Search the Community
Showing results for tags 'feruallo'.
Found 1 result
This forum is mainly a response to the thread entitled "Compounding Mechanics", posted by 18th Shard. Here is the link: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4633-compounding-mechanics/#comment-74496 In that post, 18th Shard theorizes about the mechanics of the magic system and proposes the following possible forms of compounding: Allomancy powering Feruchemy Feruchemy powering Allomancy Allomancy powering Hemalurgy Feruchemy powering Hemalurgy Hemalurgy powering Feruchemy Hemalurgy powering Allomancy This post will cover my personal opinions on the mechanics of these systems as well as the mechanics of the possible compounding types. Feel free to make comments on my theories, propose your own ideas, and mention anything that you believe that I missed. Check out the above link for the mechanics proposed by 18th Shard in his post. First, we have Allomancy powering Feruchemy, or what I call AlloFeru compounding. This type of compounding has been directly proven by the novel, and was used by the Lord Ruler in the first Mistborn novel as well as Miles Hundredlives from the Alloy of Law novel to gain feruchemical power 10x that of the amount stored inside a metalmind by burning it allomantically. I am going over this one because there were debates on how it works. Some people argue that allomancy is merely magnifying the feruchemical effect, but I don't think this is the case. I believe that the feruchemical charge is a filter for the investiture typically gained while burning a metal. So burning a metalmind gives you the same amount of power usually gained from allomantically burning a metal, but in the form of feruchemical power. Also, you only gain the feruchemical effect while burning a metalmind, none of the allomantic effects, so the feruchemical charge in essence creates a new allomantic metal that gives a feruchemical attribute. In a way, the steel without feruchemical charges already has a filter for the investiture, simply by being the right alloy to be an allomantic metal. Let's say, for example, that steel has an innate filter of 0.1 allomantic "charge" (steelpushing) per gram of steel. When burned, investiture is taken from the power of Preservation, and because of the end-positive nature of allomancy, the power is used through the filter, resulting in 10x the power of the filter, in this case 1 allomantic charge per gram. If I were to instead feruchemically invest that piece of steel with 1 feruchemical "charge" (speed) per gram, the steel would adopt the new filter instead, overwriting the original allomantic filter. However, allomancy is still end-positive, so when the steel with the feruchemical filter is burned, the investiture output still results in 10x the power of the filter, or 10 "charges" of speed per gram in this case. I believe the filters and charges for the metals has to do with how the metal views itself in the Cognitive Realm, but that gets into Realmatic Theory, and I am not very experienced in that subject. Next, Feruchemy powering Allomancy, or FeruAllo compounding, seems the most likely other than the already existing AlloFeru compounding. This is the type of compounding that I believe that the Lord Ruler used to drastically increase his Allomantic ability. The original idea proposed for FeruAllo compounding in the post is that you can burn an allomantic metal, then somehow store the allomantic ability in a metalmind instead of using it instantly. This would be beneficial so that the allomantic power could be tapped at much higher rates than possible with normal allomancy for greater power. The difficulty with this theory is that there is no known way to store allomantic power. The first theory presented on the forum argued that because AlloFeru compounding only required that a metalborn be a misting and a ferring in the same metal, the same should be true for FeruAllo compounding. They believed that a metal can store two things: both its feruchemical and allomantic powers. I do not personally support this theory because I feel that AlloFeru compounding works by using both the mechanics of Allomancy and Feruchemy, not by breaking those rules. In Allomancy, one can burn a specific metal and the investiture of Preservation gives them an ability, they are not burning a specific trait or ability, while in Feruchemy they are storing a trait, not a specific metal. So, AlloFeru compounding works because an allomancer can burn the metal independent of what feruchemical traits are attached to that metal, but FeruAllo compounding does not work this way because a feruchemist can only store the specific trait, they cannot store the allomantic abilities that can come from burning that metal. The second theory was that allomantic abilities could be burned and stored by a feruchemist in a nicrosilmind because nicrosil stores investiture. This seemed the most likely to me at first, but when Sanderson released BoM, nicrosil was used in a different way, though I suppose this method could still be possible using a metal with an unknown feruchemical ability (feruchemical lerasium?). The alternate theory that I came up with, which seems the most reasonable to me, has some BoM spoilers so... It is at this point that we get into the more complicated types of compounding, mostly due to the fact that Hemalurgy comes into play. The idea behind Allomancy powering Hemalurgy (AlloHema) is that an allomancer spikes someone to steal a trait from them, then burns that spike, giving the allomancer the stolen trait with increased power. The downside to this is that because the allomancer burns the spike, they gain the trait only as long as they are burning the spike. This theory is somewhat likely, but I believe that there is a slight problem. Similar to when an allomancer burns a metalmind that isn't theirs, the allomancer in this case may be locked out of the power within the spike because it isn't attuned to their spiritweb. The way I see it, there are two different ways to get around this. First, an allomancer could burn a hemalurgic spike that stole an ability from them. The problems with this are that they most likely died from having that part of their spiritweb ripped