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  1. SUMMARY Cultivation is the Growth Shard. Roshar has stopped growing. The Growth Shard feels compelled to change that. This post speculates what actions Cultivation might take to restore growth and how those actions overlay known Rosharan history. CULTIVATION'S NATURE Odium describes Cultivation’s nature as “transformation. Growth.” (OB, Chapter 57, p. 551.) Cultivation tells Dalinar: “ALL THINGS MUST BE CULTIVATED… I CONTROL ALL THINGS THAT CAN BE GROWN, NURTURED.” (OB, Chapter 114, Kindle p. 1079.) I read this to mean Cultivation controls all living things. FWIW, Brandon says Cultivation would be a mono-green M:tG deck. I think Cultivation doesn’t play favorites among lifeforms – she controls and cultivates “ALL THINGS THAT CAN BE GROWN.” That includes Singers, Aimians, and humans, other fauna plus flora, and each Shard’s spren. CULTIVATION’S PROBLEM IMO, Cultivation as a Shard cannot abide stagnation. Binding Odium led to Desolations that destroyed human civilization more than fifteen times and near-obliterated Singers and their culture. Catastrophe tends to focus mortal minds on survival, limiting the scope of ideas available to the spren “gene pool.” Blockading voidspren in Braize further reduces the spren “gene pool” and bars ideas from cross-fertilizing. The Recreance left spren “only now beginning to recover the culture and society they had lost…” (OB, Chapter 47, Kindle p. 479.) Roshar’s history hurt the growth of all mortal species and the spren that personify their ideas. Roshar’s Shards, IMO, should work well together – as “primal forces,” I believe Honor makes Connections, Odium breaks Connections, and Cultivation changes Connections. These three mechanics seem necessary for a smooth functioning planetary life cycle. Rayse’s ambition and “loathsomeness” means the Shards don’t work well together. I think Tanavast before his death succumbed to the Honor Shard, which also caused dysfunction. The Stormfather tells Dalinar, “HONOR LET THE POWER BLIND HIM TO THE TRUTH—THAT WHILE SPREN AND GODS CANNOT BREAK THEIR OATHS, MEN CAN AND WILL.” (OB, Chapter 38, Kindle p. 406, bold added.) Odium and the Stormfather agree Honor changed and relied on naked oaths at the end, not their meaning: Other passages acknowledge or hint at Honor’s rigidity. Contrary to Cultivation’s neutral view of lifeforms, the Stormfather intones oaths “are the mark of men and true spren over beasts and subspren.” (OB, Chapter 4, Kindle p. 60.) Dalinar elsewhere notes, “The Stormfather…didn’t like the idea of change.” (OB, Chapter 28, Kindle p. 292.) IMO, Tanavast imparted these attitudes to the Stormfather. CULTIVATION’S PLAN I believe Cultivation wants to end Desolations and “unite” Rosharan species to stimulate growth. I think her plan involves replacement of Tanavast, Rayse, and herself as Vessels. Tanavast is too rigid for growth, Rayse too dangerous, and she (like another cosmere heroine) will not want to live without her lover. Cultivation’s “Unite them” plan pushes species interactions and mutual understanding. Moash and Venli switch sides. Venli bonds with both Timbre and her voidspren. Kaladin sympathizes with the Singers. I think he’ll bond Yixli, the yellow voidspren who first found him. IMO, Yixli is a “protection” spren like Syl, and Syl will welcome her companionship. Syl’s growing friendship with Pattern shows her expanding tolerance, rare for an honorspren. (OB, Chapter 97, Kindle p. 908.) Her tolerance matches Kaladin’s. I believe Cultivation restores Sja-anat’s free will to create Glys and resist Odium. Sja-anat serves Cultivation’s transformative function when she “enlightens” spren. CULTIVATION’S IMPLEMENTATION OF PLAN Creation of Radiant Spren As the Shard of Transformation, I believe Cultivation created Radiant spren. Cultivation may have foreseen Aharietiam and needed a magical alternative to the Heralds that didn’t rely exclusively on Honor’s Investiture. Jasnah notes, “The difference between a higher spren like [Ivory] and a common emotion spren was in their ability to decide how to act.” (OB, Chapter 47, Kindle p. 479.) Free will seems important to Cultivation. Aharietiam With the Desolations’ pace quickening, civilization ground down. I’m sure far-seeing Cultivation knew Taln would endure torture millennia longer than other Heralds. Maybe Cultivation sought a healing respite and planted the seed of betrayal in the Heralds’ minds. Taln tells Ash, Recreance I still think there are more answers to the Recreance’s mystery. The Stormfather tells us, It’s plausible these fears caused the Recreance; but IMO Cultivation played a role. I can see a Shard who wants to transform Roshar preferring a new batch of spren and Radiants. Before he learns of the Eile Stele, Dalinar tells Yanagawn the Radiants “lost their vision [and] forgot their purpose: protecting Roshar for its people.” (OB, Chapter 56, Kindle p. 546.) The Stormfather says Honor “guarded against this [and] convinced the Radiants they were righteous…” (OB, Chapter 113, Kindle p. 1052.) As he lay dying, though, Honor “raved” and “promised that Surgebinders” would destroy Roshar. Maybe Cultivation wanted to kill the immortal witnesses to Honor’s raving. She silenced institutional memory until the Last Desolation, just as she pruned Dalinar’s memories. After the Battle of Thaylenah, Dalinar can remind the Radiants of their vision and purpose: “protecting Roshar for its people.” Dalinar does not distinguish among Roshar’s people. He knows the enemy is Odium, not the Singers. Dalinar will craft a war plan that focuses on the Fused. He will seek ways to separate Singers from their new masters. Venli and