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Found 48 results

  1. Throughout the Stormlight Archive, Gavilar does a bunch of different things, he unifies Alethkar, but also brings back the voidbringers and the desolations. Although he does this to restart the knights radiant, you have to wonder whether all of that bloodshed was necessary. There is also the fact that he looks up to the Sunmaker, who is genocidal tyrant, and yet is still looked up to. I'm just curious what your opinions are.
  2. I noticed some continuity errors in the SLA5 prologue read by Brandon. 1. Several times in the previous 4 books, Dalinar thinks to himself how Gavilar considered Taravangian a friend, there’s a heavy implication that they spent a great deal of time together. But Gavilar in the prologue was surprised to see Taravangian at their meeting, it was the first time he attended, and he did not know him well. 2. In the same vein, Tarvangian mentions in one of the previous books how knowledge of Gavilars visions helped inform the diagram- but given the events of the prologue- there’s no way Tarvangian could have had access to those visions or any knowledge of them. 3. Aesudan, in Oathbringer, tells Elhokar that she was finishing his fathers work. They he had found a spren, but couldn’t figure out how to bond it. That’s never mentioned in the prologue. Void light and anti-void light are, but there’s no mention of finding, having or attempting to bond with a void spren. In essence 1 and 2 reveal that the relationship between Gavilar and Taravangian was deeper than the prologue indicated. I’d report this directly to Brandon’s team, but I do not know how to contact them. I can find the exact passages quotes given a bit of time to find them.
  3. So, does anyone else thinks that Gavilar wasn't actually looking towards bringing something like Everstorm, but just looking to free all singers from their bondage? As we know Restares is Kelek who, from the epigraphs, knew about the effect of Ba-ado-Mishram's imprisonment on Roshar and perhaps guessed that Radiants gave up their powers for this reason (probably) as they felt guilty for causing such drastic change to Roshar and its native population. So he decided to restore the singers and the only way to do that was to bring back Taln from Braize, thereby freeing fused and suing for peace. He had anti-voidlight already prepared and ready to destroy fused as a backup incase they don't work with him. It's such a marvel that we still can't figure out what Gavilar wanted. While he was an asshole towards his family, may be here he wanted to do something good. What do you people think?
  4. The Shard Plate and Blade(Firestorm) of Gavilar Kholin
  5. I didn't spot a specific mention of this, and it might even be a mistake, but it's interesting to me that Gavilar identifies the "sinuous, curved Blade" as belonging to Jezrien. This seems a little at odds with existing descriptions of Jezrien's blade ("thin, silvery weapon... an unornamented blade" WoR Ch 187) ("long, slender...largely unornamented" OB Ch 122), but more in line with the description of Ishar's blade (in RoW Ch 111) as, "a sinuous Shardblade lined with glyphs." Others noted that Gavilar doesn't seem to recognise Jezrien's blade when wielded by Szeth, which he ought to if he's seen the visions so many times. He also doesn't recognise Szeth using the powers of a windrunner, which I was also shown in the vision that featured midnight essence, IIRC. Furthermore, the SF reacts negatively (with a hiss) to Gavilar treating the blade cavalierly. Thinking about this led me down a rabbit-hole of what-ifs, but I think the above is fairly evidence based, while the rabbit-hole is a lot more guessy, and I'm interested to here what people think of the above.
