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Found 30 results

  1. Hey everyone! Here’s my latest Cosmere piece! Contains spoilers for SA 1-4. Stick around after the credits below to get the backstory on this song. Lead vocals, piano, acoustic guitar, drums, bass, trombone choir, strings, male choir: Joe Byerly Syl's vocals, female choir: Sharon Byerly Mixing, mastering, electric guitars, percussion and choir VST's: Infamoti - Artwork: Pam Hage - Queen of Eagles Download links: WAV: MP3: _____________ To be honest, when I first read The Way of Kings in 2013, I loved but didn't understand Kaladin. He seemed... beyond me, somehow. As his backstory unfolded, I realized how little we had in common at that time in my life; I settled into a good place where I really enjoyed watching him grow and change, accepting that I could invest myself in a character's story without having to fully understand his experiences. In the summer of 2019, my wife became pregnant for the first time in our marriage. We had been married 7 years, 6 of which had been spent trying to grow our family. Weeks later, that child died in the womb from unknown causes. I suddenly understood a little of Kaladin's pain; I was unable to protect my unborn child. We struggled for a year, wrestling with ourselves and God, days blurring into weeks, then months, as we sank into depression. We were surrounded by people who loved, held and heard us, but it took a long time to even begin to move forward from the silence, the grief and the loss. As we slowly crept out into the light again, we chose to trust that continuing the journey as unashamedly broken people was better than pulling the covers over our heads for the rest of our lives. We went to counseling, examined our faith on deeper levels, and spent lots of time with friends and family, sharing what had happened to us and soaking up the encouragement and love of others. In the fall of 2020, months before the birth of our daughter Jane, the chorus of Windrunner began to take shape. I wrote this song to help me move forward in my journey; I hope it helps others as much as it helped me.
  2. Yesterday, I decided to try to make my best guess as to the 5th Oath of the Windrunners. The Second and Third are about when to protect, that is, protecting those who can't protect themselves, even if you hate them. The Fourth is, in part, when to stop protecting, or to accept that sometimes you can't. My thought is that the Fifth is when to stop protecting altogether, to let them protect themselves. I don't have much rationale behind this, just that, to me, it seems like the most appropriate next step. Thoughts? I am looking for support if you agree, or alternate ideas otherwise.
  3. I am wondering to which extent the Knights Radiant can be part of an organization or civil society. They are bound to their oaths and specifically to their interpretation of their oath. So suppose you are a Windrunner and you consider a condemned prisoner innocent. What now? You must protect those who cannot protect themselves. Is that a court of law used proper procedures a reason to not follow through your own judgement? If you are a Skybreaker, of course, it would be. But that is exactly what you are not. Are there more conflicts of this sort? Or am I imagining things?
  4. Dalinar Kholin bonded the Stormfather, becoming one of the three Bondsmiths. Part of his oath was that he wouldn’t force the Stormfather into becoming a Shardblade, while another was that he would lead his forces to oppose Odium and defeat the Voidbringers. While in Vedenar, he felt Nergaoul, the Unmade that is commonly known as the Thrill. He recognized the Thrill and immediately ran away so that he wouldn’t fall under its influence. In order for him to escape he had to force the Stormfather into becoming a blade. Was Dalinar justified in forcing the Stormfather into becoming a blade? (For any curious, this question was sparked in my mind when the honorspren were questioning Adolin at his trial.)
