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  1. I'm just curious about what orders the 17th Shard is made up of, I'm a Willshaper What are you? Here's the quiz https://www.brandonsanderson.com/official-knights-radiant-order-quiz/
  2. In accordance with the Shard's RP spoiler policy, this thread contains Rhythm of War spoilers. Read at your own risk. Inspiration for the RP~ We have a short prequel currently in its climax, The Knights Next Prequel! We also have a Discord server, come join us! If both sets of orders are filled and you still want to join, don't worry! You can also roleplay with a character who isn't a Knight Radiant. We'd love to write with you. (Depending on how many roleplayers join us for the sequel, a third set of Radiants may be opened up.) FIRST SET OF ORDERS: Skybreaker is free! Windrunner ~ Aragorn Skybreaker ~ Dustbringer ~ Sorana Edgedancer ~ Sherlock Holmes Truthwatcher ~ Lunamor Lightweaver ~ ShadowLord_Lith Elsecaller ~ HoidWasTaken Willshaper ~ AonEne Stoneward ~ I think I am here. Bondsmith ~ Dr. Dapper SECOND SET OF ORDERS: Truthwatcher and Edgedancer are free! Windrunner ~ xinoehp512 Skybreaker ~ Emi Dustbringer ~ Reserved for Po Edgedancer ~ Truthwatcher ~ Lightweaver ~ Empress Stick Elsecaller ~ BookishOcelot Willshaper ~ Eluvianii Stoneward ~ Channelknight Fadran Bondsmith ~ Wyndlerunner Non-Radiant Characters: Sha-thoexis, Unmade Dr. Dapper; Jamie, Twinborn xinoehp512; Thade, Enlightened Hope Spren; Evelyn, Elantrian Blessing of Potency; Ashlyn, unInvested human Tesh; Ayalin, Mistborn The_Archivist; Everest, Full Feruchemist Random Bystander; Lapis, sand master From here on out, OOC conversation or discussion goes in quotes. I'll add rules and setting as needed. Setting/Worldbuilding: Give your character a name from Earth! This still gives you plenty of freedom, but try not to be obviously weird. If the name would make people look at your character funny after they introduce themselves, think of a new one. Our characters will be living in normal houses and attending a normal school. No boarding schools or homeschooling, though those circumstances can apply to their pasts. We all go to the same school. We live in Seattle; it’s March 2019. The public will find out about Investiture at the end of The Knights Next Door. We will then have a timeskip of 20 years into the future to when our kids, should our characters choose to have any, are teenagers for the sequel (which will be called The Knights Next Gen or The Knights Next Generation). Immediately after this timeskip, some of us will write stuff about specific new technology that we think is reasonable and that may or may not impact us or the plot in any way. All unInvested people will now see (insert other senses here) Invested objects and people differently from how they actually are, filling in anything that can’t be explained with something that makes more sense to them. They will be able to be confused or suspicious about these things. This is because of a sentient but not sapient Unmade called Sha-thoexis. Sha-thoexis: An Unmade that stops people from realizing what we do; smaller strange issues get glossed over, but if you really force someone to see what we are doing, then they will understand that something is off; this knowledge can fade over time again, if no additional reminder is set Sha-thoexis is able to lure a Radiant into breaking their oaths and can injure and kill an Invested person in their dreams Bondsmiths are able to partially influence dreams induced by Sha-thoexis by moving Invested beings around, therefore offering the chance to fight back together Violet crystals: These crystals can power Voidbringers, make them stronger; they have the ability to influence mortals in a way that is beneficial for the Voidbringers They are like seeds, extending roots into the ground It is possible to destroy them, if several Radiants work together (stop them from growing more roots, shatter them) What happens if such a seed has the time to blossom is unknown/undecided Our house: Backyard: large pool, enough space to spar outside, a special huge tree with branches reaching one of the windows in the first floor, the overlook - a stone terrace with chairs positioned to look out over the city, a firepit, and a small fridge Basement: huge training room/armory, storage, Doc's inventing room, multipurpose room Ground floor: kitchen, dining room, living room, a few other smaller rooms with couches/TVs/etc, the study First floor: several bathrooms, rooms for each inhabitant of the house plus extra (the room in the corner that can be reached by climbing up the tree has been claimed by Shana) A few more floors and an attic with rooms and storage Garage: several cars and motorcycles Voidbringers: Voidbringers are humans who bond Voidspren (not singers) The first sign of their corruption is red eyes, further signs of corruption have to be decided upon Investiture: Investiture is spread out around the planet Our characters currently know only about AonDor, Allomancy, Feruchemy and of course Surgebinding Radiants generate a small of amount of Stormlight naturally, which is saved in crystals Data and wireless communications have beads in the Cognitive Realm like anything else, which move quickly through the air AonDor originated in Russia Forgery originated in China, Bloodsealing in Japan ChayShan originated in India The Metallic Arts originated in Europe, then spread to North America Egypt/Saudi Arabia and the surrounding countries have Awakening and Returned Aviar (specifically, the parasites, and any other Drominad magic should it be discovered) are in the Polynesian islands Australia has Ashynite disease magic; Australia also has the Silverlight Academy (located in Perth) The Sahara and Gobi deserts have sand mastery Surgebinding is native to the American continents Yolish Lightweaving is in Southern Africa Aethers come from Brazil in South America Make sure to be nice and have fun!
