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Found 40 results

  1. Okay, I am a new fan. I read and finished the first three books starting in December of 2020. My friend introduced them to me, and I fell in love pretty quickly. After I finished the third book, and while trying to get ahold of Rhythm of War (I am now reading it, I got an ebook since the paperback is still a long way off) (and there will be no spoilers for the limited part I've read of it), I fist finally looked online to what others thought of these great books. I tried to of course avoid any Rhythm of War spoilers, and think I entirely avoided them, but perhaps Moash's haters are affected by the book, I don't know. Anways, now to get to the point of this : I was flipping shocked by all the Moash hate. Like saying he should die. Saying he was the worst person ever. Hating every aspect of him. Keep in mind, the only book fanbase I am part of is ASOIAF, a fan base where Tywin storming Lannister has fans, so even the concept of everyone hating one character is impossible coming from that base. The most hated character in ASOIAF is probably Cersei, and even she has defenders or at least some nuance to the discussions involving her. And by the way, hated is relative, they like her as a character often, just hate her as person lol. Anyways, I came away from the first 3 books with, quite seriously, 0 hate toward Moash. I thought his actions were disappointing. He made the wrong decisions, and I see him as being written as a mirror for Kaladin, a Kaladin who decided to give into hate and revenge rather than protect and save. However, I'm not Kaladin. I understand Moash. I understand desiring revenge. I want to be Kaladin, I reach to be someone like Kaladin, but far too often do I end up seeing things like Moash does. Again, I don't know what happens in the 4th book, but..Moash through book 3 doesn't look a whole lot different than super popular characters like Tyrion or Daenerys or Arya in ASOIAF. I don't want to spoil anything in case people haven't read those books, but they have done things that I would argue are less forgivable than Moash. Half of American media, Moash would be a hero. John Wick kills hundreds for revenge. Moash just killed one dude. LIke, so much of American media glorifies characters who look...a lot like Moash. Revenge obsessed. Punishing those who have wronged or hurt them. There was a scene in the third book, when Moash first kind of goes over to the other side, and I thought it was hella realistic. He hates Alethi society, and he has a good reason to hate it. I personally think the fused are worse, and obviously Odium is worse; but...Moash doesn't know that. At least I don't think he does, from how he has been written so far. He's a lost soul. Someone who know longer can tell right from wrong, as his life has been tainted by people, that from his perspective, have acted unquestionably wrong, and yet are allowed to continue to exist, don't lose anything from their wrong actions, while his grandparents, and him by extension, have suffered despite in the past doing nothing wrong (now he has done wrong things, but...in the past). Now to get to an even more controversial opinion. I think Moash will have a redemption arc at some points. There are 6 more books after the one I'm currently written, and Moash being brought to his lowest point in many ways mirrors Kaladin, Dalinar, and Shallan being brought low. I mean, I'm sorry, but Dalinar has done way worse things (to the point I've read) than Moash has. Yet, he is redeemed. storm, if Dalinar can be redeemed, literally anyone can be redeemed in this universe. And I see Moash as probably eventually coming around, in fact I think Kaladin's ultimate form (whatever that may be) may be centrally located around saving Moash. Or perhaps Moash himself will come to that realization. I see the potential there anyways for a lot of redemptive things happening around Moash. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but although Brandon Sanderson does not border the line along black and white with gray characters as well as GRRM, he does have many of those aspects in his writing, and a lot of the characters could indeed be seen as gray. Now to get into what I really do like about Moash. One thing I loved, absolutely loved about The Way of Kings, is that Kaladin and Bridge 4 were so decidedly unimportant for large sections of the book. While Dalinar and Adolin were involved in heavy politics, Kaladin was just trying to save a group of 30ish men from death, and didn't care about the larger struggle nearly as much. I loved also that they were from the lower rungs of society, not at the top like Dalinar, Adolin, and Shallan (although not as high as the others). However, and perhaps unsurprisingly, they moved out of those ranks. By the beginning of Rhythm of War, all of them are important. They are radiants, they have moved up the rungs of society. Kaladin is essentially almost a prince a this point. Moash, in his chapters in Oathbringer, brought back at least some of what I loved about the Kaladin's chapters in the first book. As well, other members of Bridge 4 also brought some of that back. I think my favorite section of the book was the part where we just got Bridge 4, and not Kaladin's PoV. I loved it. Moash also brought at least some more nuance to the other side, much like Eshonai had in the previous book, and Venli did as well in Oathbringer. Tehy aren't just evil dark beings without thinking. When Moash helps train the Singers, it reminded me of Kaladin so much, and I actually wish that Sanderson had dived more into the relationship between Moash and the Singers. Given him some hope, some goodness. I actually think the writing doesn't have enough nuance so far, to be honest, Moash is too dark at the point we left him. Granted, he is probably bonded with a voidspren now? And we know from Eshonai and Venli that can effect your personality a lot. Finally, and I want this to be clear. Alethi society is incredibly unfair, incredibly unequal, and most of our main characters are from the upper class of that society. Moash is right about the injustices of that society. Kaladin has seemingly backed off on being angry at that