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Found 32 results

  1. I was listening to RoW, in particular Kaladin's spar with Zahel. When Zahel was talking about Type 2 Invested entities, when a departing soul is drenched in power and stapled back onto a body. I'm paraphrasing from the audio, but Zahel says "It's what happened to me. Happen to your friend in the tower too. The one with the sword." That's gotta be referring to Szeth right? There's also this WoB, particularly the bolded section: So... did Nale just cut the timing really, really close, or did he deliberately wait until Szeth was dead before sloppily stapling his/a soul back to his body? If so, why? What about Gawx? With Szeth in particular, I started wondering if he would end up being in some measure Kaladin's guinea pig for the project Dalinar gave him - namely healing the Heralds' minds. As a slight tangent, I wonder if Moelach was deployed by Rayse specifically to accelerate the mental degradation of the Heralds. It seems unlikely that the Death Rattles were meant to benefit humanity, particularly the Diagram. Maybe it was meant to give insight for the Fused and attack the Heralds? Perhaps Moelach will have to be bound before the Heralds regain any of their sanity. Any ideas as to why it might be important that Szeth is potentially a Cognitive Shadow? Thoughts?
  2. Hello everybody, I am excited to post a topic for the first time! I’ve been thinking a lot of RoW and there has been something constantly bugging me ever since finishing the book. Why is Nale holding back his full power? As revealed in RoW Nale is a fifth ideal Skybreaker. This means he not only has access to shard plate but also whatever mystery power is granted by the fifth ideal. If he were to use these resources he would not only have absolutely smoked any radiant he fought, he would also have been more effective at his mission. Instead he chooses not use his shard plate. Any thoughts?
  3. How did Nale convince himself to ditch his honorblade and leave Taln to rot in Braze? It’s clear that he still attempts to adhere to his ideal of justice. In fact he is still bonded to his spren. I think it’s pretty safe to say that he didn’t just have some moment of weakness and then go straight back to doing what he did before; rather I think he must have convinced himself this was the right thing to do. Well, how did he do that? One thing I’m sure about is that that convincing argument had a central concept: “I’m adhering to the letter of the law, therefore I am not breaking the law or acting unjustly”. This is in strong contrast to his flashback, where we see him crafting the law to embody the ideals of justice and honor, and evaluating different implementations of the same legal structure on those terms. What we see of Nale in present times is a complete 180 in the opposite direction: a willingness to degrade the spirit of the law into irrelevance as long as he maintains adherence to the literal law on the most superficial level. I’m sure this could be extended to the other Heralds, but it’s late and I need to get some sleep. Perhaps we’ll need more flashbacks like Nale’s to be certain. But given the evidence available (not much) I’m pretty confident about this.
  4. So I was rereading Edgedancer recently and came across this little bit in the Nale/Lift battle that got me thinking. (Ch19 if you want to look it up yourself) The first bunch of times I read this were all pre-Oathbringer and RoW so I just assumed that he was summoning his Honorblade, and at the time Szeth's actions implied that an Honorblade required 10 heartbeats. Except, we've learned something since then: Nale is (supposedly) of the 5th Ideal So why the delay? It would make sense that his Spren would be right there with him, and Syl has shown that means instantaneous Blade. It has also been heavily implied that Nale's 2nd Blade is his Honorblade, which may or may not have a delay. I think Nale killed his Spren, and when that happened is when Nale went to Shinovar and retrieved his Honorblade (Oathbringer ch106, Szeth mentions that Shinovar had 9, until 1 vanished long ago). Either because of Ego or Madness, he can't/won't admit what he did, and has been using the Honorblade to make the Skybreakers think he is of the 5th Ideal. A few additional points: RoW ch77, Nale implies that he is sworn to not touch the Honorblades, or at the minimum Jezrien's Blade specifically. Nale is, AFAIK, never seen wearing Shardplate. Even in RoW when he takes an arrow to the eyeball, no Plate appears The thing I can't figure out is this: how is he fooling the Highspren? 100% he could trick humans into thinking he's 5th Ideal, but I'd think that the other Highspren might want to talk to his Spren. So yeah, what's everyone think about this? IMO it's obviously not conclusive, but I also don't feel that I'm making something out of nothing.