  5. This post recapitulates a recent Discord debate on this topic. In honor of the late Justice Ginsburg, contrarian me dissents from the majority view. The issue concerns the meaning of the WoR Chapter 42 Epigraph: The debate asks these questions: What did Ishar do? Who did he do it to? How and when did the Oaths arise? COMPETING NARRATIVES Consensus Ishar “thrust organization” upon Surgebinders but did not impose the Oaths. Oaths inhere in each Order’s spren. Surgebinding required five Oaths even before Ishar. Within an Order each Knight and their spren agree on an Oath’s specific wording. “Perception is a big part of the Oaths.” Ishar’s “precepts and laws” were not magical but a set of mundane rules established for the Knights’ and each Order’s self-governance. Ishar threatened to kill any Surgebinder who wouldn’t accept his “precepts and laws.” Rebuttal Ishar’s Ashyn experience taught him how dangerous unchecked magical power can be. Recognizing Nahel bondable spren mimic Honorblades, Ishar insisted on an “organization” that mimicked the Oathpact. He created the Orders and imposed the First Oath, “Life Before Death...” (IMO, the Oathpact’s Oath). I think Ishar, perhaps with Shardic help, threatened to “destroy each and every one” to obtain their agreement: First the spren by forcibly breaking their bond while the Surgebinder lived, and then the former Surgebinder. Killing spren stops them bonding someone new. Killing former Surgebinders stops other like-minded spren from attempting to bond them. Honor wanted Dalinar to see the Nohadon vision for a reason. Alkavish’s revolt showed Nohadon “not all spren are as discerning as honorspren.” A single Oath’s grant of full power to humans didn’t stop the pre-Desolation carnage. With so few humans left, spren would have to wait many human generations before they could return to the Physical Realm. Nohadon may have been a Bondsmith. Perhaps with Shardic help and “Way of Kings” inspiration, Nohadon persuaded each spren Order to add four unique Oaths and permanently change the bond. Spren might willingly accept Nohadon’s solution to avoid another spren-wide catastrophe. Five Oaths incrementally ratchet up the Knight’s power as the Knight, through epiphany and self-scrutiny, attains each ideal. Oaths mark that ideal’s attainment. Incremental power growth minimizes the damage a traitorous Knight can do. ARGUMENTS Consensus What Did Ishar Do? Ishar did not impose Oaths. Oaths don’t create “organization.” Even within an Order each Knight and their spren agree on their own version of the Oath “though the concept is the same.” Malata proves Oaths don’t constrain Knight behavior. Malata and Spark agree she made proper Oaths and is deservedly Radiant. Yet she and Spark spy on Dalinar and the other Knights and actively sabotage their plans. To quote one Discord post, “the Oaths don't stop people from misusing their powers, so long as they can justify it and the spren agree.” If Oaths don’t “organize” Surgebinders, Ishar’s “precepts and laws” must involve some non-magical change. Consensus believes Ishar created the rules for the Knights Radiant and each Order’s self-governance. They cite the Knights’ execution of Kazilah as an example of those rules’ enforcement (WoR Chapter 51 Epigraph). Consensus also argues even a powerful Bondsmith like Ishar can’t change a magic system. They believe imposing Oaths changes Surgebinding. Shards themselves don’t actively create magic systems. Magic systems are the unplanned result of Shard Investiture in a planet. Except for Leras and Sazed, we don’t know any Shards that changed a magic system. How can a non-Shard make these changes? Who Did Ishar Do It To? Consensus reads the WoR Chapter 42 Epigraph (quoted at the top) to mean that Ishar organized and imposed his precepts and laws solely on the human Surgebinders and threatened only them with death. How and When Did the Oaths Arise? Consensus believes Oaths arise from the nature of each spren Order. They cite the diversity of Oaths among spren Orders as evidence. The variability of Oath wording within an Order further proves that Oaths arise from the spren themselves. Consensus believes Surgebinding required five Oaths even before Ishar. Rebuttal What Did Ishar Do? I believe Nahel bondable spren evolved as personifications of the Heralds’ Divine Attributes. They are attracted to humans who manifest the Primary Divine Attribute. Oaths mark the Knight’s progress to the Secondary Divine Attribute. At the Fifth Oath, the Knight and their spren merge Spiritual aspects and the Knight now personifies their spren’s Divine Attributes. I agree with Consensus that All Oaths arise from the nature of Nahel bondable spren. Spren grant power to anyone who fulfills their Oaths. Spark grants Malata power because she is Brave. He chose her from among other Brave people because she too wants to settle grudges. Malata will progress through her Oaths as she gains insight into the Dustbringer Divine Attributes of Brave and Obedient. Nothing about that process mandates who Malata should be Brave for or Obedient to. Shards don’t intentionally create magic systems. IMO, these points of agreement don’t compel Consensus’ conclusions. Oaths are natural to Nahel spren because they grow directly from the Divine Attributes the spren personifies. That doesn’t make Oaths a necessary part of the Nahel bond. Syl and Kaladin show Oaths are not necessary to form an incipient bond, at least for honorspren. She grants Kaladin power before he vows the First Oath at the Tower. Other Orders differ on when to grant power. Syl and Kaladin, IMO, prove Oaths regulate power but are not necessary to enter a bond and