Search the Community

Showing results for tags 'dawnshards'.

More search options

  • Search By Tags

    Type tags separated by commas.
  • Search By Author

Content Type


  • Brandon and Book News
  • Events, Signings, & Giveaways
  • Columns and Features
  • Site News
  • Shardcast


  • 17th Shard
    • Introduce Yourself!
    • 17th Shard Discussion
    • The Coppermind Wiki
    • Arcanum Discussion
  • Brandon Sanderson
    • General Brandon Discussion
    • Events and Signings
    • Sanderson Fan Works
    • Arcanum, the Brandon Sanderson Archive
  • Spoiler Zone
    • The Lost Metal (Mistborn Spoilers Only, No Cosmere)
    • Tress of the Emerald Sea (No Cosmere Spoilers)
    • New Cosmere Releases (Lost Metal and Tress Spoilers)
  • The Cosmere
    • Cosmere Q&A
    • Cosmere Discussion
    • Cosmere Secret Projects Previews
    • Stormlight Archive
    • Mistborn
    • Elantris and Emperor's Soul
    • Warbreaker
    • White Sand
    • Cosmere Short Stories
    • Unpublished Works
  • Non-cosmere Works
    • Non-cosmere Secret Project
    • The Reckoners
    • Skyward
    • The Rithmatist
    • Alcatraz
    • Dark One
    • Other Stories
    • The Wheel of Time
  • Related Works
    • Writing Excuses
    • Reading Excuses
    • TWG Archive
  • Community
    • General Discussion
    • Entertainment Discussion
    • Science, Tech, and Math Discussion
    • Creator's Corner
    • Role-Playing
    • Social Groups, Clans, and Guilds


  • Chaos' Blog
  • Leinton's Blog
  • 17th Shard Blog
  • KChan's Blog
  • Puck's Blag
  • Brandon's Blog
  • Darth Squirrely's Blog
  • Tales of a Firebug
  • borborygmus' Blog
  • Zeadman's Blog
  • zas678's Blog
  • The Basement
  • Addy's Avocations
  • Zarepath's Blog
  • First time reading The Well Of Ascension
  • Seshperankh's Blog
  • "I Have Opinions About Books"
  • Test
  • Which actors would you like to see playing the characters of Mistborn?
  • Drifted Mists
  • Jaron's Realm
  • Roshar Speculative Theories
  • ChrisHamatake's Blog
  • Paradox Flint's Blog
  • Deoradhan's Blog
  • Storm Blessed's Blog
  • Elwynn's Blog
  • firstRainbowRose's Blog
  • Rotabush ShardBlog
  • Hoid's Compendium
  • InterContinental Adventures
  • Claincy Creates
  • WoR Thoughts and Questions
  • Blogfalcon
  • David Coppercloud's Blog
  • yurisses' notes and theories
  • Lark Adventures
  • LUNA's Poetry
  • Inspiration Board
  • Trying to be Useful for a Change
  • The Way of Toasters
  • Cosmere Nerd Things
  • Dapper's Music Blog
  • Shhh Spoilers for Ronald.
  • Wyn's Adventures in Geekiness
  • Words With Ene
  • Dapper's Blog
  • Things to talk about, stuff to do
  • Zelly's Healthy-Accountability Blog
  • Even These Acronyms
  • Rhythm of War Liveblog
  • Unnecessarily Overcomplicated
  • Star's Art Blog
  • Weather Reports
  • Axioms Idioms & Adages
  • The Blog of Dubious Copyright Legality
  • Trutharchivist's Rambles
  • 5
  • Xino's corner of insanity
  • The Perfect Space Opera
  • My Journey Through Roshar (A Liveblog)
  • Lost Metal Liveblog by ccstat
  • The cheeseman does worldbuilding.


  • Community Calendar

Found 38 results

  1. Hello everyone! Short version: I made this table with checkboxes relating possible Downshards and Shards, I'd love it if you could check which ones you think could be related, to use as a starting point for a brainstorm. Thanks! Slightly longer version: So I've being working on a Dawnshards theory. Of course a big part of theorizing is now about: what the remaining 3 are what the "odd one out" would be, and how is it different how they relate to shards, if at all I've seen theories also including a different set of "properties", combined with the downshards to "categorize" all the shards, and the conversation often comes down to everyone having a slightly different spin on what the actual Downshards and correlations are. I think it would be very interesting to get a clearer feel for how you guys would connect Shards with possible downshards, to have a stronger base to brainstorm over. So I made a very simple survey with google forms. LINK It's a table where, for every shard, you can check all the possibile Dawnshards\attributes\ideas you feel could be related to it. To do this I put together my own guesses and many of the ones I could find browsing around as options. If you'd like to give your input but don't feel like spending more than a minute on this, feel free to just check the marks on the Shards you feel more confident about (say do Honor, ignore Mercy), but any input will be much appreciated. Once I have this, I'll look at correlations and see if any new idea pops up ^^ I'll be sharing the results anyways (in about a week time I think) in case they could be useful for any future theory on the topic. Thank you!
