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Found 72 results

  1. There's a theory that I dismissed as silly in the past. Hemalurgy is not a planet-bound magic system. You can spike anyone anywhere, as long as you know what you're doing. Furthermore, allomancy doesn't use gems on Roshar, and Awakening still requires Breath. Naturally, a hemalurgic spike would have to be made of metal. That's how the magic works. ... or is it? I find myself wondering now whether it would be possible (I don't think it would be a requirement) to use Rosharan gemstones as hemalurgic spikes. A polestone is able to adopt a charge of Investiture - they can be charged by Stormlight and Taldain's sunlight, potentially the Dor as well. It doesn't seem like much of a stretch to use a polestone as a hemalurgic spike. To steal what, I have no idea. EDIT: I forgot to mention organic spikes. Previously living matter - bones, wood, cloth - can be Invested using Breath. Can you use a bone as a spike? In this case I think it would require a hack of the magic system, e.g. you would need to use an Awakened bone, or at least one containing Breath, as I don't think ordinary non-metallic objects are capable of spontaneously adopting a charge of Investiture.
  2. I believe that as we progress into the future of the Cosmere, Scadrian usage of magic will become more and more tied to mechanical magics like medallions and ettmetal machines. From what glimpses we've seen of the future, it appears that Scadrians will eventually merge the Metallic Arts with their electronics, and I will go so far as to suggest that in Era 4 that will be the only form in which we'll see Allomancy being used. Being genetic, Allomancy and Feruchemy become weaker over time. This is not as pronounced in Feruchemy due to the nature of the magic system (you take as much as you give), but it's quite noticeable in Allomancy. Elend is noted by Vin to be incredibly powerful, due to his undiluted Allomancy; any Allomancer from Era 1 would be similarly strong in comparison if brought to Era 2. Unless the magic is fundamentally changed or the Shard starts providing lerasium every now and then to refresh the sDNA pool, Allomancy will wilt into parlor tricks given enough time. Enter mechanical magic. The specifics of the allomantic machines are not yet clear, but I'd wager you can make a machine that is more powerful than a human - SoScad airships come to mind. I suspect that primer cube technology can also be extrapolated to provide a means for amplifying one's own powers, allowing the weaker Allomancers of the space age to use their powers productively. These are my predictions: In Era 4, Allomancers as we know them now will be legends Mistings will still exist, but they will not be able to do much without the equivalent of allomantic fabrials We will see more technology that manipulates Investiture Any thoughts or criticisms?
  3. First off, this does have some spoilers for Mistborn and some SA, so if I need to put them in spoiler tags, let me know. Alright, here goes. My thoughts have to with the nature of the two planets. In another thread someone suggested that some cataclysm caused one planet to split into the two we get now, but I figured that it was unlikely, as doing so would not leave the civilizations intact. In the comment I posted, however, I said maybe the splintering of virtuosity had to do with it. Let me explain how I think this would come about. First, why would the planet be split? I propose that another force, perhaps whatever caused the shades on Threnody or an avatar of Odium (since we know he is trying to splinter all the shards) arrived at the planet. This force caused chaos and harm on the planet, focused around one area, and never reaching more than halfway across the planet, Over time,* it became clear that virtuosity could not defeat this force, so she decides to stop its growth, similar to what we find out Leras does to Ati. *Edit: the force weakened Virtuosity during this time, which is what made it clear that she could not defeat it. Now we need to know how this happens. I believe that Virtuosity decided to isolate the force, and the method she chose to use was to split the planet. The issue with this is how violent this action would be. As you may know, a habitable planet probably behaves like earth, and earth has a molten core. To split the planet, she would have to find a way to stop the core from spilling everywhere. In addition, the gravitational pull of the planet would mean that as it split, insane levels of seismic activity would occur as the two halves would basically try to rip themselves apart. This means that an awesome amount of energy, in this case investiture, is required. This is where we get to the splintering. We can guess how much energy is needed based on Rashek and Vin's attempts to modify Scadrial. Both times they got access to the body of Preservation's power, but they were only able to make relatively small changes, in a matter of a few seconds. To split the planet, Virtuosity would extend herself so far that she is splintered. The split of the planet has splintered Virtuosity, and so the force, while trapped on the one half that becomes Painter's world, is free to do what it wants there. Now, at this point in time, the two halves still use the magic system in the same way, but corruption is seeping in. Over time, the spirits become tained and trapped on Painter's world, but the ones on Yumi's world either remain the same or are ones freed by a combination of painting and rock stacking. By the time of SP3, the power has such a hold on the magic, that it is starting to infringe on Yumi'd world via the two halves' connection. This is what leads the spirits to call out for Yumi's help. (the halves' connection is what enables the body swap.) Here is the source: @teknopathetic 7th reply There you go, as I get feedback I'll edit this, so please tell me what you think.
  4. I may be pointing out the obvious here, but this is something I see brought up every now and then and wanted to discuss. There is a WoB that confirms that it is possible to use Feruchemy to support Allomancy; like Compounding, but in the opposite direction. I believe we have seen a form of this in the books already. When Wax pushes with increased weight, his metalminds are drained, consuming his Feruchemical reserves to power his Allomancy. When he drains the metalminds to become extremely heavy and then pushes, the reserves are gone in an instant, like burning duralumin on his metalminds. Why should that happen? An ironmind simply makes you heavier, which should make your steelpushes stronger as a side effect, but when Wax does that, it drains the metalminds. To me, this is an indication that what is actually happening is that Wax is converting between forms of Investiture, taking power from his metalminds and plugging it into his Allomancy, just like a Compounder takes power from their Allomancy and plugs it into their metalminds. I wonder what other Twinborn combinations could do something like this. F-Duralumin could boost emotional Allomancy, and maybe F-Chromium could enhance internal temporal metals by accessing more Fortune.
  5. The title is actually a red herring, as I hope the tags imply. The discussion I want to start is regarding a question that I've wanted to ask Brandon for a while, but I don't think I'll ever get the opportunity - so let's discuss for ourselves, yes? What exactly determines who gets which magic system? We know that being born in a given territory gives you a Connection to the symbols of that territory, but what classifies as a territory? Is it geographical or geopolitical? Is an Elantrian an inhabitant of the kingdom of Arelon or an inhabitant of the surroundings of Elantris? If the borders between nations were to change - that is, if an empire were to annex a kingdom, or a kingdom were to be split into multiple nations, would the magic be affected in some way? If the Fjordell Empire annexed Arelon, would AonDor still work? And if it did, would it work in the same way? My gut instinct is yes to both of those questions, because we know that both the Fjordell and Rose empires seem to have multiple magic systems within them, but I'm not certain. The Dor exists in the Cognitive Realm, so it would make sense for it to reflect perceived distinctions between locations rather than spatial organization.
