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Found 19 results

  1. We now know that Bondsmiths existed on Ashyn before the Nahel Bond was discovered and they were able to bind Surges somehow (Surge fabrials, probably) and use Connection to achieve spectacular results. Comparing this description with what the Dawnshards were supposed to do, it seems quite likely that they were simply using them. If so, is it possible that Ba-Ado-Mishram was able to get one somehow and use it to cause the False Desolation? Each Unmade can be mapped (with some fuzziness, of course) to a KR order, with the exception of Bondsmiths. BAM's abilities during the False Desolation, however, seem like a supercharged, Roshar-wide, version of what Bondsmiths can do (providing Connection and Investiture). It was also the first time she showed these powers: the KR weren't sure how she did it ("Ba-Ado-Mishram has somehow Connected with the parsh people") and we know that historically they feared Sja-Anat more. I think it is in the realm of possibility that her original powers were completely unrelated to this, but, against all odds, she was able to obtain a Dawnshard. Maybe it was stolen from Aimia? In such case, the Scouring might have been an attempt to repeat the False Desolation by Dai-Gonarthis
  2. The announcement of Dawnshard's title got me thinking about the nature of the dawnshards (like everyone else here I imagine ) and I think there's a possibility we may not have considered. (I didn't find any older threads talking about this idea, but I apologise if there is one.) We may have made some assumptions about the nature of dawnshards that we shouldn't have. Of the little information we have about dawnshards most of it is 2nd hand and of dubious veracity. In particular I'm not wholly convinced that dawnshards are actually objects. I'm wondering if they're simply dawnsingers who've bonded with highspren. Or a specific order/group thereof. (If that is the case, Venli would be a proto-dawnshard.) Let's review what information on the Dawnshards we actually have. The poem of Ista is probably based on real events, but to a very limited extent. I'd assume there's an element of truth in there or Brandon wouldn't have put it in the book. However, I doubt the in-world author has any idea what dawnshards actually are. Even taken as written it only very loosely implies that the dawnshard is an object and not a person or creature. He could easily be accompanied by or carrying a person. I would guess that it is accurate that dawnshards could bind things, but that's all I'd say with any confidence. It does seem that they are commonly thought of as objects in mythology. But without any actual knowledge it's only natural that people would think of something named x-shards as objects of power. I don't think this quote does much to help or hinder the theory. It tells us the dawnshards seem to be gone or unavailable in some manner and that they would be very helpful in defeating Odium. But that makes sense whether they are objects or singers. Singers bonded with spren of honor & cultivation instead of voidspren or lesser spren are more likely to oppose Odium I would think. This is far and away the most useful quote we have. But even this one could be a little misleading. The Stormfather is relating something Honor said while dying and "raving". And the Stormfather was still coming to full consciousness and says his memories of it were "strange". I don't doubt the direct truth of what the quote says, but it could be misleading beyond that. Firstly, it is unusual but not unheard of to refer to dangerous/powerful people as weapons. So even taking it at face value I don't think this confirms the dawnshards are objects. More interesting is "used to destroy the Tranquiline Halls." and the promise that surgebinders would do the same to Roshar. If my theory is right (which it may not be) that would mean that some Dawnshards had traveled to Ashyn prior to it's destruction, and were involved in that destruction. Which seems a bit of a leap at first, but thinking further it seems likely that some humans or singers had traveled between the worlds before the destruction of Ashyn. I'm not saying the dawnsingers were responsible for Ashyn's destruction; I do think Odium influenced humans were responsible. But these dawnsingers could have been used/participants in what happened. And/or the humans could have attempted to reproduce their powers. If this was the case, that would help explain why Honor and Odium both thought human surgebinders might destroy Roshar. This might be the strongest point against this theory. Though we don't know how biased the account may be. The singers were forbidden to touch those powers, presumably by Honour and/or Cultivation. But we don't know when they were forbidden, they may have been forbidden because of the destruction of Ashyn and have used them before then. We also don't know how long after Ashyn's destruction/the human arrival on Roshar this was written. Though from the little we know it was probably many years. I have to guess that the powers being forbidden happened before the wars and the oathpact. There isn't as much need to forbid it when the spren have already joined the humans, using Odium's power/voidspren is presumably worse. And I doubt the singers cared much what Honor/Cultivation might forbid them from doing after they felt they'd been betrayed by them and started serving Odium. The last line in particular strongly suggests that the higher spren had bonded with singers in the past. I'm not supremely confident in this theory, but I do think it's possible. It also just feels to me like something Brandon might do. Do you think the theory has merit? Or am I way off base. Some other relevant wobs
