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Found 8 results

  1. I have been wanting to have this discussion for sometime. It’s a sensitive subject , but I think it’s a worthy discussion. What do u think Brandon is trying to convey ? I see two possibilities ? A legacy option and a philosophical option . legacy option : light eyes are the descendants of the KR . Since the KR were the leaders during the desolation this makes sense . U must keep in mind there are eye colors we don’t have IRL : light yellow, light orange , light green. Horn eaters have no lighteyes so we can infer they had no KR . I have heard rumors that Horneaters have listener blood . If this is true then that’s probably why they have no KR. And maybe explains why they can eat shells with their teeth and see Spren. Anyways this doesn’t stop them for trying to get a shardblade . Which I will go into my next point . Philosophical option: Roshar is a fantasy world . The races in Roshar don’t match up. With the Races we have IRL. So every culture seems to have ignorant predjudices . IRL we have racial predjudice , and religious predjudice . Even caste systems like in Japan. So I think Brandon wanted to create a unique predjudice , one that he could use in his narrative to oppress people, and not offend anyone . I think racism is pure ignorance. I think Brandon wanted us to look at it and go well that’s a stupid reason to think u are better than somebody . The Horneaters come down and fight trying to get. A shardblade . I think it’s because they want to have a path to becoming a light eyes , even if they won’t admit their true motives. so what do u guys think about light eyes and Darkeyes ? What viewpoint do you have ? What was Brandon trying to convey. To us ?
  2. Thinking about which of our lighteyed characters might become squires, I had a few fun possibilities. 1. Adolin to Renarin. I had thought about Adolin to Dalinar, but I don't really see Bondsmiths taking squires at all, and Adolin already loves and in many ways looks up to his brother. It would also be an interesting take, where the capable, handsome, warrior heir becomes subordinate to his physically weaker brother. 2. Navani to... Just kidding, I can't see Navani's pride allowing her to become a squire. But if it were ever to happen, totally to Jasnah. 3. From completely out of left field: Sebarial to Shallan. I see Sebarial as an indulgent, purposefully lazy master deceiver. He secretly runs the smoothest economy in the war camps, and makes everyone see him as a wasteful buffoon. He already has the connection to Shallan, and I believe his respect for her will only grow. There is the small problem that Shallan may already have other proto-squires with Gaz and co. 4. Amaram to Taln. Problem: Can heralds take squires? I don't know, but I don't see why not. Amaran has very strong feelings of devotion and almost worship for Taln, which don't always mean squireship, but could make a decent start. 5. Elhokar won't become a squire I don't think. In his mind, he can't afford to be seen as subordinate to anyone (even though everyone thinks of him that way already). However, if he were to be a squire, it would be to Dalinar, which again, I dont think Dalinar can take squires. 6. Random street urchins to Lift. This isn't necessarily on topic (lighteyes), but it would be awesome to see a bunch of glowing urchins slipping through the streets stealing food. We already have one! I want more! Haha
  3. Eyes are one of my favorite things to draw, and since eye color is such a big part of Roshar, I decided to try my hand at it. Because Kaladin is a lighteyed darkeyes, he was the natural choice. I originally wanted to do two sets of eyes, but this seemed like more fun.
