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Found 53 results

  1. I. The Death Rattle The Coppermind has the following explanation for this Death Rattle: "This rattle apparently refers to the sixteen Shards of Adonalsium, three of which (Honor, Cultivation, and Odium) are invested in Roshar." But that is obviously wrong, Odium has not invested in Roshar, he refuses to invest anywhere because that would prevent him from pursuing and killing other shards. At present he is confined to Braize because of his pact with Honor. A much better explanation of the Death Rattle is that initially Honor, Cultivation and a third shard were the ones who had invested in Roshar. II. A New Shard Which shard could that be? A WoB from 2017: Since the entire Rosharan system was created by Adonalsium, Ingenuity would be a good fit, it would be naturally interested in an ingenious creation of Adonalsium. III. Fabrials The magic associated with Ingenuity would be fabrials. Moreover the current fabrials are imitations of Ingenuity's true fabrials which won't require enslaving spren. Ingenuity's magic is the creation of preprogrammed machines that run on investiture without the someone actively channelling the investiture. Basically Ingenuity allows for Automated Magic Machines also knowns as "AMM Machines" :)) IV. The Sibling The godspren of ingenuity is the Sibling (similar to Honor and Stormfather or Cultivation and Nightwatcher). The Knights Radiant have investiture from all three shards, Honor, Cultivation and Ingenuity. In particular if we set aside Bondsmiths the remaining nine orders are divided into three groups of three each dominated by one of the shards. In particular Willshapers and Dustbringers have more Ingenuity than Honor or Cultivation (and there is of course the idea that shardplates are themselves a type of fabrial). V. Leaving Roshar When Odium killed Honor, Ingenuity (a) was scared; (b) felt responsible; (c) was responsible; or (d) a combination of all three. So Ingenuity left Roshar which resulted in the Sibling slumbering (or maybe he deliberately turned it off). VI. Predictions RoW focuses on Willshapers (an order close to Ingenuity) and Navani is trying to awaken the Sibling while advancing fabrial sciences. I think this book will have a lot of information about Ingenuity here are some other predictions: Navani will awaken and bond with the Sibling making her the second Bondsmith. Remember the way to access a shard's invested art is related to their intent (for example you have to "ruin" something for hemalurgy). So you have to do something ingenious to get to ingenuity's magic and Navani with her ship is all set for that. Mirroring Frost's reply to Hoid in WoR we will either see a letter from Hoid to Ingenuity or Ingenuity's reply to Hoid (there are two ways to mirror). The Dawnshards will be related to Ingeniuty. VII. Odds and Ends I picked Willshapers and Dustbringers as close to Ingenuity because both orders are closely associated with engineering, logistics, building and infrastructure. I found it interesting that both the lightspren and the ashspren have the most negative view of the humans. This might be related to Ingenuity's role in Honor's fight with Odium. And here is my grouping of the Knights Radiant orders: Honor: Skybreakers, Windrunners, Elsecallers. Cultivation: Truthwatchers, Edgedancers, Lightweavers. Ingenuity: Willshapers, Dustbringers, Stonwards.
  2. Chapter 14 Voice Why would you need a logicspren to power a fabrial that already uses a different spren, stormlight, and metals to produce an effect?
  3. Im wondering if anyone knows if Brandon calls out specific gem cut styles when describing gems for Sphere and fabrials. It seems likely specific cuts are better then others rather than it being an arbitrary detail. Coppermind only says that cut gems hold more stormlight somehow. Hopefully this question doesn't Rafo'd or something.
  4. In which way do you think ferruchemy and hemalurgy will affect fabrials? Imagine the possibilities, like maybe projection to a feruchemist stored memory or something crazy like that
  5. Yes, technically there are already two other threads about this. I still started this one, since it's a little different topic: instead of speaking mainly about fabrials, here I wish to discuss the connection between every application of any metal in the four magic systems: allomancy, feruchemy, hemalurgy and fabrials. I might've lost myself in the middle of that sentence, I hope you understood me. anyway, what we've seen so far: Iron - A: pulls on metals. Fe: stores weight. H: steals strength. Fa: changes polarity (whatever that means)/attracts attribute. Steel - A: pushes on metals. Fe: stores physical speed. H: steals physical allomantic powers. Fa: same as Iron. Tin - A: enhances senses. Fe: stores senses. H: steals senses. Fa: diminishes attribute. Pewter - A: enhances strength and balance. Fe: storing physical strength. H: steals physical feruchemical powers. Fa: expresses attribute. Zinc - A: riots emotions. Fe: stores mental speed. H: steals emotional fortitude. Fa: manifests the spren more strongly. Brass - A: soothes emotions. Fe: stores warmth. H: steals cognitive feruchemy. Fa: makes the spren withdraw. Copper - A: hides allomantic pulses. Fe: stores memory. H: steals mental fortitude, memory, and intelligence. Fa: unknown. Bronze - A: allows to hear allomantic pulses. Fe: stores wakefulness. H: steals mental allomancy. Fa: warns of things getting close. Aluminum - A: wipes internal allomantic reserves. Fe: stores Identity. H: removes all powers. Fa: cuts connection, no other known function. Duralumin - A: quickly burns any burning metals in powerful burst. Fe: stores connection. H: steals connection and identity. Fa: unknown. Chromium - A: wipes out target's allomantic reserves. Fe: stores furtune. H: might steal destiny? Fa: unknown. Nicrosil - A: enhances allomantic burn of target. Fe: stores investiture. H: steals investiture. Fa: unknown. Gold - A: shows past self (or alternative present self). Fe: stores health. H: steals hybrid feruchemy. Fa: unknown, probably known in-world. Electrum - A: shows possible future of the burner. Fe: stores determination. H: steals enhancement allomancy. Fa: unknown. Cadmium - A: slows down time. Fe: stores breath. H: steals temporal allomancy. Fa: unknown. Bendalloy - A: speeds up time. Fe: stores energy. H: steals spiritual feruchemy. Fa: unknown. Now, there are patterns inside each magic system, if you look for it, though so far only allomancy and hemalurgy have sensible division for each metal. For now, it might be better to stick to discussing only the lower metals - the first eight, since we understand those the most, and know mostly all of their applications in the magic systems (lets use the acronym MS for that) in discussion. Tin is irregular because it's the only one that does exactly the same in the first three MSs. I can't actually see any thorough connection between one metal's applications in all the MSs, and it's a little late at night in my country, and since I'm also lazy I'll leave you to think over it.
