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I was listening to the Shardcast on the history of Sel (https://www.17thshard.com/news/shardcast/shardcast-history-and-cultures-of-sel-r539/) and they mentioned how the more modern group of people who would become known as the Elantrians first came upon the city already built and empty. Someone built Elantris and something happened to cause it to be devoid of people. There was speculation of a catastrophe or something wiping everybody out ... but what if they just left? We know of a worldhopping civilization that migrates in mass. They are on Roshar during the events of Stormlight Archive and call themselves the Iriali. Their nation on Roshar is called Iri. In Mistborn Secret History we meet a group of worldhopping Elantrians that call themselves the Ire. I don't think these two groups are the same, but I think this is a big hint that one of the previous planets the Iriali were on was Sel and they left in mass from Elantris which is why it was found fully built, but empty. They probably left via the shardpool in the mountains nearby. https://coppermind.net/wiki/Elantris_(city)#Discovery https://coppermind.net/wiki/Iri
I have always been interested in Iri and Rira since I began to read the Stormlight novels. Does anyone have thoughts or theories about their origins outside of Roshar? I also wonder if we will get some POV chapters in the fourth book dealing with their alliance with Odium. I know Odium explicitly told Mr. T that his city will be the only human enclave that he spares. I wonder whether the Irali have an agreement with Odium that will allow them to migrate to another world. Also, it seems like Iri is the most powerful human kingdom to align itself with Odium. I hope they eventually join the oathpact. With all the shards and plate Alethkar has, Dalinar could easily throw them some shards to pay them back for the plate his first wife stole. Any thoughts?
Atxk posted a topic in Cosmere DiscussionTheory: Cusicesh is a spren of the Iriali god, the One I was inspired while reading this thread from a little while ago: (I also used some of the quotes/WoBs found in here, so credit goes to you guys) CONTEXT FOR THE LONG TRAIL: (you can skip if you already know abt the Long Trail, or just read for a refresher) The Iriali generally follow the religion of the One (their god... a shard? maybe... who knows?). This religion teaches that the Iri are on an interplanetary journey called The Long Trail, going over 7 different planets. Ages ago, the One decided to split itself up into different lives so that it could experience life. These people, the Iriali, are currently on the 4th planet of the journey, Roshar. When they get to the 7th planet, they will all "gather together" and become One again, new and improved with all the experiences/lives the Iriali have lead, completing the Long Trail. Every Irian is part of the One... SO ONTO THE THEORY: Descrition from Axies' interlude in WoK ~Cusicesh the Protector is described as being made up of many different faces flashing through in quick succession and Axies said that it was worshiped in by some in Kasitor... As we know, spren are living ideas, eg. a firespren is people's idea of fire that has gained form in the Cognitive Realm (and shows partially in the Physical). So what idea/s formed Cusicesh? Or in other words, what is Cusicesh the spren of? Let's look at the people who would have shaped it. (Spren's genders have been influenced by human vs singer perception, so we know that the people thinking around the spren, and their social concepts have effect on spren) Cusicesh appears in the city, Kasitor, which is Iri's second largest city. Cusicesh is considered "a part of the city" so it must have been there for a long time, under influence from many Iriali's perceptions over a long time. As a spren in Kasitor, Cusicesh has to have been influenced by the Iriali. So how does Cusicesh fit into Iriali culture??? As the One!* (*Possibly as the One! ...it makes sense to me, here's why...) So the first thing that connects Cusicesh to the One is the display of faces. The One is all the Iriali people, as Ym said to the urchin, "you and I are One". The One is genderless. Cusicesh's display includes many different people, some appear male and some appear female. All of the faces are human. So all different humans, all genders, are being combined into one form. Which is exactly the same as how all of the Iriali are meant to become One on the 7th planet, combining into One form. One of the major aspects of Cusicesh' demonstration is people feeling drained by it. Axies said it felt like "something had been leeched from him". Maybe Cusicesh is draining away the observers' experiences/investiture, to replicate how One is meant to take all of the Iriali experiences onto itself. (Yes this isn't the 7th planet yet, but Cusicesh isn't literally the One, just people's perceptions of the One. And the final "gathering" is literally the purpose of the Long Trail/their lives so it makes sense this important aspect would be a part of the One's spren) Cusicesh is also worshipped by some Iri. This could tentatively be an indication that Cusicesh was connected 'the One' religion at some point in the past. Or that it at least resonated/s with Iriali culture during their time on Roshar. (Like why would the worldhopping Iriali, some of whom were cosmically aware, worship a spren?) Also in terms of their worship, the pedestals are gold, connecting it further to the golden Iriali people. (Also also, Four pedestals/arms that Cusicesh