Rlain will help him. He will “unite them” – all Roshar’s people – to expunge Rayse’s ravages from Roshar. Odium Kills Tanavast I think Cultivation helped Odium kill Tanavast. He’d changed from the person Cultivation loved and was now more Honor than Tanavast. Under her own Shard’s Growth compulsion, I believe Cultivation felt she had no choice. There's two bits of textual evidence. First, Odium says “WE KILLED YOU.” (OB, Chapter 119, Kindle p. 1139.) I believe he needed an accomplice because he was "too shackled" to kill Tanavast on his own. (OB, Chapter 57, p. 550.) Second, the Stormfather says Odium avoids direct fighting since it “might coax out forces that could hurt him, as he has been hurt before.” (OB, Chapter 16, p. 167.) Odium must have known Cultivation would not intervene before he attempted Tanavast's murder. Maybe Cultivation warned Tanavast of his inevitable death. This may be why Honor delegated honorspren creation to the Stormfather. Kaladin says Honor “was setting up an heir.” (OB, Chapter 108, Kindle p. 1015.) Stormfather Becomes Tanavast’s Cognitive Shadow “ALL THINGS THAT CAN BE GROWN, NURTURED” includes the Stormfather, even if he is Honor’s godspren. Merging Tanavast into the Stormfather to await a new Vessel is what the Shard of Transformation might do. The Stormfather notes the change: I believe Cultivation wanted to preserve Tanavast’s mind and memories. She might be the author of Dalinar’s Stormfather-sent visions. Those don’t sound like the ravings of a dying god who fears Surgebinders will destroy Roshar. Illumination seems Cultivation’s specialty. Cultivation as much as Honor wishes to “unite them.” The merger prevented Honor’s power from splintering more than it did and infused that Investiture into the Stormfather: “We are something different. [Honor’s] remnants, your soul, my will.” (OB, Chapter 119, Kindle p. 1141.) Dalinar’s will and the Stormfather’s soul, fortified with Honor’s “remnants,” opened the Spiritual Realm to Dalinar’s command. The Stormfather by himself lacked the mental strength to renew spheres. (OB, Chapter 64, Kindle p. 639.) Cultivation has found a new Honor Vessel. Dalinar I think Cultivation’s touched Dalinar since his early days. The physician who attends him during the Battle of Narak seems shocked Dalinar can still move his scarred arm. (WoR, Chapter 83, Kindle p. 1003.) IMO, Cultivation’s Investiture healed Dalinar during his battle years. Dalinar’s Healing – Cultivation-light or Voidlight? @LerasiumMistborn lists “all the scenes where Dalinar feels this strange ‘warm light’ which comes from [an] unknown source.” I believe this is Cultivation-light. The first scene occurs at the end of WoR, Dalinar’s vision of his youthful home, “before…” (WoR, Chapter 89, p. 1065.) In a 2014 post, I note this scene foreshadows Dalinar’s Bondsmith role, as he transforms from violence to piety. The post mis-ascribes the source of the light as Honor, but it states Dalinar as Bondsmith will directly access the Spiritual Realm. I now believe Cultivation pushed Dalinar’s transformation by implanting memories (real or not) of his pre-Blackthorn days. I also now believe many of the “unite them” exhortations speak in Cultivation’s voice. Cultivation “prunes” Dalinar. She does not change him. She creates the conditions where he can change himself. Dalinar discovers, “When I fall, I will rise again a better man,” and “The most important step a man can take is the next step.” The Nightwatcher could not grant Dalinar forgiveness; Dalinar had to forgive himself. IMO, Cultivation gave him Evi’s last words when Dalinar was ready to hear them. Taravangian We don’t know if Cultivation or the Nightwatcher gave Taravangian his boon and curse, but I think Cultivation chose it. IMO, Cultivation foresaw Taravangian would serve Odium. Knowing Rayse, Cultivation anticipated he would meet Taravangian only on Taravangian’s “stupid” days. Odium doesn’t understand compassion – one of the strongest people Connections. At some future time, on a day of deepest compassion, I believe Taravangian will hurt Odium in some unforeseen way. I agree with consensus Cultivation helped Taravangian create the Diagram. Cultivation’s influence may be why Odium could not foresee Renarin, just as he cannot see Lift. The Diagram persuaded Odium that he could use Taravangian, a decision Odium IMO will regret. Confidence in the Diagram also causes its adherents to act predictably. That helps Cultivation grow Roshar to her desired future. Lift We don’t know the source of Lift’s boon and curse either, but again I think Cultivation chose it. Brandon says Lift hints at Cultivation’s non-boon/curse magic. I suspect soul transformation is at its core. Posters cite the value of food to produce Stormlight if the Everstorm were to blot out the highstorm and cause a Stormlight shortage. SUCCESSOR VESSELS Evidence supports many candidates who might become new Vessels. IMO, a Bondsmith is best positioned to ascend to their bonded godspren’s Shard. Cultivation If the current Vessel stands aside, I lean slightly toward Navani over Dalinar to become the Nightwatcher’s Bondsmith. In favor of Dalinar, Cultivation has already visited and transformed him. He sees Cultivation-light (IMO) when Navani does not. (OB, Chapter 122, Kindle p. 1228.) But Navani understands spren and their transformative power more deeply than Dalinar. Her problem: as a leading artifabrian, Navani heads the spren slave trade. IMO, she must learn the old fabrial method and repent her actions before the Nightwatcher would accept her as Bondsmith. I expect we’ll see this happen: Brandon wouldn’t have Dalinar wait years for Navani only to spend eternity alone