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Found 192 results

  1. Give we are told by ishar that he is trying to bring back the oathpack. Given that we are told several times that cognitive shadows are closer to Spren then they are to people. Given that the key difference between the Heralds and other connective creatures are there physical bodies. Given that we see ishar trying to give physical bodies to cognitive beings in the form of high Spren. Is ishar trying to figure out how to give a cognitive being a physical body? If so dose he intended to use this to create new Heralds to replace the old broken ones?
  2. I belive that wit has 4 surges. Wit was the first one to meet taln after 4500 so I think he took taln's honorblade. So he gets 2 surges form there and then he gets 2 surges form design
  3. Though we've only seen him directly in a couple of scenes so far, I find Ishar one of the most intriguing of the Heralds and a character I'm very interested in figuring out more as Stormlight progresses. Most obviously because, though he doesn't get as discussed as often as, say, Jezrien, and isn't set to be a main POV character like Taln or Ash, almost every time he's mentioned we find out more of the major events of Roshar's history that he's had a hand in - seriously it seems like half the time a rock gets turned over regarding the history and lore of Roshar, we find him hiding under it. Whose experiments with the Dawnshards and/or the surges apparently led to the destruction of Ashyn? Ishar's. Who founded the Oathpact? Ishar did. Who became the Herald associated with the Bondsmiths, arguably the most powerful Radiant order? Ishar. Who enforced order on the proto-Radiants and was apparently already powerful enough to personally destroy them all if they refused? Ishar. Who convinced the other Heralds to abandon the Oathpact, or at least showed them how? Ishar. Who convinced Nale that he had to hunt down surgebinders to stop the coming of the Everstorm? Ishar (and I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out he also convinced Kalak to start the Sons of Honor, considering Kalak and Nale hung out at least occasionally). Who has Ash convinced he's the only Herald to still be sane and trustworthy, despite being a ranting megalomaniac? Ishar. Who's that Tukari warlord with a god complex who gets namedropped every now and again? Ishar. And who's apparently involved in some way with the Shin Stone Shamans? Ishar again. The point being, dude's had his fingers in a lot of pies, even for a Herald. And it seems like he was a very dangerous man even before he went all megalomaniacal. I, for one, have been suspicious of how often his name keeps cropping up from as early as Words of Radiance, and each further book only reinforces my belief that this is a guy to watch and be wary of. From what we see in Rhythm of War he's scary powerful and involved in some strange and creepy things (and I have a feeling we've only seen the tip of the iceberg regarding what he's really capable of). With Dalinar sending Kal and Szeth to bring him to heel it looks like he's being set up for an important role in book five - which, interestingly was originally supposed to be Dalinar's book (aka, the Bondsmith book). Personally, I don't trust even Ishar's moment of sanity; sane or mad, I think there's more going on with him than we've yet been privy too. Now, everything I mentioned above could be just the random acts of a madman, but personally, I'm inclined to doubt it- Ishar may be a madman, but he's also a genius, and I think he's got some sort of endgame in mind even if it doesn't make sense to anyone but him. Is his ranting about taking up Honor and Odium and becoming a new Adonalsim just the delusions of a megalomaniac, or does he actually have some sort of plan to achieve it, even if it probably won't work (he's not actually Honor's champion, for one). Or does sane!Ishar have some other plan that got buried under the character of Tezim the God-Priest? How has he convinced the other Heralds to listen to him - is he just more rational when the person he thinks is Odium's champion isn't around, or does he (as I've seen suggested) know some trick with Connection to make people trust him (which is incredibly creepy in its own right, if true)? Why is he experimenting on spren? Why does he want Dalinar to meet him in Shinovar specifically? And, perhaps most importantly of all, will he be dealt with in Book Five or will he continue to play a role (as an ally or an enemy) in the back half of the series? Personally, I've got a lot of thoughts, but few that feel like concrete answers. But I do think, one way or another, Ishar is going to have a very important role to play in how things unfold from here. Anyone else have thoughts on the Herald of Luck?