  6. I was reading a few topics on this forum and came across this thread from 2020. Not wanting to raise it back from the dead, I am making a new thread to continue the discussion with my own suggestion regarding why the number of Elantrians is limited. There is one Elantrian for each Aon, like happens with Seons. There is a limited number of Aons, and so with one Elantrian representing each Aon, the number of Elantrians is also limited. I have no idea how Elantrians are chosen, but we know from WOB that it's not completely random. I initially thought that it might even be the Aon in their name, but a quick search through the Coppermind yields four different Elantrians named after Aon Rii. Speaking of which, it's been asked, and apparently it has more to do with Connection.
  7. Okay so I’ve been really digging into the whole creation of Nightblood. Could a splinter of Ambition be involved someone how? Thus amplifying it’s “destroy evil” intent? I also believe the theories that this was apart of Ruins involvement as well.
  8. Well, one of them anyway. I doubt we'll make it through the finale of the first Stormlight cycle without big character moments going off all over the place, but I think Lift's going to be especially significant. My reasoning is as follows: First and foremost, for me, is the fact that she's the only character who has a boon from Cultivation that we haven't yet seen come to a climax. We've seen the end result of her meddling with Dalinar in Oathbringer with him resisting Odium, and her plans for Taravangian when he killed Rayse and took up Odium in Rhythm of War, so it makes sense to me that we'll get a hat trick and see the big payoff of what she's done with Lift in this next book. Secondly, Szeth is going to be the big viewpoint/flashback character for book 5, and him and lift already have the foundation for a rapport on account of working together at the Battle of Thaylen Field. Szeth's fought Kal and talked with Navani, sure, but the only other radiant I can think of who he's got a stronger connection to than Lift is Dalinar, because he pledged himself specifically to his service. Thirdly, Lift currently has one of the more diverse powersets on Roshar. She's an Edgedancer. She's got a boon and a curse from the Old Magic. And as of RoW, she's bonded a chicken aviar. That last one might be doubly significant, since Brandon's said that a seon bond on Roshar would act like a Nahel bond, just not grant the same powers. This raises the possibility that not only will she get the abilities conferred by that species of aviar, but also more surgebinding or surgebinding-like abilities.
  9. I have a few thoughts on Dawnshards. I am relatively sure that there are four of them, I may have misinterpreted something, but I think there are four. In their name, They are called shards. This seems significant to me, and seems to imply that they were once together and part of a whole(or all of a whole). We also know that Hoid held a Dawnshard to help shatter Adonalsium. What if Hoid's end goal is to reunite all of the Dawnshards and recreate whatever they originally were?
  10. It's something of a consensus in the community that, for whatever reason, Hoid has been traveling to various worlds and acquiring their magics for some purpose, maybe for amassing power, or maybe as a hobby. Whenever he lands on a planet, he tries to get that magic system. However, I don't think he's simply "collecting" these magics. I've been thinking about Investiture and how it relates to rhythm and color, and I think I have a hunch on why Hoid has been acquiring the Invested Arts we've seen him collect, and it's for a very specific reason: converting Investiture between forms and manipulating raw Investiture. We have seen Hoid acquire very specific magic systems. He has: Failed to become an Elantrian Stolen the Moon Scepter Become an Allomancer Become an Awakener Become a Surgebinder Selish magics require their user to induce a specific waveform into the Dor to create a given effect. As an Elantrian, he would be able to manipulate these waveforms and study how they affect the Dor itself. The Moon Scepter is the next best thing, as it helps to convert between the local magic systems. Allomancers give off distinct Rhythms when they burn metals and have the ability to perceive the Rhythms produced by other Invested individuals. Awakeners of the second Heightening have perfect pitch. This helps Hoid distinguish minute details of sound. Also, though it only reaches perfection at the third Heightening, he also has enhanced color perception. Surgebinders utilize Rosharan Lights, which oscillate with light and sound in ways that reflect the nature of the Investiture that they contain. Putting this all together: Hoid has the understanding of the waveforms that power Investiture from the Moon Scepter, the ability to perceive those waveforms via Bronze, the auditory acuity to distinguish them from Breath, and an abundant source of malleable Investiture that responds to sound in the form of Stormlight. All he needs now is a musical instrument.
  11. This is a sequence of thought processes that built on one another and let to some slightly crazy conclusions. I was initially thinking of Breath-based fabrials. Theoretically, it should be possible to get any kind of gaseous Investiture into a polestone (or any kind of Investiture at all), so logically if you could get Breath into a polestone and fit a metal cage around it, you could use that to power a fabrial. The question is: how do you put the Breath in there? It’s easy enough to put Stormlight into a gemstone, as you can simply leave it out during a highstorm. That wouldn’t work for Breath. Maybe you could have an Awakener Breathe into the stone, but unless they are of a very high Heightening, that is unlikely to be possible. But what about tuning forks? You can use a specially constructed tuning fork to take Light out of a polestone and move it to another. The process is simple: hit the fork to make it vibrate, then touch the vibrating fork to an infused gemstone. This produces a flow of Light that you can then push into another gemstone by touching it with the fork. Could you do that with Breath? Could it be possible to pull Breath out of an object by creating a tuning fork that vibrates to Endowment’s Tone and using it to draw Breath out of, say, a shirt and then into a gemstone? And what does this have to do with aluminum? Well, consider that to move Investiture around you use vibration. Vibrate an object at the right frequency, and you can pull Investiture into it, or through it. The question now is: could you vibrate an object at a frequency that would push Investiture out? Yes. We see in Rhythm of War that if you expose a gem bearing Voidlight to Odium’s anti-Tone, the Voidlight is pushed out of it. Most objects don’t particularly care about what Tone you input into them. Infuse a stone with Adhesion and it will stick to a wall. Command a wall to turn into smoke and it will comply. Convince a mural that it was actually painted on the lower floor and it will appear there. What if you had a material that did care about frequency it vibrates at? A material that responds to a Tone with its anti-Tone, cancelling it out? This is what I think aluminum is actually doing, and also the effect it provides in Allomancy. When you try to Invest aluminum, it resonates with an incompatible Tone, shoving the Investiture out of itself. When you burn aluminum, you are not Investing it, but instead replicating its properties, creating a cacophony of anti-Tones that cleanses all kinetic Investiture in your body. This would also explain why Invested things resist external Investiture. When an object isn’t Invested, it’s not vibrating to any particular Shard’s Tone. However, when it is Invested, it vibrates with a Rhythm that combines the Identity of whoever Invested it and the pure Tone of the Shard to whom that Investiture belongs, and you need to either match that Rhythm or just brute force your way into the object with a lot of Investiture - which is confirmed by WoB to be possible, though very difficult, to do to aluminum.