grant power. No wonder seeing human Surgebinders scared Ishar. Unregulated, unorganized full Radiants without any understanding of their powers or the deeper meaning of their ideals? Ishar rightly feared Rosharan Apocalypse. I believe Ishar organized the Orders and imposed the First Oath but not the others. Who Did Ishar Do It To? I believe Ishar threatened spren, not mortal Surgebinders. Spren initiate the Nahel bond. Killing mortals wouldn’t stop spren from trying to bond other mortals through whom to experience the Physical Realm. To end human Surgebinding altogether, Ishar needed to break each spren’s bond while their Surgebinder was still alive. He probably also killed the human Surgebinder after the bond breaks to stop them attracting another spren. Faced with eternal mindlessness and mortal death, spren and Surgebinder agreed to accept Ishar’s Oath. Consensus claims Ishar’s Oath changes Surgebinding. They believe only a Shard can change a magic system, and Ishar is no Shard despite his godly ambitions. IIRC, we have no evidence a powerful magic user like Ishar can’t change a magic system. Adding the First Oath as an Initiation condition seems slight compared to Sazed’s Spiritual changes to snapping. Bondsmiths Connect things. The first and (until Dalinar?) most powerful Bondsmith should have some say in the Nahel bonds’ terms. Spren capitulation shows they thought Ishar could break a Nahel bond. If Ishar’s own power was insufficient to the task, Honor could have given Ishar what he lacked. The Stormfather says Honor shared Ishar’s fears. Notum hints Tanavast’s death makes spren less trustworthy, as if Tanavast himself enforced spren compliance. How and When Did the Oaths Arise? I think Ishar imposed the generic First Oath when Surgebinders began to appear. IMO, the Order-specific Oaths followed Alkavish’s revolt. Like Ishar before him, Nohadon somehow secured spren agreement to change the terms of the Nahel bond. The spren themselves were likely appalled at the human losses. Too many spren lost the human bond that Connected them to the Physical Realm. With so few humans left, spren would have to wait many human generations before they could return to the Physical Realm. Spren might willingly accept Nohadon’s solution to avoid another spren-wide catastrophe. Nohadon’s Way of Kings outlines each Order’s ideals. Perhaps that and Shardic mediation inspired spren compliance. CONCLUSION There’s the debate. Now vote...
  6. Not all Skybreakers swear to Nale. Some follow other people, others follow an abstract principle. Sheer statistics make sure that some of them will not deem the Singer legitimate owners of Roshar. Some must just see them as escaped slaves to be returned to owners or their heirs or executed as rebels. Nale's attitude at least looks like that a Skybreaker must not attack another Skybreaker over judgements, only over actions. So they weren't eliminated right away. It's been a year. Where are they? Have they been killed in small clashes? Are they hiding away for a good moment to act? Are they waging guerilla war being reverse Robin Hoods hunting down escaped slaves? Are they waiting for Dalinar or a council of Knights Radiant to formally rescind the decision to abandon Urithiru?
  7. The title is pretty self explanatory. I want to know which was first, the Radiant spren or the Oaths. Now, we know that the spren created surgebinding trying to mimic the honorblades. We also know that the surgebinders later organized themselves into orders based on the heralds. Each order built their oaths on the virtues their chosen herald displayed. Now, this is where it gets interesting. The Oaths perfectly fit the characteristics of that orders spren, which perfectly fit the attributes of that orders herald. So, back to my original question, which was first, the Oath or the spren? If it was the spren then there are a couple of things that don't make sense. Why these particular spren? The Bondsmith spren make sense as they seem to be much larger then all the others, but why Ashspren but not Firespren? Also, it seems far too coincidental that the power the spren give and the ideals that they follow fit perfectly in with the heralds. Especially when Brandon has said you can in fact bond any spren, but the benefits of doing so would be less then that of a radiant spren. I think that the Oaths created the spren that we know today as radiant spren. I believe the ability to form the nahel bond strengthened a certain type of spren's intelligence. This would explain why some spren that you wouldn't think should be more intelligent then others are. Lets go back to the example of Ashspren. Ash doesn't seem to be a deeper idea or a more thought about concept, and yet ashspren have a higher intelligence then many other spren like rainspren or firespren. The creation of the Oaths and the orders of Radients by the Nahel bond would've granted the spren a higher intelligence and perhaps it also gave them more of an alignment with the oaths that they are bound to. This explains both why these spren are more intelligent and why they perfectly align with the heralds ideals and powers.
  8. Me and my friends were recently talking about the Knights Radiant ideals and started speculating on how the oaths are sworn, specifically Windrunners. When Kaladin is progressing in oaths he’s actively in positions to protect people and face these ideals. What about a person who say is a house servant and starts to bond an Honorspren and isn’t always in life or death situations trying to save people? Do they just passively start to understand the words and naturally say them or do they just stay stagnant and not progress?
