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Found 20 results

  1. Hello folks, I had a question about when Kelsier is committing a felony break and enter at the Ire base. So it's shown to us that at first he does not understand the language being spoken and as he spends time in the base he is slowly able to understand the language (presumably a form of sellish). So my question is: why is Kelsier becoming Connected with Sel at this moment, my current understanding is that it has something to do with the "blue energy" being pumped into the wall he's scaling which I am assuming is some distilled form of the Dor. So Kelsier is absorbing some of the Dor as he climbs the wall thus building his connection enough to understand the language. This is my first time posting in the Q&A forms, sorry if this question has been answered a million times over.
  2. I was listening to the Shardcast on the history of Sel ( and they mentioned how the more modern group of people who would become known as the Elantrians first came upon the city already built and empty. Someone built Elantris and something happened to cause it to be devoid of people. There was speculation of a catastrophe or something wiping everybody out ... but what if they just left? We know of a worldhopping civilization that migrates in mass. They are on Roshar during the events of Stormlight Archive and call themselves the Iriali. Their nation on Roshar is called Iri. In Mistborn Secret History we meet a group of worldhopping Elantrians that call themselves the Ire. I don't think these two groups are the same, but I think this is a big hint that one of the previous planets the Iriali were on was Sel and they left in mass from Elantris which is why it was found fully built, but empty. They probably left via the shardpool in the mountains nearby.
  3. I’ll type out a better theory later but this is the summary: The Set or the group Waxilliums uncle was apart of is actually the IRE or the elantrians from mistborn secret history. The shard Trell is actually Autonomy or the hosts of Autonomy and they were convinced by the elantrians to separate the shard Harmony back into ruin and preservation. The elantrians want Preservations shard so they can revive their own Shards. They used the original agreement between shards to not live on the same world and mix powers, to convince the shard Autonomy or the majority of its splintered power to separate ruin and preservation. Sorry for the messy bad grammar. Please pick this theory apart and maybe read between the lines to find out inbook reasons why what I said could be right.
  4. I always thought the Cognitive Realm was cool. The use of the Platonic idea of the Ideal Realm (separated into two Realms: the Cognitive realm of the mind and the Spiritual realm of the ideal/perfect objects & beings) in fantasy was awesome! I was also very sad that we won't get to see something like a character's own personal pocket dimension. The Cognitive Realm seemed like the perfect candidate for hosting pocket realities: it is the realm of the mind, space is malleable here being shaped by collective belief & perception. I thought that the fortress of the Ire would be as close as it gets Then I realized we have seen this: 1) Stormfather's imagined place, where he took Dalinar, which he was very defensive about explaining saying that "it is no place!" before explaining that he imagined it and explaining the nature of the Cognitive Realm and the objects in it 2) the visions sent by Honor, I didn't realize it was a real (ish?) place, simply imagining it taking place within Dalinar's mind. Then I remembered that: A ) Dalinar shared these "visions" with other people B ) Odium broke into one I imagine it's very Investiture-intensive to create a pocket world, given the characters who've shown the ability to do so. I wonder if any Investiture system we've seen can be used to do this
  5. theory

    I think that Vax is somehow connected to the Ire and is possibly a Shard Vessel. Here is my reasoning: Vax is only mentioned in Elantris and Mistborn Secret History. Both feature Elantrians extensively Vax's name alone doesn't provide much information by itself, but we know that Brandon seems to provide some clues using anagrams (Adonalsium = "a mind, a soul"). What's the anagram of “Vax Ire”? Xavier Now, the name Xavier is an interesting one. I didn't exist before the 16th century and originated with Francis Xavier, who was a missionary in Japan and China. Brandon was an LDS missionary in Korea and Far East cultures were one of the inspirations for Selish magic systems The name Xavier also comes from Basque language and means either “castle” or “new house”. The Ire have a fortress in the Cognitive Realm, which serves as their new home after they left Sel Vax is heavily suggested to be a place, but it's not confirmed (WoB) and I don't think it makes much sense. The Ire probably have fortresses all over Cognitive Realm and that hardly deserves a separate name I believe Vax could be the name of an Ire Shard Vessel. According to this WoB, the Ire expected their orb to work and it was not a test. It