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  1. Is it possible that one of Shallan's brothers betrayed her location to the Ghostbloods to buy them time/repay their debt? If they were capable of tracking Jasnah through something like a ship's manifest, why did it take them until the Wind's Pleasure to catch up to her?
  2. From the album: Aismeen’s Stormlight Art

    I just finished a reread of Oathbringer and here’s some art of the Jasnah and Renarin scene at the end!
  3. From the album: Stormlight Fanart

    Based off that one scene from way of kings :]
  4. Hi everyone, I'm not sure if this has been posted already, so go ahead and link it, delete or whatever needs to be done. I've been thinking about the way ideals progress since there's no ironclad definite way to know other than off of personalities of the characters and the information surrounding the knights. The majority of my information for this post will be referenced from this link: https://www.brandonsanderson.com/the-ten-orders-of-knights-radiant/ Well, I think I may have stumbled onto something, I believe that the progression of the ideals is correlated with the clockwise direction of the Herald Wheel. I think it's best I explain using each character so we can go in order: Windrunners 2nd Ideal: “I will protect those who cannot protect themselves.” —The Second Ideal of the Windrunners (as spoken by Kaladin and Lopen) The general motto and purpose of the order. Great. 3rd Ideal: These all have a common theme between them. They each maintain what is a positive distance between what they want to do and what they need to do. There is an order that focuses on moral justice and fairness, more specifically understanding that the rules must be followed over personal attachments. Like the Skybreakers. Their order is all about fairness and it makes sense that Windrunners would add a standard to this ideal. 4th Ideal: I accept that there will be those I cannot protect!” — The Fourth Ideal of the Windrunners (as spoken by Kaladin) Kaladin utters these words when he notices that his friend Teft is dead and he nearly resorts back to the state that did in Kholinar from Elhokar's murder. He is faced with death and will face it more. In order to progress as a leader he must accept that death is a possibility for everyone around him, no matter how hard he tries otherwise. Kaladin is always the first into a fight, he can't help himself. But when he is unable to accomplish his duty, he folds. Bravery is about moving forward despite what perceived failure one might face. While this seemed like an easy villainous act to kill Teft outright but it was actually clinical. He must have noticed how Kaladin reacted to Elhokar and then Roshone, knowing full well this would break him. Something that is a common theme among Dustbringers (I can sense the Moash Dustbringer theory fans rubbing their hands together in delight) The main goal of the Dustbringers is self-control and Kaladin will not be able to function optimally if he's not able to keep it together. 5th Ideal: I AM STORMBLESSED! We obviously don't know the last but I think some of you can tell where I'm going with this. It has been brought up on numerous occasions regarding Kaladin's medical background: He was meant to be trained as a surgeon in Kharabranth. He has trained those under him to render medical care. He talks with Syl about turning into a scalpel. He's trying to join the ardenture as well as help the mentally ill. During the tale end of RoW, we see that Kaladin had misremembered or rather misunderstood Tien's final moments and decision. This moment was instrumental in him reaching the 4th and I believe will play a bigger part in KoWT. These are all traits that an Edgedancer carries out. We know in Book 5 he is traveling to Shinovar to do some healing, in what way we don't know yet. Based on the order's focus on the simpler people, I would imagine he will be focusing on them. Other forms of overlap are that the Edgedancers were made up of nobility or at the very least had the demeanor of one and there are a number of instances in books like WoK and WoR have glimpses of his past with him being teased as a 'lordling' or 'wannabe lighteyes' to paraphrase. Both orders are noted for being scouts and accomplished weapon masters. Skybreakers 3rd Ideal: “I swear to follow the will of Dalinar Kholin. This is my oath. ” —The Third Ideal of the Skybreakers, as sworn by Szeth I skipped to the third to get more to the point. The order of Dustbringers is about being brave and obedient and with this specific oath, the Skybreaker has become precise and how they pursue justice. This guideline can be a law or an individual, in this case, Dalinar. Releasers are about self-control and holding themselves accountable. Szeth has struggled very similarly to Kaladin but in an even more grotesque way. His destructive power is known throughout Roshar as the Assassin in White. The man who killed many, in particular, Gavilar the brother of the man he now serves. 4th Ideal: I will cleanse the Shin of their false leaders, so long as Dalinar Kholin agrees. ” —The Fourth Ideal of the Skybreakers, as spoken by Szeth Here is where I start to stretch things a bit. From the phrasing of the words, it sounds like he is taking out an infection. The last ideal was about learning the boundaries under Dalinar's supervision and now he is acting out his sense of justice with his master's consent until he becomes his own. Edgedancers are all about remembering and this quest is very personal to him and he hasn't been home so he would find that his memory of things will be misconstrued or turn out a lot different than he remembered. Another thing to note is that if my theory is right - Both Kaladin and Szeth are on the same level of progression in the story. Kaladin is on his 4th and working on the 5th with Szeth currently working on the 4th. 5th ideal: I AM THE LAW “If you progress as a Skybreaker, you will need to become the law. To reach your ultimate potential, you must know the truth yourself, rather than relying on the crutch presented by the Third Ideal. Be aware of this.” —Szeth's highspren on the Fifth Ideal Szeth-son-son-Vallano is truthless. Was born in the Valley of Truth. The title is the next release is Knights of Wind and Truth. Need I say more? But in all honesty, will this hasn't been confirmed that I believe Truthwatchers has a resonance of empathy. They can feel people's emotions and in order to be the best law enforcer you need to balance upholding the law with the spirit of said law and how it translates to those involved. Edgedancers 3rd Ideal: “I will listen to those who have been ignored. ” —The Third Ideal of the Edgedancers, as sworn by Lift This one is connected to observing people. In particular, in this case, Lift is trying to convince Nale to see the ever storm which was the first time it forced him to acknowledge his conviction of killing Radiants was misplaced. 