  3. Apologies if anyone has already posted this. I have an idea for what Radiants get for their 5th Ideal. 3rd Ideal they get their Shardblade, 4th they get Shardplate, 5th? They get a fabrial. Specifically, this is where all Soulcasters come from along with the Regrowth Fabrial that Nale uses to resurrect Szeth. The 5th Ideal Radiants gain the ability to lend not just their Spren as a sword, not just their armor, but their very powers to someone else, and this is why non-Radiant Soulcasters become Savants in a long-term fatal manner. Navani still doesn't know how Soulcasters work, other than they're spren? Answer, it's the exact same mechanism that drove her crazy about Shardblades and Shardplate. WoBs: Thoughts?
  4. FXL3

    List of Oaths?

    Hi all, I had a question about the what we currently know about each of the radiant Oaths. Is there a good resource on what oath we believe each known radiant is on (shallan is wonky but is there a consensus about what oath she's on? What about the non-kaladin windrunners?), what powers are associated with said oath (when does their order grant shardplate, etc), And a timeline of when we think they achieved each oath level? I know some (shallan) are inherently confusing. But I'm also curious about more straightforward oaths- like lopen and sigzil.
  5. Theoretically speaking, it is possible to bonds 2 radiant spren and even to belong to 2 different orders. As long as you could find spren who were cool with it and could maintain oaths on both sides, it’d be possible. Alternatively, you could probably be a squire to another order, even as a full Radiaint. At the most extreme point, you could theoretically bond every order, though it’d be practically impossible to keep your oaths at that point. Nevertheless, I thought I’d ask to see how far you guys would go For the purposes of this exercise, let’s handwave away any mechanical difficulties of forging more than bonds and imagine they can be established just as if they were seperate. Would you be willing to bond multiple spren? Or be a knight of one to more order and a squire in others? Which orders would those be? Keep in mind that you may not be able to be a squire for Edgedancers, Elsecallers, or Truthwatchers. https://www.brandonsanderson.com/the-ten-orders-of-knights-radiant/
  6. Introduction Well, this is one of the most incoherent theories I've ever cobbled together. But I think I have something, at the very least. Regardless, here we go. I will first state the theory, for the sake of retaining reader attention, then explain the evidence I have to prove it. Whatever the case, I believe I have found the nature of whatever resonance the Truthwatchers possess, or at the very least an ability they somehow employ. I will delay no further; I believe the Truthwatchers had the ability glimpse the future. Please understand, I have not taken temporary leave of my sanity. I know Renarin is not a true Truthwatcher, and I understand the Surges as well as any Cosmerenaut. Allow me to present my evidence, such as it is. Evidence 1: The Urithiru Gem Archive I think everyone who's closely read the epigraphs has flirted with this theory at one time or another. I quote below an entry made by an unknown Truthwatcher, detailing their plan to deny Voidlight to the parsh armies. See below: It has already been established that the gem type corresponds with the Order of Knight who recorded the message. I invite all to look at the final message, recorded in "a particularly small emerald." Obviously, whoever recorded it must have felt a need to record their foresight. Now, this can be taken two ways. The Truthwatcher had an uncannily acute sense of foresight, and very accurately judged the eventual findings and conclusions of a group of scholars, tacticians, and warriors. The word "foresaw" was used in a more literal sense. I'm inclined to believe the latter, for the fact that the gem was "particularly small" as well as the Truthwatcher's evident need for secrecy. Evidence 2: The Surgebinding Chart It is interesting to note how specifically the Truthwatchers are placed. Directly below the Bondsmiths. Not only