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Found 20 results

  1. I've been thinking that Moash and Kaladin are maybe a bit like opposites; they were in a similar situation -- being in the bridge crews after tragedy befalling them or their families -- and Moash clings to revenge and he has that singular focus, while Kaladin turns away from revenge and arrives at the realization "I will protect even those I hate." (Speaking of which; isn't that such a totally mind-blowing statement?? I don't know if I could do that.) It seemed to me like they arrived at a similar crossroads and took opposite paths. Turning aside from selfish concerns to selfless ones. Thoughts?
  2. Ok, so my theory is that Vyre will become a Radiant of the Order of Skybreakers. In terms of Evidence to back this up, we have the fact that Vyre is very focused on Vengeance, and for bringing Justice to Elhokar for past crimes. We Have the fact that when Kaladin was going to kill Amaram, Syl told him that he wasn’t a Skybreaker so he shouldn’t, however Vyre DID decide to kill Elhokar. We have the fact that both Vyre and Nale came to the decision that the parshmen are the rightful rulers of Roshar, so Nale is set up perfectly to mentor Vyre. Also, we have information in the Epigraphs that the Skybreakers and the Windrunners are always at odds, so adding this extra layer to the Kaladin/Vyre confrontation will be quite interesting. Finally, Vyre is being set up as the new Assasin in White, so if he also became a Skybreaker it would make sense. So what do you guys think? Is Vyre some other Order of Radiant?
  3. I have been rereading Oathbringer and I am starting to notice a few connections between the various Moash parts that may relate to Odium's plans. First, the Fused are slowly going crazy because they have been reborn so many times. Also, it seems that the Fused do not have as fine of control over their surges as the corresponding Radiant orders. The Fused are also becoming a liability because they are being reborn at what seems like a greater rate than previous Desolations. Which means that Odium needs a replacement. Which leads us to Moash. First, the Fused are collecting Shardblades and Shardplate. Secondly, Moash kills Jezrien with a dagger that has a gem in the pommel and the wounds bleeds black smoke(similar to nightblood), we also know that the blade is functionally similar to hemalurgy. The gem in the pommel also lights up after Jezrien dies. So the blade is stealing something and storing it in the gem. Also, Odium only has nine orders of Fused and seems to be missing one for the Surge of Adhesion, which is a primarily Honor based Surge. Given that the Heralds have a direct connection to Honor through themselves which is channeled through the Honorblades, I think Odium might be trying to gain the ability for his forces to use Adhesion. Not in the Windrunner sort of way, but more like a Bondsmith. If he uses the dagger to give Moash the direct connection to Honor so that he can use the Honorblade with levels of power magnitudes larger than a Knights Radiant. Moash would then be able to act as basically a dark Bondsmith and unite Odium's forces. Which leads us to my next point: Odium wants and needs to replace the Fused. I think he wants to do this by making Voidbinding Radiants. I think the direct connection to Honor might be able to heal the shardblades long enough for Odium to corrupt the spren and then bond them to Singers or Humans. Which would give the Void Radiants less checks on their power than a Knights Radiant and more Surges and more control of said Surges than a Fused. Sure, Odium's power might burn through them quicker, but he can always get more people to bond. They could also be used to discredit Dalinar's Radiants through false flag attacks on allies. And with Moash's connection to Honor's investure, the Void Radiants could be powered without having to rely on stored investure. It would also fit with the whole Odium is the new Vorin god theory that has been floating around.
