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Found 2 results

  1. What follows is my current theory on how the 10 Heralds became the 10 fool's through the coarse of the Desolations. I will update this post as it evolves. I will try to provide links to all WOB. Quotes will come from the kindle versions of the books via cut and paste. I will list book, chapter, and location number. Bold will be my emphasis. Italics will be possible contradictory evidence. Number 18 here From Reddit Fantasy Bookclub Q&A with Brandon Sanderson Feb 28th, 2011 We will start with this quote which shows us all Heralds were in WOK. First, the Desolations occurred when the Heralds were sent back to Roshar after one of them broke under the torture of Odium. Second, each Herald is associated with a primary and secondary Divine Attribute. (Possibly primary from Honor, Secondary from Cultivation?) Third, the torture does not happen in the physical realm. It occurs in either the cognitive, or more likely the spiritual realm. Fourth, when Odium breaks a Herald, he is literally breaking part of that Heralds spiritual connection to the Divine Attribute. Fifth, Odium's goal was to break all the Heralds and bring about the the Everstorm, allowing him to shatter Honor and Cultivation. Sixth, breaking the Divine Attributes shifted them towards something more compatible with Odium and less compatible with Honor. This resulted in the attributes associated with the 10 Fool's. Number 19 in this WOB, says each is uniquely insane. NOTE: One of the biggliest issues with this theory is not knowing the 10 Fools attributes. Two Fools are named. Two have attributes. Cabine - He acts like a child although he is an adult. TWOK chapter 37, page 593, location 10668 Eshu - He speaks of things he does not understand in front of those who do. WOR chapter 71, page 593, location 16877 One issue I have here is that the 2 Heralds I would link these two too are both female. Paliah and Battar. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1) We have a WOB on this. Not a confirmation, but along those lines. 2) Herald. Primary Divine Attribute. Secondary Divine Attribute. Jezrien. Protecting. Leading Nale. Just. Confident Chanarach. Brave. Obedient Vedel. Loving. Healing Paliah. Learned. Giving Shalash. Creative. Honest Battar. Wise. Careful Kalak. Resolute. Builder Talenel. Dependable. Resourceful Ishar. Pious. Guiding 3) Since Odium was attempting to break the Heralds focus on their Divine Attribute, the torture most likely took place in the spiritual realm. The spren would probably know something if it took place in the cognitive realm. One thing pointing to the cognitive realm though is the fact that Taln appeared covered in condensation much like a shardblade. 4) By breaking the Herald, Odium shifted their Primary attribute to closer align with his shard and align less with Honors. This usually resulted in an almost inversion of the attribute. SPECIFICALLY I THINK ONLY THE PRIMARY ATTRIBUTE WAS BROKEN/TWISTED. Below I will show what I think the attribute shifted to after the Devine attribute. Herald. Primary Divine Attribute. Secondary Divine Attribute. Jezrien. Protecting. (Submission) Leading Nale. Just. (Arbitrary)(Judgement) Confident Chanarach. Brave. Obedient Vedel. Loving. Healing Paliah. Learned. Giving Shalash. Creative. (Destructive) Honest Battar. Wise. Careful Kalak. Resolute. (Weak-willed) Builder Talenel. Dependable. (Erratic) Resourceful Ishar. Pious. (Traitorous) Guiding These are based off of what we have seen or heard in the books so far. These are not perfect words, but the 17th shard manymind will probably come up with better. There are some subtle indications that only 9 of the 10 fool's have a strong history or mythology. Here is one concerning Lyft and pancakes. I think I subconsciously connected Lyft's silly quest to eat all 10 Pancakes with the 10 fool's. Research could not find a direct correlation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jezrien gives up on protecting humanity personally, submits to the Will of the group, and sacrifices Talenel to uphold the entire oathpact. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Nale shifts from Just- working within the accepted standards of right and wrong to Arbitrary- following the rule of law without regards to morality.....he goes straight lawful evil. From Edgedancer Chapter 9, page 596 Arcanum Unbound, location 8565 Judgement not Justice. From Edgedancer Chapter 9, page 596 Arcanum Unbound, location 8565 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shalash is pretty clear with her running around destroying art, and significantly art that depicts her and other heralds. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kalak is in no way resolute when Jezrien meets him. He is in fact very weak willed, confessing that he cannot go back. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Talenel (if it really is him) comes back a broken man, highly erratic and unable to perform his duties as the Herald of War. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ishar formed the Knights Radiant originally, he led the Bondsmiths. He was also the one who promulgated the traitorous idea that 1 Herald could support the Oathpact. From Edgedancer: And And ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 5) We know there were not literally 99 desolation. I suspect there were 9. One each time Odium broke a Herald. Then the next time that Herald would not be tortured as hard so that about her would break first. Nine also being the number of Odium I believe would work well with this. After the Oathpact was discarded, Odium let humanity rewrite Roshar's history and religion in preparation for the Final Desolation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 6) The corruption of the 9 Heralds weakened Honor, but the Knights Radiant provided some support, until the Day of Requience when they abandoned all their oaths. Honor shattered shortly after. I have to go back and find some more quotes and WOB to fully support some of this, but I will edit them in as I find them.
