Search the Community

Showing results for tags 'ghostbloods'.

More search options

  • Search By Tags

    Type tags separated by commas.
  • Search By Author

Content Type


  • Brandon and Book News
  • Events, Signings, & Giveaways
  • Columns and Features
  • Site News
  • Shardcast


  • 17th Shard
    • Introduce Yourself!
    • 17th Shard Discussion
    • The Coppermind Wiki
    • Arcanum Discussion
  • Brandon Sanderson
    • General Brandon Discussion
    • Events and Signings
    • Sanderson Fan Works
    • Arcanum, the Brandon Sanderson Archive
  • Spoiler Zone
    • The Lost Metal (Mistborn Spoilers Only, No Cosmere)
    • Tress of the Emerald Sea (No Cosmere Spoilers)
    • New Cosmere Releases (Lost Metal and Tress Spoilers)
  • The Cosmere
    • Cosmere Q&A
    • Cosmere Discussion
    • Cosmere Secret Projects Previews
    • Stormlight Archive
    • Mistborn
    • Elantris and Emperor's Soul
    • Warbreaker
    • White Sand
    • Cosmere Short Stories
    • Unpublished Works
  • Non-cosmere Works
    • Non-cosmere Secret Project
    • The Reckoners
    • Skyward
    • The Rithmatist
    • Alcatraz
    • Dark One
    • Other Stories
    • The Wheel of Time
  • Related Works
    • Writing Excuses
    • Reading Excuses
    • TWG Archive
  • Community
    • General Discussion
    • Entertainment Discussion
    • Science, Tech, and Math Discussion
    • Creator's Corner
    • Role-Playing
    • Social Groups, Clans, and Guilds


  • Chaos' Blog
  • Leinton's Blog
  • 17th Shard Blog
  • KChan's Blog
  • Puck's Blag
  • Brandon's Blog
  • Darth Squirrely's Blog
  • Tales of a Firebug
  • borborygmus' Blog
  • Zeadman's Blog
  • zas678's Blog
  • The Basement
  • Addy's Avocations
  • Zarepath's Blog
  • First time reading The Well Of Ascension
  • Seshperankh's Blog
  • "I Have Opinions About Books"
  • Test
  • Which actors would you like to see playing the characters of Mistborn?
  • Drifted Mists
  • Jaron's Realm
  • Roshar Speculative Theories
  • ChrisHamatake's Blog
  • Paradox Flint's Blog
  • Deoradhan's Blog
  • Storm Blessed's Blog
  • Elwynn's Blog
  • firstRainbowRose's Blog
  • Rotabush ShardBlog
  • Hoid's Compendium
  • InterContinental Adventures
  • Claincy Creates
  • WoR Thoughts and Questions
  • Blogfalcon
  • David Coppercloud's Blog
  • yurisses' notes and theories
  • Lark Adventures
  • LUNA's Poetry
  • Inspiration Board
  • Trying to be Useful for a Change
  • The Way of Toasters
  • Cosmere Nerd Things
  • Dapper's Music Blog
  • Shhh Spoilers for Ronald.
  • Wyn's Adventures in Geekiness
  • Words With Ene
  • Dapper's Blog
  • Things to talk about, stuff to do
  • Zelly's Healthy-Accountability Blog
  • Even These Acronyms
  • Rhythm of War Liveblog
  • Unnecessarily Overcomplicated
  • Star's Art Blog
  • Weather Reports
  • Axioms Idioms & Adages
  • The Blog of Dubious Copyright Legality
  • Trutharchivist's Rambles
  • 5
  • Xino's corner of insanity
  • The Perfect Space Opera
  • My Journey Through Roshar (A Liveblog)
  • Lost Metal Liveblog by ccstat


  • Community Calendar

Found 80 results

  1. Ok so this has been eating at me since my first time through the series. Now finishing up my 4th time through, and I feel like this needs to be addressed sometime soon in the story. Shallan has been lying to Jasnah, constantly, about a great many things even after Jasnah was clear with her that she would accept no more lies from her. Honestly if I'm Jasnah, and I find out Shallan was working with the Ghostbloods, I would want her out of the Tower, and I don't see any reasonable way around that. Shallan has proven she will lie and manipulate whoever she wants to do things "her" way because she things she's the only one who can address any of these problems. Her arrogance is just shocking to me. I absolutely do not see how Shallan is following the First Ideal, not even close. She sacrifices children and other beggers in her "brilliant" plan to infiltrate the Cult of Moments. Does she feel bad about it? Yeah, for about 5 minutes. Does she change her ways based on this realization? Of course not, she then goes on a trip to Lasting Integrity where she lies to every single person continuously, literally every living being she encounters she lies and manipulates for her scheme to help the Ghostbloods, which she has done plenty of already regardless of what lies she tells herself the organization isn't "rewarding" her for doing things they find useless. She's advancing the interests of