  4. I believe Odium’s forces – led by Moash – will kidnap Shallan. I think Odium needs either a Lightweaver or a Cryptic for some reason – perhaps to “re-make” Re-Shephir, whose captivity seems to have diminished her. Kaladin and Adolin lead Shallan’s rescue attempt. Kaladin secures Shallan, and Adolin fights furiously to allow Kaladin and Shallan to escape. He demands Kaladin leave him and take Shallan to safety. With no other choice, Kaladin finally speaks the Fourth Oath – (IMO) “I will protect the one I can save.” That’s the summary; here are the details. There’s a bit of evidence here and there, but, needless to say, this post is mostly invention, a tale. Foreshadowing Kaladin’s faced this situation before, when the Fused wound Adolin in Shadesmar. “Leave me,” Adolin said, coughing.” (OB, Chapter 117, Kindle p. 1116.) But Kaladin couldn’t leave him and “couldn’t say those Words. He wasn’t strong enough.” (OB, Chapter 118, Kindle p. 1132.) I believe Kaladin will have a second chance. He will say the Fourth Oath this time. I do not predict Adolin will die (though that’s possible). Maybe he’ll be an Edgedancer by then and escape himself. But Kaladin IMO will leave Adolin to protect Shallan, the one he can save. Odium’s Need for Cryptic The best evidence Odium needs a Cryptic is the OB Epilogue, where Hoid bonds one. Hoid notices the Fused breaking down the palace, as if searching for something. The Fused are not keen on Radiant spren of any type. But to me this shows surprising dedication to find Elhokar's Cryptic. The Fuseds’ motivation is unclear, but I link it to Shallan’s encounter with Re-Shephir. Shallan and Re-Shephir Re-Shephir’s captivity traumatized it. When it meets Shallan, Re-Shephir wants to replace Pattern and bond Shallan: Re-Shephir now knows Shallan as well as Shallan knows it, the perfect environment for bonding. Shallan says Re-Shephir is like a “wrong” creationspren. I suspect Cryptics are like the “right” creationspren. IOW, creationspren form the base of both Re-Shephir and Cryptics, which is why Shallan attracts them. I speculate Re-Shephir needs to be “Re-Made” - it’s become too fearful. I envision two possibilities – start from scratch with a new Cryptic or bond Re-Shephir to a Lightweaver to stabilize it. Either way, Pattern and Shallan will be natural Odium targets. Moash Why Moash? Odium clearly has plans for him. His star rises among the Fused when he kills Jezrien and accepts the Honorblade and the name Vyre. (Will he form a relationship with Lady Leshwi?) The human Moash can scout and enter places Singers can’t readily go. Five Singers Moash helped and fought with “want to be near” him – Khen, Pal, Nam, and two others. (OB, Chapter 122, Kindle p. 1222.) I see them forming the rudiments of a Singer Bridge Four. They are a natural strike force to steal Shallan. If Moash (or Odium) noticed Kaladin’s agony at seeing his friends kill one another, this group will be hard for Kaladin to deal with. Adolin must take the larger role in the fight because Kaladin may not be able to kill his friends. I don’t think this will be the last Kaladin-Moash confrontation. I believe Moash retains his loyalty and friendship to Kaladin on simmer regardless of what he thinks of other humans and their society. In the end, I think this one Connection will be enough to cause Moash to waver. Only Brandon knows if Moash dies or changes sides again. Conclusion All of this is raw but, IMO, reasonable speculation. Something to ponder as a possibility, nothing more.
  5. Kinda just spitballing here, but could the dagger itself just serve as like a bridge from the spirit web of a person to the gem in the pommel? Like maybe the gem is the detachable containment unit and once charged with whatever it is, you don’t “spike” yourself but maybe you could swallow a newly made artificial gem-heart of the “spren” of Jezrien?