  3. This is something I came up with at 3 am, so let me know if it gets too crazy Here it goes: We know that Ashyn doesn't currently have any Shard (WoB), but a question if there was ever a Shard there is considered a spoiler (WoB). Ashyn magic wasn't always disease-based (WoB), but used to similar to surgebinding (WoB). Given that Ashyn people used Dawnshards “known to bind any creature voidish or mortal” (Poem of Ista) to destroy their planet and were able to escape it using powers “of spren and Surges” (Eila Stele), it seems certain that there were spren (and therefore probably a Shard) there. Could that Shard be Odium? That seems very unlikely – it would mean that sometime during his Shard killing spree he decided to make a stop (next to a dishardic planet!), Invest there and give people weapons potentially able to harm him (Dawnshards). No, Odium would make a detour to Ashyn only if there was a real threat to him there that needed to be neutralized before taking care of Roshar. That leaves Cultivation and Honor, but as far as we know they've Invested in Roshar before the arrival of humans, so it's unlikely that any of them is responsible for Ashyn magic. My theory is that this Shard was a child of Cultivation and Honor – Unity. It was confirmed that Shards Vessels could have children (WoB) and that being a Shard affects pregnancy (WoB). I assume here that a Shardic child would be considered a Shard with a big asterisk (using terminology from this WoB on Patji), but would still count as two Shards together with their parents (Tanavast + Slammer + Unity = Honor + Cultivation). This way, we still have three Shards overall in the Rosharan system, even though the number of Vessels may not match. Unity would probably have a very atypical childhood (to say the least), so many human concepts (such as gender) could be foreign to them – and this attitude would be shared with their godspren, the Sibling (WoB). It's hard to say if Unity would have their own type of Investiture, but if they used Cultivationlight (WoB) instead, it would explain why we see so little of it compared to Stormlight. Finally, Unity would explain why we see two mixed (Cultivation + Honor) magic systems – Surgebinding was created directly by their Investment in Roshar and fabrials (part of the another magic system per this WoB) were originally developed on Ashyn by Unity and then brought to Roshar by humans. The latter is corroborated by the fact that humans left Ashyn using a type of Oathgate before there were any fabrials on Roshar at all (this WoB, though it's technically not canonized yet due to Spiritual Realm mechanics issues). At the beginning Unity would be underpowered as a Shard, but nothing stops them from travelling across Cosmere. gathering unclaimed Honor/Cultivation Investiture and growing stronger. This would also explain Unity's apparent effect on some of Cosmere's religions (Shu-Keseg concept of unity on Sel, “The One” worshipped by Iriali who later travel to Roshar). This sounds a lot like Autonomy, doesn't it? I think this might set up a future (post–Stormlight) conflict between both Shards, which can be seen as opposing forces. I also believe that at some point during their Cosmere journey, Unity recruited Dysian Aimians (whom we know to be worldhoppers present on many worlds: WoB here and here) as their agents, possibly because of their nature being an actual embodiment of Unity's intent. Anyway, Unity finally brings some humans to the Rosharan system, settles on Ashyn and Invests there, creating a fabrial–based magic system using Dawnshards (probably Unity's splinters, analogically to Honor and Honorblades). What are Dawnshards? I think they're tools for capturing, storing and transforming spren of any kind. The first two are kind of obvious, but what about transformation? We know that in many ways spren behave like wave–functions in quantum mechanics (flamespren study in one of interludes in The Way Of Kings). If so, we should theoretically see things like quantum superposition or Bose–Einstein condensates. In Cosmere terms, it would mean that spren could be merged with each other to create something new. Merging lesser spren associated with a given order of Knights Radiant is already believed by many to be the source of Shardplates. I believe that a similar process, merging of one or many inkspren and lighspren, leads to the creation of unique Oathgate spren (the same mechanism applies to other Surge fabrial spren as well). This could also explain the origin of the Unmade, who were “made, then unmade”. Not created or born. Made – created from other spren by Dawnshards, only to be later corrupted by Odium. For example, Yelig–nar might have originally been an attempt to create a spren able to form Nahel Bond giving all the