4th Ideal: "I will remember to care for myself/I will remember where I came from/I will remember who I used to be." Lightweavers are all about realizing who they really are and noticing the lies people tell themselves. Lift wished that she wouldn't 'grow' anymore but from a physical aspect she's growing. I imagine there is still something left in her past that we haven't come across. Maybe she will admit that she isn't a child anymore? 5th Ideal: "I will always cherish/remember what is most important about myself." Since we have so little on the Elsecaller oaths I can only go off of the purpose of the order which is to reach their potential. In terms of a character arc, this feels like it matches for someone who doesn't want to grow up but will eventually grow up while still keeping the parts of her that define her. Truthwatchers 3rd Ideal: "I will tell someone my truth." I remember towards the end of Way of Kings when Dalinar had commanded Renarin into battle, he tried to convince Dalinar otherwise because he was having his visions or he had seen something that scared him. Anyways, I think he might have sworn his ideal just before he told Dalinar and Adolin about him being a Truthwatcher in Oathbringer. Their order struggles with telling and giving others the information they possess. I even imagine that a lot of starter truthwatchers weren't upfront when they got their bond. 4th Ideal: "I will advise only on the best possible outcome." We get to the Elsecaller aspect which is about potential and the draw would be that with the vast amount of knowledge they know, they would prefer to give the information in a way that does the most good. However, I step out on a leg and say that Renarin's corrupted aspect takes root here. The scene that makes me think Renarin is close or has sworn his new ideal, was his involvement with Taravangian up to getting executed by Szeth. That scene involved T becoming a God. If that doesn't get you shardplate, I don't know what will. 5th Ideal: "I will seek to enlighten those who wish it." There is a subset of truth watchers that are linked to investigative journalists in some of the new info that came out with the release of RoW. Giving people certain amounts of information can be absolutely devastating so the Truthwatcher in question must be sure that the person they are presenting their information in the most altruistic manner even if the main consensus might disagree with it. Lightweavers 2nd truth: “What am I? I'm terrified. ” —A truth as spoken by Shallan It's obvious that most of her arc is about overcoming her fear by using various identities or telling even more painful jokes. 3rd truth: “I'm a murderer. I killed my father. ” —A truth as spoken by Shallan[7] The best connection I can come up with this is the fact that Shallan's father was the one thing stopping Shallan's growth as an individual. We knew that he had saved Shallan after her attempted murder and then covered it up. Whether overtime due to the influence of the unmade or his own personal frustration, his desire to protect Shallan turned into one of abusive control. Her brother might have died had she not poisoned and strangled her father and had she and her siblings never tried to leave, who knows where the family would have ended up. 4th truth: "I killed my spren." -Paraphrased truth spoken by Shallan I don't think it's any surprise that Shallan spoke this truth in RoW that is centered around Willshapers. Blocking out the death of a spren, especially in an environment where killing spren is the biggest taboo within Shadesmar. This is also the time when Shallan loses her persona of Veil. 5th truth: "I am RADIANT!" Shallan has one alter ego left, Radiant. The Stonewards are focused on team dynamics and working with others. We can see glimpses of this with Shallan's 'Unseen Court', her operation with Adolin in tracking down the Sons of Honor, etc. But has always kept things close to the chest with her interactions with the Ghostbloods which she ended in RoW. Up until this point she had one foot in the door and out the other by keeping her dealings a secret until the end of the latest book. It will be interesting to see how all that pans out but at this point, Shallan should be divorced of her wishy-washy attitude to things and acknowledge who she really is. Shallan the RADIANT! Elsecallers As we have no official oaths to link from, I'm just going to base what I think each ideal is off of clues in Jasnah's life. 3rd Ideal: "I will express what I think is the truth" We have a small timeline of seven years off which Jasnah has been bonded to Ivory as her flashbacks to the night of her father's death was were we get a mention of Ivory's appearance. I'm not 100% sure when she started making her secular views open but I will she sure of an ideal when she made such a thing public. 4th Ideal: "I will trust those beside me" For the longest time, Jasnah was on her own in regard to her philosophical views and her knowledge of Voidbringers. The closest was the Veristitalian, which is a group of scholars. I believe she wsore this oath in Oathbringer around when she is considering killing Renarin lest he betrays them all. 5th Ideal: "I will protect the potential for a brighter future." We see Jasnah in RoW standing on the front lines with a blade and plate on. This sort of thing is usually, Kaladin and Dalinar or even Szeth sort of thing. She is coming out of her comfort zone but Hoid reminded her that she is kneecapping herself for the sake of 'fairness' that even she can recognise is pointless. The Windrunners are some of the best warriors in the Radiants along with Stonewards so if my theory is correct, it makes sense this is where Jasnah would be. She is the current Queen of Kholinar and based on her intentions, the last monarch of Kholinar. I don't know how things will pan out but she will be wearing a crown of some sort for the foreseeable future. Willshapers 3rd Ideal: Venli at the end of RoW is now searching for a home for the singers that have left the Fused. Venli up until this point has only been figuring out a means of emancipation for herself and those who are like-minded. But the next stage will be establishing a community will all these singers that have various views despite their shared desire for independence. Most likely they will face persecution from Oduim's forces and she must now have a way of defending these people which means a militia of diverse forces must be established. 4th Ideal: Once her settlement is established, there is a high chance that they will set Venli up as their leader but she will be extremely hesitant to take it or pursue this. 5th Ideal: This will most likely be the most difficult challenge for Venli. For someone who had years of resentment for following the traditions of her tribe only to be shunted in favour of her adventurous sister was what brought on her desire to bring back the Fused. We saw this clearly in the flashbacks of her before the Alethi arrived. I think this definitely makes sense. Let me know what you guys think. Am I full of it and projecting too much or am I doing a poor imitation of someone else's post?