if he ascends and she doesn’t. Some posters suggest Taravangian for the Nightwatcher’s Bondsmith. Aside from Cultivation’s help with the Diagram, I see little basis for this. If Cultivation did change Taravangian to oppose Odium, I suggest Odium wouldn’t leave much of him afterwards. Honor I do think Dalinar will ascend as Unity, if he hasn’t already. Will Unity be a new name for Honor, or will Unity include Odium? I can see Dalinar as Vessel for both Honor and Odium. A mind that deeply understands both could wield both. Brandon says, “Dalinar represents both the best and worst of both Honor and Odium” to Cultivation; and “young Dalinar is very Odium. Modern Dalinar is very Honor.” But Brandon might not want to repeat a plot device he uses elsewhere. Odium My favored candidate for Odium Vessel is Ba-Ado-MIshram. Hessi calls her “a highprincess among the enemy forces.” (OB, Chapter 106, p. 984.) Imitating Dalinar, BAM distributed Voidlight during the False Desolation as if she were an Odium Bondsmith. (OB, Chapter 80, p. 780.) A Singer Vessel makes sense if Cultivation wants to “unite them.” The problem with Odium is Rayse, not the Shard’s “primal force.” Like all Shards, there’s nothing inherently evil about Odium. Taln is another possibility. The Ancient of Stone is the Stoneward Order’s patron. I believe the Sibling is the Spren of Stone, and Taln may become the Sibling’s Bondsmith. Ulim and Yixli share human features. This suggests at least some Voidspren came with the Shin refugees from Ashyn. The Shin later revere the Great Spren of the Mountains, Szeth’s Aboshi. Is there some connection between Voidspren and the Spren of Stone? Yixli the protection voidspren moves on stone (OB, Chapter 23, Kindle p. 238), though maybe that’s just her spren group. If the Sibling is related to Voidspren, Taln might be a candidate for the Odium Vessel. CONCLUSION Lots of speculation on a small collection of facts. Even if wrong, I think the main idea is sound – Roshar’s divisions stall its growth, anathema to Cultivation. Her plan, whatever it is, must try to heal that. Final Thought: Dalinar tells Gawx/Yanagawn, “And maybe you are the leader Roshar needs, while I am just an emissary.” (OB, Chapter 56, Kindle p. 545.) Does that foreshadow Roshar’s leader after Dalinar ascends?
  2. Mind and magic mingle on Roshar, a world of living ideas. Roshar’s Shards IMO resemble pieces of the Freudian mind. Honor is Freud’s super-ego; Odium is Freud’s id; and Cultivation is Freud’s ego. I think the Freudian mind provides a useful metaphor for the Shards’ conflict. Hear me out. Brandon says Honor is “the sense of being bound by rules, even when those rules, you wouldn't have to be bound by.” Honor sounds like Freud’s super-ego: “The super-ego…reflects the internalization of cultural rules, mainly taught by parents applying their guidance and influence….” Think Szeth’s oathstone. Odium’s “passion” sounds like Freud’s id: “the disorganized part of the personality structure that contains a human's basic, instinctual drives.” Says Odium, “I am lust, joy, hatred, anger, and exultation. I am glory and I am vice.” (OB, Chapter 57, Kindle p. 551.) You see this interplay most clearly in the Heart of the Revel scene (OB, Chapter 78). Revelers embrace pleasure heedless of super-ego-imposed duty. Likewise, Odium as id blasts away Dalinar’s super-ego – the culturally iconic, rule-making Way of Kings. (OB, Chapter 118.) In Freud’s terms, Desolations are super-ego-repressed compulsions of the id that periodically resurface. Cultivation “prunes” for long-term growth. This is the ego’s role: Freud says the ego is like a rider seeking to guide and restrain a willful horse (the id): “The super-ego's demands often oppose the id’s, so the ego sometimes has a hard time in reconciling the two….” (Source.) IMO, Cultivation created Radiant spren (through the Nightwatcher) as super-ego-like cultural ideals to help bind society, the antidote to basic instinctual drives. I think the Freudian mind analogy is interesting even if Brandon doesn’t intend it. The words “fiery surge,” “red lightning and impetuous rage,” and “desolation, void of light,” appear within eight lines of each other in John Milton’s description of Hell. (Paradise Lost, Book 1, lines 173-181.) Does Brandon intend that allusion? You don’t always know with authors. @Bigmikey357 gave me the idea for this topic when he said, “So basically Odium was Adonalsium’s id before they split up.” If you like the idea, credit him.
  3. The recent Culivationlight Shardcast got me thinking about what Cultivation is doing with her investiture. http://www.17thshard.com/news/shardcast/shardcast-cultivationlight-fanx-words-of-brandon-p1-r434/ I think she is providing the gemhearts which leak into the physical realm in a similar way to how (mistborn spoiler) To put it in terms of human anatomy Cultivation and Honor were lovers, their spren refer to them as Mother and (Storm)Father, Stormlight = Sperm Gemheart = Womb Spren = Child I realize Spren are tiny splinters and they aren't conceived via stormlight going into gemhearts, but I think the metaphor works for what powers 2/3rds of the magic on Roshar. I say they power the systems together because, with the exception of beings like Lift and Larkins (Chiri-Chiri ) , surgebinders can't just take in Stormlight directly from a source like the Highstorms. They need to capture stormlight in a gem first. Fabrials also need stormlight in a gem and often a spren. A main difference between Surgbinding and Fabrials is where the Spren is bound. In surgebinding it is bound to the users soul with fabrials it is bound in a gem. But all three components seem to be important.