  2. Hi, so, I have little to back this theory up aside from the fact that Shards can Splinter, and that the vessels used Dawnshards to kill Adonalsium. As well as this simple RAFO'd WoB that doesn't deny the plausibility: Here's my gripe with the idea that there are only four Dawnshards, if we assume that there cannot be multiple of the same Dawnshard. I propose that Dawnshards could be split up, you know? Similar to how Shards themselves can break apart into fragments. I think that of the original vessels, each one had to have held one of these Dawnsplinters. So there are at least sixteen Dawnsplinters that may have been consumed in order for the pieces of Adonalsium to take them on. So, yes, there are four Dawnshards and each have a specific command, but there are sixteen Splinters at the least that carry those same commands. As well, I see a lot of people put the shards into neat little tables based on Dawnshards, but that feels reductive. Every Shard, in a way, uses various Command to fulfill their Intent. They won't fit into these categorizations very well. Not to say that the Shard received wasn't influenced by the Dawnshard you were holding at the time! Because what could, in fact, be true is that there may have NOT been any balance in the Shattering-- there weren't four Dawnsplinters per Dawnshard to make the Shattering a neat, balanced 16 different parts of Adonalsium. Hence why we have some overlap in Intents of Shards, like Ruin and Odium. I think Dawnsplinters were what was killing Yolen-- Hoid refers to too many people getting these unrestrained powers in Rhythm of War. Investiture given to Dawnsplinters is what the Sleepless do not want, naturally. I think that it is basically like how metals work on Scadrial-- the Dawnsplinter you have inside of you is a key for the magic, and when you give it Investiture and have an Intent for what the Dawnshard will do, it will perform that Command, but guided by your Intent. Like if you Intend to kill someone and activate the Change Dawnshard, it will perform an act of Change to kill that person. Hence why I think it is so dangerous-- it may not be nuanced enough, and the amount of Investiture you give it changes how powerful the effect is. In a way, all magical effects are "Dawnshards" -- at least, Commands-- or also better seen as Spells, each one with more nuance than a simple Dawnshard. But that's pure speculation. Going back to overlap in Shards, I can't really tell you all of the Dawnshards and the Ideal sixteen Shards. I have my own theories on what the four Dawnshards are, though, and they're a bit silly and based on, of course, speculation. But that's really all. It's really more of a belief than a theory, I suppose. A man can hope. TL;DR: Splinters of Dawnshards used. That means there may be many people out there today who are Dawnshards... or Dawnsplinters.
  3. So we now know the names/Intents of 14 Shards, and have hints that the 15th is something like "Wisdom". Which leaves us with only one total unknown. The mural in Dawnshard suggests the 16 Shards divide into four groups of four, each connected to one of the four Dawnshards. And each Dawnshard seems to be some kind of fundamental Command or Intent. One is "Change"; and the epigraph about the Dawnshard known to bind all creatures voidish or mortal suggests that another is "Bind" or an equivalent. Cultivation and Ruin are clearly "Change" associated. Honor, Devotion, and Dominion would be "Bind" associated. Preservation and Autonomy suggest that one of the others would be something like "Be" or "Be Yourself" or "Remain". I would suggest something like this scheme: Change Cultivation - Ruin (controlled growth vs entropic decay) Odium - Endowment (hatred and division and turning others against each other vs. giving freely of oneself, "without strings" - both are kind of "unbinding" but in very different ways) Be Preservation - Autonomy Mercy - Ambition (opposed in a sense, allowing others to heal and flourish vs becoming the most important thing in the universe) Bind Honor - Valor (oaths and bonds, putting yourself in harm's way to protect others) Devotion - Dominion Think Whimsy - Invention Wisdom - Judgment (understanding what is / making decisions and classifying the universe*) Judgment as the last Shard, and my interpretation of Valor's intent**, are probably the most likely to be wrong (well, I really doubt "Think" is the correct name for the fourth Dawnshard, but the concept might be valid). *I don't necessarily mean "Judgment" as just being guilty vs innocent in a "Skybreaker" sense, but also about analysis, classifying things, and understanding them individually rather than as a whole (Wisdom) **Valor could just be courage for its own sake, not necessarily have a positive connotation
  4. Is it possible for a dawnshard to be involved with Nightblood's creation? Could Shashara held a Dawnshard to help her visualize the creation? We see Vivenna's sword and it seems to do the same color draining thing, but not leaking investiture or whatever. Is that due to a different command or the lack of a dawnshard involvement? But while Nightblood is incredibly powerful, at the same time he doesn't seem like Dawnshard powerful.
  5. Is there any chance Rysn ever will be able to use the Dawnshard? Apologies if Dawnshard answered this question. I don’t have that novella, and it’s been a while since I’ve read it.
  6. Ok so! I just got off the phone, and here's what we talked about. Theory 1: The definition of Shattered is "(of something abstract) damaged or destroyed." Adonalsium is most definitely an abstract being. Something damaged/destroyed can be fixed, to a certain degree. The main point of this theory is that if someone could combine the 16 Shards, and the 4 Dawnshards, that massive coalescing of power would combine into a sentient being. A New Adonalsium. Theory 2 (Disproven): Only exact opposite shards can Splinter each other. Disproven because Odium Splintered Honor, Devotion, and Dominion. (Sorry if I missed any) Theory 3: As shown in the Dawnshard novella, Adonalsium is portrayed in the mosaic as a sun split into 4 chunks (Dawnshards) and those chunks were also split 4 ways (Shards). As such, all Shards are just manifestations of either one Dawnshard, or a combo of 2. Theory 4: Wit (Hoid, Cephandrius) is gathering parts of different Shard's magic systems to combine it all into New Adonalsium, as discussed in theory 3. Theory 5: Opposite shards (Preservation, Ruin) are needed to actually create life. The Singers were already there when Honor and Cultivation arrived, as were the humans on Ashyn when Odium got there. But Preservation and Ruin worked together to make Scadrial and its life forms. Theory 6: As discussed in the Dawnshard novella, Rysn feels from the mosaic different feelings. I forget what they were, and I don't know where to go to find the quote. If someone could do that, and post is as a reply, that'd be great. Back to the point, these feelings are interpreted as what Adonalsium felt during the shattering. And, as Adonalsium died, we theorized that parts of his being also became ingrained on the Commands used to kill him. The Dawnshards themselves. Thoughts on it all? Seriously, give me some thoughts. Please. I had way too much fun talking about this, I need more interaction based on these theories.
  7. So we know there are Four Dawnshards and 16 Shards, and the Akinah Mural implied they could be seperated into four groups of four. And we do know that the Shards were to some degree effected by the Dawnshards ( We know one of the Dawnshards is Change, this can be connected to Ruin and Cultivation, Endowment, possibly Invention If another is the opposite of this, like how Allomantic Metals have opposites in a sense, we can assume Stasis. Which would connect to Preservation, possibly Honor, Change: Ruin: Is inevitable change and decay, entropy Cultivation: Lets people grow and advance Endowment: Resurrects and Gifts people to let them grow and change the future Invention: "the action of inventing something, typically a process or device." or "Creative Ability", these both fit very well with the idea of change and development Stasis: Preservation: Actively works to keep things in stasis and prevent change Honor: Is all about oaths and laws and keeping to them Dominion: Is possibly about keeping authority and having others function according to law This is all that I can think up for this so far, though Autonomy, Odium, Ambition, and Whimsy seem to possibly share traits of living for oneself and ones passions and desires.
