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Found 167 results

  1. <Mistborn Spoilers> This (trapping a shard for a period of time) however, isn't a unique occurrence in the Cosmere. Honor used the Oathpact to limit Odium's influence on Roshar. What I'm proposing is that what Tarnavast did to Rayse is the same thing that Leras did to Ati, using cognitive force concentrated in a physical form to hold the power of a shard, however instead of using his own cognitive aspect, he used 10 Heralds instead. Every 1024 years the well of ascension would fill with investiture, what I'm saying is the sort of outlet to Ati's power, stopping the whole system from breaking by using the excess. Tarnavast however, didn't create such a system, and instead used humans (shored up with a little of his own power) to prevent Rayse from escaping his prison. Since humans work different to Shards however, the Heralds had to physically be at the site of the prison, and so could be broken by Odium (creating the Desolations).
  2. TLDR: Ishar has always been nuts and Nale is right he survived with his mind just as it has always been. For some reason Nale and Ash both think that Ishar is the only one of them that has not gone insane. Nale even tells Szeth at the end of OB that "Only Ishar survived <the torture> with his mind intact". Everyone assumes the Heralds are just misguided and blindly trusting one of their leading thinkers and scholars. But what if they are not wrong? What if they've been right all along and Ishar has survived with mind intact? What if Ishar has always been a megalomaniacal psychopathic bastard?! It was his idea to ditch Taln. It was his idea to put rules on the Radiants, but maybe it was out of jealousy of their growing power displacing him as a deity. With the destruction of Ashyn they knew very well the dangers of surgebinding. What took them several Desolations to realize precautions were required, if that was in fact the reasoning for formalizing the Orders. Look at the endpage art of him Any takers on this nonsense? =) Just trying to shake things up with a different angle.
  3. I can't remember if that was emphatically stated or not. I only remember Ash holding his hand and the emotion of that scene in the tent. Were (are?) they romantically inclined? Kinda hard when half the party is mad, I know
  4. Questions about the Cognitive Realm… Ok, I maybe taking this to a slightly fanatical level, but dammit I have soul wrenching questions here! So pick a few and discuss. Please. Or dredge up a few WoB's for my education! Thank you. Do ALL humans look like flames in the CR? What do Parshendi look like? What do Radiants look like? Do they still look like flames? Do they look an amalgam of their spren and a flame? What do Elsecallers look like? If an Elsecaller soulcasts an object (cognitively enters the CR), what does she look like while doing so? Does she look like an insubstantial version of her physical self? If so did her 'flame' change to look like her? Does she look like herself but outlined in flames? Does she look like a blend of herself and her spen? Does both herself and her spren appear in the CR? If an Elsecaller transports to the CR physically, does her flame suddenly transform into her? Or is it surrounded by stormlight and then she appears where her flame was? When you encounter a location in the CR where a village or city of sentients are in the PR are all of the flames about the same level above the beads in the CR? When humans are in a multilevel structure in the PR, are their flames floating higher above the beads than when they're at ground level in the PR? If the flames ARE NOT floating at different levels then what happens if one human is directly above another in the PR? Do the flames superimpose over one another in the CR? Are the Heralds visible in the cognitive realm? What do they look like? Can a herald/radiants cognitive appearance be attacked in the CR? If they are FULLY in the physical realm, why aren’t they metal, like the spren? Do the spren need to eat? (Their version of it anyway) If so, what do the spren eat? Are they simply ‘refreshed’ everytime there is a highstorm? Or do they consume something from human emotions? Or do the physical spren use the highstorm and the emotion spren use sentients? How do higher spren use stormlight as an exchange medium? Yes they use perfect gems for storage, but what about additional stormlight? With the closure of the oathgates and people forgetting where cultivation's perpendicularity is located, getting new amounts of stormlight in the CR is difficult at best. And there was no evidence of gems recharging in the CR. Or is it as if they're using the gold standard and have been doing so with a static supply of stormlight for a very long time? And if that's the case, then how do you account for spren such as cultivation spren using up the stormlight supply to manifest objects in the CR? Wouldn't they be having a shortage after such a long time? How do lower spren navigate the sea of beads? When an anticipation spren wants to get near a nervous human that is in the center the Rosharan supercontinent in the PR, how does the spren move through the ocean of beads to get near him? What keeps them from sinking to the bottom, just as physical humans do? True they don't need to breath, but they do need some way of maneuvering presumably.