  6. So everyone is expecting some sort of juicy plot reveal from gavilar's prologue. I mean it has to right? We have been building towards this for 4 books, slowly getting more and more info about this guy and we will finally know what he was thinking from his own point of view. But that would undermine the structure of a Brandon Sanderson book. His books almost always have big plot twists and mystery, even for how the magic system works. A wave of knowledge hits us at the end, appropriately called 'Sanderlanche'. Gavilar is too connected to crucial things. Even a small lore reveal might end up being a lot. For ex, he is connected to thaidakar and ghostblood, he knows about anti light, he probably knows ba ado mishram, he knew the heralds somehow, taravangian met him that day??, Whether or not he actually died, how to go to braize, axindweth and what her deal is. So many things that could be revealed in the prologue of the book. All those things are probably crucial to the ending. So I think Brandon will choose to be vague about most of this stuff. Also Brandon releases preview chapters before hand, so we really can't give too much away, as the fandom will have months to decode the chapters. So what will we see then? I think we will get very interesting revelations that might not effect the plot of the fifth book, instead it will recontextualize the major plot beats from the previous books. These reveals will serve to show more of Gavilar's character 1) Jasnah: We will see that Gavilar knew very well that Jasnah was trying to kill Aesudan that night. How does he know? Through Liss. We know that Liss has a agreement with Jasnah about if someone else tried to hire Liss against The kholin family. I think Gavilar already had the same agreement with liss and hence Liss tells him. Liss does this because 'a repeat customer' is more valuable to her.(a quote from the book). Gavilar is the type of guy who would be a repeat customer. How would he know Liss? Through Nale. We know Nale is abnormally interested in szeth. And szeth was Lisa's servant for some reason. Or it could be that nale found out about szeth through Liss, both ways work. We will also find out Gavilar was slowly grooming Jasnah to join Sons of Honor. This is why he suddenly he suddenly shows a scholarly side to him to Jasnah the months before his death. This works on Jasnah only because her childhood madness was a clear shame to Gavilar and she probably deep down wants his love more than anyone else. His respect for her mind, something she has built her identity around( being rational at all times) would only reinforce this. He may have also caused her mission to 'protect the family' discreetly. Maybe through the ghostbloods? We know Jasnah and ghostbloods are fighting for some unspecified reason 2) Amaram: He is trying to marry off Jasnah and Amaram to strengthen both of their connections to his organisation. But Amaram is a pawn. I am sure Gavilar knows who Nale is atleast( even if not Resteres/Kalak). Amaram doesn't. Because Gavilar isn't very religious, he doesn't care about the heralds coming back. He only cares about causing the desolation to make himself a god or a legend. So he lies to Amaram 3)Aesudan: She will be revealed to be a envisager( a splinter group of sons of honor) who defected to Gavilar because of ambition. She knew about his unmade.( I also won't be surprised if Gavilar told Liss to go ahead with the assassination anyway, as she was ambitious) I always found it wierd that Aesudan and Hesina were related (WoB). Aesudan is part darkeye, Hesina is part lighteye. They sing the same song once. Hesina doesn't seem to mind kal being a radiant even though she knows about spren a lot so u would think she is religious. She also suggests kal to become a stormwarden and even kal gets scared, because its very similar to telling the future. Envisage means 'to tell the future'. Teft even theorizes about envisagers in RoW, but it's left unanswered. Maybe these connections are important 4) Axindweth: In Row flashback, Axindweth writes in a letter that Gavilar's own feruchemist spotted her. I don't believe this at all because Axindweth was a part of Gavilar's party to parshendi expeditionto begin with. She is the only character to have explicit rings on her hand, it would be wierd to reveal another feruchemist in that party. Let's remember, Gavilar wants the desolation to happen. He has no real need to stop Axindweth from helping Ulim and Venli. Unless, she is working with Gavilar and stopped at his orders because of Nale. Nale did seem to somehow know that Ulim was in the palace that night. This is why Gav tells her to immediately stop bringing more voispren. He is secretly helping the fused come back. How does Gavilar know about Axindweth? Through Ghostbloods of course. He probably was a member himself, betrayed them and also stole Axindweth 5) Parshendi: He wants to fight with the Parshendi because of their unique dawnsinging magic that Venli saw. 6) Navani: They might confirm that he has Breaths( as he sensed her). He might also be shown to be intensely jealous of Dalinar for having Navani's affection, since navani does think that he still cares for her. 7) Taravangian: This prediction is interesting to me. Taravangian has found out about the coming desolation from dova in kharbhranth. This is pre-diagram 'the maybe dull' taravangian. He is understandably scared and decides to try to form a coalition with Alethkar, the warlord Gavilar. But something snaps inside Gavilar and he goes full megalomaniac. He laughs at taravangian's face, calling him stupid, and attacking his low self esteem. He dresses down taravangian and would insinuate that Tara's purpose is to be Gav's humble follower because of his lack of capacity. He will talk about the visions( huge news to people who dont read the wobs) and how he was chosen by the almighty. Tara would be humiliated to tears. Later, after Gav's death, Tara will set out for the nightwatcher for capacity and create the diagram. I won't be surprised if we find out that Tara sees gav in Dalinar and doesn't want to lose because of that. 8) A big hint that gav found a way to live These are the reveals that I actually expect for the prologue. Most of these are charcter moments that just change the view of the other characters. And also we will see the birth of the diagram maybe So it will be satisfying
  7. ok so here is my very informal theory about the prolouge in stormlight 5 so i think that the prolouge might be from gavilars perspective or at least should be. If you think about it, this will probably be the last gavilar assassination prolouge and having it be his perspective would be a great way to introduce more about the heralds and gavilars intentions to the reader while technecally giving a big info dump but at the same time making it engaging for the audience.