  8. Closing up the bar on my phone and this thought occurred to me: Hoid, in the epigraphs of Stormlight, asks Frost how he’s enjoying his new found immortality. This is odd because we know from wobs that dragons, by nature, are functionally immortal. I propose that Frost was in possession of the Dawnshard opposite from Hoid’s. Perhaps even the Change Dawnshard, which was somehow counteracting his natural immortality. So he gives up said Dawnshard which causes Hoid to congratulate him on no longer aging. This is also kinda backed up by the fact that the only people who were involved with the shattering that we are aware of became Dawnshards or Shards and we know Frost was involved. And we know that whatever Dawnshard Hoid had made him immortal amongst other things. And if it was Change it fits the timeline relatively well because we know it came to Roshar within Horneater memory.
  9. theory

    Now that the Dawnshard spoiler period has ended... (0.) TL;DR I believe Dawnshards grant microkinesis. Whether this is the only requirement to access it, whether this is the only way to get microkinesis, and whether this is even still canon are all questions left unaddressed by this theory, though I have my own opinions on them. (I believe the answers are "no", "probably yes", and "probably yes", respectively. The first is due to Rysn, the second is due to a line from Hoid in Dragonsteel Ch. 14, the last is part of a whole other post that I need to write after this one.) (1.) [REDACTED] (2.) Topaz and Jerick (3.) The Actual Theory (I.) References
  10. Okay so this theory is going to be half formed and probably not great but a lightbulb went off in my head while re-reading Mistborn. Burning atium grants future sight, to a degree, feruchemists can store youthfulness, and and an atium spike can steal any ability. It makes sense that in Ruin's own magic system it could steal any ability, making it the most powerful metal out of his system because it decays the source of the power, but the other two are temporal in nature. We also know that Cultivation and Endowment are very skilled in future sight while other shards struggle with this. What I'm thinking is that Shards from the change quadrant of the Dawnshard chart will have more powerful temporal abilities, this being due to the fact that the nature of their power is to change things and so they can read the effects of changes much more easily. I am pretty steadily convinced that invention will also be one of the Change Shards so in theory that takes care of all four from that quadrant. If I'm right about this, the other three quadrants relating to the nature of the shards abilities would grant four Shards a specific strength in their given attribute rather than simply having power related to that attribute. We know from a word-of-Brandon that one of the Dawnshards is unique while the other three have a much closer relation so I'm asking in this post if anyone has ideas for what the other Dawnshards might be based on the powers granted by certain shards. I know this is kind of a long shot because Odium is also particularly skilled in future sight and Preservation showed at least proficiency in this area as well, but I feel at this point any information we can base theories on is worth looking at for the sake of hopefully predicting a Dawnshard or two before the next Stormlight book comes out 3 years from now
  11. I have come to believe that Adonalism was somehow convinced to kill himself. We know that the Dawnshards we used to unto/kill Adonalism and we also know that the use of the Dawnshards in such a way would require "the breath of understanding of a diety" Certain things are strongly implied: The larger in scope the deed you try to do with a Dawnshard the greater the breath of understanding needed the bring the proper intent. The undoing of Adonalism required all four Dawnshards. I also believe that while the Dawnshards were held by Adonalism there were together as a part of him. He would have been the only one powerful even to use it. While he held it, it was one thing which we can call the Dawn Adonalism was put in a situation where he had to use the Dawn (combined dawnshards) to pull the dawnshards apart Doing so killed Adonalism splitting his power and expending the power of the dawn
  12. theory

    This has been discussed before, but as far as I know it was never updated to include the new Shards from RoW. The basic premise, obviously, is that the Dawnshards would correspond to the cards colors in Magic: The Gathering. The WoB below provides some crucial information here: There are two major issues that need to be solved, though: There are 5 card colors and 4 Dawnshards. I believe that's not really a problem, as the Change Dawnshard covers two colors: green and blue Devotion and Dominion have two colors, quite possibly because Elantris was written before Cosmere fully took shape. I think, however, that, when other Shards are taken into consideration, they can be reasonably placed within red and white colors, respectively All the colors description below were copied from here. Also, as I've realized while writing this down, Dawnshards and Awakening work in a kind of similar way, and Awakening uses colors White Shards (Dawnshard of Order/Unity/Morality?) White color description: Shards: Honor, Preservation, Dominion, the 16th Unknown Shard They seem exceptionally important for the Cosmere as a whole, as all core worlds (Roshar, Scadrial, Sel) have at least one Shard from this category. This is possibly the Dawnshard from the Poem of Ista, as well as Hoid's Dawnshard, based on his old quasi-Stoneward oath and inability to hurt people. Black Shards (Dawnshard of Individuality/Destruction?) Black color description: Shards: Ambition, Ruin, Whimsy, Autonomy (the "main" Shard, Avatars can probably have different colors) Red Shards (Dawnshard of Emotion?) Red color description: Shards: Odium, Devotion, Valor, Mercy Green & blue Shards (Dawnshard of Change) Green color description: Blue color description: Shards: Cultivation & Endowment (green), Invention and (non-canonical yet) Wisdom / Prudence (blue) The Change Dawnshard seems to cover both natural growth and intentional human activity, making it compatible with both green and blue colors
  13. theory

    I mentioned in my Dawnshards and Microkinesis theory[1] a few times that I was going to be writing another related theory. Took longer than I expected, but here we are. (0.) TL;DR I theorize that several Surges share a connection to Dawnshards, though whether this is purely thematic, or due to perception shenanigans, or in some way related directly, I am unsure. These Surges are Cohesion, Transformation, and Division. (1.) Cohesion (2.) Transformation (3.) Division (4.) Some Concluding Thoughts (I.) References