  4. So I know there have been a number of attempts over the years to match up the Unmade with the Heralds. In this post, I also try to match them up, but this isn't another theory about the Unmade being corrupted versions of or split off from the Heralds. Rather, I'm positing that the Unmade are drawn to (or maybe represent, or exacerbate) manifestations of the various forms of madness being experienced by the Heralds and the mal-adaptive ways they are trying to cope with their madness. I got the idea from a side tangent in another thread about whether a Bondsmith is necessary to entrap an Unmade. I think the consensus opinion there is that you don't necessarily need a Bondsmith, but you definitely need someone with a deep understanding of the particular Unmade. For example, Shallan is able to see that Re-Shephir is afraid of her because at some time in the past Re-Shephir had been imprisoned "by a Lightweaver like Shallan, who had understood this creature." (OB 30). This got me thinking more generally about how artifabrians have to attract spren with something they know in order to trap them in gems. But that idea of attraction also reminded me of something Jezrien (as Ahu) said during a drunken conversation with Dalinar in Oathbringer: Jezrien here seems to be drawing a line between the Heralds' madness and the Unmade. From context here, I take it that the "we" in his statements refers to the Heralds and the "them" to the Unmade. So, what might the Heralds have done to attract the Unmade? I think has something to do with the way the Heralds' minds are experiencing a sort of cognitive dissonance with human perceptions of them, and with the different ways that the Heralds are trying to cope with that madness. Here's a WOB on the subject: Shalash is the clearest example of this. Vorinism associates her with the divine attributes of creativity and honesty. But she knows the Heralds were dishonest, and is driven to destroy depictions (copies) of her. Her madness is characterized by the opposites of her attributes: Creativity - Copying; Honesty - Lies. This matches up pretty neatly with Re-Shephir, who we see is drawn to Shallan's lies (her illusions) and spawns copies of the violence she sees. Further, given Jezrien's belief that Dalinar had attracted the attention of an Unmade, I'm wondering if maybe the Unmade are not just drawn to the Heralds' madness or coping mechanisms but to others who exhibit the same behavior. Reasoning along these lines, here's my attempt to match up the Unmade with the Heralds. Of necessity I begin with the Heralds we have actually seen. After that, the theory obviously breaks down a bit, but I still try to find matches based on what we know about those Heralds: Shalash - Re-Shephir: discussed above, I don't think this pairing is controversial at all Jezrien - Ashertmarn:No longer protecting and leading, Jezrien deals with his madness by excessive drinking. This matches up with Ashertmarn, the mindless Unmade who urges people to indulge to excess and abandon their lives and responsibilities Nale - Dai-Gonarthis: Nale's madness manifests as a near-total lack of emotion. It's almost like a void that has consumed all emotion, which I think matches up with what little we know of Dai-Gonarthis (The Black Fisher holds my sorrow and consumes it!). Also we see conjecture that Dai-Gonarthis was involved in the scouring of Aimia. Given what we've learned about the dangerous secret hidden in Aimia, the scouring reminds me of Nale's mission to find and kill proto-Radiants. Ishar - Ba-Ado-Mishram: I feel like these two match up given they're both very knowledgeable about Connection, and they both used Connection to serve as leaders of their respective organizations. Ishar's madness does manifest in opposition to his attributes of pious and guiding, as Ishar now blasphemes by claiming to be god and misleads both humankind and the other Heralds rather than guiding them. BAM also arguably blasphemed by trying to play the role of Odium in the False Desolation. Turned out to be a rather misguided plan. Kalak - Yelig-Nar: This one I'm not totally certain about, but there are connections. There's the Amaram connection. Kalak (as Restares) led the Sons of Honor, an organization in which Amaram played a prominent role. There's the amethyst connection. That's the polestone associated with Kalak's order, and Amaram bonds Yelig-Nar by swallowing an amethyst, and then grows carapace and amethyst crystals from his body. Kalak's madness manifests as indecisiveness, which is opposed to his resolute attribute, but I don't know if I see a Yelig-Nar connection there. The other attribute is builder, and Yelig'Nar seems to consume/destroy his hosts which fits. Battar - Moelach: I really don't have much on the madness theory with this one, but there are other reasons to match these two. First there's Battar's involvement (as Dova) with recording the Death Rattles. Moelach was said to grant visions of the future most commonly at the transition point between realms, when a soul is approaching the Tranquiline Halls. Battar's order, the Elsecallers are those most skilled at navigating the transition between realms. Battar's attributes are wisdom and care. If I wanted to stretch I could say that Moelach, as one of the mindless Unmade fits with the opposite of wisdom. And the actions of the silent gatherers certainly cut against the attribute of care. Vedel - Nergaoul: Although we don't know whether we've seen Vedel on screen at this point (Liss?) Nergaoul, the Unmade that inflames emotions and provokes bloodlust, war, and violence, seems a pretty good opposite to Vedel's attributes of loving and healing Pailiah - Sja-Anat: Again, it's unclear if we've seen Pailiah on screen. (Brandon supposedly wrote in a signed book that she was the aged ardent in the Palanaeum in Way of Kings, but later seemed to back away from that). So I can't describe her madness except to say that I would expect it manifest as someone ignorant and selfish, the opposite of her attributes learned and giving. (Total side tangent crackpot theory: who exemplifies selfish ignorance more than Ialai? And the letters of her name are right there in Pailiah, but I digress, plus RIP) But again, I feel pretty good about this pairing given Sja'Anat's involvement with Pailiah's order, the Truthwatchers. Sja-Anat is the taker of secrets and the Truthwatchers are the most secretive order. Sja-Anat enlightens spren; Pailiah is learned. Sja-Anat can only be seen in reflected light and mistspren resemble the shimmer of light reflected through a crystal. Lots of connections. Chanarach - Chemoarish: just about the only thing we know about Chemoarish is that she's sometimes called the Dustmother, so matching with the patron of the Dustbringers just makes sense. Plus she's the only one left if you don't count Taln. That just leaves out Taln, who didn't have a chance to attract an Unmade with his madness on Roshar because he was holding down the fort in Braize for 4500 years. So there you have it. A somewhat different approach to trying to match up the Unmade with the Heralds. Interested in others' thoughts.