  6. Theory on the Sibling: The Sibling was the “Godspren” who managed Urithiru, and was capable of a Nahel Bond to a Bondsmith. I believe that the Sibling is inside the gemstone column in the Urithiru gemstone archive. Allow me to explain why. So, we know that a very powerful spren can be captured in a sizable perfect gemstone. Such a gemstone could potentially be used to create a Fabrial. Both Shallan and Renarin have claimed that Urithiru is not a collection of Fabrials; rather, it is a single Fabrial. This brings us to the gemstone column in Urithiru. None of the gemstones on the column look like they would be able to hold a spren as powerful as the Sibling. However, all we see is the outside of the column. On the inside, I believe there is a massive gemstone, possibly an emerald or ruby, that contains the Sibling. The gemstones on the outside of the column are likely tied together with metals to the interior main gemstone where the Sibling resides. These exterior gems hold spren are probably used by the Sibling to regulate the tower’s functions somehow. Whomever the Sibling is bonded to can request the Sibling to do something, such as increase crop production. The Sibling then activates the specific set of Fabrials in the column that controls such a function. There may be a failsafe if the Bondsmith bonded with the Sibling dies, although the Sibling could probably run the tower on its own. In addition, Renarin claims that the column is a Fabrial that is used to “be a city.” This adds to the possibility that the Sibling is inside the column, as many of the speakers in the gemstone recordings associate the Sibling with the tower itself. One of the principles of Fabrial technology we have learned from the epigraphs is that a spren cannot inhabit a gemstone with Stormlight infusing it. It stands to reason that the reverse is true; Stormlight cannot infuse a gemstone with a spren inside of it. Dalinar cannot infuse the column is because the Sibling is inside, as well as the other spren inside the gemstones making up the column. Syl mentions that Urithiru once glowed with a strange kind of light in her interlude. This could be the kind of gaseous Investiture associated with Cultivation (growthlight?), or it could be spren inside Fabrials, which sometimes glow with abnormal colors according to Navani’s prologue. Navani mentioned in Oathbringer that Urithiru has a “heart of emerald (pulp) and ruby(fire), with veins of garnet (blood).” When the Sibling is awake, perhaps these veins glow with Stormlight, Cultivationlight/Growthlight, or another color altogether. Another possibility is that, instead of the Sibling being inside a perfect gemstone, the Sibling was wounded somehow. To repair it, the splinters of its power were gathered and placed inside smaller gemstones and weave together with a lattice of metal. So then, what happened? Before the Recreance, the Sibling withdrew. Many of the tower’s functions stopped working, prompting the abandonment of Urithiru. What I believe happened was that, a bit of time before the Recreance, the Bondsmith bonded to the Sibling broke his/her Oaths. The Sibling was too powerful to be turned into a deadeye, but was sent into a coma-like state. This “slumber” is why the tower stopped working, and hasn’t for the last 2,000 years. This aligns with what the Stormfather said when Dalinar asked about the Sibling: “you have hurt them enough!” You (a Bondsmith) have hurt (broken Oaths) them (the Sibling). None of the Gemstone recordings mention a Bondsmith breaking their Oaths, as it would be a huge blow to morale. Where are we now? It has been 2,000 years since the Sibling began it’s slumber. Awakening the Sibling will be a difficult task, requiring more than just zinc wires. I believe that it will require a person with a personality similar to what kind of people Bonded with the Sibling in the first place. Such a Bond will be necessary for the Rosharans to survive the True Desolation. What does everyone think of my theory?
  7. So I’m doing a reread of Oathbringer and at the beginning of Shallan's chapter The Girl Who Looked Up she is thinking about the tower. She says something about the tower being a skeleton and the strata being veins. Here's the paragraph: That got me thinking about how Urithiru might have been like a fabrial and all that. From there I started comparing it to a body. If the gemstone tower is the heart, then what if the strata is actually gemstones that are like veins. They carry Stormlight. That would provide illumination and spread Stormlight throughout the tower. I don’t know if this would actually be possible, but it got me really excited when I thought about it. I just found some more evidence. At one point Shallan mentions that the strata has an emerald cast. “An alien color for stone.” I doubt the strata would have been heavily researched. It is often described of having a red cast, which could be ruby.
  8. This is my first post, so please go easy on me as this is a bit of a disjointed theory. Speaking with a friend while reading through Oathbringer, we were talking about what might be the other 2 Bondsmith Spren. I think everyone assumes the Nighwatcher is the 2nd. The "one that slumbers", I don't think is a crazy stretch to assume is possibly a spren somewhat entangled with Uruthiru. If honor and cultivation are responsible for half of the surges on the Surgebinding chart, how is the 3rd Bondsmith spren connected to the magic system? My thought is that the 3rd spren, Uruthiru's spren, is connected to the ancient fabrials. In a similar way that Shardblades and Shardplate are bastardizations of what was originally wielded by Surgebinders, I believe modern fabrials apply a misunderstanding of the original fabrials. Where Shardblades are dead spren, the fabrials trap or enslave spren to perform a function. Bringing this all together, I believe Navani starts to make some discoveries when it comes to fabrials, and eventually bonds with the spren of Uruthiru. She will come to be horrified about how modern fabrials have enslaved spren. I'm not a big fan of the possibility of all the Kholins becoming surgebinders, but this just seems to straight forward.
