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Found 35 results

  1. Preface, this is going to be long but it's important. I'm new to the forums and haven't had a chance to get to know people personally but I wanted to create this topic because I've seen some discussion surrounding Gavilar that I wasn't comfortable with. Rather than continuing in those threads I'm creating this to center the discussion of Gavilar and his treatment of those close to him here. If you feel like you are in an abusive relationship, Trust your gut, you can get support here: 1−800−799−7233 First I'm going to refer to some of the National Domestic Violence Hotline's criteria for abuse that I believe are relevant to the Prologue chapter: Just because someone does something that is on this list does not mean it is abuse. There can be a single instance of abuse or continued abuse. However, I think we can establish that the severity of a single action is what would make the action abusive, whereas continued actions from the list of criteria qualifies as abuse. Prologue: This is setting the reader up for what is coming. It's establishing that Navani isn't feeling like she belongs at Gavilar's side. BS notes that her anxieties/insecurities have gotten worse lately. In a healthy relationship she would be able to express this to her husband and he would be able to reassure her anxieties. This does not happen. This is number (2) from the segment above. He does not trust her. More evidence of lack of trust And more. Clearly this is a pattern, yeah? One time is circumstance, two times is coincidence, three times is a patter. Brandon is drilling this lack of trust from Gavilar into us. This is clearly (3) he has threatened her without resorting to physical abuse... yet. A glimpse into why she may deserve the abuse (spoiler, no one deserves the abuse, that's a sign of abuse). Number (7) he is accusing her of cheating, and is jealous of her relationship with Dalinar. No matter how founded it is. This is (4) he is humiliating her by twisting a once compassionate gesture into mockery. He is blaming her for the abuse (5) Wow, this is a lot all in one. He is calling her names, belittling her, and humiliating her for something she loves (1 and 4). Then he concludes with telling her that she isn't worthy of their relationship (8) This is the only quote I've pulled that I feel like is any stretch to call it abuse. But her internal monologue here "Don't let his lies become your truth. Fight it" Screams that he has been gaslighting her for an extended period of time. Here's what I find the most important part of the chapter, it's not evidence of actual abuse. It's showing how we normalize it. Our society and many of us normalize the behaviors I listed above. We say what Navani says that this was an "argument" and that they "bring out the worst in eachother". This is not the case, this is abuse, we need to recognize it for what it is, and not be afraid to call it that. We can have a whole long discussion about the justification or rationalization of what it is, but that just enables abusers. Allowing abusers to get away with these kinds of behaviors only protects them. We as a society need to do better by providing support for their victims and safe exits for them to leave their abuse. I'm not an professional in the field or anything close to an expert. Please, if you feel like there is abuse in your relationship, Trust your gut, reach out to someone -- You can reach out to me if you want. If you're looking for professional support you can contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline by calling 1−800−799−7233 If you are being abused or have been abused you need to know this. You do not deserve it, there is nothing that can make that true. No one deserves abuse.
  2. Crazy Theory: Gavilar was trying to take up the pieces of Honor and become a shard. Here's my reasoning: 1) We know that Gavilar had been receiving the same visions Dalinar received from the StormFather, so he knew Honor was dead. 2) He was on a first name basis with the Heralds and they worked together, so he could possibly have had more knowledge of the cosmere and shards. 3) What he says to Navani: What has he discovered the entrance to? Maybe Braize, maybe Shadesmar, who knows? But he may believe Honor's power is kept there and he himself can take up the mantle. Or... he just was on firemoss and is now obsessed with a palace storage room.
  3. So I read a part if the Rythm of War Prologue and a paragraph caught my attention. Its Navani's PoV and shes looking for Gavilar on the night of his murder and finds him whispering with 2 other people. I think one might've been Nale. From my understanding, they have discovered a way to send,probably voidspren(although it could be regular spren), back and forth from Braize. But one of the "Heralds" says that going back and forth from Braize is "too close to be relevant" Gavilar says that it was impossible just a few years back and mentions that the Oathpact isn't gone and that it can be "warped" to allow for travel and mentions that it isnt as far as theyd like to go but they're still in the beginning stages. So the big question is.... where the hell do the Sons of Honor want to send these Spren. Spren are bound to their system, but if Roshar to Braize isn't far enough, where do they want to send them? One of the 10 gas giants? Or maybe theyd find a way around the Location problem and wanted to send spren all over the cosmere XD
  4. In the afternoon of the day he died, Gavilar offers the gem containing Ba-ado-Mishram to Eshonai with the intention to return the Listener gods and the cycle of desolations. In Szeth’s prologue in Way of Kings we see Gavilar give the gem to Szeth and tell him not to let the Parshendi have it. Did he change his mind in the meantime? It seems like he has had a change of heart about his plans in the six-eight hours between events. Did Nale and Kalak speak to him? One of the other Heralds? it’s my speculation the sphere contained Ba-ado-Mishram but there is no proof. I’m assuming the sphere Gavilar shows Eshonai is the same he gives to Szeth. is this the same gem both times? Does Gavilar get it back or does he have more than one? did he change his mind or does his plan just require the Parshendi don’t have that sphere?