  2. Ok, at the beginning I"ll mention that I'm new to this site (discovered it at the beginning of this week) and generally to Brandon's work (I'm on my second re-read of WoR, I also read WoK twice, but not any other book - those were his first works I've come across), so I hope you won't mind much that there are any things I don't know I've seen that we have WoB that by now all of the Heralds appeared somehow in the books, though I've already discovered how many theories are there about them, so little is known or sure (and that's what makes it all interesting). Of course we know about Nale and I definitely do agree with the theory of Shalash being Baxil's mistress, but alost nothing is sure about the others. I've seen theories about Jezrien, Pailiah and propably few others (I didn't yet go through half of the forum, so I may not know...). But I've done a search and found almost nothing about Chana. And I don't mean just theories of her current whereabouts, but anything at all about her. Now, I must admit that Chana is my favourite Herald, even if we know next to nothing about her. It definitely has something to do with her association with the essence Spark (rubies, fire and so on - I'm completely for such things ), but mostly it's about the order of Releasers, which seems the most interesting to me (along with Windrunners - but Releasers have in my opinion better attributes, and personally I think I'd like to be one of them). So since I like her so much, I tried to find her in the books. I know I may lack some information or the insight of someone accustomed to finding things in cosmere works, but I decided to try anyway. Well, here goes my theory: what if Chana is Liss? I know it may be rather far-fetched, especially since I don't have very concrete proofs (but on the other hand I didn't find anything that would rule out that possibility - let me know if there is something about that I missed or misunderstood). Anyway, there go my arguments in support of this theory: I think I'm safe to say that it's widely believed that currently the Heralds are rather twisted versions of themselves. One of Chana's attributes is bravery, which brings to mind (at least to mine ) the idea of straightforwardly going against the enemy. Assasination doesn't seem brave in that issue so it would fit into the "twisted Heralds" concept. Another of Chana's attributes is obedience. This one would actually fit - in a way assasins obey the orders of those who hire them (and Liss didn't seem to defy Jasnah's will). There is also the matter of Szeth - I don't have the book on me right now, so I'm not sure about the actual quote, but Liss mentioned that she felt there was something off about him. If my assumption is correct, then maybe she somehow sensed the Honorblade he had? (I don't know if that's even possible among the Heralds, but I think that maybe they had some means to identify each other or their Blades) That would be it, as there is little information about either Chana or Liss. I know it's not very solid evidence, more like just some speculation, but maybe there is something in it? I don't think I saw anywhere in the books anyone else whom I've thought of possibly being Chana. I'm not sure about this, but I've seen somewhere (maybe on this forum?) that all of the Heralds attended the feast in the prologue (which would fit into my theory), but it's likely I'm mistaken on this. Besides I don't know how to explain the fact that Liss apparently posseses a Shardblade in the light of my theory (maybe she attracted a spren, maybe she won the Blade somehow, or maybe it's her own Honorblade? I honestly don't know, there is nothing to support any of those claims). But on the other hand I didn't find any real evidence against my idea... Well, what do you think about it? Is there any chance of Liss actually being Chana? Maybe there is not enough evidence as of yet about that to say anything, or maybe I overlooked something important that would prove me wrong? I'd really like to know other opinions, especially from those with more knowledge about Brandon Sanderson's works