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Found 10 results

  1. Hi everyone, I'm not sure if this has been posted already, so go ahead and link it, delete or whatever needs to be done. I've been thinking about the way ideals progress since there's no ironclad definite way to know other than off of personalities of the characters and the information surrounding the knights. The majority of my information for this post will be referenced from this link: https://www.brandonsanderson.com/the-ten-orders-of-knights-radiant/ Well, I think I may have stumbled onto something, I believe that the progression of the ideals is correlated with the clockwise direction of the Herald Wheel. I think it's best I explain using each character so we can go in order: Windrunners 2nd Ideal: “I will protect those who cannot protect themselves.” —The Second Ideal of the Windrunners (as spoken by Kaladin and Lopen) The general motto and purpose of the order. Great. 3rd Ideal: These all have a common theme between them. They each maintain what is a positive distance between what they want to do and what they need to do. There is an order that focuses on moral justice and fairness, more specifically understanding that the rules must be followed over personal attachments. Like the Skybreakers. Their order is all about fairness and it makes sense that Windrunners would add a standard to this ideal. 4th Ideal: I accept that there will be those I cannot protect!” — The Fourth Ideal of the Windrunners (as spoken by Kaladin) Kaladin utters these words when he notices that his friend Teft is dead and he nearly resorts back to the state that did in Kholinar from Elhokar's murder. He is faced with death and will face it more. In order to progress as a leader he must accept that death is a possibility for everyone around him, no matter how hard he tries otherwise. Kaladin is always the first into a fight, he can't help himself. But when he is unable to accomplish his duty, he folds. Bravery is about moving forward despite what perceived failure one might face. While this seemed like an easy villainous act to kill Teft outright but it was actually clinical. He must have noticed how Kaladin reacted to Elhokar and then Roshone, knowing full well this would break him. Something that is a common theme among Dustbringers (I can sense the Moash Dustbringer theory fans rubbing their hands together in delight) The main goal of the Dustbringers is self-control and Kaladin will not be able to function optimally if he's not able to keep it together. 5th Ideal: I AM STORMBLESSED! We obviously don't know the last but I think some of you can tell where I'm going with this. It has been brought up on numerous occasions regarding Kaladin's medical background: He was meant to be trained as a surgeon in Kharabranth. He has trained those under him to render medical care. He talks with Syl about turning into a scalpel. He's trying to join the ardenture as well as help the mentally ill. During the tale end of RoW, we see that Kaladin had misremembered or rather misunderstood Tien's final moments and decision. This moment was instrumental in him reaching the 4th and I believe will play a bigger part in KoWT. These are all traits that an Edgedancer carries out. We know in Book 5 he is traveling to Shinovar to do some healing, in what way we don't know yet. Based on the order's focus on the simpler people, I would imagine he will be focusing on them. Other forms of overlap are that the Edgedancers were made up of nobility or at the very least had the demeanor of one and there are a number of instances in books like WoK and WoR have glimpses of his past with him being teased as a 'lordling' or 'wannabe lighteyes' to paraphrase. Both orders are noted for being scouts and accomplished weapon masters. Skybreakers 3rd Ideal: “I swear to follow the will of Dalinar Kholin. This is my oath. ” —The Third Ideal of the Skybreakers, as sworn by Szeth I skipped to the third to get more to the point. The order of Dustbringers is about being brave and obedient and with this specific oath, the Skybreaker has become precise and how they pursue justice. This guideline can be a law or an individual, in this case, Dalinar. Releasers are about self-control and holding themselves accountable. Szeth has struggled very similarly to Kaladin but in an even more grotesque way. His destructive power is known throughout Roshar as the Assassin in White. The man who killed many, in particular, Gavilar the brother of the man he now serves. 