  5. Hi all! I wanted to share a quick cosmere fic that I've been working on today. The idea is that I'm going to do a short character study, between 1,000 and 2,000 words, for each Herald (I've written five of them already). They're generally based between Oathbringer and Rhythm of War. The first chapter is based off of Jezrien! I hope you all enjoy it. All feedback is welcome so long as you're not rude!
  6. So we all know that the heralds have a unique madness that is most likely linked to their divine attributes and how people perceive them. I’ve seen several threads theorizing that the capturing of Ba-Ado-Mishram is what caused their madness, but if you remember what Ishar said in his brief moment of clarity to Dalinar, he says that their madness retreats when they are around Radiants that swear ideals or when they are near the Spiritual Realm. Now I’m not trying to pinpoint when their madness started, although Kalak’s epigraphs hint that it could be a result of their enormously long life. What I am trying to say is that if their madness retreats when around Radiants getting upgrades, and if the only Radiants left after the Recreance are the Skybreakers playing Radiant whack-a-mole, I wonder how many opportunities the Heralds would actually have after the Recreance to experience an Oathed-up moment of clarity. I think it is most likely true that they were quite mad before the Recreance and that they already knew what sort of experienced brought clarity. So ya, there you go.
  7. In the mistborn series when a certain god metal is burned it does two things: 1) weakens the shards influence temporarily 2) regenerates in specific place tied to the shard I think there may be additional rules in place in Roshar with it manifesting as spren as a "release valve" But assuming that it does not manifest as a spren, where does Jezrien's investiture regenerate to when he dies? Does it fuel the other heralds? Does it empower surgebinders? Is it sealed away?
  8. So, does anyone else thinks that Gavilar wasn't actually looking towards bringing something like Everstorm, but just looking to free all singers from their bondage? As we know Restares is Kelek who, from the epigraphs, knew about the effect of Ba-ado-Mishram's imprisonment on Roshar and perhaps guessed that Radiants gave up their powers for this reason (probably) as they felt guilty for causing such drastic change to Roshar and its native population. So he decided to restore the singers and the only way to do that was to bring back Taln from Braize, thereby freeing fused and suing for peace. He had anti-voidlight already prepared and ready to destroy fused as a backup incase they don't work with him. It's such a marvel that we still can't figure out what Gavilar wanted. While he was an asshole towards his family, may be here he wanted to do something good. What do you people think?
  9. So, here’s a random thought I had. Warbreaker spoilers ahead!
  10. Well, this is the first time I submit a topic and I've also been here for a very brief period of time, so I'm not really sure if this is something that has been discussed before, but I've always wondered why (when watching podcasts or videos about the Stormlight Archive) nobody seems to coment on something that I find quite obvious. This would be a spoiler for Oathbringer, but I'll be marking it just in case. I'm posting this mainly to know if this is considered as "obvious" as the fandom as it is to me, because as I said, I've never seen it being at least mentioned.It'd have interesting implications for the future development of other characters of the series, so I think it would be nice considering it.
  11. Do we think the other Heralds had moments of lucidity when Navani bonded the Sibling, too? Or was Ishar special for one reason or another? If they did, I hope we hear about it.
  12. Odium killed Honor, but did he have help? I was going over some death rattles, (getting all kinds of ideas) and had this thought: Did the Heralds kill Tanavast? or somehow knowingly allow Tanavast to be killed? Did they have Cultivation help, did her machinations go back this far, did her power take over her vessel, and she cultivates plots? We know she has sought to replace at least one shard vessel. Chapter 1 Epigraph: "You've killed me. Bastards, you've killed me! While the sun is still hot, I die!" Is this Tanavast, referring to the heralds, the heralds and cultivation, or maybe cultivation and odium? Why would Cultivation want to kill Honor and let Odium splinter his shard? What motivation? The Rhythm of War. The force created by Odium and Honor, as long as the two existed as equal power, the war would continue. Cultivation and the heralds would both have motivation to stop this. Chapter 54: "The burdens of nine become mine. Why must I carry the madness of them all? Oh, Almighty, release me." Was this Taln? Tortured on Braise, giving in, unable to take the torture, but Tanavast, being dead, unable to release him? If the herald could not be released, then perhaps the enemy could be locked away, and indeed it was, for a time. Tell me what you guys think.