this, but a strange line connects the two, completely unrelated to the surrounding art. I am not the first to note this; indeed, another user asked a question concerning it. Brandon admits that there is some significance to this placement, and that Truthwatchers are different from other Orders in much the same way a Bondsmith is. How interesting, especially in light of Evidence 1. Evidence 3: The Nature of Resonances We have some details concerning the nature of resonances. Kaladin and Shallan---and to a certain extent, Jasnah and Lift---have all demonstrated abilities that occur from their two Surges interacting. Kaladin can adopt far more squires, and those of far more power, than any other order. Shallan has uncanny mnemonic abilities that Brandon attributes to her order. The same goes for Kaladin. Jasnah is noted by Wit as having an uncanny sense of direction, leading to some speculation among the fanbase. Then Lift, who displayed a very keen sense of comprehension in the face of street slang worse than that of Spook's. What's interesting is how all these resonances seem have certain common characteristics. These are the ones I have noted. The resonances we do have, and some suspected ones, are at least tangentially related to the Surges that produce them. The resonances, at least in the case of Knights Radiant, seem to follow their order's underlying themes. There seems to be an almost thematic connection between the Surges and the resonance. Evidence 4: Renarin Fear not, intrepid readers, for I yet retain my sanity. I bring up Renarin only to point out the connection between this theory and one of Renarin's main abilities. As a Cosmerenaut, I do not believe much in coincidences, and find it very convenient that a Truthwatcher of old "foresaw" something, and Renarin, a corrupted Truthwatcher, sees the future in intermittent fits. Putting It All Together From all these pieces of evidence, I believe enough data has been gathered to draw conclusions. So, diving right in, we start with the very high likelihood that a Truthwatcher past somehow saw the future. This was something he fear, or was ashamed of, but regardless felt necessary to maintain secrecy over. Evidence 2 introduces the thought that Truthwatchers have some abilities that almost resemble those of a Bondsmith. At the very least, they have something Cognitively and Spiritually related. We know that seeing the future involves the Spiritual Realm, where time has no meaning. The conclusions drawn from Evidence 3 are the shakiest I have to offer, but I'll do my best to be clear. Truthwatchers of Ideals surrounding the nature of truth, and seeking it out. Thus, they are commonly scholars and scientists. They seek to banish lies and understand the world better. More than that, the Surges exclusive to Truthwatchers are those of Progression and Illumination. What an interesting combination. Looking at these purely thematically, a combination of the two might illuminate a future path, a way of progressing forwards. Finally, Renarin. Again, I find it far too coincidental how he can see the future. And perhaps this provides some insight as to the nature of Sja-anat's Enlightening. Maybe Enlightened spren almost lean into the resonance, and that is the pattern of affected Orders. Conclusion None of these pieces of evidence alone serve to help prove this theory. When taken together, however, the connections drawn follow some common paths. If you have any thoughts over this, please comment so. Any and all criticism are welcome. Many thanks for reading, Longshot97
  7. So the flatulent pancake people by combining the Surges of Adhesion and Division clearly comprise the Order of Windbreakers.
  8. So hypothetical question, let's say you have the stupidly rare opportunity to Bond with any 2 Spren of your choosing, which of the 10 Orders would you simultaneously join? You have to uphold the Oaths from both Orders you choose. I'd choose Willshaper and Windrunner, simply because their oaths would match up pretty well, with saving people and freeing people being the core elements. Plus the powers would be awesome when used together. Any thoughts?