4th Ideal: I will cleanse the Shin of their false leaders, so long as Dalinar Kholin agrees. ” —The Fourth Ideal of the Skybreakers, as spoken by Szeth Here is where I start to stretch things a bit. From the phrasing of the words, it sounds like he is taking out an infection. The last ideal was about learning the boundaries under Dalinar's supervision and now he is acting out his sense of justice with his master's consent until he becomes his own. Edgedancers are all about remembering and this quest is very personal to him and he hasn't been home so he would find that his memory of things will be misconstrued or turn out a lot different than he remembered. Another thing to note is that if my theory is right - Both Kaladin and Szeth are on the same level of progression in the story. Kaladin is on his 4th and working on the 5th with Szeth currently working on the 4th. 5th ideal: I AM THE LAW “If you progress as a Skybreaker, you will need to become the law. To reach your ultimate potential, you must know the truth yourself, rather than relying on the crutch presented by the Third Ideal. Be aware of this.” —Szeth's highspren on the Fifth Ideal Szeth-son-son-Vallano is truthless. Was born in the Valley of Truth. The title is the next release is Knights of Wind and Truth. Need I say more? But in all honesty, will this hasn't been confirmed that I believe Truthwatchers has a resonance of empathy. They can feel people's emotions and in order to be the best law enforcer you need to balance upholding the law with the spirit of said law and how it translates to those involved. Edgedancers 3rd Ideal: “I will listen to those who have been ignored. ” —The Third Ideal of the Edgedancers, as sworn by Lift This one is connected to observing people. In particular, in this case, Lift is trying to convince Nale to see the ever storm which was the first time it forced him to acknowledge his conviction of killing Radiants was misplaced. 4th Ideal: "I will remember to care for myself/I will remember where I came from/I will remember who I used to be." Lightweavers are all about realizing who they really are and noticing the lies people tell themselves. Lift wished that she wouldn't 'grow' anymore but from a physical aspect she's growing. I imagine there is still something left in her past that we haven't come across. Maybe she will admit that she isn't a child anymore? 5th Ideal: "I will always cherish/remember what is most important about myself." Since we have so little on the Elsecaller oaths I can only go off of the purpose of the order which is to reach their potential. In terms of a character arc, this feels like it matches for someone who doesn't want to grow up but will eventually grow up while still keeping the parts of her that define her. Truthwatchers 3rd Ideal: "I will tell someone my truth." I remember towards the end of Way of Kings when Dalinar had commanded Renarin into battle, he tried to convince Dalinar otherwise because he was having his visions or he had seen something that scared him. Anyways, I think he might have sworn his ideal just before he told Dalinar and Adolin about him being a Truthwatcher in Oathbringer. Their order struggles with telling and giving others the information they possess. I even imagine that a lot of starter truthwatchers weren't upfront when they got their bond. 4th Ideal: "I will advise only on the best possible outcome." We get to the Elsecaller aspect which is about potential and the draw would be that with the vast amount of knowledge they know, they would prefer to give the information in a way that does the most good. However, I step out on a leg and say that Renarin's corrupted aspect takes root here. The scene that makes me think Renarin is close or has sworn his new ideal, was his involvement with Taravangian up to getting executed by Szeth. That scene involved T becoming a God. If that doesn't get you shardplate, I don't know what will. 5th Ideal: "I will seek to enlighten those who wish it." There is a subset of truth watchers that are linked to investigative journalists in some of the new info that came out with the release of RoW. Giving people certain amounts of information can be absolutely devastating so the Truthwatcher in question must be sure that the person they are presenting their information in the most altruistic manner even if the main consensus might disagree with it. Lightweavers 2nd truth: “What am I? I'm terrified. ” —A truth as spoken by Shallan It's obvious that most of her arc is about overcoming her fear by using various identities or telling even more painful jokes. 3rd truth: “I'm a murderer. I killed my father. ” —A truth as spoken by Shallan[7] The best connection I can come up with this is the fact that Shallan's father was the one thing stopping Shallan's growth as an individual. We knew that he had saved Shallan after her attempted murder and then covered it up. Whether overtime due to the influence of the unmade or his own personal frustration, his desire to protect Shallan turned into one of abusive control. Her brother might have died had she not poisoned and strangled her father and had she and her siblings never tried to leave, who knows where the family would have ended up. 4th truth: "I killed my spren." -Paraphrased truth spoken by Shallan I don't think it's any surprise that Shallan spoke this truth in RoW that is centered around Willshapers. Blocking out the death of a spren, especially in an environment where killing spren is the biggest taboo within Shadesmar. This is also the time when Shallan loses her persona of Veil. 5th truth: "I am RADIANT!" Shallan has one alter ego left, Radiant. The Stonewards are focused on team dynamics and working with others. We can see glimpses of this with Shallan's 'Unseen Court', her operation with Adolin in tracking down the Sons of