  13. Hello! I've been trying to work out the timeline for the first events we know that happened in Roshar. We know the Singers "betrayed" the Spren and I am extremely curious! I don't think we have clues about what happened, but this is what we know: 1 - Roshar was inhabited by Singers and the shards Honour and Cultivation 2 - Humans arrive on Roshar after destroying their original planed with surgebinding. Ishar was a bondsmith and the one able to transport the people Odium came with them to Roshar Questions: how did investiture work in Ashyn? Via Honorblades? Did the Honorblades come from Ashyn? If so, why honor blades? 3 - Once the humans arrive, the Singers give then Shinnovar. 4 - We know eventually 2 things happen: Humans start conquering other regions War with the Singers, they betray the spren and loose their connection to them. Is this when the Fused and Unmade show up? 5 - The oath pact is made, the Heralds vanish Odium. Question: what happens with the singers between Desolations (before the false Desolation and imprisonment of BAM)? 6 - Spren imitate the honor blades and give surges to humans. Question: surges are based on Roshar´s surges, were Ashyn ´s the same? Or maybe, the Honorblades and Surges were created after humans came to Roshar... I think this makes more sense. 7 - The cycle of Desolations begin. Lets discuss if this timeline is correct (I'm probably forgetting something!) and what may have happened to make the Singers side with Odium.
  14. So, doing a re-reading of Oathbringer, I noticed the following passage: There are two important things to note here: first, Re-Shephir attempts to bond with Shallan. Second, it was a Lightweaver that trapped Re-Shephir. And we know that Melishi trapped Ba-Ado-Mishram. The general assumption, based on the WoR epigraph, was that this was something Bondsmiths could do: But perhaps it was not that Bondsmiths could trap the Unmade, but instead, it was something specific to Bondsmiths and Ba-Ado-Mishram specifically. We know that during the False Desolation, BAM was exhibiting Bondsmith-like Connection abilities. And we know how modern fabrial techniques trap spren: So it seems reasonable that trapping the Unmade required Radiants/Proto-Radiants that exhibited qualities that the Unmade would want to bond with; it's not actually just an ability Bondsmiths have, but Melishi could trap BAM because of their shared surges/fascinations/whatever actually drives nahel bond compatibility. Basically the spren is lured into trying to bond with someone, and gets sucked into the gem instead. We know that the means of killing the Heralds forever was inspired by what happened to BAM: It was weird why the singers would make Moash use the dagger to kill Jezrien; the only way that makes sense is if somehow Moash was the only person (that they could coerce/know about) who would be able to do this. Possibly something about Moash being effectively a failed Windrunner that might make him able to somehow bond with Jezrien's Cognitive Shadow. There's WoB that seems to indicate that a Cognitive Shadow could be bonded to a person: Potential Mistborn Spoilers If this is the case, then Mraize trying to get Shallan to use the dagger on Kalak takes an interesting turn. Could Shallan end up bonding Kalak instead? And what about Ishar? Edit: Another interesting quote:
  15. I just finished RoW and I loved it, one of my favourite of SA but the end made me so afraid. The contest of champions with the soul of Dalinar in game seemed bad idea against Rayse but with big T it looks even worse. I am literally sure they will loose, because how can they win against Odium champion? Dalinar has 4 options for fighting. Himself, Adolin, Szeth and Kaladin. We don’t know under which laws will be the fight (with investiture or without it ) but the problem is that Odium has under his forces one element that is unbalanced. What happen if Odium choose Nale as his champion? We watched what did Ishtar to 5 radiants, we looked how Nale knocked Szeth in seconds. How can any of the possible Dalinar champions stands against him?
  16. This is according to Ishar in what one presumes is a lucid moment of his, but the topic of this thread is about Renarin. It seems increasingly certain that Renarin can touch the Spiritual Realm. We see an example of this in his healing of Adolin in Oathbringer, Chapter 10: And also in Chapter 8 of Rhythm of War: Given that, and his precognition (which is -- you know -- a pretty big sign), I pose the following question: Can Renarin render the Heralds lucid by using his abilities near or on them?
  17. So, I have been thinking about the endpapers of Rhythm of War and I think that the Kalak and Pailiah ones are Alethi (or otherwise Vorin), the Chanarach one is Shin, and the Nale one is either Azish or Shin. My reasoning is that Kalak and Pailiah both fit into what I imagine the Vorin range of appearances to be, Pailiah has a covered safehand but an uncovered freehand, and they have the same artist. My reasoning on Chanarach is that she is very pale for a Rosharan, has round eyes, and has an uncovered safehand, plus, there are fairly Earthlike trees behind her. Nale has the same artist as Chanarach, has birds in the background, and while his eyes are closed they appear fairly round, which support shin, but his uniform also seems to fit what has been described as an azish uniform, and his background prominently features metallic spheres and domes, which we know are a major part of the architecture in Azimir, and presumably other Makabaki cities. So, does anyone else have any thoughts? Theories about the OB papers are welcome, too. Also, while this is in the RoW spoiler section, please avoid RoW spoilers, at least for now.