  5. Perhaps this has been discussed at length already, but I wanted to see if I could break down the incident where Dalinar touches Nale and sees into his history. First off, unless I am mistaken, the flashbacks that Dalinar sees are seen in reverse to when they happened. The alternative, for me, is that the flashbacks are out of order like deathrattles, but I don't see the point of that and the reverse chronology makes sense. "Dalinar saw Nale stepping away from a discarded Blade rammed into the stone" This sounds like Aharietiam and I believe is the clue given that these events are going to progress backward. There is no other time I can think of that Nale would discard Blade, capital B. Nale cradling a child in one arm, his Blade out as dark forces crawled across a ridge nearby Immediately this makes me think of the child deathrattle and it makes me wonder if we will see Nale again next book in a similar circumstance. There must be some significance here or it wouldn't be here. Did he save someone significant that we will hear about later? Perhaps someone important to Aharietiam? The minimum is that it shows Nale used to protect against the "dark forces". Nale standing with a group of scholars and unrolling a large writ, filled with writing. "The law cannot be moral," Nale said to them. "But you can be moral as you create laws. Ever must you protect the weakest, those most likely to be taken advantage of. Institute a right of movement, so that a family who feels their lord is unrighteous can leave his area. Then tie a lord's authority to people who follow him." Great snippit here showing how Nale used to be - a believer in laws, but with a focus on morality and protection of those weakest. Depending on who these scholars were, perhaps we can, have, or will see this system of rule somewhere? Sounds like a pretty good system to me. Note that this one is made after the next one (bonding a highspren) and so it might be at or around the time Nale swore the 5th ideal. I find it unlikely he swore the 5th ideal after Aharietiam. This is the first place we can see the humongous contrast between Past-Nale and current Nale - here morality is fundamental to law and protection at its core. With Nale being so moral and protection minded, the fifth ideal "I am the Law" gains new meaning and might have relevance for book 5 and Szeth (who it wouldn't surprise me to see swear the 5th ideal, but that's another topic). Nale kneeling before a highspren A reminder here from Brandon that Nale is a skybreaker in addition to being a Herald - this is clearly a thread not to forget. Nale fighting on a battlefield... Another fight... Another fight... Then endless desolations which come with more and more frequency towards Aharietiam, though these fights are probably pretty far from Aharietiam, time-wise. Nale clasping hands with a bearded Alethi man, regal and wise. [Jezerezeh]... "I will take this charge," Nale said softly. "With honor." "Do not consider it an honor," Jezerezeh said. "A duty, yes, but not an honor." "I understand, though I did not expect you would come to an enemy with this offer." "An enemy, yes," Jezerezeh said. "But an enemy who was correct all along, making me a villain, not you. We will fix what we've broken. Ishar and I agreed. There is no person we would welcome more eagerly into this pact than you. You are the single most honorable man I have ever had the privilege of opposing." "I wish that were true," Nale said. "But I will serve the best I can." There's a lot to unpack here, but I think the first thing we can all agree on is that this conversation happens right before the formation of the Oathpact, placing this at the beginning of the struggle between the singers and the humans. Oddities of word choice abound. First off, it is clear that Nale is honorable - is this therefore after Honor sided with the humans, or did Honor side with the humans AFTER/IN CONJUNCTION WITH the creation of the Oathpact? After all, Ishar had bondsmith powers well before the exodus from Ashyn and Ishar is the one who made the Oathpact. There is a discussion of enemies and villains and fixing what was broken. This is all laden with implications we can only guess at. So let's guess at them. If I remember correctly, all the heralds save Taln were royalty of some form or another, meaning Nale was likely a king at the beginning - whether starting on Ashyn or while staying in the Shin Valley where the humans first resided. So were he and Jezrian battle opponents (and if so was their war part of what broke Ashyn or part of what started the conflict on Roshar?) or were they political opponents - two sides of an argument. I think the latter is more likely as it leads directly into the fact that whatever the contention, Jezrian here admits wrong and the need to fix what was broken (is there any connection here to The Girl Who Looked Up?). Nale, it seems was always a little more aligned with actions that wouldn't upset or disrupt the singers and Jezrian, not. Little wonder the Fused killed Jezrian first if he was the start of it all. --- That's what I've gleaned from these passages. I imagine by book 10 we'll have seen in more detail each of these events as they will supposedly dive more into the heralds. Please let me know if I missed a clue or got something wrong (or something right). I'd love for more people to add if I've missed any connections that'll let us tease out details of the early history of Roshar.