  9. Alright, so I've seen a bunch of "Mistborn vs Knight Radiant" and Jedi vs Knight Radiant, and because I haven't the time nor patience to read through all of those, I'm going to pose a question that's likely already been answered. Let's say that a bunch of the "strongest" investiture users across the Cosmere had a a fight. I'm not counting any Yolen natives cause all the ones we know of we don't know a lot about their magic and a lot of them are OP. So: Here we go. Representing Scadrial, it's the Fullborn, from Roshar the 5th Ideal Knight Radiant (Pick the Order you think is the best in a fight), The God King from Nalthis, let's say an Elantrian as good as Raoden, a Sand Master who can control, let's say, 30 threads. I'm not gonna count shades cause most of these guys can outrun or kill a shade with relative ease, and First of the Sun doesn't have a lot of physically manifested Investiture besides the mind-reading guys, who aren't human and I feel they can also be killed with relative ease, so we'll just go with the above. God-King, Fullborn, 5th Ideal Radiant of any Order, Sand Master with 30 Threads and Salitrification, Elantrian. And they're fighting in a place where Elantrian magic is strong and the Sand Master has enough Taldain Sand for years. Edit: Nightmaws and Deepstalkers as well as Shades are included
  10. If it does, that would be a bit OP... like the implications of that would be insane.
  11. Moash and Kaladin were both raised to 4th nahn and granted land for becoming Shardbearers. Are all Radiants who reach the Shardblade oath being granted 4th nahn status? The land part doesn’t mean much while Alethkar is occupied, but if the humans retake the country, will loads of former darkeyes take over parcels of land across Alethkar? Will natural-born lighteyes accept that? It’s one thing in exile during a time of emergency, but I bet many of them want to return to the previous status quo. I think darkeyes, both Radiants and regular, will have to struggle during peacetime to keep the gains they made during the war with the fused/singers.
  12. We have info from WoBs and in universe conversations which say that the Surges manifest different for the different Orders. However, we don't really see that. We mostly see that whatever one Windrunner can do with Gravitation, a Skybreaker can also do with Gravitation, or that whatever an Elsecaller can do with Transformation, a Lightweaver can do. Discounting Renarin and Bondsmiths because they are the exception which prove the rule. But upon reread, which I do a lot of, I think I can see a very good example of one time where we see a Surge manifest differently between orders. In Oathbringer, when Kaladin is flying a group of people above a highstorm, he says that he's not just making them fall forwards like normal, he's also creating a sort of wind funnel around them, keeping them from all separating in the wind. I think that's a Windrunner only ability. Scientifically, Kal has created a bubble of higher pressure air around him and his friends, keeping the winds from disrupting them too much. That's Adhesion. While Adhesion sticks things together, its not with a chemical bond like glue, its with suction. Air pressure. My theory is that every order of Knights Radiant uses a little of their other Surge whenever they use a Surge. Windrunner Basic Lashings also manipulate air pressure while their Full Lashings also manipulate gravity (maybe, I have no proof for this). Lightweaver, well, Lightweavings have a little bit of Soulcasting in them, adding extra substance to the illusion (see the Battle of Thaylen Field for a disputed example). If this theory is correct, that would explain why the Surges manifest differently between Orders, even if only in small ways. The Knights can't stop themselves from using a tiny amount of their other Surge whenever they use one. However, I want to add one more thing to this, something I've seen most other people miss (and something I reeeeeeally want to ask Brandon about.) The Essences. Each Order is associated with an Essence, and while we normally think of these for Soulcasting as they play an important role in limiting that power, I think they're more important than just that. We don't know if that association is just cultural or if its magical, and even if it is just cultural then it might have become magical through the ways that the Cognitive Realm functions. If it is magical, then what happens if we change that association? What if he had a Windrunner who's essence was Blood instead of Wind? Would that change their powers at all? Would it change their Resonance? Anyway, a question that I think should be asked at the next QnA with Brandon is: "Each Order of the Knights Radiant has two Surges they can use and an essence associated with them. Is that association simply cultural, or is it magical? Would changing the essence of an Order change they way they use their powers?"
  13. Are Knights Radiant always bonded to spren of the gender they find attractive in humans? I was thinking that Knights Radiant were always bonded to member of the opposite gender, but then I remembered that Renarin and Rlain are bonded to masculine spren. Renarin and Rlain are attracted to masculine people, though, so now I'm wondering if Radiants always bond spren of the gender they're attracted to (in humans).
  14. So, no idea if anyone actually knows the answer to this, but seeing as Stormlight healing works based on the Spiritual self (hence why no Shash-brand healing), could Radiants use Stormlight to accelerate their gains from working out by speeding up the rate at which their muscles heal, stronger? I'm honestly not sure one way or another, and wanted to open up the question.
  15. Is there a quiz somewhere you can take to see which order of knights radiant you belong in, like the quiz on pottermore that sorts you into a Hogwarts house?