  6. By now, we know it is possible to actually kill the Heralds and not just kill them through the use of a dagger from Odium's investiture and that Moash has been entrusted with it along with Jezrien's Honorblade. But it kind of strikes me as unusual that they only armed him with the honorblade after he has already murdered Jezrien. Is there any implication with him having it while he tried to kill the herald? I know that killing Jezrien is meant to be seen as more of a test of his loyalty/passion, but what if it wasn't an actual test but a requirement? What if they have a plan with Moash? One that might possibly involve killing all of the heralds and bonding with all of their honorblades? We already have a WoB that says a Radiant CAN bond with an honorblade, therefore giving him access to additional surges or making his surges a bit stronger if he has the honorblade of his own order. Can you imagine how powerful one man can become if he bonds with all ten of the honorblades? Wouldn't that make him the closest one to actually becoming Honor? What if this is Odium's plan for him all along? To have Moash gather all of the honorblades, then gather all of the splinters. Only now, he would become a twisted version of Honor, maybe Loyalty? Honoring his debt of gratitude from Odium? Seems to me that Moash's whole journey focuses about his revenge and lack of honor (betraying Kaladin). Is he fated to realize his mistakes and actually become the new shard of Honor? Not to mention also that the original Parshendi were also from Honor. What if they were working against Odium to restore their old god? What do you guys think?
  7. I think the dagger Moash uses does not 'kill' the herald so much as it somehow traps their soul (identity?) inside the gem on the hilt. From the book: Was it done this way to keep the current state of the Oathpact intact? The other Heralds POV we get mentions they sense the other's loss Does this means that they could somehow be freed from the gem later, rescuing/restoring them? Naturally, if any of this is true, I think it's possible we may see up to an additional 9 versions of such daggers with the appropriate gemstone on the hilt. Thoughts?
  8. From the album ShiroXIX's Art

    Moash is my favorite character and I will fight you.
  9. Hi guys. So I've seen a lot of people talk about Moash in threads so far. So I decided to start one on him. Here you can talk about what you think about his charachter. Weather what he has done is morally right. Moash, to me, represents what Kaladin could have become. They are both so similar and one of their biggest differences is a choice. Kaladin chose not to let his past rule him. While Moash let what Roshone and the king had done rule him. He let his past control him. I am of the opinion that Moash should be killed in this book. He has already had his second chance but instead of taking it he turned against bridge four. And later he joined the voidbringers and killed Elhokar. He let vengeance become his life. And when he fulfilled it he felt less fulfilled. What do you guys think?
  10. The lives of Kaladin, Moash, and Elhokar were placed on a collision course for tragedy after The Roshone Affair. In this event we infer that Moash's silversmith grandparents were imprisoned, and later died in prison, based on the greed of Roshone who used his influence over King Elhokar (in charge of Kholinar due to the absence of his father and Dalinar) to carry out the plot. When Dalinar was alerted to the disaster details were suppressed and Roshone was exiled. This single critical event would have a domino effect resulting in: the death of Moash's family and embittering of Moash the exile of Roshone to Hearthstone and the eventual levying into the army and death of Tien (destroying Kaladin's "innocence") Kaladin and Moash uniting in a temporary treasonous plot against Elhokar Kaladin temporarily losing his bond with Syl and nearly turning against Dalinar Kaladin and Moash experiencing a falling out, resulting in Moash being exiled from Bridge 4, and ultimately joining The Singers The death of Elhokar at Moash's hands. Many classic literary tragedies tend to have a critical miscommunication or misunderstanding at their root. There is also often a single antagonistic character whose manipulative or evil actions result in the downfall of others. I believe Queen Aesudan, not King Elhokar, was ultimately responsible for the death of Moash's family. Elhokar however, displaying his usual characteristics of loving and protective husband, along with his propensity to trust the wrong people, chose to assume responsibility for his wife's actions. This sets the perfect recipe for a tragedy wherein Kaladin and Moash are set on a path of vengeance based on the incomplete assumption that Elhokar was entirely responsible for the tragedies in their life. Moash ends up killing a person who did not bear true responsibility for his plight, and indeed Moash is now serving one who did bear responsibility for the evils done to him (Queen Aesudan, likely already acting under the influence