  6. From the album Heralds

  7. I know I’m not alone in struggling to see Skybreakers as not sorta evil, particularly in comparison to Windrunners. Like it seems to come down to Honor vs. the Law, which seems pretty biased. Especially when the easiest comparison is best boy Kaladin vs. dumpster fire Szeth. After some thought here’s my outline for how Skybreakers are actually kinda valid. Skybreakers are their core are about consistency and fairness. It's not so much the law, as a willingness to follow a personal code, that Nale is most interested in (WOB). So it’s not really about following the law. It’s about following a code. It’s not supposed to be about abdicating moral decision making. It’s supposed to be about putting fairness over your own opinion. By swearing themselves to a code, Skybreakers are trying to transcend their own biases. This doesn’t mean Skybreakers can’t be flexible. See Szeth choosing to punish the Warden over prisoners (OB). In fact, the pattern of Skybreaker ideals is about developing and understanding your own set of ethics. Kant would probably be a great Skybreaker. 2nd Ideal: “I swear to seek justice, to let it guide me until I find a more perfect Ideal.” and “I will put the law before all else” It's about making a commitment to justice, a promise to follow a higher authority than your own biases. Notably, unlike the next, this ideal gives the flexibility to try out different codes and rules of ethics. A 2nd level Skybreaker is working to eliminating biases and exploring different ethical frameworks. 3rd Oath of Dedication Here the Skybreaker makes a commitment to a specific external code/authority. It could be a person (Dalinar) or it could be "the law of the land" or anything. The Skybreaker has explored what exists and chosen a code they think is most just. 4th Ideal of Crusade I think this is supposed to function as a test of the code they’ve chosen to follow, like a practical version of thought experiments like the Trolley problem. The Radiant has to see how the code they’ve chosen applies to a real-world situation they have a deep personal investment in. It’s both a test of the Skybreaker (how well can you ignore your own bias to apply a code) and also a test of the law they’ve chosen to follow (does it actually work in the real world). 5th Ideal of Law The Skybreaker has gained such an in-depth understanding of ethics and proven ability to ignore bias that they grow beyond the need for an external guide and ‘become the law’. This is were they synthesize everything learned through the other ideals and formulate their own set of ethics. Side Note: An example of a case where a Skybreaker might make a “better” (at least to my view) decision than a Windrunner would be Kaladin’s WOR dilemma. Both a Skybreakers and Windrunner would have a similar problem: help my friend get justice vs. support the assassination of someone I’m guarding. The Windrunner (Kaladin) is supposed to protect people, and people therefore either fall into the ‘protect’ or ‘protect from’ category. Elhokar ends up getting slotted into the ‘protect’ category and Moash into ‘protect from’. He saves someone’s life temporarily but ultimately does nothing to help the underlying issue. Elhokar never has to confront what he did to Moash and Moash still wants blood. A Skybreakers is supposed to find justice. Elhokar doesn’t deserve to die for negligence and being a bad leader but Moash was truly wronged and has valid complaints. To be just would balance that Elhokar both deserves to live but also to be punished. A good (not modern) Skybreaker could better equipped to take in the grey areas of issues. In short, Skybreakers play the role of the legal system while Windrunners are more like first responders. The Windrunner keeps people from being murdered but a Skybreaker's role is to figure out how it got to the point of murder in the first place.
  8. Hey there. I'm new to the forums so I have no Idea if this has come up before. I wanted to have a quick chat about why the Nale doesn't want to go grab Jezzrian's Honorblade off Sezth in Chapter 77 of RoW and the implications of it for the future of Stormlight. So while Nale is having his super friendly chat with Venli and Ulim he says, Quote: "There is a man here in the city tonight. I have been tracking him due to his unusual circumstances. He possesses an artifact that belonged to a friend of mine. I have sworn not to touch said artifact, for... reasons that are unimportant to you." Unquote So Nale clearly knows about Szeth and Jezzrian's blade and that made me think of what possible reason he (and i'm going to assume the other Heralds) could have for not taking the Honorblade. My immediate thought is that when Honor made the Honorblades he made all the Heralds swear to not take more than one so they couldn't gain what he percieved to be to much power. (I think the "chains" Honor had put on Bondsmiths and the Radiant Oaths themselves are other examples of him not wanting people to access to much power) So I started thinking about what would happen if someone was bonded to more than one Honorblade at a time. I believe it would certainly grant access to all the avaliable surges associate with the blades. But that's not what really intrigued me. I started thinking about what would happen if you had access to two overlapping blades. For example, lets say that someone became bonded to both the Edgedancer and the Truthwatcher Honorblades. This would give them access to the Progression surge from two different sources. I think that this would likely have a similar effect to how compounding works on Scadrial. For example, two Progression blades could use Regrowth to heal faster, with less Stormlight and probably for more serious and longer lingering wounds. Now I think this is especially relevant when it comes to the (forgive my phrasing) power level of Nale. We know that he is both a Skybreaker of the Fifth Ideal and that he is bonded to his Honorblade, giving him acess to the Surges of Gravitation and Division twice. I agrue that because of this Nale is probably the most powerful Surgebinder on Roshar, (maybe discounting insane Connection Bonsmith stuff). I assume he'd be almost impossible to kill as he would process Stormlight at such an efficeient rate as to essentially make him as close to a perfect container as the leaky human body can be. I think his compounded Gravitation makes him incredibly fast and almost certainly a better sky warrior than even the Heavenly Ones and I could easily see compounded Division as being a potential cause of the Shattered Plains, so you really don't want to be around that. Combine this with him being a Herald (and I would guess one of the upper half in terms of best fighters) and you have one incredibly scary problem to deal with. So. Here is my prediction for book 5. At some point in their journey to Shinovar, Szeth and Kaladin are going to have to go toe to toe with Nale and he is going to wreck him. We've already seen that Szeth is not even a slight threat and I can't imagine Kaladin will be much better. So I reckon that one of them is going to have to take Jezzrian's blade off Moash and use it to counpound their abilities. From a Surgebinding mechanics point of view, it would make more sense for Kaladin to have it, but from a story point of view I think Szeth getting it back and using it for good would be super awesome. But I can easily see a faceoff in the sky with Nale, Kaladin and Szeth, each wielding two blades and having an awesome show down. TLDR: Nale's Honorblade lets him coumpound his Surgebinding and I reckon that someone needs Jezzrian's blade to do the same and beat Nale.