  5. So am I correct is believing that we still do not have a conclusive answer on what ends a particular desolation. Obviously the Heralds returning to Braize is the true end but when do they decide that a desolation is won. The only thing I can think of is when they have "killed" all of the fused, but that doesn't make sense as it it implied by Kalak's prelude that desolations would end with a (often closely fought) final battle that the heralds could predict would be the final battle before hand. (shown by the heralds having a pre-set meeting place for after the battle to start the return to Braize) Given the powers of the fused it seems that even if they lost a battle they would be very easy for some of them to just fly off and hide preventing the end of the desolation. But if it is not the fused, then what is it? Tib
  6. When Stormfather told Dalinar about the Honorblades , he said “ with it you became a Windrunner Un-oathed , and more ...” I always wondered what he meant by that . Are thier more powers it grants that we haven’t seen ? Then I thought of the creatures the Heralds fought during desolations , Thunderclast , midnight essences , etc . I further thought of how the spren copied what they saw the Heralds doing. So I wonder can the Heralds when they have thier Honorblades produce plate . Without it they could be taken out fairly easily by 3 or 4 Fused attacking in concert . If they have a Thinderclast or unmade in the vicinity it would be even easier to kill one . If they had plate however , they couldn’t be laShed and wouldn’t be susceptible to any of the influence of the unmade surges . With thier experience it would give pause to even 10 Fused to attack one. When Honor was alive he supplied them with stormlight so they would really be scary to Fused having that much power at thier fingertips. What do you think ? Plate or no plate?
  7. Okay so I've been thinking about this a lot. This is a fairly general theory that I might expand on in the future with book references and quotes but I wanted to get the basic idea of it out there and see what people think. My basic expectation is something along the lines of this: At the end of book 5, Dalinar will learn of a method to take up the shard of Honor and do so. Upon doing so he will endeavor to form a new Oathpact. That oathpact will be with Kaladin and perhaps others. Reasoning: Kaladin has, from the very beginning been a tortured soul, and his pain always comes from protecting others or failing to protect them. This is a very Herald-like quality The first Herald to be eliminated by Odium just so happens to be the patron of Kaladin's order, The Windrunners. If a replacement were ever needed, Kaladin is a perfect fit. Dalinar's connection to the Stormfather and his incredible abilities as of Oathbringer give him a special link to Honor's power. There will be a 20 year gap between book 5 and book 6. What would account for that gap? Kaladin forming an Oathpact and going to Braize in order to give time to his allies in preparation for Odiums eventual return. I'd like to hear people input on this, for and against. I'll give it some more thought and eventually formulate a full fledged theory based on what we come up with.
  8. As the Cosmere gets bigger we start to see similarities on different Pllanets in the Cosmere. Two of them have made shardblades. One thing that next popped out to me is that several planets have some form of cognitive shadow that is persistent . Roshar have Heralds and the Fused . Sel has Elantrians. Nalthis has The Returned . I’m not sure if the Shades on Threnody are Cognitive shadows but anyways . I’m seeing a pattern . I’m thinking the shards need some type of Cognitive shadow to serve as Agents on the planet . So I’m asking what are the Cognitive Shadows on Scadrial . At first I thought it was the mist wraiths . They would preservations Form of shadow . But knowing what a cognitive shadow is I know it can’t be the mistwraiths . They were never alive as a person and came back to life . Then I wondered if steel inquisitors were. Again same problem . They never died and came back .the only person that has died and came back was Kelsier. And one doesn’t equal enough to be a system . It’s just one irregularity .So can you guys speculate with m . Does it seem that every planet has a type of cognitive shadow ? And if so what is the cognitive shadow on Scadrial
  9. In OB, when Moash kills Jezerien, on a recent reread of OB, i noticed that ShallAsh cries out, OH GOD! OH ADONALSIUM! This makes me wonder, why would a herald cry out in the name of Adonalsium? not Honour? or Almighty? even Cultivation may be. But Adonalsium? Did the Heralds worship Adonalsium? Does that mean they followed a pre-shattering religion? or could it mean that they were alive pre-shattering? How old exactly were these heralds at the time of forming the Oathpact? How much time was there between shattering and forming the Oathpact? It can not be within a single lifetime. Even human exodus from Ashyn and settlement on Roshar and then first desolation, forming of fused by odium and forming of Oathpact with honor, all these events in totality, should have taken a long time, atleast a 100 years if not more, but still we know from wobs, that heralds came from Ashyn. Again, how old were these heralds? I always thought that they became Immortal after the oathpact, since they are basically cognitive shadows, but now i am wondering if they were already immortal when they came from Ashyn? Because that could explain a lot here. Were they surgebinders who destroyed the planet? hence, they were made to leave? So had that surgebinding granted immortality too? I am all too confused here. any thoughts guys, please share...