  14. Okay so here’s my Dawnshard theory which I’ve spent way too much time trying piece together. By the way I hope it’s okay to make a new post as I have seen a couple going around but with different interpretations than my own... I’ve had a lot of different ideas but this is the first one that I’ve come up with that has all four that would work together with the Shards that we know. I’ve tried to work this out based on a few key bits of information: Hoid held a Dawnshard which is the reason he cannot physically harm others or even eat meat. (Perhaps also the reason he is immortal). The Dawnshards were used to shatter Adonalsium, and were used in the destruction of Ashyn. I can’t remember if this is confirmed or only a theory, but they perhaps also caused the shattering of the Shattered Plains. So shattering is a recurring thing... The Dawnshards are the Commands used by Adonalsium to create all things - therefore I feel they need to apply to energy and matter, as well as to life. So far many theories are more applicable to life whereas Change is something much more fundamental which can be applied to energy (eg. change from light to heat, kinetic to gravitational, etc), matter (eg. from one form to another, from something to nothing, etc) and life (people change, ideas change, singers change form, etc). CHANGE Cultivation Whimsy Ruin Endowment Based on the fundamental law of conservation that energy is neither created nor destroyed, only transformed. This is the case for investiture in the Cosmere too. (From what I understand, Atium was not destroyed because it will eventually re-emerge - which also fits with the final Dawnshard I’ve theorised. Light and anti light seem to function like matter and anti matter in that the two can destroy one another but leave behind energy - eg. an explosion - another example of change, and why Ruin fits so perfectly here). I think these Shards would fit if we think of change as being cultivated or random, destructive or constructive. CONSERVE/ REMAIN Preservation Dominion Autonomy ? *Not to be confused with the Dawnshard of jam making... This one is linked to the above law of conservation of energy (and mass), and that if a system is isolated it will remain at rest - it can only be set in motion by an external force. This would be the Hoid Dawnshard which prevents him from physically harming others or himself, and is likely the key to his immortality. The definition of conserve is to “protect from harm or destruction”, and the definition of remain is to “continue to exist, especially after other similar people or things have ceased to do so”. PROPEL (Shattered plains) Valour Odium Ambition Invention This is based on the fundamental forces of momentum and velocity - “the mechanical impulse experienced during the absorption or emission of light”. I believe this Dawnshard is a likely candidate for the destruction of Ashyn if it could be used to propel the surges. I can also see how this Dawnshard in combination with the other Dawnshards would cause the effect of “shattering” - which we see in both the case of Adonalsium and the Shattered Plains. For example, the combination of Propel and Change would break something apart, while the effect of Conserve/Remain would try to prevent this so that the pieces cannot be split apart too far or into to many pieces... The role of the Reforge/Unite Dawnshard is responsible for the pattern that we are able to see (eg. the Shattered Plains have a symmetrical pattern) that enables us to piece something back together. REFORGE/ UNITE Devotion Honour Mercy This final one is based on an article I read called The Fundamental Laws of Matter and Energy by Gilbert N. Lewis, which states that if a body suffers a mere loss of energy through radiation, and if then the same amount of energy is returned to it by thermal conduction, or friction, or in any other such way, the system will return to its original state. I feel like this could foreshadow the piecing back together of the Shards of Adonalsium, which we’ve already seen beginning to happen with Harmony. I also feel that the combination of the Change Dawnshard and this Reforge/Unite Dawnshard could help explain the line from the Dawnshard novella where Ryan feels something emanating from the mural... Adonalsium, according to Their own Commands, had to change at some point, was resigned to this, understood this, and was confident that They would be reforged again, anew? That the Cosmere as a whole had to experience change and be propelled in ways that Adonalsium was in some ways preventing? I’m not 100% sure on the names I’ve come up with, nor am I 100% sure about some of the proposed Shards in each (in particular Mercy, and possibly Endowment). Also I am by no means a physicist or science expert so I don’t fully understand the fundamental principles of energy and matter but I did do some research and I feel like this could be on the right track... Also I feel like there’s probably just way too much that we still don’t know to understand Dawnshards so this is probably completely wrong, but let me know what you think
  15. What dawnshards did Jerrick or whatever his name was, and the illusion women, hold in dragonsteel? im aware BS has said the cannon has changed but I can’t help but think there is a hint in the answer.
  16. We now know that Bondsmiths existed on Ashyn before the Nahel Bond was discovered and they were able to bind Surges somehow (Surge fabrials, probably) and use Connection to achieve spectacular results. Comparing this description with what the Dawnshards were supposed to do, it seems quite likely that they were simply using them. If so, is it possible that Ba-Ado-Mishram was able to get one somehow and use it to cause the False Desolation? Each Unmade can be mapped (with some fuzziness, of course) to a KR order, with the exception of Bondsmiths. BAM's abilities during the False Desolation, however, seem like a supercharged, Roshar-wide, version of what Bondsmiths can do (providing Connection and Investiture). It was also the first time she showed these powers: the KR weren't sure how she did it ("Ba-Ado-Mishram has somehow Connected with the parsh people") and we know that historically they feared Sja-Anat more. I think it is in the realm of possibility that her original powers were completely unrelated to this, but, against all odds, she was able to obtain a Dawnshard. Maybe it was stolen from Aimia? In such case, the Scouring might have been an attempt to repeat the False Desolation by Dai-Gonarthis
  17. Background Preservation & Ruin created the planet Scadrial together from scratch after the Shattering. Trell is a shard/or shard-like entity that is unknown to Harmony Trellium is the metal of a known shard: Possible shard candidates (at time of WoB): Devotion, Dominion, Preservation, Ruin, Odium, Honor, Cultivation, Endowment, or Autonomy But not necessarily a shard: Devotion and Dominion have spren-like cognitive splinters – seons and skai respectively Seons are ‘devoted’ servants to their masters Skai are described as ‘evil seons’ ( Avatars of Shards can be imbued with an intent and can operate after a shard’s vessel has died The Mist continued to snap people on Scadrial after Ati died Theory Preservation & Ruin pooled their Investiture and used a Dawnshard to create the planet Scadrial Ruin agreed to this use of Investiture on condition that he could destroy the planet eventually The Dawnshard that allowed for the planet’s creation is still on Scadrial and is currently being protected by Harmony A primary of Intent of Dominion shard is ‘to dominate’ The skai are evil counterparts to seons who are described as being helpful and obedient. The opposite of this could be 'dominating'. Trell is an avatar of Dominion Etymologically the word Trell is related to a Norse word meaning ‘slave or thrall’. This aspect fits as an aspect of Dominion that has an Intent to dominate Trellium is Dominion’s metal Trellium as a hemolurgic spike allowed for control over Paalm and the hemalurgic chimeras created by her. This fits with an Intent of domination. Harmony is unaware of what Trellium is and that it comes from Dominion because the Vessel of Dominion is dead. His knowledge of Shards and wider Realmatic Theory comes from self-study and from whatever the other Shard Vessels and people like Hoid tell him Trell's ultimate purpose is to get the Dawnshard on Scardrial Open Questions As an avatar of Dominion, Trell was able to move a large amount of Dominon’s Investiture off planet. Could this be connected to Kelsier (and by extension the Ghostbloods) goal to learn how to move large amounts of Investiture off planet? Could Odium’s decision to destroy Dominion (and Devotion) be influenced by what Dominion’s plans were? What (if any) is the connection to the man named Trell on Taldain?