surges (Rosharan version of lerasium, basically). Re–Shephir seems like a supercharged version of creationspren, Chemoarish – ashspren etc. We know that one Dawnshard is different from the rest (WoB) and that at least one of them is “known to bind any creature voidish or mortal” (Poem of Ista). I believe they're one and the same, and that binding a mortal creature means creating a Cognitive Shadow copy of a person, providing exactly the same form of immortality that the Heralds and the Fused would later use. What is more, this particular Dawnshard seems to be still active on Roshar. That's why Dalinar can be forgiven by Evi during the Battle of Thaylen Field and that's why his second vision of Nohadon is so strange – they are both Cognitive Shadows. The Tranquiline Halls myth in Vorinism is not just a tale of how people left Ashyn – it has additional hidden meaning. Some chosen people don't just go Beyond, they are given some sort of immortality to join the fight with Odium (or be useful to Unity in other ways). I think that's the reason Odium created Moelach. His power seems useless to Odium at first, but he can “seeps into a soul as it breaks apart from the body” (Diagram) and works “at the transition point between realms. When a soul was nearing the Tranquiline Halls” (Hessi's Mythica). He can prevent a person from being captured by a Dawnshard and extract information from them (something the Sleepless of Aimia are afraid in Kaza's interlude in Oathbringer). Moelach's purpose is to search for Dawnshards and interfere with their activity. It's hard to tell if Cognitive Shadows can be merged just as spren, but if they do, that might potentially explain the weird nature of Cusicesh the Protector with it's multitude of rapidly changing human faces. The special Dawnshard also provides an explanation for another question – how Unity could survive their fight with Odium. Before Ashyn was destroyed, Unity's followers (the Sleepless) escaped to Roshar with two Dawnshards. One of them, used for creating Surge fabrials, ended up in Aimia (WoB). The other one, storing a copy of Unity's mind, was hidden by Cultivation (we know that her magic can hide things from Odium – Lift hides from Odium in one of Dalinar's visions). Where such a thing could be stored? My best bet is the Origin of Storms. This place is clearly important, as indicated by Puuli's interlude and Wandersail story (also, Cusicesh always looks in that direction). If the Highstorm really originates there (or, more likely, simply recharges there), the place must be full of Investiture to power a device storing Cognitive Shadows of a Shard and a great number of people. Also, as Investiture resists Investiture, the Origin would be very hard to spy on by Odium's forces. As a result, Odium isn't aware that Unity is alive until the Thaylen Field (his future sight is useless here, as Cultivation and Unity are together equally good at it, or even better) and ends up screaming "No, we killed you. We killed you!". tl;dr version: Unity is the child of Cultivation of Honor and the original Shard on Ashyn. They created the first fabrial–based magic system utilizing Dawnshards that can (A) bind and merge spren into more powerful, unique spren (e.g. Surge fabrial spren) and (B) create Cognitive Shadow copies of people. Using the latter, a Cognitive Shadow of Unity survived the fight with Odium and was hiding with Cultivation's help, planning to strike Odium and finally revealing themselves during the Battle of Thaylen Field.
  4. A random thought: Could Cultivation's vessel's name be Dawn as in Dawn's Shadow, Dawnshards, Dawnsingers? Don't have time to think about it any more as I'm at work. It just crossed my mind. Please discuss ;-)
  5. Hello everyone! Welcome to another “Theory that feels right based on limited information” by OJ! For those that don’t listen to the Shardcast, we recently discussed Aimia and managed to spend the majority of the runtime talking about the Dawnshards. I went into that podcast having never connected the two, but based on the discussions we had (And they were some good discussions, I do recommend listening to it!) I have come out fully believing Aimia’s history and fate are tied to the Dawnshards. Warning, this theory has a basis in theories. I am going to outline the initial theories that have evidence for them, then follow them with theories based on those theories. First things first: 1. The Dawnshards were involved in the destruction of Ashyn. - Oathbringer, Chapter 113 In his dying days, Honor spoke of the Dawnshards. Due to the wording of this quote, I can’t tell if this is a claim by dying Honor or something the Stormfather is adding himself. Either way, it is claimed they were the weapons used to destroy the Tranquiline Halls. As we know, the Vorin Tranquilline Halls are Ashyn (Although culturally I believe they were originally Roshar). This matches up with one of the few other quotes we have about the Dawnshards (Did you know they’ve only been mentioned 4 times in the whole of SLA so far?): - Way of Kings, Chapter 75 Honor clearly wishes that the current crop of Radiants had access to the Dawnshards. One interpretation of this quote, which I am using in this theory, is that they are something which grants great power. This interpretation is supported by another quote about the Dawnshards: - Way of Kings, Chapter 36 Epigraph Emphasis mine. Whatever they are, if this legend is correct, the Dawnshards sound like something that is very powerful. So, this is my first statement. I then believe the Dawnshards were brought to Roshar by the Ashynites. 