  9. If you wish to become a knight radiant speak again the hallowed oaths Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination
  10. @Argent's “The Magics of Roshar” topic speculates that the Fifth Oath fully merges Knights Radiant and their spren. Further speculation suggests a Fifth Oath Radiant becomes the equivalent of a Herald with Honorblade who can pull Investiture directly from the Spiritual Realm. I generally agree with this speculation. @Jofwu on that thread asks this question: The answer may lie in what Nale tells Szeth: Nale says the Oathpact is “balanced.” I read him to mean there’s only one Herald per divine attribute. Fifth Oath Radiants could upset that balance and weaken the Oathpact. The “measures we took” seems a reference to Taln. Ishar fears Fifth Oath Radiants might somehow disable Taln’s Desolation defense. While Honor lived, he could decline to accept Radiant Fifth Oaths. The Stormfather, who replaced Honor, has yet to decline any oath. Nale kills incipient Radiants to ensure they never rival Heralds. Ishar’s threatening letter to Dalinar fits this concern. Ishar doesn’t want a rival Bondsmith wielding the “power of Connection.” Crazy is as crazy does.
  11. Created based on discussion on other thread. Does Shallan have her plate yet, and has she had it at any points in the past?
  12. I made this for a school assignment The Plight of the Radiants Saving a land that is not theirs; Protecting from it’s rightful heirs; Is it we who are the just in this endeavor; Can we truly protect this world forever; Honor tells us we must fight; Our position now makes us right; For who can blame a child for his father’s acts; Does he tell us this so we do not forsake our pacts; We destroyed the world that was ours; Will we not repeat to do the same with our powers; Will we ever be granted to pay back what owe; For who is the fiend, us or our foe;
  13. I can't believe I didn't notice this earlier. Nale is a Skybreaker of the fifth Oath. If the Skybreakers get Plate as part of their Radiant progression, Nale should have a nice shiny set of living Shardplate.
  14. Currently, we know that most orders, if not all of them receive their blades at the third oath and their plate at the 4th. The main reason for this seems that they are trying to prevent the radiant from damaging the spren like Kaladin did to Syl. But then I started thinking about the stonewards. Their attributes are resolve, strength and dependability. I think that means that they are less likely to kill their spren. I think it is also likely that they get their plate and blade at earlier oaths than the other orders. That might be their resonance.
  15. Do we know for certain which level of Radiant Dalinar is by the end of Oathbringer? Ever since I read it, I've been under the impression that he's currently of the third ideal (assuming that he didn't skip straight to the fifth with his 'I am Unity' proclamation), but someone on the Stormlight Archive Facebook group recently claimed that there was a Word of Brandon in which he said that in fact Dalinar is only a level two by the end of Oathbringer, but the WoB in question was only a paraphrase. Is anyone who knows the WoBs better than me able to clarify this?
  16. The Fourth Ideals of all orders that follow the regular oath system, is about when to stop following your ideals. This Windrunner has trouble understanding the fourth oath because it goes against protecting. (Note: The next sentence only works when assuming the elsecaller oaths are about being logical and Jasnah swearing four out of five oaths) Ivory tells Jasnah that she did the right thing when saving Renarin, even when it goes against the logic of the known fact they known. Renarin is bonded to a corrupted spren and is probably using voidbinding. The skybreakers Ideal of Crusade(4th Oath) can teach the Skybreaker when to have compassion on those that break the law, which they need for the fifth oath, Ideal of Law. The windruuner need to know when not to protect, so he can protect others. Jasnah needs to know that logic, do to lack of not knowing everything, can't be the only deciding factor. The Radiants need restraints.
  17. Hey Everyone! I had to join the forum for this one specific purpose. What do you think the essence of the Bondsmith ideals are? Like the actual meaning of the oath that helps define what they will swear as their own oath? We know from the Windrunner oaths that they are similar but not quite the same. Almost like they are personal to each person but have an "Ideal" behind them. Hence calling them an Ideal. So what about the bondsmith oaths that Dalinar has already swore. "I will unite instead of divide. I will bring men together." -This almost feels straight forward that it is about bonding. Bringing things together and being solid in your ideals and position. But i could be wrong. "I will take responsibility for what I have done. If I must fall, I will rise each time a better man." -I wanted to say Progression. Improvement. Or even Repentant. Accepting responsibility and becoming better indicates a need to continuously improve. Recognizing that you make mistakes and move forward. So what are you thoughts on this? I would love to understand what the essence of the bondsmith oaths are.
