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  1. [Spoilers All] This started on Reddit, but since I've discovered this incredible site, I thought I'd bring it over here. Apologies if I'm doing this wrong, etc. Strongly appreciate corrections and feedback; I am only so realmatically aware :-) In a nutshell: I am starting to see the goals of a lot of the non-Shardic players in the Cosmere as: searching for a way to transport Investiture between Shardworlds. This is particularly apparent in The Ghostbloods. In Rhythm of War, I read Mraize's statement to Shallan as this: the goal of the Ghostbloods is to assure the persistence of Kelsier's Cognitive Shadow. As Kelek says, the persistence of a Cog requires Investiture. And it makes sense that Kel doesn't have much access to that. For a Cog to access Investiture, it needs any one of the following: -granted it directly by a Shard -on a Shardworld where lots of free investiture is available -on a Shardworld with investiture accessible, and sufficiently Connected to that world to access it -brought Investiture from such a source to it Our boi The Survivor comes up short on all counts: Kel could get some Investiture from the Shard(s) on Scadrial. But this seems unlikely. On the one hand, there's Harmony's growing tendency towards inaction in general; and on the other, I don't know if Sazed would Invest in our psychotic little Survivebro even if he could. He is on Scadrial. The amount of available Investiture there is simply very small - not even as a Mistborn. And as we learned in Secret History, he can't just wander off a-worldhoppin'. Either because the Investiture he has is too Connected to Scadrial to leave, or because he doesn't have enough to overcome this problem; I'm not sure. And a mechanism for bringing free Investiture from one Shardworld to another, has, I believe, not yet been discovered. Therefore, Kelsier would be content to find any of the following: -a way to get himself to Roshar. -a way to get himself to another Shardworld - Nalthis, Sel, Taldain (tho probably not Threnody), and also then access the local manifestation of Investiture. -a way to get free Investiture from any of those places to Scadrial. Has anyone else done this? Not quite. There are only two Cogs that I can think of, who we know were able to worldhop: Vasher and Shashara. From WoB I believe we know that this exact predicament is what caused Vasher to leave Nalthis for Roshar. But I expect it was a lot easier for Vasher to worldhop. He started off very Invested. A Returned with a Divine Breath, naturally Fifth Heightening... however you want to phrase it: Gruff Bae had a lot of Investiture. And as we know from Peacegiver's Treasure, he was definitely no stranger to acquiring more - Nor was Shashara, which we know from the fat stacks she expended in the creation of Nightblood. How is Kelsier going about this? I think he tried several things, one after another. I expect that he created the Bands Of Morning as a scientific experiment attempting to acces more of Scadrial's Investiture. Obviously it didn't work. It wouldn't surprise me if he tried to contact another Shard seeking, uhm, "sponsorship." (Giv avatar plz). This might well be related to all the Trelagist stuff on Scadrial. Whatever, and however - it seems it didn't work. We know from Mraize's Mancave Of Miracles that the Ghostbloods have been to many worlds. And they have brought back from them many Investiture-related objects, including white sand (Taldain), aviars (First of the Sun), and seons (Sel). Clearly nothing has solved the puzzle. We've also seen several ferruchemists offworld. It wouldn't surprise me if some of these are Ghostbloods. Metalminds allow for direct experimentation with the storing of Identity, Connection, and Investiture (Aluminum, Duralumin, and Nicrosil) on other worlds. These Terris people truly are cosmerenauts. However, he Kel hasn't figured out a way for him to Connect to one of these places sufficiently to access their Investiture; or he has, but not in a way that is strong enough to let him survive the trip to it. His work on Roshar - and his interests in Kalak especially - show that he is interested in the free investiture of Stormlight. This leads me to believe that he has concluded that he cannot get Investiture where he is, nor can he get to a better source of Investiture; he needs to bring the Investiture to him. What would the Realmatic effects of this be? #1 - it would give Cognitive Shadows on any Shardworld access to the life-persisting Investiture of the other worlds. Lots of Light = lots of shadows (heyooo). #2 - it would let forms of Investiture manipulation here be powered with Investiture from there. Which means intergalactic arbitrage opportunities for power - practically speaking, allowing merchants the opportunity to elevate themselves to positions of rulership, even interplanetarily so. #3 - probably tons of Realmatic things that I cannot even fathom. Who wouldn't want Kelsier to succeed? #1 - possibly, some or all Shards, as this would threaten their hegemonies over their planets specifically, and over the Cosmere as a whole #2 - every other group who wants to get this technology for themselves - so just rivals for power. This might include The Set, The Sons of Honor, who knows what. #3 - any noninterventionist group, I would think, would object to such a cosmic realignment of power. So I doubt Frost and his 17ers are all about this. Probably not the Sleepless either. Okay, that's how I read this. Am I entirely offbase? Whaddya guys think? -silver
  2. Does it say anywhere? I've been wondering... and then this morning I came across this WoB: If Kell took over rather than creating them from scratch... I feel that would explain a lot.