2. The Dawnshards were brought to Roshar by the Ashynites More specifically, the Dawnshards were brought to Roshar by the Ashynites and somehow ended up in Aimia. This one is a little more shaky, but check out this Kaza interlude quote: - Oathbringer, Interlude I-04 Emphasis mine. Oh boy, this Aimian sure does want to protect Aimia real bad. What secret could possibly be so great as to end worlds? Well, how about the items used to end a world? I believe the secret that this Aimian is trying to protect is the existence/location of the Dawnshards. This is the most explicit link, but in my opinion there are two other things that link Aimia and the Dawnshards. First is what I believe to be Brandon trickery. The Oathbringer quote above (The one from the Stormfather about Honor) from Chapter 113, the epigraph for that chapter? It’s this: - Oathbringer, Chapter 113, Epigraph So again, we have 4 mentions of Dawnshards total in 3 books. The epigraph for the chapter that tells us the most we’ve heard about the Dawnshards so far explicitly mentions Aimia. This isn’t the only one. Less likely to be Brandon trickery and might just be a coincidence is Way of Kings Chapter 36. This is the chapter with the “Bind any creature voidish or mortal” epigraph. In this chapter, Aimia is mentioned again. This one is just an offhand remark from Jasnah so seems less likely: - Way of Kings, Chapter 36 This one I’m less keen on Brandon messing with us, but it’s there. My second link between Dawnshards and Aimia is actually my third theory (I did warn you about theories in theories). 3. The Dawnshards were used to create the ancient fabrials This is based on Jofwus idea about ancient fabrials. For a quick rundown, ancient fabrials like Soulcasters and Oathgates seem to use willing, sentient spren whilst modern fabrials use trapped spren against their will. Please check out Jofwus theory on ancient vs modern fabrials for more information. Please note, before I continue, I do not consider Shardplate as part of the classification of “ancient fabrial” as I believe they are part of the Radiant system. So, Soulcasters and Oathgates Spren seem to be quite happy to go about their functions. But the Oathgate spren talk about being bound: - Oathbringer, Chapter 116 Bound to obey. The Dawnshards were said to be able to “Bind any creature voidish or mortal”. I believe this is how the ancient fabrials were created. The mention of Honor does not discount this, we have absolutely no idea what Honors relationship with the Dawnshards was once they reached Roshar. His words on the subject makes me think he wasn’t exactly against using them. In fact at this point he seems to be their greatest advocate. This is where I think the link between Aimia and the Dawnshards comes in. Kazas interlude mentions: - Oathbringer, Interlude I-04 So Soulcasters were made in Aimia. There are links between Aimians and the Dawnshards. It’s implied the Dawnshards can bind things. Ancient fabrials appear to be made with spren that are bound but willing unlike modern fabrials. This is why I believe the Dawnshards were used by the Aimians to create the ancient fabrials. Oh and as a quick note to end on, here’s a wob for your troubles: This leads me to my final point: 4. Aimias scouring was related to the Dawnshards This is based on all the above theories. We know the Dawnshards are capable of extremely powerful destruction. With the above links between Aimia and the Dawnshards, I cannot see how the scouring could NOT be related to the extremely powerful tools that can be found there. They could have done it to themselves, it could have been a result of a fight, Dai-Gonarthis may have done it all himself. Either way, I think the Scouring and the Dawnshards are intrinsically linked. I hope you enjoyed this theory, I had a ton of fun making it and again, I recommend you listen to the Aimia Shardcast to hear where the first few ideas starting to come from. There are definitely issues when it comes to the timing of things (The Dawnshards being unavailable seems to be unrelated to the Scouring as Honor recorded his visions 2000 years ago and the Scouring seems to have happened much more recent than that) but I think the links between Aimia and the Dawnshards is extremely strong. Disclaimer: I have no idea what the Dawnshards are. They could be shardblades that gift powers, tools like fabrials, spren, people, a horde of cremlings, or chulls. There could be one that grants super powerful Division and one that grants super powerful spiritual Adhesion. The details of what the Dawnshards are and how they operate is a mystery at the moment. Searching “Dawnshards” on returns a wall of RAFOs as this is clearly something Brandon does not want to talk about just yet (The only thing we can infer from his answers is that there’s more than one). This is why I have referred to them as tools or things. Let me know what you guys think. Please poke holes wherever you see them!