  5. What was Gavilar doing with the Parshendi treaty? Why does he have at least two little black spheres filled with voidlight. Why does he give one to Eshonai and one to Szeth? Where are they now? There are lots of hints that the sphere contains Ba-ado-mishram, and I agree with this theory but how can one fused be trapped in two spheres? She was captured in one perfect gemstone and then split. Somebody tried to make a conjoined fabrial out of an unmade. Someone was trying to use Ba-ado-mishram's powers, to connect with the parsh, to grant forms of power, to grant voidlight, to lead them. Or to put it simply to create an army of loyal voidbringers. Gavilar's gift was a Trojan horse, his treaty and his words to Eshonai lies. Gavilar meant to seduce the listeners with power, transform them into an army and then enslave them to his will. Who on Roshar could oppose such a force? The radiants at his back, the stormfather on his shoulder, the voidbringer armies at his left hand and Dalinar at at his right. He could make the conquests of the Sunmaker, his idol, look like a footnote. He could bring Vorinism to every corner of the continent. He could unite Roshar. The sphere Gavilar kept on him has the power to connect to and enslave singers in regal form. Szeth drops it in Jah Keved. Lin davar finds it where it corrupts him, turning him power hungry and violent. He attempts to control its horrific influence by wrapping it in aluminum and protects it by hiding it on his 'precious' daughter. Then all the nosy treasure seekers come looking, ghost bloods, hoid, daybreakers, etc... The sphere Venli has can summon voidspren and grant voidlight. We see her scholars producing stormspren somehow on the shattered plains. Odium must know she has it though, perhaps it's been taken by the fused.
  6. Hello everyone! I have a very nit-picky observation/ question, so I thought about posting it on reddit, but at the same time, I thought maybe it's the right reason to sign up for this forum. Re-reading the Way of Kings I found something that bothered me even on my previous read, and that is the inconsistency surrounding Gavilar’s reputation as a swordsman and duelist, and his later loss of appetite for these activities. In the Way of Kings, but I’m reasonably sure that in the next two books as well, there are several mentions about Gavilar being a master swordsman, someone who like and engaged in dueling. On the other hand, we are told about 0 such duels, yet we are told on numerous occasions that Dalinar was the fighter and the duelist, while Gavilar was the leader. Presumably in their effort to conquer Kholinar and becoming Highprince, Gavilar did his fair share of fighting, we know almost nothing about these years, but we do see quite a few glimpses of the unification wars, yet at that point Gavilar is already transitioning more and more towards being only a political leader, and maybe a war-strategist, but certainly not a duelist. Few quotes: “It was said few men could rival Gavilar Kholin’s swordsmanship” – Szeth – Way of Kings- Prologue Not an exact quote “You didn’t duel a Highprince. It just wasn’t something that’s done” – Adolin – Way of Kings (There are also references in the series, that it wouldn’t be proper for a king or leader to duel someone below his station) Not an exact quote: “He started to refuse duels, you know… near the end” Elhokar to Dalinar – Way of Kings. (Sadeas has a similar comment also in Way of Kings. “Gavilar had been the leader, the momentum and the essence of their conquest, but Dalinar had been the warrior. Their opponents had surrendered to Gavilar’s rule, but the Blackthorn, he was the man who had scattered them, the one who had dueled their leaders and slain their best shardbearers” – Dalinar – Way of Kings” – Assault of the Tower plateau In the Dalinar flashbacks in Oathbringer, I clearly remember that when Tanalan (leader of the Rift) was challenged to a duel, it was obvious Dalinar would be the one taking him on, and then Tanalan asked what if he kills Dalinar? And the answer was “then Sadeas gets a crack at you”. So the option of Gavilar dueling an enemy leader, (Highprince and/or shardbearer) isn’t even entertained, and this was way back in the year 1141, towards the end of the unification wars, so towards the end of the period where we could reasonably expect Gavilar to engage in a duel. Elhokar wasn’t even born yet (only in 1147), not sure if Gavilar was already king, or just Hihgprince and the de facto leader of the Alethi, being the leader of the coalition poised to unite Alethkar. The second Rift uprising was in 1163, Gavilar stayed at home and sent Dalinar once again to deal with it. The timeline of the early wars is fuzzy, but we have at least the exact time for the Rift uprisings. Gavilar may have been a duelist in the early year, before Elhokar was born. But in the time Elhokar could remember, he was already king, and hasn’t been doing any in-person fighting on the battlefield in years. So, if he’s not challenging enemy shardbearers, who could he have dueled? It’s fairly clearly stated that challenging a Highprince was a very rare occurrence, challenging a King should be even more so by that logic. Maybe his closest allies could challenge him for friendly duels, but Dalinar and Sadeas certainly make no such remark; some of the other Highprinces maybe? Wouldn’t that be strange, a former enemy, whom he defeated in the unification wars, challenging him for a “friendly duel”. He could have dueled ardents for sport, I guess, but he would be the one challenging in those situations. All in all, I know this is a next level nitpick, but I think Gavilar couldn’t have possibly had many duels in the lifetime of his son, so it could be noticeable for Elhokar that his father lost his appetite for sword-fighting "near the end". What do you think? Am I missing something?