  3. Always another secret. I need to formulate this. The expedition makes for a gripping yarn. But it makes no sense. Not if you think it through under the stated purposes. Motivation and equipment (a.k.a. overly robust techniques of motivation) Kalak and the purported Kelsier share a goal. They want to make Cognitive Shadows mobile. Kalak looks ready to do things I shall not mention to get somebody to develop such technologies. What is the Ghostbloods first action towards him? Shallan, stab him to death! Even if you have the technology to contact him in that gem, why? It lacks any sense. Methods (a.k.a. living on a prayer) You have a weapon. The only other time such a weapon was used, it did, for the purpose of capture, fail catastrophically. You have no idea whether your version actually fell into your hands undamaged or if you copied the design, whether you made an error. And then you give it to the hands of an untrained freelancer. Cost/benefit analysis (a.k.a. pointy haired middle managers) You have a weapon containg a god metal. Most likely a substance of which exist at most a few kilogramms in the whole Cosmere. You handle it in an unsecured package without guards to an untrusted trainee, who used to be the assistant of an enemy less than a year ago Target selection (a.k.a. work by Rube Goldberg) You are supposed to be put back into a living body. Like a Fused. You want to experiment with one of the rarest beings in the Cosmere whose body is created by exotic means. Somebody is trying to trick somebody. I am not sure what is what in that web of lies, but the cover story is flawed beyond repair. Who wants a Herald dead: Odium - for obvious reasons Hoid - as long as Heralds are alive, one of them may die and break, which could set Odium free again, should the current Desolation end
  4. I’m not entirely sure if this has been put out there yet. I hop in only occasionally between book releases, so I apologize if this is a long-standing theory. I’m just going to come out and say it. Thaidakar is Kelsier. This passage from Chapter 115 of RoW is as explicit of proof as possible short of full confirmation. Lord of Scars? Obviously reference to the scars on his arms. Wit’s comment to him? Who else has Wit “slapped around”? Very few people considering he can’t harm others. Not to mention, the comment about “dealing with [his] own planet” - Scadrial isn’t exactly full of sunshine and rainbows at the moment, since this takes place before Era 2. Finally is the fact that we know of at least one very high up member, just one level below the big boss, who is from Scadrial in Iyatil. I haven’t dug around too much, and it’s possible this can be refuted somewhere in the text, but I think this links are set up too perfectly for Thaidakar to be anyone but Kelsier. Standard disclaimer that this could be red herrings, but it feels...too perfect to be that. Thoughts?
  5. I was doing a reread of Words of Radiance coming up to the release of Rhythm of War. In Chapter 63, Shallan overhears Mraize talking about the Sons of Honor and mentions Restares. He goes on to say: It appears that even back in Words of Radiance, Restares was in Lasting Integrity! And Mraize knew of this! The mention of songs he listens to is however very intriguing, perhaps we will find something odd about Lasting Integrity when Shallan and Adolin reach it? The way Mraize talks makes it sound as if Restares has been there for a while. How does he communicate with the outside world? Do spanreeds that are taken through a perpendicularity work with one half in Shadesmar, and the other in the Physical Realm? Amaram contacted him for advice regarding what to do with Kaladin and his squad mates, after Kaladin saved Amaram from the assassin shardbearer, so they must have some relatively fast way of communicating, or Restares was still in the Physical Realm at that point. Thoughts?
  6. Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but I am relistening to Oathbringer in preparation for RoW, and I noticed when Shallan sees Mraize while he is undercover with Sadeas' troops that Mraize has a green chicken with a wicked looking beak. Could this be an aviar from First of the Sun?