  4. I made this for a school assignment The Plight of the Radiants Saving a land that is not theirs; Protecting from it’s rightful heirs; Is it we who are the just in this endeavor; Can we truly protect this world forever; Honor tells us we must fight; Our position now makes us right; For who can blame a child for his father’s acts; Does he tell us this so we do not forsake our pacts; We destroyed the world that was ours; Will we not repeat to do the same with our powers; Will we ever be granted to pay back what owe; For who is the fiend, us or our foe;
  5. I went through my OB notes and came up with some ideas I’d like to let loose. Others may have anticipated them, but if so, I didn’t notice your posts. Please take your credit. IS MRAIZE A DYSIAN? Random reasons provoke this question: 1. Spy Network. Mraize and the Ghostbloods seem as informed as any group on Roshar. We know Dysians use their hordelings as spies. 2. Unseen Actions. Mraize delivers his messages to Shallan completely unnoticed. It’s as if he disassembles then reassembles in her room where he writes his notes. 3. Mraize’s Face. Mraize’s scarred face may mask his Dysian imperfections. Here’s how Shallan describes him at their first meeting: The second time Shallan meets Mraize, she observes “his scarred face, misaligned lip, and weathered hands… he looked like someone who had repeatedly had his bones broken….” (WoR, Chapter 54, Kindle p. 628.) 4. Mraize’s Age. Mraize calls Veil “child,” like Hoid calls Shallan and Jezrien (Ahu) calls Dalinar. This appellation surprises Shallan, since she made Veil appear older: This suggests (but doesn’t prove) Mraize may be pretty old himself. (He does call Shalash “Ancient One,” but that seems more respect than an indication of relative age.) Mraize as a Dysian also explains his contact with other Shardworlds – @Overlord Jebus theorizes (correctly IMO) that Dysian hordelings will foster inter-Shardworld communication. Of course, Mraize could also be a Hoid masquerade, but for now I’ll stick with a Dysian “from Thaylenah.” AN HONORSPREN OATH? Notum tells Kaladin, “’I’ve sworn an oath myself,’ the captain said. ‘To Honor, and to the truths we follow.’” (OB, Chapter 108, Kindle p. 1017.) This causes me to wonder: Must honorspren swear an oath to become an honorspren? Is it a rite of passage like confirmation? Do some “honorspren” refuse to vow? Are these the mistspren that sail the Honor’s Path? NALE’S FIFTH OATH Nale has spoken the Fifth Skybreaker Oath, which he says means he has become “the Law.” This seems wrong. Nale’s Divine Attribute is “Just,” which means he should embody Justice, not the Law. Instead, Nale derides Justice as inferior because mercy leads to recidivism: KR orders share their Herald’s Divine Attributes. Radiant spren IMO are attracted to people with the right Primary Divine Attribute – “protect” (Honorspren), “just” (Highspren), “brave” (Ashspren), “loving” (Cultivationspren), “learned” (Truthwatcher spren), “creative” (Cryptics), “wise” (Inkspren), “resolute” (Lightspren), “dependable” (Stoneward spren), and “pious” (the three Siblings). Radiant spren are living exemplars of these Attributes. I believe the Fifth Oath fully manifests Radiant spren in the Physical Realm. They merge Spiritwebs with their bonded mortal, who becomes the living exemplar of their Primary Divine Attribute. Nale should be Justice, not the Law. Since he thinks he’s the Law, I suspect Lift did not fully heal him. IS TIMBRE ICO’S DAUGHTER? Timbre may be Ico’s daughter. Ico is the captain of the spren ship that picks up Kaladin, Shallan, Adolin, etc. at Riino’s Shadesmar lighthouse. Ico is a Lightspren, the Willshaper spren. He tells Kaladin, “My daughter used to work [at the Celebrant moneychangers] before she ran off chasing stupid dreams.” (OB, Chapter 101, Kindle p. 948.) Something about that line sounds like Timbre is his daughter and ran off, like Syl did, to bond with a mortal. Maybe her “stupid dream” is to be first to bond a Singer. That’s something a Lightspren might want to explore. Timbre attunes to “Resolution” quite a bit, the Willshaper Primary Divine Attribute. HONOR AND ODIUM’S POWER I still believe Honor’s power “makes Connections” and Odium’s power “breaks Connections.” On Roshar that generally means “people” Connections. I think the Dalinar-Venli vision shows the full extent of the powers’ difference: Odium breaks. Honor binds. Threnody Spoiler That’s what I got for now.
  6. Hey team, I apologise in advance if this post isn't particularly well laid out - I have little time at the moment and a thought just struck me so I wanted to get it down before I forget about it, and I don't know if this has been discussed before or already theorized (I had a quick look and couldn't find a mention of it). I agree with @Calderis that there are three specific magic systems that operate in three different ways. I also agree that the fused have not been Voidbinding currently. Essentially the theory is that how magic on Roshar works is that: A) Surgebinding is the system of magic through which the fundamental forces of nature are manipulated through the filter of Honor and Cultivation Fabrials is the system of magic through which these forces of nature can be trapped, stored and then used (this one I am less confident about and would be interested C) Voidbinding is the system of magic through which the fundamental forces of nature are manipulated through the filter of odium. This, especially the Voidbinding postulation, I base on the WOB below. Linked to this, if we consider that Voidbinding is the accessing of the fundamental laws of creation and forces (as per the quote) through Odium, then because humans were originally of odium, and we know that they destroyed their previous home, I believe that humans used Voidbinding to destroy Ashyn. This fundamentally would suggest that humans were the original Voidbinders. This would also tie in nicely to them being the Voidbringers. So to conclude quickly: Voidbinding is the accessing of the forces of creation through the filter of odium and humans were the original voidbinders who used voidbinding to destroy Ashyn.