  9. Not all Skybreakers swear to Nale. Some follow other people, others follow an abstract principle. Sheer statistics make sure that some of them will not deem the Singer legitimate owners of Roshar. Some must just see them as escaped slaves to be returned to owners or their heirs or executed as rebels. Nale's attitude at least looks like that a Skybreaker must not attack another Skybreaker over judgements, only over actions. So they weren't eliminated right away. It's been a year. Where are they? Have they been killed in small clashes? Are they hiding away for a good moment to act? Are they waging guerilla war being reverse Robin Hoods hunting down escaped slaves? Are they waiting for Dalinar or a council of Knights Radiant to formally rescind the decision to abandon Urithiru?
  10. Art by me. @/Cephandrius on Twitter.
  11. So I was thinking about this. When the false desolation occurs, it is possible that Nale was mad enough at this point to not recognize that an Unmade was the reason that the Parshendi were getting forms of power (after all, this was the first time, an Unmade was responsible for this). He might have considered it to be another desolation. Shortly after this, the Radiants gave up their shards (The Recreance) and then there was a prolonged period without any desolation until the events of Oathbringer. Perhaps by Nale's insane logic, he felt the absence of Radiants meant that the real cycle of desolation was broken. This could be the reason why he started hunting down Radiants to prevent them from growing in number again. Does this theory make any sense or are there holes in my logic? Does that line of thinking make sense?
  12. @Argent's “The Magics of Roshar” topic speculates that the Fifth Oath fully merges Knights Radiant and their spren. Further speculation suggests a Fifth Oath Radiant becomes the equivalent of a Herald with Honorblade who can pull Investiture directly from the Spiritual Realm. I generally agree with this speculation. @Jofwu on that thread asks this question: The answer may lie in what Nale tells Szeth: Nale says the Oathpact is “balanced.” I read him to mean there’s only one Herald per divine attribute. Fifth Oath Radiants could upset that balance and weaken the Oathpact. The “measures we took” seems a reference to Taln. Ishar fears Fifth Oath Radiants might somehow disable Taln’s Desolation defense. While Honor lived, he could decline to accept Radiant Fifth Oaths. The Stormfather, who replaced Honor, has yet to decline any oath. Nale kills incipient Radiants to ensure they never rival Heralds. Ishar’s threatening letter to Dalinar fits this concern. Ishar doesn’t want a rival Bondsmith wielding the “power of Connection.” Crazy is as crazy does.
  13. In OB, it sound like it's possible to force a person to bond a specific type of spren. (Nale would do it, to bond potential radiants to make them skybreakers, or kill them.) Is it? Does that mean that the type of spren is technically irrelevant?
  14. This post addresses a mystery: In a world riven by race warfare, why does an Ascended being give Roshar’s deadliest killer the cosmere’s most dangerous object? Why link this scary duo when one doesn’t trust his moral code and the other doesn’t have one? One answer: Cultivation foresees Investiture growth will cause Nightblood to ascend as a Divine Object, the super-sapient Sword of Retribution. She chooses Szeth to teach Nightblood the meaning of evil – who deserves to die (“retribution”) and who doesn’t – before Nightblood ascends. The starting point: 1. Cultivation knows about Nightblood, since the Nightwatcher offers Nightblood to Dalinar: “A Blade that bleeds darkness and cannot be defeated.” (OB, Chapter 114, Kindle p. 1078.) 2. We don’t know how the Nightwatcher acquires Nightblood, but we do know Nale ends up with him. 3. Nale delivers Nightblood to Szeth. ANALYSIS The main sections outline my narrative. The Spoiler sections are more technical. Nightblood Basics and Mechanics I tucked these subjects in a Spoiler because most of you already know this stuff. Cultivation Fears Nightblood’s Growth Nightblood adds Investiture “over time” (I believe each time he destroys evil). The added Investiture causes Nightblood’s mind to grow: “The more investiture clumped together, the more likely – and the closer to human-level intelligence it is likely to obtain.” Brandon tells us, “Nightblood is capable of more change than Vasher assumes.” “The only clues I'm willing to give on [Nightblood’s growth] right now are the ones that are in Oathbringer.” Nightblood picks up Lift’s vocabulary quickly enough, curses and all. That suggests some growth. If Nightblood continues to be used, he will inevitably reach “human-level intelligence” and theoretically surpass it. Cultivation fears a super-sapient being of enormous destructive power with no moral compass. With or without a conscience, if