  18. Sorry clickbait. But seriously what do you guys think are possible Willshaper oaths. I have these so far: Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination. I will be foolish no matter what. I will be stupid, and get high on adrenaline for all my days. I shall cleanse the non-fools of there non- foolishness. I AM ANOYING. (If it isn’t clear, I’m joking and don’t actually think this of the willshapers)
  19. So I dunno I was just thinking about it because it's been bothering me. It was a really nice curveball from Brandon, because we all kind of assumed he was going to say it. Then he didn't. I think we have enough information on screen to eek out the fourth ideal. I don't think it's about protecting. I think it's about killing. "I can't lose him, but.....oh, Almighty...I can't save him." "I will kill the ones that......" or "I will kill those who endanger humanity" or even like Szeth "I will lead for Dalinar Kholin" - If he said that and he is sure Dalinar is about to turn the dial up to evil 11, he just can't do it. He couldn't say the words because he knew if he did he would presumably have to kill Dalinar, and he couldn't do it. In part one Kaladin and Syl have a conversation about morality and who is right and who is wrong. The Fourth Ideal I believe for windrunners has to do with choosing a side. Just like Szeth's third ideal. Kaladin can't choose. Just like the windrunner crystal. They first 3 ideals have to do with protecting, and they have to know all the parshendi aren't bad.
  20. So, just got back from the release! So hype! But, to the point. I got two books, one for me and one for a friend, and I asked for new oaths we haven't heard yet. "My Glory and my Shame" - this one seems strange, could just be a nice quote. "You cannot have my pain" - possibly seems more legit. There was a ton of people, and it was late, so maybe these aren't what I asked for, but maybe. just something cool I guess.
  21. This might be a pointless thread, but it's something that struck me as weird. The Coppermind and the Stormlight Archive refer to Ym as a likely Truthwatcher. Considering the fact that he gave children shoes in exchange for their stories. That seems to be more in line with the Edgedancers oath to "remember those who have been forgotten." I don't remember him doing anything that resembled casting illusions like you would expect with Lightweaving.
  22. I've seen dozens of topics on 'when' the Recreance happened, 'what' the secret is that broke the KR, 'why' they abandoned their shards en masse, and 'who' may or may not have taken part in the Recreance. This is not one of those topics. Right now I want to discuss 'how'. @The One Who Connects recently reminded me that abandoning oaths leads to a slower spren death/regression, while breaking oaths can straight up kill them. It seems that the Recreance happened rather suddenly, and we're told that multiple orders took part all at once. That, to me, screams of purposefully breaking an oath. It's possible that each order chose a different ideal to break, but more likely... which oath could all the Radiants break at once? Only the first. Life before death. Obviously the Radiants betrayed this oath when they killed so many sprenblades, but how do you break this oath to bring that about in the first place? I don't think this is a likely candidate for the broken oath. It felt more like the Radiants had a collective (probably very convincing) reason to abandon their posts, and I doubt they just did it in order to give up and die... at least they wouldn't have chosen to do that all at once. Strength before weakness. Similarly, if their weaknesses caused them to perform the Recreance, I feel like it would be more gradual, with only a few Radiants falling at a time. Again, I feel that - if they had a good reason for the Recreance - seeing it through and betraying their spren would take massive strength. Journey before destination. This seems most likely to me. If the Radiants discovered a 'secret' that broke them, it could be any one of the things that numerous other threads have discussed (again, don't derail my thread!) Regardless, I think it's safe to say that if the Radiants decided the Recreance was the only way to save humanity (or really any other very convincing end goal), then they would heroically go through with it despite the cost. While noble in theory, that attitude is wilfully putting destination before journey. I think making that choice is what allowed the Radiants to leave their shards as they did. I obviously have a lot of assumptions here Anyone have another idea on 'how' the Radiants were able to perform the Recreance as they did?