  7. I've started a reread of Oathbringer in anticipation for Rhythm of War, and just thought I'd spend way too long dissecting like one line that Pattern says. So, at the beginning of Chapter 40 of Oathbringer we have a letter sent to Shallan by the Ghostbloods explaining stuff about the Sons of Honor and the Skybreakers. After we get to read the letter, (on page 422 of the hardcover) Pattern drops this: Now, I know Pattern likes to drop the word "lies" in a crap ton of places that most of us wouldn't, and I don't believe that he's some sort of lie detector who will 100% always know when a lie is there. However, I do believe that the Branderson pays very, very deep attention to his writing and that he may have dropped this line as a flag to this reader, like "Hey, this thing is written by the Ghostbloods, and they have no reason to tell the whole truth to Shallan: just enough of the truth to keep her hooked and convinced that they have information she doesn't. Take the cue." Well, do I think there is any hard, textual evidence that this letter is a bit cremmy? Yes, but let's work it all out. Yes, I'm going to call it "crem" instead of "BS," just live with it. Here's the outline of the points that the letter made: Besides the Ghostbloods, there are (at least) two other secret societies: the Sons of Honor and the Skybreakers. Gavilar and Amaram were members of the Sons of Honor. The Sons of Honor sought to return the Desolation in order to strengthen the Vorin church, and this lead to Gavilar's assassination (although others also wanted him dead). The Skybreakers, lead by Nale, did not betray their oaths and have persisted since the Recreance. Nale kills those who are on the verge of becoming Radiants, or sends his Skybreakers/acolytes to do so because he fears new Radiants will lead to a new Desolation. (Alternatively, he turns them into Skybreakers if they are properly aligned) Shallan's mother was associated with the Skybreakers, who may have detected a budding Radiant in her household. This lead to her attempt to murder Shallan. However, the Skybreakers ended up believing this Helaran was the one bonding a spren. Helaran was sent to kill Amaram because of his affiliation with the Sons of Honor. The Skybreakers knew about a member of Amaram's army about to bond a spren, and this person was "eliminated." Kaladin was unknown to them, because otherwise he'd be dead. Now, let's sift through these 5 points and see if we find any crem. Point 1: No crem detected. This pretty much confirms what we see from Amaram's chapter in Words of Radiance about the Sons of Honor, and what Szeth sees later on in Oathbringer. The reference to others wanting Gavilar dead makes sense when you remember his last words about Sadeas and Thaidakar. I might modify the "vorin" bit just because Gavilar seems very cosmere-aware and less religious than just plain power hungry but otherwise this seems accurate. Point 2: No crem detected. We've seen this happen multiple times, and heard Nale's monologue. Point 3: Probably some crem. Some stuff isn't adding up here. Shallan's mom clearly knew that Shallan was the Radiant, so why would the Skybreakers suddenly decide that it's Helaran? They do not explain how Shallan's mother knows about Shallan's bond while the rest of the Skybreakers do not, and this looks like a major hole in the Ghostblood's story. At the very least, they are leaving out some details about either Shallan's mother or Helaran's affiliation. (warning: very minor spoiler for the Rhythm of War Prologue, which Brandon has read online.) Point 4: This is where my crem alarm went off. Let's think this one through. At first glance, the Skybreakers and the Sons of Honor have obvious opposing ideals and it's easy to buy that the Skybreakers would assassinate one of the Sons of Honor. But let's take a closer inspection and see if we've read any hard evidence of these two groups fighting. No. In fact, we've seen the opposite. Let's also look, again, at what Gavilar says as he's dying. He thinks he's been assassinated by either Sadeas or Thaidakar, not by the Skybreakers. Despite the fact that his assassin can STORMING FLY. Throughout his entire battle with Gavilar, Szeth only uses his surge of Gravitation. (okay tbh I'm not rereading to check but I'm pretty darn sure Szeth doesn't try to stick stuff to Gavilar with Adhesion, and also Decay probably wouldn't work against Shardplate so Gavilar has no reason not to believe he's using Skybreaker surges). The fact that Gavilar doesn't think his FLYING, GLOWING assassin is a Skybreaker would be simply ridiculous if he knew that they opposed him. (I'm also assuming Gavilar knows about the Skybreakers from his conversation with Nale). Well, you might say that we're now talking about Gavilar when we should really be talking about Amaram. That's a fair point, so let's look a the timing and execution here. First of all, why now? The Sons of Honor don't seem to have had much of a plan following Gavilar's assassination, besides the extensive mapping of the Shattered Plains which Amaram is caught conducting by Shallan. But at this point in time, Amaram isn't in the Shattered Plains at all: he's fighting some random skirmishes in the middle of Alethkar. Why would they Skybreakers kill him now, when they left him alone when the Sons of Honor were on the verge of success during the night of Gavilar's death, and when he actually decided to go to the Plains later? The execution is also, like, really weird. The Ghostbloods claim that Helaran was sent to kill Amaram as a test, but it's hardly a test of skill for a full Shardbearer to take down a plain warrior. If this is a test, it's a wimpy one. And after Helaran's