  8. I've been thinking about this for a little while and decided to give my list of the worst Stormlight fathers in order from worst worst to least worst. Obviously Shallan's dad was a literal domestic abuser, but Dalinar, Gavilar, and Lirin have all been hot messes at various times too. My ranking: Gavilar Kholin: Emotionally manipulative, possibly sociopathic, appears to have been a power-mad religious zealot. Even Dalinar in the throes of uncontrolled PTSD and alcoholism was a better parent and leader. Gavilar left his son, a basically decent and intelligent human being who was willing to do unnecessary and socially controversial things for the sake of the lower caste as a group, broken into a thin-skinned paranoid wreck with a massive chip on his shoulder and the self-esteem of a bruised pear; and as for Jasnah, we don't know much but it seems pretty obvious that Gavilar tried to force her to tolerate Meridas Amaram (who I'm about 85% sure hurt Jasnah somehow) and was likely responsible for subjecting her to the locked-room method of "therapy" that seems prevalent in Alethkar. Left every single person in his immediate family with some degree of emotional issues or trauma. Helped precipitate the apocalypse. Lin Davar: Literal domestic abuser. Physically abusive and, with his wife, left his daughter with DID and enough trauma to rival even Kaladin. Dalinar Kholin: I keep having trouble deciding whether to put him or Lirin higher on this list, they're both crap fathers but at least Lirin recognized his mentally-ill son's accomplishments after some browbeating by his wife. Dalinar is an alternately distant and repressive father to Adolin, who he consistently treats in a patronizing and judgemental fashion, not recognizing that Adolin is an adult (who had to grow up too fast thanks to Dalinar's alcoholism and PTSD), making adult decisions, with a far better sense for other people than Dalinar can ever hope to have. Even when making an effort he is dismissive of Adolin's passions and refuses to understand Adolin's most deeply personal choices, as well as being a massive hypocrite about Adolin stabbing Sadeas in the eye when Sadeas clearly and openly stated his desire and intent to worsen the apocalypse just to storm over Dalinar for petty spite. While he is kind to Renarin, he is overprotective and stifling to him when he isn't distant, requiring Renarin to blurt out self-destructively depressed thoughts to realize that he's stifling his younger son. (and even then, he gets Renarin the Plate first, while Adolin is the one to give Renarin the Blade) Only reason Dalinar isn't higher is because he has buckets of trauma and didn't physically or intentionally emotionally abuse his kids. Lirin: A bullheaded, strict moral absolutist who contributed significantly to his son's mental health crisis and realized how badly he'd stormed up too late. It took Dalinar of all people to break Kaladin out of his depressed spiral before Kaladin could do something stupid like kill himself. Simultaneously bullheaded and weak, Lirin is not fully capable of addressing how his own trauma affects his attitudes and thoughts, and his hyper-rigid moral code leaves no room for "but these guys are literally spirits who have sworn allegiance to a god of hate who have murdered people to occupy their bodies". What do you think? How would you rank the Stormlight protagonists' dads?
  9. Each flashback POV from the previous books gave us tons of insight into the cause of the War with the Listeners . So I began wondering who will be the POV for the final book . So far we have had Szeth , Jasnah , Eshonai and Navani respectively . I think Brandon has given us enough foreshadowing to predict who it will be . Szeth gave us the act that caused the war . Jasnah gave us clues that clandestine forces were acting against the Kholin family . Eshonai gave us the Listners reasons for assasinating Gavilar . Navani shows us that Gavilar wasn’t so innocent , he was almost Herald level ruthless . I don’t think any of us saw that coming . So thier is only one person IMO that makes sense for book 5 . Gavilar himself ! We need to know where he got that light . We need to know what him a Kalek were planning to do with that Antivoidlight . I think Kalek , Nale , and Gavilar were all working together . And I think we will see that Gavilar really did deserve to die . For some reason I think what Teravangion did may be what Gavilar was arrogantly planning on doing . Which is why Nale had nightblood in the first place . Anyways I can’t think of anyone whose perspective matters anymore . Ehloksr was a immature teenager , Adolin was a kid . I suppose Nale could offer a good insight but being a zherald I feel like it’s kind of cheating . With all the knowledge they have . So I’m. Thinking it has to be Gavilar . What do you guys think ?