  18. So near the end of OB, we saw Jezrien getting stabbed and seemingly permanently killed. Many people wondered about the mechanism via which the knife worked and whether Jezrien was truly gone or had his soul captured so he couldn't reincarnate as Heralds were wont to do. The knife that Moash/Vyre used had a sapphire set into the pommel and the sapphire in question glowed during the deed. In the same book, we saw an Unmade getting trapped within a gemstone, so we knew that it was a strong possibility. People also noted the similarity with Hemalurgy. Of course people asked Brandon to confirm certain things: 1) Jezrien's soul was captured so it couldn't be reborn ( 2) The mechanism is similar to Hemalurgy ( , 3) Sapphire, which is specifically linked with Jezrien and the Windrunners, was used specifically against Jezrien here ( And in chapter 14, we are told that the Fused could also be captured in gemstones: “They imprisoned some of the Unmade in these, Leshwi,” Raboniel said. “How close do you think they are to discovering they could do the same for us? Can you imagine it? Forever imprisoned in a gemstone, locked away, able to think but unable to ever break free?” A) So, Jezrien could still be rescued, reminding y'all just in case you forgot all about him. But in which case, so could Moelach.... (And may I remind you, they just chucked the gemstone he was imprisoned in into the ocean. And may I also remind you that Nazh was capable of retrieving Shallan's sketchbook from the bottom of the ocean after her ship sank) Hmm, I wonder... how was Re-Shephir imprisoned back then by some historical Lightweaver? Was she also captured in a gemstone? How'd she get out? B ) This mechanism might work against other Cognitive entities. It works with spren, Unmade, Fused, Heralds, so it might also work with the Returned or Divine Breath, with Seon & Skaze, with Shades (is that how Nazh's Shade gun worked? Heyyyyy... firespren flamethrower, anyone?) C) Sapphire was used against Jezrien, so was the King's Drop targeted because of this? Odium did say he was seeing to it as an additional safeguard for something unlikely to happen or something like that, iirc (could someone check?). Was there more to the King's Drop than just being a perfect gemstone? D) If the mechanism is similar to Hemalurgy, what happens if you, you know, go through the entire process? After the stealing comes the grafting. What would happen if Vyre's knife is stabbed into someone again? Would Jezrien take over their body, Fused style or possession style? Would they get some of Jezrien's attributes?
  19. I apologize if this has been posted before, but I just had an interesting thought. There is reference to torture, but obviously and hinted and...This entire time, I’ve thought that, when sent to Braize, the Heralds were tortured by the fused. However, after doing some re-reading I have developed a theory that the Heralds were tortured by various members of the unmade. Is there any reference to the Fused being the ones who actually tortured the Heralds? I know there are some quotes by Ahu that directly call out several Unmade...thoughts?
  20. So, I just finished my oathbringer re-read and have come up with a theory about the heralds. oathbringer spoilers my theory is that the oathpact bound together the souls of the heralds, part of the reason is probably so that they could share the pain of torture, but also it is possible that this was also done to cement them together to the oathpact. Oathbringer spoilers. The second part of my theory is that Odium will use this to make/ replace the heralds, meaning that in order to stop the fused from returning after death, odium's new heralds would need to be dispatched. thoughts? Any Wob that make or break this theory, or any things that you can point out?
  21. This is essentially a continuation of my previous thread: tl;dr version of it: I believe that Near East mythology (Ugaritic Baal Cycle, specifically) predicts that Rayse and the Fused will be killed with Sja-anat's help by the end of Arc 1. Arc 2 will be about Odium reforming itself OK, we can start We know that the names of the Unmade come from Near East (mostly Canaanite) mythology (plus some Lovecraft). Imagine my surprise when I found out that the same applies to selected Heralds and the Sibling: Ishar – Ishara, originally a Canaanite love goddess, then turned into Hittite goddess of oaths, who punishes the oathbreakers. Quite a fitting connection, I would say Shalash – Shamash, Mesopotamian god of Sun and light. Once again quite a good match Jezrien – supreme god (depending on the culture: El, Anu, Amurru, Yahweh). His later name, Ahu, is (given the nature of the letter 'h') pretty much identical to Anu. I believe that the fact that his names typically start with Je-/Ya- is a link to Jehovah/Yahweh (plus he's also worshipped as the only god in Emul) The names of the other Heralds don't have mythological origin, as far as I can say, which makes sense in a way, as in the ancient Near East only royalty (Jezrien, Ash) and maybe high priests (Ishar) would use names associated with divinity. They all, however, share the suffix “'Elin” which seems to come from El, associated with Jezrien The Sibling – Ashur, who represents a deified form of the city of Assur – clearly the same concept as the Sibling and Urithiru Fun fact: staring from Ashur, we can find a nice chain of (probably Easter egg) connections scattered around the Stormlight books. Ashur appears in the name of one of the last Assyrian kins – Ashurbanipal (literally 'Ashur has given a son-heir') who happens to share some similarities with Dalinar: he was known as the king who could read and write (not a small feat, given the complexity of cuneiform and ancient Summerian and Akkadian) he lost his lands in the West, but gained new in the East his capital, Nineveh, had the largest library of ancient knowledge at the time (similar to Urithiru) and was prophesied in the Bible to be completely destroyed (similar to the fate of Kholinar in Almighty's visions) the prophecy from the previous point was made by the prophet Jonah, who was, according to Bible, swallowed by a giant fish at one point – something weirdly similar to what happens to Hoid and a greatshell, as described by Lift Given all that, I can see two interesting theories/implications: The Unmade are Odium's Heralds/Honorblades: I have assumed for a long time that the Unmade would be the Bondsmith godspren (or maybe Truthwatcher godspren) for Voidbinding, but in the light of the new evidence I believe they are the equivalent of the Heralds instead. It makes sense: they are superpowered beings using their Shard's power on a hostile Shard's territory, trying not to get captured. They are also not exactly efficient – Yelig-nar uses his hosts up rather quickly, as the Honorblades use Stormlight The new, evil Oathpact As I wrote above, I believe that Arc 2 will include reforming Odium. We know that: there is no Unmade corresponding to the Order of Bondsmiths Ishar is a crazy, egomaniac Bondsmith who possibly wants the death of all mankind Arc 2 will be about figuring out the Oathpact Based on that, a possible mechanism of Odium's return is a new, evil Oathpact on Roshar - one between Ishar and the Unmade. It could be enough for Ishar to Ascend and bring Voidbinding (10-based, Voidspren bond based magic system) to Roshar – essentially a twisted version of what Dalinar tries to achieve with Honor and the KR in Arc 1