  5. After finishing Rhythm of War, I was quite suspicious of Jasnah. Her professed goals and ideals, as well as her explicitly stated personal morality, simply did not line up with her actions. Recently, I decided to look around at what other people were saying about her and her apparent hypocrisy, and it turned out I was far from the first person to notice. Her treatment of servants, Shallan, and anyone she sees as "lesser" clashes with her rhetoric and political positions, and her aggressive and insulting behavior when questioned on her ideas (most notably with the "kill the Heralds" and the "Singer extermination" proposals) goes completely against her scholarly ideology. Particularly egregiously, despite her frequent affirmations that she's loyal to her family, she would have killed Renarin over her suspicions about his spren. Some people take this to mean she is nothing but a tyrannical hypocrite who loves exerting her power to abuse and control those under her. and others that she's a flawed but noble individual who can't live up to her own impossibly high ideals, but in my opinion both significantly miss the point. I have been in academia for a little more than a decade, and as a mathematician who spends the majority of his time with other mathematicians (and adjacent fields, like theoretical physics or computer science), I have to say that Jasnah is perhaps the single most realistic portrayal of the brilliant-STEM-political-philosopher-type that I have seen in fiction. It's a bit of a dirty not-so-secret that almost any mathematician who makes any serious study of philosophy (political or otherwise) invariably comes up with some radical ideology, which is usually quite unique and never fits on any normal political spectrum -- but you usually won't hear us discussing ours, much less writing them out, as they tend to be quite personal and also, for lack of a better term, terrifying. The issue with us as philosophers is that we tend to work off of axiomatic systems, which lend themselves extremely well to harsh, even brutal ideologies, full of extremely well-justified immoralities-- the thing which makes them terrifying isn't the consequences of the ideology, but the reasons for those consequences. If you agree with the initial axioms, you're forced to agree with the conclusions, and that's why works like Industrial Society and Its Future are so disquieting. The axioms used generally appear reasonable, yet the derived conclusions are, at times, horrific. The intent with these kinds of philosophies is practically always good and agreeable, but the methods of achieving the chosen goals almost invariably lead to some kind of reprehensible result. And yet, despite this, we all dream of our personal ideologies being somehow put into action, and on the rare occasions when we do discuss our philosophies, the phrases "if I had my way" or "if I ruled the world" are quite common. One might draw parallels to Taravangian not being able to make policies when he was too brilliant as in-universe justification for why Plato's ideal of the "philosopher king" might not be so ideal after all. So where does Jasnah fall into this, assuming she's similar to her real-life counterparts? Well, she's a brilliant academic with a somewhat radical professed ideology (and, if the people in the real world are anything to go by, an even more radical actual ideology) who obtains significant power. For all intents and purposes, she does rule the world, kept in check only by Navani and Dalinar (and not even by them, really). She secretly has access to emotional Allomancy to eliminate rivals and manipulate allies, and she has already begun dismantling many elements of Alethi society. Sure, her stated ideology is probably close to her real ideology, and sure, she can get enraged and irrational at times, but at the end of the day, much of what she's doing is a means to an end: attempting to form her ideal society. It's very possible that she does indeed want to remove the borders between the lighteyes and darkeyes and scrap the Nahn and Dahn system, despite her personal enjoyment of rank, but it's almost certain that she's doing it (at least in part) to reduce the lighteyes' power and by doing so consolidate power herself. Her ideal society probably doesn't include slaves, but when she frees every Alethi slave, she will completely break the already-crippled economic power of the highprinces, forcing them to be reliant on her and the Radiants basically indefinitely. (We've seen that exact thing repeatedly occur in history, in fact, with the most notable examples following the English blockade of the transatlantic slave trade and the Third Servile War [the one with Spartacus].) And the fears the other monarchs have about being consumed by the Alethi are likely as well-founded as they appear, particularly with their ever-more-certain reliance on the Radiants. In short, it seems extremely likely that Jasnah is gathering power, weakening the establishment, and setting herself up to have near-absolute control of Alethkar (and Roshar as a whole if she can), all so she can have the ability to implement her ideology. She isn't a traitor who'll dramatically turn to Odium, she isn't a heartless monster without affection for her friends or family, and she probably isn't going to go full genocidal maniac (at least on humans) -- but she is going to do her best to shape the world as she sees fit. Whether she's a visionary or a villain depends entirely on whether or not you agree with her axioms, which for now we can only guess at, and if she does get a Shard...well, expect her to put the Catacendre to shame. Even remaking humanity from the ground up wouldn't be beyond her power then, and who knows what kind of "balance patch" she would apply.
  6. Hey guys, so I'm not sure if this is the kind of content you want to see, but I thought it would be fun! You see, I'm not smart enough to contribute to the amazing fan theories, so this is my contribution (; Anyways, so if you're not familiar with the Myer Briggs Type Indicator, it's basically a set of 16 personality types that everyone falls under. (take the test, it's fun) I decided I would try to assign these traits to the Stormlight characters as best I could. If you are familiar (or lowkey obsessed) with MBTI, I hope you can relate with this! Here goes: Kaladin - ISFJ, The Defender. First off, I know the cover image for ISFJ is a smiling, kind woman and that is the exact opposite image that we associate with our boy Kal. But, to quote the article, "Though sensitive, Defenders have excellent analytical abilities; though reserved, they have well-developed people skills and robust social relationships; and though they are generally a conservative type, Defenders are often receptive to change and new ideas." That seems pretty accurate. To break down the different letters, the I stands for Introverted vs Extroverted. We can all agree that Kal is Introverted. S stands for Sensory or obServant vs intuitive. I think as a surgeon, Kal is pretty Sensory. F stands for Feeling vs Thinking, meaning he processes most of his information through emotion. I'd say Kal is a pretty hotheaded guy who doesn't really think before he acts. J means Judging over Perceiving. He is logical and judges situations without the bias of perception. Shallan - ISFP, The Adventurer. I think this is a perfect match. At first I was tempted to say INTP, the Logician, but I think Shallan is more SF than NT. As an artist, she is very Sensory, and as Shallan, she is more of a Feeling person than a Thinking person. She uses the Thinking side of her personality a lot, but her emotions have so much control over her and so much say in her decision-making. As the article says, "Adventurers enjoy upsetting traditional expectations with experiments in beauty and behavior – chances are, they’ve expressed more than once the phrase 'Don’t