is leaning on, maybe represent four lands so far that the One can draw experiences from...) To recap, Crusicesh must have been influenced by people because it is a spren. It's location means it has been influenced by the Iriali's perceptions. And from our limited knowledge of Crusicesh, its behaviours seem to fit with the Iriali God, the One. This theory also provides a reason for Brandon to show us Cusicesh, beyond it being the Sibling (which I don't believe), or just being cool. The Iri's perceptions of their god have created Crusicesh or at least influenced it. Honestly, I have no idea if all of this has already been said, or if there are massive holes I just don't have the knowledge to see. But I thought that this seemed plausible enough, or that this might provide something useful... tear it apart! (Or alternatively, help build and correct this theory!) PS: In order for this theory to be really solid, it would be great to find another spren of a god, for example, a spren that emobidied the Passions. (not a god-spren, like because even though he's a sliver of Honor, the Stormfather isn't believed to represent the Almighty, so I don't think he counts as a precedent.) (PPS: some baseless propositions/thoughts (if this theory proves true) Maybe all the faces are people with Iriali blood who have passed on and are going back into the One??? Maybe "eastward", the direction Cusicesh is facing, is where the Iriali homeland is, or where they last came from, or where they're going next???? idk. Cusicesh's "sapience" could come from drawing energy/investiture/cognitive presence from onlookers. The Iri are also probably giving it heaps of cognitive presence/aspect, cos Cusicesh is taking on all their ideas/reverence for their God. Cusicesh's sapience would also allow it to continue spren-ifying the One, if people have stopped heavily associating Crusicesh with the One, because now its view of itself contributes to its identity)
This is an interesting tidbit from Brandon's Chicago signing. We know that the Listeners/Parshendi are native to Roshar, but aren't sure about the other beings on the planet and whether or not they've always been on Roshar. This bit about the Irali appears to be new. So what do we know about them? The Iriali Have Been on Roshar for a Long Time Iri was one of the Silver Kingdoms on Roshar, so it's roots go deep into the history of the planet. They would have witnessed the Heralds themselves and experienced the desolations as a culture. The Iriali Have a Religion that Includes The Long Trail Ym gives us some interesting information about the Iriali people: So, we should not be surprised that the Iriali have not always been on Roshar. It seems that their people have been on three other worlds prior to arriving here, and that they expect to move on to two additional worlds before finally arriving back at oneness in the Seventh Land. I know others on the shard have discussed this story as a possible reference to the shattering of Adonalsium. Something Weird is Going On in Their Biggest City: Rall Elorim Rall Elorim is known as the City of Shadows and is a strange place. Folks here on the shard have speculated that the reference to shadows may mean that this place is where Cognitive Shadows of dead Knights Radiant or spren live. Since this is the largest city in this nation, I'd doubt it's entirely inhabited by Cognitive Shadows. Though, if we assume that the Iri migrated through the Cognitive Realm from Nalthis to Roshar (see bellow), it could be that the city is located in the Cognitive Realm. Kasitor: Home of Cusicesh the Protector An extremely large spren named Cusicesh who, at exactly 7:46am every day, rises out of the water of the bay and creates an illusion of waves around it. A translucent blue color, it measures over 100 feet tall - Axies refers to it as one of the largest spren he's ever seen. With four long arms and a strange face that rapidly shifts through male and female faces, it looks eastward toward the Origin. Those who gather to watch it appear frequently report feeling "drained" after seeing it. Some of the Iriali worship it, placing golden pedestals out to honor it. Questions Raised What other worlds were the Iriali on before? They have metallic, golden hair and paint themselves with colors and patterns. They also have strong chastity laws and discourage public nudity. Some of this sounds reminicent of Nalthis, where bright colors, the muted conservatism of Austre, and "the Royal Locks" are a part of cultures there. Since it seems that Vasher and Denth (if not others) of the Five Scholars travelled to Roshar in the past (and that Vasher is currently on the planet, as is Nightblood), there do seem to be connections here. Since the Expanse of the Densities has been speculated to refer to Nalthis, that Iri is right there on the Physical and Cognitive maps of Roshar, it makes sense that the Iri could have migrated from there. What similarities are there to the migration on Threnody? Are they the cultural ancestors (or decedents) of the Iriali? What is happening with the draining sensation that the people feel in the presence of Cusicesh? Is it a similar happening to a Larkin sucking out stormlight from a surgebinder? Do people on Roshar have innate Investiture that could be drained in this manner? Not anyone can be a vessel of stormlight, so what is it that Cusicesh is doing to them? Also, what is the symbolism of the faces that appear? Why does it appear on such a regular schedule? So other than the Listeners/Parshendi, what other peoples were native to Roshar?