society, but...they've done nothing to deserve him backing off. Things are still unfair. Things are still unequal. Granted Dalinar is changing things, so 'yay' I guess, but...in the injustices in that society aren't gonna storming evaporate overnight. Moash's hatred and not getting over those wrongs is UNDERSTANDABLE. I think one of the problems I see from the people who hate Moash is, quite frankly, they are probably white. They were born with white privilege. They don't flipping get it. Kaladin, and even more so, Moash, were born to a minority, a legally discriminated group, at that. Their society is like....worse, and more unequal than the United States in the 60's, and y'all expecting everyone to be a heavenly being like Kaladin? Kaladin's forgiveness of the higher ups in society is flipping Jesus like in his ability. Well y'all, I'm not Jesus. Are you? Can you forgive that easily. Like actually, the people who have wronged you in your life, can you instantly forgive them? Would you be able to let things go, save thoses who had hurt you, like Kaladin. I would guess that is a ridiculously rare, like over the top ridiculously rare percent of people who can do that. We are all Moash, we aren't Kaladin. I'm done. Out. Finish. Enjoy. lol. Tear me apart if you will. But turning the other cheek is not easy, and never has been. Very few people can actually do it.
  2. From the album ShiroXIX's Art

    Moash is my favorite character and I will fight you.
  3. DO IT! POUR IT ALL OUT HERE. Earlier I thought this 'Voidbringer' would come around but now, uh, no way I would see that happening anytime. But the way he talks about plans to Odium, something is really unsettling about him. Anyway hate him with Damnation's name. This man can only be redeemed in form of death.
  4. Warning: wall of text, privilege, systemic social issues Spoilers: complete Cosmere works, up to and including Rhythm of War I’m going to lay out what I see as an underlying thesis and theme of the various depictions of anger/vengeance/redemption/justice in the Stormlight Archive. My positionality in approaching this issue is that of a well-off, well-educated, cis-het white male, so keep that in mind any time I make an assertion that contradicts your lived experience. I expect that to happen, and can and should be challenged for it where warranted. I’d like to start with the concept of redemption, which is a strong theme of the Stormlight Archive, and more broadly speaking Brandon’s works in general. It’s important to separate our extra-textual understanding of Brandon as a religious person, because while that can inform his writing, it’s important to treat the text on its own explicit and meta-narrative levels without resorting to ‘because the writer is ___________’. All text has its own purpose the writer intends, as well as possibly contradictory understandings some or many readers form as they engage with the text. So, many characters of the Stormlight Archive are either in some process of redemption or have the ability to undergo a process of redemption: Dalinar, Moash, Szeth, Shallan (amongst many others) have either explicit harmful actions in their backstory or some kind of ‘low point’ to climb from. Whether that is specifically due to their own conscious choices varies, but the idea of redemption is present throughout the whole text. I was struck by the assertion in the latest Shardcast that ‘redemption is not something you deserve’, which I think is apropos here. To reduce it to its simplest form: you cannot ‘make up’ for killing someone. There is no price you can pay that is worth the pain of that cut-off life to those who are left behind. Questions of fairness cannot enter into a discussion of ‘redemption’. I teach a variety of subjects to middle school students, both music (my specialty), as well as religious studies, ethics, and health education (all kind of wrapped up in one course). One of the ideas we discuss frequently is that it is really problematic to answer the question ‘what is good?’ or ‘what does it mean to be a good person?’ No one would think positively of someone who walks into a room and says ‘Yes, I am a good person!’ We would interpret that as bragging, covering for hidden flaws, and various other negative connotations. So, then, what is ‘good’? What does it mean to be in the process of redemption? In judging this, we can take some textual evidence for what the Stormlight Archive envisions. Dalinar at one point states that ‘a hypocrite is just someone who is in the process of changing’ (paraphrase mine). I think this is perhaps the most obvious lampshading of the text’s understanding of redemption. Dalinar acknowledges that inconsistency is not a flaw of the process, it is an integral sign that redemption is possible. Only by acting counter to the way one used to can you demonstrate a true change - after all, if it’s not visible and clear to understand, you haven’t really changed. Another element to this process is the importance of choice. The Stormlight Archive, in spite of the strong ties to the typical ‘prophecy/future-sight’ approach of much epic fantasy, goes to significant lengths to show the critical impact of the free will of individuals. The fact that Elhokar is cut down at the very beginning of his journey towards what we might consider (potential) heroism by an individual who has begun a downwards arc of villainy demonstrates that choice matters. An individual has far-reaching and irreversible consequences on the lives they touch. Once freed from the blind obedience to the Oathstone, Szeth could easily have chosen to end his life permanently in dealing with the trauma of acknowledging his pain and the consequences of his actions. But he did not. I think this goes a long way towards contextualizing why we react so differently to the various characters (who are or have been pretty terrible people). Dalinar is someone who was, objectively speaking, a monster. He was a war criminal, a sadist, and a butcher, responsible for hundreds of deaths at his own hands, and thousands more committed under his direct orders, including all manner of non-combatants, who were bystanders in an aggressive war of conquest where their families were trying to resist what they