  18. This thread is to continue the discussion about the natures of the four Dawnshards, and which Shards might be associated with each, but with the addition of Invention, Whimsy, Mercy, and Valor. --- My current idea: Change - Cultivation, Ruin, Endowment, Preservation. I understand that including Preservation here seems backwards, but being adamantly against change is still being defined by your relationship to change. Bind or Restrain - Honor, Dominion (the binding of others), Devotion (the binding of the self), Autonomy (included here under the same rationale as including Preservation under CHANGE). Act - Odium (acting from hatred, passion, fury), Ambition (taking action to fulfill one's goals), Invention (acting on ideas), Whimsy (the freedom to act on caprice). The final set, I have a hard time summing up in a single verb, but I understand as sort of a philosophical opposite to ACT. What Odium, Ambition, Invention, and Whimsy have in common is that they are centered on the desires, feelings, and thoughts of the self, with a certain disregard for what effects your actions have on the world around you. These Shards all impose their own will on the world, exert control on the world. In contrast, the final set have in common a certain self-abnegation. Instead of being able to impose your own will on the world, these Shards are about what you do when you have no control over the world, how you behave when faced with bad circumstances. I am reminded of Jasnah's perspective on the word 'hope': a value you turn to when you lack options. Arguably irrational, yet still noble. With that in mind, I lean toward Accept, but React or Choose could also work. Valor - True valor only exists when you are scared, but stand firm anyway. You accept that circumstances are dire, and choose to disregard your own survival. Mercy - True mercy only exists when you could punish somebody, but stay your hand. You accept letting somebody "get off light", and instead choose forgiveness and compassion. Hypothetical Wisdom/Prudence/Understanding Shard - The better part of wisdom is setting aside wishful thinking and accepting the world as it is, choosing to face hard truths over comforting lies. Honestly, a Hope Shard could very well fit here, but who even knows. I actually see all four of these Commands as underpinned by a fundamental philosophical dichotomy: that of self vs other, or perhaps subject vs object. But that gets very nebulous (and long-winded) so I'll save it for another post, perhaps.
  19. Like the title says, what will we actually learn about the Dawnshards from the Novella? from a WoB in January, brandon says that we’ll learn about the history and current lore of Aimia and some “other interesting things”(aka dawnshards) its pretty early into the series and i don’t expect well actually see a Dawnshard this early. but i do think that we will learn about the Scouring of Aimia and some other details thatll lets us/main characters, see the effects of a Dawnshard(if indeed one was used there) and discuss what had happened. or maybe we will just get some outright details on them(from a sleepless or something) which i think is less likely given their protective nature of the place. Some random Dawnshard thoughts: Brandon has said we have “technically seen evidence of a dawnshard” and that it was a “yes/no” when asked if we've seen one. So im assuming the “evidence” is something like the big soulcast walls around Aimia or what Shattered the Plains, or even some strange rock formations like the windblades and the yes/no, on if weve seen one, im assuming that we probably did see one or get a reference to it but its no longer in the form it used to be in, so we wouldn’t recognize it. we also know that “one is different from all the rest” it could be the one thats no longer in the same form
  20. TL;DR Dawnshards "bind" things to powers, sorta. They were used to make the Surge fabrials, and before that, were used on Ashyn to create the disease magic, a pandemic of which is what led to the Exodus. I can't actually take full credit for the theory; I saw the theory they were used to make Soulcasters elsewhere, but I can't remember where to give credit, unfortunately. So far as I know, however, the latter theory is my own. First, what do we know about these things? Now, for wild speculation connecting these things! Here's the ones I'm at least semi-confident in: But what about the parts you aren't confident in? Alright then, he's some much more stretch-y parts of the theory/smaller separate theories. I'm here for crazy theories, these at least have some evidence or logic! I want my money back! Closing thoughts [insert my usual disclaimer about typos and odd ways of phrasing things, because I'm too lazy for more than a cursory scan of what I wrote] I'm not convinced of this theory, but I prefer it to just Surge enhancers. So yeah. And I like it more and more as I think about it. And as usual, this theory is somewhat rushed and not super thought through. So may have some glaring issues I didn't notice, idk. Edit: Ah, I first heard the idea on this Shardcast episode. Turns out the base theory is... embarrassingly close to identical to one of the ideas they speculated on. I did expand on it a lot, and speculate about more details, but the basic idea I apparently subconsciously took nearly unchanged. Oops References
