB we saw on screen that they can be captured in much the same manner as the spren used for fabrials. It requires a perfect gemstone, a person who's naturally attractive to the particular Unmade to draw it in, and someone who is strong willed enough resist its influence. This post will attempt to match Unmade with characters likely to succeed in capturing them. Of course this list is incomplete since we don't yet know the function of all the Unmade. For some of these I'll try to speculate but naturally this is open to commentary. Known Capure Capacity The two Unmade we know align with certain characters as revealed in OB. Nergaoul - Dalinar (captured) Re-Shepir - Shallan (capture capable) Speculative Capture Capable Characters These are based on what we know of the Unmade, matched to a character that alligns to its function, however loosely Moelach (Death Rattles) - Renarin Ashertmarn (Heart of the Revel) - Lyft (tenuous connection due to her love of food) Unknown Capacity These are the Unmade that we know hardly anything about besides a name. More information needed to determine an alignment. -Chemoarish (Dustmother) -Dai-Gonarthis (Black Fisher) Questioned Capacity These are Unmade of whose function is reasonably certain, but ones for who character alignment is little more than guesswork. - Yelig-Nar (Blightwind) - Has already consumed Amaram and Aseudan. Grants all Surges in exchange for a loss of form. - Sja-Anat - A corruptor of Spren. May remain uncaptured because she is trying to defect. A Spy type would be most likely alignment. - Bo-Ado-Mishram - Odium's General. Grants Voidlight. Was previously captured by Bondsmith Melishi. Due to power, may need to be aligned to another Bondsmith to be recaptured. (Was she released or is she still trapped?)
  23. In OB at the end of part 2, something happened that made me think there is more going on with Lift and Odium: Immediately following this is when Lift pokes her head up from behind the rocks and starts talking to Dalinar about Odium. Was Odium simply surprised that Lift had broken in to the vision with them, or is there something more? Odium doesn't strike me as someone who gets caught off guard very often. There's a lot we don't know about Lift... so is there some reason that Odium would be scared of Lift?
  24. Ok here’s my theory: odium has two magic systems one is voidbinding, it involves bonding his spren and was made post his arrival with humans on Roshar. This one was made to model the investiture and magic system used on Roshar by honor and cultivation. The other was what humans had on their original home planet and prob. Is as diff from anything we’ve seen as the magic in Roshar differs from that on Scadrial. This is the stuff the dawnshards r made of. My main textual support from this is based on what I noticed in ars arcanum in which the radiant surges are graphed and then underneath it says some thing about her not being certain how voidbinding or its cousin old magic fit into this paradigm or indeed at all.(sorry don’t remember it’s exact wording. I first thought this refers to magic pre shattering from adonasolum but realized then why doesn’t she know it? Also in what way is it the cousin to the arts of voidbinding? I currently understand it to refer to magic before Roshar which is odiums and thus a cousin to voidbinding. what I like about this is that I think it fits nicely that once on Roshar odium changed his magic a bit to steak from what honor and cultivation had going. I also like that it makes the human designation of parshendi as voidbringers accurate. Yes the humans were the invaders yes they brought odium but no, only the parshendi voidbind. That’s because odium never succeeded in having humans take in voidspren until oathbringer (that’s what it says in the book. I always understood this to be because they were to diff. From humans to bond but parshendi could receive them in their gemhearts and be controlled only a human racket bond which is in the cracks of their soul needs to “fit”) ehat do u guys think
  25. After the shattering, Odium splintered and killed the holders of (at least) three shards before arriving on Roshar. In the various timelines for the Cosmere I have seen constructed, Odium is always said to have splintered Devotion and Dominion on Sel first, and then mortally wounded Ambition in the Threnodite system before Ambition was fully splintered, almost certainly by Odium, elsewhere (see, e.g. here, for example). Is there any WOB or anything that substantiates this order, because, based on the system overviews in AU, I presumed Odium went after and splintered Ambition before he went to Sel. Concerning Ambition, the Thredodite System overview says: Concerning Devotion and Dominion, the Selish System overview says: The Selish System article, also suggests that there was a fairly substantial period of time that Devotion and Dominion were on Sel before being destroyed, at least in human terms. There is no such suggestion in in the Threnodite Sytem article, though the coppermind article on Ambition makes it sound as though this was the case, or at least that there had been significant enough investiture once on Threnody to suggest it, all albeit without citations backing it up. It sounds to me, all told, that Odium went after Ambition first, soon after the shattering, and then went to Sel after Devotion and Dominion had been there for a fairly significant amount of time, at least from a human perspective. I think this is reinforced by the fact that Odium didn't defeat and Splinter Ambition outright, and that she was able to run away first after being mortally wounded. This suggests to me that Odium was still just figuring out how to splinter and not just kill the holders of other shards. I think Mistborn Secret history also suggested that splintering other shards was something shards had to learn, and that Ruin hadn't learned it, which was what allowed Kelsier, then Vin, then Sazed to take up preservation. Is there a reason to believe Odium went to Sel before going after Ambition, rather than after? If so, can you please share it? Thanks