saw as an invader. This is the kind of person that anyone would be justified in taking pleasure or relief if they were to be executed for their crimes. The amazing thing about Dalinar as a character is that the easy path would be one where he continues to drink himself into oblivion, especially once he regains his memories. We almost get that in Oathbringer. Having gone through all that he has gone through, knowing what he knows about the person he used to be, he could abdicate his positions, insist he be jailed or executed, and attempt to go for what we might consider a typical form of accountability. But he doesn’t. He chooses to live with his pain, and chooses in spite of that pain to attempt better. There is no forgiveness. He can’t and doesn’t expect it. Forgiveness is a demonstration by the wronged that they are strong in spite of the pain, not an absolution for the guilty. Now we can contrast this with Moash. Moash is justified in feeling anger towards Roshone and Elhokar for the injustices committed against his family. He has experienced a similar loss to Kaladin, Teft, and others who have all suffered at the hands of the nobility. He feels incredible pain, and seeks methods to redress those wrongs. And so he chooses to attempt (and of course, eventually succeed) at taking the lives of those who have taken so many others. What is interesting about Moash is that his choice is one that in fact copies what was done to him. The way it is written makes it clear that Moash is another tragic event in an endless cycle of tragic events. His choice continues the cycle, in contrast to Dalinar’s, which attempts to alter the cycle. It’s worth noting that although Moash succeeds in ending Elhokar’s life, he does nothing himself to address the possibility of another ‘Moash’ happening in the future. Jasnah talks a good game about changing the way the monarchy works, but that cannot be laid at Moash’s feet (we’re not here to take away her agency). After getting his vengeance, Moash goes on to experience the result of giving up his emotion to Odium, feeling vacant, and outwardly pursuing a course of extreme nihilism, attempting to encourage others to seek oblivion. It wouldn’t be hard to imagine Moash’s ideal end goal becoming the nothingness that we might remember from Ruin’s viewpoints in Mistborn. So Moash chooses a path that brings him some kind of warped form of peace, but certainly drastically alters how others perceive him, as well as inflicting another cycle of pain on those left behind (we can already seen the results of this in how Gavinor envisions his future as a warrior in Rhythm of War). But, for better or (especially in this case) worse, Moash’s choice matters. From the comparison of these two viewpoints, let’s turn towards Kaladin and the Knights Radiant in general. The text has gone out of its way to show that the Radiants are flawed. Both in past and current incarnations, oaths have been broken, injustice has been allowed to continue, and even those chosen for Radiance almost by necessity exhibit near-fatal flaws. Kaladin suffers from mental health issues, trauma, and an almost crippling inability to let others take responsibility instead of him. Syl is constantly trying to work with him on how to take that drive, that pain, and turn it into action to help and protect others. And he frequently fails - boy, how does he fail! In spite of that failure, we get great moments where he chooses the hard way, standing up for his beliefs in spite of his failure. Nowhere is this more obvious than the scene in Words of Radiance where he defends Elhokar (from Moash, no less). Kaladin up to this point has actively chosen courses of action that make Elhokar’s death at the hands of his friend more likely. His key realization is a version of the statement earlier on that no price is sufficient for a lost life! He realizes that people are people, and someone murdering the king would be in many ways identical to his brother being killed. He explicitly calls out that what matters is that Elhokar is trying. Elhokar’s choice matters, and if his choice matters, then Kaladin’s matter, too. And he swears the second oath as a result. We are shown through the relations between Kaladian/Syl, and the Radiants and their spren that that is not what matters. What matters is that they try. What matters is their choices. I face this issue a lot when trying to teach students about social justice and systemic oppression. The problems confronted by any imperfect society are monolithic, and the reproduction of those systems is buried deep in the patterns of how we are raised from a very young age. And so it can seem daunting to contemplate changing it. In fact, it is actually impossible that any one person will effect enough change to see the results in their lifetime. It would be easy in that situation to throw one’s hands up and say ‘I can’t change the world, so I might as well not go through the heartache.’ I think that the text is saying that that is no excuse. Just because you can’t change the way the world works by yourself is not an excuse to not choose to try. If enough people make that choice, that is what changes the world. As the text says “What is the most important step a man can take? It’s the next one.” So what is good, or justice, in the Stormlight Archive? Good means choosing to do better. Not best, but better. Anyone is capable of this at any time. Is it justice that they are not killed for their crimes? Not precisely. It is justice that the attempt is made, and it is justice that the wrongs are acknowledged. Dalinar’s story so far has done a better job of showing us that acknowledgement than, say, Szeth’s. Although everyone else acknowledges what Moash has done, critically, he has not. He has not chosen the path that leads to redemption yet. Is it possible? If what truly matters is the person’s choice, as I would argue the text believes, then it is possible that Moash may make the choice at some point to pursue that road. It will be painful. It will be unpleasant. Readers and in-text bystanders alike will have a hard time stomaching it. But, and this is why we love those stories, it reminds us that none of us are so imperfect that we cannot, too, choose redemption.