  9. Like quite a few others on the 17S Discord Server, I had one major nagging question after the SDCC Reading. How does the fabrial we see work? While it's effects are somewhat clearly shown, the method behind it is very important to understanding the weapon, and to understand the nature of the arms-race that is apparently going to be an essential part of Rhythm of War. Although this theory definitely does have holes, I think it's a fairly elegant solution, though it's definitely not perfect. To start let me lay out the basic groundwork my theory builds on. Maybe I'm wrong about this, since I can't find the reading on Arcanum yet, but I remember Syl saying something along the lines of 'I felt faded, distant' when Kaladin asked her about the effects of the fabrial. Despite it's ability to block Radiants from surgebinding, the Fused seems to find no issue. Lift, notably, is also affected by the aura of the machine. Finally, Kaladin is still able to hold Stormlight, but not use it. My theory is essentially this: The fabrial somehow pushes the Realms apart, weakening the Physical presence of Spren, and weakening Radiants ability to access the Nahel bond. This theory seems at first a simple, clean answer, that makes at least some Realmatic sense (to my admittedly weak understanding of Realmatics). It also, to me at least, seems to line up that if a Perpendicularity can pull the Realms closer, an 'anti-Perpendicularity' can push them apart. When the Realms are pushed apart like this, a Spren has to reach 'further' to give the Radiant the benefits of their bond, thuse causing the weakening, or in the specific case we saw, elimination of the powers given by that bond. The information we have does make it somewhat difficult to come to such a simple conclusion, due especially to the apparent specialized nature of the fabrial, in blocking Radiants but not Fused. Indeed, at first, this seemed to be the end of the road for my theory when I discussed it briefly on Discord. However, there is a simple work-around that makes a decent amount of sense. You can't stretch a bond when the Spren is wholely in the Physical Realm. So, a second claim is necessary to make this theory work. Singer bonds bring the spren wholely and irreversably (unless released) into the Physical. There's no apparant reason, from what I've seen, that this would be implausible, and it would make for interesting implications for the future of the war: fabrials that can be used as weapons would be the only counter to the 'anti-Perpendicularity', and thus, we have out arms-race, since fabrials, like Singers, trap Spren in gemstones. Radiants, on the other hand, strengthen their bond with each Oath, and the Fifth Ideal, the way I see it, likely brings the Spren into the Physical Realm. To conclude, based on the information in the Sand Diego Comic Con reading, it seems logical to me to say that the fabrial we see used by the singers pushes the three Realms apart, and makes things like the Nahel bond, which operate through multiple Realms, substantially weaker. However, a Spren trapped in a gemstone, like in the case of Singer bonds, or another fabrial, is wholly in the Physical, and so cannot be pulled apart from their host the same way. Radiants who have sworn their Fifth Oath, giving their Spren total access to the Physical realm, and full Physical manifestation, would likely similarly be unaffected by a fabrial like this, or at the least affected substantially less. I'd love to hear back from some of you awesome Sharders out there with feedback, refutations, or just critiques of my theory. I'm sorry I don't have a lot of textual evidence for this, but I don't have a transcription of the reading, and I don't have time to look back into the books or rewatch the video for references at this time.
  10. On dear ol' mother Earth, the invention of the steam engine kicked off the industrial revolution. So I had two questions. Does the existence of modern fabrials and the exploration thereof constitute the beginning of the Rosharan industrial revolution in and of itself or do they need to create a motor/engine? If they need to create a motor/engine what form would it take? Would it be entirely some form of fabrial? OR would it be a hybrid of physics and investiture (say a steam engine with the water heated by a heating fabrial) or something else entirely? If you were the fabrial engineer how would YOU do it?
  11. theory

    This theory started as a crazy idea in my head (that Voidbinding might be Odium's equivalent of fabrial magic system rather than Surgebinding), but the more I thought about it, the more sense it had, so here it goes: The nature of Odium's magic Based on what we can infer from the nature of the Unmade and the Fused, Odium's magic typically seems to be a twisted and corrupted version of something that already exists. The Fused (and most of the forms of power) were Odium's response to Surgebinders. From a recent reading of this Rhythm of War we know that the Nightwatcher is not a “natural” spren – she was specifically created by Cultivation to not be influenced by the perceptions of humans and given very specific powers (the Old Magic) – and the Unmade seem to mimic that. Although that might seem counterintuitive at first, I believe that Voidbinding and fabrials might be connected in a similar way. Fabrials originated on Ashyn We know that the magic on Ashyn wasn't always disease-based, but used Surges somehow. Given that: we have a WoB suggesting that fabrials existed on Ashyn the Dawnshards (originally from Ashyn) and Surge fabrials are both linked to Aimia, which doesn't seem like a coincidence I assume that fabrials are the original magic system of Ashyn, which was then somehow moved to Roshar. On the origin of Voidbinding We know that Voidbinding (in most cases) originates with the Unmade. They can provide it in an indirect way: Sja-anat can corrupt true Spren and Ba-Ado-Mishram could possibly have been responsible for some Voidbinding-related forms of power (e.g. the Nightform) that are noticeably absent on modern Roshar. That's not “pure” Voidbinding, however – not in the sense described by the Voidbinding chart. The Unmade are probably the Voidbinding's equivalent of Bondsmith spren, granting Voidish versions of the Surges of Tension and Adhesion. But what about the other Voidbinding “orders” (levels?) shown in the Voidbinding chart? They are not only missing (their spren imprisoned on Braize?) but completely forgotten – in popular consciousness Voidbinding is only associated with the Unmade and predicting the future. Why is that? Voidbinding has ten levels, so it cannot be originally from Braize – that leaves us with either Roshar or Ashyn. It was well understood by humans once (someone must have created the chart, assuming it's an in-universe document) but it's barely known by the ancient Singers (Turash is surprised that the Voidspren can even bond humans). That strongly implies Ashyn – which makes sense. If Voidbinding existed (alongside fabrials) long before Surgebinding and the Fused, the knowledge of both was probably partially forgotten and partially suppressed, as they both might have been part of Ashyn's downfall. Voidbinding Initiation and the Wheel of Time analogy OK, so how do you become a Voidbinder? We know that humans can be temporarily affected by the Unmade (the Thrill, death rattles etc.) and even temporarily bond some (probably lesser) Voidspren (Amaram's army). That requires a particular mental state (broadly described as giving your pain or control to Odium), but that alone doesn't constitute Voidbinding yet. We have, however, one example of an attempted bond that goes further – Aesudan's and Amaram's bond with Yelig-nar, which requires swallowing a gemstone and trying to control him. While the first part is probably not necessary for all Voidbinding spren, I believe that gemstones and trying to control the power might be, next to the right emotional state, crucial elements of Voidbinding Initiation (though predicting how a said gemstone could be used is very hard). Based on that, we can actually make an interesting analogy to the basic principles of channeling from Wheel of Time. The magic of Ashyn represent saidin. You have to capture and take control of the spren in order to use magic. An incredible amount of power can be held by individuals with the help of Dawnshards (equivalents of saidin-specific Sa'angreal) and it literally led to the destruction of the world. Roshar, on the other hand, is more about saidar. Magic systems that originated there require a submission to either Oaths or Voidspren possession. What is more, Singers, the original inhabitants of Roshar, have the natural ability to link their power (just look at the summoning of the Everstorm) and in large number might potentially act like a saidar-specific Sa'angreal (I wonder if the whole Singer race could count as a Dawnshard different from the rest...)