box me in!'" Shallan most definitely hates being boxed in and trapped, due to her childhood experiences. Another spot-on quote says, "When faced with criticism, it can be a challenge for people with this type to step away from the moment long enough to not get caught up in the heat of the moment." Passionate insult battles, anyone? Adolin - ESFJ, The Consul. I find it hilarious that Adolin and Kaladin are almost identical in personality type, with only the E/I switched. Adolin is the Consul, most definitely. The article says that "Discussing scientific theories or debating European politics isn’t likely to capture Consuls’ interest for too long. Consuls are more concerned with fashion and their appearance, their social status and the standings of other people." That rings a bell to me. We can see that Adolin is a Feeling character rather than a Thinking character. However, he is a Judging character, because he has the innate ability to see people without bias. (Amaram, Sadeas, Kaladin, his dad) Renarin - ISTJ, The Logistician. Honestly, I don't really know Renarin's character too well, so this is a ballpark guess. I am positive that Renarin is Introverted, and I am not sure about the Sensory, but it seems right to me. He is very practical, so I can see him being Sensory. He is definitely a Thinking character, but we don't really know if he's Judging or Perceiving. For now, however, I think Judging is a good guess. Dalinar - ENFJ, The Protagonist. Dalinar is a natural born leader and is amazing at handling people. These traits put him as the Protagonist. "Protagonists radiate authenticity, concern and altruism, unafraid to stand up and speak when they feel something needs to be said... Protagonists easily see people’s motivations and seemingly disconnected events, and are able to bring these ideas together and communicate them as a common goal with an eloquence that is nothing short of mesmerizing." Honestly, the accuracy of this is astounding and a bit creepy. I think Dalinar is the Protagonist poster child. Also, this little quote here, "The interest Protagonists have in others is genuine, almost to a fault – when they believe in someone, they can become too involved in the other person’s problems, and place too much trust in them." Does that sound like a certain Sadeas vs Dalinar situation to you? Bonus note - because parents tend to pass on portions of their personality traits to their kids, we can guess that Shshshsh, Dalinar's mystery wife, is IST-. We can guess that she's IST because Renarin got the I and the T from somewhere and both Adolin and Renarin have an S that didn't come from Dalinar. We don't really know the J/P, because it seems Dalinar passed the J to both Adolin and Renarin. She could be either. Jasnah - ENTJ, The Commander. Jasnah is purely the Commander. The only thing that might be up for debate is the E vs the I, but I think she is more Extroverted than Introverted. She is definitely a Thinking and Judging type, because of her scholarly nature. I think she is iNtuitive over Sensory, but I think we might not know her well enough to discern that. For now, however, I'm sticking with ENTJ. The funny thing is, Shallan is the exact opposite of her, being ISFP, yet the way they interact with others is strikingly similar. Navani - INTP, The Logician. The tagline for the Logician is "Innovative inventors with an unquenchable thirst for knowledge." To me, this describes Navani perfectly. She is the amazingly smart scientist, the adorable nerd and the creative inventor. Navani is an introverted type, but she is so strong around people that we only ever see that side of her around Dalinar. She is an NT, like Jasnah, but she processes information through Perception rather than Judging. This sounds surprising since she is a scientist, but she is a creative and an inventor rather than a scholar. Bonus note - with the info that we have about Jasnah and Navani, we can guess that Gavilar was an E--J. Knowing the little that we know about Gavilar, we can assume he is a Protagonist, like Dalinar. Hoid as Wit - ENTP, the Debater. Hoid is honestly so hard to figure out. This is not my most confident guess, so if you have a better guess please let me know! (Keep in mind we're talking about Hoid as Wit) Wit is definitely Extroverted, moving through the crowds with ease and making fun of talking to people with confidence. "Debaters don’t [play devil's advocate] because they are trying to achieve some deeper purpose or strategic goal, but for the simple reason that it’s fun. No one loves the process of mental sparring more than Debaters, as it gives them a chance to exercise their effortlessly quick wit, broad accumulated knowledge base, and capacity for connecting disparate ideas to prove their points." This sounds like Wit to me. His iNtuitiveness allows him to create beautiful stories that apply to other people's specific situations, while his Perception allows him to poke fun at others with scary accuracy. Because he is a Thinking type, he is analytical and has a pretty good reign on his emotions. Bonus! Syl - ENFP, The Campaigner - Syl is ENFP all the way. She's got the childlike wonder and Perception and the iNtuitiveness that guides her decisions as honorspren in what Feels wrong and right. She is almost the opposite of Kaladin, yet their ideals are very similar. I believe this is what attracted her to Kaladin. Pattern - INTP, The Logician. Pattern, our adorable, miniscule scholar! He is the same Personality type as Navani, INTP. We see his Perception in how he views the world, and his iNtuitiveness and Thought through how he learns and applies those worldviews. He is similar to Shallan, but she is an SF and he is an NT. She an artist in her core, but she loves scholarship, and that is what drew Pattern to her. That's it for now! I hope it was understandable to those who have no clue what the MBTI types are :? I tried to do as many characters as I could, but if you want me to expand on this one let me know what characters to do! Also, if you would like to suggest a change in one I did, feel free-- I'd love to hear your opinions on this! Also, if you have any suggestions for Wit's personality that would be awesome (; Let me know your personality type! I'm INFP, and I'd love to chat with y'all about it. Here's the website where I got all my info, and be sure to take the test! (It's free, fun, and it will tell you things about yourself that are creepily accurate) I may do one for Mistborn! If you would like that, let me know. That's all, Catie
  7. So I was listening to the Cosmere Conversations podcast and they apparently heard from another fan who heard from Dan at a con (take with a grain of salt for the number of telephone steps) that on top of working on his own main project he is helping out on a Lopen novella (which I assume is King Lopen the First) but also on a Jasnah novella. I find this super interesting. Really curious about both plot and title. I think just calling it Elsecaller could work and fits the theme of Lift’s novella’s title (while also kinda fitting the theme of Rock’s and Rysn’s, not Lopen’s however but he is the Lopen so that makes sense). As for plot I think it could be the whole journey through Shadesmar after escaping the assassination (including that one scene Brandon already released) all the way up until she meets with Wit.
  8. Wit and Jasnah are discussing warfare that will soon become obsolete when he says: A few pages later, Raboniel describes the outcome of combining Anti-Light with its positive as: We know that a compressed reaction will cause an explosion, seen earlier in the tower laboratories. Now that Navani’s journal has been sent to Kholinar for study, will we see a frightening new method of warfare by the Fused? This seems a bit too much like science-fiction, but it is not impossible in the plot given that we’ve seen flying airships. Thoughts?
