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We know that Kelsier is Thaidakar. That's what they call it in Roshar. Perhaps Thaidakar means Survivor in a Scadrial language, and from the point of view of the inhabitants of Roshar it is understood as Thaidakar, because it is an extraterrestrial word. Perhaps the origin of the name Thaidakar was already explained in Lost Metal, but I have not read it.

How big are the ghost bloods? Mraize said they are most powerful organization in the cosmere, implying that they are immense. Mraize also gives us a chain of command. Mraize -> Iyatil -> Thaidakar This either means that Mraize is very high up in the Ghostbloods, or they aren’t that big. Which is it?

NOTE: This post contains some spoilers for the story "The Emperor's Soul" and the Mistborn books including Secret History I recently started rereading some of the other Cosmere books after RoW (Elantris, Mistborn, portions of Arcanum Unbounded). After reading "The Emperor's Soul" I have come to a conclusion that I sure hope is true. After the big reveal in Rhythm of War regarding Thaidakar's identity, I am convinced that Shai is going to turn up as a Ghostblood. There are a few reasons for this: 1) Shai is the perfect crew member for Kelsier - Kelsier has a penchant for gathering specialists in every arena, and no one is a greater specialist in Forging than Shai. Even beyond using the actual magical skill of Forging, she is stunningly skilled in overall forgery and subterfuge of many types that would deeply interest Kel. 2) Like Kel, Shai has issues with Hoid - We know from "The Emperor's Soul" that Shai ended up being captured in the first place because Hoid sold her out (as the Imperial Fool, aka Wit 1.0) in order to steal the Moon Scepter, a sort of key to access all of the investiture related powers on Sel. She is on a mission to hunt him down. We know Kel & Hoid also have potential unfinished business after their volatile confrontation at The Well of Ascension. The enemy of my enemy is my friend--Kel & Shai are natural allies. 3) Sel might be the easiest planet for Kel to worldhop to--or at least meet Shai from - I say "easy" with caution due to the dangerous nature of worldhopping to Sel (due to the investiture storm caused by the splinters of Devotion & Dominion in the cognitive realm), but we know from Secret History that the IRE were able to set up a base (theoretically connected to the Dor somehow--long extension cord? ) on the edge of Scadrial's portion of Shadesmar. This begs the question if Scadrial is "close" to Sel's Shadesmar. We still don't know how someone would worldhop to Sel, but it seems reasonable that either A) Kel might have figured out how to do so, B ) He at least got to Sel's Shadesmar zone (perhaps to some sort of safe haven there?), or C) Shai managed to worldhop somehow and they met elsewhere. Addendum: We know the Ghostbloods have connections on Sel. It is also significant that Mraize has a Seon which further connects them to that world. 4) They share a unique connection in their scars - It really stood out to me this time that Shai shares a unique trait with Kel--the arm scars left on her by the Bloodsealer's cuts. She was cut every single day over the course of around 90-something days. Kel's title as Lord of Scars may be a point of interesting connection with Shai. 5) She would make quite the formidable foil to Shallan - The similarities between forgery and both lightweaving & soulcasting are striking. Shai is a considerable con-artist even without Forgery, but if she & or Kel were to figure out how to overcome the connection problem with Sel (something we already know Kel is interested in and may have figured out related to the discovery of those Nicrosil excisor medallions), she might be able to access Forgery to a limited degree off-world. Shai and Shallan are both artists, both talented at disguise, and both have the ability to affect the souls of objects in different ways. With Shallan having potentially allied with Wit rather than Thaidakar, a conflict could be very interesting. 6) We know that Brandon has confirmed Shai will show up again--potentially as a worldhopper - The Cosmere has grown much more complex since some of the big reveals in Rhythm of War. Of all the various factions at work among the Cosmere-aware, the Ghostbloods seems the most likely one to match Shai's skills and personality as opposed to the 17th Shard, IRE, etc. We know she's showing up again--while anything can happen, this theory seems like a strong possibility. What are your thoughts? Any other connections (or things I totally missed)?

Welcome to the Ghostbloods. We are a league of specialized assassins for hire. If you would like to hire a member refer to the first spoiler. If you would like to join please see the second spoiler. Hire an assassin or other services Join the Ghostbloods Ghostblood Ranks Members Member Rules Guild Relations (Everything is subject to edits)

Wait! Ishar has been trying to bring spren into the physical realm. Kelsier is a CS and very similar to a spren. What would whatever Ishar is doing do to Kelsier? Would it bring him back to life? Will the Ghostbloods find out and try to steal his research to bring Kelsier out of the cognitive? I needed to get this out there in a moment of grand inspiration. Someone bring this up to BS tomorrow in the livestream if I am unable to! Edit: I was able to ask the question and get an answer, which was yes, this would help him, in a roundabout way.