  6. I’ve been thinking about these. At first I thought they were just honor blades, but now I think they’re something completely different and most likely predate the other magic we’ve seen. The only info we have on them seems to be that they can bind things and that they destroyed the planet humanity lived on previously. i think many believe the surges(nale bond/honor blades) caused the destruction of humanities former home, but that can’t be true because neither exsisted before humans came to Roshar. Honor also said that the dawnshards caused the destruction of the old planet which means they must be extremely powerful. We still don’t know how many of them there are or what they do specifically, but I have a theory. What if the’re perfect gemstones. Of course they never leak stormlight, but they’ve also been shown to be able to bind one of the unmade. Another one Yleg-nar was trapped inside one and bonded with people when a small gem was swallowed. I’m guessing this gem is another dawnshard. Amaram gain tremendous power after eating the gem and if we assume you can trap large spren ibside them and then use those powers it become obvious how that could destroy a world. Imagine if someone trapped the stormfather and then had complete control over stormlight on roshar. Another possibility is that they can hold multiple spren. What if someone captured spren for all the surges and then consumed it, thereby giving themselves all the radient powers at once. I think uthiru might have/be one of these Dawnshards and the reason it isn’t working is because the spren that powers it is gone. Perhaps the spren the stormfather talked about Dalinar hurting. I’m also assuming that modern fabrials are human attempts to copy the dawnshards just like shardblades are spren attemps to copy honor blades. what do you think?
  7. So, I haven't done much research on this but I wanted your guys thoughts on where the other honorblades are. I know nine of the Heralds left theirs when the Oathpact was abandoned, with Taln keeping his. Szeth has an honorblade, Nale has his own (presumably) that he uses to hunt people bonded with spren, and Taln brought his own with him when he returned. Thats three of the ten, do the rest reside with the Shin? And if they do why are the Shin in control of 7 honorblades? Another thing on dawnshards, I was reading another thread about how the Parshendi could be dawnsingers due to their singing language and the fact they predate humans on Roshar (I think). If so could Eshonais shardblade be a dawnshard?
  8. Long time troller, rare poster here. Just read the prologue posted here for Oathbringer, and had some thoughts I haven't seen mentioned. The two black spheres that Gavilar mentions (and shows one to Eshonai), let's assume that these spheres are holding 2 of the Unmade, holding the "Parshendi gods" Eshonai is so fearful of. . Regarding dawnshards, Tanavast mentions in one of his visions to Dalinar that "without the Dawnshards, you're doomed". What if these spheres are two of the lost Dawnshards, the purpose of which was to trap the Unmade ("known to bind any creature voidish or mortal"), which is part of the ending of a desolation? Other posters here seem to think that the dawnshards are like shardblades, and while I agree that each contains large amounts of investiture that doesn't mean that this would take on the same form. I also assume that since we're in Roshar that there are 10 Dawnshards, and probably 9 unmade (since 9 is the number of Odium), which leaves one dawnshard to spare for purposes of ending the desolations. Also, has anyone thought that perhaps the Dawnsingers were the original "god spren" that the 9 Splinters of Odium corrupted into the Unmade? If this has any merit to it, could there be one dawnsinger left that remains uncorrupted? Maybe these are all just crazy theories. I'll leave to the more versed on this board to chime in
  9. Thinking about this epigraph quote: The word 'bind' suggests this isn't something like a Shardblade, a weapon in the normal sense. It sounds more like how spren are trapped in a fabrial. Now, there doesn't seem to be any way to bind 'mortal' people or animals into a fabrial, but this quote seems pretty mythified given the "steps crafted for Heralds, ten strides tall apiece" - we know that Heralds are actually normal-human-sized. So maybe the Dawnshards are a vague, mythical memory of a fabrial that could trap either normal or void spren - with the 'normal' spren being turned into "mortal creatures" as the details were forgotten? Alternately, maybe the Dawnshard created a two-way bond -- maybe it was something like a Meta-Fabrial that could create and control bonds between spren and Physical realm life. The Ryshadium don't seem to be true Roshar natives, yet they have inherent spren bonds - maybe they were created with a Dawnshard.
  10. Not sure if I'm the first person to notice this but I haven't seen any other discussions or WOBs about this (admittedly I've been off the shard for a while) so I thought maybe I'm the first. OK so I was reading the preview prologue for Oathbringer and I happened across this (important parts highlighted) For a while I didn't think much of it but then I remembered a little tidbit about the dawnshards. That was when something clicked and my mind put the two together. Now this isn't definitive but I think this at least implies that the black sphere was a dawnshard and that it's in use, holding a voidspreen and based on the way Gavilar says "hold a god" it's a powerful one. Granted this doesn't explain everything like how could the dawnshards bind a mortal, are they just regular spheres or is there more to them than that. And most importantly of all why does Honor imply that they're gone? One last possibility would be that the dawnshards really are gone and Gavilar only has two ordinary spheres which house ordinary voidspreen, however Gavilar was aware of what the dawnshards were and that was why he told Estonia the bit about special gemstones even though he doesn't have one. Well anyway that's my theory I hope you enjoyed it.
