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Found 4 results

  1. I'm in the "can't decide" camp myself. It's a complicated issue.
  2. I don't know if I am just very late into Mistborn characters' morality discussions or if these things were really just sadly overlooked. While Stormlight characters have multiple topics analyzing them, I've found very few doing the same for Mistborn characters, with Kelsier being the one notable exception. There have been previous topics discussing Kelsier in this context such as: https://www.reddit.com/r/Mistborn/comments/7t5rdz/tfe_i_was_disappointed_in_the_ending/ My thoughts regarding the same, well, I think that the stakes as well as the context for his hatred made his actions quite understandable: the Nobles were gits, who practiced extortion, slavery, rape and mass executions. Kelsier intended to die and with his plans with the Kandra, to inspire the Skaa via the one element that Sazed recounted lasted the longest against the Lord Ruler: religion. He did have a very high opinion of himself and wanted to leave quite the legacy behind by becoming a god, he ultimately had no concrete plans for dealing with the Lord Ruler or the Inquisitors, and what he did could be seen as a form of escapism. Does this make him a bad person? I was talking with @Michael Marssen regarding the morality of characters from Stormlight and Mistborn, about Shallan & Dalinar, and the big four of the original Mistborn trilogy: Vin, Elend, Kelsier, Sazed. I will quote my thoughts on Kel, Vin and Elend from this conversation for expediency's sake ~Stormlight, Oathbringer spoiler~ But there has already been enough discussion on this character. So, I won't rehash those and instead move on two other characters who I believe should also be discussed within the same frame: the main couple, Vin & Elend Vin Vin notes herself to be a creature of instinct and in WoA muses that she isn't a judge but an executioner... or something along those lines, I forget the exact quote. The highlight here is her wholesale slaughter of the Cett soldiers while sparing only Ashweather Cett himself, intending to also kill his son Gneorndin for trying to defend his father. Elend I really feel iffy about the two executions that Elend committed: of his former friend Jastes Lekal and the Skaa soldier, Bilg. For those who've forgotten, Jastes Lekal was a fellow idealist and compatriot of Elend Venture and Telden Hasting. They often met at balls and discussed politics. After the collapse of the Final Empire, Jastes fled Luthadel to his home Dominance where he tried to implement several of Elend's ideas in governing his lands, such as freedom and political honesty, which was seen as a sign of weakness and led to his family members were culled off by the new rulers when they took control. He became unhinged and recruited an army of Koloss by paying them with fake coins to beseige Luthadel. He was caught by Elend trying to flee in the aftermath and summarily had his head lopped off. Bilg was a Skaa who was sceptical about the chances of a successful skaa rebellion. He just wanted to live. He saw through Kelsier's charisma & realized they were being led to suicide. Kelsier used him & Demoux to turn the tide of opinion by having the two duke it out by Rioting Bilg's emotions and supporting Demoux with steelpushes and ironpulls. Kelsier intended to kill him but Demoux resisted. In WoA, he gets involved in a scuffle between the Mistfallen and the other soldiers, started by Midge (actually accidentally started by Kelsier, as seen in Mistborn: Secret History) who claimed that the Mistborn were holy and chosen by the Survivor. Their general, Demoux had to interfere, punched his general in the face right when Elend joined the scene. According to the law instituted by Elend, he had to execute Bilg, even though Demoux pleaded to only throw the man in solitary. Another point of contention for me, as I mentioned, was Elend became a military dictator. Again, as I said, I understand the stakes and I do love him for his selflessness and willingness to die for his beliefs, which he displayed twice, but he also basically went democracy is for later, now we fight. And he inspired others to fight and die... um, a quality that is praised in real life too, especially in soldiers but it's one of the heroic qualities I'm most uncomfortable with. So, what did you guys feel about the original Mistborn trilogy characters?
  3. So... I'm slightly confused by this outrage that supergirl has towards anyone who has the capacity to hurt her. She by comparison could slaughter, most, anyone without breaking a sweat and yet the very idea that anyone else could harm her... well that's just not ok. By this standard I should be livid that everyone else in this world can hurt me with just about anything they pickup... The very idea that anyone would dare to hold a pair of keys in my presence or a spoon... Is this just another case of pisspoor writing that attempts to equate kyroptnite to something else that I'm missing? edit: So lena made the arguments I'd have made and Supergirl still went off claiming its not the same...
  4. I'm sure a D&D alignment thread has been posted, so if there's already one in existence, let me know. I figured that it'd be cool to re-visit post-Oathbringer. My big asterisk with these alignments is that it depends on your point of view. I'm going to look at it from the point of the Radiants (at least Dalinar and those who follow him). Kaladin- Neutral Good: By the nature of the honorspren, he'll do things that are against the letter of the law. I.e. Fighting against Sadeas/his other slave masters, (initially) agreeing to help kill Elokhar. Szeth- Neutral Good: In general, I'd say he's Neutral Good, but there's an argument that he's neutral evil (following his "masters'" instructions) or lawful good (choosing to follow Dalinar because he is a man of his word?) depending on what point in the story we're in. But I'm going settle on Neutral Good for now, as he is Pro-Dalinar's Radiants, who are in turn for saving Roshar from Odium (that's a HUGE oversimplification, but I'll go with that for now until I've thought this through/hear what people have to say). I'm probably most interested to hear people's thoughts on his alignment. Dalinar- Lawful Good: He's probably the only character I'd classify as Lawful Good. His entire character arc (especially in WOK) is learning how exemplify the positive qualities that he (as a person, man, Highprince, father, etc) claims to have. Nale- Lawful Evil: He's very interesting, but at the end of the OB, I'd say he's Lawful Evil (assuming Dalinar's Radiants are "good". Again, a major oversimplification, but for the sake of the discussion, I'll go with it). He is very much following the law in supporting the Singers, since they were the original occupants of the land. But he's also someone aligned to Odium because of this. Odium/Rayse- Neutral Evil: The big asterisk to this and any Shard is that an alignment is based off of information we have onscreen. But there are instances where he both acts exactly as the "law"/code of conduct states he must (Needing Dalinar's permission to leave his bonds), but is also super sneaky in how he interprets parts of those.. pacts (?) (His whole deal with Taravangian at the end/manipulating Dalinar into a position where he (Dalinar) could become Odium's champion. Honor/Tanavast- Neutral Good: Again, sticking with the asterisk on this one haha. But Honor's ability to do "good" is constrained (or arguably boosted, depending on your perspective) by retraints he places on both himself and other (i.e. the Oathpact, Radiant Ideals, etc). So while those parts are "lawful", they can still be twisted. Shallan- Chaotic Good: Now, Shallan post-OB will be interesting, but at least in WoR and OB, her multiple personalities have multiple effects on different characters and situations. These effects are now always foreseen/thought of by Shallan/Radiant/Veil. Nighblood- Chaotic Neutral: This one could go either True Neutral, or any of the Chaotic options. I'm using Chaotic Neutral because the instances we've seen Nightblood do stuff. Adolin- Chaotic Good: He's pro-Dalinar' Radiants, but he'll pretty much do whatever he wants (i.e. killing Sadeas haha). Jasnah- Neutral Good: She's pro-Dalinar's Radiants. I'm tempted to put her under Lawful Good because of how logic dictates most of her decisions, but I feel like she's spent too much of her life spurning authority in general to be classified as such. Please share your thoughts/add other characters (or rip my arguments to shreds as the Internet was designed haha). But these were just a few thoughts I've been thinking about and wanted to see what people think.
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