of Odium+Unmade). I can't really prove this was likely the case, but it is a fun thought to consider, and it would connect a lot of clues and offer an important twist on the story. A couple possible clues: 1 - Approximate Time of the Roshone Affair This quote places the time of the Roshone Affair pretty accurately. It occurs in the brief interval where the Listeners had been discovered and King Gavilar had developed an interest in them, but before Gavilar had been assassinated. Perhaps one year or less before the assassination? Dalinar was likely in an alcoholic bender at this time instead of watching over and instructing Elhokar, another tragic "what if?" element to the event. The second half of this quote is interesting because at first glance the "someone he trusted" is heavily implied to be Roshone. It is worded just loosely enough though that Dalinar could be referring to a third party. 2 - If Aesudan was suspected of being involved in this affair, it explains certain reactions by Dalinar and Jasnah. We are never given a specific reason why Jasnah was arranging for an assassination of Queen Aesudan via Liss, nor why she eventually retreats from her request opting for further observation. If Jasnah highly suspected that Aesudan bore responsibility for the Roshone Affair (but wasn't completely certain due to Elhokar covering for her), that may be enough to make Jasnah highly consider an assassination, but then decide it needed further observation. We learn later that Jasnah considers the stability of her family's rule to be of critical importance, thus her recognizing that Aesudan is both a terrible ruler/person and also has the blind loyalty of Elhokar would establish Aesudan as a clear risk to the family's ability to maintain power and not coming into internal conflict with one another. We also are given heavy hints early on that Dalinar does not trust Aesudan. Mraize's letter indicates that Dalinar's trusted soldier Bordin was purposefully left behind in Kholinar to keep an eye on the Queen (Bordin later leaves the city to deliver Taln and the shardblade to Dalinar). Dalinar also seems distressed that Navani has left Kholinar, hoping that she would provide leadership advice to Aesudan. Navani declares however that the Queen is politically competent (and reading between the lines, likely ignores Navani's advice entirely). We later learn that Aesudan is a cruel and petty ruler who has been under the influence of Odium's Unmade for an indeterminate period of time. 3 - Characters of Elhokar and Roshone What was done to Moash's grandparents was monstrous, but in hindsight it doesn't seem to match the characteristics of either Elhokar or Roshone, the two characters we are told are responsible. Elhokar was a pretty terrible ruler for much of the time we are with him, he trusts the wrong people, and occasionally displays a temper. Even so, agreeing to throw some elderly artisans in the palace dungeons merely to financially benefit an ally seems much more cold-hearted than the Elhokar we know. If however Aesudan was responsible for throwing some inconvenient darkeyes in dungeon, it is fitting with Elhokar's character that he would try to protect her and refuse to think ill about her. Roshone is another character who while greedy, underhanded, and unpleasant doesn't seem to sink to the level of murderous to achieve his goals. Indeed in the Hearthstone flashbacks Roshone seem to rely on bullying and peer pressure to try to get back Lirin's stolen spheres, rather than directly threatening his family or imprisoning them. Lirin notes that he is of high enough Nahn to have rights against unlawful imprisonment by Roshone, but the events of the Roshone Affair clearly demonstrate a flaw with that line of thinking. The fact that Lirin and Hesina seem to have grown accepting of Roshone's presence by the events of Oathbringer may indicate that Roshone isn't as malicious as has been suggested. Perhaps Roshone originally proposed an underhanded scheme to pressure Moash's parents into joining his monopoly, but it was Aesudan who chose to escalate matters into imprisoning them? 4 - Elhokar's Cryptic Elhokar had attracted the attention of a Cryptic (liespren) and was on the path to becoming a Lightweaver before his tragic end. We'll never know for certain what specific lies Elhokar had been telling himself that attracted a Cryptic ("I am a good and effective King" seems one painful possibility). His uncompromising belief that his wife was a good person and just ruler seems very likely to have been one of them though. During the infiltration of Kholinar when he otherwise displayed traits of a good leader he repeatedly refused to consider the possibility that Aesudan was responsible for the situation in the city. Admitting this would likely have been one of his Truths for a Lightbringer oath. Thus completes the tragedy of Elhokar, his greatest flaw and the seed of his downfall was loving and trusting his wife too much. 5 - Random Quote That Probably Means Nothing Behold the offhand reference to a card game that Lirin makes when Roshone first arrives at Hearthstone: "The tower" is commonly used as a symbol of House Kholin, it and a crown are the chapter header image for Dalinar. Mentioning the Queen in contrast to the tower here would be a fantastic wink from Brandon if did turn out that the Queen (Aesudan), not the Tower (Elhokar) was responsible for the Roshone affair and its fallout. Or it might mean nothing at all