failure, why not send another assassin? Yes, Amaram is a bit beefier as a full shardbearer now but we clearly see Szeth, who is weaker than a 3rd oath Windrunner, best multiple full shardbearers (using mostly gravitation, I might add) and we know there are 3rd and 4th ideal Skybreakers along with 5th ideal Nale. Any of these guys could easily wallop Amaram's not-so-sorry chull straight to Braize. The only argument you might make is that it would attract a ton of attention, but guess who's flying around murdering full shardbearers at the time? Szeth would be the perfect cover story: if the Skybreakers assassinated Amaram at any point during the first two books, it would have been pinned on Szeth, no questions asked. What an unfathomably stupid opportunity to ignore. Also, much like Gavilar, Amaram thinks Thaidakar is to blame (although Amaram may not know of the Skybreakers). I simply cannot buy that the Skybreakers want Amaram dead. But wait, how does this make any sense? These two groups are blatantly opposed in intention. My best guess is that Nale would kinda like being revered as who he is and be able to enforce the law, and that he's fine with Radiants and a Desolation as long as he's in charge of directing the events—hence his collaboration with Gavilar. Point 5: Possible crem. The proto-radiant mentioned here seems to be Tien, and he does die. So why am I calling out some crem? Because of all the crem in point 4. If Helaran wasn't sent to kill Amaram, why was he there? How could they have noticed Tien, but not Kaladin? I think that Helaran WAS sent to kill Kaladin, and that his attack on Amaram was a tactic to draw Kaladin out. They're on a massive battlefield, and it's not really easy to pin down where one random soldier might be. But if you know they've got the ideals of a Windrunner, you know that they're sure as hell going to run to protect their commanding officer. Kaladin hasn't committed any crimes (even petty ones) that they could pin on him, so they had to kill him in a battle since that's not really illegal I guess? Meanwhile, the Ghostbloods don't tell Shallan about this so they can claim that the Skybreakers want to kill the Sons of Honor. As for why Kaladin wasn't killed by the Skybreakers while he was a slave, I think Amaram's cover-up may have actually worked. The Skybreakers assumed that Helaran's mission was accomplished (and that Amaram killed him) after they were unable to detect any further radiant activity from the area. At the very least, I think this is easier to explain than all the problems with Point 4. So, what's the point? If my analysis is correct, it seems like the Ghostbloods are trying to frame the Skybreakers for actions against the Sons of Honor. Conspicuously missing from the letter is any mention of where the Ghostbloods themselves stand on this conflict. We know that both Gavilar and Amaram think Thaidakar wants to murder them, and that Thaidakar is connected to the Ghostbloods. Why not tell Shallan that the Ghostbloods are in conflict with the Sons of Honor? Shallan is ideologically opposed to the Sons so it would even make sense for the Ghostbloods to make the case that they don't like each other. This seems like a glaring detail to omit. Personally, I think that the reason the Ghostbloods and Sons of Honor are in conflict is something pretty nefarious that they aren't willing to reveal, and that they thus want to paint as much antagonism as possible on both the Skybreakers and the Sons so that Shallan doesn't hate the Ghostbloods even more. So, that's been my absurdly long analysis stemming from a single sentence uttered by Pattern. Yup. There ya go. I'd like to hear everybody's thoughts, and feel free to murder me with words if you disagree with my breakdown. Edit: forgot to include this mini-theory originally Mraize's phrasing about Tien's death is interesting. The exact quote is "From our spying upon the Skybreakers, we have records showing the only member of Amaram's army to have bonded a spren was long since eliminated." Eliminated. Maybe I'm being a bit paranoid, but should we just believe the Skybreakers knew of Tien, yet did nothing? Tien's completely innocent of any crimes, so it protects him from their direct assassination but I wouldn't put it against the Skybreakers to pull a few strings and make sure a messenger boy winds up on the front lines of combat. If this mini-theory is true, then it has pretty big implications about how Kaladin might react towards the Skybreakers if he ever find this out.
  8. When contemplating the Ghostbloods' methods I had a thought about how the Ghostbloods determined Shallan is a Lightweaver. I don't have hard evidence to back up, but here's the reasoning The Ghostbloods were impressed at Shallan's ability to evade their observers when infiltrating Amaram's warcamp Shallan avoiding assassination returning from the meeting where Shallan demonstrated her astonishing memorization abilities This may have lead to the Ghostbloods setting more than one person to observe Shallan retrieving the instructions. While Shallan was able to compromise Iyatil, a second tail would be able to observe Shallan revealing her head outside of the carriage at the entrance to the monastery (and could later help extract Iyatil). Mraize then leveraged that information in Urithiru to confirm Shallan could Soulcast and pressure her to stay with the Ghostbloods. I acknowledge that the situation of a message retrieval was crafted in a way that one agent should be able to tail Shallan, but as she was able to impress the Ghostbloods 3 times I think it likely that they could foresee the possibility of distraction or obstruction when the message is retrieved.