  7. @Perspective and @Ishar were joking about what would happen if you ate a Shardblade, and I turned that into a discussion about eating Honorblades instead... We know that Honorblades are made of Tanavastium, so if you lived on Scadrial and were to swallow and burn Tanavastium, would you gain the ability to Surgebind?
  8. I don’t really have any evidence for this assumption, at least not hard evidence. However, in the scene where he accidentally walks in on Shallan in a nightgown, I noticed something odd he said. He said, “...my name is Adolin Kholin, I was born under the sign of the nine...” Knowing Brandon, I wouldn’t dismiss this as coincidence out of hand. We know Braize, Odium’s Invested planet, is related to the number nine. Since Preservation’s number was 16, Honor seems to be 10, while Odium is 9. Nine shadows of his Champion, Nine Unmade, etc. We have WoB on that, can’t find it. Anyway, what is “the sign of nine”? Why does it happen that a main character, who has had nothing special happen to him as an individual thus far (at least in comparison) suddenly mention this supposedly unimportant fact in passing? Coincidence? Not likely.
  9. There's a question to be asked: Why Nalan hunts Surgebinders? Or rather: Why does he believe that Surgebinders may cause Desolation? Let's get a timeline. I'll be puting quotes in spoiler tags. There were no Desolations before humans were on Roshar. At first, Heralds were the only Surgebinders. At one point, spren figured out what Honor did and started bonding humans which resulted in Surgebinders. Heralds became patrons of the Orders, at the same time imposing organisation on them. We know that between Desolations Radiants fighted with some monsters (Dalinar's vision with Midnight Essence). We know that Heralds are sent back to Roshar before Desolation. We know that if they stay too long after Desolation ended, another one will start. Aharietam and Recreance: The Last Desolation was 4500 years ago. There is a connection between Heralds tortured and Desolation. Kalak seems to believe that if Odium cannot torture them to break them, he can't cause a Desolation. After Heralds walked away from Oathpact, Knights Radiant did not leave their posts. Steel stores physical speed. When Recreance happened, one of the soldiers in Feverstone Keep mentioned that Radiants should be fighting devils on the front line. So even after Last Desolation monsters showed up. After Recreance there were probably no Surgebinders (or next to none, since spren turned away from humans). Honor was Shattered after Recreance (or maybe Tanavast survived Shattering long enough. It is nor clear or known.) since it is in one of the Dalinar's visions Modern times: Taravangian believes that Desolation happens when Heralds break under torture and that spren came back because it was to happen. Stormfather forbidden spren (or maybe only honorspren) bonding with humans in fear of Recreance happening again. He has to accept Words, though. Stormfather sent Dalinar visions as demanded by Tanavast. These visions request Dalinar to refind Knights Radiant Spren started bonding humans at least ten years ago (Shallan's childhood) Nalan hunts Surgebinders down because he believes that Surgebinding may cause Desolation. Voidspren started showing up en masse after "Taln" returned to Roshar. But Venli is suspected to bear stormform earlier. True Desolation seems to be triggered by chain reaction: stormspren start hijacking Listeners -> large number of stormform Parshendi exist -> Voidbringers summon Everstorm -> Everstorm circles Roshar carrying more voidspren, triggering more Voidbringers out of formless Parshmen But Radiants existed for a long time after the Last Desolation, until Recreance. When Heralds abandoned Oathpact Jezrien said "There is a chance we might end the cycle of Desolations." But that wasn't their intention, they wanted to get free of the torture. They seem to consider End of Desolations as a side effect, not the primary goal. They know that Odium is somehow bound by their torture and they're afraid he will find a way around them not returning to the Damnation. True Desolation seems to be different to the regular Desolations, but we do not know why. The question is, why would Nalan hunt Surgebinders since they existed before without triggering Desolation? Why is the True Desolation different from the previous Desolation? How is it different? What is the exact connection between Herald's torture and breaking under it, their return, release of voidspren and start of Desolation? Do spren sense Herald's coming near to point of breaking? Discuss, provide more quotes and WoBs you find relevant.
  10. From the album Stormlight By Jemma

    "Unite Them!" Dalinar Kholin. This is a scene that takes place in Oathbringer . On the left is the cognitive realm Shadesmar, the center represents the physical realm, and the right is the spiritual realm. There's no real description of the spiritual realm, but in the world of the Cosmere, it's the breaking spirit that allows the investiture of magic. As such, I decided to represent it by shattering as it reflects Dalinar's broken--but undefeated spirit. This was a blast to work on and I'm glad I was able to find the time to finish it!