people who tried to murder her and the person who has given her access to do Everything she has accomplished or gained. Jasnah is extremely intelligent and good and figuring out plots. It seems unlikely in my view that Shallan could continue to hide that she was working with the Ghostbloods from Jasnah, especially since Wit definitely knows she is, and Wit is in a relationship with Jasnah. When she does find out Shallan has been lying and manipulating her and everyone else to continue following the Ghostbloods orders (regardless of the ending of RoW) Jasnah should be furious, and should never trust her again.. She has proven she is not trustworthy, period. No rational person would look at the lies and manipulations Shallan has performed and say "well maybe they're an honest person now". I'll even grant that at the end of RoW maybe Shallan made some huge breakthrough. Maybe she will go straight to Jasnah and apologize and beg forgiveness. If I was Jasnah I would thank her for the apology then banish her immediately from Alethkar and the Tower and tell her she's unwelcome in her lands or those of Dalinar. If I was Navani and I found out Shallan was working with the people who tried (and very nearly did) murder my daughter, I would want her executed.
  2. Hey everyone, after i finished reading the Lost Metall i was more curious than ever to get some new information about the ghostbloods. Although we got something about their motives, we didn't get much about how they were founded. So i am looking forward to (maybe) a Secret History 2... Or, let's say, a Secret History for every Era of Mistborn. To see what Kelsier is doing behind the curtains. One Question to get things a little bit more clear: The Timeline in the cosmere is still a little bit obscure. Does anybody know if Stormlight and Mistborn Era 2 are taking place at the same time? After reading The Lost Metall i have the feeling that this has to be right.
  3. So Shai is Moonlight. I get that. Makes relative sense. I’m sure Shai was an easy person to recruit into the Ghostbloods. However, for being hundreds of years old, she sure does not seem to be the most powerful forger of her time. From what she has said, she has three soul stamps on her. Two of which are universal stamps, which I am certain is quite difficult to pull off. The third is an essence stamp that makes her an Elantrian, which is also surely difficult to pull off. However. Three soul stamps? Really? Shai is certainly better than that. Is it a limitation of resources? What Shai has made is certainly impressive, but probably something an average forger could pull off in 100 years of living. I think it’s safe to assume Shai’s been kicking for longer than that, and again, she is THE BEST forger of her lifetime. If this is the Shai we know, I would expect a whole briefcase of powerful soul stamps, including more than just one essence mark. I understand that she only has so much access to her abilities, since there’s only so much Dor that she has access to. However, even with limited resources, more options are always welcome. I find it slightly hard to believe that Shai wouldn’t have proper materials to make more, as the Ghostbloods are at this point quite far reaching and could certainly procure some. Especially since, as far as I’m aware, Shai is quite high up in their ranks. So what’s up? Why does Shai, the most powerful forger or her time, who has presumably been alive for hundreds of years, honing her skills, pals with Kelsier himself, have only three soul stamps?
  4. When talking with harmony at the end of the book, Kelsier is revealed to be unable to use metallic arts as CS, and is desperately trying to regain his powers. But... In his conversation with the bilming ghostbloods through a seon, Kelsier says that he cannot move faster as he is over water, and thus his steelpushing is useless. So Either: Kelsier is lying to the ghostbloods, pretending to be a misting in order to command greater respect. Kelsier has a coinshot friend he piggy back rides like max, or kelsier can actually use A-Steel through as of yet unseen A-medallions. This would make sense as if he cant use medallions, why make the bands? (but this is somewhat contradicted by his one POV chapter, where he laments his inability to use A-Iron and A-steel, so the whole thing is rather confusing) In any case, the 1st is most likely, which adds a bit of edge to when marasi asks if the ghostbloods can rely on even him to never keep secrets.