  7. We know Gavilar was receiving the visions from the Stormfather because they were beginning to bond, but I am starting to think the Stormfather talked to Gavilar directly. Gavilar founded the organization known as Sons of Honor and I am now noticing just how often Stormfather calls people "Son of Honor". Mostly to Dalinar in Oathbringer, but in WoK, WoR & OB he calls Kaladin Child / Son of Honor. I had always thought that Gavilar, like Dalinar, got the Visions without figuring out that the Stormfather was giving them to him and without any additional guidance from the Stormfather. Which is why both of their interpretations of what the visions were asking them to do were off. It seems like the Stormfather talked to Gavilar at least once and Gavilar may have understood that the Visions came from the Stormfather because he named his secret club that was acting on the visions "Sons of Honor". It's not an issue of consistency or anything, we know the Stormfather withholds useful information from Dalinar He drags his feet and does the bare minimum. He seems very pouty about Tanavast tasking him with delivering the visions and has a real negative attitude in general WoR Ch. 89: "I WAS REQUIRED TO SEND THOSE VISIONS ... THE ALMIGHTY DEMANDED IT OF ME. I COULD NO MORE DISOBEY THAN I COULD REFUSE TO BLOW THE WINDS ... IT DOES NOT MATTER. YOU WERE TOO SLOW. YOU FAILED ... IT IS OVER. YOU HAVE LOST" Even the Stormfather's efforts to "help" leave a lot to be desired WoR ch. 83: "I BRING YOU A STORM OF CLEANSING. IT WILL CARRY AWAY YOUR CORPSES." I'm just surprised that Gavilar might have talked to the Stormfather and understood more about what was happening to him than Dalinar did before the end of WoR. Additional References:
  8. From Mraize's letter, we know: And then back in the prologue of Oathbringer, we have: So, the prologue meeting that Eshonai stumbles into appears to be a Sons of Honor meeting between Gavilar and Amaram and four others (one soldier, two fine ladies, and one old man in robes), where no guards were even at the door, presumably because they wanted a very secretive meeting where even guards were not allowed to listen in. My question is, who are the four others? Restares, perhaps Taravangian The old man in robes appears to be Restares. Amaram writes in a spanreed to Restares (WoR Page 1059), saying, "It has ever been our burden as the Sons of Honor." Amaram had also presumably consulted with Restares via spanreed when deciding slaughter his own men so that he could steal Kal's Shardblade: "Restares is right— this is what must be done. For the good of Alethkar.” (WoK, Page 703) Restares is only mentioned in three places over all three books: as one of three of Gavilar's suspects during his assassination (WoK prologue), when Amaram slaughters Kal's men (WoK), and when Amaram writes to Restares via spanreed (WoR). The Stormlight Archive Wiki states that Restares is an Alethi brightlord, but I'm not sure that we know this even though Amaram implies that Restares said the theft of the Shardblade was for the good of Alethkar. We never hear anything of Restares at all, which knowing Sanderson makes me suspect that Restares is a fake name given how often he gives other names to characters - Heralds like Darkness, Ash, Ahu, and Tezim or the five Scholars - to obfuscate their true identities. I wonder if Restares is not in fact Taravangian or some other old dude we know well. In Oathbringer (Page 242), Dalinar tells us that he had met Mr. T before "his strange illness five years ago." And then the strongest evidence that Taravangian is Restares and a Son of Honor is this quote from WoR: After Gavilar's death and access to the visions ended, Mr. T seeks the Nightwatcher, asking that he be the one to unite them, which led to the Diagram. I will leave all discussion of the Diagram to other wonderful threads, though it does seem that followers of the Diagram and Sons of Honor diverge a bit. However, keeping his position in the Sons of Honor (if he is Restares) would be a