  4. So we learn that the Heirocracy was an out of control, corrupt preisthood opressing the people and the Sun Maker cast down the arrogant Heirocracy and freed the people of Vorin Roshar from the twisted Dogma of the Vorin Church. Here is the entire entry in the Coppermind for the War of Loss; Who was the Vorin Church before the War of Loss? Who won the war? Who told this version of the story? Cui bono? I think the post Recreance Vorin church emerged from the servants, priests, and remnants of the Radiants. I think they stepped into the leadership gap left by the Recreance of the Radiants. Who steps in when the most powerful class in a society, a class that functions as the priests, leaders, generals, scholars, artists, champoins, judges, and heroes of the society, a class that is bound by supernatural oaths to act honorably stops functioning. Someone needs to step in. And the most logical choice initially would be the people closest to the Radiants. I also think that once those people gained power they would try to keep it and therefore try to associate themselves with the Radiants of old while distance themselves from the Recreant Radiants, they would try to hide information. When the Roman empire collapsed in the west the highest power left was the Roman Catholic Church and the church became the power in western Europe. Just like the Nobility of Europe chaffed under the Roman church, I think the nobility of Eastern Roshar didn't like being underneath the Vorin Church. Side note: I don't think being Lighteyed means anything except that the Radiants had Light Eyes and were maybe called Light Eyes and I think the Nobility became those who had lighter eyes through a misunderstanding and because they associated themselves with the Radiants and shardbearers all having lighter eyes, but not Light eyes like the Radiants. I think that the War of Loss was a Civil war between the first estate, the clergy of the Vorin Church who were in charge, and the second estate, the Nobility. I think the Sunmaker was an Alethi Prince who subjugated, allied with, and persauded the other Alethi Nobility to help him overthrow the Priests to elevate the Nobility over the priests. I don't think it was a high minded war for freedom of thought, I think it was a petty war to see who got to be in charge. And in a move that imitated the enslavement of the Listeners after the last Desolation, the Nobility enslaved the priests and used them to tell their version of history where the church was lying and hiding things from the people (although this may be partially true). It was just a power struggle between the Nobility and the Priesthood. Not that the Priesthood would have been any better than the lighteyes. Kaladin, Sigzil, and Moash's discussions on what would happen if the darkeyes overthrew the lighteyes, the Babatharnum and their eldest rule society illustrate this. I just want to point out that the war probably wasn't what the lighteyes say it was and that we should look at who is telling history and why they would tell it how they tell it.
  5. So, I know there has been a lot of debate about how "light" someone's eyes need to be in order to actually be considered a lighteyes, but I haven't seen anyone bring up heterochromia? Eyes with more than one color? I know there's the Veden king's bastard son, but to my understanding, that was a genetic thing, whereas heterochromia, to my knowledge, involves a mild injury during birth that results in either whole or part of the eye's pigment changing (not really sure how it works, that's just what research has told me). Are there any ideas about where this would put someone in the Alethi system?
  6. Does anyone know what eye color Brandon has?
  7. Is it just me or do Lighteyes have no idea what a real apology actually involves? I was thinking of Dalinar and Shallan when I came up with this but Elhokar and Amaram both provided an interesting counterpoint to them as I thought more on it. So I guess you can call this a thread about the philosophy of apologies instead of just Lighteyes as the title suggests but it does contain WOR spoilers so here it should live. (PS there are a few Wheel of Time spoilers at the end too.) It started when I connected Shallan and Dalinar’s apologies to Kaladin together. First off Shallan claims to have apologised to Kaladin, when by my reading she didn’t really, then later Dalinar states “I believe an apology is due” but does not really deliver one himself. At first I thought he was referring to the apology that he himself owed to Kaladin but he apparently just meant that Amaram should deliver a simple ‘Sorry I murdered your men, mutilated your face and made you a slave’ (which admittedly he then did.) Shallan’s apology was pretty lacking by my standards. Kaladin (rightfully) called her out on the way she stole his boots then sighed and told her he was not holding a grudge over it and that she was not as bad as others. - “Not as bad as the others? What a delightful compliment. Well, let’s say you’re right. Perhaps I am an insensitive rich woman. That doesn’t change the fact that you can be downright mean and offensive, Kaladin Stormblessed” It was her next line that confused me - “I apologize, and all I get in return is a shrug?” I had to reread it looking for the apology, maybe it’s just me but as apologies go that was… not one. (his was closer) Dalinar was better in that his actions spoke of apology but he really should have said the words (Words are important on Roshar). He needed to acknowledge out loud that he more or less dismissed what he did not want to hear and that he was wrong to do so. Doing things correctly eventually is not an apology, admitting fault to yourself and those wronged is. Initially I was simply amused that he said an apology was due then failed to actually deliver one. Combined with Shallan’s failure I thought of this thread but we can look a bit further into it by using Amaram and Elhokar. Amaram. Now he did apologise, in the strictest sense of the word, the only problem was the sincerity of it. He was