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Found 10 results

  1. In Shadows of Self, Wax asks Bleeder who she is. Bleeder says that she is the surgeon. We know that Era 2 happens after SA 1-5. Is it possible that either Kaladin or Lirin are in someway connected to Bleeder? Maybe they were killed and became a spike for her? I don’t have any evidence, I just want to hear people’s thoughts and see where this goes.
  2. I've been thinking about this for a little while and decided to give my list of the worst Stormlight fathers in order from worst worst to least worst. Obviously Shallan's dad was a literal domestic abuser, but Dalinar, Gavilar, and Lirin have all been hot messes at various times too. My ranking: Gavilar Kholin: Emotionally manipulative, possibly sociopathic, appears to have been a power-mad religious zealot. Even Dalinar in the throes of uncontrolled PTSD and alcoholism was a better parent and leader. Gavilar left his son, a basically decent and intelligent human being who was willing to do unnecessary and socially controversial things for the sake of the lower caste as a group, broken into a thin-skinned paranoid wreck with a massive chip on his shoulder and the self-esteem of a bruised pear; and as for Jasnah, we don't know much but it seems pretty obvious that Gavilar tried to force her to tolerate Meridas Amaram (who I'm about 85% sure hurt Jasnah somehow) and was likely responsible for subjecting her to the locked-room method of "therapy" that seems prevalent in Alethkar. Left every single person in his immediate family with some degree of emotional issues or trauma. Helped precipitate the apocalypse. Lin Davar: Literal domestic abuser. Physically abusive and, with his wife, left his daughter with DID and enough trauma to rival even Kaladin. Dalinar Kholin: I keep having trouble deciding whether to put him or Lirin higher on this list, they're both crap fathers but at least Lirin recognized his mentally-ill son's accomplishments after some browbeating by his wife. Dalinar is an alternately distant and repressive father to Adolin, who he consistently treats in a patronizing and judgemental fashion, not recognizing that Adolin is an adult (who had to grow up too fast thanks to Dalinar's alcoholism and PTSD), making adult decisions, with a far better sense for other people than Dalinar can ever hope to have. Even when making an effort he is dismissive of Adolin's passions and refuses to understand Adolin's most deeply personal choices, as well as being a massive hypocrite about Adolin stabbing Sadeas in the eye when Sadeas clearly and openly stated his desire and intent to worsen the apocalypse just to storm over Dalinar for petty spite. While he is kind to Renarin, he is overprotective and stifling to him when he isn't distant, requiring Renarin to blurt out self-destructively depressed thoughts to realize that he's stifling his younger son. (and even then, he gets Renarin the Plate first, while Adolin is the one to give Renarin the Blade) Only reason Dalinar isn't higher is because he has buckets of trauma and didn't physically or intentionally emotionally abuse his kids. Lirin: A bullheaded, strict moral absolutist who contributed significantly to his son's mental health crisis and realized how badly he'd stormed up too late. It took Dalinar of all people to break Kaladin out of his depressed spiral before Kaladin could do something stupid like kill himself. Simultaneously bullheaded and weak, Lirin is not fully capable of addressing how his own trauma affects his attitudes and thoughts, and his hyper-rigid moral code leaves no room for "but these guys are literally spirits who have sworn allegiance to a god of hate who have murdered people to occupy their bodies". What do you think? How would you rank the Stormlight protagonists' dads?