is possible then that they have already tried that before and on of the Ire Ascended. We know that there is a Shard not held by original Vessel that isn't Harmony (WoB) and a Shard that's not on a planet that isn't Ambition (WoB). I think they're one and the same and that this Shard is Vax Vax as a Shard also explains Ati's reaction. The first person he sees after he dies is Kelsier and he's a Sliver who Ascended using Ire technology. If we assume he can sense that, it's not a surprise he mistakes Kelsier for Vax Since Vax didn't Invest on any planet, I assume the Ire can somehow tap his powers directly from the Spiritual Realm using their technology. We've seen them accessing Connection and Fortune, so why not Investiture? This mechanism explains why Vax ad Taldain are mentioned alongside each other in Elantris Ars Arcanum. On Taldain, the Investiture comes from the Sun. Vax's Investiture comes directly from Spritual Realm which I believe is the Sun over Cognitive Realm (a more detailed discussion here) Vax could also be the Shard originally meant for the Rithmatist (spoilers): One of the planets in the Selish system is Kii (Aon of Justice) which could be related to Vax's Intent
  6. The Ire and connections to Elantris: what significance does the ire Aon have on aging (and are the jars of Invesitiure? part of it, maybe? and the cord to the back of the building is storing Connection?) and how much? (Ruin says that they have existed for far too long) Do we know if the Ire are wary/ staying away from shadows (the Shadesmar equivalent)? Does the Orb store Connection, but Connection to nothing in particular? Kelsier and the Well of Ascension: Does being in the presence of a perpendicularity (or a bunch of Investiture) "expand your soul"? Spikes: storing them in blood preserves them, does it have to be the Inquisitor's blood? If not, could it work for a Kandra? Identity of clothing: if Kelsier thought of his clothing as having words/ knots in it, and believed it enough, couldn't he take notes? Hoid: Shards (at least Preservation) refer to him as Cephandrius, is that what he went by when he met them (probably a RAFO for DragonSteel)? Do we have a WoB if Hoid is using "Stick" as an oar? How were the Pits of Hathsin "easier to access" (paraphrasing) as a perpendicularity (how would he have escaped)? Do we know if Hoid has the equivalent of a gemstone that doesn't leak Investiture (like from Shadesmar near Roshar)? Does Hoid know Sazed (he references a tall, bald, and wears lots of earings before he makes for the Well)? Do we know if the bandages that Kelsier saw him (percieving himself as) wearing are reminicient of his time on Sel? Kelsier: Anyone else notice how he takes advantage of Preservation? Mare's flower picture was placed by Preservation/ actions of Preservation, right? Ruin: He claims not to be Evil, but he intends to destroy everything on Scadrial. Ati might not be Evil, but Ruin is. Shadesmar: do we know what the "strange formations of rock, like glassy sculptures" are?
  7. - Words of Radiance, Location 1272, Kindle Is this the same fortress that the Ire are set up in? It doesn't match Kelsier's description of the fortress, but then again it is existing mostly in the Cognitive realm, not the Physical one, in Secret History. But Kelsier states that he can tell the bricks came from somewhere else... If it is the same Fortress, it did didn't originate on Roshar, though. The plants on Roshar are more than just "green," they're hard and crusty and mobile. And still... this is the second fortress in the middle of a giant body of water that we've come across. And what happened to the fortress on Roshar if it is no longer there in Dalinar's time? I think the fortress might represent a way to travel between worlds that doesn't involve Shardpools. Afterall, I don't think the Ire got to Scadrial via either of the pools there. And if the fortress is an alternative means of transportation (or is located on one), it would explain why the 17th Shard is looking for Hoid in the Purelake. --- So my theory is this... the fortress originated on Sel and it is Elantrian architecture. It was built in the middle of a lake or ocean (possibly Lake Alonoe) and the Ire somehow uses it to travel between Shardworlds while they search for a Shard to bring back to Sel. They came to Scadrial first to try to capture Preservation after Leras was killed. They set the fortress down in a giant ocean. The water helps the bricks of the fortress hold on to their "identity" in the cognitive realm. After the Ire failed to capture Preservation, they moved to Roshar to try to capture Honor after Tanavast was killed. Unfortunately, Honor was splintered by Odium in the Desolation despite the Ire trying to stop that from happening (Dalinar's vision). Having failed a second time to capture a Shard, the fortress is then moved to another yet-unknown planet. This explains why the fortress is now gone in modern Roshar. ...OK how crazy am I?
  8. Has anyone else noticed that the device that the Ire had in the center of their fort looked very much like a warning fabrial. Please tell me if I am total wrong.