  11. In OB we learn the apparent reason for the Recreance: Humans had been the original Voidbringers and would eventually destroy Roshar by using surges, as we hear from the Stormfather himself: The thing is, it does not make a lot of sense. A: They could have chosen a way less dramatic exit. They could have broken their bonds and still retain the Shardplates and Blades. This way their order would have remained as a powerful political institution to prepare humankind for the next desolation. Or in general to keep order in Roshar. B: There has been one Knight Radiant order around for 4000 years, they did not destroy Roshar and possibly never will. Therefore, behold my grand theory! The Radiants abandoned their oaths because they realized, humans are Odium`s children. This needs a bit of explanation. So let`s back off a bit shall we? Rosharan came from Ashyn/ the Tranquiline Halls, which they destroyed by using Surges. They had access to these Surges but they were likewise under Odium`s influence. I think it is likely Odium created Rosharan humans on Ashyn Edit: This is definitly not true as seen by WoB below quoted by RShara. Anyways, it is apparent Odium has a deep bond to Rosharan humans as he speaks to Dalinar and Taravangian: It is made clear in Dalinar`s passage explicitly and in T.`s implicitly that old Rayse regards Rosharan humans as his children. Maybe this is a special trait he brings to the power of Odium. He does not want to destroy them, he wants to corrupt Honors influence and ethics and bring them to his side. We know for some time that the question of whether you are on Honors or Odium`s side is not as much about your ends, but about what means you are willing to employ to get there. Journey before destination is Honor`s path. Passion before anything else Odium`s. Now, if we look around Roshar at the beginning of SA, we see Odium`s influence everywhere, Honor`s almost nowhere. Alethi culture is all about game, the thrill, the glory, the victory. The codes of Honor are followed by exactly no one except House Kholin. The Way of Kings used to be a handbook for any ruler, almost nobody is reading it in our time. The Vorin church reveres the Almighty, but does not put ethical, “honorable” restraints on anyone. In fact in Kholinar we see that one Ardent paving the way for the arrival of the Unmade. The Shin follow the code of their tradition too much. So much so they miss the time, for which they were created in the first place. They make Szeth Truthless for this. In Azir it is almost the same. The protocol has become so elaborate, it makes responding to challenges almost impossible. Powerful groups in both countries only care about staying in power, not about how this power is exercised. And then there is the enslavement of an entire race, about which nobody cares about…. I can think of two explanations for this horrible state of affairs. 1) Humans on Roshar as Odium`s children are more drawn to Odium than they are to Honor. 2) It was Odium`s subtle influence on his children over 4000 years that created this; Or a combination of the two. This is the explanation for point A). If the Radiants had stayed as a powerful force on Roshar, their Order would have been corrupted by the shortcomings of human nature or Odium`s influence. They would have become like the Skybreakers or the Vorin church: Organizations corrupted beyond recognition. Odium would only need to ask the Bondsmiths to release him end they would have freed him. By terminating the Order they gave future Radiants the chance to stand up to Odium. It is likely that the enslavement of the Listeners gave the deciding impulse to make them realize they were becoming a tool of Odium. Regarding point B), I propose it is not exactly Surgebinders onto themselves that are destroying worlds. It is Surgbinders under Odiums influence doing it, as it happened on Ashyn and was going to happen on Roshar with corrupted KR orders. The Knights realized that they were the children of Odium/ Voidbringers. Therefore they had to accept that their order would be corrupted, even if they had just abandoned the spren and carried on without them. The Skybreakers realized they would be immune to Odium`s influence, if they`d be completely emotionless. This in turn perverted the intent of their order.
  12. With the revelation that Odium could be seen as Passion, and the older theory that Odium+Honor would be Justice... Honor focuses on creating bonds, and Odium possibly being Passion, could their joining create... Love?
  13. By now, we know it is possible to actually kill the Heralds and not just kill them through the use of a dagger from Odium's investiture and that Moash has been entrusted with it along with Jezrien's Honorblade. But it kind of strikes me as unusual that they only armed him with the honorblade after he has already murdered Jezrien. Is there any implication with him having it while he tried to kill the herald? I know that killing Jezrien is meant to be seen as more of a test of his loyalty/passion, but what if it wasn't an actual test but a requirement? What if they have a plan with Moash? One that might possibly involve killing all of the heralds and bonding with all of their honorblades? We already have a WoB that says a Radiant CAN bond with an honorblade, therefore giving him access to additional surges or making his surges a bit stronger if he has the honorblade of his own order. Can you imagine how powerful one man can become if he bonds with all ten of the honorblades? Wouldn't that make him the closest one to actually becoming Honor? What if this is Odium's plan for him all along? To have Moash gather all of the honorblades, then gather all of the splinters. Only now, he would become a twisted version of Honor, maybe Loyalty? Honoring his debt of gratitude from Odium? Seems to me that Moash's whole journey focuses about his revenge and lack of honor (betraying Kaladin). Is he fated to realize his mistakes and actually become the new shard of Honor? Not to mention also that the original Parshendi were also from Honor. What if they were working against Odium to restore their old god? What do you guys think?
  14. Did Roshar originally have Spren? Sylphrena indicates 4 genders of spren. 2 for the Parsh, 2 for the human. I don't think Roshar was formed like other Shardic worlds. No other Cosmere world has spren like Roshar, so far. It would seem that the Parsh thought of their objects being Malen and Femalen, voila SPREN! Perhaps? Maybe? Did the way they think or sing create the spren way back then? Shard worlds seem to have the 3 realms setup. Roshar wasn't created by a Shard (that I'm aware of.) The way I understand the history is that Odium saw the existing native Parsh and decided to become their god. He got invested to that Solar System. Along comes the human Voidbringers to settle around Shinovar (initially.) Honor and Cultivation either settled with them or decided to call it home at a later time. Introducing Honor's high storms, Odium's Everstorm (old in design) and the Cultivation's/Nightwatcher's Old Magic. When I read TWoK, I assumed Honors' death and Splintering brought about the spren. I have now been proven false. So, I suspect Roshar was similar to an Earth like world and topography. The Parsh evolved naturally and all was pleasant until Odium rolled on in. My question is HOW and WHEN do you think Roshar got spren? A certified timeline of these early events would be great to read. Thank you.