  22. Intro The Heralds, as we all know, were once normal men & women who were offered the chance to become something greater by Honor. They were granted the Honorblades, allowing them each the use of two Surges, along with other abilities. Upon death, the Heralds are returned to Braize to endure torture until one of their number breaks, which initiates another Desolation. We know that during the first few Desolations, many hundreds or thousands of years would have passed between the last time the Heralds returned to Roshar. Often, the Heralds would have to progress society rapidly in order to get them prepared for the coming war. This alone would have most likely been enough to convince many of the Herald's divine nature, however I suspect others would need a more direct demonstration. The Heralds have two distinct advantages when it comes to feats of unnatural power: First, the Heralds were directly powered by Honor. This means that they did not need to rely on stormlight stored in gems, and also implies that they would be able to use a greater amount of stormlight at once than a regular Radiant. Second, the Heralds occasionally swapped Honorblades. Additionally, it is possible to wield more than one Honorblade at once. My proposition is that this mixing of Surges greatly influenced the deification of the Heralds, due to the miraculous feats they could achieve, beyond that of a normal Surgebinder or even a Knight Radiant. Allow me to present some examples. The Surge of Transportation Jasnah, an Elsecaller, uses her Surge of Transportation to Soulcast from a distance, without physically touching the object she is changing. I believe this application of Transportation would apply to any of the Surges that usually require touch, such as Cohesion, Adhesion, or Regrowth . . . This is actually an incorrect assumption, please disregard along with the following example. But my ultimate point about mixing Surges still stands, damnation it! Transportation & Progression Regrowth is a powerful application of the Surge of Progression that allows healing and even resuscitation, but is limited to the user physically touching the recipient. However, let us imagine that the Herald Vedel (Progression & Abrasion) borrowed her Honorblade to the Herald Battar (Transformation & Transportation), allowing the latter to use both Honorblades at once. This, along with presumably unlimited Stormlight provided by Honor, would allow Battar to heal many people remotely. She could perhaps heal an entire army at once this way. Adhesion & Abrasion Adhesion, a Surge that sticks things together, and Abrasion, a Surge that can be used to ignite and degrade matter, including humans. Perhaps a Herald wielding these two Surges could stick many enemy's feet to the ground at once, locking them in place, and then use Division to set the ground alight. There are many different applications of these mismatched Surges, and I believe that these incredible feats of power (along with the Herald's normal prodigious use of the Honorblades) greatly contributed to their staying power in the minds of the people of Roshar. I would love to hear your ideas on the different ways the Surges could be combined in non-organic ways (that is, combinations that do not currently exist in the Radiant Orders). As always, thank you for reading, and I hope that you had to google apotheosis, a fun new word I learned today while researching this topic
  23. We know what starts a desolation: Heralds returning to Roshar or staying on Roshar for too long. We have no similar idea when it ends. Yet the heralds knew. The present desolation has one new feature in the form of the Everstorm. In past desolations killed Fused would return in the next desolation only. So who has which interests after it is sufficiently clear who will win? Let's look at the actors: The Heralds They really do not want a desolation to formally end. For them the best possible world would be one where they do little to no fighting, but are allowed to stay on Roshar. The distinctions is important. They want to win the war, but not end it. A bit like mercenaries. The living Fused That depends on patriotism. From an individual biew point being alive on Roshar looks better than ghosting around on Braize. They might continue some kind of guerilla. If you want the SIngers to prosper, the next Desolation cannot come soon enough. The dead Fused They want the next desolation. For that the Heralds have to break. For them to break they need to be tortured. For them to be tortured they must be forced to return to Braize. If there is no longer a realistic chance of winning, it is better to give up and try again. The sooner, the better. Odium His view is likely close to a dead Fused. As soon as his forces are defeated and have done all the damage they can reasonably do on Roshar, it is better to withdraw for the next round to come quickly . Where does this leave us in terms of strategy? I am afraid I now need to ask you to liberate your inner psychopath and drop all hints of ethics. Let me look at Odium. After the first few desolations he has understood that he is in a war of attrition. Hence he will shift his focus from the field forces of Honor's troops to the population, as soon as he is losing. While you are winning captured population is good. They will make your supplies, perhaps you can even press some of them into your service. But you lost all prior desolations. You need to prepare to lose this one and be ready to switch. First you want to destroy any institutions that keep civilization working: hospitals, places of