  9. The opening of the Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell, though describing the White Fox, who we know didn't have such powers, do sound like someone we know. The Fallen World is definitely the Cognitive Realm, and there are people who can kindle fire at will there: Kelsier and Nazh. However, things may be deeper than that. We know, from the Secret History, that Hoid has white hair. And it would not surprise at all if he had shaken hands with the Evil, no matter who he is, given his power beyond mere mortals. And he had ways to shock away Cognitive Shadows touching him, as experienced by Kelsier. I think that the White Fox is a mythical creature based on Hoid, and Silence Mondane just used his name. And I do wonder who the Evil is, who killed so many people in Silence's Homeland when Silence's grandfather was old enough to be a forestscout. We know that Silence's story happened after HoAA but before AoL, within the 300 years in between. My theory is that the Evil came after Kelsier's visit to the Ire's base, which is, I presume, on Threnody. I think the Evil came to destroy Ire's base, and destroyed Silence's Homeland, occupying the same location in the Physical Realm as a side effect. The Threnodite shades must have been so heavily invested to be able to linger in Cosmere after death, that they cannot leave the planet just like the shards or splinters. They're basically human minds riding investiture now, just like Ruin but on a much smaller scale, and that;s why they act so shade-like. Ire's warding off the shades means they're on the planet, which, I presume, is in the same system as Scadrial, since it was so easy for Kelsier to reach. Now, the Evil can the piece of Ruin shed by Harmony to balance his powers within. It makes sense given Ruin's grudge with Ire. But I don't buy it. Rather, the destruction of Ire looks so much like the outpost to the invasion of Scadrial. Ire set up their base there when they had plans for Scadrial, making it a very strategic location. The Scadrian shards have minimal power there, but it's still close enough to strike regularly. The Threnodites are allowed to survive in the Forests of Hell because they were never the targets of the Evil, and the Evil doesn't like wasting his powers on minor things.
  10. We read in Mistborn: Secret History that the Ire are worried about someone or something crossing over the border from Threnody. Alonoe, the Ire who wants to take up Preservations power, says that, " "Perhaps there was someone, but the guard was wrong about it being a Cognitive Shadow. Have the guards be on alert, and leave the device on just in case. This timing strikes me as too opportune to be coincidental" " (pg. 301). I have some vague ideas/questions about this. Why are they worried about a Cognitive Shadow crossing from Threnody to Scadrial? Obviously, Shades aren't fun to deal with, but are they worried about more than just Shades crossing over? One of the guards, a bit before, asks, "How would a Threnodite have made it all the way here?", which probably means that traveling on and off of Threnody is very difficult. I'm not quite sure where I'm going with this, but it sticks out. The phrase, "This timing strikes me as too opportune to be coincidental", signals that something has occurred on Threnody, though it might be just the goings-on of Scadrial. Basically, why are the Ire so worried about Threnody? Are they fearful of Shades? If they are most likely Elantrians, then they have no need to fear Shades, as they can probably destroy them. Are they worried that the Evil has managed to travel between worlds? Any thoughts?
  11. Crazy theory but... So according to Arcanum Unbounded there was some fight on Threnody between Odium and Autonomy and we know that shades are cognitive shadows. And in Mistborn: Secret History Nazh mentioned that to became a shadow there are some requirements and traditions and what if Nazh is from pre-Evil Threnody and they are creating shades on purpose, to become sort of ascended or immortal but fight between Shards twisted them into shades. On Roshar influence of Odium is connected to red eyes and on Thenody if shades are enraged their eyes turn red so what if it means they are influenced by Odium in that moment and they attack. And in Bands of mourning Epilogue there is Faceless Immortal with red eyes that could also mean it is not kandra but cognitive shadow from Threnody under influence of Odium that Ire in Mistborn: Secret History were afraid of?
  12. On my reread of Secret History I noticed something - when Nazh gives Kelsier his knife, he says that "Ire were doing this much longer than us". Us meaning him and Khriss. While we don't know when Khriss started her cosmere scholar career, it was definitely after White Sand. We know White Sand is before Elantris and we know Elantris is less than two thousand years before Mistborn First Era. Well, now we don't know how long is "much longer" or when Khriss started doing her thing. We don't know how long before Elantris is White Sand. We know that Ire are really, really, really, really, really old. But all in all together I think we can safely assume Ire (as a group) were doing their thing long before Reod occured.
  13. While rereading Elantris, I took a look at the Aon dictionary and stumbled over the Aon IRE, meaning "Time, Age". Any thoughts about it being connected to the Ire in SH? (Somehow an obvious similarity, so I searched the forum for it and didn't find anything - if there is something I didn't find, just pull this over there.)