  12. So, like the tile says, at various times in SA, I'm pretty sure that Odium's forces are able to use the corrupted rhythms in a manner that is similar to emotional allomancy. They can't completely reprogram the way someone thinks, but they seem to be able to give a nudge in the desired direction. In particular, I think we see Ulim, Venli, and possibly a couple of stormspren use rhythms/vibration to manipulate others' emotions. I started down this line of thinking when I recently reread this Gavilar line from the OB prologue (Eshonai's POV): Given the juxtaposition of the words radiant and vibrant, and all of the stuff we learn about rhythms (i.e. vibrations) in RoW, I started to wonder if maybe the singers had at one point used vibrations in some kind of magical way. At the outset, I'll concede that the simplest explanation for Gavilar's saying that the singers are not longe "vibrant" is that he's just talking about the ones in slaveform. But indulge me. Looking back through WoR, OB, and RoW, I found a number of times where it seems pretty clear that either Ulim or Venli (or Ulim through Venli) use rhythms/vibrations to manipulate the emotions of others. Here's a rundown in chronological order. RoW Chapter 73 That's three times in relatively short order where we see this happen. Her mind growing fuzzy and circling back when she expresses concern about how manipulative Ulim is. Then Ulim's mocking laughter makes her gemheart vibrate. Note how Venli doesn't say that she "attuned" Agony, rather she felt herself attune it, almost like it wasn't her choice, but happened as a result of the ridiculing laughter. And lastly, she again starts to think that something is fishy with Ulim and he immediately starts with the obsequious puffery, accompanied by a rhythm, to cut off that line of thinking. RoW Chapter 77 Here we see Ulim vibrate energy through Venli while again peddling lies to get Venli on board with the plan to assassinate Gavilar. WoR Interlude 11 Here, just before the first highlighted passage, Eshonai is really angry about Venli not telling her that she knew stormform would change her. She's digging on on trying to figure out how Venli found out about stormform. She does not seem inclined to just let this go. But then Venli meets Eshonai's eyes, and hums to confidence while again repeating that they have to take this step, and Eshonai is just like, okay! and then proceeds to immediately do an endrun around the five and orders her stormform officers to round up any dissenters to be killed. In the second highlighted passage, Eshonai finally starts to have some doubts about what she's doing, and it seems like the stormform spren in her gemheart, mindless though it might be, senses her wavering and reacts, ramping up the new corrupted rhythms to push back. WoR Interlude 13 I'm not entirely sure what happens in the first part of this scene where Venli just smiles and goes along with Eshonai's position that they should wait. I imagine Ulim is saying something to her in her mind. Maybe pointing out that Eshonai is now the one manipulating her? Maybe congratulating Venli on making Eshonai think that the idea to wait was her own? I'm not sure, but there's something weird there. And then we get another instance of Eshonai poking into how Venli knows the things she knows and then something deep inside nudges her to move on. OB Interlude 3 I'm not entirely sure that in these two instances Demid is doing something similar to the other examples above. But Venli does seem rather agitated both times, yet quickly capitulates. I'll note that it's at the end of this Interlude when Timbre starts following Venli. Shortly thereafter she starts to be able to hear the old rhythms again, and as far as I can tell doesn't fall victim to this kind of emotional manipulation ever again. Bonus theory: all of this got me thinking that perhaps this is similar to what the ancient singers did, but not just with emotions. What if, rather than bonding with spren, the ancient singers were able to use the rhythms to communicate with the spren and ask them to manipulate the surges? The spren got some of those juicy thoughts and emotions they like so much through the rhythms, and got to manipulate things in the physical realm; the singers got to do cool magic that helped them out. Then the humans come along, all shiny and new, and the spren are like, whoa, now we can actually pass through into the physical realm more. And the singers are like WTF spren? ok, I guess we'll give this Odium guy a try.
  13. Spoilers for the Sixth of the Dusk sequel excerpt. Specifically, this: And this: And for some context, this: What in the world is this? He behaves like a Skybreaker, but he glows violet. The color of Willshapers and Voidlight. What is going on here? Does Skybreaker plate glow violet instead of gray or is this Radiant - assuming he is a Radiant - using Voidlight?
  14. So, in Endowment's letter to Hoid in Oathbringer she mentions that "If Rayse becomes an issue he will be dealt with." This implies she has something of a plan in case Odium comes to Nalthis to try and Splinter her, and I think I know what the plan is? I think Endowment was going to wield Nightblood and use it to help her Splinter Odium or just kill Rayse. We know from a wob that Endowment was "involved" in the creation of Nightblood somehow, which means that she saw something in what Vasher and Shashara were doing and helped them along. We've seen that Odium was scared of Nightblood and for good reason, given how RoW ended. Now, maybe a Shard can't wield Nightblood for complicated Realmatic reasons or something, but if that's the case then Endowment could've planned on having a champion use it. Thoughts? Disagreements? I wanna hear everyone else's opinions on this because I don't have irl friends who I can talk to about this
  15. This may have been discussed already, but I was thinking that some of Lift's anomalies could be explained if she was a cognitive shadow stapled to her body somewhat akin to a Returned (but without the divine breath). Specifically, it could explain: 1. Her strong connection to the cognitive realm (since she's a CS), though we haven't seen another CS with her exact properties. 2. How Cultivation granted her wish "to stay the same" since a CS can be considered a fossilized version of the living entity (per Vasher, at least). Her powerset also explains some things that would otherwise pose issues if she were a CS -- e.g., the constant need for investiture (she can produce it fairly easily, so she's not in danger of running out unless she starves to death -- which would also kill her anyhow). This theory could generate some narrative interest for her flashback chapters in the back half (if she dies as a child and is saved by Cultivation, for example). That's the theory in a nutshell. If anyone is aware of any outright deconfirmations via WoB or would like to offer comments/critiques/refutations, be my guest.
  16. Between these two quotes we can see that Smokers and Seekers should both be able to affect the rhythms of Roshar in the same way they're able to dampen/detect allomantic pulses. And in the first quote, Brandon explains that the rhythms are tied to the spiritual realm, not so much the cognitive. So what I'm thinking is, copper and bronze being treated as 'cognitive' metals is one of those "Scadrians don't have a complete understanding of the metallic arts, there's some errors in the provided information that will clear up as the timeline and in-universe research progress" (heavily paraphrased) things that Brandon's talked about before. I would almost suggest that the proper grouping for copper and bronze would be with gold and electrum, since all four seem to tie to the spiritual realm more directly than other metals, except that would throw the whole internal/external division of allomantic metals into question since all four are internal metals.