First of all, thanks to the guys on Discord (particularly @Pagerunner and @Windrunner) for pointing out that a small Ghostblood symbol can be seen among Shallan's sketches of Shadesmar spren. You can check it out in the illustration right before Chapter 108. As someone who tried and failed to guess the nature of the symbol twice (here and here), allow me to post a somewhat cleaner version of the actual symbol for everyone's enjoyment: As you can see, it does reflect both the WoK description ("three diamonds in a pattern, overlapping one another") and the WoR description ("triangle"). Apparently Isaac had to do multiple drafts of the symbol, and we even had a detailed description of one of the candidates that looked totally different from how it eventually ended up. Here's a version of the symbol that shows one way to draw it in one stroke, and I colored it in a way I thought was appropriate (Ghost=grey, Blood=red):

Just below drawing of a person

This is just a small bit of last-minute speculation before Oathbringer arrives. I've had a Ghostblood Symbol-related idea before that was already debunked, so I thought might as well attempt a second one. This time, one of my inspirations came from an unexpected place: a Sharder's profile photo. Specifically, @Aon Ati's profile photo, which I noticed just a few hours ago. Admittedly I had totally forgotten what Aon Ati looked like, and when I saw that picture it simply blew my mind. It felt like a Eureka moment in my quest for deciphering the Ghostblood symbol. But another major thing that led to this idea came to me last year via a different Aon. Part I: Aon Ire The truth is that I've never really bothered to analyze the shape and forms of the Aons before. Old-timers like me remember other people's futile attempts at connecting Aon Ati with the Vessel Ati before, and because of this I tended to shy away from Aons in general, especially their off-world potential. But in reality, Aonic symbolism has in fact traveled across planets at least once. In particular, we know that there is a Scadrian version of Aon Ire. Of course, it's perfectly possible that the steelified Ire symbol doesn't really exist in-universe and was just something Isaac and Brandon thought up to symbolize in a way familiar to Mistborn readers the group of mysterious beings who call themselves Ire, but at least it sets a precedent for the idea of Aons being seen in a non-Selish cosmere story. Take note that Kelsier actually sees Aon Ire in his head when he hears Alonoe say her group's name: We'll come back to this later on. Meanwhile, let's get to the meat of this theory. Part II: Aon Ati You've already seen what Aon Ati looks like, and if you've been paying attention to your Stormlight symbology, you'd know that the Ghostblood symbol has been described as three interlocking diamonds. This similarity (which I first noticed when I saw that profile photo) is what led me to my theory: The Ghostblood symbol was derived from Aon Ati. But obviously it's not exactly Aon Ati as the Elantrians knew it. For one, it doesn't have the dots. Based on @Viridian's report, the Ghostblood symbol also differs from Aon Ati in that its diamonds are arranged horizontally instead of vertically. So it's not exactly Aon Ati, but is rather a slight modification. Just like how the Steel alphabet version of Ire is a modification that relates to a Scadrian writing system (the Steel alphabet), I speculate that the Ghosblood symbol is a form of Ati made to look like some sort of Rosharan writing. (Edit: Thanks to @Iridium Savant's comment below, I now realize the Ghostblood symbol looks like Women's Script, which in hindsight I should have noticed.) The differences between the original Aon and the "localized" version aren't even that big, but the truth is I wouldn't have entertained this idea at all without my prior thoughts about Aon Ire's appearance in a Scadrial story. Because there is another connection there: We know that Aon Ati represents the concept of Hope. Well, there is another entity in the cosmere that (ostensibly) represents hope, one who had prior encounters with Elantrian magic and likely learned more about it later on, one who by the way is as deceptive and as ruthless (likely more so) as any Ghostblood member we've seen so far: (Edit: I compiled a few more interesting instances of Kelsier reinforcing his claim of representing hope in M:SH in a reply below.) Wouldn't it be interesting if Kelsier really is the one in charge of the Ghostbloods? I mean, it already has at least one Scadrian among its ranks. This makes me even more curious about what that "Thaidakar" guy looks like...