  5. I return from my slumber beneath the mountain to plague you all with unwanted and unwarranted speculation! (Spoilers up to and including Rhythm of War and the entire lesser Mistborn Trilogy). There's always another secret. The simplest explanation is, for the Cosmere, often unlikely to be the truth. Thus, speculation should tend to the far-fetched, if only for the sake of being interesting. I propose that The Ghostbloods are much more accurately described as a South Scadrian intelligence agency sent to destabilize other words than as a criminal organization seeking a non-metaphorical power monopoly. Furthermore, I propose that their aims are essentially Preservationist in nature, rather than Ruinous (though their methods may be ruinous). With its lamentable corruption into Harmony, the only true legacy of Preservation is Scadrial itself. With the loss of Ruin, the only genuine threat to Scadrial is other worlds, and as in many things, the greatest dangers to a world are discovery and innovation (Anyone who doubts this should consider what happened to the Dinosaurs when the comet hit, or what happened to the comet itself... when worlds collide, worlds collide, and one or both are destroyed. Contact is contamination, contamination is destruction, destruction is ruin). The next greatest danger to the worlds of the Cosmere is the shard Odium, currently quarantined in the Roshar system (to those who doubt that innovation is the greater threat, consider that it was the curious mortal Navani Kholin, rather than the shard Odium or one of its Fused, who discovered how to permanently kill spren. To those who doubt that discovery is the greater threat, consider what the discovery by humans of Roshar and how to get there meant for the native Parshendi, or what would happen if Odium were to discover a way to escape its prison). The Rosharan system represents an undeniable and existential danger to the rest of the Cosmere. Its vast and easily accessible sources of Investiture alone would make it the epicenter of cross-system contamination as Worldhoppers would inevitably seek to exploit it. Such power, for the sake of preserving all else that is, must be controlled, must be seized. Establishing a non-metaphorical power monopoly is the best way to prevent anyone else from uncontrolled, unauthorized, unsafe-in-the-long-run, irresponsible use of investiture. Controlling the Oathgates, Urithiru, and the Perpendicularities is the best way to keep Roshar as the quarantine it ought to be, rather than the crossroads it might become. Odium, regardless of its bearer, is likely to stay contained so long as no clever little monkey figures out the wrong trick... Yeah, so long as J. Kholin and N. Kholin breathe, it's only a matter of time before the "wrong trick" is figured out and Odium is set free. Those of Scadrial, of all people, know what happens when an evil shard is set free from its prison. To prevent more catastrophes such as what happened to Sel, any true follower of Preservation* would find themselves with the same objectives as the Ghostbloods. Add to this Thaidakar's rather hands-off style of leadership, and the tendencies of those-organizations-sent-by-authority-to-destabilize-other-places-in-order-to-serve-the-interests-of-the-homeland, and it stops being a mystery why monsters like Mraize get in positions of influence and power in the Ghostbloods. TLDR; The Ghostbloods aren't an Investiture Cartel, they're the South Scadrial CIA... which is honestly scarier, and probably worse. *as in Preservation, rather than Harmony
  6. welcome to the ghostbloods, where our tattoo
  7. So he got it onto his pants. I would say that this makes it likely to be Amberite. But is this the only possibility? Which aether could he have on display? How do the ethers of the first generation actually look like and how are they propagated?
  8. We learn in The Rhythm of War that Mraize approached Sja-anat (through Shallan) to send to him a corrupted/enlightened mistspren to bond. Fortunately, Tumi (the spren) chose Rlain instead and Mraize is probably not able to see the future yet (yay!). It would be rather terrifying if the Ghostbloods had access to oracular powers. What do you think happened between Tumi and Mraize? Did the spren consider him personally not worthy or did it turn out to be mechanically impossible for someone of his decent?
  9. I was scrolling through this random thing: And the picture for Invested I don't get. I just... am confused. I haven't read Era 2, and I think I'm missing something... could someone explain it to me?
  10. Ok, hear me out. We know that Kelsier became a Cognitive shadow after his death because of Preservation. At the end of Mistborn: Secret History we see Kelsier wants to get back to life. We also know that the Ghostbloods want power. According to Mraize, they want Stormlight because it is easily transportable Investiture, and they will get rich off of it. That seems weak to me, because even though it would make them insanely rich, they already seem to be rich and there seem to be better ways than that. This is where my theory comes in. They want the Investiture so that they can turn themselves into cognitive shadows. We know that having a lot of Investiture can extend the time between dying and going to the Beyond. Any thoughts?
  11. I know this isn't possible, but I was rereading mistborn, and all I could think about was how what if Vin was trained by someone who didn't teach her how to trust? Someone who reinforced Reen's abuse? The first person who came to mind with that was Mraize and the Ghostbloods. So how do you guys think Vin would have turned out with that kind of environment?