  11. I just completed a reread of TWOK, my first after finishing all of the other works in the Cosmere, and had a thought about the Dawnshards... The only things we know for sure about the Dawnshards is that: They are not the same thing as regular shards on Roshar (shardblades), nor are they they same thing as the Honorblades which were held by the Heralds. -- WOB They played a huge role in protecting humanity on Roshar from the desolations in the past, and Honor is worried about the fact that they are now lost -- Dalinar's final vision in TWOK They can bind "any creature voidish or mortal" which apparently is a special property -- Poem of Ista Given all this info, it seems to me that most people thing the Dawnshards were some sort of ancient Spren that could bind to voidish and/or mortal beings that conferred unique powers that are now lost. Perhaps the people these Dawnshards bound were the Dawnsingers. It's a great theory, but I've got another, simpler one... What if the "Dawnshards" are actually just another way to describe Shards of Adonalsium? I started the Cosmere with the Stormlight Archives, so it has always confused me just how many different things are described as "Shards." What if, on Roshar, the BIG shards, the "complete" Shards of Adonalsium (ie Honor, Cultivation, Odium), are referred to as the Dawnshards in order to differentiate them from different, regular "shards" which are actually shards of shards (spren). Here's why I think this might fit: They are the shards that existed on Roshar at the "dawn" of creation, ergo they are the "Dawnshards" "Talk of them was obviously prevalent among those recording the early mythologies" They can bind any creature voidish or mortal. As far as we know, there aren't any limitations on picking up or holding a Shard of Adonalsium They existed some time ago and played a part in helping humanity fight off the desolations (Honor and Cultivation vs. Odium) But they are lost now (Honor and Cultivation are dead/splintered), and Honor is worried that humanity can't fight off the desolations (Odium) without them The magic system on Roshar seems somewhat different in present times (post-splintering?) than in Dalinar's visions of the past (pre-splintering?) If I'm right, then this gives the following quote form the Poem of Ista new meaning... Someone tried to hold on to a Shard of Adonalsium, probably Honor, presumably after its original bearer died. They must not have been able to hold onto it because we know now that Honor is splintered. Maybe this is why the person in the poem had to "crawl" up the steps. What do you guys think? Poke holes in this for me...
  12. We know almost nothing about the Dawnshards, so obviously this theory isn't built on any concrete evidence. But here's my thought process... In Dalinar's vision, Honor himself used the word "Dawnshard," so it's clearly an official, accurate term. He also used the word "shards" for the shardblades of the Radiants. So there would seem to be a connection. Suppose Dawnshards are "shards" in the same sense as the blades. Spren. Powerful, ancient spren, sent by the Almighty to aid mankind. Which is exactly how Vorins describe the Dawnsingers. But that belief could be a product of its time. In the Age of Solitude (when SLA takes place), most people don't understand that shards are spren. So I'd theorize that the Dawnshards and the Dawnsingers are the same thing. (Or, potentially, that the Dawnsingers were humans, bonded with the Dawnshard-spren.) Now here's the weird part. So Honor says we are "without the Dawshards." But if we don't have the Dawnshards, what happened to them? They can't have been destroyed; they're splinters, pure investiture, which cannot be created or destroyed. They might have been killed, like the common blade-spren, but that wouldn't make them gone. They'd still be around, at least partially usable, and potentially even revivable. I guess they could be 'splintered' beyond repair, the same way Shards (of Adonalsium) are splintered. But as far as I know, that doesn't happen to spren. It could, in theory, but let's assume it hasn't. What if Honor lost the Dawnshards because Odium took them? Took them, tortured them, infected them with his own malignant investiture, and twisted them into monstrous agents of hatred and destruction. Ergo... the Unmade. This might explain the name "Unmade." Honor made them as beautiful, benevolent Dawnshards, and Odium un-made them, ruining Honor's work. It also makes sense when you consider the names of the known unmade. Nergaoul and Moelach are clearly named for the Mesopotamian gods Nergal and Moloch. These 'gods' are identified as demons in Judeo-Christian mythology, and demons, generally, are fallen angels. And what are the Dawnsingers, if not angels? Thoughts?
