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Found 3 results

  1. WARNING: I AM NOT SURE IF I BELIEVE THE FOLLOWING THEORY IS TRUE, BUT I WILL TRY TO CONVINCE YOU ANYWAY WARNING2: THIS IS NOT A "RENARIN WILL GO EVIL" THEORY, EVEN IF IT MAY LOOK LIKE THAT You must be wondering the meaning of the title of this thread, and your minds must be wandering throught dark places, as did mine as I conjoined the pieces of this Frankenstein's Monster of a theory. I'd post the fragments that lead me to these (mis)conclusions, but my e-book has been misbeheaving. 1.What we know: 1.1: The Hierocracy suppressed knowledge from before the Recreance. 1.2: They tried to conquer the world with a justification scarily similar to Dalinar's commands to unify. 1.3: They were very secretive, esoterical and claimed to have the power of prophecy. 1.4: Many of the precepts of modern vorinism were created in opposition to the Hierocracy. Now, things get interesting: 1.5: We know an order of Radiants did not forswear, but entertained great subterfuge at the expense of the others. 1.6: The Truthwatchers were secretive, esoteric, and did not readily share knowledge or speak of their actions. 1.7: If Renarin is any indication, the Truthwatchers have the power of prophecy. 1.8: While we know Renarin couldn't have progressed to whatever is the truthwatcher equivalent of a second oath knight until some time between bonding his shardblade and entering the big duel, we have no idea how long he has been bond to Glys. 2.What this thread is about: To put it simply, the Truthwatchers were the order that didn't forswear, instead slowly fading from view and taking over the church. After the Sunmaker defeated the Hierocracy, they disappeared again and infiltrated the Ardency and various governments and secret societies around Roshar, becoming a conspiracy within other conspiracies. Knowing the son of one of the most important men in Roshar was compatible with the order, they contacted him in secret, perhaps while Adolin and Dalinar were at Shinovar, promising to heal his epilepsy if he joined them and became their sleeper agent, to act as an intermediary with the new orders if so they wished. Of course, Renarin is neither a traitor nor an idiot, and the Truthwatchers knew that. So they taught him, told him part of their goals, let him know they weren't telling all the truth, and allowed him to refuse to cooperate if he wanted. They convinced him he was protecting his family and gaining the opportunity to follow his dreams, but at the same time could walk away if he wanted. And they never told him enough for him to be a threat, and he knew it. So, after they decided he would prove loyal enough, they secretely sent him a spren as part of his initiation. A spren who would give him forbidden powers, leave him in fear, drive him apart from others. A spren that, after remembering enough, will send Renarin back to them, where he will be welcomed by those who truly understand him, and he will become one of them. A Hierocrate. EDIT: changed the last paragraph, since it was supposed to be about possible future events. EDIT2:I think I may have convinced myself. Still unsure. EDIT3: 3.Amaram Strikes Back: One glaring flaw in this thery I forgot to adress is how the Sons of Honor, who want to bring back the Hierocracy, are connected to the Truthwatchers. Since the SoH seem horribly misguided, I'd say they aren't truly directly descended from the Hierocracy, but a group of people frustrated with modern vorinism who want to bring back the "good old days", and are most likely being manipulated by Odium. The true Hierocrates are just shaking their heads in disbelief and trying to find a way to use them to their purposes, whatever are they.
  2. Early in WoR Shallan and Jasnah have a discussion about the Hierocracy having edited old works to suit themselves meaning that there's no "reliable" texts around. That I remember, no specific example is raised in the rest of the book - I guess because the characters don't yet know enough. When Shallan finally gets to read the in-world "words of radiance" book the section on Truthwatcher says very little. Suspiciously little - even if this particular Order had been very secretive there should have been rumours. I think the Hierocracy had a particular reason to heavily edit the Truthwatchers: the priests of the Hierocracy claimed to be able to have visions of the future, like actual Truthwatchers. The downfall of the Hierocracy lead to anyone claiming to be able to see the future to be regarded as extremely suspect - I doubt this was the case before since otherwise the Hierocracy wouldn't have claimed that ability. If Renarin is any guide, the Truthwatchers did in fact have a particular ability to see the future. So, assuming that is correct then the Hierocracy would fear any (accurate) info on the Truthwatchers being recorded. Rather than make up something they probably just removed it - simpler and more reliable (since all books throughout the world have to be changed in a reasonably consistent way). So, a boring simple theory: the Hierocracy claimed to have the similar abilities to the Truthwatchers and so heavily edited the texts on them. PS Yes I'm assuming that Renarin wrote the countdown messages (or his Spren did). He did write a countdown of zero at the end of the book after all. But I dont remember any abilities of his being confirmed and there's been surprisingly little discussion that I can see on them.
  3. Apologies if this has been addressed, but I couldn't find anything with search. Sorry on the slight WOR spoilers. I'm not too familiar with the spoiler policies, so if this should be elsewhere, sorry for the extra work MODs. The prohibition against predicting the future is bugging me quite a bit, and I think offers a little insight into the Recreance. Admittedly this is mostly supposition. IIRC, in WOK we are told that prescience is a gift of the voidbringers. Words of Radiance slight spoilers: If you look into the future of Roshar after the Final Desolation, you would presumably see another desolation coming. You know that this is impossible, the Heralds themselves have confirmed that the Final Desolation has occurred, and you know that in the past you were able to actually see the future. There are two conclusions that can be drawn from this. One is that your vision of the future is wrong. If your vision is wrong, something must have happened to change it, and because what you now see is heretical to the heralds, and pro voidbringer, it follows that the enemies of mankind have screwed up our ability to see the future. The second is that the heralds have in fact lied about the Final Desolation truly being the FINAL desolation. If enough KR came to that conclusion, that the highest archetypes of human virtue and divinity have lied about such an important event (out of base cowardice no less), I can imagine a pretty harsh reaction from an order of knights based on Oaths. I can even see this causing the KR to dissolve. I buy this as the cause of the Recreance more than the other explanations that I've seen. As a side note, if I were a Herald, and wanted to hide the same of my violation of the Oathpact, I would need to eliminate the chance of anyone looking into the future and seeing that I was lying. Thoughts?
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