  12. 1. The Set is too powerful. Perhaps that avatar makes it too difficult for Kel and his agents to get close to the main members of the set for some good old assassination. 2. They are unaware of the Set. Less likely in my opinion, because there is only one perpendicularity and my guess is the GBs keep a close watch on it. Also my guess would be that the GBs have a large hand in Scadriels current governments and behind the scenes actions. 3. The GB’s put in charge of Scadrial by Kelsier have turned coat and are now members of the Set. Kelsier either doesn’t know yet or hasn’t made his move yet. what other reasons can y’all think off?
  13. This Theory is based on the fact that we know that Thaidakar in Kelsier, what we already know of the Ghostbloods intent and sorta the spiritweb. So the first point i would like to make is about what we already know of their intent as an organization. We already know that they want a convenient source of investiture. second, we know that Kelsier likes to help people. Third Wit made an interesting jab at Kel. He said something along the lines of take care of your planet before you meddle on others. Well what if that is what he is doing? What if the stormlight is meant to alter the spiritweb of a person enough to make them a full misborn or feruchemist. This can lead to other bigger implications but i won't get into those now. I would appreciate feedback positive and negative since it is my first theory.
  14. Do we know how the timing lines up on Scadrial and Roshar? In TWOK Demoux is seen worldhopping on Roshar, meaning the non-flashback events we've seen on Roshar must occur after but within decades of the Final Ascension on Scadrial. In Mistborn Secret History, Kelsier only learns of worldhopping around the time of the Catacendre. He is widely theorized to be Thaidakar, but the Ghostbloods have presumably been operating for decades on Roshar. When did Kelsier establish the Ghostbloods? Also, Demoux followed Kelsier in life, later becoming one of the founders of and most dedicated adherent to Survivalism. What are the chances that he became a worldhopper but NOT a member of the Ghostbloods? I assume this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find anything written on it. Have I made some faulty assumptions? Thanks!
  15. It has been bothering me that Zahel was nowhere to be seen once Urithiru was invaded in Rhythm of War. I understand that his whole prerogative these days is just to lay low and stay uninvolved, but I feel like that wouldn't of been possible during the invasion. Is it possible that Kelsier could have attempted to kidnap him? I dunno if the ghostbloods would even be able to pull that off but it does align with his motives. His whole reason for wanting shallan to capture kelek was to (correct me if I'm wrong) help him find a way to break his tether to Scadrial. Vasher would be WAYYY more helpful in that regard. he is also a highly invested cognitive shadow that has been world hopping for longer than almost any other world hopper we know of. That might be what Mraize was up to in Urithiru. It is hard for me to believe that the ghostbloods would be capable of that but not entirely impossible for me to believe it either.
  16. I only recently noticed I hadn't updated my favourite Story-theory yet with the new Dawnshard/RoW Knowledge, so here goes. TL; DR: Kelsier will try to reforge and become Ambition. Collecting enough of Ambitions Investiture will enable him to ascend to Shardhood. So, RoW answered atleast some of my thoughts about what Kel would get up to. It also fed into my theory, so it's time to dig that up again. First, the arguments that still hold: (New Arguments at the bottom) - He tasted Ascension with Preservation. And now that he knows that's a thing that is possible, it seems like a worthy goal to keep himself busy with. - Hoid seems to be interested in keeping the Shards from gaining too much power and keeping them seperated. Kelsier hates him. Would be fun to have them square off in that kind of way, especially with Hoid as the MC of Mistborn Era 4 You might ask: But why specifically Ambition? - At the end of Secret History, Vin asks Kelsier an important question about his motivation. We're lead to believe that Kelsier will look inside himself and realize that she was right and his vendetta against the Lord Ruler was more about himself than the Skaa or Scadrial. From RoW, we can gather that he probably accepted that and doubled down on it - see Thaidakar. We saw that Preservations Intent and Kelsier's personality were too different. Of all the shards we know, Ambition would fit him really well. He's insanely ambitious, going so far as to think up a way to overthrow an - as far as he knew - immortal Emperor. He punched multiple gods. And he created a multiple-world-spanning secret Organisation. If that isn't ambitious, I don't know what is. - Additionally, according to my Understanding, Ambition is one of the, if not the, least limiting Intents. With all we've read about Ruin corrupting Ati, Odium and Honor and Preservation etc limiting their Vessels, Ambition is... not really like that. I'm sure there some zany stuff there, but I doubt becoming Ambition would hinder Kelsiers Megalomania, if anything it would