  5. I'm curious to know Odium is able to sense Moash's thoughts and take away his pain, basically influencing him. I thought shards are only able to hear thoughts and influence their subjects only by hemalurgy, something we saw in the mistborn books. Also, Odium is wounded from the battles with Ambition, Honor, Dominion, and Devotion, and he's confined to Braize, so I'm not sure how he affects and influences his followers so strongly. It seems unlikely that Odium is aware of Hemalurgy, so is it just about being willing to give in to his rule, such as what he tried to do with Dalinar, or singers with voidspren in their gemhearts?
  6. From the album Memes!

    *sets Moash's eyebrows on fire* feel the burnnn
  7. I just finished the book and I loved it but admittedly, I feel a little devastated at what happened to Lift (her legs died when Moash ran his honor blade through them). Am I correct in assuming her legs cannot be healed from something like this? If so, I guess I would like to read theories for how she will bounce back and possibly regain the ability to use her legs. Any thoughts?
  8. A comment on YouTube was the inspiration for this one.
  9. At the end of RoW, Moash appears to be physically blind, and it appears to be permanent. Without getting into the reasons for his blindness, the question remains, what is Moash's character arc from now on? Will he just go out with a whimper and no bang? I really hope not. He's too well developed a villain for him to go out like this. So here is my theory: At the end of the book we see El spike Lezian. This indicates that he is either competent in, or experimenting with Hemalurgy. We know from Khriss's notes that Hemalurgy has vast implications cosmere-wise. All that being said, my theory is that Moash will find his way to El at some point in book 5 and El will spike Moash, Inquisitor style, and this is how he will regain his ability to fight and be a villain with style once again. I imagine that with the spikes, he would be able to see investiture or he will be able to see into the cognitive realm in some way. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this!
  10. I thought about this while thinking about how Sanderson has treated other "inexcusable actions" OB spoilers below: RoW Spoilers: A lot of similarities right? I dismissed the similarities since there aren't any Bondsmith spren I see vibing with Moash but then Sanderson released that Knight Radiant order quiz, and he spoke about how even though they don't become radiant, Bondsmith squires still swore oaths simply for the ideals they represent. I could see Moash working under the current bondsmith in order to repent Bondsmith Ideals really go along with Moash and would be perfect for a redemption arc. Of course I don't like Moash for what he's done, but Dalinar's done just as bad and he's my favourite character in fiction, so the presentation is really the reason I forgive one over the other. The presentation as Moash as a villain makes me think this is unlikely but I just thought this would be a cool way for his story to go
  11. Moash was one of the characters I was most interested in when starting Rhythm of War, and while I wasn't thrilled with how he was written in Rhythm of War, and I wouldn't say that I'm coming around to it, I am starting to think maybe it could work depending on where the character goes in the future. Which makes me wonder, what even is his purpose in the story now? I feel his arc as Kaladin's foil has been completed, Moash gave up on caring because it's too painful while Kaladin accepts that caring is painful but he continues to move forward anyway. Even more than that, he even had a confrontation with Navani, who was able to defeat the man who killed her son. He's lost, he could have easily been killed off at the end and I don't think anyone would have felt unsatisfied but he's still standing regardless. Villains in Stormlight don't really last long, after a couple books, most of them either die or switch sides, even Rayse isn't immune to this, especially if you consider that he only actually appears in Oathbringer and Rhythm of War, yet Moash of all people sticks around. He's been an antagonist in three books and he's approaching a fourth, making him one of the longest lasting villains in the series, behind Taravangian. So far Moash has only really served as a counter to Kaladin and Radiants in general (a big theme of RoW was what makes people good is the fact that he can change, but Moash doesn't) but if that's all he is, why hasn't he been killed off yet? It's possible that Moash could eventually get a redemption, but I kind of doubt it. Throughout Rhythm of War, you constantly have characters remarking about how terrifying, monstrous and evil he is. The same could be said of characters like Szeth or Raboniel, but for those characters there were also moments put in to signal to the readers that these were characters that could be sympathized with, but there's nothing like this for Moash. Even when he gets his pain back for a second, it's made clear that he feels worse for himself than Teft, as if to signal to the reader that we really shouldn't have any sympathy for him. Even if he did get redeemed, what would he do? He can't exactly go to the coalition, the Alethi are notoriously unforgiving of regicide. At one point I thought he'd join the listeners, but I think he missed the boat on that one. Honestly I'm half expecting it to turn out that he just froze to death on the mountain after the end of Rhythm of War.