caught out in one direct lie and had to admit the truth, he apologised with all formality and admitted that he was sorry for what he did. The only problem being that his sorrow was in no way proportional to his sin, he may actually regret that innocent men were killed but he admits that this was not as important to him as gaining Shards ‘for the greater good’ and that he would do it again in a heartbeat. It is the forced apology that a child gives when caught out and made to apologise, an insincere formality. In his later viewpoint he makes it clear that his only real regret was not killing Kaladin too. (I think that once Amaram had confessed what he had done before witnesses Dalinar should have demanded he immediately surrender his Plate and Blade. What else could Amaram have done? It would have gone a long way towards Dalinar's apology) Elhokar is the only one who makes a real job of it, though he does not say the words ‘I’m sorry’ he does say what matters. He admits that he was wrong and he admits why he did it, he does this both to himself and to the person that he wronged. He humbles himself, he explains his hopes and his (many) faults and even asks for help in doing what is right. Of course he is drunk, in vino veritas as they say. A bewildered Kaladin shoots him down but he is still determined to figure how to do things better. You could also argue that there is strength in not saying ‘I’m sorry’ because when you formalise an apology too much you run the risk of doing it simply to clear your own conscience by getting forgiveness. The Wheel of Time is also good for looking at apologies specifically Elayne, Nynaeve and Egwene’s apologies to Mat. Let’s be honest, they each owed him big time for both rescuing them and for their treatment of him afterwards. Elayne and Nynaeve both get called out on their behaviour by Birgitte and Aviendha and made to apologise but as with Amaram above these apologies are completely insincere and only done with extreme reluctance. Elayne only regrets that she has somehow disappointed Aviendha and Nynaeve is… Nynaeve. Neither truly regrets their actions and their apologies are simply expected formality. It is only later that they work out Mat’s value as a person (and a friend) and they both make it up to him, Elayne in the way she treats him when they meet up again in Andor and Nynaeve in defending him when Tuon insults him (specifically mentioning the rescue). Both girls made a reluctant apology then backed it up later with actions, justifying their growth. Egwene on the other hand never apologises for any of her actions, she doesn’t learn to be a better person she learns to be an Aes Sedai. Perhaps if she had made friends willing to call her out more often (she sadly lost Aviendha to Elayne in that regard) she would not have been the only main character to… well, you know.., karma for not growing. (um, that is that she wouldn’t have… not that others would too). Thoughts?
  8. A large group, not a majority but quite a few people, seem to have an issue with Kaladin's attitude in WoR. Yes, he has a chip the size of a boulder on his shoulder. Yes, he is down right rude to most lighteyes, though to be fair this happened more often after Amaram arrived on the shattered plains. Yes, he has paranoid illogical fears. And you know what, thank goodness. If he didn't he wouldn't be human. He would be a perfect Gary Stu character. Kaladin has just spent a year being destroyed as a human being and being broken for the second time in his life. The first time happened when he lost his brother and he still isn't over that event. Maybe that will be his character arc in book 3. Anyway, if Kaladin were happy it wouldn't be realistic. If he believed wholeheartedly in Dalinar and Adolin it would seem fake. TWoKs was about Kaladin discovering he wasn't powerless and did have control over his life. He only somewhat trusted Dalinar because of one unusual event and Syl's word. In fact I think Syl's opinion of Dalinar had far more to do with Kaladin's choice to put his livelihood in Dalinar's hands. WoR is about him learning to trust again and learning how his choices effect him. And he came through his issues in about two months. People who have been through trauma like his can take years to come to the place he did by the end of WoR. Also, he was aware he wasn't thinking and acting right. He admitted to himself and Syl several times throughout the book. Knowing you have a problem is only the first step in working through it. It took exposure to the Kholins and Shallan to realize how wrong he was about lighteyes in general and that someone with lighteyes could be trusted. This was a really important lesson to learn before he became one himself. Further he needed to trust that his power would not be taken from him again before he could be the poster boy for the KR. Dalinar might be the leader, but he will be in the background. Kaladin will be the champion leading the charge and he will be the face of the Radiants to Roshar. The man at the end of TWoKs or at the beginning of WoR could not have filled that role. Kaladin had already been in that role before when he was Kaladin Stormblessed, the youngest and most celebrated squadleader in Amaram's army. He was already a rising star and then he lost it all. Of course he would believe that it all could be taken from him. All his power was taken from him before. I think that is the reason most of Bridge Four adjusted to freedom better than he did. This new life in Dalinar's army was a first for them and they had Kaladin to protect them. Kaladin didn't have anyone to protect him accept Dalinar and he wasn't completely sure about Dalinar. I was so shocked when Kaladin told Dalinar about Amaram's betrayal. The fact that Kaladin did so was very brave and showed that he was trying. So that's my opinion on Kaladin's attitude in this book. I do hope this is the most angst we get from Kal for the rest of the series. He came a long way in WoR and I found the journey compelling and believable. But if you disagree I would love to discuss it.