  10. Crazy Theory: Gavilar was trying to take up the pieces of Honor and become a shard. Here's my reasoning: 1) We know that Gavilar had been receiving the same visions Dalinar received from the StormFather, so he knew Honor was dead. 2) He was on a first name basis with the Heralds and they worked together, so he could possibly have had more knowledge of the cosmere and shards. 3) What he says to Navani: What has he discovered the entrance to? Maybe Braize, maybe Shadesmar, who knows? But he may believe Honor's power is kept there and he himself can take up the mantle. Or... he just was on firemoss and is now obsessed with a palace storage room.
  11. Preface, this is going to be long but it's important. I'm new to the forums and haven't had a chance to get to know people personally but I wanted to create this topic because I've seen some discussion surrounding Gavilar that I wasn't comfortable with. Rather than continuing in those threads I'm creating this to center the discussion of Gavilar and his treatment of those close to him here. If you feel like you are in an abusive relationship, Trust your gut, you can get support here: 1−800−799−7233 First I'm going to refer to some of the National Domestic Violence Hotline's criteria for abuse that I believe are relevant to the Prologue chapter: Just because someone does something that is on this list does not mean it is abuse. There can be a single instance of abuse or continued abuse. However, I think we can establish that the severity of a single action is what would make the action abusive, whereas continued actions from the list of criteria qualifies as abuse. Prologue: This is setting the reader up for what is coming. It's establishing that Navani isn't feeling like she belongs at Gavilar's side. BS notes that her anxieties/insecurities have gotten worse lately. In a healthy relationship she would be able to express this to her husband and he would be able to reassure her anxieties. This does not happen. This is number (2) from the segment above. He does not trust her. More evidence of lack of trust And more. Clearly this is a pattern, yeah? One time is circumstance, two times is coincidence, three times is a patter. Brandon is drilling this lack of trust from Gavilar into us. This is clearly (3) he has threatened her without resorting to physical abuse... yet. A glimpse into why she may deserve the abuse (spoiler, no one deserves the abuse, that's a sign of abuse). Number (7) he is accusing her of cheating, and is jealous of her relationship with Dalinar. No matter how founded it is. This is (4) he is humiliating her by twisting a once compassionate gesture into mockery. He is blaming her for the abuse (5) Wow, this is a lot all in one. He is calling her names, belittling her, and humiliating her for something she loves (1 and 4). Then he concludes with telling her that she isn't worthy of their relationship (8) This is the only quote I've pulled that I feel like is any stretch to call it abuse. But her internal monologue here "Don't let his lies become your truth. Fight it" Screams that he has been gaslighting her for an extended period of time. Here's what I find the most important part of the chapter, it's not evidence of actual abuse. It's showing how we normalize it. Our society and many of us normalize the behaviors I listed above. We say what Navani says that this was an "argument" and that they "bring out the worst in eachother". This is not the case, this is abuse, we need to recognize it for what it is, and not be afraid to call it that. We can have a whole long discussion about the justification or rationalization of what it is, but that just enables abusers. Allowing abusers to get away with these kinds of behaviors only protects them. We as a society need to do better by providing support for their victims and safe exits for them to leave their abuse. I'm not an professional in the field or anything close to an expert. Please, if you feel like there is abuse in your relationship, Trust your gut, reach out to someone -- You can reach out to me if you want. If you're looking for professional support you can contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline by calling 1−800−799−7233 If you are being abused or have been abused you need to know this. You do not deserve it, there is nothing that can make that true. No one deserves abuse.