used enough Nightblood will ascend. Cultivation decides Nightblood needs a moral tutor. He’s still a child who doesn’t understand abstractions like “evil.” She may believe, “Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man.” Cultivation implants Nightblood’s moral code while she can. How Nightblood Adds Investiture My best guess: Why Szeth? Szeth doesn’t trust his own moral judgment: “How was a twisted soul like his to decide who should die?” Impossible.” (OB, Chapter 118, Kindle p. 1124.) But the two Purelake scenes show exceptional discernment and judgment – when he assesses blame on the prison operator and when he “loopholes” himself to victory against other Skybreaker wannabes. Nale admires Szeth not for his combat skills but for his faithful adherence to an unforgiving moral code. Maybe Cultivation asked Nale to select Nightblood’s tutor; maybe she chose Szeth herself. Regardless, they chose well. But Szeth now navigates morality by Dalinar’s true north. As when bound by his oathstone, Szeth still avoids responsibility for his moral decisions. I believe this is unsustainable. Szeth himself must grow and learn to trust his own judgment before he can teach Nightblood who deserves to die. Cultivation Transforms Nightblood WoK describes a carved relief of “Nalan’Elin, emitting sunlight, the sword of retribution held over his head.” (Chapter 18, Kindle p. 286, bold added.) We don’t know what that sword is, maybe Nale’s Honorblade. Some posters note the idea of a “sword of retribution” fits Nightblood’s destructiveness. I think Cultivation/Nightwatcher transforms Nightblood into the Rosharan spren “Sword of Retribution.” The carved relief, still being worked on, shows the Sword’s cultural currency. “Retribution” means “deserved punishment.” I view Retribution as a subset of Just, the Skybreakers’ primary Divine Attribute. Nightblood might not technically be a highspren, because he was created differently and represents only a sliver of Justice. But I believe Cultivation/Nightwatcher gives Nightblood the ability to grant Skybreaking powers to Szeth. Nightblood does not Connect to Szeth through the Nahel bond: “Nightblood does not have the same spren bond, and so the renouncing of Oaths is not going to affect him.” As the Shard of transformation, Cultivation doesn’t need the Nahel bond (the “same spren bond”) to grant her magic to mortals. Nightblood’s existing Cognitive bond with Szeth communicates Szeth’s wishes. As a Rosharan spren (now), Nightblood can transform Stormlight into the Skybreaking powers. Why Not Another Highspren? Many posters believe Szeth does have a Nahel bond with a separate highspren. They may be right, but I think Nightblood himself is “the hidden spren who only rarely showed itself to” Szeth. (OB, Chapter 121, Kindle p. 1198.) I discuss this in the Spoiler. Conclusion Nightblood as the Sword of Retribution is not a new thought. I believe Nightblood as the living ideal of Retribution, a non-Nahel bond spren that grants Skybreaking powers and ultimately ascends, is. If this interpretation seems strained, it fits within SLA’s broader redemption arc. Why bring Szeth and Nightblood together if not to transform two mass murderers? They redeem the evil they’ve each done (like Dalinar tries to do) by destroying true evil here and now. Two predictions: EITHER – Szeth and Nightblood will ascend together. He will replace the broken Nale as Herald of Justice, wielding Nightblood the ascended Sword of Retribution. (Someone else must have predicted this by now.) OR – Instead, Szeth will achieve the Fifth Skybreaker Ideal and fully merge into Nightblood. He will become the Sword of Retribution’s Divine Conscience. (My personal vote goes to this one, if only for novelty.) Happy New Year’s, everyone! May it be a joyful, healthy, and prosperous year for all humankind! Confused
  15. I went through my OB notes and came up with some ideas I’d like to let loose. Others may have anticipated them, but if so, I didn’t notice your posts. Please take your credit. IS MRAIZE A DYSIAN? Random reasons provoke this question: 1. Spy Network. Mraize and the Ghostbloods seem as informed as any group on Roshar. We know Dysians use their hordelings as spies. 2. Unseen Actions. Mraize delivers his messages to Shallan completely unnoticed. It’s as if he disassembles then reassembles in her room where he writes his notes. 3. Mraize’s Face. Mraize’s scarred face may mask his Dysian imperfections. Here’s how Shallan describes him at their first meeting: The second time Shallan meets Mraize, she observes “his scarred face, misaligned lip, and weathered hands… he looked like someone who had repeatedly had his bones broken….” (WoR, Chapter 54, Kindle p. 628.) 