  17. theory

    EDIT: THIS HAS BEEN CONFIRMED! Read below the line for the initial theory (which is pretty much basically what Peter says, though I also speculate on what the true power might be). (0.) TL;DR I believe that the "atium" we know in Mistborn Era 1 is actually an alloy of Ruin's true godmetal and electrum, as it potentially provides an answer to multiple oddities with the metal (though this does raise several questions of its own). I further speculate that the abilities of Ruin's pure metal may relate to transcending the Realms, and could perhaps be used in some manner to allow properly transitioning (the former part with more evidence than the latter, which is entirely a guess on my part). (This theory has been proposed before, I'm aware, but I feel that the threads I have found on it don't really delve into all of the evidence for it, and in some cases predate certain things such as the Hemalurgic table and several WoBs that I believe provide further evidence. So I'm fine resurrecting the debate.) (Also, as always, this is probably kind of roughly-written because I wrote it in fits and starts over several days and was too lazy for more than a cursory proofread. So let me know if anything is inconsistent or confusing.) (1.) What's odd about atium? (2.) That raises some new questions... (3.) What does Ruin's pure metal do, then? (I.) References
  18. So we're shown in ROW that windrunner shardplate is formed from windspren, which are shown to be similar in many ways to honorspren. What would the plate-spren of other orders be? Edit: I was looking through the coppermind, and the elsecaller plate-spren are logicspren
  19. Just for fun, I gave some thought as to the hows and whys you'd go about making mechas with the different invested arts. Allomancy: Use Southern Scadrian mechanical allomancy to push and pull on the appropriate parts to move the mecha around. Additional coinshot weapons systems can also utilize mechanical steel burning, or even cadmium bubble grenades like Marasi used in BoM. Unfortunately, it would be hard to scale up very far unless Southern Scadrian technology can store wight from an inanimate object in an iron-mind (or perhaps reinforce the material strength of the mecha in some other way). Awakening: This might actually be the single most intuitive invested art for mecha to arise out of. Thanks to the Law of BioChromatic Parallelism, shaping a gigantic hunk of metal into a humanoid form would actually make it more effective than it would otherwise be (or at least less resource-intense to create). The major hurtle would just be getting enough breaths and finding the right command. AonDor: While it probably can't do everything, AonDor is one of the more versatile invested arts we've seen. Beyond just finding the right Aon and modifier combination to reinforce and animate the mecha, I also imagine you'd also need some sort of 'power core' to fuel the whole thing, possibly incorporating AonRao. One of the obvious downsides to something like this is that it wouldn't function very well outside Arelon's borders, if at all. Dakhor: Instead of an inorganic mecha like other arts, I actually imagine Dakhor making an (at least partially) organic, 'living' mecha from a heavily modified human. It feels like it'd fit Fjorden's general vibe, plus we've already seen Dakhor modify and reinforce skeletal structures before; this would just be taking that existing principle further. Bloodsealing: "Hey, what if we stuck a whole lot of skeletals together into one really big skeletal?" "Duuuuuuude, that would be rad!" - two bloodsealers after partaking of a particular Dzhamarian swamp plant. Surgebinding (and fabrials): With either a radiant or fabrial capable of using the surge of gravitation, you could lighten the mecha enough to get around most square-cube issues as long as you had enough stormlight. I can pretty easily imagine various fabrials being used to make all the parts move in a motion-capture-type way, especially now that Navani's figured out a trick for magnifying an applied force between two parts of a paired fabrial. I also think that, rather than going for a humanoid look, Rosharans would probably take inspiration from greatshells and make animalistic mecha. Rosharans also have the advantage of already having the basic idea of powered armor in widespread circulation, which lends itself well to making the mental leap of "what if we made shardplate but bigger?" Sand Mastery: Possibly the most 'low-tech' mecha type. Build a light frame, probably out of wood, that sand masters can then wrap their lines of sand around and through. Make sure the mecha caries plenty of water with it that the operator can use to rehydrate.
  20. While working on a previous post about the unseen winds that are referenced from time to time in the SA, my attention was also drawn to the extensive symbolic use of the sun. But I noticed that the sun symbolism didn't necessarily seem consistent. At various times, the sun seemed to be characterized or experienced differently by different characters. Sometimes, the same character is compared to, or experiences, the sun differently at different times. The most obvious example I can think of is Odium, who is sometimes associated with darkness, blocking out the sun, or with the idea of the sun setting, but at other times is actually likened to the sun, with descriptions of intense heat and brightness. (a thorough list of examples is included toward the bottom of the post) My initial take on this seeming inconsistency was that maybe Brandon's symbolic use of the sun/sunlight was just all over the place. But as I dug a little deeper, I hit upon a different, more subtle possible explanation; one that ties in with some of the other themes that crop up over and over. Specifically, I'm thinking here about the power of perception, the exercise of free choice, and the (in)ability to exert control over one's emotions. What I've found is that the ways that characters perceive/experience the sun changes depending on their behaviors, their emotions, and their environment. And I think this idea - that two different people (or a single person at different times) can see the same sun in different ways - also ties in with the idea that the conflict between Honor's and Odium's forces is in part a battle for the hearts of men. A struggle to see which side will have more hearts open to it. Wit even tells us this in RoW 99: But, I'm getting ahead of myself. Let me start with the excerpt that I think cuts to the heart (har har) of this matter, which is essentially that Odium can, at least for periods of time, possess humans if they open themselves up to it. And I don't just mean cause them to experience the Thril or the gluttony inspired by Ashertmarn. This is from OB 115, the scene where Odium