  13. So, this is just a quick theory about Dawnshards. First of all, here's what we know about them: They can "bind any creature, voidish or mortal" They disappeared some time before Tanavast recorded his "journal" Tanavast believes that they can be of great help in fighting Odium There is also this tidbit: Analyzing the Poem of Ista, I propose that Dawnshards were held in the user's hands when being used, as opposed to being worn like Shardplate, but of course we're not sure. Next, let's look at all the other terms on Roshar that contain the word "dawn": Dawnsingers Dawnchant (an ancient language that now survives only in the Vanrial song) Dawncities (which, as Kabsal showed, feature cymatic patterns) It's already obvious where I'm getting at: I think the Dawnshards were magical musical instruments used by certain heroes of the Heraldic epochs (perhaps the Dawnsingers, or perhaps some other group entirely). There! I've said it. Now that I read that, it almost seems rather silly in its simplicity ("Dawnsingers and Dawnshards both have 'dawn' in them, so they must be related? LOL, you silly skaa..."). But it does shine a new light on Kaladin's encounter with Hoid. While I don't necessarilty think that Hoid's flute is a Dawnshard nor that Kaladin will become a Dawnsinger, I do think that Hoid might be preparing Kaladin to one day rediscover these magical artifacts so that he may "return to men the Shards they once bore". Also, magical music sounds more likely to "bind" creatures than, say, slashing at them with magical swords. (As you can see, I am highly skeptical of the idea that the Dawnshards were some sort of Shardblade.) Edit: Given what we've seen in Words of Radiance, I now also suspect that these musical instruments called Dawnshards are also spren, and somehow these spren (Dawnsingers?) have "died", or at least have disappeared for some reason.
  14. Hi there, This is my first post so it might have already been covered, if so thats my bad. It covers a few of the books so feel free to correct me if it is contradicted somewhere or if you have things to add. I was thinking about how Odium splintered the shard of Honor. I think that the honorblades that the Heralds wielded are actually the remnants of what is left of the shard of honor. This is why they can grant magically abilities to someone who previously could not access magic on Roshar. Also I wonder if they were all collected if they could reforge the Shard of Honor. If this is true then it would mean that the shards of Devotion and Dominion would have items that were made from their remnants. Brandon has said that the Aons inside of the Seons are splinters of Devotion so what are the splinters of Dominion? Also what would happen if a splinter of Devotion, a Seon, and a splinter of Honor, an honorblade, were combined like when Sazed combined the shards of Ruin and Preservation in the Mistborn series?
  15. Hi everyone, this ir my first post and I´m not a native english speaker so please be patient! I was just rereading WoK´s last chapter, In the top room. For those who not remember, is the one in which Dalinar learns the Almighty is dead. This specific quote caught my attention: There´s also another reference, in one of the epigraphs: What is a Dawnshard??? What does it mean to "bind any creature"? And why is it so important? This is killing me, please tell me what you think
  16. So we have a pretty good idea of the Heralds and the Honorblades now, but what information do we have of the Dawnsingers and Dawnshards? What were they? My best guess is that they're actually Shardbearers that do manual labor rather than fight Voidbringers. I think the Dawnsingers were servants of Honor, like the Heralds, but they used their Dawnshards (Shardtools, maybe?) to help the general populace. If I remember correctly, the Palanaeum in Kharbranth was reportedly built by the Dawnsingers. This would make sense, then. Does anyone else have other theories or information that I missed?
  17. Did the Heralds have Dawnshards or Honorblades, or are the 2 same? And why do people say that Szeth has an Honorblade?
