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  1. The divine Breath of a Returned seems to be very weird. When it is given away, it heals the person instantly, and yet the person doesn't instantly hit the Fifth Heightening. Is all the Investiture used up in the healing? Could it really take 2000 Breaths worth of Investiture just to heal a tongue. Or does Endowment make it so that the Investiture is returned to her after the healing. I also wonder if a Returned with 2000 normal Breaths could survive without the divine Breath. Any WoB or theories on any of this?
  2. Hoid basically states on p. 432 and 436 that the father machine is awakened. Where the heck did the scholars on this planet get breath, and learn about how to use it? Or did they manage to awaken with other investiture, and we've only heard about doing it with breath so far? I think I remember hearing a while ago that Vasher learned to keep himself alive with stormlight but couldn't awaken with it. Is that incorrect? Is it relevant?
  3. We see that Drabs are more susceptible to disease, however it is possible that the diseases are worse on Nalthis, or humans on Nalthis evolved to have a less good immune system since their Breaths helped protect them. Or humans on Nalthis with 1 Breath are just more resistant to disease then other humans. Any WoB?
  4. Just something that struck me while I was designing a magic system for my Mercy world on the Combined Shard names thread. let's say there is an Aluminum Ferring on Nalthis that has a lot of Breaths, called Joe Breath-Haver. If Joe so chooses, he can store away his Identity and then Awaken something, so that anyone who knows can take the Breaths from the Awakened Construct. There exists also on Nalthis a Friend of Joe's, called Bob Stealsalot. Bob is very Realmatically knowledgeable and knows what Joe is doing. So Bob, who would like some Breaths, asks Joe to prove that he can create Awakened Constructs in a way so anyone can retrieve the Breaths. Joe obliges, but before he can Awaken anything, Bob slaps him in the face and says "Your Breath to mine". Since Joe's Breaths are currently Identitiless, they obey Bob's Command and all go to him. Bob then runs away cackling, having just committed literal Identity theft. Is there anything stopping this from actually happening?
  5. Hey Guys, Just was re-reading Warbreaker and came across a couple questions. If its a guaranteed thing that when you transfer breath you are required to give all your breath away at once and cannot separate it (like give one at a time), why cant you just put some breath into something that doesn't need a ton of breath to awaken, and then give your remaining breath to someone and retrieve the breath from whatever you awakened. That way you could essentially separate the breath. Working like this with another person, separation of breath would be relatively easy. My second question was that is each persons breath unique? Like if you have your breath, is it distinguishable if you swapped it with a different one?
  6. Most people on Nalthis don't have a lot of breath. The baseline is that everyone has one breath. I imagine even among those who can't afford to buy breath, there's some variation in this. There's drabs of course, who sold their breath to the returned. But I also have to imagine it's pretty common practice for people to pass on their breath to family or friends when they die and that cultural customs kind of built up around this with it being common practice for people to stick close to their loved ones who are sick. So it probably isn't too unlikely that even every day people have access to two, three, even a dozen breaths if they're lucky that have built up overtime. (Though of course, selling breath to get through hard times probably limits build up and contributes to the rich and returned being able to get them more easily, like we see). All this is to say, it wouldn't be uncommon for people to have access to a couple breaths that they can do stuff with. And everyone, who hasn't sold or otherwise given up their breath, has access to at least one. So what are some commands you think everyday people might be able to use with their one or two or so breaths that would be useful to them? One example of a known one-breath command is of course the creation of lifeless, though this is a bit of an odd one since you can't retrieve the breath afterwards. So while it's possible someone might see it worth their while to create a lifeless to have an extra set of hands helping out, it probably isn't the norm. But what about more average, very simple to commands? One possibility is you might be able to use a breath as a timer. Perhaps you could invest your breath in some object with the command "return after an hour" to let you know when an hour has passed by your breath returning to you. What are some commands you can think of that you might be able to do with only one or two breaths that would be useful for the average working person?
  7. Do we know if a second generation singer is born on Nalthis would they be granted a Breath? Would the offspring of Nalthians who previously migrated off world be granted a Breath?