  9. So, I was thinking about the different "Secret" organizations in Roshar after reading WoR for the 1000000000000000th time (Never gets old) and then I realized we the sons of honor want to return the desolations, the skybreakers want to stop them, but we have NO STORMING IDEA what the ghostbloods want. And we KNOW they know about worldhopping. What do you think their goal is?
  10. So he got it onto his pants. I would say that this makes it likely to be Amberite. But is this the only possibility? Which aether could he have on display? How do the ethers of the first generation actually look like and how are they propagated?
  11. The safehouse wasn't in the sewer system. The man who had used the safe house was, not the house itself. Rather, the safe house, in question, was an abandoned sewer treatment plant, with full access to the sewers in the Alleycity. There was another man. Frob. Or, rather, that was what he called himself. Names should be nice and simple, they should. That's what he told himself as he straightened things up in the safehouse. To him, it was nothing more than his home. Vesuvius had said there might be people looking for him. That was why he was leaving. Frob was silly. Silly Frob. But Frob was never a man to ignore his superiors. And Vesuvius was surely his superior. Frob looked down at his stump arm. All he had done was question why the man Vesuvius had brought, Benson, was missing an arm. The wound had been bleeding. Frob had been forced- No. Frob had been given the nice opportunity to help heal Benson. Frob didn't know Benson's whereabouts now, but he had seemed nice. Like Frob. Surely, Frob was nice, for letting Vesuvius use his safe house? For holding in his scream while Vesuvius punished him for his curiosity? Frob could still remember the pain, the sudden loss. He needed to massage his left hand, he did. The fingers were too cramped. The thing was, his left hand no longer existed. Well, it didn't exist outside of the little grave he had dug for it. He could remember the screams. He couldn't remember what Vesuvius had done to Benson, because they had gone off into a side room while Frob patched himself. But Benson hadn't returned. Vesuvius did, but only to leave a minute later, telling Frob, in mock kindness, emphasized by his decking Frob in the face with that metal arm of his, to leave. Well, Frob wasn't going to ignore such a thing as that. so, Frob left. He didn't have much possessions. He had friends. They were loyal. They all chose small names for themselves as Frob had. Frob was lucky to have friends that understood. It was raining. Frob didn't care. He liked rain. He liked the excuse to leave his little house and splish-splash in the puddles. That's what Frob did now. He had time to tally-wagon. The people Vesuvius had promised would get him would never find him. He promised Vesuvius that. He wouldn't break his promise.
  12. So, we recently got the following WOB: Questioner (paraphrased) Have we seen Ghostbloods in action outside of the Rosharan system? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) You have seen proto-Ghostbloods, but not after the their actual initiation. Stuttgart signing (May 17, 2019) So, if I am understanding correctly, Brandon is saying we have seen characters that would later become Ghostbloods but weren't during the events of their book, kinda like how Demoux would later become a member of the 17th Shard but wasn't a member during the Mistborn trilogy. Given that, and given what little we know of the Ghostbloods, let's do what we do here at the 17th Shard and wildly speculate and then use confirmation bias to line up facts so they seem to support our claims. What characters do you think went on to join the Ghostbloods after their books?
  13. okay, so we all remember Mraize's souvenirs from shardworlds: the vial of sand, the santhid skull, the preserved flower etc. however, the one that stood out the most (to me at least) was the branch with carvings on it
  14. Interesting new WoB that leads to a micro-theory. So my theory is that they started as cognitive shadows of some sort, perhaps descendents of a CS that had children, or simply CS with a body (hence blood). I like the idea that it's of Threnodite origin, and the forces the IRE refer to. Curious to hear other ideas!
  15. From the album Ghostblood symbol art

    This is actually what I was thinking about making, Mraize with a tattoo ghostblood tear. I think it looks pretty good, and this will probably be the last ghostblood symbol bit of artwork that I glut up the gallery with...