learning, port facilities, ship yards, mines, mills, forges ... But at some point this runs into diminishing returns. Then your next target become the people itself. If there are fewer Rosharans, you will face fewer soldiers the next time. And they will have a harder time getting civilisation running again. So whom do you target? Women and children, especially older girls. The factor (food aside) that sets a limit to the growth of a mammalian population is the availability of fertile females. Hence women and older girls (younger girls is not so good, because child mortality, which will be high, as you are confiscating food, would render a part of your job futile). Disgusting, but wars are not nice. Your enemy will try to stop you by means of fortifications. Warfare is sieges and assaults on fortresses, followed by a dash to catch retreating forces, then surpressing the people of the area you took. And once you are being beaten back, you slaughter civillians. And once you are beaten so much that the damage you do is no longer worth the time you are giving the Heralds, you retreat to Braize to start over. So, what, mechanically speaking, ends a desolation and forces the Heralds back to Braize? I have three candidates: The number of Fused on Roshar is getting too low (It cannot be zero or the Heralds would have tried capturing some, bashing their heads in and keeping them alive in a coma with Progression - yes, war is gruesome.) Fused cease to come to Roshar (This is unlikely, as it would allow the Fused to come, keep running and make Heralds return, leaving the Rosharans alone to fight. And you are not going to catch all armies of flying Fused) Odium turns off the tap of Voidlight - I think that is really the end of a desolation (and I would speculate that that was the reason Gavilar acquired spheres of Voidlight for experiments) The most important conclusion I am drawing is that the Heralds don't end a desolation. Odium does so, forced but deliberately.
  24. The first thing I would like the point out is that, this is something that came to my mind this morning when I was unable to sleep due to the heat in the UK at the moment, it could be very flawed and I could have had many things really muddled up. But, with everyones input and thoughts, I am sure more sense could be made out of this. Outside of the books, I must admit I am unsure with how much has been revealed from Sanderson himself, most of this could be unproven or thrown under the rug, but I think it's intersting. So, I have a theory about the Unmade, The Heralds and Honorblades. Basically, the history of the Unmade is very cloudy and in modern Roshar, their history is largely unknown. Some sources claimed there was 10 but it is generally assumed that there are 9. This I think is very interesting and quite important. There are 10 heralds, and only 9 Unmade (but there could be 10, see what I am getting at?). Ever since the Oathpact was abandoned, only 1 herald went to Braize, being Taln. This means there are 9 Heralds left on Roshar, incidentally there are 9 Unmade. I think there is a link there… I do believe that there are 10 Unmade, and even though sources indicate that they have existed on Roshar since before the Desolations, I debate how true this is (backed up by the clouded history). I think, in previous Desolations when the Heralds were trapped on Braize, they were being tormented and fighting against a specific Unmade (one per Herald, and its Voidspren). After the Oathpact was broken, and only Taln went to Braize, his Unmade went with him. Thus, 9 Unmade were on Roshar with the 9 Heralds, and 1 on Braize with Taln. [Off topic I thought of in my edit, but, the Unmade could be Odiums ‘Heralds’. We have seen the Fused use surges, maybe there are different types of Voidspren, similar to the different Spren needed for each order of Radiants: Honorspren, Cryptics, etc.] For whatever reason, the Voidspren remain trapped on Braize as long as one Herald and Unmade are present. (This I can’t seem to find a logical reason for, but I think it is important, something about a Herald being on Braize keeps them trapped, even if it is one Herald.) After Taln had given in, and returned to Roshar, everything on Braize was freed. Thus, the coming of the True Desolation. This also means I think a 10th Unmade has come to Roshar, one that has been ignored. (this backing up some sources from history that claim there were 10). This was the first thing I have been thinking on. Secondly, Moash and Honorblades. Moash killed Jezrien in a way that is unlike that in history, when a Herald got killed in history, they seemed to return to Braize, however, Moash killed Jezrian with a knife that contained a gemstone. I think Odium has been cunning in his planning. 4500 years had passed since the last Desolation, the longest time in history; this is A LOT of planning time. We don’t know much about the creation of Honorblades, and we know Shardblades are Spren that mimicked Radiant surges, but Honorblades are said to be a type of Splinter of Honor. I think however, Odium has found ways to create an Honorblade out of the Herald itself. This would be interesting, if the gemstone in the dagger Moash used has bound the herald, (also confirming this death being ‘different’), then perhaps that gemstone can be used to create a new Honorblade. And this could have interesting implications, imagine if his new Honorblade/Heraldblade?, allowed the wielder to become to new head of that order of Radiant. Imagine if, it actually allowed them to manipulate and ‘control’ the knights under that order; it would really mess up Dalinar’s plans. I feel like Moash will also be the first person to wield this. I find it too strange the Jezrien (being the order of windrunners, thus Kaladin, Moash’s ‘friend’) is the first Herald to be killed in this way. If a new kind of power is created from Jezrien, and Moash wields it, then, he could take control of the Windrunners, and if he is able to somehow influence them, he could turn them against Dalinar. And Moash being Moash, will probably try to convince Kaladin that this is the ‘right’ thing to do. Ironically, this could be what leads to Kaladin debating breaking his oaths, as what Syl and the Stormfather have been promising would happen, but this time, in a way that is ‘different’ to The Day of Recreance. Since this is the True Desolation, it would make more sense that things would turn out differently to how they have in the past, ESPECIALLY with this additional time Odium has had to plan.