  21. The announcement of Dawnshard's title got me thinking about the nature of the dawnshards (like everyone else here I imagine ) and I think there's a possibility we may not have considered. (I didn't find any older threads talking about this idea, but I apologise if there is one.) We may have made some assumptions about the nature of dawnshards that we shouldn't have. Of the little information we have about dawnshards most of it is 2nd hand and of dubious veracity. In particular I'm not wholly convinced that dawnshards are actually objects. I'm wondering if they're simply dawnsingers who've bonded with highspren. Or a specific order/group thereof. (If that is the case, Venli would be a proto-dawnshard.) Let's review what information on the Dawnshards we actually have. The poem of Ista is probably based on real events, but to a very limited extent. I'd assume there's an element of truth in there or Brandon wouldn't have put it in the book. However, I doubt the in-world author has any idea what dawnshards actually are. Even taken as written it only very loosely implies that the dawnshard is an object and not a person or creature. He could easily be accompanied by or carrying a person. I would guess that it is accurate that dawnshards could bind things, but that's all I'd say with any confidence. It does seem that they are commonly thought of as objects in mythology. But without any actual knowledge it's only natural that people would think of something named x-shards as objects of power. I don't think this quote does much to help or hinder the theory. It tells us the dawnshards seem to be gone or unavailable in some manner and that they would be very helpful in defeating Odium. But that makes sense whether they are objects or singers. Singers bonded with spren of honor & cultivation instead of voidspren or lesser spren are more likely to oppose Odium I would think. This is far and away the most useful quote we have. But even this one could be a little misleading. The Stormfather is relating something Honor said while dying and "raving". And the Stormfather was still coming to full consciousness and says his memories of it were "strange". I don't doubt the direct truth of what the quote says, but it could be misleading beyond that. Firstly, it is unusual but not unheard of to refer to dangerous/powerful people as weapons. So even taking it at face value I don't think this confirms the dawnshards are objects. More interesting is "used to destroy the Tranquiline Halls." and the promise that surgebinders would do the same to Roshar. If my theory is right (which it may not be) that would mean that some Dawnshards had traveled to Ashyn prior to it's destruction, and were involved in that destruction. Which seems a bit of a leap at first, but thinking further it seems likely that some humans or singers had traveled between the worlds before the destruction of Ashyn. I'm not saying the dawnsingers were responsible for Ashyn's destruction; I do think Odium influenced humans were responsible. But these dawnsingers could have been used/participants in what happened. And/or the humans could have attempted to reproduce their powers. If this was the case, that would help explain why Honor and Odium both thought human surgebinders might destroy Roshar. This might be the strongest point against this theory. Though we don't know how biased the account may be. The singers were forbidden to touch those powers, presumably by Honour and/or Cultivation. But we don't know when they were forbidden, they may have been forbidden because of the destruction of Ashyn and have used them before then. We also don't know how long after Ashyn's destruction/the human arrival on Roshar this was written. Though from the little we know it was probably many years. I have to guess that the powers being forbidden happened before the wars and the oathpact. There isn't as much need to forbid it when the spren have already joined the humans, using Odium's power/voidspren is presumably worse. And I doubt the singers cared much what Honor/Cultivation might forbid them from doing after they felt they'd been betrayed by them and started serving Odium. The last line in particular strongly suggests that the higher spren had bonded with singers in the past. I'm not supremely confident in this theory, but I do think it's possible. It also just feels to me like something Brandon might do. Do you think the theory has merit? Or am I way off base. Some other relevant wobs
  22. This is something I came up with at 3 am, so let me know if it gets too crazy Here it goes: We know that Ashyn doesn't currently have any Shard (WoB), but a question if there was ever a Shard there is considered a spoiler (WoB). Ashyn magic wasn't always disease-based (WoB), but used to similar to surgebinding (WoB). Given that Ashyn people used Dawnshards “known to bind any creature voidish or mortal” (Poem of Ista) to destroy their planet and were able to escape it using powers “of spren and Surges” (Eila Stele), it seems certain that there were spren (and therefore probably a Shard) there. Could that Shard be Odium? That seems very unlikely – it would mean that sometime during his Shard killing spree he decided to make a stop (next to a dishardic planet!), Invest there and give people weapons potentially able to harm him (Dawnshards). No, Odium would make a detour to Ashyn only if there was a real threat to him there that needed to be neutralized before taking care of Roshar. That leaves Cultivation and Honor, but as far as we know they've Invested in Roshar before the arrival of humans, so it's unlikely that any of them is responsible for Ashyn magic. My theory is that this Shard was a child of Cultivation and Honor – Unity. It was confirmed that Shards Vessels could have children (WoB) and that being a Shard affects pregnancy (WoB). I assume here that a Shardic child would be considered a Shard with a big asterisk (using terminology from this WoB on Patji), but would still count as two Shards together with their parents (Tanavast + Slammer + Unity = Honor + Cultivation). This way, we still have three Shards overall in the Rosharan system, even though the number of Vessels may not match. Unity would probably have a very atypical childhood (to say the least), so many human concepts (such as gender) could be foreign to them – and this attitude would be shared with their godspren, the Sibling (WoB). It's hard to say if Unity would have their own type of Investiture, but if they used Cultivationlight (WoB) instead, it would explain why we see so little of it compared to Stormlight. Finally, Unity would explain why we see two mixed (Cultivation + Honor) magic systems – Surgebinding was created directly by their