takes control of Amaram's army: A couple of things to point out here. First, I don't know if others have caught this, but upon doing a close read of this sequence I realized that I had, for quite some time, mistakenly believed that it was the Thrill that bonded to the soldiers in Amaram's army. It's not. The Thrill is just there to get them in the right mindset. Those are Fused souls that possess Amaram's men. Explanation is below and spoilered for length. Second, and more interesting is the highlighted line, where Odium talks about the two requirements for him to take control of a human: the right mindset and the right environment. As I went through the various times when characters describe/experience the sun, it became clear that whether they saw it positively or negatively was based on their mindset and their environment at the time, essentially showing us when characters were most at risk of falling victim to Odium's influence. There are actually a couple of other places where this idea - of humans opening themselves up to Odium's influence - comes up. One is waayyyy back in WoK Chapter 45. Shallan is trying to figure out what the Voidbringers were, and gets answers from three different sources: Jasnah: Jasnah studied her with a curious expression. “Nobody knows for sure. Most scholars consider them, like Urithiru, mere myths, while theologians accept them as counterparts of the Almighty – monsters that dwelled in the hearts of men, much as the Almighty once lived there.” The folk tales that Jasnah had compiled: It seemed that everybody knew something about the Voidbringers. People in rural areas spoke of them as mysterious creatures that came out at night, stealing from the unlucky and punishing the foolish. Those Voidbringers seemed more mischievous than evil. But then there would be the odd story about a Voidbringer taking on the form of a wayward traveler who – after receiving kindness from a tallew farmer – would slaughter the entire family, drink their blood, then write voidish symbols across the walls in black ash. Most people in the cities, however, saw the Voidbringers as spirits who stalked at night, a kind of evil spren that invaded the hearts of men and made them do terrible things. When a good man grew angry, it was the work of a Voidbringer. And lastly, Kabsal: “Everything has its opposite, Shallan. The Almighty is a force for good. To balance his goodness, the cosmere needed the Voidbringers as his opposite.” “I don’t think you want to get into the deep theology of this. Suffice it to say that the Almighty’s pure goodness created the Voidbringers, but men may choose good without creating evil because as mortals they have a dual nature. Thus the only way for good to increase in the cosmere is for men to create it – in that way, good may come to outweigh evil.” One of the things we slowly realize over the first three books of the series is just how wrong most of the present-day Rosharan beliefs are about the Voidbringers, the Desolations, the Heralds, and the Knights Radiant. But I think Brandon may have pulled a fast one on us here and hidden something that is actually true - that humans really can be possessed by Team Odium if they open themselves up to it - in plain sight in a way where we're inclined to think it's ridiculous. Want another example? How about Jezrien (Ahu) talking to Dalinar in OB 88 about which one of the Unmade might have gotten to him: It's fairly clear that Odium's long game involved trying to subtly influence humanity and exploit what Kabsal calls their "dual nature," trying to push them in subtle ways (often though the Unmade) to make dishonorable choices. We're told as much in the blurbs authored by the Sleepless on that back covers of the books. From WoK: And then WoR back-cover blurb notes the dangerous duality experienced by Radiants: Dual Nature Here are some other textual references to dual natures - seeing the same thing in different ways depending on how you're approaching it. Tien in WoK 37: Bringing things back around the to sun references, here's Shallan in WoR 48, engaging in word play with her brothers: Let's stay with Shallan for another weather-related reference, this time from RoW 26: Here's young-Nohadon from the vision in WoK 60: And then let's jump to old-Nohadon and bring the sun back into it, from OB 103: I'm with you Dalinar. How, indeed, could the sun be pointing in those two different directions? Maybe because adopting a different mindset or being placed in a different environment literally changes not only the way you see the sun but also which Shard you're open to. I ... don't really know if this theory came together the way I thought it might. But I feel like there's something here. I'm interested as always to hear others thoughts. Textual Evidence If you're interested in a rundown of the changing characterizations of the sun, here's my list, broken down by character and the nature of the sun symbolism. I'm going to spoiler these for space. If you read nothing else, I recommend you read through the section discussing times when Odium is associated with the sun and referred to as the "god of gods." It seems to me like juicy stuff that may feature prominently when we get to Shinovar in book 5. Dalinar With Dalinar, the ratio tilts toward negative associations with the sun, which makes sense given all the years he spent beholden to the Thrill. Dalinar: sun = bad (there's a pretty consistent theme here tying a setting sun to Odium, the Thrill, and Desolations) Dalinar: sun = good Kaladin With Kaldin, who is so closely aligned with Honor, the sun is pretty much always viewed favorably as something that Kal needs and misses when he doesn't get enough. Kal: sun = good Kal: sun = bad (not too many of these, but they demonstrate the connection between mindset and characterization of the sun nicely) Odium As noted at the top of the post, Odium is a weird one because sometimes he's associated with the sun, while other times he's associated with darkness. Odum - sun (some of these don't mention the sun but are included becasue they refer to Odium as the "god of gods" which Szeth and others associate with the sun) Odium - darkness In addition to the specific examples below, I'd also say that most of the negative associations up in the Dalinar and Kaladin sections above also count as examples of Odium being portrayed as shadows/darkness/setting sun. Other Notable Sun symbolism Lastly, just wanted to note that I'm intentionally leaving out for now the exploding sun mural in Akinah, seen in Dawnshard. I'm also leaving out the "other light" that Dalinar says the sunlight is distracting him from in OB 122. I suspect those two are related in some way, and I may revise later to incorporate them, if I feel like I have anything coherent to say. Thanks for reading!