further increase it. And it wouldn't bind him to anything stupid like Oaths or whatever, which he definitely wouldn't want. But there's more hints towards my theory. - Foreshadowing (pun intended). When Kelsier encountered the Ire, they mentioned Threnody Shades. As Kelsier is a Cognitive Shadow, their Alerter Fabrial picked up on him. I believe that this might be more than fanservice for those of us who read Shadows for Silence. Threnody is the one planet we know where Investiture from Ambition "landed" in large chunks. It's already connected to Cognitive Shadows, and the names of the planets in the Threnodite system are all the names of Songs of Mourning - and Kelsier is dead ( also as in "The Bands of Mourning", which Kelsier used) - Threnody and Sel are the only other two planets that Kelsier canonically knew as of the end of secret history. Putting himself in opposition of the Ire, it wouldn't be too far fetched that he would have investigated what it is that these very knowledgable people are trying to contain that they confused him with. Not a far stretch imho. It seems that on Roshar, the Ghostbloods already have plan and directive, so I assume Kelsier already has had some kind of plan by the time they set up on Roshar. - Ambition was splintered, but unlike Dominion and Devotion. While we know that Odium stuffed those two in the Cognitive Realm to make sure they wouldn't be picked up again, as far as we know he didn't know how to do that yet when he finished off Ambition outside the Threnodite system. So while Ambition is probably spread out in dead chunks of Investiture, someone ambitious enough with a lot of time could try to collect those. - Additionally, Edgli (Endowment) seemed to think that Ambitions last Vessel would've been trouble, and seems glad that she's gone. From different WoB's we know that Sazed's ascension has caused quite a stir, so Kelsier could definitely take up the troublemaking mantle of Uli Da very well. Alright, time for the new arguments and thoughts: Two things are majorly important: - The Ghostbloods are looking for ways to transport Investiture. Ba-Ado-Mishram, Gems, Stormlight... Aside from trying to find a way for their Master to actually move beyond Scadrial, they are looking for ways to transport Investiture. Sure, Money and Power are good motivators, but I think there's a second reason for that: Moving Chunks of Ambition. What would this do for them? Well... Douglas What about a lerasium savant? Or would that require so much lerasium that the person attempting it would ascend to become a new Shardholder? Brandon Sanderson Basically, this is what Ascension is. 17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 27, 2012) I imagine the Plan to go something like this: Step 1: Find a way to store most of the big chunks of Ambition's Investiture. I assume it's not all in the form of Shades, so imagine Gems and whatever stuffed full of Investiture - if necessary, Step 2: Convert it into a Form Thaidakar can use. If Raboniel and Navani can figure out Light physics, I'm sure people in Silverlight or other Scholars somewhere are able to do so too. I'd be surprised if the Ghostbloods didn't have some smart Cosmere Scientists on their Payroll. Convert all that Investiture into solid form: a metal. Uli Dum/Ambitium - Step 3: Kelsier burns massive amounts of Ambitium or an Ambitium/Lerasium Alloy, preferrably physically close to Threnody, somewhere in the system. Once he has burnt enough of it, Kelsier ascends to Ambition. The Investiture that hasn't been collected hopefully realigns itself to its new Vessel, and Kel is a Shard now. Aside from those reasons, just think of how absolutely fitting this would be for Kelsiers Story, both in-universe and Meta, for us readers. Kelsier, the Survivor, survives the most deadly place on Scadrial, the pits of Hathsin, under the rule of an "immortal god-emperor", spiting said Emperor. He goes on to challenge that Emperor, and while dying in the Process, deifies himself as The Survivor, sparking both the Revolt that finally took down the Lord Ruler and a Religion around himself. He Survives Death, and goes on to help out at the other very deadly part of Scadrial, the South, and also kinda becomes the god of the people there after helping them survive. Notice a pattern? What better than to do this a third time? The Survivor, a kinda-ghost kinda-god, focusses his attention on the deadliest planet in the known universe, Threnody. If any one people in the Cosmere is doing more surviving than the South Scadrians, it's definitely the people on Threnody. (Try to tell me Kelsier wouldn't like Silence Montane.) After the disaster of Ruin and Preservation and the prophecy, Scadrial needed a god like Harmony to rest and stabilize under. Threnodys woes aren't over, however. What they need is a fighter god, someone able to take on the Evil. Someone who embodies the Will to Survive that Threnodians need, and the Ambition to pull through with it, to take up a fight this hopeless. a ghost-god that's already fought one immortal evil fits into Threnody well, and it would fit so well into Kelsiers story to do his shtick a third time: Help people survive and become their god. Only this time, it would actually be true, and he'd ascend to Shardhood.