4. Mraize’s Age. Mraize calls Veil “child,” like Hoid calls Shallan and Jezrien (Ahu) calls Dalinar. This appellation surprises Shallan, since she made Veil appear older: This suggests (but doesn’t prove) Mraize may be pretty old himself. (He does call Shalash “Ancient One,” but that seems more respect than an indication of relative age.) Mraize as a Dysian also explains his contact with other Shardworlds – @Overlord Jebus theorizes (correctly IMO) that Dysian hordelings will foster inter-Shardworld communication. Of course, Mraize could also be a Hoid masquerade, but for now I’ll stick with a Dysian “from Thaylenah.” AN HONORSPREN OATH? Notum tells Kaladin, “’I’ve sworn an oath myself,’ the captain said. ‘To Honor, and to the truths we follow.’” (OB, Chapter 108, Kindle p. 1017.) This causes me to wonder: Must honorspren swear an oath to become an honorspren? Is it a rite of passage like confirmation? Do some “honorspren” refuse to vow? Are these the mistspren that sail the Honor’s Path? NALE’S FIFTH OATH Nale has spoken the Fifth Skybreaker Oath, which he says means he has become “the Law.” This seems wrong. Nale’s Divine Attribute is “Just,” which means he should embody Justice, not the Law. Instead, Nale derides Justice as inferior because mercy leads to recidivism: KR orders share their Herald’s Divine Attributes. Radiant spren IMO are attracted to people with the right Primary Divine Attribute – “protect” (Honorspren), “just” (Highspren), “brave” (Ashspren), “loving” (Cultivationspren), “learned” (Truthwatcher spren), “creative” (Cryptics), “wise” (Inkspren), “resolute” (Lightspren), “dependable” (Stoneward spren), and “pious” (the three Siblings). Radiant spren are living exemplars of these Attributes. I believe the Fifth Oath fully manifests Radiant spren in the Physical Realm. They merge Spiritwebs with their bonded mortal, who becomes the living exemplar of their Primary Divine Attribute. Nale should be Justice, not the Law. Since he thinks he’s the Law, I suspect Lift did not fully heal him. IS TIMBRE ICO’S DAUGHTER? Timbre may be Ico’s daughter. Ico is the captain of the spren ship that picks up Kaladin, Shallan, Adolin, etc. at Riino’s Shadesmar lighthouse. Ico is a Lightspren, the Willshaper spren. He tells Kaladin, “My daughter used to work [at the Celebrant moneychangers] before she ran off chasing stupid dreams.” (OB, Chapter 101, Kindle p. 948.) Something about that line sounds like Timbre is his daughter and ran off, like Syl did, to bond with a mortal. Maybe her “stupid dream” is to be first to bond a Singer. That’s something a Lightspren might want to explore. Timbre attunes to “Resolution” quite a bit, the Willshaper Primary Divine Attribute. HONOR AND ODIUM’S POWER I still believe Honor’s power “makes Connections” and Odium’s power “breaks Connections.” On Roshar that generally means “people” Connections. I think the Dalinar-Venli vision shows the full extent of the powers’ difference: Odium breaks. Honor binds. Threnody Spoiler That’s what I got for now.
  16. I can't believe I didn't notice this earlier. Nale is a Skybreaker of the fifth Oath. If the Skybreakers get Plate as part of their Radiant progression, Nale should have a nice shiny set of living Shardplate.
  17. From the album General SA Art

    Law is light, and darkness does not serve it. Finally finished this! My favorite order other than the Lightweavers =) Highspren are just so cool! More KR lineup pieces to come!
  18. nale

    In an Interlude Nale encounters Ym. He says I had to look real hard to see your transgression . Which implies Nale can see past transgression like a divination ability. This may be a resonance? Or it may be a function of the 5th ideal . But it appears Nale can look at someone and divine a transgression from the past. As a Skybreaker Law is his province. So if this is not how Nale knew of Ym transgression how else could this be! Let’s discuss this !
  19. So during Jasnah Flashback In WoR .she hears a commotion and goes to investigate. She passed an unkown man talking To Nale . The man first mentions Ash “I’m worried about Ash.” “You’re worried about everything.” Jasnah hesitated in the hallway. “She’s getting worse,” the voice continued. “We weren’t supposed to get worse. Am I getting worse? I think I feel worse.” Excerpt From Words of Radiance Brandon Sanderson This material may be protected by copyright. so this guy is a Herald , we know the other is Nale. Then he references Szeth ; and u know I love all things Szeth. “Shut up.” “I don’t like this. What we’ve done was wrong. That creature carries my lord’s own Blade. We shouldn’t have let him keep it. He—” Excerpt From Words of Radiance Brandon Sanderson This material may be protected by copyright. Szeth carried Jezriens Honor blade and I feel that the creature is him Soooooo , Who is this Herald ? We know it’s not Taln ? We know it’s not Jezrien ! I’m thinking this is Kalak ? Thoughts ? Interesting fact Nale and him are both invited by Ehlokar .Could it be Ishar the god King of an area near the Aziz?