Honor, etc. But has always kept things close to the chest with her interactions with the Ghostbloods which she ended in RoW. Up until this point she had one foot in the door and out the other by keeping her dealings a secret until the end of the latest book. It will be interesting to see how all that pans out but at this point, Shallan should be divorced of her wishy-washy attitude to things and acknowledge who she really is. Shallan the RADIANT! Elsecallers As we have no official oaths to link from, I'm just going to base what I think each ideal is off of clues in Jasnah's life. 3rd Ideal: "I will express what I think is the truth" We have a small timeline of seven years off which Jasnah has been bonded to Ivory as her flashbacks to the night of her father's death was were we get a mention of Ivory's appearance. I'm not 100% sure when she started making her secular views open but I will she sure of an ideal when she made such a thing public. 4th Ideal: "I will trust those beside me" For the longest time, Jasnah was on her own in regard to her philosophical views and her knowledge of Voidbringers. The closest was the Veristitalian, which is a group of scholars. I believe she wsore this oath in Oathbringer around when she is considering killing Renarin lest he betrays them all. 5th Ideal: "I will protect the potential for a brighter future." We see Jasnah in RoW standing on the front lines with a blade and plate on. This sort of thing is usually, Kaladin and Dalinar or even Szeth sort of thing. She is coming out of her comfort zone but Hoid reminded her that she is kneecapping herself for the sake of 'fairness' that even she can recognise is pointless. The Windrunners are some of the best warriors in the Radiants along with Stonewards so if my theory is correct, it makes sense this is where Jasnah would be. She is the current Queen of Kholinar and based on her intentions, the last monarch of Kholinar. I don't know how things will pan out but she will be wearing a crown of some sort for the foreseeable future. Willshapers 3rd Ideal: Venli at the end of RoW is now searching for a home for the singers that have left the Fused. Venli up until this point has only been figuring out a means of emancipation for herself and those who are like-minded. But the next stage will be establishing a community will all these singers that have various views despite their shared desire for independence. Most likely they will face persecution from Oduim's forces and she must now have a way of defending these people which means a militia of diverse forces must be established. 4th Ideal: Once her settlement is established, there is a high chance that they will set Venli up as their leader but she will be extremely hesitant to take it or pursue this. 5th Ideal: This will most likely be the most difficult challenge for Venli. For someone who had years of resentment for following the traditions of her tribe only to be shunted in favour of her adventurous sister was what brought on her desire to bring back the Fused. We saw this clearly in the flashbacks of her before the Alethi arrived. I think this definitely makes sense. Let me know what you guys think. Am I full of it and projecting too much or am I doing a poor imitation of someone else's post?
  2. I was wondering what each ideal unlocks. For windrunners the first ideal allows bonding and access to radiant powers. The third allows a shard blade. The fourth allows shard plate. The fifth is pretty much unknown for now. But what does the second ideal do? Does the second allow anything new that one could not already achieve with the first ideal?
  3. When Kaladin said the words of his 4th ideal . A curious thing happened . A voice that wasn’t the Stormfather said these words are accepted. It’s a small thing but it has me thinking it’s foreshadowing something. I considered it could of been Dalinar.. maybe the sibling , idk it’s more to it ! Does anyone have any ideas
  4. I've been thinking a lot lately about what one might get at the Fifth Ideal. I am drawn to an excerpt from the following epigraph from Words of Radiance: "...for though the bond between man and spren was at times inexplicable, the ability for bonded spren to manifest in our world rather than their own grew stronger through the course of the oaths given." Words of Radiance, chapter 35, page 9. So the ability for spren to manifest in the Physical Realm grows stronger the more oaths that are given. I suspect this is why after the Third Ideal, spren can become Shardblades/spears/forks. Another epigraph mentions achieving the Fourth Ideal in association with "earning my armor," and there is obviously some mystery still around that. But what of the Fifth Ideal? If the Third is some sort of weapon, and assuming the Fourth is some armor, then what could the Fifth be? I welcome theories. The only theory I have is that the Fifth Ideal could be a Dawnshard (...whatever that is). It would make sense, then, with how Surges and Dawnshards are related with the destruction of... you know. Just an idea, if you have evidence to the contrary, please share. Also if I'm blatantly on the wrong track with any of this here, also please share.