  23. This is a theory, that I've been forming in the current Shalladin thread here yesterday. Well, the thread moved on and never really got into any discussion about it. I believe the theory alone is enough to allow for a whole thread. I don't want this thread to become part of the shipping war. I want to see opinions about this. So, please refrain from getting too worked up about any of it. It's just a theory. (And I know, that I have problems with not getting worked up, too. I try to work on it. ) ---- So, in Chapter 15 of Oathbringer we see Shallan getting confronted by Adolin with the fact, that she actually has a Shardblade, a fact she has been trying to forget by splitting Pattern into two personalities - the spren and the Blade. Now, I'm a pretty vocal fan of the Shallan/Kaladin pairing, so this might seem a bit biased, but I hope you try to understand my perspective, when I try to explain the Shallan/Adolin relationship in it's current form - from Shallan's perspective - Adolin's is pretty short, he is infatuated with her, maybe even in love, and wants to keep her. But I digress, Shallan's perspective: The world is ending, listeners all around Roshar are turning into mindless murder machines threatening mankind. And damnation, Shallan is supposed to be a Radiant. To step up and help save mankind? Imagine the pressure. Imagine the uncertainty. Adolin is the only thing, that currently is certain in Shallan's life. She clings to it, she bends herself to make it work, like when she wouldn't tell Adolin, that she rather would not train duelling stances. That is also why her subconscious starts to kick in and panicks, when she gets the feeling, he might blow off the betrothal. But only the betrothal, she's so focused on the betrothal, of that anchor, that she is afraid of losing that. But I don't blame her, it's human. It is true, that she likes Adolin, but in my opinion, there is little true textual evidence, that she loves him. She never says, "Oh no, Adolin is going to leave me.", but, instead, says "Oh no, he's going to blow off the betrothal." Now, how does Adolin inhibit Shallan's character growth? By being that one anchor in her life, she is too afraid to lose it. So, in order to not disappoint him, she creates Brightness Radiant, just so she can have a good time with him. It would be fine, but it is not what she has to do to progress. Pattern basically confirms that. Shallan needs to become a Knight, but she needs to be it herself. Not Brightness Radiant. Not Veil. It needs to be Shallan. As seen above, when Shallan denies the fact, that she can be a Knight Radiant, Pattern is confused. Or, at least, Shallan recognizes it as confusion. Maybe it is irritation. Anyway, I don't believe, that Pattern can help her with this. He blames himself for her state of mind and even offers to kill himself for Shallan. So she can become, who she needs to be. He thinks, that she hates him. Even if Shallan tells him, she doesn't. He is confused, because he is oblivious to the fact, that Shallan, in her mind, has been splitting Pattern in two. I really is a strange relationship Shallan has been creating for them after the hard truth at the end of WoR. One might argue, that Brightness Radiant is just a role, like an actor would play, but I don't agree with that. She is a different personality, which takes over. A facade. A Shallan-influenced, but different soul. The biggest takeaway for that is, that Brightness Radiant apparently can't draw, one of Shallan's best skills. She's even talking of Radiant as a different person. Anyway, the bottom line is, that Shallan is already building walls again. And, though not through his intent, Adolin is enabling it. The worst part is, that he doesn't even see the change in Shallan, when she takes on the Brightness Radiant persona. I have seen some arguments about Shallan being able to overcome her fear of Pattern, by Adolin's love of Blades rubbing off on her. Could be, the problem is, that it currently is rubbing off on Radiant, who is a completely different entity from Shallan. Even in Shallan's own mind! I can't emphasize that enough. Poor Adolin doesn't know it, but he's doing her a disservice. And now he thinks, that she enjoys Shardblade practice, so I am positive, that it will become a regular thing. And everytime he won't be with Shallan, but with Radiant. Then I've been thinking: "What could help her then? If her own betrothed can't help her, because of their convolution in being betrothed in the first place?" And then it hit me: Kaladin. In the end, it always comes down to Kaladin. Why? I'll tell you. Remember after Kaladin killed that Veden Shardbearer (I won't call him Helaran here, because I'm still not 100 percent convinced it really is him. The description was suspiciously vague.), who killed his men? He refused the shards. He said, that he can't bear them, that he won't bear them. For one, because they were coated with the blood of his own men. See the parallel to Pattern being tainted by Shallan's mother's blood? And, secondly, because it would make him a lighteyes. Remember how Adolin offers Kaladin Shards after the duel? He still refuses. He still can't imagine ever carrying a Shardblade. He fears them for their killing power, he disrespects them for that. But he overcame his problems. He saw, that he needed to be a Knight Radiant, to wield a Shardblade and, if necessary, even become lighteyed in the process. Become one of those persons, that he hated for all his life. What I think is, that Shallan doesn't need someone, who tells her how great Blades are and that she should be happy for having one. She needs someone, who she can relate to. Who understands her problem. Someone, who says, "I know how you feel, I felt the same not so long ago. I hated the idea of wielding a Shardblade. But let me help you get over that fear. Let me help you become what you have to become. You don't have to do this all by yourself, you're not alone." And that someone is Kaladin. Because, if you break it down to bottom, they both have or had the same problem. The unability to use a Shardblade as a weapon. Hating them for their killing power. Plus it would give a wonderful opportunity to finally talk about Helaran. Kaladin also seems to be pretty good at noticing, when she's hiding herself again. Like he did in the carriage ride in WoR, where she was hiding some emotions from Adolin. Conclusion: Shallan is barricading herself in lies again. Pattern blames himself for it. Adolin is involuntarily enabling her. Kaladin might be the solution.