I didn't see a topic for this, but please enlighten me if I'm wrong. I am naming it somewhat obliquely because there used to be a "feature" that allowed the titles of spoiler threads to appear in non-spoiler forums. I think I must have missed a part of Shallan's previous story where she observed this for herself, but if it's news to others, then there is the question of whether it's real. Edit: This was all I found (Chapter 13), and it doesn't seem as clear as Mraize claims: So the first issue I have is that the Ghostbloods believe: So the darkness and wrongness of this place are not on the axis of morality? They must be power, because they don't seem like loyalty to me. Whatever, the Ghostbloods don't make sense to me. Anyhoo, on to the hopefully answerable questions. I have learned so much from the 17th Shard hivemind and I understand so little that I thought to call on you again: Does this darkness relate to the stones being Unhallowed that Szeth could walk on them? Is this darkness part of why the Radiants abandoned it? Did the darkness contribute to Adolin losing control and killing Torol Sadeas? Is this malign influence encouraging further mayhem? Is it behind the replicated murders? Is it Odious, independent or an effect of the Oathpact? What is it's nature? Does Urithiru have a spren? Edit: Shallan can't draw it. She couldn't draw Cryptics, either. Probably not related, but perhaps similar cognitive causes. What are the even better questions that I have missed? Thanks!

There is no reference in the books directly linking the two but I got a feeling that these might be the same person. Am I alone in this?

QF22: Ghosts in the Night Or: Two-Headed Elimination The Ghostbloods are well-known for being a secretive organisation. It could be said that this secrecy is the only reason they have existed for such a long period of time. They carefully pick and choose their people, evaluating each individually before adding them to their members. They operate in small groups, each only aware of the one they report to and the others in their group. Everything has been done to minimise risk should one of their number be caught. The secrecy the organisation has thrived on has now bled completely through into the very lives of their members. It is said that a half-decent Ghostblood could walk out the door, and suddenly they would be a completely different person. A different face, different hair, all changed within a matter of seconds. It is for this reason that they are known as ghosts, an ethereal presence that many doubt even exists. But through time, they have become complacent, and their hidden nature has started to work against them. Their recruitment methods have become lax, slowly, and they have been infiltrated by their enemies. The Sons of Honour walk amongst their members, their own secrecy preventing them from finding out who they are. The order came down from someone - who, no-one knew - to purge the Ghostbloods of these people. The ghosts are grim, but determined in their task. The Sons of Honour are their enemy, they know this, and if they are left unanswered, they will slowly dismantle the organisation from within. They must be eradicated before that can happen, if the organisation is to have any chance to survive. In the quiet, forgettable town that this division operates in, an unnatural hush has fallen over the night. The normal folk go about uneasy, keenly aware that something is not right but unable to figure out what it is and entirely powerless to stop it. Within the houses, Ghostblood agents make careful plans to deal with the threat from the Sons of Honour, using their skills of subterfuge and skullduggery to fool their neighbours, friends, and even their family. But when every potential threat in the town is two-faced, how can one tell who is a friend, and more importantly, who is a foe? The Rules The variant is the same as a normal set of Elimination, but with one major difference; At the beginning of the game, the GM assigns half the players to be Day Players, and half the players to be Night Players. Players are then paired up, Day/Night, until everyone is in a pair (all pairs will be completely Village or completely Eliminator). In the event of an odd number of players, one player is both Day and Night. Day Players may not post in the main thread unless it is the Day, and vice versa. The pairings between players are hidden, and only the player knows who their partner is. However, all players start the game aware of whether each player is a Day or Night Player. Each player pair shares an Alignment and has the same Role, and they share a Role/Action PM. If a player dies, then the paired player dies with them. Day Players may not talk in PMs unless it is with their pair. Players may talk to their other half via the PM, regardless of whether it is a Day or Night Turn. In the event of one half becoming inactive for a complete Cycle within both thread and PMs, the active half may request to the GM that they take over both Day and Night. This will be stated to happen publicly if it occurs. During the Day, Day Players can discuss in the thread and place votes for another Day Player to lynch. Night Players cannot be voted for. This Turn will last for 48 hours. During the Night, Night Players may target other Night Players with their Action and if PMs are open, talk to other Night Turn players. Day Players cannot be talked to via PM or targeted by Actions. This Turn lasts 24 hours. There are no cross-Turn Actions. It is possible that the game will be Role Madness, but not by any means definite. Rollover will be at 9PM GMT, and the game will begin on Tuesday 14th at 9PM GMT. Roles Assassin - The Assassin's job for the Ghostbloods is to take out anyone who may be a threat. They have the ability to use a Kill Action every Night. Backup - The Backup has been trained in one of the other Roles, but lacks the go-ahead to use his skills. If a player with the Role that the Backup has dies, then a Backup is randomly selected among the eligible Backups to become that Role. The Backup Role cannot be detected until they become that Role. The Backup is aware of their Role. Hired Goon - The Hired Goon's job is to be a target while other Ghostbloods carry out a mission, and is hardened and tough in combat. The Thug's first death is nullified. Messenger - While at least one Messenger is alive, players may send messages to other players within their Turn. Shadow - The Shadow is able to conceal his own nature, and potentially that of another as well. Players targeted by the Shadow's ability cannot have their Day Player, Alignment or Role discovered. Spy - Who said that the Ghostbloods didn't have their own agents amongst the Sons of Honour? Each Night, the Spy may dig up information on a player, confirming whether or not they are a Son of Honour. Stalker - The Stalker is able to stealthy follow a player back home each Night, and is informed the identity that they go by during the Day. Strategist - The Strategist is privy to knowledge that most are not. Each Night, they may use their Action to discover another player's Role in the organisation. Surgeon - The Surgeon's task is to prevent the deaths of the Ghostbloods. They may save a player (excluding themselves) from death each Night. Alas, despite the theme of the game, Kas is buried in work, so I have no co-GM. Anyone want to volunteer? Mission Countdown Quick Links: Player List