  12. There is more to Cultivation's magic than just Surgebinding or Old Magic. If you think about it, it does make sense that there would be more. Half of the Nahel Bond spren are theorised to be more aligned towards Cultivation but the overall system of Surgebinding is more of Honor. The Nightwatcher too is one spren, there should be more than just her boons and banes. We do know that something like Cultivationlight exists, Cultivation's Investiture in gaseous form: Some people assume that Fabrials are Cultivation's magic, due to some WoBs like: Which makes it seem like there are one for each of the Shards. But I don't think so, after all aren't Fabrials just an outgrowth of the Surges? They are the same forces, being tapped into via artificial rather than the more organic means of spren bonding that we occurring on Roshar including the Parshendi/Singer/Listener (what would be the correct way to refer to them now?) Forms of Power, as well as the Nahel Bond itself. We do also have this WoB though: And that made me wonder, what if, in regards to Cultivation's magic, Fabrials are, once again, "a part of it" Let's observe the Old Magic then, which is confirmed to come from Cultivation for clues Now that's interesting... There is also the magic from Ashyn which is related: Okay, then what do they all have in common? I think this: This has been theorized before, of course, notably here: And it's only fitting, I suppose, that the Roshar and Scadrial comparisons come full circle here. Much like Feruchemy, Surgebinding is of two Shards but leans towards one, magitech! Fabrials and medallions (when will we get a canon name for this?) and this unnamed magic and Hemalurgy. I'm proposing that Cultivation's magic might be a... metamagic like Hemalurgy. That it can be used to modify things via the metaphysical realms but in a more broader sense than Hemalurgy. I suspect that we've already seen an example of this happening: Vyre's knife. A knife with a sapphire on the pommel that glowed when used against the Herald Jezrien. It shouldn't be impossible for Odium's forces to use it, after all: We do see situations close to what's described above in multiple Cosmere books. The Fused have access to the Surges, Allomancy being stolen via Hemalurgy.
  13. theory

    Let's start with some basic facts and my assumptions about the third magic system on Roshar: Fabrials are part of the third magic system (WoB) There is more to Cultivation's magic than Old Magic (WoB) and the green mist surrounding Cultivation and Nightwatcher seems to be Cultivationlight (WoB) Given that there are 30 magic systems on Roshar, I assume Cultivation's magic is also part of the third magic system Lift's boon seems to be the ability to use Cultivation's magic (WoB). There are also off-screen users of the same magic – I think the most reasonable candidate are the Sleepless, which are kind of Cultivation's agents (WoB) For Lift, food is the focus allowing her access to external Investiture (like metal on Scadrial, WoB). The exact type of accessed Investiture is a RAFO (WoB), but I assume this is Cultivationlight. If so, it can power Surgebinding (just like Stormlight can power fabrials) Given their short descriptions in Poem of Ista and their connection to Aimia (WoB), the Dawnshards seem vital for Surge fabrial creation I think the relation between Dawnshards and Surge fabrials is somehow similar to Honorblades and Shardblades/Shardplates (Surgebinding fabrial-like items) I assume that the analogy between Surge fabrials and Sharblades goes even further – the spren in these fabrials (unlike in modern fabrials) don't seem to be bound in the gemstones, but form the metal (godmetal) parts of the fabrial (Soulcaster chains, Oathgate keyhole). Or example, breaking the gemstones doesn't destroy the Soulcaster, but breaking the chains does. Gemstones are there to power and control the device (the latter also provides some analogy with bonding a dead Shardblade) What potential effects might Cultivation's magic provide? Here is the list of possible candidates I came up with – as you might suspect, they're generally very spren/fabrial–oriented: Wyndle believes that Lift exists partially in Cognitive Realm and this is supported by the fact that her shadow behaves abnormally with respect to the sun (WoB). It allows her to interact with spren in untypical ways (e.g. touch them). This is possibly the effect of Cultivationlight in her body If the magic system is inspired by the Dawnshards, imprisoning spren might be a part of it (an effect similar to what Timbre does to the Voidspren in Venli's gemheart). Lift even says this to Wyndle: It seems like a friendly teasing, but this might be foreshadowing hidden in plain sight Fixing broken Surge fabrials. Just like Stormlight is used for Shardplate regeneration, Cultivationlight might potentially be used to regrow fabrials (e.g. a broken Soulcaster) Continuing with the regrowth theme, I think Cultivationlight might be the key to reviving deadeyes Changing fabrial settings. Oathgates are currently tied to Urithiru route only, but it seems possible that they once provided transport between each other. Some Soulcasters provide many modes, but most are locked in one (safety measure?). I think Cultivation's magic might be the solution here, allowing its users to change fabrial's behavior I have absolutely no idea how Cultivation's magic can be obtained by humans (except by Nightwatcher's boon), but I believe there are multiple reasons why Adolin would be the perfect candidate for the first guy to achieve it: Killing Sadeas. At first it seems like an unnecessary plot with little to no payoff. But it proves that Adolin has the right mindset – he is ready to make a hard decision that would benefit all in the future (something that Cultivation would probably called “pruning” instead of murder). Such actions directly violate the First Ideal, but I don't think Cultivation's magic would have this type of restrictions. It would allow her agents to operate outside the bounds of Honor's oaths. Just look at Arclo killing two Skybreakers that followed him – it's not technically necessary (he admits it's barely self-defense), but, given their mission to eliminate Radiants, it saves lives in the long run Accepting necessary evil is something Shallan struggles with and Adolin could really help her with this. Kaladin could use some help as well It could potentially help him revive Maya Dalinar is a Surgebinder and Renarin is a quasi-Voidbinder – it would fit if Adolin had access to the third magic system (beyond fabrials, obviously). Also Dalinar can repair items with Tension/Adhesion and Renarin can heal people – it would be really interesting if Adolin could revive spren and fix fabrials Dalinar has access to huge amounts of Stormlight and Navani has the necessary knowledge, but Adolin might provide the catalyst to reboot Urithiru and wake the Sibling up
  14. A thought crossed my mind pondering the mechanics of color and Awakening. Since Awakening uses color as fuel, could gemstones (like the ones on Roshar) be used? If so, how would that affect the gemstone's function? I know that a some of the gemstones of Roshar are effectively only different in color and almost identical in chemical structure. Because of this, would a gemstone's ability to hold stormlight and trap spren be affected if its color was drained? If the gemstone that is drained were in a fabrial, how would it affect the fabrial's functionality? Are a gemstone's and a fabrial's magical properties about perception or more about physical properties? Also, I think the fact that it is practically impossible to draw from the color of living things suggests that investiture affects the accessibility of color. If this is true, I suppose that infused gemstones would be hard to use as color fuel. I suppose if someone used the color from spheres (although likely expensive in breath for the Awakening because of the relatively low amount of color) it would prove a headache to anyone who tried to use or trade them. What are your thoughts?