brilliant way to keep the information flowing from surviving allies there. Torol and Ialai Sadeas Torol Sadeas is undeniably close to Gavilar, willing to sacrifice his life for Gavilar's own during the assassination attempt and always 100% loyal to Gavilar despite the fact that, following Gavilar's death, he's tried his best to undermine and even kill Dalinar at every possible step. Why the difference? Apparently, Torol was privy to secrets about Gavilar's true, ruthless and Machiavellian nature - secrets of which Dalinar and Elohkar and even Jasnah apparently had no inkling. How is that possible? What secrets did he know? And wouldn't we peg Torol as Gavilar's closest and most trusted companion outside of family? Didn't Torol do all of the politicking with Gavilar when Dalinar refused? So to me, it makes enormous sense that Torol was a Son of Honor, sharing the same ruthlessness and Machiavellian approaches as Gavilar and Taravangian and Amaram. In fact, Meridas was likely recruited by Torol, as was Ialai. Just like House of Cards, Torol and Ialai are playing this game together, 100%. So my thoughts are that Torol actually dressed in his soldier attire for the signing of the treaty with the Parshendi (hence he and Amaram make the two soldiers), and Ialai is one of the two women in long dresses. So the other woman could be... Aesudan We see Gavilar pushing Jasnah into Amaram's arms. Obviously, Gavilar wants to keep the Sons in the family. And Aesudan tells El in OB that his father was ever so much better than he was: Aesudan knows of one (but perhaps not the other) of Gavilar's spheres, and she seems to have continued trapping more bad spren, going even a step further by bonding. But how was she privy to Gavilar's grand plans? How did she know of his father's work and his ancient (evil) spren? I'm thinking that was because she was one of the lady Sons. Yet again, we see the same ruthless, Machiavellian nature in Aesudan as we do in Gavilar, Amaram, Torol, Ialai, and Taravangian. They all fit beautifully together.
  9. We know that before he died, Gavilar went “mad,” and started having visions. Sound familiar? I think that Gavilar could have potentially been the Bondsmith, bonded to the Stormfather, instead of Dalinar, had he not died. So, if Gavilar was still alive, where would Dalinar fit into the entire operation? We know that there are three Bondsmiths, who bond with the Stormfather (Honor), Nightwatcher (Cultivation), and Sibling (Odium, most likely). I think that Dalinar might have been the Bondsmith for Odium, bonded to the Sibling. That would explain why he felt the Thrill so strongly. At some point, maybe after Gavilar’s death, the Stormfather started to focus his attentions on Dalinar, and overpowered the Sibling, causing the Sibling’s “slumber.” Thoughts?
  10. From the prologue where Gavilar tells Eshonai of their secret ways of trapping spren and how he wants to help her bring back her gods, giving her a sphere of unusually dark light: So what happened to this sphere Gavilar gave Eshonai? That's the million-dollar question, right? Along with the sphere Gavilar gave to Szeth. I'm wondering if Ulim could be the spren trapped in the sphere. Eshonai does take the sphere. Perhaps she hides it or throws it away (or gives it to the Five), but these paths might eventually lead to Venli. Ulim, a spren the Fuzed (Ancient Ones) call the Envoy, did succeed in convincing and helping Venli to bring back stormform and eventually the Everstorm and the Fuzed.
  11. Just joined the forum! I wrote this kidfic last year, but it seems pretty relevant with the release of Oathbringer! It doesn't seem overtly jossed, whew. Title: Brothers in Arms Summary: Years before they reunite a kingdom, Gavilar and Dalinar discover they have the makings of an invincible team.
  12. I was recently thinking, do we know anything about the beginings of Sons of Honor? Or how Gavilar joined them, if he did? I’ve read somewhere that Restares is the leader of Sons of Honor, but is it based on anything?