  12. So, seems like Moash is now blind: "But he couldn't see them. No matter how much Stormlight he was given, his eyes didn't recover. He was blind" Why do you think this happened?
  13. So, what are everyone’s views about Moash, especially considering recent actions seen in the preview chapters? I understand there is a lot of grey area; perhaps you think that Moash is a good, but misguided, person. Or perhaps you think he is corrupted by the Unmade. Or maybe you can’t decide. As for the second question, the options once again have a fair bit of ambiguity. If Moash doesn’t get redeemed, he might just die without much of a conflict. Or perhaps Moash will live/die unredeemed, having destroyed Bridge Four and wreaked havoc everywhere. I am interested to see what everyone thinks about these questions.
  14. Vyre used the knife to kill Jezrien and Jezrien flipped out. But he wasn't even a human he was more like a spren. So was the material of the blade Odiumite? I mean Harmony, Trell, Ati, and Leras all had God metals. Why not Odium? And if so is Honors metal the metal that shardblades and the oathgate are made out of. And do we know anything about Cultivation's metal? These are questions that have been running through my mind lately.
  15. Somewhere after finishing WoR, I remember going online and seeing a thread on Reddit about creating a new thread called r/stormmoash. I was vaguely amused, I most certainly did not expect it to become what it has become today. Stormlight has had some less than True Hero™ characters. This complexity has always been part of what made me love the series. Some characters, like Shallan and Adolin as well as Elhokar are quite notably polarizing. I would count Dalinar in that group too post-Oathbringer. Some are more reviled: Sadeas, Amaram and Moash. To my surprise, opinion on Kaladin too seems to be quite divisive, mostly due to the existence of the previous characters. He is pointed out as being more traditionally heroic, in contrast to the other characters, on top of being depressing. He seems typically moral than the more complicated history of Dalinar and less fun to read or interact with than Adolin and Shallan. Some people have also taken issue with Kaladin's view of Lighteyes. Dalinar: I feel already tired of explaining my views on him. There are two new threads where I have put forward my views on him "moral miscalculations of Mr Sanderson in Oathbringer" by Parallax and "Dalinar's Genocide" by Hakusho Slick. Shallan and Adolin mostly come under heat because of their casual racism. Many seem to be thoroughly incensed by Adolin referring to Kaladin as "bridgeboy" as well as his comments on "the world changing" when "even darkeyes have access to Shardblade", the fact that he makes that comment about women having Shardblades also tends to draw frowns (although it is notable that he makes that comment in a positive manner, offering to teach Shallan how to properly wield a Shardblade) One of the most quoted things for hating against Shallan is the same scene with Adolin, where he makes the comment mentioned above about Shallan's worry about seeming feminine while lugging about a Shardblade. She responds by thinking "thank you for comparing all women to peasants".... Oof. There is the infamous boots scene with Tyn where she bullies Kaladin into giving her his boots. Before that, once again with Tyn, they both try on something (I forget, eye drops? lens? I think it was the former) to darken their eye colour so they could move about freely. Shallan is very excited to shed lighteyes propriety. Then she suddenly gets really worried that there might exist something to make darkeyes seem lighteyes. The point I'm trying to make by going on a spiel about these characters' various controversies is that these things are discussed. Negative opinions and accompanying evidence are examined, others' point of view seen as valid, arguments and counter-arguments are made, and so on. I'm not saying Moash isn't discussed. I've seen the threads and topics. For example, the Vyre discussions. I'm pointing that a disproportionately large amount of disliking Moash seems to have become popular simply due to trending. Oh yes, what he did was not okay but we have characters like Sadeas, Amaram and Roshone right there beside him. Moash killed Elhokar at a pivotal moment. Elhokar did genuinely try to change and was close to swearing his Ideals. Moash succeeded where the others (except Roshone, RIP Tien) didn't, as Sadeas failed in his Battle of the Tower plot and Amaram failed to dispose of Kaladin. But there are no threads or discussions simply dedicated to only hating on any of these other characters. I mean discussions like Shallan Davar disgust thread do exist but the Moash thing has gone out of control. Moash has the aforementioned very famous hashtag on reddit, where people simply drop in to say that they hate him with almost the same frequency that they say "I am Stick". There are discussions dedicated to simply hating on Moash. As well as various other such threads on who would kill Moash, etc. People casually drop "I hate Moash" or variations thereof, which get upvoted a lot. These comments often seem to be there for the sole purpose of getting upvotes. There has a become a cycle of *positivity* around the activity of dissing on this character. Here's the meat of the matter though, the name Moash actually doesn't seem to generate as much hatred as Sadeas or Amaram. It creates amusement. He isn't hated nearly as much as he is associated with lighthearted online banter. People make a "dynamic entry" with a post about how they hate Moash, generally get positive feedback and that's it. This is especially popular on forum games. (I have to admit to having dropped Moash's name in a similar manner but I did it to gauge receptiveness to disagreements against popular opinion during one of my first posts on this site. I had just come from reddit, I wanted to see how people would react. With burns or actual arguments. Thanks to AonEne for providing the latter.) People seem to find hating Moash funny. I'm genuinely curious (read: very worried) if someone will come and comment "I hate Moash, lol" or "this guy is #Moashdidnothingwrong" or just go "storm Moash" If you feel strongly about it, try to keep your comments restricted to Moash's actions against Elhokar and Kaladin. Edit 1: I forgot about the Shard's policy on cursewords. I think the real name of the reddit thread is obvious though Edit 2: minor grammatical corrections Edit 3: thank you for the upvotes, guys! Edit 4: I explain my rationale for creating this topic here: Edit 5: @AonEne's response to the same