  15. So given what we know so far about gem fabrials what sort of practical technology do think could be made and how would you do it? Practically the MOST important invention of note so far has been the Smokestone Clock. In modern technology timing is everything! More Later. 1st off - Long Range Walkie-Talkies. Even though Brandon Sanderson sad that voice communications wont occur for a while, I would tend to think that its more of a cultural problem rather than current ability. Ironically the problem is a lack of tin cans. If you have cans sooner or later some enterprising kid invents the 2 cans and a string walkie-talkie. If you think about it that's all you really need. The spanreed fabrials react to motion! So 2 small drums attach a split ruby to the center of each drum head and speak. Your voice causes the drum head to vibrate your half of the ruby. The receiving ruby then vibrates the receiving drum head. The rubies are simply replacing the string. And drum heads vibrate nicely. That's all that older telephones used to do. Your voice vibrated a diaphragm connected to a magnet which sent an electrical signal down the line. And after this: 'Telephone' operators (ala Tashek)... And with that smokestone timing. Soooooo much more... 2nd - Motors. Two possibilities here depending on the route you want your tech to take: Steam Engine. Again all of the technology is there. Heat source is the Heating Fabrials. Gearing - any one who can make the gearing for watches can certainly make the gearing for the pistons and gears and brakes on a locomotive. And you don't even need to weld or forge the parts, just carve or mold them and soulcast them to iron. And Roshar certainly has enough water. Electric Motors. OK bit trickier but possible. Again probably large to start off with but picture this. A low sidded metal tub, the center of which is connected to your drive shaft (or substitute) In the Tub are 4 rods forming a X, made of two different types of metal. (Ex copper, tin, copper, tin) OK, using Attractors and Repellers. The tub is fitted with bearings over a stationary hub At 4 locations around the hub are sets of attractors/repellers. Two sets to attract/repel copper and two sets for tin. Engage the fabrials as two spoke approach it attractor as its turned off and as the spoke passes its repelled. So you wind you with a constant push/pull within the tub which in turn then turns the drive shaft. And how is all of this controlled so precisely? Timing. This could definitely be refined but hopefully you get the concept. SO WHAT DO YOU MAD GENIUSES SEE AS POSSIBLE AND HOW WOULD YOU ACCOMPLISH IT?
  16. I think there are two distinct forms of spren bonds on Roshar: - the KR/Herald human-to-Splinter bond; - the natural-magic bond, which requires a gem, uses the highstorms, and, at least in its basic form, involves a non-sapient spren. Everything else except the Old Magic (as always "its own weird thing") is derived from this - Voidbringer forms of power and fabrials being technologies based on, or "hacks" of, the natural system. The natural-magic spren bonds seem very common on Roshar, and the basic "gemheart process" seems quite ubiquitous - though smaller species may not produce anything significant enough to be seen as a gem/considered valuable by humans, "the same sort of chemistry" occurs... Honor's Innovation I think human Surgebinding, as used by the Heralds and KR*, is something distinctly different from everything else on Roshar. (*We're told in Oathbringer that ancient humans destroyed their land (Ashyn) with Surges. Yet we know the KR got Surgebinding when the spren imitated what Honor had done with the Honorblade-Herald bond... which post-dates the arrival of humans on Roshar. So whatever destroyed Ashyn can't have been quite the same Surgebinding as the modern KR are using. That weirdness aside...) The Honorblades don't involve any gems trapping spren (the Heralds started as regular humans, and we now know Surgebinders don't grow gemhearts) and - originally, when Honor was alive - didn't use regular Stormlight derived from the Highstorms; they were directly powered by Honor. When the spren imitated the system, they didn't have the direct Shardic "Investiture feed", so the KR started using Stormlight and trapping it in gems, moving things back toward the natural magic. But it's still something different in origin, and KR Surgebinding keeps the Honorblades' Surge pairings - 10 sets of 2 Surges each. Forms of Power The Forms of Power (stormform, envoyform, etc.) seem (to me anyway) to be Odium's "hack" of the Rosharan natural magic. The singers/listeners' normal forms (dullform, warform etc) use weak local spren that bind to the gemheart in a highstorm (providing Stormlight). Odium has added in voidspren to provide the Forms of Power. In this Desolation, the Everstorm replaces the highstorm's role in the natural bond, but apparently something else happened in ancient Desolations. Fused "Pseudo-Surgebinding" I really am unsure about this one. The Fused who use Surges apparently do not use the same Surge pairings as the Heralds/Honorblades and KR/Nahel-bonding spren. According to Moash, there are 9 "orders" of Fused, and it seems each can use just one Surge. The Stormfather refers to the Fused 'learning' how to use Surges, so their abilities might not have originated as a direct Shardic gift in the same way as Honor initiating Surgebinding by giving out the Honorblades. Are they similar to the Forms of Power, with the Fused itself (now having become a Cognitive Shadow) acting as the spren bound to the body's gemheart, and having enough Investiture to use Surges directly? Or (given the use of 9 in this system) is this actually a Braize magic system, with the Surges themselves being common to all three planets?