  10. Did the Heralds have Shardplate?
  11. According to the Stormfather in Oathbringer, even before the Fused got Surges, they were unbeatable because they just kept reincarnating, which necessitated the whole Oathpact thing - the Heralds had to go to Braize forever (which unfortunately turned into being tortured) to lock away the Fused, since they just couldn't kill them. But the Fused are Cognitive Shadows, and we've seen plenty of Cognitive Shadows killed on other planets (Warbreaker/Arcanum Unbounded spoilers). And we know that Nightblood "destroys on all three Realms", and there's a WOB that a Shardblade could kill a spren. With the amount of power Honor could give the Heralds, why wasn't there a way to kill the Fused? Hmmm... actually... is Nightblood the first thing Roshar's seen that actually can permanently kill them? Szeth might be even more important than we thought...
  12. I've seen a bunch of discussions on things like this, and people pretty much always have decided that the fullborn would win against people from other magic systems. I do agree that the power of a fullborn are ridiculously overpowered with compounding, but against a herald, the balance could change, as the heralds can be reborn. The reason that this wasn't used in their battles was that they had to stay on Braize to prevent the desolation, while in a fight like this, we could say that they would immediately decide to come back. With this distinction, the fullborn would not be able to kill the herald, while someone at the 10th heightening could create a nightblood2.0 that would be able to kill the herald (although it will feed on their breaths during the usage). Since Nale is the only herald who currently has access to surgebinding, I'd say that he's the herald to put in this fight--of course assuming that he has legal permission. I'd also assume, that for the sake of the fight, the three contestants should be aware of each others abilities. So, who would win: Fullborn(with access to all 16 metals and a coin pouch), Nale(who can be reborn and is a 5th Ideal Skybreaker, with access to a pouch or two of stormlight-infused spheres), or Awakener(who is at the 10th heightening and has assorting things with him to awaken)
  13. So I have been thinking a lot about how the surgebinders destroyed their previous planet . And the overall fear that they will do the same to Roshar. The only character we have seen who has been surgebinding for years is Szeth. Other than him we have shallan we have shallan who has forgotten much of what she has done . And perhaps some unnamed Skybreakers who we have no POV to judge from. But Szeth is clearly insane . What if it’s not him being abused as a truth less that drove him to insanity ? But his prolonged use of surgebinding that drove Szeth to insanity ? Thoughts ?
  14. *Note I haven't posted a whole lot and don't know how to hide spoilers. So warning Spoilers If I remember correctly there is a WoB that all the heralds were at the palace during the night of Gavilar's assassination. So we of course know about Jezrin and Ash being there for sure as of Oathbringer. What about the other heralds? Is Liss possibly a herald? Or were they all background?