Investment in Roshar and fabrials (part of the another magic system per this WoB) were originally developed on Ashyn by Unity and then brought to Roshar by humans. The latter is corroborated by the fact that humans left Ashyn using a type of Oathgate before there were any fabrials on Roshar at all (this WoB, though it's technically not canonized yet due to Spiritual Realm mechanics issues). At the beginning Unity would be underpowered as a Shard, but nothing stops them from travelling across Cosmere. gathering unclaimed Honor/Cultivation Investiture and growing stronger. This would also explain Unity's apparent effect on some of Cosmere's religions (Shu-Keseg concept of unity on Sel, “The One” worshipped by Iriali who later travel to Roshar). This sounds a lot like Autonomy, doesn't it? I think this might set up a future (post–Stormlight) conflict between both Shards, which can be seen as opposing forces. I also believe that at some point during their Cosmere journey, Unity recruited Dysian Aimians (whom we know to be worldhoppers present on many worlds: WoB here and here) as their agents, possibly because of their nature being an actual embodiment of Unity's intent. Anyway, Unity finally brings some humans to the Rosharan system, settles on Ashyn and Invests there, creating a fabrial–based magic system using Dawnshards (probably Unity's splinters, analogically to Honor and Honorblades). What are Dawnshards? I think they're tools for capturing, storing and transforming spren of any kind. The first two are kind of obvious, but what about transformation? We know that in many ways spren behave like wave–functions in quantum mechanics (flamespren study in one of interludes in The Way Of Kings). If so, we should theoretically see things like quantum superposition or Bose–Einstein condensates. In Cosmere terms, it would mean that spren could be merged with each other to create something new. Merging lesser spren associated with a given order of Knights Radiant is already believed by many to be the source of Shardplates. I believe that a similar process, merging of one or many inkspren and lighspren, leads to the creation of unique Oathgate spren (the same mechanism applies to other Surge fabrial spren as well). This could also explain the origin of the Unmade, who were “made, then unmade”. Not created or born. Made – created from other spren by Dawnshards, only to be later corrupted by Odium. For example, Yelig–nar might have originally been an attempt to create a spren able to form Nahel Bond giving all the surges (Rosharan version of lerasium, basically). Re–Shephir seems like a supercharged version of creationspren, Chemoarish – ashspren etc. We know that one Dawnshard is different from the rest (WoB) and that at least one of them is “known to bind any creature voidish or mortal” (Poem of Ista). I believe they're one and the same, and that binding a mortal creature means creating a Cognitive Shadow copy of a person, providing exactly the same form of immortality that the Heralds and the Fused would later use. What is more, this particular Dawnshard seems to be still active on Roshar. That's why Dalinar can be forgiven by Evi during the Battle of Thaylen Field and that's why his second vision of Nohadon is so strange – they are both Cognitive Shadows. The Tranquiline Halls myth in Vorinism is not just a tale of how people left Ashyn – it has additional hidden meaning. Some chosen people don't just go Beyond, they are given some sort of immortality to join the fight with Odium (or be useful to Unity in other ways). I think that's the reason Odium created Moelach. His power seems useless to Odium at first, but he can “seeps into a soul as it breaks apart from the body” (Diagram) and works “at the transition point between realms. When a soul was nearing the Tranquiline Halls” (Hessi's Mythica). He can prevent a person from being captured by a Dawnshard and extract information from them (something the Sleepless of Aimia are afraid in Kaza's interlude in Oathbringer). Moelach's purpose is to search for Dawnshards and interfere with their activity. It's hard to tell if Cognitive Shadows can be merged just as spren, but if they do, that might potentially explain the weird nature of Cusicesh the Protector with it's multitude of rapidly changing human faces. The special Dawnshard also provides an explanation for another question – how Unity could survive their fight with Odium. Before Ashyn was destroyed, Unity's followers (the Sleepless) escaped to Roshar with two Dawnshards. One of them, used for creating Surge fabrials, ended up in Aimia (WoB). The other one, storing a copy of Unity's mind, was hidden by Cultivation (we know that her magic can hide things from Odium – Lift hides from Odium in one of Dalinar's visions). Where such a thing could be stored? My best bet is the Origin of Storms. This place is clearly important, as indicated by Puuli's interlude and Wandersail story (also, Cusicesh always looks in that direction). If the Highstorm really originates there (or, more likely, simply recharges there), the place must be full of Investiture to power a device storing Cognitive Shadows of a Shard and a great number of people. Also, as Investiture resists Investiture, the Origin would be very hard to spy on by Odium's forces. As a result, Odium isn't aware that Unity is alive until the Thaylen Field (his future sight is useless here, as Cultivation and Unity are together equally good at it, or even better) and ends up screaming "No, we killed you. We killed you!". tl;dr version: Unity is the child of Cultivation of Honor and the original Shard on Ashyn. They created the first fabrial–based magic system utilizing Dawnshards that can (A) bind and merge spren into more powerful, unique spren (e.g. Surge fabrial spren) and (B) create Cognitive Shadow copies of people. Using the latter, a Cognitive Shadow of Unity survived the fight with Odium and was hiding with Cultivation's help, planning to strike Odium and finally revealing themselves during the Battle of Thaylen Field.