  17. At the Seattle Skyward Signing we got the following WOB: I've been giving this some thought and I've come up with a few things Brandon might be referring to: 1.) The Ghastly Gondola story from the broadsheet in Bands of Mourning; We see Nazh using a "gun" that appears to fire a Threnody Shade. This to me indicates that similar to a Spren a Shade can be captured and used to power a Fabrial. 2.) In Secret History Nazh says to Kelsier that becoming a Cognitive Shadow is a deeply personal choice and that there are procedures that need to be followed. In Shadows For Silence in the Forests of Hell we see that being withered by a shade to death will turn you into a Shade but I would guess that following the precepts that Nazh alludes to would allow you to become a shade and possibly retain your mind, this would explain the IRE's worry about them as they are clearly very dangerous and if you applied sapience it would likely only make them more dangerous. Alternately the shades could be more like the Unmade where many are mindless but some (The Deepest Ones perhaps?) can think. 3.) The last thing I came up with is the obvious question about Homeland and the Evil. This actually seems the least likely though as it definitely does not fall into the category of "No one has asked me about the thing".
  18. I was thinking, would it be possible for a nicrosil metalmind be keyed to an allomantic ability or a certain surge and then just be refilled with investure after it runs out? Would it have to be filled by a coinshot or a rioter in order to use that ability? or could it be keyed to that ability and then just be refilled by a nicrosil ferring?
  19. So the singers are banging away trying to uncover something beneath the palace at Kholinar.: “Curious, human?” Moash jumped, startled to find a figure hovering down through the broken ceiling, swathed in black. Lady Leshwi still visited Moash, the man who had killed her. She was important among the singers, but not in a highprince sort of way. More like a field captain. “I guess I am curious, Ancient Singer,” Moash said. “Is there a reason you’re ripping apart this section of the palace? More than just to clear away the rubble?” “Yes. But you do not yet need to know why.” Excerpt From Oathbringer Brandon Sanderson https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/oathbringer/id1198279804?mt=11 This material may be protected by copyright. I didn’t Give it much thought at first . Then I started wondering what could they possibly want . Seems some speculation is in order. So , we have not seen any Singer cities! We know they were the Original inhabitants. Of Roshar . What if there is an ancient Singer city beneath Kholinar? What goodies would u expect to find? Fabrials ? Gems containing spren trapped for changes in highstorm? Ancient weapons cache? Or perhaps a City built like Urithiru but made for Singers! I’d like to hear your thoughts ?
  20. Hemalurgy. It's a totally decentralized magic system. You can use it anywhere in the cosmere, as long as you know how. It doesn't require special spiritual genetics, a splinter-bond, or any kind of magical initiation. Just common things, like metal and savagery. It's even theoretically possible that, with a little hint from a worldhopper, a civilization could discover hemalurgy, study it in depth, and implement it on a huge scale, without ever realizing that they're harnessing the power of a Shard on a distant planet that they've never heard of. So here's my question. Are there other magic systems like that? And, if so, have we seen them? Is it possible that we've witnessed the magic of an unknown shard, and mistaken it for the work of a local shard, or a basic law of the cosmere? (Wouldn't hemalurgy look like that, if you used it without knowing of Ruin?) A few months ago I posted my theory about the remaining unnamed Shards of Adonalsium. Based on the logic of that theory, I proposed the existence of a shard called Artifice. Artifice is a counterpart to Cultivation, sharing her interest in progress and creation, but approaching it through more direct mechanical means. Artifice is a creator who makes no effort to disguise creation as evolution. Artifice is a god of creativity, ingenuity, and invention. (Ingenuity, of course, is a not-quite-canon Shard, much discussed on a recent Shardcast. It sounds like Ingenuity is a creativity-oriented Shard that has a definite place in the cosmere, but Brandon can't canonize it because he isn't happy with the name. Well, Brandon, how about Artifice? That's a cool name.) I theorized that Artifice's magic system would be a crafting system. That reminded me of this WoB: Based on the tone of that conversation, I'm guessing the thing that picks Elantrians isn't really a fabrial. I'm inclined to think it's an Avatar, or something like that. But that's not important. Look at the part that I underlined. So fabrials are a cosmere-wide phenomenon, with big implications for the later cosmere. (not unlike hemalurgy.) And clearly the standard spren-and-gemstone device that we've seen on Roshar is not the only kind of device that you could call a fabrial. Brandon has also confirmed that the construction of fabrials is a magic system in its own right, distinct from the others on Roshar: But we have little or no reason to believe that fabrial science is connected to any of the local shards. It may not even be native to Roshar. Combine this with its apparent universality, and I propose that the construction of fabrials is actually a non-localized magic system, like hemalurgy, connected to a currently unrevealed shard. And I think this points to the existence of a creative, mechanically-oriented shard, like my theoretical Artifice/Ingenuity. This fabrial magic system would manifest differently on different Shardworlds, using local Foci and interacting with local manifestations of investiture (magic systems). On Roshar, fabrials use spren, just like surgebinding does. On Scadrial it would work differently. I believe the many magical devices we saw in Bands of Mourning are the Scadrian manifestation of the fabrial system. The undeniable parallel is that both southern Scadrian and Rosharan artifabrians can create a mechanical device which mimics the abilities of a local magic-user. The south Scadrian airship lowers its mass, like a feruchemist. Their allomantic grenades can use allomancy, just like humans do. And on Roshar, we see fabrials that can heal like an Edgedancer, soulcast like a Lightweaver, and teleport like an Elsecaller. The construction of these Scadrian fabrials could be seen as very similar to the Rosharan variant. The power source is a reservoir of raw investiture fuel: a stormlight-infused gemstone, or an ettmetal battery. The other key component, which I'll call the Effect Generator, is another piece of investiture, comparable to innate investiture in humans, which determines the magical effect. In Rosharan fabrials the Effect Generator is a spren. In Scadrian ones it is most likely either a nicrosilmind or a hemalurgic spike, or something similar produced by the mysterious Excisor device. The third component, which connects the Effect Generator to the power source, is a metal apparatus, which I'm sure we'll find hidden inside most south Scadrian devices. This seems to reflect a basic rule of this magic system, or perhaps of the cosmere in general: an inanimate object can only use magic if it's metallic. Further speculations: Thoughts?