  21. The theory is pretty much in the title. Based on a number of different pieces of evidence, I think that Adonalisum may have created Roshar to serve as a laboratory for creation/experimentation. A place where he used his divine voice (we learn in RoW that Lights respond to tones/rhythms because they are reminiscent of the voices of gods) to command the fundamental forces of creation and existence. Below, I've pulled together a bunch of WoBs and quotes from the books below that serve as background and support, and then I try to pull it all together. BACKGROUND - WOBS The Rosharan System was created by Adonalsium for a specific purpose: And it wasn't just the overall system. The continent of Roshar was specifically grown by Adonalsium too: Non-sapient spren, the singers, and highstorms all predate the Shattering and were part of Adonalisum's intentional design. One key aspect of the design of Roshar is the rhythms, which pervade the cosmere but manifest in a specific way on Roshar: BACKGROUND - QUOTES FROM THE BOOKS Eshonai, in RoW 116, concludes that Roshar IS the rhtyhms: Next, we have Raboniel and Navani in RoW 76, discussing the relationship between Lights and sound: Later, while trying to create anti-Light, Navani muses further on the nature of sounds, lights, and divinity in the epigraphs for chapters 70, 71: So Lights (Investiture) can be manipulated via sound. You know what else is Investiture? Spren. Spren are sentient pieces of the same powers that are referred to as the Surges, the innate forces by which all life and reality are connected. Here's Shallan discussing spren with Jasnah in WoR 3: Here's Syl in WoR 9: Here's the Sibling in RoW 28: PUTTING IT ALL TOGETHER So if tones/rhythms can manipulate Investiture/spren/Surges and Roshar was crafted by Adonalsium in such a way that the rhythms manifest in a specific and unique way (Roshar IS the rhythms), it starts to look like Roshar was essentially some kind of laboratory/sound studio for Adonalsium. A place where he spoke as a divinity and literally command the fundamental forces/powers of creation and existence. Perhaps it even functioned as his broadcasting base, a place from which he issued commands out to the wider cosmere, exerting influence and shaping worlds. Going even a step further, who's to say it wasn't the exercise of these powers that led the 16 original Vessels to shatter Adonalsium? As a responsible divinity, it seems that pre-Shattering Adonalsium was careful to place limitations on the power to manipulate Surges. See, for example, this WoB: But post-Shattering, Roshar must have looked pretty attractive to the Shards as they looked around for a place to settle down. That's one of the things I really like about this theory. It fits nicely with the Shards that did make their way to Roshar post Shattering. Honor being all about promises (which Syl and the Sibling equate with fundamental forces/laws of nature), it makes sense that there would be a lot of Investiture assigned to that Shard on Roshar. I can also imagine Honor being particularly concerned with safeguarding a planet with such a unique ability to command fundamental forces. If Roshar was a laboratory for experimentation that would also fit with there being a good chunk of Investiture assigned to Cultivation, given that she's about being about creation and growth. And Odium, being associated with that jealous part of divinity that more than anything wants its commands to be obeyed, would be drawn there as well. Indeed, Rayse seemed to think that all of the Shards would eventually try to get in on that sweet Surgebinding action from Roshar, particularly now that the bounds Honor placed on the Surges have fallen away. This is from RoW 112: That's it. That's the theory. In my mind it makes sense. But I concede that in same places I may have too simply conflated Investiture, spren, and Surges. Could be a crazy display on the wall in which I make unsupported connections between things or assume causation where there isn't any. But I think there's something here. Anyway, thanks for reading if you made it this far. As always I'm interested to hear what others think. Edit: D’oh! Almost forgot my favorite part of the sound studio idea. Ba-Ado-Mishram as the mixing board.
  22. discuss

    (This post is with regards to The Stormlight Archives, but given the potential scope of the topic allowing for spoilers of other Cosmere works I've posted it here. I hope that is kosher with the moderation team.) In The Way of Kings, a letter from Wit to Frost is given in the epigraphs, drawing attention to the immense danger that Odium poses to the Cosmere at large. In it, Wit reveals that Odium led to the Splintering of two fellow Shards; Dominion and Devotion. It is clear that Wit fears the unravelling of the Oathpact, and the epigraphs in Oathbringer show that he has also written to various Shards in the hopes of gaining their support. Further, we learn in Rhythm of War that Odium's plan for Roshar is to train a civilisation to be perfectly adapted for warfare before marching them on the cosmere at large. Given that the epigraphs of four books in the series so far has been designated towards Wit consulting outside forces to assist in Roshar, and given that we are 4 books into a 10 book series where the main villain has declared their intention on attacking other worlds, I think it is a safe assumption to make that at some stage we will see an interaction in The Stormlight Archives between the main cast and other Shards, either A.) as Odium invades other worlds, or B.) as other Shards decide to take up Wit's call to action. This thread is to discuss the potential candidates and their likelihood to feature in The Stormlight Archives. Splintered Shards Of the sixteen Shards, there are four known to have been Splintered and rendered, for all intents and purposes, deceased: Honour, Devotion, Dominion and Ambition. Whilst splinters of these Shards are present in Stormlight, (the spren of Honour and the seons of Devotion,) these do not constitute full Shards and can be safely dismissed. There is a slight potential that Honour's Splintering was not as straight-forward as the destruction of these other Shards, as it is clear that the Shard put contingency plans in place before he deceased. So there is a very unlikely, but not zero percent, chance that Honour may reappear in the series at a later date. Rhythm of War Shards I am grouping these four together for simplicity; the four Shards that we were introduced to within Rhythm of War whose identities were previously unknown. Invention, Whimsy, Mercy and Valour. Harmony notes that he was unable to locate Invention following their initial contact, though whether this is due to Invention choosing to remain hidden or a practical reality of a Shard that is not bound to a singular planet travelling across the cosmere is unclear. It is my current interpretation that, as Shards are likely capable of communicating through the Spiritual Realm, Invention is choosing not to be contacted and can be discarded as an option. Harmony notes that Whimsy is unlikely to be of assistance, so can also be discounted. Valour is the most likely of these four, as Harmony says of her: "I do think that Valour is reasonable, and suggest you approach her again. It has been too long, in her estimation, since your last conversation." This is, outside of Harmony responding to Wit's letter in a helpful manner, the closest to an endorsement that Wit has received. I also note that Honour and Valour seem thematically very similar concepts, though clearly their Intents must be quite distinct for Brandon to choose to separate the two ideas. That being the case, the best manner in which to showcase the difference between the two would be to have Valour appear in a series that has so-far heavily focused on Honour. It is also an Intent that, judging by name alone, sounds most likely to want to intervene when it comes to Odium's machinations. Mercy is not to be discounted too quickly. Harmony notes, "Mercy worries me," and that, "Ambition, Mercy and Odium clashed - and Ambition was destroyed." There are many things that could be read into this, though the likeliest interpretation is that the actions of Mercy in some fashion aided the goals of Odium. This is not a Shard that Wit would want to approach, and I do not believe it as likely that Mercy will feature in The Stormlight Archives. However, there is the slight potential that Mercy could become aware of events transpiring on Roshar, and be inspired to take action of their own free will. Of the four RoW shards, I believe Mercy is the second most likely to be involved in SA, after Valour. Harmony Knocking off two Shards with one Vessel is Harmony, the combined powers of Ruin and Preservation. Harmony is the most receptive of all of the beings Wit has written to. Harmony recognises the risk of Odium and agrees with Wit that the other Shards should intervene before the problem escapes the Rosharan system. Harmony notes that he is searching for, "the