  12. Here's why I think Gavilar isn't really dead. The Facts: 1 - The title of each part of every book forms an in-world Ketek that has significance to the plot of the book. 2 - Important information is hidden in chapter headings, the Herald in the arch often signifies the theme of the chapter or indicates that the Herald depicted makes and Appearance. 3 - Chapter titles have contained major spoiler that aren't clear until much later e.g. "Honor is Dead" 4 - From this WoB it can be inferred that Gavilar knew about Adonalsium. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/221/#e7682 5 - Gavillar wanted to start a Desolation to bring the Heralds back and was in the process of learning to Worldhop. 6 - So far every Prologue has been named for a Verb that summarizes the experience of the viewpoint character. We know that Gavillar will be the viewpoint character of book 5. Knowing this I think it is safe to assume the his chapter will be titled "To Die" Szeth - To Kill Jasnah - To Question Eshonai - To Weep Navani - To Pretend Gavillar - To Die If I am correct, the prologue titles will form the sentence: "To kill, to question, to weep, to pretend to die". This sentence is a summary of the life of Gavilar Kholin. To Kill: as a youth he fought a bloody campaign to conquer the Altheti Highprinces and unite the kingdom under a single king. To Question: As he got older he tired of war and sought meaning and purpose. He was lead to read The Way of Kings. To Weep: Gavilar began to have visions from the Stormfather and learns of the death of his God. This motivates him to try to start a Desolation in order to bring back and destroy the Listener gods. To Pretend to Die: The Listeners are horrified when they discover Gavilar's plans. They send Szeth to assassinate him and it appears that he is successful. In reality Gavilar survived as a Cognitive Shadow and will make an appearance in the Epilogue of Book 5.
  13. In the afternoon of the day he died, Gavilar offers the gem containing Ba-ado-Mishram to Eshonai with the intention to return the Listener gods and the cycle of desolations. In Szeth’s prologue in Way of Kings we see Gavilar give the gem to Szeth and tell him not to let the Parshendi have it. Did he change his mind in the meantime? It seems like he has had a change of heart about his plans in the six-eight hours between events. Did Nale and Kalak speak to him? One of the other Heralds? it’s my speculation the sphere contained Ba-ado-Mishram but there is no proof. I’m assuming the sphere Gavilar shows Eshonai is the same he gives to Szeth. is this the same gem both times? Does Gavilar get it back or does he have more than one? did he change his mind or does his plan just require the Parshendi don’t have that sphere?
  14. What was Gavilar doing with the Parshendi treaty? Why does he have at least two little black spheres filled with voidlight. Why does he give one to Eshonai and one to Szeth? Where are they now? There are lots of hints that the sphere contains Ba-ado-mishram, and I agree with this theory but how can one fused be trapped in two spheres? She was captured in one perfect gemstone and then split. Somebody tried to make a conjoined fabrial out of an unmade. Someone was trying to use Ba-ado-mishram's powers, to connect with the parsh, to grant forms of power, to grant voidlight, to lead them. Or to put it simply to create an army of loyal voidbringers. Gavilar's gift was a Trojan horse, his treaty and his words to Eshonai lies. Gavilar meant to seduce the listeners with power, transform them into an army and then enslave them to his will. Who on Roshar could oppose such a force? The radiants at his back, the stormfather on his shoulder, the voidbringer armies at his left hand and Dalinar at at his right. He could make the conquests of the Sunmaker, his idol, look like a footnote. He could bring Vorinism to every corner of the continent. He could unite Roshar. The sphere Gavilar kept on him has the power to connect to and enslave singers in regal form. Szeth drops it in Jah Keved. Lin davar finds it where it corrupts him, turning him power hungry and violent. He attempts to control its horrific influence by wrapping it in aluminum and protects it by hiding it on his 'precious' daughter. Then all the nosy treasure seekers come looking, ghost bloods, hoid, daybreakers, etc... The sphere Venli has can summon voidspren and grant voidlight. We see her scholars producing stormspren somehow on the shattered plains. Odium must know she has it though, perhaps it's been taken by the fused.