  21. I first posted this what if in another group , a less enlightened group. The discussion was interesting so I thought I would ask you guys and see what you guys thought! Dalinar has trapped Nergaul inside the Kings Drop. A perfect ruby! So what’s the plan now ! Do they put it in a vault in Urithiru and say that’s it? What if Navani got ahold of the Kong’s Drop? What could she do with it . Could she make a Fabrial with it that When turned on sent men on the battlefield into a bezerker frenzy ? Seems logical, but would Dalinar , ever want to use something like that? Probably not , why would Dalinar want to Riot everyone on a battlefield ? The answer is he wouldn’t .... But , then I remembered Navani pain fabrial !!! And, how when Navani was in trouble she reversed the fabrial that was designed to remove pain and made it inflict pain instead!!’ The possibilities made my eyes pop. If she made Nergaul a giant Rioting Fabrial could she then reverse it and Create a Gigantic Soother . That is Something I could see Dalinar putting To Devestating effect. Seeing as they are fighting the Fused, who simply get another Body When killed , the obvious solution is to deny them bodies to possess. And this is a very good tool to use against the passion inspired Singers! thoughts
  22. So, I've got a question, or an idea. Or both. So, you know fabrials, right? The SA contraptions that trap spren inside gems to do things? Well, you may or may not know that they also require metal to function properly. Every fabrial we've seen onscreen has not been without a metal casing, and so it can be assumed fabrials require metal, along with the following evidence: 1. Shallan only realizes the Oathgate is a fabrial from the metal: 2. Also, this quote from Navani's notebook: So, we've cemented you need metal for fabrials to work. So that brings up a question for me: What happens if you use Invested metal? Now, I like fabrials, but I'm far from being an expert, so I'm turning to you guys. I doubt a piece of iron feruchemically charged would have the same effect as a normal piece of iron, as we can see that the feruchemy actually changes the structure of the metal, allowing for its allomantic use to be different. The fact that an Invested and non-Invested metal makes a difference in Allomancy makes me believe it would create another difference in Fabrials. Maybe, since metalminds for Allomancy causes the feruchemical effect, perhaps using a metalmind for a fabrial would produce similar feruchemical effect. Again, this question also regards metals which have been charged with hemalurgy, as they would be Invested, and it makes me think what a fabrial with a hemalurgically charged base would be like. Also, although it would be inconvenient, it's also worth thinking of awakened metals. Used as a base for a fabrial, would the metal produce a different effect? Would the awakening of the metal affect the spren inside? All questions to ponder. So what you guys think? Is there any way some obscure form of fabrial theory can solve this conundrum?
  23. The drawing of flying ships in Navani's notebook got me thinking about flying ships on Roshar. Then I got thinking about perfect gemstones and their ability to hold stormlight and not let it leak. Add a few windrunners, a soulcaster, earth engineering, and an overactive imagination, let it stew for a few days and out came this idea: Aluminum plated shardships. Using the czochralski process, or crystal pulling(wikipedia link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czochralski_process) Rosharians could produce large sapphires. facet those gems and turn them into a lifting fabrial. place those gems into a harness inside an aluminum hulled vessel and you have a Fused proof, flying ship that can be used for trade, troop transport, and other missions. Keep a stock of perfect gems on had to fuel the ship and you no longer have to rely on a windrunner or oathgate to get you around the planet in a hurry. Also, you could mount artillery to it and use it to take out ground forces or go toe to toe with the flying Fused. Any thoughts?
  24. Theory: Ancient fabrials operate with the help of a willing, sentient spren. "Modern fabrials" are Stormlight-powered mechanisms that make use of a spren trapped in a gemstone. All of the details aren't entirely clear. We know the type of gem and spen matter. Some of them, at least, require you to press metal against the gem. Mysterious as it may be to us, the scholars of Roshar have it pretty well figured out. And yet they are totally stumped by so-called "ancient fabrials". We've seen several ancient devices with all kinds of specific and powerful uses. Devices that use Stormlight like a fabrial... And yet they don't require a trapped spren, and the means to create more of them are unknown. Soulcasters. Shardplate. Oathgates. So what's the deal? I think that they DO use spren. Just in a very different way. I don't think I've seen anybody talking about this. Honestly, I didn't give it much attention myself until I was recently reminded about something I had noticed in Kaza's interlude when Brandon read it earlier this year. If you look closely, a spren seems to be present when she uses her Soulcaster. When we put this together with everything else we saw in Oathbringer... I think the solution of how ancient fabrials becomes clear. I'm going to go through all of the so-called ancient fabrials that we know of and see what observations we can make. Soulcasters Again, the big revelation here is from Kaza's interlude: See that mention of "another will reinforcing her own"? I think it's a spren. Notably, the spren is "attracted by her request for aid". Recall that trapping spren for modern fabrials requires you to attract the spren: Interesting that this spren is also "attracted". But it isn't a slave. It came willingly, to help. It's unclear whether this particular spren is "attached" to Kaza's soulcaster, or whether it was simply a spren that happened to be nearby. You could interpret this different ways. Did a particular spren, or a particular group of spren, agree to be bound to the soulcaster? Or to come at the call of a Soulcaster? Perhaps it's not an agreement binding them at all, but rather their nature. They hear a Soulcaster's "request for aid" and just naturally want to join in. What kind of spren could this be? I'm skeptical that it's a Knight Spren, though that's a possibility. I'm more inclined to think that it is some spren related Soulcasting OR some spren related to the essence of smoke (which Kaza's device is attuned to). And on that note, it's also interesting that we see there are different "levels" of Soulcasters--some being more limited than others. This theory perfectly explains why in one of two ways. (1) Perhaps the more powerful Soulcasters are linked to multiple spren, each granting different types of Soulcasting. (2) Or perhaps the more powerful Soulcasters are linked to more powerful spren--one that is able to do more than the spren of lesser Soulcasters. Oathgates Okay, that's a nice theory for Soulcasters, but is there anything to back this up? Let me introduce you to these guys. We now know that the Oathgates each make use of two strange and powerful spren. Exactly what they do is hard to say, but they are obviously part of the device's functionality. The fact that the device is a fabrial is also obvious--Shallan makes the observation when they first discovered the Oathgate in Narak. You charge it with Stormlight, point it the way you want to go, and activate it. The Surgebinder's own spren, of course, isn't what makes the thing work. It's more of a key perhaps? In any case, another example of an ancient fabrial that uses a spren to work. It's notable that (in this case) the spren seem to have made an agreement to guard/operate the thing. They follow specific rules and don't seem to leave their location