ideal person to act on my behalf. [...] A sword, you might say," though whether such a champion is intended to represent Harmony's will outside of Scadrial or simply within it is unclear. The sense I get is that Harmony may send some limited assistance to Roshar, but will ultimately be more connected to Scadrial and will not 'step foot' on Roshar, especially as Harmony is concerned that other Shards are encroaching on his own world. There is definitely a great potential that Harmony represents the potential for all sixteen Shards to be reunited once again, and that this will be very threatening to Odium who may choose to target Harmony above all others should he escape the Rosharan system. There is also the fact that the leader of the Ghostbloods, Thaidakar, has a personal history with Harmony and is looking to transfer Investiture across the cosmere to various Shardworlds, and is shaping up to be a long-term threat within the Stormlight Archive. Given all of these factors put together, I put it at a high probability that Harmony becomes involved in some fashion with the events of Stormlight Archive. Autonomy Autonomy is not one to risk themselves - but they are one to involve themselves in the matters of others. Autonomy - or an Avatar of Autonomy at least - was dismissive of Wit's letter and even praised the initiative of Odium. That said, Autonomy notes that, "Perhaps if you had approached the correct one of us with your plea, it would have found favourable audience." This leads open the possibility that there is an Avatar of Autonomy that would be willing to listen to Wit's overtures. Further, Autonomy says, "If you wish more, seek these waters in person and overcome the tests we have created. Only in this will you earn our respect." So once more leaving the doors open for a change of view. Further, (or perhaps however,) Brandon was asked at Jordancon 2018 whether the Ghostbloods were affiliated with Autonomy and responded: ""Affiliated with" is very wiggle-room-ish. And so I'll go ahead and give you a RAFO on that one, even though I can totally wiggle on this one. I'm just gonna say "RAFO"; I'm gonna do the ultimate wiggle. There have been dealings." Given the coy nature of Brandon, I would not put it past him that the implication here is that an Avatar of Autonomy is in some fashion working alongside the Ghostbloods or have similar aims. Though that would suggest that Autonomy will be involved with SA due to a relationship with the Ghostbloods, given the Ghostbloods are acting as a third-party in this conflict on Roshar it may be that Autonomy will similar keep a distance from the conflict. I think there is a moderate chance that an Avatar of Autonomy appears in The Stormlight Archive, but that Autonomy herself will not make an active contribution to the plot. Endowment Endowment is the first Shard that Wit gains a response from and it is not a positive one. Endowment shows little concern for the Splintering of any of the Shards, noting that the Shards were meant to stay apart from one another. However, there is a slight glimmer of hope as Endowment's letter ends: "If Rayse becomes an issue, he will be dealt with. And so will you." This leaves open the possibility that Endowment may be encouraged to become involved in the conflicts, should Odium escape the confines of the Oathpact. Harmony writes in his letter that, "Endowment at least responded to my overtures," which again is suggestive that Endowment has the potential to be reasoned with. There is also a large crossover between Nalthis, the Shardworld that Endowment inhabits, and Roshar, in terms of characters. Nightblood, Vasher and Vivenna are all currently on Roshar, three of the main characters of Warbreaker. Brandon has noted that Nightblood's creation was based off of Shardblades, and that Warbreaker's intended sequel might not go ahead. There is every potential that this sequel is being folded in with The Stormlight Archive, as Vivenna is established as looking for Vasher whilst Nightblood has been used to slay Rayse and is in the hands of Szeth. With the amount of crossover between the characters, I find it compelling that Endowment may become involved in Stormlight Archives later on, purely from a meta standpoint. The Missing Two Naturally we do not know what these are, but I think it is safe to say that neither will make an appearance in the Stormlight Archives. The putting forward of the RoW Shards, to me, suggested that Brandon had decided names for these Shards and knew that they were unlikely to get their own dedicated novels as he prioritises what books he will be writing over the next few decades and so was happy to drop them in. That two of these names have been held back makes me feel that Brandon still intends for these to be important to some future novel, and for that to be the case it seems likely to me that they will not have a strong overlap with the Stormlight Archives. Cultivation Naturally, Cultivation is on Roshar. Cultivation will appear. Has appeared already. I simply finish on Cultivation to note this - we have been told Odium is dangerous to the cosmere at large, but we have not yet been shown it. We have not had revealed to us the full destructive potential of a Shard of hatred. And Cultivation is currently mentoring Taravangian in understanding the scope of his powers - and to her own detriment, I believe. I think, from a narrative standpoint, it makes sense that Odium will succeed in Splintering Cultivation, which will lead to the rolling in of wider cosmere-aware individuals. I suspect this will happen within the next two books, and with Odium being the sole Shard left on Roshar will leave the door open for new Shards to take the focus in these stories. Conclusion My first conclusion: I need a copy editor. Apologies for the long ramble. My second conclusion: I feel that it is essentially guaranteed that we will get more Harmony in some form in SA, but that in terms of "on screen" appearances of intimate Shard interactions and not simply sending the occasional mistborn helper, that the Shard of Valour is the most likely to become central to the Stormlight Archives. I also suspect that Endowment may also end up being deeply involved, though for rather complex reasons. Outside of that, my sense is that the other Shards will not be participants in the greater war for the Rosharan system - and the expanded war on the greater cosmere that Odium will no doubt unleash in the back five of these books. Thank you for your patience in reading this and I would be grateful to hear your thoughts.
  23. So we’ve seen a total of 5 on-screen deaths involving Raysium daggers: Jezrien, Essu, Phendorana, Raboniel, and Lezian. For the last four, we have a pretty good understanding of the mechanics. The dagger was set to have anti-Investiture flow out, that anti-Investiture collided with and destroyed opposing Investiture, thereby killing three Fused and one honorspren. With Jezrien though, there’s no anti-Investiture involved. His physical body is killed and his spirit (some combo of spiritual/cognitive aspects I think) was sucked into a gemstone through the Raysium dagger instead of returning to Braize via the Oathpact. Kelek describes what happened next as follows: I take it from the above that all that was left of Jezrien was an ordinary cognitive being that lacked the necessary Investiture to resist being pulled toward the beyond. And I understand the lack of a valid Connection to the Physical Realm. But I’m wondering about the mechanics of the severing of his Connection to the Spiritual. I think it breaks down into two questions: 1. What exactly was the “bond” that was severed? The most likely candidate seems to be his bond to the other Heralds. But I suppose it could be to Roshar? Something else? 2. How was the bond severed? Was it the fact that what remained of him was trapped in a gemstone that severed the bond? That would seem undercut by what Kelek says about BAM. She was also trapped in a gemstone but, according to Kelek, would not fade, suggesting that merely being in a gemstone didn’t cut off her access to Investiture. (Maybe this is because Honor is dead but Odium is not) Or was it something about being stabbed with a Raysium dagger? I assume that Jezrien’s being was still sufficiently linked with Honor’s Investiture when captured because Raysium conducts Investiture. So that seems to be how he was pulled into the gem (unless there was something special about the gem?). Did the process of being pulled through Raysium sever the bond? One thing I’ve been thinking is that maybe Raysium acts as some kind of Spiritual Division. I found some evidence for this in the herald portraits in the arches in chapters in which Raysium daggers appear. In all but two chapters in which the daggers appear, either Nale’s or Chana’s (the two heralds with access to division) portraits are included. So this just has me wondering if the surge of Division is part of what severed Jezrien’s Connection to the Spiritual Realm. Interested in any thoughts.