  15. Odium is usually depicted as the big bad and his Intent reduced to Hatred while Honor is considered good with all the positive connotation that word has and him helping humanity. I think this is intentional misleading by choice of name and their Intent is not limited to the word. Odium says that he is about passion and I am inclined to believe him. Honor is more about binding to an idea like an oath or a spren, less about this oath being good or honorable. While Odium is crafty and none of what he says should be taken as fact, we should not do the opposite either and discard everything because it is an evil corruptor saying it. Neither should everything Honor and/or the Stormfather says be taken as fact. Odium's splintering of Devotion and Dominion was not necessarily an evil act because we do not know how those shards were while alive and they did break a part of the original pact of the vessels. What I miss about Odium's passions though is love, so what about if he once loved and was betrayed by that love, breaking him forever. Not love for a fellow shard but love for a people. When he came to Greater Roshan, he invested on Ashyn and became god to the humans there and fell in love with them. But Odium's touch is passion in excess and passionate use and abuse of investiture led to the great catastrophy that devastated Ashyn. Odium still loved his people though so he went to Roshan and asked Honor and Cultivation for a place for his people. But Honor claimed that the humans were unsafe with investiture so he demanded that Odium make a pact with Honor that he would make sure the humans would not get their hands on investiture, leave Shinovar or something similar. So the humans moved to Shinovar, isolated from the rest of Roshan and from the highstorms by the mountains, Odium's command and maybe a pact. Honor on the other hand did not love his people, the singers and saw in the pact with Odium a chance to do what he was good at, binding him, into a prison. Maybe he was afraid, as Honor and Cultivation were in a similar position as Devotion and Dominion. So when discontent increased in the upper class of the humans about the lack of power from investiture and being isolated, Honor found 5 men and 5 women and lured them with promises of power and conquest to make the Oathpact, binding them to him and giving them access to investiture (SF I think claims the Oathpact was a reaction to the Fused but that does not make it fact). So Odium's beloved people betrayed him with the help of Honor, binding him to a prison consisting of the pact Odium made with Honor for the benefit of this people. Odium's Passion broke, splintering Love away from him, the remnant now dominated by Hatred. Betrayed to the humans by their gods Honor and Cultivation, the singers were desperate as the first desolation swept over them, so they and Odium were natural allies. This started the cycle of desolations. Well, most of this is not based in fact (and the exact wording of any pact as prize for Shinovar would matter a lot), the intention is just to show that perception matters and if you avoid seeing Odium as absolute evil and Honor as good, interesting interpretations open up.
  16. So I know there's a theory going that when Dalinar united the three realms, and Odium said "we killed you", he was referring to Adonalsium rather than Honor; that somehow (either in the spiritual realm or the beyond) Odium saw Adonalsium in the perpendicularity Dalinar created. I won't go into it all here, but I was thinking about the letters from various shards to Hoid in the epigraphs and started wondering about Hoid's motives. The letters seem to imply that Hoid has contacted multiple shards of Adonalsium and asked them to assist in the conflict on Roshar. On the surface it would appear that he wants their assistance in stopping Rayse, but is it really that straightforward? It seems very un-Hoidlike to simply ask directly for help, and he even contacted Autonomy (who he isn't on good terms with) and Harmony (who he doesn't really know personally). Dalinar's power allows him to bind together the spren of something that has been shattered but remember being whole, and we know from the Stormfather's reaction (and Odium's) that his ability to manifest a perpendicularity is unprecendented, and makes it possible that Dalinar has access to LOT of power in this department. I think it's possible Dalinar could restore a splintered Shard in the right circumstances, but could he do more and restore Adonalsium itself? If this is the case, and if Hoid knew this, then his attempt to lure the other shards to Roshar could actually be part of a plan to get Dalinar to "Unite" the shards, restoring Adonalsium. This is just wild speculation, I'm not actually 100% sold on the whole "Odium saw Adonalsium". I do think Hoid's letters tie in nicely with it, but I would also like to discuss some evidence that contradicts it. It's still quite possible that Odium was referring to Honor when he said "we killed you", the "we" implying that Odium wasn't acting alone when he splintered Honor. If this is the case, my money would be on him working with Autonomy, after all we do have this epigraph... ...which seems to suggest Autonomy's involvement. So what do people think? Was Odium referring to Adonalsium or Honor when he said "we killed you"?
  17. At the Battle of Thaylenah, when Dalinar accesses Honor's perpendicularity, Gloryspren surged all around him, letting him ascend. So we know for ascension, even temporary ascension, it requires large amounts of investiture, which came partially from having access to Honor's investiture in the spiritual realm through the Stormfather and perpendicularity. But that does not explain why Gloryspren surrounded him and made a pillar of light. The Gloryspren appeared before when he used his powers to repair Thaylenah: The gloryspren saved him from falling to Odium: The Gloryspren are the splinters of Honor. In the above quote the gloryspren wasn't attracted to glory because Dalinar had no glory, but it was still attracted to Dalinar because he had access Honor's perpendicularity and Honor's shadow, the Stormfather. Honor's power is the ability to create bonds, so its only natural that the splinters of Honor would want to come back together when a significant portion, Honor's perpendicularity and shadow, are already connected to each other. Edit: I mean that the Gloryspren are the splinters of Honor that formed Honor before Odium shattered him. So Odium shattered Honor, and then those splinters became gloryspren.