  20. Who do you guys think would win? Lord ruler has no atium. The Heralds are Stormlight boosted by Ishar. Basically Immortal Fullborn or Immortal Heralds.
  21. So I want to talk about the Skybreakers. I know that they are conflicted because of their oaths, but it doesn't seem as straight forward as "we will support the parshmen as the lawful heirs of Roshar." I don't think that the Skybreakers are going to simply start taking orders from Odium. The Fused want to eliminate humanity from Roshar and Odium seems to have promised this to them. But it seems like Shinovar was given to the human so I can't see the Skybreakers supporting an Odium/Fused assault on Shinovar. The Aimians also seem to be native to Roshar, so I can't see the Skybreakers supporting Odium over the Aimians. There are humans with Parshendi heritage. I think that the Skybreakers will have trouble working against them. This includes the Horneaters, the Herazidans, and perhaps the Natanatans and even some of the people from Jah Keved. Odium is the interloping shard, Honor and Cultivation are in some sense the native shards, so it becomes difficult to support Odium over Honor and Cultivation. The translated stele says that the Parshendi were commanded by their gods to welcome the humans, that seems to legitimize human presence on Roshar. The Skybreakers are in a tough place, but I don't think that their oaths require them to support a genocidal campaign against the humans.
  22. So - let’s talk about the Skybreakers. They are all about the law. Nale has been convinced that the law he should be following in this conflict is that of the Singers (something that he wasn’t previously convinced of, but has later decided upon). This is terrible. And makes me think he needs Lift to hug him again. Why is this terrible? Because Odium. Odium has corrupted the singers, and by proxy their law. Much as he was corrupting the Alethi, but even more pervasively. But Nale is right in this - humans aren’t exactly innocents, and their laws aren’t necessarily trustworthy. Plus, the Singers ought to be treated fairly. So what does Nale need? He needs the Geneva Conventions. Less anachronistically, he and his Skybreakers need to get outside of the Singer/Human conflict and fight for true Justice. They need to fight against war crimes. They need to protect non-combatants and punish war criminals. In this way, they would support both the humans and the Singers while foiling Odium, because what does Odium crave? What does he inspire? Hate. And hate leads to war crimes (as war crimes lead to more hate). So we need Nale to get his head together and set up the International Court of Justice.
  23. I thoroughly enjoyed reading about the Skybreaker order in OB and was hoping to start some discussion about their order with these prompts. 1. How do you feel about Brandon's decision to make Nale side with the singers? Personal Opinion: I love this development. While I would never personally reach the same decision in Nale's position, I think it fits perfectly with Skybreaker logic, follow the law above all else. Its about as logical as going on a killing spree because your master commands you. This also sets up the Skybreakers to go head to head against the Windrunners, an exciting clash between the current two most powerful Orders. 2. Will all the Skybreakers side with Nale (besides Szeth)? Personal Thoughts: All the radiants who swore to Nale have to side with him or break their oaths. Those who swore to obey the law of the land would seem to have more room for interpretation unless they have to listen to Nale's decision that the singers make the law of the land. I expect them all to side with Nale for at least the next book. 3. How will the Skybreakers get along with the Singers/Odium? Personal Thoughts: While Odium should be thrilled to get access to Skybreakers, I expect problems in an alliance between them. First, Nale isn't committed. He is still planning on training Szeth even though they are now on opposite sides of the conflict. Odium won't be happy with that. Also, Odium has started killing Radiants so does he want to kill Nale too? Finally, is the law of the singers as simple as whatever Odium says? 4.Why were the Skybreakers the only order not to betray their oaths? Personal Opinion: The Skybreakers are the order about obeying the LAW first while the other orders seem to do what is RIGHT first (though their interpretations of what is right vary widely). The other 9 orders eventually broke their oaths because they either feared destroying the world or believed they were on the wrong side of the fight. At the time of the Recreance, Honor was all about Oaths but didn't seem to care about humans which contributed to the other orders believing breaking their oaths was RIGHT. But Skybreakers still kept their oaths (many of which were probably made to Honor as the ultimate authority) because they obeyed the LAW of Honor above what is right. Honor's change also explains why the Windrunners and Skybreakers fought so much near the end of the KR. When Honor made decisions based just on oaths instead of the good of humans the Skybreakers would side with Honor (the law) and the Windrunners would do what was right.
  24. I have been trying to understand the following sentence from the letter by Amaran to Restares. English is not my first language so I am a bit confused. Doest thatmean that Nalan is communicating with Amaram or worse, directing him or is it something else completely.