  13. So, from the Oathbringer prologue, we have some new information. Specifically, we now know what the motivations of each of the three men trying to "unite them" might be (based on the instructions obtained from the Almighty's vision-diary). Gavilar & Dalinar each received the visions from the Stormfather, and Taravangian heard about the visions from Gavilar. We are directly told that Gavilar intended to "unite them" with a threat of danger. We can infer that Dalinar is determined to "unite them" through common purpose & a sense of honor/duty. We can also infer that Taravangian is attempting to "unite them" with deception, political conquest, and esoteric methods (e.g. death rattles, Nightwatcher-granted super intellect, manipulating a truthless) Obviously, Dalinar is the only one of the three who is going about his efforts at unification in a manner consistent with the first oath of the Knights Radiant. However, my thoughts go from this observation to the secret societies. We have the Diagram society, the Sons of Honor, and the Ghostbloods. Of those three groups, two are represented in this group of men (Gavilar → Sons of Honor & Taravangian → the Diagram society). We also have two of the three shards whose power influenced the formation of two of the societies (Honor → Sons of Honor & Cultivation → the Diagram society). So, where do you all think the Ghostbloods fit into all of this? Acknowledging that it's pure conjecture, likely coincidental, and that correlation does not equal causation; is there any chance the Ghostbloods have a connection to Odium? Wild Cosmere theory: The Ghostbloods do a lot of world-hopping. If the Ghostbloods are connected to Odium, do you think there is a chance that Kelsier might have created a link between Roshar and the Southern Scadrians via Iyatil? What about the possibility that a chance encounter between Kelsier & Odium (or a more mundane connection via the Ghostbloods) is influencing the "other god" goings-on on Scadrial in the Wax & Wayne era?
  14. As we get closer to oathbringer I am getting more worried about many details in the books I missed details that others here have long since 'canonized' and deemed obvious and so I send out this plea for help to collect info on: 1) why does everyone know the herelds are crazy was that stated indisputedly in the books or from wob? Also what else do we know about their madness? 2)what do we know about Gavilar... have we been told exactly what he was trying to do with the pars he si before his assasination? What ever info gavilar had about oarshendi do we know how he got it? And what exactly was his telationship with amaram? 3) last but not least what do we know about seethe. Everyone seems to know more about him than me/understand him better. I feel like I failed a reading comprehension class(or maybe just read to darned fast) because I found his character confusing incoherent which made reading his chapters meaningless to me.... so ya'al gotta humor me and do some explaining; do we know what it even means to be truth less? Was he actually bound to that rock thing to kill or just plain psycho? Wait if he's psycho was that something he became while truthless or was he psycho from the beginning even b4 he did the stuff which made him truthless? Come to think of it what did he do? Did anyone actually follow all the chapters to trace his full sequence of owners(I read too fast and lazy)? What he szeths situation at end of wor ? Oh and last but not least... what the heck do we know about the shin people anyways? p.s. I know ranting about Seth who seems to be a popular character will not really be too popular but can please show me a little ❤️❤️ Cuz I'm just a poor fan overwhelmed by Brandon's emense work and happen to be stuck currently as a lowly spearman!
  15. i am not sure if there is an other post on the subject (propably is)but after a quick search my efforts where fruitless so ... here goes so i was re-re-reading WoK and smt struck me as weird mostly because i never noticed it before (or maybe i did but i was so overwhelmed by the awesomeness that i forgot) after Szeth assasinates the old king he grants him his final wish to leave a message for his brother to find the most important words a man can say everyone remembers it and the reason is preaty obvius , he wants Dalinar to follow the codes and find what it was he discovered But there was smt else , Gavilar asks szeth to " not let them take it" refering to a dark sphere that he had with him Szeth obeyes and hides it somewhere in Jah Keved also an interesting fact that i discovered though it could be a coinsidence , Szeth's initial master who we meet in the third interlude uses him as a way to make "new friends" and as a witness to verify some of his crazy and far fetched stories well one of his stories is about a spere that glows dark instead of light now we are certain that he hasnt seen the rock but could he had heard about it from Szeth? one more note whatever it is it's existance is propably not known to the diagram since they surly dont have it and taravangian hasn't questioned Szeth about it . any way i am getting sidetracked any ideas on what the sphere actualy is ?