  18. Might we see Dalinar ascend to form the shard Unity? Thoughts?
  19. What is honor's perpendicularity?? Does it makes odium vulnerable?
  20. Exactly what it says on the tin. In theory, it seems like any sapient being should be able to hold a shard. In which case, a sapient spren probably qualifies. But if this is true it has some wierd implications.
  21. In ch. 119 of OB Taln became lucid as soon as Dalinar released Honor's Perpendicularity, and in ch. 121 we find out that he regressed before the fighting started i.e. when the Perpendicularity disappeared. Could there be a connection between Honor's power and Taln's soul? Is Tanavast's madness related to this?
  22. I was reading a thread the other day- Regarding the Secret That Broke The Knights Radiant and the topic of the various ethnic groups of Rosharans came up. @Heir of the Void wrote this interesting post to cap off the discussion, and it got me thinking. I agree with these ideas, broadly. The best way to explain the bizarre spread of human ethnic groups across Roshar in my mind is if they based their expansion on the Oathgates. That represents the ten silver kingdoms and the ten major ethnic-culture groups of Roshar. Expanding on this- we know Honor had a Perpendicularity, but it was lost when he died. What if Honor's Perpendicularity WAS based roughly at the site of Urithiru? Cultivation's Perpendicularity is in high mountains as well (the Horneater Peaks). The best way to get between worlds is through Shadesmar, so if a large population of humans transported into Shadesmar to escape the destruction of their planet, they could walk or sail to Honor's Perpendicularity and then use it to enter Roshar itself. There are several possibilities from here: 1) Urithiru and the Oathgates were already there, and it was inhabited by the Dawnsingers. The humans negotiated with them and were thus granted Shinovar. Over time they grew restless, and used the Shinovar gate to return and conquer Urithiru, and then each group claimed one Oathgate for themselves, conquering the land around it on the other side. 2) As above, but the Shin were the first group. They were satisfied with Shinovar. But, other human groups migrated as well, possibly from even more planets, and each group claimed an Oathgate and the land on the other side. 3) Urithiru and the Oathgates were NOT there, and the refugees were led by land to Shinovar. The Oathgate was built to allow quick transportation between Shinovar and the Perpendicularity, and the ten groups spread out over land to conquer a land each for themselves, constructing Oathgates in turn, and eventually they build Urithiru. My main contention is that I think Honor's Perpendicularity was originally based where Urithiru is now, and that is why the Oathgates and the tower were built there. This provides a way for all ten kingdoms and ethnic groups to spread out and settle in entirely different regions, while still being linked to a single location through which to plan and coordinate in response to later Desolations. What do you guys think?
  23. This topic’s called Consequences of Honor, but I think we should really be looking at the consequences of a lack of honor. Well, a lack of Honor. Let me explain. We all know that Honor was splintered, and that Honor used to have certain ‘checks’ on Surgebinding. These checks, along with Honor himself, are gone after the Splintering. What were these checks, though? I think we may have already seen a few things Honor might not have wanted to happen. Example 1: Kaladin and his magical highstorm-stopping wall. We’ve theorized that this was a use of his Adhesion Surge, maniplulating pressure to divert the highstorm around himself. I do think that is probably true, but the important thing that I noticed was that Syl had never heard of anyone doing that before. It’s a new, scarily powerful thing. Example 2: Unity. Dalinar’s moment of Ascension was awesome, and true, it’s most likely due to his bonding a big piece of Honor’s power, but that doesn’t mean it’s not dangerous. Having a Perpendicularity on call? That’s scary. Example 3: Shallan’s Lightweaved army. She’s still only at her 4th Oath, as far as we know, and it’s surprising she was able to summon that ridiculous number of illusions out of nowhere. It’s a huge power boost from what she used to be at. Also, I’d like to talk about how her illusions had mass, and splattered illusions of blood, too, even though she’s not at all practiced with Soulcasting, which is what she assumed was going on. There might be other examples that I missed, or there might be perfectly reasonable ideas for why these types of powers seem to be new, surprisingly powerful manifestations of Surgebinding. I invite you all to try and tear my theory apart!
  24. So just a crazy theory here. From Oathbringer we know that the Parsh were attempting to get to Feverstone Keep right before the Recreance, which is where many of the KR left their blade and plate. I think that the Parsh could have been trying to reach Honor's perpendicularity to complete the shattering that had started earlier and then they succeded. When honor was shattered that killed any spen who were currently in a nahel bond. The KR were then left with dead spren screaming at them and immediately left their blade and plate behind. The felt they had broken some sort of oath because they allowed Honor's shattering. But they did not break their nahel bond oaths. With regard to the skybreakers, it has been said that they maintained their oaths. I think it is possible however that the skybrakers who were KR at the time still abandoned their blades and plate but continued their culture and attempted to recruit new spren/acolytes with the guidance of Nale. Finally with regard to the spen who believe that the KR had broken their oaths, they would have only seen spren deaths from broken oaths prior so it is natural to assume that the spren that died were due to broken oaths. Also it is unlikely that any higher spren was present as the stay mainly in shadesmar unless part of a bond, in which case they would have died. I think this may be true as the "secret" behind the recreance seems rather underwhelming and already know among the KR and the shattering o Honor has already been linked to the recreance. So I think it is possible that instead of breaking the nahel bonds, those bonds were instead broken by Honor's shattering.