  24. In Rhythm of War, both the Sibling and Kalak claim that the imprisonment of Ba-Ado-Mishram not only impacted the singers, but also impacted all of the spren. Here's the Sibling in RoW 49: And here's the relevant passages from Kalak's journal in the epigraphs from Part 4: Note how the quotes suggest that BAM's imprisonment caused damage to Roshar itself, and by extension to those entities who souls were Connected to Roshar. To me, this suggests that the method BAM used to connect to the singers somehow exploited their Connection to Roshar. I tend to think that it was their Connection to the rhythms/songs of Roshar. Consider this WoB: There's also this line from the final Eshonai flashback, when the Stormfather lets her ride the storm: Note also that the rhythms are a cosmere-wide phenomenon that manifests in a particular way on Roshar: Ok, so this all makes me think that BAM must have connected to Roshar itself in some way and it was through that Connection that she was able to Connect with the singers. The singers are Connected to the rhythms, and the rhythms are Roshar. (This fits with the listeners being spared because they were in dullform and had only a tenuous Connection to the rhythms, which we've been told are difficult to hear when in dullform). So what about the spren? They are little pieces of Honor and Cultivation. Honor and Cultivation have Invested in Roshar. So the spren are clearly Connected to Roshar. But BAM's imprisonment did not tear our the Connection and Identity of the spren like it did the singers. How did it impact them then? What part of themselves are the spren missing with BAM still imprisoned? Whatever it is they are lacking, could it's absence be what causes them to become deadeyes now when Radiants break their oaths? (The book is not real clear on this. Kalak says deadeyes never existed before the Recreance. But we know the Recreance happened shortly after the imprisonment of BAM and shortly before the death of Honor. A lot of crem went down around the time of the False Desolation). The only real hint we get about what's missing is from the Sibling, who says that when BAM was imprisoned they lost the ability to hear Honor's and Cultivation's tones. I had once thought - then abandoned - but have come back around to the idea that BAM's imprisonment somehow cut off the signal or broadcast of the pure tones. In other words, before the imprisonment the pure tones emanated from Roshar itself. And entities with enough Connection to Roshar or one of the Shards could hear them. This would include the Sibling, spren more generally, the singers, and maybe Knights Radiant as well? But now, with BAM imprisoned, it's as if the tones are trapped in the Spiritual Realm and can't get through, so you need some other means of touching the Spiritual Realm in order to hear them. Here's a rundown of the times when characters are able to hear the pure tones (without someone singing them or playing them on a tuning fork or metal plate): Eshonai and the other soldiers who are the first to adopt warform hear Honor's tone during their transformation Eshonai mentions that there are stories that the first listeners to adopt workform heard Cultivation's tone Eshonai hears Honor's tone (along with Odium's and the Rhythm of War) when she bonds with Timbre right before her death Navani and Rushu catch hints of a tone and "thump" early in RoW when Dalinar opens a perpendicularity Venli hears an unspecified tone when she sees Rlain in the cell ("Venli felt all the rhythms freeze when she saw Rlain in the cell. Like the silence following a crescendo. ... In that silence, all of Roshar changed ... And in that silence, Venli thought she could hear something distant beyond the rhythms. A pure note.") Venli hears Cultivation's tone while thinking on the history of the listeners as told in her mother's songs; then she hears Odium's tone and its harmony with Cultivation's while communing with the stones of Urithiru and practicing her stoneshaping The Sibling is able to hear Cultivation's tone again during the climax of the battle of Urithiru, but can't find Honor's (I suspect the Sibling was able to hear Cultivation's tone again because Venli had been able to hear it while interacting with the stones of the tower) Navani finds Honor's tone within her just as she's about to bond the Sibling I think that's all of them. And I think that in each instance there's something happening to bring the character into contact with the Spiritual Realm. It's definitely the case with the transformations, with the characters bonding or about to bond a spren, and when the perpendicularity is opened. The borderline ones are the two Venli ones and the Sibling. But I think that with Venli, in those moments she's feeling an intense connection to her people and their history, helped along by communing with the old stones of Urithiru. And as I mentioned above, I think that the Sibling was picking up Cultivation's tone because of Venli finding it while communing with the stones. Could also have been the bond forming with Navani. (Or maybe Cultivation herself helped out? The Sibling does say that Honor should have been able to help her when she lost the ability to hear the tones, but that he didn't because he was losing his mind). Here's another thing. Aside from the Sibling and the stones of Urithiru, I don't think we ever hear a single spren talk about the pure tones. Doesn't that seem weird? Here's the stones in Urithiru noticing Odium's tone when Venli is using Voidlight to practice her surgebinding: They also mention the tones once later, but we don't get any sense one way or the other of whether they can actually hear Honor and Cultivation's tones: That's it. It just seems odd to me that we never see any other spren talking about the tones. (If I missed instances, please let me know) The main piece of evidence against the theory that BAM's imprisonment cut off the signal of the pure tones is the fact that Infused gems are able to pick up and echo the tones. But it's very faint and requires intense focus to hear. And given that it's really the Light that is picking up and and echoing those tones, and that the Light is itself Investiture brought forth from the Spiritual Realm, I don't think it completely destroys the theory. It would be weird if Investiture itself completely lost the ability to echo it's associated tone. As for what continuing impact the muffling or silencing of the pure tones might have on the spren, I don't really have any good theories. But if color is like flavor for spren, then maybe tones, especially the pure tones, carry some significance for them as well. I started this post genuinely questioning what impact BAM's imprisonment had on Roshar and the spren, but in the course of writing sort of convinced myself that it has something to do with a silencing of the pure tones of Roshar. But who knows, maybe I've got it all wrong and there's some other way that BAM's imprisonment damaged both Roshar and the spren. Do folks have other theories? I'd be interested to hear them.
  25. At JordanCon Brandon gave us this WoB The purpose of this thread is to brainstorm what these other methods could be, I have three ideas : Use a piece of meat soulcasted into something imperishable, maybe a rock that already have filling slots for the spikes. We know soulcasted flesh remember it use to be alive and can be made into lifelesses, maybe it'd be enough to trick the spike? Use the same kind of Soulcasting Fabrial Melishi used for the shield to have the material around the spike believe it's alive Bath the spike in ichor-alcohol. Ichor-alcohol is basically lifeless blood so it should manage to trick the spike and it's far easier to obtain than blood. It's possible you would have to use ichor that used to be in a lifeless which would make things more difficult but it'd still be far better than blood