  8. I was wondering for a bit about methods to purify a Shard of intent, most likely by dividing it into small peices with a magic system and putting them back again. Extremely difficult, but theoretically possible. Just in case, spoiler here The important part is that Endowment can take herself apart via Breaths. Not to the point that it would ever naturally happen via people being born, but it can happen, especially if Endowment is signing on. So my idea is this Gather up Endowment’s entire power into Breath and put them in tons of people, who would get 10+ Heightenings. Have them dunk those Breaths into an object with some Command. You might need to rely on the Eighth Heighening to keep the train going, but if that doesn’t work, you just give the Breaths to the new object like you might a person (presumably you can) Now, i have three questions about this setup. 1. Can you turn an Awakened object into a Shard? I assume yes, though it probably has to be sentient like Nightblood is. 2. If yes to 1, can Endowment do this without the middlemen for something like Nightblood? (regular Awakened objects likely won’t do) 3. Would the Command given have any effect on the new Shard’s Intent? I would guess yes and no. I would suggest that the Commands might form a sub-intent or other psychological quirk, but the Intent would still include Endowment. Best case scenario is you get some Endowment-hybrid like Harmony is. However, you might still be able to use other Cosmere magic systems like Forgery to pull the trick instead. If all of this is possible, I nominate a toilet to become Endowment. It’s Command is “Clean things”.
  9. Cosmere healing such as Stormlight and Feruchemical Gold are said to heal the soul, Biochromatic Breaths are an innate part of a Nalthian's soul, there are WOBs that say you can heal back a power taken from Hemalurgy if you had enough Investiture. My question is this: Could a Nalthian who really regretted giving away their Beath and hated being a Drab gained access to either an Unsealed Goldmind with a ton of Health stored up or became a Surgebinder, could they heal their Breath back?
  10. Hello y’all. I was thinking about sapient Lifeless and wondered what you could do with them. Some questions… 1. How many Breaths do you need to guarentee a sapient Lifeless? 2. Can you make a Lifeless from the body of a Sliver whose Cognitive Shadow was sticking around? Especially since it’s the Breath that gets a personality and not the person? 3. If a Lifeless had multiple Breaths, could you harvest better Hemalurgic spikes from them? 4. Could a Lifeless kandra or mistwraith self repair more effectively and last longer than a human? Edit: When I said Hemalurgic spikes, I was more thinking of traits like senses. Not the actual animating Breath. (though just about any trait should work) 2nd edit: To clarify, I mean sapience specifically. Not just sentience like Clod has
  11. Let's say you're holding a thousand Breaths, then you do something stupid and get ded'ed. Then Endowment flips a coin or rolls a dice or whatever and decides to rez you. What happens to the Breaths you were holding? Do you still have it and thus won't die in a week or does it disappear?
  12. There is more you can do with breaths than just using them to awaken non-sentient objects. In Warbreaker, we see Vasher help a girl forget a traumatizing experience somehow, using breath. Probably by teaching her how to store memories in breath since, furthermore, in Rhythm of War we see that Wit does just this uses his breath as a storage system for memories. But one of the most fundamental aspects of breath is that they can be given to someone else. So what happens if you give a breath that holds some of your memories to someone else? To me, it would make sense that they now have access to those memories. Probably, it would require the right Intent to let them- maybe you need to modify the Command a little bit. " My life to yours, my Breath become yours. See what I have seen" or something. But I simply refuse to believe that if you can store your memories in Breath, and share Breath, that you can't allow other people to access those memories. (And possibly you could even make some kind of projector that can be Awakened to display memories in the Breaths it has, given the right Command, but that's extra speculative and probably we won't see anything like that for a while). We don't know exactly how how storing memories in Breath works, so maybe I'm completely off-base here, but I'd like to speculate further- why does it have to stop with memories? If you can store memories, could you store other things in breath? Strength? Speed? This sounds a lot like feruchemy and in many ways it is, so it's possible Brandon might not have made it work this way simply to keep the systems separate. But what we know of the memory thing does sound a lot like use of copperminds, so I also wouldn't be surprised if there were other similarities. Now, even if you can use breath to store strength, I doubt you can use it to give yourself super strength like you can with feruchemy. There's not multiplacativeness. You can store 10% of your strength in a breath, which means you'll be at 90% strength until you retrieve it and you're back up at 100%. You wouldn't be able to ever be at 110% strength like you can with feruchemy. But what you could do with Breath is to share that extra 10% of your strength with someone else. If you allow someone who's already at 100% strength to access your 10%, they could be at 110%. But that means you'll be stuck at 90% strength unless and until that person gives it back to you. I just think it would make sense if Endowment's magic system allows you to endow others with your own attributes, and this theory seems to be consistent with what we know so far.