  9. Ok so this has been eating at me since my first time through the series. Now finishing up my 4th time through, and I feel like this needs to be addressed sometime soon in the story. Shallan has been lying to Jasnah, constantly, about a great many things even after Jasnah was clear with her that she would accept no more lies from her. Honestly if I'm Jasnah, and I find out Shallan was working with the Ghostbloods, I would want her out of the Tower, and I don't see any reasonable way around that. Shallan has proven she will lie and manipulate whoever she wants to do things "her" way because she things she's the only one who can address any of these problems. Her arrogance is just shocking to me. I absolutely do not see how Shallan is following the First Ideal, not even close. She sacrifices children and other beggers in her "brilliant" plan to infiltrate the Cult of Moments. Does she feel bad about it? Yeah, for about 5 minutes. Does she change her ways based on this realization? Of course not, she then goes on a trip to Lasting Integrity where she lies to every single person continuously, literally every living being she encounters she lies and manipulates for her scheme to help the Ghostbloods, which she has done plenty of already regardless of what lies she tells herself the organization isn't "rewarding" her for doing things they find useless. She's advancing the interests of people who tried to murder her and the person who has given her access to do Everything she has accomplished or gained. Jasnah is extremely intelligent and good and figuring out plots. It seems unlikely in my view that Shallan could continue to hide that she was working with the Ghostbloods from Jasnah, especially since Wit definitely knows she is, and Wit is in a relationship with Jasnah. When she does find out Shallan has been lying and manipulating her and everyone else to continue following the Ghostbloods orders (regardless of the ending of RoW) Jasnah should be furious, and should never trust her again.. She has proven she is not trustworthy, period. No rational person would look at the lies and manipulations Shallan has performed and say "well maybe they're an honest person now". I'll even grant that at the end of RoW maybe Shallan made some huge breakthrough. Maybe she will go straight to Jasnah and apologize and beg forgiveness. If I was Jasnah I would thank her for the apology then banish her immediately from Alethkar and the Tower and tell her she's unwelcome in her lands or those of Dalinar. If I was Navani and I found out Shallan was working with the people who tried (and very nearly did) murder my daughter, I would want her executed.
  10. Renarin's Special Interest - rated General, 1700 words - please check it out on ao3 and give me a kudos if you liked it! Note mild Rhythm of War spoilers! At the top of a large hill overlooking the Coalition armies, in her command tent, Jasnah spread her hand over the pages on her temporary desk, trying to keep her research from flying away. If she had the time or the inclination to take in the view outside the tent, she would see the open, rolling green landscape of Emul. Wit had assured her it was quite the panorama. She said she’d take him at his word. The wind was a menace, sneaking in through openings near the ground and at the entrances, with enough power to necessitate paperweights on almost every sheet of paper on her desk. She’d wasted enough time turning whatever she could find to stone so she could reference as many sources as possible. She copied passages furiously, trying to catch up on her study of battle formations before the next meeting. She didn't want to embarrass herself in front of the generals…again. A gust of wind threatened to flip the pages of the book she was reading. “If you’re going to just sit there anyway, could you hold down this page for me so I can read it without the wind interrupting me every ten seconds?” Renarin stood and pulled his chair forward, then held the page as she directed. "Did you know the listeners don't just have Rhythms for their emotions?” he asked. “They have songs too." Jasnah ignored him and kept working. As annoying as it was to have Renarin blathering on about whatever topic was fascinating him at the moment, it was also a comfort. He still trusted her enough to be near her. His presence was a precious gift, one she didn’t deserve, but she would accept it gladly--even if it did interrupt her focus at times. “They have songs that tell grand mythologies and lore, just like us, but they also have songs for more mundane things.” Renarin tapped a finger on the page. “They have a song for making paper. That’s interesting, right?” “Mmm hmm,” Jasnah hummed noncommittally, trying to stay focused. “It can’t decide if it would be masculine or feminine to sing a song of how to do something. It seems like an excellent method of memorization that doesn’t involve writing,” he went on. “Then again, creating a song like that would be an art, I suppose. There doesn’t seem to be a strong argument one way or another.” Her cousin had always been highly motivated to follow masculine practices, though sometimes he had trouble telling the difference on his own. His statement almost sounded like he was asking her opinion, though Jasnah knew that if that were his purpose, he would have asked her directly. Nevertheless, she decided to offer it. “It would be a masculine thing to do, I believe,” she said absently. “The composing would be feminine, but the performance, for the purpose of everyday tasks, would be masculine.” “Oh.” Renarin scratched his chin. Lately, his face seemed to have more stubble every day. “That’s good.” “Mmm hmm,” she murmured, focusing back on her work. She gestured to Renarin to lift his fingers and she flipped the pages of her reference book, skipping small-formation tactics. She would need to start with the bigger picture. She could work her way down to the minutiae later. She found the page she was looking for. “Here, please, Cousin,” she said, and he obliged her. Now, there seemed to be at least six distinct philosophies regarding larger battle tactics... “The relationship that the listeners have with the Stormfather is complex,” Renarin continued. “The Stormfather is a god to them, but they have a severed relationship. They still respect him though. Do you know what they call the Stormfather?” He didn’t wait for her to answer. “The Rider of the Storm. They know Highstorms are incredibly dangerous, and yet they still go out into them to change forms. Some listeners bring a large shield, but that just seems unwieldy, in those winds. I wonder how often they change forms.” “Yes, fascinating,” Jasnah intoned. “It seems brave.” “Mmm hmm.” There was a long pause. Finally, some silence. The entrance to the tent flapped angrily, and a cold breeze blew in. Jasnah sucked up some Stormlight for warmth rather than stand to get a cloak. She noticed Renarin do the same, and