  23. A random thought: Could Cultivation's vessel's name be Dawn as in Dawn's Shadow, Dawnshards, Dawnsingers? Don't have time to think about it any more as I'm at work. It just crossed my mind. Please discuss ;-)
  24. Hello everyone! Welcome to another “Theory that feels right based on limited information” by OJ! For those that don’t listen to the Shardcast, we recently discussed Aimia and managed to spend the majority of the runtime talking about the Dawnshards. I went into that podcast having never connected the two, but based on the discussions we had (And they were some good discussions, I do recommend listening to it!) I have come out fully believing Aimia’s history and fate are tied to the Dawnshards. Warning, this theory has a basis in theories. I am going to outline the initial theories that have evidence for them, then follow them with theories based on those theories. First things first: 1. The Dawnshards were involved in the destruction of Ashyn. - Oathbringer, Chapter 113 In his dying days, Honor spoke of the Dawnshards. Due to the wording of this quote, I can’t tell if this is a claim by dying Honor or something the Stormfather is adding himself. Either way, it is claimed they were the weapons used to destroy the Tranquiline Halls. As we know, the Vorin Tranquilline Halls are Ashyn (Although culturally I believe they were originally Roshar). This matches up with one of the few other quotes we have about the Dawnshards (Did you know they’ve only been mentioned 4 times in the whole of SLA so far?): - Way of Kings, Chapter 75 Honor clearly wishes that the current crop of Radiants had access to the Dawnshards. One interpretation of this quote, which I am using in this theory, is that they are something which grants great power. This interpretation is supported by another quote about the Dawnshards: - Way of Kings, Chapter 36 Epigraph Emphasis mine. Whatever they are, if this legend is correct, the Dawnshards sound like something that is very powerful. So, this is my first statement. I then believe the Dawnshards were brought to Roshar by the Ashynites. 2. The Dawnshards were brought to Roshar by the Ashynites More specifically, the Dawnshards were brought to Roshar by the Ashynites and somehow ended up in Aimia. This one is a little more shaky, but check out this Kaza interlude quote: - Oathbringer, Interlude I-04 Emphasis mine. Oh boy, this Aimian sure does want to protect Aimia real bad. What secret could possibly be so great as to end worlds? Well, how about the items used to end a world? I believe the secret that this Aimian is trying to protect is the existence/location of the Dawnshards. This is the most explicit link, but in my opinion there are two other things that link Aimia and the Dawnshards. First is what I believe to be Brandon trickery. The Oathbringer quote above (The one from the Stormfather about Honor) from Chapter 113, the epigraph for that chapter? It’s this: - Oathbringer, Chapter 113, Epigraph So again, we have 4 mentions of Dawnshards total in 3 books. The epigraph for the chapter that tells us the most we’ve heard about the Dawnshards so far explicitly mentions Aimia. This isn’t the only one. Less likely to be Brandon trickery and might just be a coincidence is Way of Kings Chapter 36. This is the chapter with the “Bind any creature voidish or mortal” epigraph. In this chapter, Aimia is mentioned again. This one is just an offhand remark from Jasnah so seems less likely: - Way of Kings, Chapter 36 This one I’m less keen on Brandon messing with us, but it’s there. My second link between Dawnshards and Aimia is actually my third theory (I did warn you about theories in theories). 3. The Dawnshards were used to create the ancient fabrials This is based on Jofwus idea about ancient fabrials. For a quick rundown, ancient fabrials like Soulcasters and Oathgates seem to use willing, sentient spren whilst modern fabrials use trapped spren against their will. Please check out Jofwus theory on ancient vs modern fabrials for more information. Please note, before I continue, I do not consider Shardplate as part of the classification of “ancient fabrial” as I believe they are part of the Radiant system. So, Soulcasters and Oathgates Spren seem to be quite happy to go about their functions. But the Oathgate spren talk about being bound: - Oathbringer, Chapter 116 Bound to obey. The Dawnshards were said to be able to “Bind any creature voidish or mortal”. I believe this is how the ancient fabrials were created. The mention of Honor does not discount this, we have absolutely no idea what Honors relationship with the Dawnshards was once they reached Roshar. His words on the subject makes me think he wasn’t exactly against using them. In fact at this point he seems to be their greatest advocate. This is where I think the link between Aimia and the Dawnshards comes in. Kazas interlude mentions: - Oathbringer, Interlude I-04 So Soulcasters were made in Aimia. There are links between Aimians and the Dawnshards. It’s implied the Dawnshards can bind things. Ancient fabrials appear to be made with spren that are bound but willing unlike modern fabrials. This is why I believe the Dawnshards were used by the Aimians to create the ancient fabrials. Oh and as a quick note to end on, here’s a wob for your troubles: This leads me to my final point: 4. Aimias scouring was related to the Dawnshards This is based on all the above theories. We know the Dawnshards are capable of extremely powerful destruction. With the above links between Aimia and the Dawnshards, I cannot see how the scouring could NOT be related to the extremely powerful tools that can be found there. They could have done it to themselves, it could have been a result of a fight, Dai-Gonarthis may have done it all himself. Either way, I think the Scouring and the Dawnshards are intrinsically linked. I hope you enjoyed this theory, I had a ton of fun making it and again, I recommend you listen to the Aimia Shardcast to hear where the first few ideas starting to come from. There are definitely issues when it comes to the timing of things (The Dawnshards being unavailable seems to be unrelated to the Scouring as Honor recorded his visions 2000 years ago and the Scouring seems to have happened much more recent than that) but I think the links between Aimia and the Dawnshards is extremely strong. Disclaimer: I have no idea what the Dawnshards are. They could be shardblades that gift powers, tools like fabrials, spren, people, a horde of cremlings, or chulls. There could be one that grants super powerful Division and one that grants super powerful spiritual Adhesion. The details of what the Dawnshards are and how they operate is a mystery at the moment. Searching “Dawnshards” on returns a wall of RAFOs as this is clearly something Brandon does not want to talk about just yet (The only thing we can infer from his answers is that there’s more than one). This is why I have referred to them as tools or things. Let me know what you guys think. Please poke holes wherever you see them!
  25. I’ve been thinking about these. At first I thought they were just honor blades, but now I think they’re something completely different and most likely predate the other magic we’ve seen. The only info we have on them seems to be that they can bind things and that they destroyed the planet humanity lived on previously. i think many believe the surges(nale bond/honor blades) caused the destruction of humanities former home, but that can’t be true because neither exsisted before humans came to Roshar. Honor also said that the dawnshards caused the destruction of the old planet which means they must be extremely powerful. We still don’t know how many of them there are or what they do specifically, but I have a theory. What if the’re perfect gemstones. Of course they never leak stormlight, but they’ve also been shown to be able to bind one of the unmade. Another one Yleg-nar was trapped inside one and bonded with people when a small gem was swallowed. I’m guessing this gem is another dawnshard. Amaram gain tremendous power after eating the gem and if we assume you can trap large spren ibside them and then use those powers it become obvious how that could destroy a world. Imagine if someone trapped the stormfather and then had complete control over stormlight on roshar. Another possibility is that they can hold multiple spren. What if someone captured spren for all the surges and then consumed it, thereby giving themselves all the radient powers at once. I think uthiru might have/be one of these Dawnshards and the reason it isn’t working is because the spren that powers it is gone. Perhaps the spren the stormfather talked about Dalinar hurting. I’m also assuming that modern fabrials are human attempts to copy the dawnshards just like shardblades are spren attemps to copy honor blades. what do you think?