  16. Kaldin mentioned that Moash has an Honorblade. Teft is not surprised. How can this be? They must know that Jezrien is dead. Have they kept it from the common troops? Does this mean that Jasnah's plan of killing Heralds is right out now? What does this tell us about the long time plans of the coalition? The Heralds cannot help them, the Everstorm is still blowing and Herdaz has fallen? Despair should be setting in.
  17. The first thing I would like the point out is that, this is something that came to my mind this morning when I was unable to sleep due to the heat in the UK at the moment, it could be very flawed and I could have had many things really muddled up. But, with everyones input and thoughts, I am sure more sense could be made out of this. Outside of the books, I must admit I am unsure with how much has been revealed from Sanderson himself, most of this could be unproven or thrown under the rug, but I think it's intersting. So, I have a theory about the Unmade, The Heralds and Honorblades. Basically, the history of the Unmade is very cloudy and in modern Roshar, their history is largely unknown. Some sources claimed there was 10 but it is generally assumed that there are 9. This I think is very interesting and quite important. There are 10 heralds, and only 9 Unmade (but there could be 10, see what I am getting at?). Ever since the Oathpact was abandoned, only 1 herald went to Braize, being Taln. This means there are 9 Heralds left on Roshar, incidentally there are 9 Unmade. I think there is a link there… I do believe that there are 10 Unmade, and even though sources indicate that they have existed on Roshar since before the Desolations, I debate how true this is (backed up by the clouded history). I think, in previous Desolations when the Heralds were trapped on Braize, they were being tormented and fighting against a specific Unmade (one per Herald, and its Voidspren). After the Oathpact was broken, and only Taln went to Braize, his Unmade went with him. Thus, 9 Unmade were on Roshar with the 9 Heralds, and 1 on Braize with Taln. [Off topic I thought of in my edit, but, the Unmade could be Odiums ‘Heralds’. We have seen the Fused use surges, maybe there are different types of Voidspren, similar to the different Spren needed for each order of Radiants: Honorspren, Cryptics, etc.] For whatever reason, the Voidspren remain trapped on Braize as long as one Herald and Unmade are present. (This I can’t seem to find a logical reason for, but I think it is important, something about a Herald being on Braize keeps them trapped, even if it is one Herald.) After Taln had given in, and returned to Roshar, everything on Braize was freed. Thus, the coming of the True Desolation. This also means I think a 10th Unmade has come to Roshar, one that has been ignored. (this backing up some sources from history that claim there were 10). This was the first thing I have been thinking on. Secondly, Moash and Honorblades. Moash killed Jezrien in a way that is unlike that in history, when a Herald got killed in history, they seemed to return to Braize, however, Moash killed Jezrian with a knife that contained a gemstone. I think Odium has been cunning in his planning. 4500 years had passed since the last Desolation, the longest time in history; this is A LOT of planning time. We don’t know much about the creation of Honorblades, and we know Shardblades are Spren that mimicked Radiant surges, but Honorblades are said to be a type of Splinter of Honor. I think however, Odium has found ways to create an Honorblade out of the Herald itself. This would be interesting, if the gemstone in the dagger Moash used has bound the herald, (also confirming this death being ‘different’), then perhaps that gemstone can be used to create a new Honorblade. And this could have interesting implications, imagine if his new Honorblade/Heraldblade?, allowed the wielder to become to new head of that order of Radiant. Imagine if, it actually allowed them to manipulate and ‘control’ the knights under that order; it would really mess up Dalinar’s plans. I feel like Moash will also be the first person to wield this. I find it too strange the Jezrien (being the order of windrunners, thus Kaladin, Moash’s ‘friend’) is the first Herald to be killed in this way. If a new kind of power is created from Jezrien, and Moash wields it, then, he could take control of the Windrunners, and if he is able to somehow influence them, he could turn them against Dalinar. And Moash being Moash, will probably try to convince Kaladin that this is the ‘right’ thing to do. Ironically, this could be what leads to Kaladin debating breaking his oaths, as what Syl and the Stormfather have been promising would happen, but this time, in a way that is ‘different’ to The Day of Recreance. Since this is the True Desolation, it would make more sense that things would turn out differently to how they have in the past, ESPECIALLY with this additional time Odium has had to plan.