  13. I just had a question in my mind, how do Awakened objects see? Because the prologue of Warbreaker, with the little straw-doll moving around outside of Vasher's line of sight, proves that they have some ability to examine their surroundings. How do they do that? Then it came to me, Heightenings, Awakened Objects almost always possess enough Breath for at least the first Heightening which would give them access to Lifesense, so that's how Awakened Objects see the people around them. There's probably more to this though, considering that they can react to their non-living environment though that might be explained by the visualization of their Command. Though I'm guessing that Awakened Objects wouldn't get much use from Perfect Pitch or Perfect Colour Recognition, but I still think it's remarkable if this were true.
  14. Can Endowment choose not to give a Nalthian a Breath when they are born? Or is that beyond her control? Just curious for thoughts.
  15. Can you place more Breaths in an Awakened Object then you need to? Like if you have 1,000 Breaths and try to Awaken a cloak that would only need 200 Breaths, could you instead choose to Awaken it with 500 Breaths? And would this have any benefits, like the object might be able to handle slightly more complex Commands or something?
  16. Could Bondsmiths by altering poeples connections give them the ability to use Breath or make them a Mistborn, Misting or Feruchemist?
  17. Apologies if this has been posted already and I didn't find it, or if this is so obvious it doesn't warrant its own post. I was talking to a friend who recently read Warbreaker, and I had this thought when we talked about the potential that Awakening had that is still underused. And while the obvious one is Type Four (Five) Invested Entities, I think RoW showed us a glimpse of another potential application of Breath: Storing Attributes What we saw at the end of RoW in the Meeting between Hoid and TOdium was Hoid losing memories that he had stored in Breaths. In Breaths, or As Breaths. So, who's to say that that's only possible with Memories? You probably see where I'm going with this. (And why I think it might have been posted already) Feruchemy and Awakening are both End-Neutral systems. And while their applications are different, they both are End-neutral because of the closed loops they utilize. In Awakening, you give your breath to something or someone, which endows them with the powers associated with it. They can utilize your breath, no more than what you've given. In Feruchemy, you store attributes in your metalminds. Specific Metals allow for the storage of specific attributes. You can later get these attributes back, no more than what you've given. Now, Feruchemy uses the kinds of metals as keys. Depending on what metal you (can) use, you store different attributes. From how I understand it, Feruchemists use their innate investiture, which is somehow imprinted with the attributes. Attributes in form of Investiture, to be used later. Now, we've seen Hoid do this with Breath. Storing Memories in a different form of Investiture. Of course, Hoid had a lot of time to practice and figure things out, but I think this is an angle of BioChromatic Breath that we might see more of in the future. Storing Attributes and giving these to others. We've seen something similar with Unkeyed Metalminds, where I could store wakefulness, strength, speed etc. and give it to you to tap. For Breath, the difficulty is just figuring out how to store attributes in Breath. I don't know if you need to be a Feruchemist too for that, if you need a specific command or whatever. But once you figure that out, it could be as simple as My life to yours, my Strength become yours. My life to yours, my Memories to yours. My life to yours, my Health to yours. etc. etc. What do you think? Is this possible? How difficult would it be? Does it make sense to expect more of this in the future or will just Worldhoppers like Hoid be able to figure it out?
  18. My brother and I were contemplating different theories for the Cosmere, two steps away from donning full tinfoil hats when he said something that I hadn't thought about. We were discussing Navani and what's next for her, trying to think about things that were repeated throughout RoW. A problem that Navani has is that she isn't a singer, so she has to really work at getting the correct pitch with Raboniel. Right before this, we had discussed Zahel and how Brandon had mentioned that he will get to what Zahel was doing - prompting me to ask the question "But why is Zahel is Roshar of all places, from a literary standpoint?" ... then he said it - Is the endgame for Zahel to, one way or another, end up giving Navani his breaths - thus enabling her to obtain perfect pitch? Sorry if that has been mentioned before, it was an "OH GOD" moment for me, and wonder if anyone else has anything to add to supplement, or debunk, this theory. Thanks!