  11. This is a theory founded on Moash's last acts in Oathbringer, and built considering that Odium is in desperate need of a champion that cannot lose. The theory is really pretty simple; What if Odium had Moash kill Jezrien, and gives him Jezriens sword, not just for the sake of killing him or for poetic symbolism, but because he intends to have Moash take Jezriens place in the Oathpact? Becoming a man that can be killed Physically only to be sent to 'damnation' with the only way out being the conscious act of betraying mankind (something Moash seems all too comfortable with)? The main queries for this theory are both how and why Odium would do this. The how could be done in a few ways, using the knife that killed jezrien as a hemalurgic spike is the most messy and obvious, the gem on the knife might also be used for this, or might also have its own purpose. The next is somehow having Moash absorb Jezrien's soul and meld with it, making them basically the same individual, and thus making Moash=Jezrien=Herald, if you guys can think of other ways that this may be achieved than please explain, I would love to hear your theories. The why is also rather simple, Odium needs a champion, and he needs one that cannot lose, he had a planned in place for this already, Dalinar fusing with the thrill entirely would have given him an unstoppable force for battle and ruthless tactics, undefeatable in combat through sheer skill, knowledge, and decisiveness. This theory suggests a back up plan, a champion that is an immovable object, if he can jury rig Moash into a Herald than that gives him both an immortal champion and someone to always hold the door open for his minions, because the only way for the ancient voidbringers to leave Damnation is for one of the Heralds to crack and manifest on Roshar to either escape or to willingly bring a desolation (the circumstances to the requirements for this are unclear, do they have to begin a desolation to manifest or does their manifestation begin the desolation?) But either way Moash could just keep coming back. with both Jezriens soul and his sword in hand I feel like this is an interesting next step for Odium, perhaps he even intended it for Dalinar, but is using a promising new tool in his stead due to lack of options or desperation
  12. In a re-read of Oathbringer, I discovered the following little quote, from Moash' POV: What this strongly suggests, to me, is that Moash at least knows how to see Damnation and the Tranquiline Halls in the sky. The two phrases aren't generic, like our human description of the Heavens; they are specific places which are distinct from each other and can be seen. We're pretty much certain Braize is Damnation, and also another planet in the Greater Roshar system. This means that somebody who knows what they are doing could spot it on a clear night (when the geometry is right), just as easily as one of us could spot Mars or Venus. Presumably the same could be said about Ashyn. This strikes me as an indication of a couple of things: 1) At least some of the Rosharan humans were originally from Ashyn. This is not a surprise, nor is it something I would seriously contest, but this is another point in favor of it. The Tranquiline halls were (are) Ashyn. 2) At least some people on Roshar know this, to some extent. It's not at all clear how much of the astronomy they've managed to put together, but it sounds like they have at least a couple of strong hints. I'm not completely sure about this, because I vaguely remember some comments about the Tranquiline Halls becoming Damnation, but it's easy to see the elements mixing in various ways. I don't think it rules out at least some people remembering that they were separate places, and even where they would appear in the sky.
  13. Whoooo boy! Just got through my first read of OB last night (dang grad school papers!) and I have about 1,001 questions. But here's one for now. I've seen a lot of discussion regarding what exactly the dagger that was used to...something...Jezrien was and how it functioned. But I haven't seen anyone ask yet why Moash was chosen by the Fused or likely by Odium himself to....something... Jezrien. If it was merely a function of the knife's power being needed to be used on Jezrien then seemingly anyone could have used it, no? Why then would such an important task fall to a wild card like Moash? It appears to be a test of sorts to see where Moash's loyalties truly lie, but is it that simple, or is there something more afoot? It seems to great a risk on the part of Odium to give the task to a human who he has less control over. I don't really have an answer. Just the question. Any thoughts?