  18. I’m wondering what’s going to happen with Vyre. It seems like there is destined to be a confrontation between he and Kaladin, probably many. Are they turning him into a new supervillain like Amaram? The way Khen and the other parshmen “wanted to be near him” reminded me of the bridgemen’s devotion to Kaladin. Is he taking over from Jezrien in some way, being that he killed him (or trapped him...?) and he has Jez’s Honorblade. Anyway I’m rambling a bit. What do you think Vyre’s role or purpose will be?
  19. Would it be possible for someone to use an Honorblade to an extent that they began to enter savanthood. Soulcasters can become savants but could an Honorblade.
  20. My question really all comes down to what would happen if a being like Kelsier, circa era 2, was stabbed by Vyre's knife? Would the same thing happen that happened to Jezrien? I think the heralds are preserved by Honor's investiture and they seem to have the perk of automatic incarnation after death, and Kelsier, preserved by Preservation had to get himself a body somehow to return to the Physical Realm, but like, would that knife kill him for good, or would it have no effect since he, you know, doesn't reincarnate anyway, but is just preserved as a cognitive shadow? I couldn't find any WOB directly relating to this.
  21. Dalinar and co. have been discussing the Heralds as a possible resource in fighting the Voidbringers. I think this idea is hella cool, and it would totally add sauce to the story, but... Taln is mad. Ash is kinda mad, or at least horribly depressed and wants nothing to do with humanity. Nale is bordering sociopathic. Ishar is...somewhere in Emul, I think? Trying to conquer it in some crazy war, which seems the mark of a madman to me, despite what Ashyn says to the contrary. Moash killed Jezrien, and it seems like he intends to do more. I don't know where the other Heralds are, but the Desolation is back and they're choosing to remain hidden, so...
  22. I've been thinking that Moash and Kaladin are maybe a bit like opposites; they were in a similar situation -- being in the bridge crews after tragedy befalling them or their families -- and Moash clings to revenge and he has that singular focus, while Kaladin turns away from revenge and arrives at the realization "I will protect even those I hate." (Speaking of which; isn't that such a totally mind-blowing statement?? I don't know if I could do that.) It seemed to me like they arrived at a similar crossroads and took opposite paths. Turning aside from selfish concerns to selfless ones. Thoughts?
  23. Ok, so my theory is that Vyre will become a Radiant of the Order of Skybreakers. In terms of Evidence to back this up, we have the fact that Vyre is very focused on Vengeance, and for bringing Justice to Elhokar for past crimes. We Have the fact that when Kaladin was going to kill Amaram, Syl told him that he wasn’t a Skybreaker so he shouldn’t, however Vyre DID decide to kill Elhokar. We have the fact that both Vyre and Nale came to the decision that the parshmen are the rightful rulers of Roshar, so Nale is set up perfectly to mentor Vyre. Also, we have information in the Epigraphs that the Skybreakers and the Windrunners are always at odds, so adding this extra layer to the Kaladin/Vyre confrontation will be quite interesting. Finally, Vyre is being set up as the new Assasin in White, so if he also became a Skybreaker it would make sense. So what do you guys think? Is Vyre some other Order of Radiant?