  16. Keep in mind that this is all speculation. Below are some relevant WoB's which I will dive into later 1. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] The Ghostbloods. Are they Kelsier's new crew? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Oh, good question. Do I wanna answer this or not? I'm gonna RAFO this one. Yeah, we're gonna RAFO this one. Billy Todd [PENDING REVIEW] Have there been interactions between Kelsier and the Ghostbloods? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] I will RAFO that. 2. ccstat If Kelsier (when Vin knew him) were to join one of the Rosharan secret societies, which one would he choose? Brandon Sanderson He would become part of the Ghostbloods, most likely, and would be in charge of them within a year. source source 3. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Yes, or no. With all of the cosmere books that have been put out, do we have enough information to deduce the Ghostbloods' motives? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Ummm... *laugher* I would say yes, but it's not like you are a fool if you haven't gotten it. Robert Jordan once answered a question like this saying, "Well, the answer should be intuitively obvious to the casual observer." Which I never thought was fair. Like, no, it was not. Szeth, some people guessed it. And some people will guess this. A lot of the foreshadowing in my books, it's this weird thing where, when you do proper foreshadowing, and then people have three years between books, they're gonna figure some things out. Which presents a really interesting challenge to me as a writer, because, like, there are big things that get revealed in Oathbringer, that people who have been steeped in the world for the last seven years... they kinda knew this would happen. We get the beta readers, and they're like, "So? Doesn't everyone know that?" But at the same time, the casual reader, beta readers were like "Holy cow! This is a huge revelation!" And books need to work both for the person who has been really steeped in it, and the person who's reading along that maybe doesn't want to go get all the spoilers from all the fan guessing. So it is this weird balancing act that, as a writer, you have to perform, particularly with the longer books in the longer series, where you want to make sure they're engaging to the hardcore fan, but not overwhelming to the person who maybe hasn't reread the books since the last one came out. And I don't know that I have that balance figured out, but it is something I think about a lot... source Kelsier's motivations post Secret History: After his interactions with Khriss and Nazh in Secret History, Kelsier realises just how little he really knows. Kelsier would see this ignorance as a weakness he must overcome, as to rise to the top he must acquire knowledge. Kelsier's conversation with Spook at the end of Secret History illustrate his quest to pursue knowledge of the cosmere. “Now, don’t be like that,” Kelsier said. “Our work is important. Vital. We’re going to unravel the mysteries of the universe. The cosmere, as it is called.” “It’s a big, big place out there, kid,” Kelsier said. “Bigger than I ever knew. Ignorance almost lost us everything. I’m not going to let that happen again.” He tapped at Spook’s ear. “While dead, I had an opportunity. My mind expanded, and I learned some things. My focus wasn’t on these spikes; I think I could have worked it all out, if it had been. I still learned enough to be dangerous, and the two of us are going to figure the rest out.” If there is one thing we know about Kelsier, it is that he compulsively meddles. He would not be content to swear an oath of non-interference like the 17th shard members. We know from a WoB that the 17th shard and ghostbloods do not work together. Furthermore, Iyatil has South Scadrian ancestry and was a former member of the 17th shard. It is plausible that she converted to the ghostbloods after a little persuasion from the god figure of her ancestors. So the 17th shard does not fit Kelsier, leaving the ghostbloods as the only known worldhopper organisation with a similar agenda. We know that Kelsier always feels the need to operate a crew. This is a constant between pre-Final Empire and post-Final Empire Kelsier, as shown when he treats Preservation/Fuzz as a crew member after determining his goal was to stop ruin and also at the end of Secret History when he recruits Spook. It is highly probable, then, that Kelsier post-Secret History has founded a new crew which is the ghostbloods. So what exactly are the ghostbloods up to? First of all, a minor piece of evidence linking the ghostbloods to Kelsier is the name of the organisation. Ghost= cognitive shadow, Blood= hemallurgy Now, as shown above, Kelsier appears to be on a quest to gather cosmere knowledge. In Mraize's basement we see artifacts from many worlds, including a knife from Threnody (possibly the knife which Nazh gave to Kelsier in Secret History), a vial of white sand, a dye flower from Nalthis (tears of Edgli), possibly Royal Idrian locks and in a later scene we see Mraize with an aviar. This shows that the ghostbloods are collecting investiture related artifacts from numerous shardworlds. The collection of these artifacts would tie into Kelsier's pursuit of cosmeric knowledge. Here's where things get a little crazy. I believe that Sja Anat has known Shallan since she was a child and is responsible for her forming a nahel bond so early in life before everything fell apart. 4. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Was Shallan's family, during her childhood, being influenced by an Unmade? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Um, yes. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Was it <the corrupt...>? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] I'll RAFO that, but yes, there is some external influence there. source 5. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Why don't you have to say the words if you're just bonding a Cryptic? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Every Order's First Oath is the same. Then the Second Oaths for the Cryptics go into truths, but everybody says the First Oath the same regardless of Order. Which should raise the question of... Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Did [Shallan] say it when she was a teeny-weeny, like in the cradle? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] That should raise a question. She wasn't teeny-weeny, but it should raise a question there. source This would tie in with the ghostbloods interest in Sja Anat, as she may be able to grant them nahel bonds in a similar fashion. This would add to their investiture collection. I see the situation as being similar to Hoid collecting investiture from different sources, though the end goals likely differ drastically. 6. Questioner How would - just really generally - the Ghostbloods react if they found or met Hoid? Brandon Sanderson (laughs) They... Some people among them know of him. Questioner So they know he's around. Brandon Sanderson Some of them do, not everybody. But they are aware of his existence. At least in lore, they don't always... Not all of them have connected the King's Wit to this person's lore, does that make sense? So what would they know? They'd probably want to get him and interrogate him. They would want to know what he knows, but he is really slippery and it's hard to get out of him what he knows. source Conclusion: There is a realistic possibility that Kelsier has at least had involvement with the ghostbloods. This could potentially set up conflict between Hoid and Kelsier as they would have similar pursuits and really don't get along very well. We know that Secret History was in the works from as early as 2006 so Brandon clearly felt like he had not finished telling Kelsier's story. Maybe Shallan will finally meet the mysterious Thaidakar with heavily scarred arms.