  17. From the album The Stormlight Archive

    Here's another fan art of Shallan. I drew her in Veil's outfit this time because I love the red/white! (Painting her hair was really the best part about this...)
  18. So I was rererererererereading WoR, and I got to the scene where Shallan first meets Mraize and the Ghostbloods. The book describes Mraize's collection of glass boxes holding artifacts that are unfamiliar to Shallan. Here's the exact quote: That second paragraph of stuff, given what we now know about Mraize's off-world hopping, could very well be from somewhere else. (others, I think, have mentioned this). ANyone have any theories, ideas, WoBs, etc relating to this? My guess for the sand would (obviously) be Taldain, because it's white sand, but other than that, I have nothing.
  19. So, recently was thinking back on Brandon's description of the Ghostbloods while talking with the 17th shard. To summarize very very briefly, Brandon mentioned that the people drawn to Kelsier's organization are very cut throat and competitive (much like their leader). However, those that Kelsier handpicks or directly oversea tend to be more along the lines of what we saw in era 1. So, A thought I had was that the organization draws people more innately like Kelsier. Yet, the ones he prefers to serve under him are more like his old crew in that they serve as the brakes to his acceleration. As we saw a lot in the first mistborn book Dox, Ham, Breeze, and Clubs all worked hard to curtail some of Kelsier's worst traits. Now given Kelsier's obvious comfort with his own insanity and his egotism I think he is doubtful to try and work very hard to change that. So instead he essentially hires people out to be his own conscience. Particularly given his natural inclination to like innately good people even while not being one himself. Afterword Thank you to those who read this. Kind of random but I guess I am feeling the withdrawal of cosmere content and wanted to voice some thoughts. If you have comments, contradictions, or just wish to talk more I encourage you to comment. Hope you all have a great day, night, etc. Just keep in mind, "There's always another secret."
  20. Spoilers All Cosmere This is just some crazy tinfoil idea that I had. I've long had a pet theory that Kelsier was connected to another Shard. He has such commitment to his ideals that it speaks of great Intent. He comes off as cocky and self-interested but his willingness to sacrifice himself - and pursue his ideals even thereafter! - shows the depth of his devotion. I used to think that, if he was influenced by a shard, it was probably Bavadin. Her penchant for Investing herself into Avatars is well known. Kelsier's anti-authoritarianism seems pretty Autonomous. And Kel's immidiate antipathy towards Hoid seems rather as if he "has been instilled with an intense and overpowering dislike of" our favorite flautist. This seems a little hard to square with his becoming a ruler (the Sovereign) on Scadrial, and a leader (Thaidakar) to the Ghostbloods. But it's possible. Perhaps there is no greater autonomy than sovereignty. Kelsier created the Bands of Mourning, an artifact so powerful as to grant its user quite a bit of "freedom and self-direction." But of all the questions about the Bands of Mourning, one gets a little lost: Why are they so named? I don't believe that the eponymous book gives an answer. But another text may: Shadows For Silence In The Forest Of Hell. Shadows for Silence is set on the planet Threnody, namesake of the Threnodite system. The other planets in that system include Monody and Elegy. A threnody is "a wailing lament composed or performed as a memorial to a dead person." Both a monody and an elegy are "poems lamenting a person's death." All three of these are examples of mourning. There's no Shard in the Threnodite system now. We know that several Shards were once there - Odium, Ambition, and Mercy. A "wail for the dead" doesn't speak much of Ambition, and though it is Passionate it doesn't really feel like "God's own hatred." Mercy? "Compassion or forgiveness shown toward someone whom it is within one's power to punish or harm." That doesn't sound much like a death-song - and it sounds nothing like Kelsier. In the Threnodite system, then, one of two things seems likely. The first possibility is that the planets are named for some other Shard. Perhaps this is one of the two we haven't encountered - maybe it is the Shard of Grief? Maybe Memory? The second possibility is that this system was created, or at least deeply touched, by all three of the shards which once resided there: Odium, Ambition, and Mercy. What do you get when you mix striving, passion, and forgiveness? I think that you would get the creation, of a song, of mourning. Perhaps Kelsier is touched by something from these worlds. Kelek's Breath but there are enough Cognitive Shadows running around Threnody! And we know that the Selish Ire have set up pickets around Scadrial's subastral specifically to prevent Threnodite Shades from coming through via Shadesmar. And we know that Kelsier had a deeply transformative experience when he was enslaved in the Pits of Hathsin - the Lord Ruler's prison, the source of all atium, but also a Perpendiculatiry. Maybe a Shade got through the Ire's picket and touched Kelsier. Maybe it was more than one of the apparently simple-minded Shades we see in Shadows for Silence. Perhaps all of the Shades of Threnody contain portions of the three Shards we know were present there. Maybe they contain an especially large portion of Ambition, since Uli Da was the one so wounded there. One part hatred, three parts self-striving, and one part "a desire to relieve suffering." ...that sounds a lot like Kelsier to me.