  16. Spoilers for the Sixth of the Dusk sequel excerpt. Specifically, this: And this: And for some context, this: What in the world is this? He behaves like a Skybreaker, but he glows violet. The color of Willshapers and Voidlight. What is going on here? Does Skybreaker plate glow violet instead of gray or is this Radiant - assuming he is a Radiant - using Voidlight?
  17. Who do you think might become the third bondsmith? This topic has probably been explored on this forum, but I can't find it, so it's probably time for another post. Also, do we know for a fact that the third bondsmith spren is the Nightwatcher? My guesses, such as they are, are Adolin, Hesina, or Dabbid.
  18. Not sure if this was shared before but I believe the Knights broke their oaths on purpose to be able to arm the future residents or Roshar. They knew the Desolations were getting closer and close in such a way that civilization had a hard time catching up between. They decided to break their oaths knowing they would leave behind lots of Shardblades and Plate. They probably assigned a certain group to collect and hide them until the "time is right." Now the True Desolation is upon us and once that cache is found I think it will be a big help to the allied forces of Roshar. Also look up the opposite of the word Recreance, alot of words like Bravery and Courage, and Honor!
  19. Lirin, love him or hate him, is of Honor: he keeps his oath to a fault. So is he going to get a spren? I hope so. What kind? Well, here's my controversial idea: Lirin will bond an honorspren and become a Windrunner, and this has already been foreshadowed. Hear me out. Kaladin became a surgeon, at least temporarily, without breaking his oaths to protect. Being a surgeon, Kaladin discovered, qualifies as protecting people. Although Kaladin realized that due to the circumstances would eventually need to fight to protect, for some time in Rhythm of War he was simply working as a surgeon, with no intention of ever violently protecting anyone ever again, and his bond with Syl was just fine, unlike the time he almost broke his oath by betraying Elhokar. But would Lirin be breaking his oath if he refused to violently protect someone when necessary? Unlikely. Radiant oaths/ideals are subject to the interpretation of each radiant and spren. This has been confirmed. And since Kaladin's Third Ideal was "I will protect even those I hate, so long as it is right," we know that Windrunners don't have to protect when it is wrong to do so. If Lirin (and perhaps his spren) think violence is wrong, their interpretation of wrong-ness defines what breaks the ideals and what doesn't. It might even be enough for Lirin alone to think that he is keeping his oath, even if his spren disagrees. This is not yet clear. But does Lirin interpret his actions as protecting people through non-violent means? Or does he practice non-violence even though he thinks it means he can't protect people? Well, wasn't one of his reasons for avoiding war that when he fought back he got people killed? Getting people killed is the opposite of protecting them. I think he clearly thinks that he protects people specifically by refusing to be violent, and he probably also thinks he is protecting them by being a surgeon, as Kaladin did. Even if he doesn't use the word "protect" when thinking of surgery, surely the explicit use of that exact word isn't required there. Some may think Lirin wouldn't want to become a Windrunner. I agree. But it probably doesn't matter. Kaladin had no idea he was bonding Syl until it had already happened. Lirin could bond an honorspren without even realizing it. He might be deeply disturbed to discover he had formed a Windrunner bond. That is one reason I hope he bonds an honorspren. Such potential for drama! Lirin's potential feeling about the bond probably don't change the likelihood of the bond occurring. If he protects people as a matter of oath, he's suited to bond an honorspren, whether he thinks he is or not. He has only to think he is keeping his oaths to protect as long as it is right, not to think that being a Windrunner doesn't entail evil violence or killing your spren. Let's talk about the drama. Imagine Lirin being thrilled to discover his spren didn't die when he refused to kill someone. Or imagine Lirin recovering from the guilt of having caused Tien's death by fighting back, and therefore with a clean conscience killing a would-be murderer. Or imagine if Lirin started to understand he could kill to protect, but was undecided, made the wrong decision, and killed his spren. Imagine a desperate leader trying to force an unwilling Lirin to fight among the Windrunners, and Lirin fleeing, perhaps with Kaladin's help. Imagine Lirin trying to understand his bond and his oaths as Kaladin tried to help him. If Lirin