From the Way of Kings, we know that the Ghostblood symbol is composed of three diamonds that overlap each other. In Words of Radiance, it is described as a triangle (I hope nobody considers that a spoiler). I tried looking for fanart depicting this, but all I can find is this (from the Stormlight Archive Wikia): I have two problems with this: First, the first diamond doesn't overlap with the third (breaking the "overlapping with each other" rule). Second, the symbol isn't at all triangular. Unless this was confirmed by Brandon to be accurate, I'm gonna have to conclude that this isn't the Ghostblood symbol. Earlier today it came to me that the symbol might be based on Borromean rings, three rings linked to each other. Googling for "Borromean diamonds" gave me this (from this page by an origami artist named Francis Ow): Now that's more like it! Just change the colors so that it looks sinister instead of girly and it would be perfect. Notice that the center is a hexagon, and six is the number Shash, the number of Blood. Also, the number three (three diamonds, and the vaguely triangular shape), Chach, is the number of Spark, the Essence of souls. Soul + Blood is... Ghostblood! What do you guys think? Is this similar to your conception of the Ghostblood symbol? I could try making my own (less bright and less pink) version of this, but I know quite a few Sharders who are very talented artistically. Any of you guys want to help? Edit: I just realized that "Borromean rings" is not strictly synonymous with interlocked rings. Borromean rings are arranged such that removing one ring results in two non-interlocked rings, whereas something like gimmal rings, for example, are strictly interlocked. The origami above isn't even Borromean; the creator calls them "interwoven diamonds". Forgive me for using the wrong terminology! *bows head in shame* Update: Here are some low-quality images I made of the pattern/symbol. Update: Brandon says my idea is not correct. Oh well.

I've been thinking about the Ghostblood's dealings with Amaram, and I'm completely stumped as to what they might want with him, other than using his information to get to Urithiru. In WoK, Amaram assumes that it was the Ghostblood's trying to assassinate him, when Mraize says that Heleran had sought out the Skybreakers (WoR Chapter 88 The Man Who Owned the Winds.) And there's other evidence that shows the Ghostbloods weren't trying to hurt him or have him assassinated: Later in chapter 88, we have the attack on Amaram: Clearly this is Iyatil. But I don't think the intention was for the dart to kill Amaram. I think it's a safe assumption that it was a similar poison on the dart shot at Amaram. Granted Shallan only assumes the poison isn't killing the mink slowly, and just stunning it, but considering the first quote on Amaram, I doubt it was a lethal poison. So why are the Ghostblood's so interested in Amaram? His connection to the Sons of Honor and their motives? More importantly, why were they trying to kidnap him? And what does Mraize know about Amaram's death? Who is it that he's referencing to, and why does Amaram's life belong to them? Edit: I just realized that I made this post when my reputation level was Ghostblood. Unintentional win!