in Shadesmar. Urithiru Our characters have begun to speculate that Urithiru itself is one GIANT fabrial. We know so little about it, so there's not much to say here... We DO know that it is mostly (but not entirely) non-functional. We can only speculate as to what it should be doing, but records left by former Radiants confirm the notion that it used to be MORE somehow. Plus there are the oddities like the massive gemstone pillar that won't be infused, the strata on the walls... It isn't fully broken of course. One record notes that the artificial air pressure hasn't failed, even if the "climate control" hasn't, and this apparently still true. What do we know about how Urithiru operated? About why it stopped working? One answer: the Sibling. A spren heavily connected to the tower city. A spren which many are speculating "IS" the city. It will be interesting to see what Jasnah finds when she investigates the city in Shadesmar... An oddity?.... Or an ancient (very powerful) fabrial, making use of an ancient (very powerful) spren? Shardplate I'm proposing that Shardplate is actually an ancient fabrial. The resemblance to other ancient fabrials is notable. It's an ancient, powerful device that is powered by Stormlight, it doesn't use a trapped spren, and it seems to make use of the Surges. The popular theory on Shardplate of course is that they are the "cousin-spren" of the Surgebinder's Nahel bond spren. This theory doesn't negate that possibility. In fact, it may fill in the gaps of why Shardplate is so different from Shardblades. Why does Shardplate behave so differently in modern times? Great question... For that, I'd have to turn attention back to Urithiru. We have that city as an example for what happens when an ancient fabrial has stopped working at full functionality. Perhaps the same is happening with Shardplate? Unfortunately our brief visions of "properly working" Shardplate are limited in what they reveal. How might it work? Presumably it's an actual, physical device of some kind (not, I would propose, the "dead bodies" of lesser spren) that happens to be tied to one or more spren. Perhaps it's tied to the cousin spren. Perhaps some other spren. Perhaps multiple. Perhaps one. It's hard to say. We haven't seen into Shadesmar in the presence of Shardplate, yet, so we don't know if this/those spren are present with the Plate. But then if the Plate is "asleep" like Urithiru and the Sibling it's hard to guess what we would expect to see. Conclusion I feel like I need a conclusion... I don't have proof for this theory, but the evidence is (I think) pretty strong and consistent. I left out Regrowth fabrials simply because we know almost nothing about them besides the fact that they exist. The inclusion of Shardplate is the most questionable piece, but I think it fits. As an aside, I suppose it's worth mentioning Jah Keved's half-shards. In Oathbringer Chapter 100, Taravangian suggests that the half-shards make use of "true spren". This is a controversial statement, but however you interpret his words, it suggests that these modern fabrials are more powerful because they make use of more powerful spren. That is, I think, in line what the concepts here. It suggests perhaps that the difference between a half-shard and Shardplate is a sentient spren which cooperates rather than a spren which is enslaved. There are a LOT of follow-up questions to be asked... How are they made? What's the nature of the "bond" (if one exists) between fabrial and spren? Is it the same for all or can it be different? What types of spren are used? I'll leave those conversations to the rest of you.
  25. Fabrials Era 1 Fabrials- Fabrials of the Knights Radiant. These fabrials probably use sentient spren that agree to being connected to fabrials and are fabrials that store stormlight keyed to one of the surges. Era 2 Fabrials- Fabrials of current day Roshar. They use nonsentient spren. Types Altering Fabrials Augmenters- These fabrials are crafted to enhance something. They can create heat, pain, or even a calm wind, for instance. They are powered—like all fabrials—by Stormlight. They seem to work best with forces, emotions, or sensations. I am guessing that any one of the ten Polestones will work. Diminishers- These fabrials do the opposite of what augmenters do, and generally seem to fall under the same restrictions as their cousins. Pairing Fabrials Conjoiners- By infusing a ruby and using methodology that has not been revealed to me (though I have my suspicions), you can create a conjoined pair of gemstones. The process requires splitting the original ruby. The two halves will then create parallel reactions across a distance. Spanreeds are one of the most common forms of this type of fabrial. Conservation of force is maintained; for instance, if one is attached to a heavy stone, you will need the same strength to lift the conjoined fabrial that you would need to lift the stone itself. There appears to be some sort of process used during the creation of the fabrial that influences how far apart the two halves can go and still produce an effect. Reversers- Using an amethyst instead of a ruby also creates conjoined halves of a gemstone, but these two work in creating opposite reactions. Raise one, and the other will be pressed downward, for instance. These fabrials have only just been discovered, and already the possibilities for exploitation are being conjectured. There appear to be some unexpected limitations to this form of fabrial, though I have not been able to discover what they are. Warning Fabrials- Using an amethyst instead of a ruby also creates conjoined halves of a gemstone, but these two work in creating opposite reactions. Raise one, and the other will be pressed downward, for instance. These fabrials have only just been discovered, and already the possibilities for exploitation are being conjectured. There appear to be some unexpected limitations to this form of fabrial, though I have not been able to discover what they are. Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (pp. 1238-1239). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. There are 2 more pairings of Fabrials that we don't know about. The Technological Plateu- Rosharan artifabrians have 5 pairings of types of fabrials, ten gemstones to manipulate the effects, and three type of different ways to harness the power of spren and the surges. Once they figure out how to create Era one Fabrials, they will be able to create many types of fabrials, but eventually the fabrials will eventually get too big for there the intended use. Rosharans can counteract this by controlling the size of spren, which we know can be gone from one of the interludes in WoR, to make them fit tinier gems. But they don't have the tools to cut gems that small and wire the gems and mechanisms together to create a fabrial. In the future, once they get past this problem what kind a fabrials do you think will be created, and how will it affect the many Rosharans? Fabrial Cities I think Fabrial Cities will become popular. I don't think we will have Urithiru cites due to lack of Super spren who would agree to this. Instead I think it will several to very many smaller fabrials will be interconnected to create one city fabrial. To do this, they will probably use a lot logic spren to handle all of the connections, stormlight infusion, and information exchanged. This also lets spren-hacking become a thing. Holograms and the Internet I think that these fabrials will probably use rubies and creativity and logic spren to provide near instant transfer of information. I don't now how they will keep information, but that might be able to work with one of the unknown pairing. For holograms I think it will be a mixed with creativityspren and maybe a hypothetical pairing to the warning fabrials, this could also work for screens for boards and communication devices.