bonded an oddball honorspren pacifist or an oddball honorspren who is just ornery and respects Lirins pacifism while other honorspren shy away, that spen could be a lot of fun to read about. Or if a normal honorspren bonded with him, respecting Lirin's honorable oath-keeping but disagreeing with his methods, imagine the arguments, the weirdness, and the tension. What if Lirin accidentally swore the first ideal while arguing with Kaladin or someone? You think you're so high and mighty, Knight Radiant? Well *I* put life before death, strength before weakness, and journey before destination! I think I always have! You don't get to claim that your better than us mortals because... Oh no. What is happening to me? And Lirin starts to glow.... And there's a reason I think he should be a Windrunner instead of a member of some other radiant order. It isn't just wishful thinking. The Windrunners' spren are honorspren. And like I said, Lirin is of Honor. Lirin is of Honor more than anyone else in on Roshar, because, no matter what the cost, he keeps his oaths. And that is what Honor, and I guess honorspren, values above all. And yes, this has been foreshadowed. Kaladin speculate that Syl could become a shardblade surgical instrument and suspect that the bond could be used in other ways if the radiants weren't constantly distracted by war. Obviously that applies to Kaladin, but also, potentially, to Lirin. And Kaladin's and Lirin's character arcs were clearly meant to be parallel, ending with their double baptism in the storm as they fell off the tower of Urithiru. That was where Kaladin swore the fourth ideal. Will Lirin swear his first?
  20. Lirin, love him or hate him, is of Honor: he keeps his oath to a fault. So is he going to get a spren? I hope so. What kind? Well, here's my controversial idea: Lirin will bond an honorspren and become a Windrunner, and this has already been foreshadowed. Hear me out. Kaladin became a surgeon, at least temporarily, without breaking his oaths to protect. Being a surgeon, Kaladin discovered, qualifies as protecting people. Although Kaladin realized that due to the circumstances would eventually need to fight to protect, for some time in Rhythm of War he was simply working as a surgeon, with no intention of ever violently protecting anyone ever again, and his bond with Syl was just fine, unlike the time he almost broke his oath by betraying Elhokar. But would Lirin be breaking his oath if he refused to violently protect someone when necessary? Unlikely. Radiant oaths/ideals are subject to the interpretation of each radiant and spren. This has been confirmed. And since Kaladin's Third Ideal was "I will protect even those I hate, so long as it is right," we know that Windrunners don't have to protect when it is wrong to do so. If Lirin (and perhaps his spren) think violence is wrong, their interpretation of wrong-ness defines what breaks the ideals and what doesn't. It might even be enough for Lirin alone to think that he is keeping his oath, even if his spren disagrees. This is not yet clear. But does Lirin interpret his actions as protecting people through non-violent means? Or does he practice non-violence even though he thinks it means he can't protect people? Well, wasn't one of his reasons for avoiding war that when he fought back he got people killed? Getting people killed is the opposite of protecting them. I think he clearly thinks that he protects people specifically by refusing to be violent, and he probably also thinks he is protecting them by being a surgeon, as Kaladin did. Even if he doesn't use the word "protect" when thinking of surgery, surely the explicit use of that exact word isn't required there. Some may think Lirin wouldn't want to become a Windrunner. I agree. But it probably doesn't matter. Kaladin had no idea he was bonding Syl until it had already happened. Lirin could bond an honorspren without even realizing it. He might be deeply disturbed to discover he had formed a Windrunner bond. That is one reason I hope he bonds an honorspren. Such potential for drama! Lirin's potential feeling about the bond probably don't change the likelihood of the bond occurring. If he protects people as a matter of oath, he's suited to bond an honorspren, whether he thinks he is or not. He has only to think he is keeping his oaths to protect as long as it is right, not to think that being a Windrunner doesn't entail evil violence or killing your spren. Let's talk about the drama. Imagine Lirin being thrilled to discover his spren didn't die when he refused to kill someone. Or imagine Lirin recovering from the guilt of having caused Tien's death by fighting back, and therefore with a clean conscience killing a would-be murderer. Or imagine if Lirin started to understand he could kill to protect, but was