  24. I have been rereading Oathbringer and I am starting to notice a few connections between the various Moash parts that may relate to Odium's plans. First, the Fused are slowly going crazy because they have been reborn so many times. Also, it seems that the Fused do not have as fine of control over their surges as the corresponding Radiant orders. The Fused are also becoming a liability because they are being reborn at what seems like a greater rate than previous Desolations. Which means that Odium needs a replacement. Which leads us to Moash. First, the Fused are collecting Shardblades and Shardplate. Secondly, Moash kills Jezrien with a dagger that has a gem in the pommel and the wounds bleeds black smoke(similar to nightblood), we also know that the blade is functionally similar to hemalurgy. The gem in the pommel also lights up after Jezrien dies. So the blade is stealing something and storing it in the gem. Also, Odium only has nine orders of Fused and seems to be missing one for the Surge of Adhesion, which is a primarily Honor based Surge. Given that the Heralds have a direct connection to Honor through themselves which is channeled through the Honorblades, I think Odium might be trying to gain the ability for his forces to use Adhesion. Not in the Windrunner sort of way, but more like a Bondsmith. If he uses the dagger to give Moash the direct connection to Honor so that he can use the Honorblade with levels of power magnitudes larger than a Knights Radiant. Moash would then be able to act as basically a dark Bondsmith and unite Odium's forces. Which leads us to my next point: Odium wants and needs to replace the Fused. I think he wants to do this by making Voidbinding Radiants. I think the direct connection to Honor might be able to heal the shardblades long enough for Odium to corrupt the spren and then bond them to Singers or Humans. Which would give the Void Radiants less checks on their power than a Knights Radiant and more Surges and more control of said Surges than a Fused. Sure, Odium's power might burn through them quicker, but he can always get more people to bond. They could also be used to discredit Dalinar's Radiants through false flag attacks on allies. And with Moash's connection to Honor's investure, the Void Radiants could be powered without having to rely on stored investure. It would also fit with the whole Odium is the new Vorin god theory that has been floating around.
  25. I believe Odium’s forces – led by Moash – will kidnap Shallan. I think Odium needs either a Lightweaver or a Cryptic for some reason – perhaps to “re-make” Re-Shephir, whose captivity seems to have diminished her. Kaladin and Adolin lead Shallan’s rescue attempt. Kaladin secures Shallan, and Adolin fights furiously to allow Kaladin and Shallan to escape. He demands Kaladin leave him and take Shallan to safety. With no other choice, Kaladin finally speaks the Fourth Oath – (IMO) “I will protect the one I can save.” That’s the summary; here are the details. There’s a bit of evidence here and there, but, needless to say, this post is mostly invention, a tale. Foreshadowing Kaladin’s faced this situation before, when the Fused wound Adolin in Shadesmar. “Leave me,” Adolin said, coughing.” (OB, Chapter 117, Kindle p. 1116.) But Kaladin couldn’t leave him and “couldn’t say those Words. He wasn’t strong enough.” (OB, Chapter 118, Kindle p. 1132.) I believe Kaladin will have a second chance. He will say the Fourth Oath this time. I do not predict Adolin will die (though that’s possible). Maybe he’ll be an Edgedancer by then and escape himself. But Kaladin IMO will leave Adolin to protect Shallan, the one he can save. Odium’s Need for Cryptic The best evidence Odium needs a Cryptic is the OB Epilogue, where Hoid bonds one. Hoid notices the Fused breaking down the palace, as if searching for something. The Fused are not keen on Radiant spren of any type. But to me this shows surprising dedication to find Elhokar's Cryptic. The Fuseds’ motivation is unclear, but I link it to Shallan’s encounter with Re-Shephir. Shallan and Re-Shephir Re-Shephir’s captivity traumatized it. When it meets Shallan, Re-Shephir wants to replace Pattern and bond Shallan: Re-Shephir now knows Shallan as well as Shallan knows it, the perfect environment for bonding. Shallan says Re-Shephir is like a “wrong” creationspren. I suspect Cryptics are like the “right” creationspren. IOW, creationspren form the base of both Re-Shephir and Cryptics, which is why Shallan attracts them. I speculate Re-Shephir needs to be “Re-Made” - it’s become too fearful. I envision two possibilities – start from scratch with a new Cryptic or bond Re-Shephir to a Lightweaver to stabilize it. Either way, Pattern and Shallan will be natural Odium targets. Moash Why Moash? Odium clearly has plans for him. His star rises among the Fused when he kills Jezrien and accepts the Honorblade and the name Vyre. (Will he form a relationship with Lady Leshwi?) The human Moash can scout and enter places Singers can’t readily go. Five Singers Moash helped and fought with “want to be near” him – Khen, Pal, Nam, and two others. (OB, Chapter 122, Kindle p. 1222.) I see them forming the rudiments of a Singer Bridge Four. They are a natural strike force to steal Shallan. If Moash (or Odium) noticed Kaladin’s agony at seeing his friends kill one another, this group will be hard for Kaladin to deal with. Adolin must take the larger role in the fight because Kaladin may not be able to kill his friends. I don’t think this will be the last Kaladin-Moash confrontation. I believe Moash retains his loyalty and friendship to Kaladin on simmer regardless of what he thinks of other humans and their society. In the end, I think this one Connection will be enough to cause Moash to waver. Only Brandon knows if Moash dies or changes sides again. Conclusion All of this is raw but, IMO, reasonable speculation. Something to ponder as a possibility, nothing more.