  25. What follows is my current theory on how the 10 Heralds became the 10 fool's through the coarse of the Desolations. I will update this post as it evolves. I will try to provide links to all WOB. Quotes will come from the kindle versions of the books via cut and paste. I will list book, chapter, and location number. Bold will be my emphasis. Italics will be possible contradictory evidence. Number 18 here From Reddit Fantasy Bookclub Q&A with Brandon Sanderson Feb 28th, 2011 We will start with this quote which shows us all Heralds were in WOK. First, the Desolations occurred when the Heralds were sent back to Roshar after one of them broke under the torture of Odium. Second, each Herald is associated with a primary and secondary Divine Attribute. (Possibly primary from Honor, Secondary from Cultivation?) Third, the torture does not happen in the physical realm. It occurs in either the cognitive, or more likely the spiritual realm. Fourth, when Odium breaks a Herald, he is literally breaking part of that Heralds spiritual connection to the Divine Attribute. Fifth, Odium's goal was to break all the Heralds and bring about the the Everstorm, allowing him to shatter Honor and Cultivation. Sixth, breaking the Divine Attributes shifted them towards something more compatible with Odium and less compatible with Honor. This resulted in the attributes associated with the 10 Fool's. Number 19 in this WOB, says each is uniquely insane. NOTE: One of the biggliest issues with this theory is not knowing the 10 Fools attributes. Two Fools are named. Two have attributes. Cabine - He acts like a child although he is an adult. TWOK chapter 37, page 593, location 10668 Eshu - He speaks of things he does not understand in front of those who do. WOR chapter 71, page 593, location 16877 One issue I have here is that the 2 Heralds I would link these two too are both female. Paliah and Battar. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1) We have a WOB on this. Not a confirmation, but along those lines. 2) Herald. Primary Divine Attribute. Secondary Divine Attribute. Jezrien. Protecting. Leading Nale. Just. Confident Chanarach. Brave. Obedient Vedel. Loving. Healing Paliah. Learned. Giving Shalash. Creative. Honest Battar. Wise. Careful Kalak. Resolute. Builder Talenel. Dependable. Resourceful Ishar. Pious. Guiding 3) Since Odium was attempting to break the Heralds focus on their Divine Attribute, the torture most likely took place in the spiritual realm. The spren would probably know something if it took place in the cognitive realm. One thing pointing to the cognitive realm though is the fact that Taln appeared covered in condensation much like a shardblade. 4) By breaking the Herald, Odium shifted their Primary attribute to closer align with his shard and align less with Honors. This usually resulted in an almost inversion of the attribute. SPECIFICALLY I THINK ONLY THE PRIMARY ATTRIBUTE WAS BROKEN/TWISTED. Below I will show what I think the attribute shifted to after the Devine attribute. Herald. Primary Divine Attribute. Secondary Divine Attribute. Jezrien. Protecting. (Submission) Leading Nale. Just. (Arbitrary)(Judgement) Confident Chanarach. Brave. Obedient Vedel. Loving. Healing Paliah. Learned. Giving Shalash. Creative. (Destructive) Honest Battar. Wise. Careful Kalak. Resolute. (Weak-willed) Builder Talenel. Dependable. (Erratic) Resourceful Ishar. Pious. (Traitorous) Guiding These are based off of what we have seen or heard in the books so far. These are not perfect words, but the 17th shard manymind will probably come up with better. There are some subtle indications that only 9 of the 10 fool's have a strong history or mythology. Here is one concerning Lyft and pancakes. I think I subconsciously connected Lyft's silly quest to eat all 10 Pancakes with the 10 fool's. Research could not find a direct correlation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jezrien gives up on protecting humanity personally, submits to the Will of the group, and sacrifices Talenel to uphold the entire oathpact. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Nale shifts from Just- working within the accepted standards of right and wrong to Arbitrary- following the rule of law without regards to morality.....he goes straight lawful evil. From Edgedancer Chapter 9, page 596 Arcanum Unbound, location 8565 Judgement not Justice. From Edgedancer Chapter 9, page 596 Arcanum Unbound, location 8565 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shalash is pretty clear with her running around destroying art, and significantly art that depicts her and other heralds. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kalak is in no way resolute when Jezrien meets him. He is in fact very weak willed, confessing that he cannot go back. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Talenel (if it really is him) comes back a broken man, highly erratic and unable to perform his duties as the Herald of War. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ishar formed the Knights Radiant originally, he led the Bondsmiths. He was also the one who promulgated the traitorous idea that 1 Herald could support the Oathpact. From Edgedancer: And And ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 5) We know there were not literally 99 desolation. I suspect there were 9. One each time Odium broke a Herald. Then the next time that Herald would not be tortured as hard so that about her would break first. Nine also being the number of Odium I believe would work well with this. After the Oathpact was discarded, Odium let humanity rewrite Roshar's history and religion in preparation for the Final Desolation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 6) The corruption of the 9 Heralds weakened Honor, but the Knights Radiant provided some support, until the Day of Requience when they abandoned all their oaths. Honor shattered shortly after. I have to go back and find some more quotes and WOB to fully support some of this, but I will edit them in as I find them.