  15. In Secret History, and alluded to in Era 2, we find that Kelsier held preservation between the death of Leras and the ascension of Vin. He was able to do so because of IRE magical equipment, but he was not able to fully hold it like a living person could have, and so he was much more limited than Vin, just barely able to delay Ruin no matter what he did, while Vin was able, at the cost of her own life, to kill Ati and leave both Preservation and Ruin unheld. Was Kelsier so limited because he no longer a regular living being, but a cognitive shadow, or because he was not grounded in the Physical realm before taking up the shard? Like, if Kelsier had taken up preservation AFTER getting grounded in the physical realm again, could he have fully held it? The Heralds are also incarnate cognitive shadows who were once living humans, but until Oathbringer, every time they died, they reincarnated. When incarnate, could the heralds have taken up a shard fully, or would they have been limited like Kelsier was?
  16. In OB did we see any skybreakers mention having shardplate or getting shardplate ?
  17. I’m not sure if I believe my own theory, but I wanna tell you the theory anyway. So when Dalinar summons Honor’s perpendicularity after everyone is there he counts them because he expects there to be 10. At first he counts 7 (himself, Kaladin, Shallan, Renarin, Jasnah, Lift, and Szeth), but the Stormfather points out 2 more, who he then points out are Heralds (Taln, and Ash). That puts it at 9. He wonders where the 10th is, but we know that Venli was nearby. This makes it so every Order has a representative except for the Dustbringers (Malata is gone with Teravangian), and the Lightweavers have 2 (Shallan and Ash). The thing is that while Taln and Nale both certainly still fit their corresponding Orders, Ash does not. She’s spent centuries destroying art, particularly all art referencing herself. So if she were to become a Radiant now, I don’t think she would be a Lightweaver. We don’t see much of her, but from what we’ve seen I’d say the Order she’d fit best with now would be the Dustbringers, which happens to be the one Order otherwise unrepresented at that scene. Just thought it was an interesting thought.
  18. Dalinar and co. have been discussing the Heralds as a possible resource in fighting the Voidbringers. I think this idea is hella cool, and it would totally add sauce to the story, but... Taln is mad. Ash is kinda mad, or at least horribly depressed and wants nothing to do with humanity. Nale is bordering sociopathic. Ishar is...somewhere in Emul, I think? Trying to conquer it in some crazy war, which seems the mark of a madman to me, despite what Ashyn says to the contrary. Moash killed Jezrien, and it seems like he intends to do more. I don't know where the other Heralds are, but the Desolation is back and they're choosing to remain hidden, so...
  19. I'm now on my third trip through the Stormlight books, I realized that on the night of Gavilar's assassination, at the party, Szeth walks by an old man he thinks is drunk... But it's actually Jezrien himself!!!!!!! He says the same thing at the end of Oathbringer before Moash kills him. An Easter-egg across 3 books... nice
  20. 1. Why was Jasnah in the market and why did she have drawings of the Heralds? Also, did Shallan draw them? 2. Who is the "Midius" Ash mentions in reference to Jasnah's sketches 3. When Taln told Ash to follow him, he said someone was waiting for them. Who? Subquestion: It seemed like he lost lucidity in the middle of leading Ash, and then that whole thing with Jezrien dying happened. (Seriously, Brandon, are you trying to ruin my solid thug-life rep? Second time I teared up reading this book.)
  21. Now that Heralds can be permanently killed, does Jasnah need to change her plans? Her plan to forcibly return the Heralds to Damnation depends on Odium being unable to just kill Heralds. Given that they can return to Roshar if they so wish, risking them being killed permanently for a brief respite just does not look like a rational move anymore. What strategies does this leave the Knights Radiant with?