  17. With such a Powerful shard (Odium), his eternal agents (The Fused), it easy for us not to see a sleeping Giant : the ghostbloods. They seem all knowing , way too informed , a pragmatic to the point it’s scary! Now they want Shallan to convince Ska-Amat to come to their side? This is the. Unmade that was reputed the most feared by the Radiants . What the heck do the Ghostbloods want with SJ ? Whats even scarier how do they even know that Shallan made contact with her? Nobody was on that platform But Azure, Shallan, Adolin, Kaladin , and maybe some members of bridge 4 and maybe few freed house guards . Who could of got word back to them ? Yo shallan is talking to an unmade named Sja-anat. We should look into that . At first I thought this smells just like the set on Scadrial ! I started wondering if the Ghostbloods are being ran by Autonomy . Unless the ghostbloods have a shard behind them what do they have to offer Sja-Anat. If Odium takes back his power she is destroyed. Unless she find another shard to fuel her life essence. Anyways I looked up WoB and only found one that. Says they have communicated with the Ghostbloods. So perhaps that’s not it. Then I thought about Kelsier ! He might know a way to keep Ska-Anat. Tethered . So I searched him on WoB and ran into a wall Of Rafo . So without doing a bunch of speculating . Let’s just ask Two questions . What do the Ghostbloods want with Sj ? And are the Ghostbloods setting themselves up to Rule. Roshar once the battle of shards is over? Thoughts?
  18. Look. You may be looking at Mraize's post and wantng to jjoin, maybe you already have. You made a mistake. When the Ghostbloods disbanded Gancho and I, along with many of the OG Ghostbloods began working in secret, forming a "New" Ghostbloods. Now out of the blue Mraize and TFA decide that they want to reform, and KILL US. This unprecedented action surprised us, but we won't go quietly. If you wish to help us stop this then please PM me or @Gancho Libre.
  19. One of the great mysteries of Oathbringer and the Stormlight Archive thus far is determining the motives of the Ghostbloods. They have many investiture related objects from several shardworlds including a vial of white sand, an aviar, a tear of Edgli flower, a knife from Threnody and royal Idrian locks. They are aware that Sja Anat is willing to defect and are eager for Sja Anat to serve their unknown purposes. So how exactly would Sja Anat serve the Ghostbloods? Other than taking a powerful stick away from Odium, Sja Anat's ability to corrupt spren may give an insight into how she could be of use to the Ghostbloods. I believe that the mechanics involved in corrupting spren are similar to the mechanics involved in altering a spirit web. This would be akin to the effect of a normal person ingesting Lerasium. Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Lerasium overwrites Spiritual DNA. It can do some interesting things, and can overwrite your Spiritual DNA in different ways if you do it right. If a Surgebinder ate lerasium, he would become an Allomancer, but Brandon implied other things could be done. source We know that a nahel bond forms with an individual with cracks in their spirit web. These cracks are caused by experiencing severe trauma, similar to snapping in Era 1 Mistborn. Now here's where Shallan comes into play. She bonded Pattern before her family life was destroyed. While her parents may have been in an unhappy marriage, this would not be harrowing enough to cause cracks in the spirit web to form. This raises the question of how and when Shallan's spirit web was cracked and how she came to originally bond Pattern. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Why don't you have to say the words if you're just bonding a Cryptic? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Every Order's First Oath is the same. Then the Second Oaths for the Cryptics go into truths, but everybody says the First Oath the same regardless of Order. Which should raise the question of... Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Did [Shallan] say it when she was a teeny-weeny, like in the cradle? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] That should raise a question. She wasn't teeny-weeny, but it should raise a question there. source Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] How was Shallan able to bond with Pattern before she was broken? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] She was open to him even before she went through a lot of that turmoil Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] I thought everybody had to be broken in order to-- Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Well, that's their philosophy in-world. But I'm not going to say whether it's correct or wrong. I will imply that there are other means as well. source We also know that an unmade was influencing the Davar family at some point Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Was Shallan's family, during her childhood, being influenced by an Unmade? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Um, yes. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Was it <the corrupt...>? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] I'll RAFO that, but yes, there is some external influence there. Theory: Sja Anat is the unmade that was present during Shallan's childhood. Sja Anat altered Shallan's spirit web to allow a nahel bond to be formed with Pattern. Additionally, Sja Anat did so at Cultivation's request. Cultivation has powerful future sight as shown by The Diagram, which I and many others believe to be designed to intentionally mislead Odium. Cultivation's scheming against Odium has been going on for at least 5-6 years, as this is the age of The Diagram. Cultivation sent Glys to Sja Anat to be corrupted, giving Renarin access to surges which make him a counter against Odium. This sets precedent for Cultivation and Sja Anat cooperating. So how does this tie into Shallan's history? One only needs to look at the sequence of events caused by Shallan bonding Pattern. Shallan bonds Pattern. Her mother finds out and she conspires with a skybreaker acolyte to kill her. This event permanently scars the rest of the Davar family, driving Lin Davar down into a dark spiral. Helaran Davar joins the skybreakers after abandoning his household. Kaladin kills Helaran in attempting to save Amaram, setting Kaladin down his path. Given Cultivation's incredible foresight, she would have foreseen the consequences of Shallan bonding Patter and these consequences are obstructive towards Odium's goals. If Sja Anat is indeed capable of altering an individual's spirit web as I have theorised above, then she would be an incredibly powerful tool for an organisation such as the Ghostbloods and it comes at no surprise that they would be ambitious enough to pursue it.
  20. Which of the artifacts that the ghostbloods have in the basement in WoR can we Identify. Here is my list so far. Pale sand: Sandmastery Hairpins:? Golden Hair: Royal Locks Tree Branch with writing on it: ? Silver Knife: Keliser's from Mistborn Secret History or from Threnody Odd Flower: dye flower from Warbreaker Pink Crystal: ? Any thoughts.
  21. This was put up by our supposed leader, Mraize. The Ghostbloods have been around for about a month and have provided a new experience that couldn't have been had before. The fact that we're disbanding to be absorbed into the titans about to clash is ridiculous. We have been and are a neutral organization, affiliated with no one, but working for everyone. We would have stood tall and survived through this time if it weren't for cowardice and unnecessary loyalties. Although Mraize is attempting to dissolve our organization, me and an elite few of the Ghostbloods have proposed a New Ghostbloods. We are casting aside relationships with other guilds, and becoming the ultimate weapon to be wielded by whomever wishes us to. I will lead this new and improved Ghostbloods. We will operate as we have, but without restriction. Any who wish to join us may do so, and any who oppose us must reconsider. We have no allegiances. Although we can be your greatest threat, we may also be your greatest sword in the times to come. To join us message me or @Gancho Libre. To hire us do the same. TUBA, DA, Liebrary, Sons of War, none of these matter, and yet any may use us. Consider these words spoken in great passion, and know that we are watching.
  22. @Mraize Has been screwing with us this whole time. He claimed the Ghostblood's were disbanded. This is very false. I discovered the plot when I saw this message: And this one: You can already see the beginnings of this. @PrinceDusty has joined TUBA. Clearly this is a plot to try and assassinate the whole of TUBA. I waited to publicly release this because Mraize has been a friend of the Liebrary for a long time. But if he is going to attempt a complete clearing of the guilds, then he must be stopped. I still hope for peaceful resolution, but I fear this may not be possible. I would like to apologize to @Archer and @Stormblessed Dolphin for having @MacThorstenson lie to them about the identity of the person who tipped him off. I wanted this to be known by the members of TUBA, but didn't want them to know it was me. Using Mac as my intermediary was my solution to this problem. Please. We beg of you. Join us in the fight against these traitors. @Nohadon @Voidus as well. We will all need to rise up against these people if we want to avoid complete death. Join us. Fight.
  23. Is Tyn's name a pun? She's a counter for Shallan, she's ... Tynfoil.