from the rest of them (though it is possible that they survived), and their spiritweb may not actually be attuned to the ability because that part of their spiritweb was stolen from them. This would also not be very beneficial to them. By burning that spike, they would get increased power for a short time, but as soon as the metal of the spike was gone, they would have lost that ability forever. The other way I see to bypass this is for an allomancer to steal the trait from another person, then spike themself so that the power in the spike is part of their spiritweb. Sanderson has mentioned before that inquisitors could have theoretically burned their eye spikes, but it would have been extremely painful and would have knocked them unconscious. It would most likely be painful because the inquisitor would be burning away part of their spiritweb, ripping it away from them, similar to the way that traits are stolen during Hemalurgy. However, if one could somehow find a way to get rid of or tolerate the pain, they would be able to access the trait given to them by the spike with increased power, even though it would only last as long as they burned the spike. However, it may be impossible to get over the pain, making this form of compounding basically useless. One interesting interaction I thought about was using this form of compounding with, for example, a steel spike granting allomantic steel. By burning the spike, you increase the allomantic power of your steel, which increases the power with which you burn the steel spike, increasing the power again, repeating over and over again almost instantly giving the user infinitely powerful steel allomancy. If this is possible, it would only be possible with metals that could grant their own allomantic ability, such as steel, bronze, aluminum (inert), atium, and one other unknown allomantic temporal metal (not gold- most likely cadmium). The possibilities with these metals (except aluminum) are all interesting; let me know what you think. Next is Feruchemy powering Hemalurgy (FeruHema), where you steal a hemalurgic attribute, then store the attribute in a metalmind to be able to tap at larger rates for greater power. There is a similar problem with this method of compounding as there was with the previous method, namely that the spike's power is not attuned to the compounder. So, similarly, the spike would have to be a trait that was stolen from you, or you would have to spike yourself with the stolen trait. The main debate for this type of compounding is whether feruchemical and hemalurgic charges can interact with each other. If they do, then a feruchemist should be able to directly tap the spike for the stolen trait. My main problem with this theory is that there is no limit to how much hemalurgic charge one can tap from the spike, and though it would probably be related to how powerful the victim was in the stolen trait, it doesn't seem likely that the charges would interact in this way because they are separate systems. My personal theory has spoilers again... Compounding types powered by Hemalurgy, HemaAllo and HemaFeru compounding, are... well... I think they are simpler than they appear. Actually, I believe that they have been used in the series already. The methods for these types of compounding as they were presented in the other post, I believe, are incorrect. Now, this is just a theory, so don't get upset, but compounding is the method of using one of the metallic arts to boost another, and the ideas for those two types of compounding in the post are only used to share investitures with others. For HemaFeru compounding, I believe that feruchemically storing an attribute into a spike would provide a filter, similar to how the feruchemical charge in AlloFeru compounding provided a filter for the power supplied through Allomancy. However, in this case the filter restricts what can be stored and gained during the hemalurgic process. So if I stored feruchemical speed in a spike, I would only be able to steal not only just feruchemical steel, but only my feruchemical steel because the feruchemical charge is attuned to my spiritweb. And, unless I stole my own feruchemical speed through Hemalurgy, I would not be able to steal an attribute from another person because of the filter. Either this is the case, or feruchemical and hemalurgic charges have no interaction with each other, in which case the spike would simply act as it normally would, stealing an attribute, not granting the other person feruchemical charges. For HemaAllo compounding, there is simply no way to store allomantic power in the spike. However, if there was a way, I believe that it would act in a similar way, creating a filter as the feruchemical charge did and having the same result. My theory is that these types of compounding are where you already have an investiture, for example allomantic bronze, and you spike someone and steal their allomantic bronze in order to boost your own allomantic bronze. Sound familiar? If this is the correct way to compound, then Vin was a compounder the entire time. The same goes with HemaFeru compounding, boosting feruchemical power by stealing the same attribute from another person. Its boring, I know, but I believe that it makes the most sense. I wanted to add a little note at the bottom here to suggest the idea that multiple forms of compounding could be used in conjunction with one another, for example AlloFeruAllo compounding, where one stores allomantic investiture, then burns the metalmind for even greater power (or AlloFeruAlloFeruAllo... compounding). There are other combinations that include hemalurgic compounding as well, but I will let you guys look into those on your own. I realize that some of the methods of compounding in this chapter did not follow the compounding rules presented on the forum, but I do not feel that renders these forms of compounding particularly impossible or unlikely. If you feel I have broken fundamental rule of a metallic art, let me know. Edit: If you stored Allomantic Nicrosil investiture in a nicrosilmind and compounded it, it may result in unlimited nicrosil power, and one could compound other nicrosilminds of other investitures to have unlimited power in those Investitures.