  21. From the album Memes!

  22. I am currently on my first read-through of Oathbringer and in chapter 22, The Darkness Within, Adolin brings Shallan along to talk to Ialai about Sadeas' murder, and then Shallan and Mraize go off to talk to each other. I haven't finished this chapter yet because I am completely blanking on when Shallan actually revealed herself as Shallan to Mraize. I have a vague memory of some interaction between them, but I really have no clue when this happened. If someone could just explain this to me or tell me where to look back to, it would really be great.
  23. This is the first post this long that I make here, and it probably sounds weird, but it's because I'm using Google Translate and my language is Spanish. Well, I've seen that for quite some time now, Kelsier has earned a reputation as a "psychopath" and a "villain", even affirmed by Brandon himself. But being more objective, I feel like that reputation is undeserved, although I agree that Kell is self-centered and an anti-hero because of his circumstances. Getting to the point, some examples of why Kelsier can't be a psychopath are: * He hates nobles (as Marsh hates obligators) because they murdered his mother when they found out that she was a skaa and not a noble. Killing so many nobles may have been ruthless, but really Kelsier had that hatred because he loved his mother, and it's no different than Kaladin's hatred for lighteyes due to the death of Tien and the people he couldn't protect, and Kal is not a psychopath for it (he suffers from depression but it is something radically different). * Kelsier really loves his friends, he is uncompromisingly loyal and literally went to his death to protect his friends (Spook, OreSeur and the other prisoners). * Kelsier really loved Mare, he always says it and it shows that it is true, an example of this is the beginning of Eleventh Metal (destroyed by her death) and then in a couple of conversations with Vin at TFE. A psychopath CANNOT love, and when he is with someone, he does it for convenience and thanks to manipulations, since he has a total lack of empathy. * Kelsier's powers as Mistborn appeared from the pain of Mare's death. * Kelsier really admires good people, according to WoB, although Kell is not quite a good person, but none of that means he is a psychopath and Dark Lord. * Kelsier feels guilty when Vin was nearly killed by the inquisitors at Kredik Shaw, and a psychopath cannot feel guilty for his actions. * Kelsier feels pain and sadness for the deaths of the army in TFE, then for the deaths of Dockson and Elend, and also for the comments of Ati before going to the Ire fortress. In particular, he feels pain, sadness and anger over the supposed death of Marsh, whom he loved for being his brother despite their differences (situation and subsequent revenge similar to what happened with his mother). * After Vin was nearly killed by the inquisitors at Kredik Shaw, we are emphasized a million times that Kelsier became a much more thoughtful and better person, reaching the point where he did not kill nobles indiscriminately, saved the Elend's life and after Secret History, we see that he stopped having that hatred with which he killed nobles. * According to Vin, when she and Kelsier visited skaa in the evenings, she felt that Kelsier genuinely loved and cared about skaa, and she probably did with Southerners as well. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Brandon's work and in general I agree and impressed with the construction of his characters, but Kelsier's bad reputation seems undeserved, and besides, there are main characters with actions that are as questionable or more despicable than Kelsier, for example: * Wax feels no guilt in killing criminals. * Kaladin had a fierce hatred of lighteyes, which he overcame, just as Kelsier largely overcame his hatred of nobles. * Vin didn't feel guilty about killing koloss and inquisitors (although she did feel guilty about doing extreme killings, like the one she did with Zane), but herself, she was also an assassin. * Elend felt no guilt in killing enemy koloss, inquisitors, and soldiers, plus in HoA he became a (but necessary) tyrant. * Marsh hated obligors in a similar way to Kelsier with nobles (said by Marsh himself in TFE). * And finally the most questionable of all, Dalinar. He was literally a tyrant and genocidal, he killed thousands and thousands of people to unify Aletzkhar, even burning an entire city, killing hundreds of people in each battle and enjoying the bloodbath (The Thrill is not an excuse, it is not like Ruin controlling the inquisitors, but rather like emotional