a warmth bloomed in her chest. Unfortunately, the happiness she felt at their Radiant kinship was marred by her guilt from attempting to kill him. What’s done is done, she thought. What matters is that I chose correctly. I hope. She still wasn’t sure what to make of his corrupted spren or his powers, but Navani was looking into it. Jasnah had enough on her plate. “Did you know that listeners hear the same beat of the Rhythms of Roshar, no matter where they are?” Renarin asked. “That’s why it seemed like they could communicate with each other across large distances. They were attuning the same Rhythms.” “Yes,” Jasnah said absently, and scribbled rhythm instead of reconnaissance. She sighed, crossing the word through top and bottom and moving on. No time to start a new page. “It connects them on a fundamental level. Imagine being apart from someone but knowing you were still attuning the exact same Rhythms. I think it would be great to learn them,” he droned on. “Besides, it’s nice to know exactly what someone is feeling without having to ask.” He started to list the different Rhythms he knew. “Determination, Pain, Longing, Amusement…” Jasnah gritted her teeth. When Renarin had been obsessed with wines, it had been easy to shut out the information. But this…this was actually fascinating, and potentially useful for the fight. Where was he getting this information? As if to provide her an opening, Renarin finished his list. “My favourite Rhythm is Peace.” Jasnah put down her pen and crossed her arms. “You’ve been practicing?” she asked with a hint of amusement. Renarin stammered. “Well, I mean…I’m not good at it,” he said. She pulled out a blank piece of paper and started to jot some quick notes on Renarin’s monologue. “Who is teaching you this?” she asked. “Rlain.” “Ah, of course. The listener spy.” That was a logical connection. Renarin had been a member of Bridge Four, and still spent a lot of time with them. With the men, or with Rlain? She tapped her page. She wanted to explore this further. “Do you trust the information you are getting from him, despite the fact that he was a spy for years?” Renarin looked down and pulled out his fidgeting box. “Yes.” “And what reasons do you have to trust him?” “He’s Bridge Four. He left the listeners and gave us crucial information we needed for the battle at Narak. He’s stayed with Bridge Four ever since, even though his people all died. He had no reason to stay with us, but he did because it was right. He’s shared critical information with me and Aunt Navani. He’s helping us grow crops at Urithiru.” He put away his box and looked up at Jasnah’s face. “He wants to help. He’s a good man.” Jasnah raised an eyebrow, but nodded. Interesting. “And he’s teaching you songs?” Renarin looked down at his hands. “Ah. Well, Rhythms. But yeah.” She reviewed her thoughts, reading below the lines, so to speak. He likes that he can tell what Rlain is feeling. He’s been memorizing the Rhythms, and every fact he can get about listeners. He thinks they’re brave when they change forms. He wonders how often they do it. He wants to learn Rlain's songs, as long as it’s masculine. Jasnah tilted her head, the hint of a smile threatening her cheek. “Renarin, what is your favourite fact about listeners?” His expression perked up and he sat up straighter. “Did you know that their babies have orange-pink carapace? It darkens to red as they get older.” Jasnah raised both eyebrows, and her smile made good on its threat. I never thought I would see this day! “Are you planning on raising little listener babies with Rlain, dear Cousin?” Renarin’s eyes went wide, and his face puckered as if he was trying to pull his lips into his closed mouth. “...What?” “Renarin, I have been acquainted with you long enough to know that the subjects of your special interests are always related to the people you care about. You wanted to please your brother, so you learned everything about horses, even though you didn’t ride. You love your mother, so you learned about Riran religious traditions, culture, and language. You learned about wine for the sake of your father’s love. And now, dear Cousin, I find you obsessed with listener culture and biology. I think it means you care for this Rlain.” Her speculation was rewarded with a series of facial expressions that indicated 1) he had not been aware of the themes of his obsessions, 2) he was unable to rebut her argument, and 3) he was now aware of certain feelings he had towards this listener. Finally, he met her eyes, his expression determined. He stood slowly. “I–Thank you,” he said, looking towards the door flap. “I need to go think for a while.” He left abruptly without asking the permission of his Queen, but Jasnah allowed him this one indiscretion. After all, the poor boy wouldn’t be able to be indiscreet again until after he returned to Urithiru. Storms alight, was that wordplay? she thought, affronted at herself. I have spent too much time around Shallan. She narrowed her eyes. Or is this Wit’s fault? Yes, easier and more convenient to blame him. Shaking her head with a smile, she reached down and picked up a stick that had blown in. She reached into the Cognitive Realm in her mind. “I am a stick,” it said. “You are a paperweight, and you will be happy about it,” she retorted. She opened her eyes in the Physical Realm, placed it on her book, and got back to work.
  11. Pen Pals (link to ao3) Rated Teen, 700 words. Created for Cosmere Bingo for the prompt pen pals. Summary: Jasnah reconnects by spanreed with her good friend and fellow Veristitalian, Ethid. Jasnah discovers a little truth about herself, and why she has been reluctant to graduate her ward. In the fic, this is a portrait of Shallan by Jasnah:
  12. I just wanted to toot my own horn and say that during the scene when Shallan and Jasnah were on the boat, and Shallan sees Jasnah get stabbed, I had a feeling that Jasnah was not actually dead. My husband read the books before me, and tried to tell me that she really was dead, but I just didn't believe it. Wanted more people to know that I was right! When she came back in later on, I cheered for being right.
  13. Hello everyone, It has come to my attention that my opinion that Jasnah and Wit are perfect for each other is very... Unpopular. So, if there is anyone out there like me who actually ships the two, please, let me know, so I am not alone in my belief. Hopefully I am not the only person who has read the Stormlight Archive who ships them. (Please don't murder me for supporting the relationship, Jasnahoid dislikers.)
  14. From the album: General SA Art

    Finally drew this after so many years! Probably still my fav Jasnah/Hoid scene (●'◡'●)ノ❤
  15. From the album: Bored Doodles

    As an honorary Elsecaller, I thought I’d try to draw the Elsecaller glyph. I’m just going to say how glad I am to not be a woman on Roshar. Those things are storming hard to draw. And to memorize them no less.