  16. So there has been a lot of discussion about future Stormlight books, and the possibility that characters will die before we get their flashback story. I think this might have been the case for Dalinar, before his flashbacks were moved to book 3. This idea also prompted thoughts about how even if a character dies, they might still have a story, fighting with the Heralds to get back the Tranquiline Halls, aka fixing the Rosharian afterlife (this is only speculation and theories). I just came to the interesting conclusions: Gavilar is dead, thus in this <broken> afterlife We could get a flashback story for him, probably in the latter half of the series Also in the latter half, he could be the viewpoint character for the afterlife If Dalinar dies, there could be a very sweet reunion scene (whether canon or fanfiction)
  17. We know that before Dalinar, the visions were sent to Gavilar (as Taravangian knows some of its contents since Gavilar confined in him). Why? I suspect it has to do with the Way Of Kings and Alethi War Codes. Way of Kings probably is like a Bible to Radiants and if somebody follows its teachings, he or she becomes Radiant material as he or she exhibits behaviour and attitude which attracts spren. I suspect that combined with the Alethi Codes of War which, among others, contain teaching for what a leader should be, they make a Bondsmith material (as Bondsmiths seem to be about leading/uniting people: "I will unite instead of divide. I will bring men together" and the Divine Attribute of Guiding). That would explain why the next recipient after Gavilar is his own brother. Because Dalinar did what Gavilar did. Followed the same teachings. Now, I'm not sure whether Gavilar was chosen because of his actions to unite Alethkar or perhaps he united Alethkar because of the visions. I suspect it was the former, as he started behaving differently only recently. Dalinar continues his work, becoming obsessed with keeping Alethkar whole. But no, this is a distraction. Deviation. We must discuss the nature of my theory. I say that the visions are sent to those who are proto-Bondsmiths. This makes sense, as Stormfather can sense those individuals (much like Shallan's lies attracted a Cryptic, Kaladin's behaviour attracted honorspren and so on). Perhaps he doesn't want to bond them, and who says he did? Maybe Dalinar was the first to actually progress to the point of bonding the Stormfather? But I digress again. Who said Dalinar was the second one to receive the visions? Who said Gavilar was the first to receive the visions? Maybe the visions were sent to him only after the previous candidate failed/died? Let's go further with that. How many times were the visions sent throughout the history? Did Sunmaker receive them? Maybe Talenel had a hard time back then and it made Stormfather react with selecting an individual. Then Talenel pulled himself together. Then he started breaking again in the modern times and visions were sent once again.
  18. At Gavilars party, we think we see several Heralds. Darkness/Nalan seems to be there, and it is theorized that he is joined by Kalak. Baxils mistress, who is believed to be Shalash, is confirmed to have been at the palace, and is mentioned by Nalan during the party. Some believe that Jezrien is the drunk man who speaks to Szeth. So, why are all these guys there? Did they know that Gavilar would die? Did they just want to befriend powerful people (Nalan and Kalak speaks to Elhokar)? How come they all gathered there?
  19. So, we know that we will have at least five accounts of that fateful night. I can't help but notice a pattern: WoK - Kaladin's book - Szeth Prologue WoR - Shallan's book - Jasnah Prologue Othbrngr - Dalinar's book - Eshonai Prologue Eshonai/Szeth book - ??? Prologue Szeth/Eshonai book - ??? Prologue So, there is a connection between Kaladin and Szeth - both were WIndrunners and designated enemies which culminated in Kaladin killing Szeth at the end of WoR. Shallan is apprentice of Jasnah, there is a connection. Both Eshonai and Dalinar are generals in their respective armies and Eshonai tried to seek out Dalinar to make peace while Dalinar was the only highprince who thought of trying to understand why Parshendi killed Gavilar. There are various characters who were present that night. BTW, I wonder whether we will get Gavilar's perspective on that night; it would be certainly carrying a lot of knowledge. Anyway, it's possible that in Eshonai's book we would get Dalinar's PoV - but he didn't do much and all three characters (Szeth, Jasnah, Eshonai) were doing something very unusual as for the feast night (Szeth - assasinating, Eshonai - orchestrating assasination, Jasnah - meeting with assassin). So maybe someone else. I think that in Szeth's book we might get Nalan's PoV - he surely was there and he certainly was doing something there and his connection to Szeth is indisputable. What do you think? Who could get the other two PoVs? (BTW, I wonder whether the back five will have Gavilar's assasination - I doubt it. Brandon may be exceptional writer, but doing ten different viewpoints of the same event, with each being interesting and unveiling some new events? I don't think it possible. Maybe the back five will have another important event for prologues.)
  20. i have been thinking and reading several threads have led me to think about the visions. A death rattle was recorded by an individual known to have visions during high storms. Gavilar had them (is there actual proof of that?) and Dalinar has them. Can multiple people have these visions? Are they the same for everyone? How does a vision work? It seems that Dalinar can interact very specifically with his visions. He can fight beasts, the radiant notices his skill at fighting and tells him to go to Urithiru to become a radiant. Does this have an impact on the past or the man (Heb?) who's body he was in during the vision? Did he influence Nohadon to write the Way of Kings? Is there more to this than we have seen so far?