  22. Hello! Fairly new to the Shard and this is my first post. I apologize if this topic has been covered but I searched and couldn't find a direct answer. I have recently finished my third listen of Oathbringer and started thinking about greater implications of Odium's creepy new dagger. If Ishar is killed (for real) by this dagger, will the requirement of Oaths become removed from the nahel bond? Since Honor is dead, it seems like the rules of being a Radiant are already starting to flex and bend more and more, what with the Skybreakers literally fighting for Odium, or Malata and her very anti-social spren who seem largely intent on destruction for its own sake. However, it seems like the first Oath is still required for the bond to form, regardless of the difference of other higher Oaths. Since Ishar was the one who decided to implement the Knights Radiant and lay down this codification of Oaths, would his death lead to the relaxation of this requirement? Would we get the problems on Roshar that Nohadon speaks of in Dalinar's flashbacks, with surgebinders that can bond spren in a more private contract between just the two of them, allowing someone who is less-than-nice to wield great powers? Would this in turn actually cause the destruction of Roshar - as feared by Honor in his last days - due to surgebinding? It seems like Honorspren have always largely been rather strict with their bonded human partners, but I get the sense other spren wouldn't be nearly so choosy or demanding unless they had to be. And if Ishar isn't the one holding the collective Radiant spren to the necessity of Oaths, then what is? I get the impression that the spren aren't exactly all in a unanimous vote with one another about most things. What else, aside from divine/semi-divine will, could cause all of them to agree on Oath requirements? The other option could, of course, be that Cultivation would hold everyone to the Oaths regardless of Ishar living or not, but she's so mysterious and rarely seems interested in interfering with humans in a large, authoritative oversight kind of way. I'm really hoping one or more of you clever people have some answers or ideas!
  23. Okay so when I was re-reading Oathbringer again I paused when I read Chapter 88 voices. In this chapter it's a flashback where dalinar is talking about how he needs to drink (the first chapter we see dalinar turns to spirits) and he eventually goes out to find a beggar named Ahu. Ahu is drinking and talking about the voices and how they are made. He seems to know a lot about how the spiritual aspect of the screams that dalinar (and szeth) hear. Then he mentions 4 of the unmade and says "Moelach is close. I can hear his wheezing, his scratching, his scraping at time like a rat breaking thourgh walls." Why the heck does this random beggar know so much. And why can he track and even hear where Moelach (the thrill) is? Is it just another mad man whose mind is more open to the cognitive realm as we see in MSH. Or is Ahu some kind of herald that was pausing in Kholinar. And if so which one. I'd love to hear you thoughts!
  24. I know Dova has been covered before, but I didn't find a thread that reconciled all the information we have. I really think Dova is Pailiah. At the end of Oathbringer, when Taravangian is "confessing" to Dalinar he says that an ardent, Dova, came to him and warned him of the desolation coming. Mr. T says he suspects she is a Herald, Battah'Elin. But we have a WoB: Pailiah She has made an appearance as "the old ardent in the Palanaeum".[3] They're both pretending to be ardents in the same library? Granted it's a BIG library and Dova probably spends most of her time in the secret kill rooms, not the library. But could Mr. T be wrong or lying about which Herald she is? Dova is not identified on screen by name. There is a Silent Gatherer writing down a death rattle at the end of WoK when Szeth visits Mr. T, but she is not described at all physically. We don't know if Dova is "old" looking or not. Now we know Mr. T is lying to Dalinar about how he found out about the impending desolation and he's lying about when Dova joined the Diagram. She joined after she figured out they were killing people to get the death rattles and offered to help. The Diagram was already off and running. (Good luck with killing her, idiot) Mr. T found out about the impending desolation because Gavilar told him about the visions he was getting and his task to unite the world. Very minor reference in the interlude where Dova is discussed. Could be a little clue, Pailiah is referred to, but Battar is not. I think it fits more for Pailiah, the Herald of the Truthwatchers, to be the one in the secret hospital killing poor and family-less patients. Truthwatchers have regrowth and the truthwatchers we've met like Ym and Stump were healing the poor and family-less for free. From what we've seen of the Heralds who abandoned their oaths their madness often is a perversion or inversion of what they were supposed to stand for. Shallash Herald of Beauty and Art destroys art now, Nale of Justice twists the law to allow him to kill people he already wants to kill for other reasons. And so on. Pailiah being Dova fits that inversion well. As to why Mr. T said he thinks she's Battah'Elin, maybe he really thinks she is. As shown above she came to him after he had his day of singular brilliance, so maybe he figured out she was a Herald, but was wrong about which one she actually is. He could be lying, but that's an odd lie. Unless it's something Pailiah / Dova asked him to lie about. The Truthwatcher Herald asking people to tell lies. Maybe there are two Heralds at the library, maybe they both really like reading. Battar is the Elsecaller Herald, maybe she's scholarly like Jasnah. As for Pailiah: "The Palanaeum was named for Pailiah the Herald. In fact, it was named based off the Greek word "Athenaeum".[5]"