  24. This is a longer post than I intended. I foolishly read the thread about Taravangian after writing the first part of this post. That thread in turn led to the discussion of oath interpretation and Knight Radiant behavior. Advance apologies for lumping all that together here, but I think they are related issues. Radiantspren “True” Names I theorize each Radiantspren is the personification of the human ideal represented by their KR Order’s “Primary Attribute.” IMO, these ideals are the spren’s true names, reflecting what they are. The names in the novels are the names Radiantspren call themselves. These self-identifying names may reflect spren self-perception, but not the human perception each Radiantspren personifies. Examples: I describe the Radiantspren we know the most about in these terms. I don’t address all Radiantspren because we haven’t met them all. Honorspren IMO are “Protectingspren.” Syl protects Kaladin during the highstorm, holding back winds that would tear him apart. When Kaladin tumbles into the chasm, Syl’s last act before the bond breaks (Rock-a-bye Baby?) forces Stormlight into Kaladin, protecting him from the fall. She denies the Stormfather to help Kaladin reinstate his oaths. Protection is Syl’s purpose, what she is. Cryptics IMO are “Creativespren,” to be distinguished from creationspren. The essence of artistic creativity is pattern-recognition, seeing what others do not see. Pattern aids Shallan’s creativity by pushing her to more self-discovery and self-understanding, seeing the patterns within herself. That is necessary for her art to grow. He gives her creative advice throughout. When Shallan cannot see the “pattern” of the Oathgate, Pattern tells Shallan she should back up for perspective. Wyndle, whatever he and his fellow Ring members call themselves, IMO is a “Lovingspren.” He “mothers” Lift and frets about her health and safety. He scolds her to eat more (as every mother does), so that her Surgebinding won’t make her too skinny. Wyndle’s purpose is to love Lift, to care for her, so that she can love and care for others. Inkspren IMO are “Learnedspren.” Ivory seems willing to let Jasnah die in the WoR Prologue if she cannot learn how to use the Shadesmar beads properly. He acts like an exam proctor, testing her “learnedness” before he “passes” her into KR status. I think the following WoB (the third quote from @Calderis's “oath interpretation” post) supports the distinction between human perception and spren self-perception. Spren “self-identity” IMO doesn’t change their human-personified behavior. Rather, highspren think “honorspren will let their people break their oaths if they think it’s for a good cause.” IMO, an honorspren’s “good cause” is protecting people, which appears to supersede the oaths. I think the WoB’s last part addresses whether oaths are objective or subjective, not the human-personified nature of the spren itself – “how they work,” not what they are: KR Oaths @Calderis makes excellent points in his thread on KR behavior. (Upvotes not only for him but also for @Extesian, who supplied the quotations.) KR are not good or evil and may act “cruelly,” as Brandon says. Agreed, but I think a bit overstated. The Radiantspren won’t begin to bond unless the KR candidate has the same “temperament” – Primary Attribute – as the Radiantspren: protecting, creative, loving, etc. I think Attribute alignment places intrinsic limits on KR variance within the same Order. IMO, each KR Order’s Primary Attribute solely determines a KR candidate’s placement in that Order. Thus, I’d expect KR personalities to differ. I think many personality types can be protecting, or creative, or loving. It makes sense to me that the precise oath statement would differ from KR to KR within an Order. It’s also possible same-type spren themselves show personality differences. Radiantspren are “people” too. But IMO these differences don’t affect their nature, their Primary Attribute. I’m unconvinced all same-type spren personality variations “come from the person they are bonded to,” as @Calderis states (emphasis in original). FWIW, I think Radiantspren resemble Shards and their Mandates (intents). IMO both are power imbued with cognitive limitations. Both exercise their power subject to those limitations, even though (as Brandon says of Vessels) their personalities also affect their power exercise. KR Behavior So…to say KRs can act “dishonorably” seems obvious. Each Order is bound only by its common Primary Attribute. Oaths strengthen that bond, but again, only to more closely align a KR with its Order’s Primary Attribute. Attributes like Protection and Creativity don’t necessarily bear any relationship to one another. Windrunners and Lightweavers can have different goals and different means of obtaining them. Such differences can easily lead to conflict among Orders. @Calderis suggests Taravangian could be an Elsecaller like Jasnah. If I’m correct that Inkspren are “learned” spren, Taravangian clearly qualifies and could well attract an Inkspren. More so, because Brandon says in one of @Calderis’ WoBs that, until bonded, spren don’t fully comprehend the person they bond with. (That’s a fascinating comment!) I wonder how long Taravangian’s Nahel bond would survive, though. The Elsecaller Secondary Attribute is “giving.” Taravangian IMO deliberately misleads others. He does not share information, he shares misinformation. Maybe that counts as giving, but…. Posters discuss whether Taravangian is misguided or “evil” in a moral sense on the “Mr. T” thread. I won’t add to that discussion here. I do note the extent to which the Diagram seems to support Nale’s notion about the KR’s danger. Jiminy Cricket to the KR’s Pinocchio?