undecided, made the wrong decision, and killed his spren. Imagine a desperate leader trying to force an unwilling Lirin to fight among the Windrunners, and Lirin fleeing, perhaps with Kaladin's help. Imagine Lirin trying to understand his bond and his oaths as Kaladin tried to help him. If Lirin bonded an oddball honorspren pacifist or an oddball honorspren who is just ornery and respects Lirins pacifism while other honorspren shy away, that spen could be a lot of fun to read about. Or if a normal honorspren bonded with him, respecting Lirin's honorable oath-keeping but disagreeing with his methods, imagine the arguments, the weirdness, and the tension. What if Lirin accidentally swore the first ideal while arguing with Kaladin or someone? You think you're so high and mighty, Knight Radiant? Well *I* put life before death, strength before weakness, and journey before destination! I think I always have! You don't get to claim that your better than us mortals because... Oh no. What is happening to me? And Lirin starts to glow.... And there's a reason I think he should be a Windrunner instead of a member of some other radiant order. It isn't just wishful thinking. The Windrunners' spren are honorspren. And like I said, Lirin is of Honor. Lirin is of Honor more than anyone else in on Roshar, because, no matter what the cost, he keeps his oaths. And that is what Honor, and I guess honorspren, values above all. And yes, this has been foreshadowed. Kaladin speculate that Syl could become a shardblade surgical instrument and suspect that the bond could be used in other ways if the radiants weren't constantly distracted by war. Obviously that applies to Kaladin, but also, potentially, to Lirin. And Kaladin's and Lirin's character arcs were clearly meant to be parallel, ending with their double baptism in the storm as they fell off the tower of Urithiru. That was where Kaladin swore the fourth ideal. Will Lirin swear his first?
  21. I thought of Dwight Schrute as being a Skybreaker, and then I thought it would be fun to do it for other characters of similar shows. Anyone have any ideas for the ones I left blank? Or any additional members for the orders I put? Windrunner: Skybreakers: Dwight Schrute I think Dwight would totally assassinate a dozen or so world leaders because of a weird law with a rock. He might even, one day, become the Assistant to the Herald of Law. Dustbringer: Edgedancer: Marshall Erickson Environmentalist. Lawyer for the little guy. Friendly, walks down the street like he’s already friends with everyone. Just a genuinely caring guy. Truthwatcher: Lightweaver: Tom Haverford/ Barney Stinson I considered Jim Halpert as a Lightweaver, as he doesn’t admit truths for the first 4 seasons of the show. He obfuscates, and almost all of his dialogue is subtextual. But, Tom is perfect for the order. He presents a facade constantly, is showy and relies on light shows, he lives a lie in his marriage, etc. The same for Barney, with his plays and magic and constant lying, to himself and those around him, in order to hide his deep-rooted insecurities. I think Pam and Jim would both fit in here for the above reasons. Lily from HIMYM would fit too, I think Not just as an artist, but because she represses uncomfortable things. This is the order I got all 4 times I took the test. So, there might be more Lightweavers here because I relate to these characters in various ways. Elsecaller: Ben Wyatt The ideal of attaining one’s potential is a big driver behind Wyatt’s arc. I thought Dustbringer at first because his early motivation is almost solely proving his fiscal responsibility following Icetown. But, his larger arc has to do with reaching higher and for what he actually desires rather than settling for the in-house accounting job. And his accounting career post-Icetown is mostly to prove that he can be fiscally responsible, rather than actually caring so much about the fiscal responsibility as an intrinsic good. His desire for self-mastery is a stepping stone towards reaching his potential. I think Leslie fits here too. I could see arguments for putting Leslie in a lot of different orders. Willshaper: Ron Swanson Craftsman, Libertarian (I considered Stoneward because of his temperament, but he is most definitely not interested in being there when needed). The notion of the Willshapers being craftsmen isn’t super explored in RoW, but I think Ron would fit in well with the Dawnsingers, shaping the stones. Stoneward: Bondsmith: Robert California This is almost a joke, but just almost. I think Robert would convince the Sibling to bond with him as the Sibling is rather susceptible to skilled persuasion. Robert would really only do this so he could have Urithiru as his bachelor’s palace, the temple to wine and sex. He also would totally start his own religion.