  16. I'm in the "can't decide" camp myself. It's a complicated issue.
  17. Chaos

    Shardcast: Jasnah

    There's still so many Stormlight topics left to do (and such little time) but it's time to do a deep dive about Jasnah! We delve into her philosophy and a certain lesson, her "lunacy," and what happened with her in Rhythm of War! This episode we have Eric (Chaos), Alyx (Feather), Ian (Weiry), Jessie (Lady Lameness), Evgeni (Argent), and Shannon (Grey). Brandon's Rhythm of War Chapter 17 Annotation on Jasnah's sexuality: https://www.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/jmwe4r/last_weeks_annotation/ Today's amazing thumbnail is by Grant Hansen: https://www.instagram.com/p/BTXpUsJlBpB/ 00:00 Introductions and Show & Tell 06:46:29 Jasnah 13:27 Personality, Philosophy, and the Lesson 1:05:50 "Lunacy" 1:32:17 Jasnah and Hoid; Jasnah's Sexuality 2:23:11 Wrapping up 2:25:54 Who's That Cosmere Character If you like our content, support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/17thshard For discussion, theories, games, and news, come to https://www.17thshard.com Come talk with us and the community on the 17th Shard Discord: https://discord.gg/17thshard Want to learn more about the cosmere and more? The Coppermind Wiki is where it's at: https://coppermind.net Read all Words of Brandon on Arcanum: https://wob.coppermind.net Subscribe to Shardcast: http://feeds.soundcloud.com/users/soundcloud:users:102123174/sounds.rss Send your Who's That Cosmere Characters to [email protected]
  18. I know this is probably gonna be controversial, and a lotta people probably are gonna disagree with me, and that's fine. Does anyone else kinda not like how Jasnah is handled? I don't really hate her or anything it's just, the way Brandon writes her just feels sorta off and not very compelling. To me anyway. Specifically, it feels like she's sorta too perfect, especially in a series where being a flawed person striving to do better is such a big thing. Never at any point does Jasnah ever really fail at anything, and the few times she sorta does, nothing really becomes of it. She, despite being a woman of extreme privilege uproots the ancient Alethi slave tradition, and completely ends Dark Eyes oppression (which none of the characters this ACTUALLY involves even really comment on or are a part of), because she's just so cool and epic and badass because she just is. There's no real backlash to this, she steals this moment away from characters that actually care about this. She's just this perfect queen. And like, every time someone in world legitimately opposes her, they are made out to be an absolute buffoon. Look at the Alethi lord in RoW. That entire sequence was frankly just rediculous. Navani and Kaladin and Shallan are facing extremely dangerous situations, and making mistakes that have lasting consiquences because they are human beings, while Jasnah is fighting a storming caricature of the patriarchy. Seriously? A lot of the time she doesn't feel like an actual human being, to the point where the few scenes Brandon tries to make her seem vulnerable just feel fake, at least to me. Am I missing something? Am I supposed to see her in a different light? All the other characters have their ideals and attitudes radically challenged and are forced to adapt and overcome things. Jasnah, despite having a pretty rediculous and arguably un-radiant moral code just succeeds at everything. I'd love to be convinced otherwise, it's just, it's been really bothering me on my second reread of the series
  19. Jasnah Kholin is a very intelligent, very driven, and very practical person. When, and yes I believe that for someone like her it is only a matter of when, she discovers Hemalurgy, will she be okay with using it to accomplish her own ends? To me, I would think 'yes', but what do you think?
  20. Spoilers for Rhythm of War and also for the entire Cosmere, literally all of it, if you ain't caught up then pretend this post is Aimia and sail right the hell away plzkthx I just posted this as a comment on Reddit. Reposting here as its own thread in case its of interest to y'all :-) This post was inspired by the recent episode of Shardcast. What a great podcast. Absolutely love it. The most recent episode is about Jasnah, in particular her asexuality as it related to her having a sexual relationship with Hoid in Rhythm of War. On the surface, this relationship is BOGGLING. I totally agree. And one interpretation of this is that Brandon Sanderson has done some very bad writing around an asexual character. This sure is possible. However, I don't think that is the case here. I think that Jasnah/Hoid is meant to be boggling. We are supposed to say to ourselves this does not make sense! And then we are supposed to ask, well, under what circumstances could this make sense? I tried to do this, and I think I have an interesting answer. We are told that Jasnah is not interested in sex for pleasure, and that she does not reciprocate Hoid's interest in a romantic relationship with her. How can she be in this sexual relationship if not for sexual pleasure and not for romance? I think the Shardcasters are forgetting that there can be other reasons for a relationship, particularly a cis/het sexual relationship in an (essentially) medieval context. I can think of two possible reasons. The first reason is for the sharing of power through a union, such as marriage. This doesn't seem likely here. What power could a Queen gain from union with a Wit? This would be my conclusion if they had proclaimed a union publicly but not acted on it privately. They are doing the exact opposite. So this doesn't seem likely at all. As a result, I think it's the second reason: procreation. They are having sex in order to produce a child. This is the only reason that I can think of for a person who is not interested in sex in general, not interested in romance with this person in specific, and has nothing to gain from the relationship being public, to engage in a private sexual relationship. Why does Jasnah want to have a baby with Hoid? Merciful Domi but idk. Maybe she wants to give Hoid something to live for (we WoT fans call this "the Veins of Gold"). Or maybe the answer is "magic stuff." Maybe she wants her child to have Connection to a Dawnshard. Maybe she wants her child to be a Mistborn - Hoid's a Lerasium Mistborn so his child will probably be full Mistborn too. Maybe she wants her child to be a Lightweaver apart from the Radiant Surges. Maybe she wants her child to have Connection to Yolen. Or, hell, maybe she just wants to raise a child alone, and in the incorrigibly patriarchal Alethi society, the only way to do this is to hook up with the literally least dependable man in the Cosmere. I don't know Jasnah's reasons - all I know is, this is Jasnah, and so she has 'em. This brings up one more question: if procreation is Jasnah's reason for their sexual relationship, is it also Hoid's? Hoid's behavior might be a clue. His attempts to sexually interest an asexual person suggest that he's unaware of her asexuality; doesn't understand it; or is deliberately ignoring it. If someone agrees to have a sexual relationship with an asexual person for purposes entirely apart from pleasure or romance, maybe their subsequent attempts to interest the asexual person in sexual pleasure result from their guilt at experiencing pleasure in the sexual act which their partner does not. In other words, Hoid is making misguided attempts to resolve a dissonance. This... isn't great. This seems like how an alien would think human empathy works. But Hoid could be that alien just as easily as Brandon. Alternatively, Hoid is just an asshole. This is entirely within the realm of possibility, because, y'know, Hoid. But I don't think this is likely. First, Hoid is not a dumb person. Moreover, he seems to be quite empathetic when he wants to be - and his statements about wanting a romantic relationship with Jasnah suggest that this is a person for whom he'd be empathetic. But most importantly, Jasnah is kind of the freaking patron saint of telling people how it is. If she told Hoid she was ace, I can't imagine she wouldn't explain to him exactly what that means to her & set boundaries clearly and effectively. As a result, I think the most likely answer is that Hoid is unaware of Jasnah's asexuality. This would would imply that Jasnah is pretending to be interested in sex - or at least, allowing him to assume that she is and not correcting him - in order to entice him into a sexual relationship. This would imply that it is her desire to get pregnant - but not his. It wouldn't surprise me if Jasnah has learned a way for cognitive shadows to be involved in conceiving children that is unknown to Hoid. Further, I bet she learned this as a result of things that her father Gavilor Kholin did with the Sons of Honor in an attempt to create 'Fused Heralds' - magical experiments that resulted both in Jasnah's childhood 'lunacy,' and later, Shallan's identity complexities. See https://old.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/qyctcp/shardcast_jasnah/hlouize/?context=3. But that's theories upon theories. But that's why I love the Stormlight Archive In a greatshell: I think that Jasnah has allowed Hoid to believe their sexual relationship is one of pleasure/romance purely in order to concienve a child with him. Further, I think Hoid believes himself incapable of getting someone pregnant - and as a result is going to be mad surprised when Jasnah hands him the sonogram.