  14. The general consensus about the force coming at Scadrial is either Odium or Autonomy. Here's an alternate idea: The red haze Sazed showed Wax and red-eyed faceless immortals are related to The Evil that caused havoc on Threnody. Support for this idea: In MB: SH we see there being a connection in the Cognitive Realm via the Ire that the Threnodites may be coming toward Scadrial. Three hundred years later, perhaps The Evil made its way from Threnody to Scadrial (or almost to Scadrial) and is causing trouble there. It seems like a weird coincidence that Brandon mentions the Threnodites at all in MB: SH, unless there's a connection to the story. Miles Hundredlives was under the influence of something. Since SH shows the Ire (most likely from Sel) and a risk of Threnodites, to me the something would be related to one of these places. If the red haze/red-eyed faceless immortals are influenced by something from Sel, to me it's likely related to the Svrakiss. Interesting idea though, what if the reason the Ire are so worried about something coming from Threnody is because they know the Svrakiss came from there in the first place? Sounds awfully similar to shades to me (with cultural references added in to make it religious). Not that they're the exact same thing, but similar. Whatever The Evil was/is, it created an issue with the afterlife on Threnody, which is why shades float around everywhere. This could be a result of The Evil's ability to put a barrier in the Cognitive Realm, preventing souls from moving on to the Great Beyond. The red-eyed faceless immortal that speaks with Suit at the end of BoM says that he can "serve in another realm." Perhaps The Evil is starting the same kinds of mischief that it caused on Threnody. Disclaimer: It is completely possible that Odium was The Evil on Threnody, but I find it very unlikely that Autonomy was. Let the story overlapping begin! It's beginning to look a lot like cosmere! =)
  15. So far, we've heard about 4 groups of worldhoppers. The Ire, which from Sel and was on Scadrial for a time, and is trying to get hold of preservation to give to a member (Secret History). The Seventeenth Shard, which is friends Frost and is chasing Hoid. There are the Ones Above who are extremely advanced and are giving information to First of the Sun which could be dangerous to the inhabitants. And finally, there is Silverlight, a group that went to first of the sun, is known to Khriss, and didn't return after going there. It could be related to the Ire. I feel like the Ire's goal is mostly selfish, because they tried to get a piece of a shard. Seventeenth Shard seems to be centered around an ideal of sorts. The Ones Above seem to be mostly mercantile, and Silverlight seems to be an exploring group. Are these groups working together? What is their goal? Do they know about eachother? Do they like eachother? How do they recruit members? How much do they know?
  16. I read Mistborn: Secret History before I read Elantris, so I didn't realize that the Ire were Elantrians until I read through it again. I know that they are from Elantris, and were trying to capture Preservation's Shard, but I don't know who they are. Is the Ire (possibly) another name for one of the other groups we've seen? Is there a WoB on this?
  17. Today I was re-reading Secret History and I noticed something I missed at my first reading: This part made me think in another way about Ire's glowing drink. Of course they are Elantrian and they need the Dor to keep their abilities. This is why at a first reading, the first think that came to my mind was about "they drink liquid Dor to sustain themself". But this sentence shows a strong likeleness from the Ire's Drink and the Connection's Orb. Or at least Kelsier saw a connection (i know bad joke) between the two liquid with only a difference about quality. He may not be an expert but in his Cognitive Shadow form, He shows some intuitive understanding of the Cosmere's Mechanics. Therefore I began to think: It's possible the Ire's drink isn't Dor or raw Investiture but instead it's "just" Connection to their homeland (Sel or more specific Elantris) and they use it to enhance their connection to the Dor and recive it so far in the Cosmere. Has this idea some merit or it's just a baseless speculation ?
  18. I've just started listening to SSFH again and these very first sentences jump out at me. This almost sounds like a description of a worldhopper. This is the first time I'm reading this novella in awhile, so please enlighten me if we have some good theories about what this may be referencing!
  19. There is a recent WoB calling a question asking whether the Elantrians in Ire are from before theReod a good one. Well, I think those people may be even older than the splintering of the Sel shards: Elrao said: "Devotion protect us", which shows that he must have once worshiped her as a God. OTOH, the new Elantrians don't even know about Devotion. They were called the "ancient ones". Their life supporting mechanism was different from Galladon's, and the magic systems before the splintering was different from those after.
  20. Between the general worry of those extremely old (or perhaps extremely new?) Elantrians and the second (as far as I know) on-screen appearance of Nazh, I feel like Threnody HAS gone ahead and officially joined the Main Stage of the Cosmere, despite the opinion of Alonoe (BTW, could you HAVE a more Aonic name, sule?). This is interesting for a lot of reasons to me, but the timeline is of particular interest, as we see that Nazh is certainly alive at the same time as the Shades. This would seem to me to indicate that Nazh is quite old at, probably from the Homeland days of Threnody. We know that Shadows for Silence only took place a couple of generations removed from the settling of the Forests, but it seems that there are enough Threnodite cognitive shadows that the Ire keeps forces patrolling the border, and carry a specific anti-Threnodite device with them on their trip. We also know that Nazh was around during the Shaod period of Elantris, which was set a long time before the events of The Final Empire. Does this seem correct to everyone else? And is everyone else as excited to see more Threnodites as I?