  15. Hello everyone! I have a very nit-picky observation/ question, so I thought about posting it on reddit, but at the same time, I thought maybe it's the right reason to sign up for this forum. Re-reading the Way of Kings I found something that bothered me even on my previous read, and that is the inconsistency surrounding Gavilar’s reputation as a swordsman and duelist, and his later loss of appetite for these activities. In the Way of Kings, but I’m reasonably sure that in the next two books as well, there are several mentions about Gavilar being a master swordsman, someone who like and engaged in dueling. On the other hand, we are told about 0 such duels, yet we are told on numerous occasions that Dalinar was the fighter and the duelist, while Gavilar was the leader. Presumably in their effort to conquer Kholinar and becoming Highprince, Gavilar did his fair share of fighting, we know almost nothing about these years, but we do see quite a few glimpses of the unification wars, yet at that point Gavilar is already transitioning more and more towards being only a political leader, and maybe a war-strategist, but certainly not a duelist. Few quotes: “It was said few men could rival Gavilar Kholin’s swordsmanship” – Szeth – Way of Kings- Prologue Not an exact quote “You didn’t duel a Highprince. It just wasn’t something that’s done” – Adolin – Way of Kings (There are also references in the series, that it wouldn’t be proper for a king or leader to duel someone below his station) Not an exact quote: “He started to refuse duels, you know… near the end” Elhokar to Dalinar – Way of Kings. (Sadeas has a similar comment also in Way of Kings. “Gavilar had been the leader, the momentum and the essence of their conquest, but Dalinar had been the warrior. Their opponents had surrendered to Gavilar’s rule, but the Blackthorn, he was the man who had scattered them, the one who had dueled their leaders and slain their best shardbearers” – Dalinar – Way of Kings” – Assault of the Tower plateau In the Dalinar flashbacks in Oathbringer, I clearly remember that when Tanalan (leader of the Rift) was challenged to a duel, it was obvious Dalinar would be the one taking him on, and then Tanalan asked what if he kills Dalinar? And the answer was “then Sadeas gets a crack at you”. So the option of Gavilar dueling an enemy leader, (Highprince and/or shardbearer) isn’t even entertained, and this was way back in the year 1141, towards the end of the unification wars, so towards the end of the period where we could reasonably expect Gavilar to engage in a duel. Elhokar wasn’t even born yet (only in 1147), not sure if Gavilar was already king, or just Hihgprince and the de facto leader of the Alethi, being the leader of the coalition poised to unite Alethkar. The second Rift uprising was in 1163, Gavilar stayed at home and sent Dalinar once again to deal with it. The timeline of the early wars is fuzzy, but we have at least the exact time for the Rift uprisings. Gavilar may have been a duelist in the early year, before Elhokar was born. But in the time Elhokar could remember, he was already king, and hasn’t been doing any in-person fighting on the battlefield in years. So, if he’s not challenging enemy shardbearers, who could he have dueled? It’s fairly clearly stated that challenging a Highprince was a very rare occurrence, challenging a King should be even more so by that logic. Maybe his closest allies could challenge him for friendly duels, but Dalinar and Sadeas certainly make no such remark; some of the other Highprinces maybe? Wouldn’t that be strange, a former enemy, whom he defeated in the unification wars, challenging him for a “friendly duel”. He could have dueled ardents for sport, I guess, but he would be the one challenging in those situations. All in all, I know this is a next level nitpick, but I think Gavilar couldn’t have possibly had many duels in the lifetime of his son, so it could be noticeable for Elhokar that his father lost his appetite for sword-fighting "near the end". What do you think? Am I missing something?
  16. We know Gavilar was receiving the visions from the Stormfather because they were beginning to bond, but I am starting to think the Stormfather talked to Gavilar directly. Gavilar founded the organization known as Sons of Honor and I am now noticing just how often Stormfather calls people "Son of Honor". Mostly to Dalinar in Oathbringer, but in WoK, WoR & OB he calls Kaladin Child / Son of Honor. I had always thought that Gavilar, like Dalinar, got the Visions without figuring out that the Stormfather was giving them to him and without any additional guidance from the Stormfather. Which is why both of their interpretations of what the visions were asking them to do were off. It seems like the Stormfather talked to Gavilar at least once and Gavilar may have understood that the Visions came from the Stormfather because he named his secret club that was acting on the visions "Sons of Honor". It's not an issue of consistency or anything, we know the Stormfather withholds useful information from Dalinar He drags his feet and does the bare minimum. He seems very pouty about Tanavast tasking him with delivering the visions and has a real negative attitude in general WoR Ch. 89: "I WAS REQUIRED TO SEND THOSE VISIONS ... THE ALMIGHTY DEMANDED IT OF ME. I COULD NO MORE DISOBEY THAN I COULD REFUSE TO BLOW THE WINDS ... IT DOES NOT MATTER. YOU WERE TOO SLOW. YOU FAILED ... IT IS OVER. YOU HAVE LOST" Even the Stormfather's efforts to "help" leave a lot to be desired WoR ch. 83: "I BRING YOU A STORM OF CLEANSING. IT WILL CARRY AWAY YOUR CORPSES." I'm just surprised that Gavilar might have talked to the Stormfather and understood more about what was happening to him than Dalinar did before the end of WoR. Additional References:
  17. From Mraize's letter, we know: And then back in the prologue of Oathbringer, we have: So, the prologue meeting that Eshonai stumbles into appears to be a Sons of Honor meeting between Gavilar and Amaram and four others (one soldier, two fine ladies, and one old man in robes), where no guards were even at the door, presumably because they wanted a very secretive meeting where even guards were not allowed to listen in. My question is, who are the four others? Restares, perhaps Taravangian The old man in robes appears to be Restares. Amaram writes in a spanreed to Restares (WoR Page 1059), saying, "It has ever been our burden as the Sons of Honor." Amaram had also presumably consulted with Restares via spanreed when deciding slaughter his own men so that he could steal Kal's Shardblade: "Restares is right— this is what must be done. For the good of Alethkar.” (WoK, Page 703) Restares is only mentioned in three places over all three books: as one of three of Gavilar's suspects during his assassination (WoK prologue), when Amaram slaughters Kal's men (WoK), and when Amaram writes to Restares via spanreed (WoR). The Stormlight Archive Wiki states that Restares is an Alethi brightlord, but I'm not sure that we know this even though Amaram implies that Restares said the theft of the Shardblade was for the good of Alethkar. We never hear anything of Restares at all, which knowing Sanderson makes me suspect that Restares is a fake name given how often he gives other names to characters - Heralds like Darkness, Ash, Ahu, and Tezim or the five Scholars - to obfuscate their true identities. I wonder if Restares is not in fact Taravangian or some other old dude we know well. In Oathbringer (Page 242), Dalinar tells us that he had met Mr. T before "his strange illness five years ago." And then the strongest evidence that Taravangian is Restares and a Son of Honor is this quote from WoR: After Gavilar's death and access to the visions ended, Mr. T seeks the Nightwatcher, asking that he be the one to unite them, which led to the Diagram. I will leave all discussion of the Diagram to other wonderful threads, though it does seem that followers of the Diagram and Sons of Honor diverge a bit. However, keeping his position in the Sons of Honor (if he is Restares) would be a brilliant way to keep the information flowing from surviving allies there. Torol and Ialai Sadeas Torol Sadeas is undeniably close to Gavilar, willing to sacrifice his life for Gavilar's own during the assassination attempt and always 100% loyal to Gavilar despite the fact that, following Gavilar's death, he's tried his best to undermine and even kill Dalinar at every possible step. Why the difference? Apparently, Torol was privy to secrets about Gavilar's true, ruthless and Machiavellian nature - secrets of which Dalinar and Elohkar and even Jasnah apparently had no inkling. How is that possible? What secrets did he know? And wouldn't we peg Torol as Gavilar's closest and most trusted companion outside of family? Didn't Torol do all of the politicking with Gavilar when Dalinar refused? So to me, it makes enormous sense that Torol was a Son of Honor, sharing the same ruthlessness and Machiavellian approaches as Gavilar and Taravangian and Amaram. In fact, Meridas was likely recruited by Torol, as was Ialai. Just like House of Cards, Torol and Ialai are playing this game together, 100%. So my thoughts are that Torol actually dressed in his soldier attire for the signing of the treaty with the Parshendi (hence he and Amaram make the two soldiers), and Ialai is one of the two women in long dresses. So the other woman could be... Aesudan We see Gavilar pushing Jasnah into Amaram's arms. Obviously, Gavilar wants to keep the Sons in the family. And Aesudan tells El in OB that his father was ever so much better than he was: Aesudan knows of one (but perhaps not the other) of Gavilar's spheres, and she seems to have continued trapping more bad spren, going even a step further by bonding. But how was she privy to Gavilar's grand plans? How did she know of his father's work and his ancient (evil) spren? I'm thinking that was because she was one of the lady Sons. Yet again, we see the same ruthless, Machiavellian nature in Aesudan as we do in Gavilar, Amaram, Torol, Ialai, and Taravangian. They all fit beautifully together.
  18. We know that before he died, Gavilar went “mad,” and started having visions. Sound familiar? I think that Gavilar could have potentially been the Bondsmith, bonded to the Stormfather, instead of Dalinar, had he not died. So, if Gavilar was still alive, where would Dalinar fit into the entire operation? We know that there are three Bondsmiths, who bond with the Stormfather (Honor), Nightwatcher (Cultivation), and Sibling (Odium, most likely). I think that Dalinar might have been the Bondsmith for Odium, bonded to the Sibling. That would explain why he felt the Thrill so strongly. At some point, maybe after Gavilar’s death, the Stormfather started to focus his attentions on Dalinar, and overpowered the Sibling, causing the Sibling’s “slumber.” Thoughts?