  21. We've all had one moment or another, where Jasnah's reasoning REALLY got under our skin, that is the initial purpose of her character. What moments did you wish you were there for just so could smack some sense into sense into her.
  22. Hi all, a quick question for everyone. As we know, Hoid and Jasnah are now romantically involved. I'm not going to lie––I was definitely a bit surprised here. My personal theories had been that Hoid was carrying a torch for someone from his past and that Jasnah didn't want a romantic interest, but here we are. I would usually never complain about a well-balanced intellectual relationship between some of the most beloved characters in the series, but I'm a bit concerned for these two. First of all, Hoid and Jasnah are both incredibly ambitious individuals. They both have their own agendas and, while they may line up at the moment, I'm not sure how much longer that will last. We know Hoid has to have some sort of end goal, but is it even something that we would consider "good" and not "evil"? We can't tell. He's been working to achieve something for thousands of years, so I think it's unlikely that he would stop for a single romantic interest, unless his relationship with Jasnah develops pretty seriously over the course of the series. Also, Jasnah has a very strong set of convictions and morals. She probably wouldn't change her entire mindset around just to accommodate any sort of emotional intimacy with Hoid, even if she enjoys it. In my opinion, while they both like being in a romantic relationship, they're both using each other for something. Hoid requires a social standing and access to resources (and an incentive not to kill him, even when he's being... himself), which Jasnah can provide him. Jasnah, on the other hand, is a scholar at heart. She wants knowledge about the Cosmere and its workings, and who better to aid her than the worldhopping, quick-witted menace himself? Another point of concern for me stems from the language that they use. Hoid tells Jasnah that he loves her for her paranoia, out of all of her qualities. I thought this was a little bit suspicious. It definitely doesn't seem romantic; if anything, it seems like he's seeking protection from something. Jasnah's paranoia could be keeping them both alive, sure, but a constant state of stress is not something that someone wishes on a partner. This seems especially unbalanced when we take into account the fact that his presence seems to put Jasnah at ease. At the very least, they seem to have some... minor communication issues. A third thing could be Jasnah's asexuality. Hoid doesn't seem to be completely considerate of that, hoping that his kisses and touch can spark something in her, when that's just not how it works. Jasnah does participate in physical intimacy for his pleasure, but I still think he should be more understanding about her preferences. To be honest, I'm kind of rooting for them. Hoid and Jasnah would make an unstoppable power couple, and I genuinely believe that they like one another and that they could actually fall in love. They just need to have a serious talk about what they want from each other, how far their relationship will go (unofficial lovers? marriage? plenty of possibilities), and their personal plans for both the near and far future. And if they decide that they can't speak about those things, well... that kind of speaks for itself. For future Stormlight books, I would love to see one's reaction when the other is in serious danger (it might be a bit difficult to find a circumstance that could kill Hoid, but Nightblood's on Roshar, so anything is possible). With any strong relationship––especially romantic ones––a reaction in that situation says a lot about the personalities of and dynamic between the two characters. And, I know between now and the next Stormlight book, I'm definitely going to be looking through everything Cosmere with a fine-toothed comb for mentions of Hoid and his end goals. Hoid and Jasnah are both already so interesting as individuals, so there's obviously a lot to analyze when considering them together. Thoughts? Opinions? P.S. I almost considered doing an astrology-esque analysis of Radiant order compatibility. Are a Lightweaver and an Elsecaller as meant to be as an Aries and a Libra? Or are they completely doomed, like a Taurus and a Leo? (I'm sorry if these relate to your life in any way––just picked the first ones off of Google. ) If anyone has actually done a zodiac-style analysis of the Radiants, I would love to see it. If not... well then. I guess I have a new project on my hands?
  23. Hello all, I had a thought while reviewing how Jasnah does soulcasting in WoK, and couldn't find any references to this specifically, so thought I'd share it. When Jasnah pretends to use her soulcaster to hide her use of Transformation, the level of dedication to the subterfuge is impressive. First, she ensures that the gemstones crack, though there isn't any reference that I'm aware of that indicates that drawing stormlight from a gemstone can crack it. That likely means simultaneous Transformation...? Also, the visual effect might be something she's doing, as well. Second, she asks for the correct gemstone to use on blood, though Transormation does not seem to be limited by the gemstone/essence affinity. I don't think anyone could have figured out her trickery if she hadn't slipped and soulcast the bread and jam.
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