  21. So I have been re-reading WoR and have noticed something perhaps significant. So it is time for my first theory. After a few Sanderson novels, I have come to expect initial impressions and suspicions to be reversed. Who/whatever you think is the antagonist at the beginning never ends up as such. For example (beware of spoilers): -Treledees -Denth and Vasher -Preservation -The Lord Ruler (I would still say he was evil but he was not what you thought) I could probably go on. The point has been made, however, thus I won't. There is probably a similar reversal down the pipe in the Stormlight Archive. Starting with odium. I think it is fairly clear that odium is evil. Storms, he is the shard of hatred! Also, Hoid has a very poor opinion of Rayse, which probably does count for something. However, there is something else of note down this vein in the Stormlight Archive, linked to all these secret societies. We know that Gavilar was assassinated because he approached the Parshendi wishing to bring back the voidbringers. We also know that Taravangian loosely aligned with Gavilar. We also know that both of these people at least started out wishing to save the world, but it looks like what they actually tried to do was quite destructive. We also know that Ameram was interested in bringing back the voidbringers. And the ghostbloods are embroiled in all of this but we have no idea what they are looking for. So lots of people are interested in either bringing back the voidbringers or averting their return. I also want to highlight the "cover synopsis" of the Way of Kings: From the above information, I feel we can conclude two things: 1. The presence of radiants is associated with the desolations. Correctly or incorrectly, many presume a causal relationship between the return of voidbringers and the return of radiants. It would be interesting if this assumption was in fact correct. 2. The fact that both voidbringers and radiants have disappeared is not necessarily a good thing. So in light of this, Gavilar's efforts, one way or another, may have actually be saving Roshar. He tells Dalinar to "find the most important words a man can say" which probably means the radiant oaths. He tries to return the voidbringers, but this may actually be an attempt to restore the radiants as well. However, Gavilar foretells the approach of the everstorm to Taravangian. It even seems that all of his efforts are to prepare for the everstorm. So why would he be trying to bring back voidbringers? Wouldn't he realize that the voidbringers would cause the everstorm? It is possible he did not. Or perhaps the everstorm would have come eventually even if Eshonai hadn't caused it. Then there is also the motives of the society Ameram is a member of. We don't know very much about those other than that Ameram wants the voidbringers to return. I am inclined to believe Ameram's motives are not good, based on what he did to Kaladin. And there is the ghostbloods, which contains worldhoppers. The presence of worldhoppers implies that their motives are connected to the actual struggle between shards of adolnasium, something I doubt the others are keenly aware of or embroiled in. However, their motives are as of yet an enigma. All that being said, this theory doesn't really have a resounding conclusion. On the contrary, I am really making the point that we are probably wrong about a lot. Nevertheless, in conclusion: The return of the voidbringers means more than we think it does. Given that multiple groups are competing to return the voidbringers, there is probably some benefit to be had for whoever first creates voidbringers. However, restoring the voidbringers might not be as insane of an idea as we think. Gavilar might actually have been saving Roshar.
  22. So after I saw something that said that the gemstone in a sphere affects the light color, I started thinking about Gavilar's sphere. I always assumed that it contained investiture from Odium as opposed to Honor. My new conclusion however, is that the gemstone could have corrupted the stormlight, producing the same effect as nightblood's corrupted investiture. We have a WOB that the investiture that fuels nightblood is not gone, simply unusable. If Gavilar had figured out how to manipulate this type of investitiure the possibilities for its uses would be huge, because that investiture would not be influenced by a shard.
  23. So - umm - since I've bonded this Theoryspren I figured I should probably progress a bit. You know. Working towards the Second Oath, and all. also, Tricorder isn't talking to me yet. I've been doing some reading - there's a bunch of threads about this already, but since I wasn't certain how the perspective on thread necromancy was here I thought I'd throw in a few lines of my own, just some wild thoughts. This is about the Godspren and Odium's Investiture on Roshar. The following is an attempt to keep things more organised. I'm autistic, we're great at organising. This is a suggestion, something I'd like to try: I'll add a big fat Presupposition tag, so that we can actually discuss everything under the presumption that the premises are axiomatic. If you want to speculate under other presumptions, please make a new thread - you link to this thread and/or write me a PM, and I'll link them right in the first post. Please forgive me not being big on quoting sources here. I usually do that, but I want to get that theory down and not get sidetracked while trying to find quotes that back it up. I'm determined to add these later, if I talk some utter crem, let me know immediately, I'll alter this. Presupposition(s): Odium didn't Invest in Roshar, unlike Cultivation and Honor Honor is dead The Allmighty is Honor. Honor is dead, Cultivation may not be (Source: Hoid). Whenever there are two gods, there are three magics to go with them (see Ruin and Preservation vs. Dominion and Devotion). So, there are two gods on Roshar, one dead, one hiding (Nightwatcher), what if there's a third..? That brings me to the Odium-spren or not-Odium-spren. If my presupposition stands, then Odium has not Invested into Roshar and instead corrupted native spren, like he most likely corrupted Venli. What if there's a third spren? Cultivation's godspren, trapped in Gavilar's black sphere? Corrupted by Odium? What if this is one of the Listener gods, one they were right to be terrified of? Looking forward to hearing your ideas.