  19. From the prologue where Gavilar tells Eshonai of their secret ways of trapping spren and how he wants to help her bring back her gods, giving her a sphere of unusually dark light: So what happened to this sphere Gavilar gave Eshonai? That's the million-dollar question, right? Along with the sphere Gavilar gave to Szeth. I'm wondering if Ulim could be the spren trapped in the sphere. Eshonai does take the sphere. Perhaps she hides it or throws it away (or gives it to the Five), but these paths might eventually lead to Venli. Ulim, a spren the Fuzed (Ancient Ones) call the Envoy, did succeed in convincing and helping Venli to bring back stormform and eventually the Everstorm and the Fuzed.
  20. Just joined the forum! I wrote this kidfic last year, but it seems pretty relevant with the release of Oathbringer! It doesn't seem overtly jossed, whew. Title: Brothers in Arms Summary: Years before they reunite a kingdom, Gavilar and Dalinar discover they have the makings of an invincible team.
  21. I was recently thinking, do we know anything about the beginings of Sons of Honor? Or how Gavilar joined them, if he did? I’ve read somewhere that Restares is the leader of Sons of Honor, but is it based on anything?
  22. So, from the Oathbringer prologue, we have some new information. Specifically, we now know what the motivations of each of the three men trying to "unite them" might be (based on the instructions obtained from the Almighty's vision-diary). Gavilar & Dalinar each received the visions from the Stormfather, and Taravangian heard about the visions from Gavilar. We are directly told that Gavilar intended to "unite them" with a threat of danger. We can infer that Dalinar is determined to "unite them" through common purpose & a sense of honor/duty. We can also infer that Taravangian is attempting to "unite them" with deception, political conquest, and esoteric methods (e.g. death rattles, Nightwatcher-granted super intellect, manipulating a truthless) Obviously, Dalinar is the only one of the three who is going about his efforts at unification in a manner consistent with the first oath of the Knights Radiant. However, my thoughts go from this observation to the secret societies. We have the Diagram society, the Sons of Honor, and the Ghostbloods. Of those three groups, two are represented in this group of men (Gavilar → Sons of Honor & Taravangian → the Diagram society). We also have two of the three shards whose power influenced the formation of two of the societies (Honor → Sons of Honor & Cultivation → the Diagram society). So, where do you all think the Ghostbloods fit into all of this? Acknowledging that it's pure conjecture, likely coincidental, and that correlation does not equal causation; is there any chance the Ghostbloods have a connection to Odium? Wild Cosmere theory: The Ghostbloods do a lot of world-hopping. If the Ghostbloods are connected to Odium, do you think there is a chance that Kelsier might have created a link between Roshar and the Southern Scadrians via Iyatil? What about the possibility that a chance encounter between Kelsier & Odium (or a more mundane connection via the Ghostbloods) is influencing the "other god" goings-on on Scadrial in the Wax & Wayne era?
  23. As we get closer to oathbringer I am getting more worried about many details in the books I missed details that others here have long since 'canonized' and deemed obvious and so I send out this plea for help to collect info on: 1) why does everyone know the herelds are crazy was that stated indisputedly in the books or from wob? Also what else do we know about their madness? 2)what do we know about Gavilar... have we been told exactly what he was trying to do with the pars he si before his assasination? What ever info gavilar had about oarshendi do we know how he got it? And what exactly was his telationship with amaram? 3) last but not least what do we know about seethe. Everyone seems to know more about him than me/understand him better. I feel like I failed a reading comprehension class(or maybe just read to darned fast) because I found his character confusing incoherent which made reading his chapters meaningless to me.... so ya'al gotta humor me and do some explaining; do we know what it even means to be truth less? Was he actually bound to that rock thing to kill or just plain psycho? Wait if he's psycho was that something he became while truthless or was he psycho from the beginning even b4 he did the stuff which made him truthless? Come to think of it what did he do? Did anyone actually follow all the chapters to trace his full sequence of owners(I read too fast and lazy)? What he szeths situation at end of wor ? Oh and last but not least... what the heck do we know about the shin people anyways? p.s. I know ranting about Seth who seems to be a popular character will not really be too popular but can please show me a little ❤️❤️ Cuz I'm just a poor fan overwhelmed by Brandon's emense work and happen to be stuck currently as a lowly spearman!
  24. From the album Rosharan High Fashion

    Here we got the skirtlike takama, a kind of Alethi traditional warrior’s garb =)