  22. I don’t know if this has been done on this site before but here we go: You can make your own Knights Radiant Order. Your Order’s name: Your Order’s spren: Your ideals: Your Surges: Other Characteristics:
  23. I was wondering about the creepy stuff Ishar was doing with forcing sentient spren to enter the Physical Realm. First of all, I'm pretty sure that this is not the same as a spren manifesting, since Cryptics can obviously survive manifestation. Instead, he seems to be forcing them to become physical beings instead of cognitive. So then: What would happen if he did this to a bonded spren? Would the bond simply disappear, since it can't exist between 2 physical beings? Would they both be Surgebinders? Or would it be something else? The theory I came up with is ridiculous, but a fun idea: What if the Nahel bond is defined as between 1 cognitive and 1 physical being, so when Ishar shoves the spren into the Physical Realm, the Knight is conversely shoved into the Spiritual? It doesn't make sense, but it would be fun!
  24. I'm putting this here 'cause the other thread I found about it was closed to new comments. I reread Rhythm of War recently, and I was reading on the Coppermind about Nale, and there's a section of his abilities titled "Lawman". As I've always been interested seeing what Radiant order other cosmere characters would belong to if they could (Wayne being an odd Edgedancer, Rashek being an okay but not great Skybreaker, Spensa likely being a Dustbringer, etc.), I started thinking about Wax. Wax's chosen calling is to uphold the law, especially in the Roughs, where he tells Granite Joe "You might not need Elendel's laws, but that doesn't mean you don't need any laws at all." Later on in Shadows of Self, he breaks up a protest blocking Tindwyl Promenade, and when one of the beleaguered constables expresses empathy with the strikers, Wax says, "Whatever their grievances, it doesn't give them the right to block an important thoroughfare." The more I read, the more certain I become that Wax is most definitely a Skybreaker. The final thing that pushed it over the top is when he's contemplating the differences between lawkeeping in the Roughs and lawkeeping in Elendel, and he thinks to himself, "Out in the Roughs he hadn't just enforced the law; he'd interpreted it, revised it when needed. He had been the law." That more than anything struck me once I thought about the oaths of the Skybreakers. The Fifth Ideal of the Skybreakers is to become the law. Now that I think about it, It seems that Wax's Second Ideal would've been the standard "I swear to seek justice", his Third Ideal might've been reached when he decided to begin his career as a lawman with "I swear to bring to justice those that break the law", his Fourth Ideal might be "I swear to hunt down my uncle Edwarn and thwart his plot to take over the Basin", and finally reach the Fifth Ideal, where he becomes the law, which he seems to have achieved out in the Roughs but not in Elendel. In the other thread about this, there were people saying that Wax is too willing to bend the rules to qualify as a Skybreakers, and to that I say, Nale and his Skybreakers in modern times are not the be all and end all of Skybreakers. The Skybreakers in modern times follow the law unquestioningly, but that's largely a result of Nale having his empathy tortured out of him on Braize, and not being sure of his own morality, so he seeks morality in the legal codes of others. But we're given a glimpse in RoW of a time when Nale says, "The law cannot be moral, but you can be moral as you create the law." This seems to align much more with Wax's philosophy, and Nale's insistence on Skybreakers following an external code might be why no Skybreaker has achieved the Fifth Ideal in centuries, as the Fifth Ideal seems to about recognizing the mistakes the law can make and being willing to change it to uphold justice. Wax seeks to do good in the world by enforcing the law, but he's willing to change the law or bend the rules when the rules are unjust, and remember that Nale, and also the Skybreakers, in the old days was associated with the attributes just and confident, and Szeth, when he swears the Second Ideal, swears to seek justice, not follow the law. Windrunners, meanwhile, are associated with the attributes protecting and leading, which don't fit Wax quite as well as the attributes of the Skybreakers. And if you think about it, Wax is feared and held in awe by most people, similar to how Nale is by Ulim, Venli, Lift, and so many others on Roshar, but Wax isn't looked up to as a protector and inspiration in the same way Kaladin is. Wax isn't a person who inspires you to follow him, but is very much a person who will hunt you down if you break the law. While I do think Windrunners and Skybreakers are very similar in motivation and both good fits for Wax, I think the main difference is that Skybreakers seek to do good within the law, while the Windrunners aren't as concerned with the law and would prefer to do what they think is right. As such, given that Wax tries to better the world by upholding the law and bringing justice to those that break it, I think he is most solidly a Skybreaker, likely one able to achieve the Fifth Ideal.
  25. Hello all! I am making this for any windrunners out there, so we can talk about being the coolest order of knights radiant, and everything else. Speak again the ancient oaths: Life before Death Strength before Weakness Journey before Destination Windrunners rule!
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