allomancy, nothing to do with a control of people but igniting something they already feel). Dalinar is a great character but Kelsier did not kill a small part of what Dalinar did, who is not a psychopath and is redeemed despite carrying thousands and thousands of deaths on his back. I also don't think that the fact that Kelsier is a Cognitive Shadow makes him a villain, evil, or psychopath. He's only been around for 300 years and in the comfort of Scadrial. While, that the Cognitive Shadows that are crazy are the Heralds due to THOUSANDS of years of torture in Braize, in addition to that they have been 7000 years old, and Kelsier only 300 which is only about 5% that the Heralds. I really like that Kelsier is the leader of the Ghostbloods, I think his crew was the antecedent of the organization, and that after the Catacendre and Spook bringing Kelsier to the Physical Realm with hemalurgy, the first Ghostbloods were Kell and Spook as leaders, Ham, Breeze, Allrianne, Beldre, Cett, Noorden, maybe Yomen and Marsh, and probably Felt. (Also, that would leave us with that The Set is a reaction to the Ghostbloods, and that in Scadrial both organizations have a feud like the Ghostbloods with the Sons of Honor in Roshar). The problem is that Mraize is despicable and that if Kelsier were in Roshar, the Ghostbloods would be less questionable, but hey, Mraize's actions DO NOT DEFINE the entire organization or Kelsier himself. In closing, I thank those who have read this far. I think Kelsier is seen as "evil" right now but remember that the information is given by two really questionable people and they are probably worse than Kelsier: Kalak and our beloved Cephandrius. I hope Brandon amazes us with Kelsier's handling of Stormlight 5, Wax and Wayne 4, and Mistborn Era 3, and that he applies the Lord of the Scars mantra. There is always another secret.
  24. RoW spoilers within One fine day, in a lavish manor on the lovely world of Eddings, three tricksters gathered. There they came to a decision that was to them of little consequence, but of great import to the multiverse and all who dwelled therein. For on this day Prince Kheldar of Drasnia, David Xanatos of New York, and Kelsier of Scadrial, determined to rob the multiverse, for the sole purpose of alleviating their collective boredom. Chaos and Mayhem ensue as the grand tapestry upon which all stories written and unwritten dwell was promptly torn to shreds. And so we begin. The first target: The world of Harry Potter. Silk (aka. Prince Kheldar), native of Drasnia on Eddings, the world of the Belgariad. Quick witted and sharp tongued, he’s his nation’s greatest spy and he’s helped save the world twice. The richest man on his homeworld, he’s married to fellow spy Velvet (aka. Liselle) and has a young child. His half brother, Urgit, is the king of Murgos and his cousin Kheva is King of Drasnia. Played by @Lecky Twig David Xanatos, native of New York on Earth-G, the world of Gargoyles. A suave and wealthy businessman, he has few morals and fewer compunctions, particularly when pursuing power. Currently nominally on the side of good, after an extended period of villainy. Inventor of the Xanatos Gambit (TM), he is happily to married to fellow trickster Fox, and has a young son, Alexander. He is aided and abetted by his loyal servant, Owen. Played by @Narcoleptic Axolotl Kelsier, native of pre-Catascande Scadrial in the Cosmere, the starcluster where Mistborn, Stormlight and several other Sanderson stories take place. (But you know this, don’t you? You should; this IS the 17th Shard.) Charming and charismatic, he’s been a conman, a revolutionary, a god, and currently runs his universe’s version of the mafia. He’s also trapped on his homeworld, much to his annoyance. Played by me, Kingsdaughter613. I’m putting this here because obviously we’re going to bring up the Kelsier - Thaidakar thing. Once the spoiler period is over this can be moved to the RP boards (or earlier, if the mods say it’s okay.) If anyone would like to join you are welcome to PM me. You are welcome to offer to play various characters in the different worlds the trio visits, members of their respective supporting casts, or additional tricksters - if you can convince me that they’re of a similar bent as these three dastards. @Lecky Twig We’re in Silk’s home, so you get to start us off.
  25. Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but I am relistening to Oathbringer in preparation for RoW, and I noticed when Shallan sees Mraize while he is undercover with Sadeas' troops that Mraize has a green chicken with a wicked looking beak. Could this be an aviar from First of the Sun?