  18. This is the first thread I’ve started and I haven’t read every other thread so I pre-apologize if any of this has been discussed or disproven elsewhere. I typed this up and it was pretty long so I'm using spoilers to hide my explanations for some points to give you the option of the short or long version. 1. Shardblades mimick Honor Blades, and Shardplate mimicks Dawnshards. 2. Cultivation's name is Dawn or some variation thereof. 3. The Parshendi call themselves listeners, they listen to a lot of songs it would make sense if they were "listening" to Dawnsingers. 4. Parshendi are of Cultivation, Jasnah is wrong about the voidbringers. 5. The WOK endpage with the non-KR surgebinding chart in my opinion is a Formbinding chart. Cultivation is a logical guess for the woman around the edges (there is a thread on this but I don’t have the link.) A. The following quote from WOK really stood out to me on my re-read from the chapter where bridge four first goes in the chasms and Kaldin is looking at a Parshendi knife B. The Glyphs for KR orders are like hilts to the Honorblades. I think that the Glyphs that correspond to orders on the second chart look like they could be made into stylized decorations for helms on shardplate. C. This is my poor drawing example, to try and visualize what I mean for A and B above using examples of the chart's glyphs to show a shardplate figure with wings and they glyphs as part of a helm. D. I apologize for my poor sourcing I really need to make a list but I read in another thread that Brandon said one of the ways of accessing the magic system has a connection to Fabrials. Fabrials work by trapping spren inside a mechanical device, Listeners work by trapping spren inside a living organism… connection made. Wrapping it up, I promise, so how does this all connect the Dawnsingers/shards to the Parshendi/Listeners. My current theory is that the Dawnshards where a mechanism by which the Parshendi/Listeners could be forced into forms and controlled. So someone wearing/possessing a dawnshard direct the movements/control all the Listeners for example in stormform, most likely using a song. This would mean Listeners weren't free and I could understand that if the Dawnsingers or Dawnshards came back there would be no more freedom for the Parshendi/Listeners. In one of Dalinar’s visions, Honor mentions not doing well without the Dawnshards. If Gavilar grabbed onto this idea rather than the idea of refounding the knights radiant he might have found a dawnshard (small mysterious bead/rock anyone). Gavilar tells the Parshendi his intention to bring back Dawnshards and Dawnsingers. They understand the import and decide to assasinate him as bringing back the Dawnsingers would mean a loss of freedom. We know that Plate can be regrown, so what if the bead/rock Gavilar gave Szeth is the seed of a Dawnshard that would become a magnificent set of Plate if fed enough stormlight? A lot of this is probably wrong but I’d love to hear thoughts form others.
  19. Having read through TWoK several times I can describe the information on the Heralds as sketchy at best. Out of the 10 I believe only half are named directly and the name of the name varies on the teller. For example in the prologue the heralds are Kalak and Jezrien whereas in the prologue they are called Kelek and Jezerezeh. This is obviously due to the gap in time or change of language. However, if one looks at the ARS Arcanum one notes there are ten essences each with a name /number which seems to correlate to the name or names of a herald. Using this theory, the 9th essence Tanat would depict Talenel or Talenelat (again different names, same herald). So where is this all headed? Shalash. What? As Szeth is passing one of the corridors he notes a row of statutes depictig the heralds of Vorin theology. However, Szeth notes that one of the heralds is missing. Why would this be inserted? If it was just to introduce culture or religion, why would one be missing? Furthermore why explain that Szeth thinks it odd since Gavillar is a devout Vorin constituent? Question: Why is Shalash's statue missing? I have entertained ideas that he could have been the Herald to suggest breaking the Oathpact but am uncertain. However, before Gavillar died he was big on the Way of Kings and this could have been the reason that Gavillar removed the statue. I believe something in the book caused him to remove the statue as there would be no other alternative I can see for removing Shalash's statue. Why is this important? Dalinar is following Gavillar's footsteps by reading the WoK. So one could assume that he will come to the same conclusion of his brother. This could prove to be even more significant if the Oath pact is reestablished which seems somewhat likely seeing Dalinar leading like Jezrien or Kaladin protecting like Jezrien and healing like Vav or Shallan/Jasnah being learned like Nan even Szeth correlates to Chach who is brave and obedient. This brings up the additional discussion of whether or not there were female Heralds. I would say yes since on the opening inside cover you see ten faces surrounding the border of Roshar and the Hourglass of Vorin Theology and some are definitely feminine. Does any of this indicate that Shalash was acting under Odium's influence to break up the Oathpact? ?? That is pure speculation, but again why would Gavillar exclude Shalash one of his "gods." Additionally, along the lines of heralds the hourglass depicts 10 major symbols which I believe correlate to an essence, a herald, and a Dawnblade. If you look at the front cover of the hard bound book one notes a blade. The hilt of this blade corresponds to one of the major symbols on the inside of the front cover which leads me to the conclusion that the major symbols are Dawnblades and the minor ones correspond to different types of Shardblades and plates respectively. Also, I find it odd that the back cover of the book says there are 4 for whom we watch when this world seems to based off of tens. Is it possible that these four will join into the Oathpact to bring the number to 5 which also appears in the book. Indirectly related to the Heralds is Gavillar's final words to Dalinar through Szeth "you must find the most important words a man can say." This could be interpreted as a reference to the WoK, the creed of the Knights Radiant, the next book WoR, or a combination. I believe it refers to all of three, specifically in context of the next book. Dalinar-- where does his supernatural use of shards come from? ex. fighting the chasmfiend. The only conclusion I can come to is the Old Magic which will if true certainly come to fruition in the next book. And as a side point why would Dalinar visit the Old Magic later in life since it occurred after the death of his wife. Who knows? It is all speculation from here. Hope this post has been interesting or helpful. My ,main points are with the Heralds and correlating them to characters and essences as well as the lack of Shalash.