  5. I’ve mentioned this a couple times on the Discord, but I just wanted to put it here as well. To me, the Elsecallers really seem to give off a vibe of being a very knowledge and logic-oriented Order of Radiants, at least if Jasnah is anything approaching a representative member of the Order. So that being said, I strongly suspect that at the end of Oathbringer, Jasnah swears her fourth ideal (or maybe her 5th, though I’d be really irritated at Brandon), and what's more, I also have a theory as to what it was, at least generally. Based on hints we've gotten about the Windrunner 4th oath from the gem archive, it seems that 4th ideals may generally be a significant shake-up from the previous three, with the Windrunners' presumably having something to do with it being okay to not be able to protect people under certain circumstances. Well, if that trend holds true for Elsecallers too, and if the Elsecaller ideals regard being logical and rational in their decisions and outlook, both of which I acknowledge are assumptions at this point, but I think plausible ones, what might their 4th ideal be? To me, it seems pretty obvious. Why did Jasnah not kill Renarin at the end of Oathbringer despite having every reason to suspect that he had been corrupted by Odium and was now at the very least a great danger to their cause? Because despite her knowing that it was the 'logical' thing to do, her love for him stayed her hand long enough for her to realize that not all was as it seemed. I think that moment was symbolic of her realizing her 4th ideal. And so, I put forth this as a possible candidate for what it was: “I will not allow logic at the complete expense of all emotional attachment to dictate important decisions I must make.” A very common trope is that people who are hyper-logical will often do terrible things because they disregard what their 'hearts' tell them is right. So to me it makes sense for one of the Elsecaller ideals to be a counter to this danger. Anyone have any thoughts?
  6. I’m just curious, do we know what level of Radiant Jasnah is yet? We know she isn’t a full Radiant yet since she doesn’t have her armor or she presumably would have summoned it, and also because she clearly isn’t at her full potential when it comes to realm-hopping seeing as it took her over a year to get back from Shadesmar. But seeing how ludicrously overpowered she is in the Battle of Thaylen Field in terms of her Soulcasting even without her armor, it wouldn’t at all surprise me if she’s at least sworn her Fourth Ideal. Are there any WOBs addressing this? I wasn’t able to find any.
  7. I've seen dozens of topics on 'when' the Recreance happened, 'what' the secret is that broke the KR, 'why' they abandoned their shards en masse, and 'who' may or may not have taken part in the Recreance. This is not one of those topics. Right now I want to discuss 'how'. @The One Who Connects recently reminded me that abandoning oaths leads to a slower spren death/regression, while breaking oaths can straight up kill them. It seems that the Recreance happened rather suddenly, and we're told that multiple orders took part all at once. That, to me, screams of purposefully breaking an oath. It's possible that each order chose a different ideal to break, but more likely... which oath could all the Radiants break at once? Only the first. Life before death. Obviously the Radiants betrayed this oath when they killed so many sprenblades, but how do you break this oath to bring that about in the first place? I don't think this is a likely candidate for the broken oath. It felt more like the Radiants had a collective (probably very convincing) reason to abandon their posts, and I doubt they just did it in order to give up and die... at least they wouldn't have chosen to do that all at once. Strength before weakness. Similarly, if their weaknesses caused them to perform the Recreance, I feel like it would be more gradual, with only a few Radiants falling at a time. Again, I feel that - if they had a good reason for the Recreance - seeing it through and betraying their spren would take massive strength. Journey before destination. This seems most likely to me. If the Radiants discovered a 'secret' that broke them, it could be any one of the things that numerous other threads have discussed (again, don't derail my thread!) Regardless, I think it's safe to say that if the Radiants decided the Recreance was the only way to save humanity (or really any other very convincing end goal), then they would heroically go through with it despite the cost. While noble in theory, that attitude is wilfully putting destination before journey. I think making that choice is what allowed the Radiants to leave their shards as they did. I obviously have a lot of assumptions here Anyone have another idea on 'how' the Radiants were able to perform the Recreance as they did?
  8. When Kaladin achieved the Third Ideal, a glyph appeared. Is it known what this glyph was? Was this the glyph for the Windrunners? I suppose that could be shaped like wings since there are stylistic choices available with glyphs to make them appear differently.
  9. What two different glyphs/symbols are displayed behind/under Kaladin after he says the words of the Third Ideal? The first looks like a pair of wings (while he is in the hallway), and the second (after he drops down) looks like a sword . I am guessing one is the Knights Radiant.... the wings? And the sword is the Windrunners from the 10 orders illustration on Brandon's site. I am mostly curious about the winged sigil/glyph/symbol. I have the audiobooks, so if there is a Web link to an image, I would really appreciate it.
  10. Hey guys and gals, I recorded last night's signing with Brandon Sanderson in "Los Angeles" aka Huntington Beach =P Along with getting a Shardhunt code, an R.A.F.O card, and the audio of the whole event. I also may have received a new Ideal of the Knights Radiant? A reply from an Oathgate? Who knows! My book is signed: All in all it was a long, but fun night. I had a great time talking with the other fans and even Brandon himself. The audio I've attached is about 45 minutes long. Enjoy! ~sbi WoR_Tour-03052014_Part01.mp3 WoR_Tour-03052014_Part02.mp3 WoR_Tour-03052014_Part03.mp3
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