  25. So, this is a very theoretical post. It's not mega-sourced (which I hope is ok), because it's more about how we look at larger, more abstract concepts related to language and literary themes. I don't believe there are any spoilers here. Here goes. As I’ve been thinking about SA’s language, I’ve realized that a lot of the terms it uses sound like they could be part of a standard fantasy series with stock villains who have generic goals. We often take them for granted. But we see in some of the archaic meanings of words in in-world songs and texts, the terms can be opaque or have a second, often older meaning. Sanderson has had some fun with misunderstood words in other series, too... This led me to try a linguistic analysis of SA’s in-world terminology and to contextualize it with some of the major thematic elements of the series. Major Themes: Loss, Corruption, Recovery of Knowledge The Integrity, Durability (or Fragility) of Bonds, Barriers, Seals, and Oaths Terminology: I, and perhaps others, have been thinking about “Desolation” in terms of a goal of essentially sending Rosharans “back to the stone age” and wiping out civilization. It’s a familiar goal in an ordinary fantasy series. Additionally, because of the theme of the loss and gain of knowledge, this makes even more sense to the reader in the early stages of the series. But “Desolation” can also mean forsaken or abandoned (the Latin root). The word “Void” also sounds like it would be a cliché end-goal of a “big bad” in a fantasy novel. More like emptiness, the void of space, etc. But “Void” also means the breaking of a contract or agreement, or even a hole or breach in a wall meant to shelter or protect. What I’m suspecting, is that these terms—and their compound and modified forms—are interconnected. Some of these connections are familiar, but I think that they are much more complex and work on more levels than we realize. I’ve thought of a few ways that these terms apply to the series, but I imagine there are many more. This is in no way comprehensive. It’s more about looking at the series through a lens that I suspect the author uses. Here are a few: Shards and their goals: Odium is the “Broken One.” He breaks bonds, vows, oaths, he renders them void. He shatters. What helps the Broken One break/void pacts and oaths? Voidbringers and the Unmade. Honor is the shard most associated with oaths, bonds, fulfilling/adhering etc. He creates walls to protect, walls made out of humans, spren, and oaths. Here, we see the root of their opposing interests. Stormlight, bonds, and cracks: We know that Honorblades let too much stormlight in, perhaps making the user more susceptible to malicious influences. Knights Radiant, too, have cracks, but the symbiosis of the Nahel bond protects in most cases. And Voidbringers (whoever/whatever they are) are perhaps the “Knights Radiant” of Odium, though without patterns, laws, and can include species that have an affiliation with gems, stone, or are actual stones. They are able to hold in stormlight because Odium’s influence has corrupted them, sealing the cracks to only his influence, and making them like stone. Misunderstanding the purposes of Stonewards and “Dustbringers”: I suspect that Stonewards, in particular, have become confused in popular understanding, at least in the past. They may be strong like stone, but more important, they guard and protect against things made of stone or like stone/rock. They “ward” against stone-like bonded Voidspren. “Releasers” or “Dustbringers” may turn animated stone enemies, perhaps even VoidListeners, to Dust, releasing—and hopefully destroying—the bonded Voidspren. Part of the reason they are feared, even though they are needed, is because they break bonds, not unlike the Broken One and his friends. An example of language and double meanings from the Listeners: Conclusion: Perhaps the conflict, at least for the first 5 books, is about Odium’s attempt to shatter bonds, pacts, and oaths, layers upon layers of these protective forces that put up a barrier between Roshar and Odium. Should Odium render these protective bonds void, perhaps weakening them with the help of a loss of knowledge about the larger conflict and the less abstract assistance of the Unmade and Voidbringers, he will break through and fully touch Roshar and destroy its shard and cognitive shadow shard. The True Desolation involves a final forsaking or abandoning of the vows and bonds that protect Roshar and the more literal, catastrophic abandoning of its inhabitants, by shards, heralds, and others sworn to protect Roshar from Odium’s influence. This may not all be new, but I think that really digging into words that Sanderson chose for very specific reasons could lead to some fun ideas...