Ok, so this idea started out as a discussion with Moogle about calling the theory that Shallan's brother, Nan Helaran, was the shardbearer which Kaladin killed in the Amaram battle. Moogle is very convinced that this theory is accurate. Of course that is fine. My intent is not to disprove that theory, but rather to construct an alternative scenario which fits the evidence we have thus far. This all started out as just tossing an idea out there and it gradually became a compelling chain of plausible events in its own right. So, to start, I will present the evidence Moogle presented to establish the shardbearer theory (bear with me, this will be a long post): Shallan's father was a member of the Ghostbloods. Even her father's advisor - the steward who was also a member of the Ghostbloods -- didn't know more than Helaran. That implies he was in heavy with his father, which probably means he was in the Ghostbloods. Quote -Kaladin scene with the Shardbearer attacking Amaram, which happened one year ago, the time when Shallan's brother was missing for a short while then declared dead. Quote Shallan is Veden. Ergo, her brother would be Veden. The Shardbearer who attacked Amaram was Veden and unknown. Shallan's family is rural, and thus their appearances would not be readily recognized. Again, it's not certain, but you basically have to propose Brandon is attempting to trick us with red herrings here. If that doesn't convince you, I don't think anything will short of a direct book confirmation. So, this evidence truly does fit the prevailing theory quite nicely (hence it being the prevailing theory). So, in the words of Clue, "That's how it could have happened". But, what about this: Luesh, a member of a secret organization known as the Ghostbloods was employed as steward to the head of House Davar, a Veden noble house. The Ghostbloods, who have a specific and active agenda, are seeking to increase their power and political influence. As a means of achieving this goal, the Ghostbloods seek to put a sympathizer in place as a high prince of Vedenar. Luesh informs the Ghostbloods that House Davar is has traveled far down the road to dire financial straits and therefore provides the Ghostbloods with an opening. The Ghostbloods come to an agreement with house Davar to provide him with financial backing with the goal of House Davar claiming a vulnerable Veden highprincedom in return for certain political influence and favors. The Ghostbloods cannot simply provide House Davar with direct financial backing, this would draw too much attention as well as raise uncomfortable questions regarding the source of this sudden wealth. It is decided that the Ghostbloods will provide House Davar with a soulcasting fabrial to produce valuable mineral deposits on Davar lands that House Davar will then be able to exploit an monetize on the open market. That way, there is an obvious, verifiable, and 'legitimate' source for the new Davar wealth. However, the Ghostbloods get something else in the bargain as well. The use of soulcasters in this fashion is forbidden and thus the Ghostbloods have additional leverage over House Davar. Time passes and the head of House Davar brings his son and heir Nan Helaran in on his plans. However, either immediately or over time Nan Helaran rejects these plans and becomes a liability to the Ghostbloods. He must be silenced. He suddenly and inexplicably 'disappears' and is never heard from again. About a year later, the head of house Davar is dead. The new heir, Nan Balat, is brought up to speed by the steward Luesh on what his father was up to. Nan Balat shares this info with his siblings and the family craps a collective brick when it is discovered that the extraordinarily valuable soulcaster is no longer working. Attempts are made to repair it to no avail. A desperate and dangerous plan to save the family is decided upon with Luesh, the Ghostblood family steward, having divided loyalties between the Ghostbloods and the Davar children, complicit in this plan. During the course of this plan, the Ghostbloods, knowing that the Davar patriarch is dead, send enforcer agents to Nan Balat to demand that the soulcaster is returned to the organization. After all, such a threat is more effective if made by someone unknown and more threatening than good old Luesh whom the children have known for so many years. Later, the Ghostbloods learn of Luesh's duplicity and take actions to address his betrayal which result in Luesh's death. So, that is the scenario. In conjunction with this scenario neither Helaran nor his father need be actual members of the Ghostbloods. Conservation of characters and the fact that the shardbearer Kaladin killed was Veden are the best evidences for the prevailing theory over another alternative. But inter-tangling the character's side stories too much begins to make things hokey in my view. It gets to the point where it is discovered that Han Solo is actually the son of Amidala's secret lover who secretly hoped that his son would one day marry Amidala's unborn daughter. Besides, this is a 10 volume epic. There is a lot of room for additional significant characters (including a Veden shardbearer who is a Ghostblood). It has been posited that if the shardbearer was not Helaran, than why would the Ghostbloods risk sending a Veden shardbearer into an Alethi border conflict. To this I have two responses: 1) Sending a mounted shardbearer into an Alethi border conflict (which will be fought largely by second tier soldiers and no other shardbearers) would not likely be considered a particularly big risk. Add to that, the way Kaladin killed him was extraordinary and would never have been considered a significant possibility. Especially since the shardbearer did not enter the fray until Amaram's forces were routed. 2) This is kind of a straw man argument, the fact is whether or not the shardbearer was Helaran, the shardbearer was in fact Veden. Helaran or not, the Ghostbloods sent a Veden shardbearer. Again, my purpose is not to contest that the shardbearer was Shallan's brother, but rather to propose a reasonable alternative relying upon the same evidence. I actually have no opinion on this theory at all except that I don't think the evidence is particular strong (compelling, yes) to support any idea currently set forth to the extent that alternative theories are particularly unlikely.