  25. Unmade Origins Most people probably already know this but Unmade are named after deities of the ancient near east, they also have some linguistic connections to Urdu/Hindi languages: While this might not hold any significance i believe this isn't a mere coincidence, they are ancient godspren. I find this quote particularly interesting, it depicts Unmade as related to human emotions, not people, not parshmen. This connection might suggest that Unmade share their origin with humanity - the devastated world of Ashyn. Just as Stormfather embodies Highstorm or Nightwatcher - Transformation, Unmade would personify forces which shaped the world itself - powerful emotions that defined life on Ashyn. At first, i considered each one to represent particular Vice, like Wrath or Gluttony, but there's much more to them: They are not inherently good or evil, they are both, Vices and Virtues depending on one's perception. Each Unmade embodies the whole spectrum of a particular passion, just like Nergaoul personifies will to fight, some could interpret it as desire to protect, others to conquer. Divine Attributes We all know that each Order has set of Divine Attributes linked with it, apparently, they are somehow connected to the Unmade. I assume every Radiant has innate Virtue/Vice, related to Divine Attributes. A secondary surge of each order is considered dangerous. This is something that is mentioned over and over, Jasnah warns Shallan about Transformation, Nale says roughly the same thing to Szeth about Division, etc. Obviously, it's not relevant to the nature of power itself, because adjacent order gets it as their primary surge. Philosophically virtue is an elusive concept, it demands careful and sustained reflection before it can become part of one's life. Radiants seem to share this view, giving the nature of their Oaths. Pursuing a Virtue blindly and failing to understand it, might turn it into a Vice. Perhaps danger associated with the second surge, is related to twisting an ideal into something bad, possibly exposing Radiant to an Unmade/Odium? Virtue lies in Divine Attribute linked with corresponding Order. For example, Windrunners exhibit will to Protect people and show great capabilities in Leading them. Their attitude/perception makes the concepts of Leading/Protecting easy to grasp and comes naturally to them. Vice, on the other hand, is related to Attributes of adjacent Order. Windrunners or at least Kaladin, struggle with the idea of Justice. Kal view of this ideal is distorted, he takes it personally and allows emotions to cloud his judgment, his attempt at being righteous almost killed Syl. On a side note, Jezrien translates to "the Judge" in urdu, coincidence? While Moash still shows the attitude of a Windrunner through his desire to protect Parshmen, he contorted Just into Vengeful and led him to Odium. Similarly, Szeth stumblings revolve around being blindly obedient and not brave enough to challenge his masters. He mustered the courage to defy Nale and escaped Odium grasp as opposite to the rest of Skybreakers. If my assumptions are correct there is no Unmade related to Pious/Guiding attributes. I hate to poke a hole in Talenel's immaculate image but he remained unbroken simply because there is no Unmade corresponding to his Vice, not his unbreakable will. This gives at least some semblance to Heralds idea that he could handle tortures indefinitely, i assume they would need more substantial argument than just Taln being stubborn and blessed with strong willpower. Keep in mind that this not means being immune to influence of the other Unmade. Another piece giving this reinforcing this theory is particular relation of Thrill, Dalinar and Kaladin. Kaladin might not feel the same Thrill as other men do but still, have similar exultation. Stormlight drives him to action, grants immense focus and endurance, in the same way, as Thrill affects Dalinar. I suspect Windrunners share this characteristic, they receive purified version of the Thrill devoid of bloodlust. While this feeling is empowered by Stormlight/Honor, Kaladin felt this before bonding Sylphrena, thus this seems more like a natural affinity. Conversely, Dalinar is super susceptible to this effect, to him violence is intoxicating and addicting, he revels in conquest. Perhaps this is the reason why Bondsmiths bear no Blades, as a reminder of their Vice. Apparently, this correlation encompasses each pair of Radiant Orders and Heralds, one's Virtue becomes Vice of the other. If proven true, this theory could provide an answer to most persisting questions, the madness of Heralds, a reason for Recreance and Cataclysm of Ashyn. Let me know what you think.