  3. Hello! I'm a lurker who joined to talk about rhythm of war--so let's talk! Based on the chapters from RoW so far, Lirin will be showing up more, and I sense that it will be handy to get to know him. What do y'all think about Lirin's stance on pacifism, authority, and parenting? What made him the way that he is? Is he disappointed that Kaladin's a Knight Radiant, or only that he is a soldier? The way he pushed Kal to be a surgeon--and his imagined future from RoW chapter 1, with Kaladin AND Tien as surgeons by his side--is a little odd to me. Does he think that the only acceptable profession for his sons was to follow in his footsteps? I'm wondering if by forcing/expecting Kaladin to live by his "code of surgeons" he overstepped his role as a father? (This mirrors one of Dalinar and Adolin's conflicts in WoK, now that I think about it XD) Honestly, his disappointment in Kaladin's fighting is not doing Kaladin's mental health any favors. But also, I think that part of Kaladin's current and future depression comes from his unresolved conflict in Kholinar--there are good people on both sides, and he has to kill them--so maybe Lirin's not as culpable as I'm implying. Basically, Lirin is a very complex and interesting dude that I'm very excited to read about. Anyone agree? Or do you think his new spotlight will end in death? ',:-)
  4. So while this could be nothing, I was looking through some discussions about stormlight 4 and I started to connect some dots. While it is not confirmed, a lot of the fandom- and myself- believe Hesina, Kaladin's mother, to be originally from Kharbranth. If this is true, we known from the end of Oathbringer that all those who were born in Kharbranth and their spouses will be spared from Odium. We also know that Odium is bound by his word and so he must follow this deal he struck with Taravangian. While I've seen quite a few people saying this deal will end up being bad for Taravangian and that Odium ultimately got the better deal, I think this deal is what will bring about Odium's downfall, not Taravangian's. Now I should say this having any sort of possibility weighs heavily on Hesina being born in Kharbranth, but under the assumption that she is then this means that Lirin is spared by association. And yet, even with this deal potentially protecting him, much of the fanbase believes Lirin will die in Stormlight 4. This is where I think Odium trips himself up. If Lirin were to die as a result of Odium- so be singers, listeners, or corrupted spren- the deal between Odium and Taravangian will immediately become void. And while we don't necessarily know what happens when a shard's word is broken, it is my personal headcanon that a big part of the process for Honor being shattered was that he in some way broke his word. While obviously this has a lot holes in it, I just wanted to point it out as I've been seeing a lot of people talking about the Kharbranth deal and whether or not Lirin will die in the next book.
  5. We know that Lirin's PoV is the first chapter right now, but will he get more? I think that his PoV is just for the beginning, like Cenn was, but I could see him being in group 1 as well.
  6. So I was In another group and someone posted chapter 1 of stormlight 4 . The said they got the rough draft at a book signing . Can I post this and would anyone like to see it , I was shaking when I saw it wasn’t just another copy of Navani preface that we saw . It opens up with Lirin. I don’t want to violate any rules so please let me know if it’s ok !
  7. So for a while now I’ve been thinking about this subject, and the other day I had made a post in the Stormlight Facebook group addressing it, and it ended up being a pretty big hit there, with reactions ranging from people loving it, to thinking it’s interesting but likely misguided. So I wanted to lay this out here as well and get some more feedback on it. So ever since I listened to Stormlight Archive the second time, with the benefit of hindsight from my first listen-through, I began to wonder whether there might be potentially more to Lirin (Kaladin’s father) than meets the eye. But at first I couldn’t quite place what it was about him that seemed off about him to me, but recently, it hit me. I realized that literally every single one of Kaladin’s ideals thus far, including what his fourth one is most likely to be, namely accepting that you can’t save everyone and to not allow your failures to prevent you from doing what you can, are things that Lirin has explicitly tried to instil in Kaladin and also operates by himself. In short, Lirin almost seems to me to be a Windrunner without a Spren. The first ideal is really too broad to find anything specific, but the second and third are very explicit in that he dedicates his life to helping people whose lives are in danger, he very explicitly was put into a situation in which Roshone, a man he had every reason to despise and allow to die, had his life entirely in Lirin’s hands, and Lirin chose to do what he knew was the right thing and save his life, which is the third ideal of the Windrunners. And he also has told Kaladin on more than one occasion that he no matter how hard he tries, he can’t save everyone, and that he needs to come to terms with that inevitability, which is most likely at the very least related to the fourth Windrunner ideal. So again I say, Lirin seems to be very Windrunner-y in his philosophy, with the only real difference being the way in which he chooses to protect people, namely as a surgeon rather than a soldier. Now I don’t believe for a second that Brandon wrote his character this way accidentally; the parallels are just to explicit for that. But the question is: what does it mean? And could it possibly be hinting at