  14. So Moash was the character I was most interested in reading of in Oathbringer and his chapters were the first I've read in the book. .....it wasn't what was expecting, and really they left me more confused than excited. He started off like a boss, taking down a Fused and showing why he was Kaladin best man but then, well..... how could someone a competent, rational, and intelligent as Moash work towards the destruction of his own species? Why would he willingly aid the Voidbringers? I was expecting a Radiant and instead I got a sombre Uncle Ruckus. The only way that I could half understand his logic was to apply what I understood of racism and how criminality, deviance, hopelessness, and self hatred could result from the pressures of systemic racism. So, some questions: why is he becoming so emotionless? Truly, I don't understand his muted reaction to the world. The voidbringers describe his as a man of passion but....why? He's generally cold but for a few moments of rage and violence. What's with the crazy laughing fit when he reached the lumberyard? Is the voice in his head telling him that he did nothing wrong his voice or Odium's? Is there any hope for redemption or greater self realization for my boy? Please help me to understand
  15. Towards the end of Oathbringer, Moash was given a special knife with which he killed Jezrien and was later given the Herald's shardblade. With Jezrien being the first Herald to die a true death (which probably means he cannot be resurrected), Is Moash going to the the newchampion of Odium?
  16. The Radiants have begun their order. So far we have 5 who we know have sworn there oaths. But is there an actual counter to each hero in our villains? The rule is that they're motivations are similar to our heros but uniquely twisted. For Dalinar we have Taravangian who seeks to Unite in the most twisted way possible and also gathers visions granted by a higher power (Moelach in his case) He unites BY destroying, therefore anti bond smith For Kaladin we have Moash, someone who has also had family killed by the light eyes but seeks to kill those he hates, breaks his word to protect the Kholin family, and ACCEPTED shards where Kaladin did not. It's these two that are the clearest. As for Jasnah I would have to say one of the worldhopping ghost bloods since in theory she too can(has?) world hopp. Mraize perhaps but it seems flimsy I think each character will have a Rosharin counter. Then of course there is Eshonai and her sister, one who sought peace, vs one who did not, one who was tricked by the other to embrace Odium. While her sister embraced it long before. Perhaps it is not as cut and dry as this, but it works well so far, im not sure about Shallan, Renarin, or Lift yet.
  17. Aren't they so ADORABLE? Don't you just wanna hug one of them?(though you shouldn't hug Moash, he might stab you with his spear)
  18. So, just thought I would bring up this post to discuss the secret groups throughout Roshar. List of Groups - and Members: The Sons of Honor (Reference Page 1060) Gavilar (deceased) Restares (Leader?) Amaram Ghostbloods Thaidakar (Possibly leader?) Kabsul (deceased) Lin Davar (deceased) Luesh (deceased) Mraise Iyatil Veil (Shallan) The Diagram (Reference Page 905) Taravangian Mrall Adrotagia Dova (runs the Silent Gatherers) Graves Danlan Moash (newest member) Shin Shamanate Szeth (Former member - was truthless - now a Skybreaker in training) Possibly extinct group: Envisagers Please let me know if I'm missing any members and I will update the main list. Also, we should discuss their goals and motives - to get a better idea of what's going on. *EDIT* Some formatting issues.
  19. Call me paranoid, but I just don't trust these two. (Moash and Danlan). To be clear, I'm not implying in any way shape or form that I think they are working together. I can see Moash being set up to betray Kaladin. Having said that I was blindsided (Brandon'd) by Denth and Tonk Fah. But Danlan, she just does not sit well with me. She rocks up, bats her eyelashes at Adolin, and gets a prime spying position in Team Kholin headquarters handed to her. I smells a rat.