  25. We know very little about the Heralds before the Proving Day. As far as concerned, Spren look for humans whose personal values, moral code and personality matches the most with the Heralds. According to the legends, the first and biggest concern of Heralds was protection of humanity, they would defend but also teach mankind. I'm not even a it inclined to believe they were all soldiers. With that in mind, who exactly were these men and women before they become cognitive shadows? 1) Jezrien Herald of Kings, he was probably born in Ashyn. According to the madman's words "and Jezrien . . . he will teach you leadership". It makes me wonders if Jezrien wasn't in fact a King from start. I actually believe he was a commoner, if not, he was at best a highborn, but not a king. Jezrien was a soldier, a general, he was the one who take the leader after the long travel to Roshar. If he become a King, it was after human society . 2) Nale Herald of Justice, in Ashyn Nale was a constable. In Roshar, he worked as a Magister. I'm supposing based on their Azish title "Nakke, the judge". It matches with his order shared values, put the laws above everything else, and also with his personality. 3) Chanarach Very few is know about her, probably the Herald we know the least. At first I used to think she was an assassin as her order is know by the erratic and destructive members. The words Stormfather use to describe Taln were he was the only who wasn't king, scholar or general. It makes me think Chanarach was in a power and prestigious position. Her divine attributes being Bravery and Obedience makes me think she became a General after her life as an Assassin in Ashyn. 4) Vedel Pretty easy one. According to Taln words "Vedel can train your surgeons", her Radian Order members are infused with healing surgebinding and her divine attributes are love and heal, giving very little space to disprove: She was a Scholar and Physician. 5) Pailiah Matron of Truthwacthers, there is very few we know about her but it's clar she was a Scholar though it's not clear what was her foremost subject of study. Palanaeum was named after her, implying she was probably the most prominent learned Herald. But I'm going further and believing Pailiah was an actual Oracle, whether hes clairvoyant powers were true or false is questionable, but the fact Truthwatchers were considered to be esoteric it just makes my theory stronger 6) Shalash Herald of beauty and Lady of Dreams, not only a princess Ash was an artist. I'm basing this hypothesis mostly on one thing: Her symbolic destruction of her own artistic depictions. I actually don't quite believe she was trying to hide herself, each civilization are used to portray Heralds of members of their own civilization and how could they ever imagine how Ash would look alike. Ash was destroying her Art because she was ashamed, arts were the most important things on her life she just feels she's no longer deserving to have any piece of art in her name. 7) Battar Like most of her radiants, the Herald of Elsecallers was an scholar. I won't say a word if she is Dova or not, so I'm basing my thoughts of what she was really on her orders Spren. It's a very well know fact Elsecallers were the true masters of cognitive realm, forming the highest liason with the greatest spren in Shadesmar. That's, combined with her divine atributes of caring and wisdom, make me feel she was a diplomat. Battar was one of the fewest Heralds who actually tried to make peace with Singers, rather than conquered them and was chosen a Herald because Honor wanted individuals who didn't seek for Singers destruction, but for humanity protection. 8) Kalak I believe he's the second youngest Herald. We had a POV of him, but after millennia or war and torture we only knew he was a depressive and neurotic individual. As Taln says "Kalak will teach you to cast bronze, if you have forgotten this" makes me feel Kalak was a Contractor, a Master Builder and an Engineer. 9) Taln The only commoner among the Heralds, the Herald of War was just a mid-tier soldier and a swordmaster with a steel willpower. According to himself "I will train your soldiers". He was chosen because of his dependable personality and teaching skills. 10) Ishar Blinder of Gods, Ishar was a Sage and a Priest of Honor even before Ashyn's destruction, when humanity still worshipped Odium. Ishar was the one who looked for Honor and ask for Mercy for his own kind, which Honor promptly granted after Ashyn's exodus. That's long-term relationship between Isha and Honor was what make him the highest Herald and the one who Holds the biggest powers. In Roshar humanity looked for him when they needed guide and to listen Honor's worlds. TL;DR Jezrien - A Soldier who became a King after the destruction of Ashyn Nale - A constable who became a Magister Chanarach - An Assassin who turned to be a General Vedel - A Surgeon Scholar Pailiah - An Oracle Scholar Shalash - An Artist Princess Battar - A Diplomat Scholar Kalak - A Build Master Talenel - A Swordmaster and Combat Teatcher Ishar - A Honor's Sage