something? Now, before I go any further, I just want to freely admit that I have very little confidence that this theory is correct, as there are many other explanations for this that are much simpler, but I still think it’s at least worth laying out. So, here’s my admittedly unlikely theory: what if Lirin is a former Windrunner? Specifically a Windrunner from the time of the Recreance? Now, like I said, I realize how unlikely this probably is, but I don’t think it’s completely out of the question. After the Recreance, I think it’s entirely possible that some of the disgraced Radiants may have chosen to go into exile and leave Roshar, maybe becoming worldhoppers. And we know that worldhoppers often gain a greatly extended lifespan by as yet unknown means. And the one piece of evidence I have for this is how thickly Lirin lays on the whole ‘violence is always bad; nothing good can ever come of it!’ spiel. The way he speaks of that, and his conviction, seems to me to bespeak some deep familiarity with war and conflict. And the Radiants at the time of the Recreance pretty much got the ultimate example of this by their unwitting lobotomization and subsequent enslavement of the Singer species. With the Windrunners probably being even more deeply disturbed than many other orders by virtue of how much their order was all about protecting people and doing the right thing; I happen to be in the camp of fans who suspect that the horror of realizing what they had done to the Singers probably caused many of them to consider their oaths broken. And if Lirin was one of them, I can easily imagine his guilt driving him to be a hard pacifist, which he clearly is, and changing his method of protecting people from the role of a soldier to the role of a healer. And the other somewhat intriguing thing is that Lirin had a very interesting reaction to seeing Kaladin use his Windrunner powers, namely to look horrified and dismayed, maybe because he knew first hand what those powers could potentially cause and was horrified that his son now possessed them? Again, clearly there are many other possible explanations for this, and I freely admit that even I think that most of them are probably much more likely than this one. But I will say one thing with conviction, and that is that regardless of whether he’s a former Windrunner or not, I do think that Brandon must have written his character like this for some reason. One doesn’t just overtly display pretty much the entire Windrunner philosophy (in stark contrast with 99.9% of the rest of Roshar) for no literary purpose. Like I said, the only question is what that literary purpose is in this case? Could Brandon be hinting at something more important here? What does everyone think?
  8. These are the comments I put on the Oathbringer sample chapters page on Tor's website: I wouldn’t be too surprised if Lirin had been training her since birth. Maybe he was desperate to produce a surgeon after both his sons left and so he gave his infant daughter a scalpel and started teaching. So now we have Mara, the (at most) four and a half year old sergeon. But he kept her training secret the first few years and got her to pretend to be bad. He accidentally slipped and said that she had been trained for “a few years” when he should have said “a couple of years”. and: Something else that supports my theory is that when Mara was born Lirin knew that he would have to train his daughter to be an expert surgeon before she had to start covering her safe hand (since as someone before mentioned, silk/cloth gloved hands are not great for surgery). What do you guys think? Edit: I guess not, oh well.
  9. Detail Process Young Kaladin is based on my "Kid Kal" character design:
  10. Have Lirin and Hesina even tried to contact Kaladin after he joined the military? In his own PoV, I think it's implied that neither have for some time, perhaps never in his entire military career, but in his earliest flashbacks, it is obvious that they both loved him very much. In fact, before Kaladin and Tien were recruited, his mother basically told him that he didn't have to follow his father's path and choose another career if that's what made him happy. Sure, Kaladin may have disobeyed his father's wishes and disrupted his plans, but he is still as much their son as Tien is. No parent ever wants to see their kids die before them, not when your last conversation ended with bitter and angry words. So whatever the reason for their silence, Tien's death should be more than the incentive they needed to contact him, even if it's just to mourn his death together through letters. Unless they got real busy and popped out another one in the past five or six years, he is their last son. Plenty of men have joined the army and survived. He's also done very well for himself before the Amaram incident, youngest squadleader and all. There's no reason for them to completely ignore him as they did... ...Unless Tien's and Kaladin's recruitment into the military was not Roshone's final stroke. As weak as Roshone is, he is still a brightlord, a cousin to a Shardbearer. What little power he has, he can still use to inflict a lot of damage if he wanted to do so. And the loss of his only son could be the last push he needed to dish out the hurt. Kaladin have suffered so much, and it chills my bones just to think of it, but could something have happened to his parents that prevented them from something as simple as responding to their son's letters? And if so, what does this mean for Kaladin as a character? A part of me thinks that they're both alive and well, that Amaram decided to take it upon himself to protect/provide for them after the way he stabbed their son in the back, but this whole situation at Hearthstone stinks if you ask me.