  24. Words of Radiance, Chapters 59, 60 and 61 Epigraphs, pages 725, 733, and 746 (emphasis mine). We know this to be Frost, the Dragon from Yolen, replying to Hoid's letter. Over the last few years, people have teased some answers out of Brandon here and there, and we now know that Hoid was actually the name of Hoid's master many years ago. And, obviously, the current alias is Wit, but what about that first part? Another quote somewhere (I couldn't find it, though) states that one of Hoid's old names was Topaz (correct me if I'm wrong), so it could be that Frost is asking after his aliases, after all, he opens without knowing to whom he should address his letter. I could be that "the gemstone" is simply a reference to his old name, and that that alias died, and Hoid did whatever regeneration thing he does, moved on, and picked a new name. I do not think that that is the case. The Way of Kings, Chapter 57, page 801 (emphasis mine) I hereby theorize that it is the gemstone itself that died, not the alias itself. Perhaps something Hoid did "killed" it, or him using it lead to its "death." More on this later. Now, I was reading through some WoBs, and I found this: Which relates to the section in WoR chapter 54 when Hoid name-drops Adonalsium, blows it off, talks about taking people apart and stitching them back together, and says his goodbyes to Dalinar. I would say that this subject was very important to Hoid, as Dalinar notes that he seems preoccupied, which is quite unusual. This WoB tells us a few things. 1. The secret society that Gavilar was part of knew, at the very least, the name "Adonalsium." 2. The secret society also knows more about the History of the Knights Radiant, Honor, and the Desolations, than the average Rosharan. 3. Hoid needs to know about them for some reason. What else do we know about Gavilar? Not much, except that he handed Szeth a black glowing sphere upon his death, saying "they must not get it." Another WoB I found: I theorize that this sphere is the gemstone after which Hoid was named, and it has since died, which is why it has gone black and weird. Hoid is looking for it, which is why he wanted to know if Dalinar knew anything about Gavilar's secret society. Frost asked if he has given up on it, now that it is dead. Perhaps he meant "given up on looking for it," rather than "given up on the alias." Source. Since Brandon didn't correct the questioner, this could confirm that the black sphere was at least a gemstone. So? Thoughts? Feel free to poke holes, theorize, and add to this as you will. Thank you for reading.
  25. Possible spoilers for WoR below. Why are the Heralds present during Gavilars assassination? The Heralds I noticed are 1. Nalan the Azish man with the white birthmark on his cheek. Or was it a scar? 2. Another Herald (Kalak/Ishar) talking to Nalan. “I’m worried about Ash.” “You’re worried about everything.” Jasnah hesitated in the hallway. “She’s getting worse,” the voice continued. “We weren’t supposed to get worse. Am I getting worse? I think I feel worse.” “Shut up.” “I don’t like this. What we’ve done was wrong. That creature carries my lord’s own Blade. We shouldn’t have let him keep it. He—” Here I think "Ash" = Shalash, "That creature" = Szeth, "my Lord" = Jezrien, "Blade" = Honor Blade 3. Shalash is/had been present there. She is confirmed to be Baxil's mistress. Szeth notices that Shalash's statue in the palace was conspicuously missing while the other nine heralds were represented. It had been destroyed by her. Szeth brushed by, continuing past a line of statues depicting the Ten Heralds from ancient Vorin theology. Jezerezeh, Ishi, Kelek, Talenelat. He counted off each one, and realized there were only nine here. One was conspicuously missing. Why had Shalash’s statue been removed? What is so interesting in a treaty between Alethi and Parshendi that warrants the attendance of 3 (atleast) Heralds? It seems too much of a coincidence whatever be the significance of the event. Did they attend knowing that the Parshendi were voidbringers and that this event will have some crucial part to play in the Desolation to come?