  19. Zahel's Phantoms might save Roshar This is a theory I thought about a long time but I have not found someone else talking about it that much. And I would like you to help me find clues or forshadowing about this. The theory is based on a few important informations from multiple books and the coppermind. But in its core it is simple an obvious for me. Zahel = Vasher = Kalad Kalad's Pantoms are Humans encased in stone and basically undead supersoldiers created by Kalad with awekening. You can awaken someone soulcasted into stone. WoB (It is even easier) There are many stone Humans in Roshar So we have someone who can create an army of stone soldiers by awekening. We have humans that have been soulcast into stone and can be awakened. We have a lot of investiture on Roshar. The questions remaining are if Stormlight can be used to awaken or if it can be transformed to Breath? Navani might be on to something and Zahel can clearly use Stormlight instead of Breath to not just die. I do not think, that this will be a main part of SA5, because it has too much to the with the Cosmere as a whole, could end as a copy of the Warbreaker ending, but it might come up or be more important in the later books. Do you maybe have a discussion about that possibility somewhere, some insights or maybe information about foreshadowing? What do you think of this idea? It seems really obvious for me that Brandon has at least thought about that, especially when I look at the Wob from above.
  20. So, as far as I understand it's the case that organic substances can be Awakened, and then Breath can be retrieved from them later (except in the case of Lifeless, possibly because they gain an Identity). Inorganic substances are far harder to Awaken (seventh Heightening, very high cost etc), and Breath can't be retrieved from them in the example we've seen (also possibly because Nightblood has its own Identity). Where does amber fall on this scale? I don't imagine it would be very useful for everyday Awakening (not exactly very flexible), but for academic/hypothetical purposes, where do your thoughts fall when it comes to the organic versus inorganic nature of amber for the purposes of Awakening? Because on the one hand it's closer in appearance to, say, a precious stone than cloth or straw, but it's actually composed of solidified resin.
  21. Hello everyone, first Topic Post from me, As I reread Warbreaker, I came across the few pages where Vasher explains to Vivenna how little they knew about Awakening and the Commands that exist. A thought then occured to me and I haven't been able to find much about it. Could there be a Command that exists that transfers a Returned's breath to someone else like a regular breath, and we simply don't know what exactly it is? I did read a WoB saying that when a Returned gives up their breath, it turns to "Kenetic Investment", so it physically and mentally heals the recipient, but is that because that's the command that's being used? Or is it because that's just how Returned Breaths can only be used? I also read a WoB that said that it is mostly based off of what you're visualizing in your mind, so I'm not sure if it means that the Returned can only visualize healing the subject as they say the command since it typically is why they came back. I might have over thought this one, but I'd like to know if it's already been answered.
  22. Hi all, apologies if this was asked, but I never explored the Warbreaker sections of the forum as this is my least favorite novel. I have some questions about giving away the Breaths. 1) Would a person born on Nalthis be able to give his Breaths to non-Nalthian if they were on Nalthis? (e.g. If Kaladin moved to Nalthis, could he receive Breaths?) 2) Similar case - Kal moves to Nalthis, can he give his Breath to a Nalthian? 3) Can a Nalthian give away his Breaths off-world to a non-Nalthian? E.g. Zahel to Kal on Roshar? 4) Can a non-Nalthian give his Breaths to a Nalthian on Roshar? After proper training, with Intent etc. E.g. Kal to Zahel on Roshar 5) Can two Nalthians exchange Breaths off-world? Like on Roshar? I think the answers would be 1)Yes 2)No 3)Yes 4)No 5)Yes but I am just guessing based on the fact that Awakening and Breaths are not planet-related like Elantrian magic but they are inborn, sDNA related abilities. This is only my speculations though. Obviously Hoid is Awakening and he is not from Nalthis, but he is an extraordinary individual so maybe not a best example.
  23. From what I understand, perfect pitch allows the user to hit any note they wish with flawless accuracy, as long as they have the breaths for it (second heightening I think is 200? Could be wrong) My question, how does perfect pitch know what notes the user needs to hit? Like if there were 2 songs basically identical other than one note, how would the ability know which note to let them hit? I propose it is a sort of connection between the cognative intension and the song itself. I believe it's confirmed music spren exist so I don't think this is too far fetched Lemme know what you all think!
  24. Based on WOBs, we know people not from Nalthis are not Drabs, but if someone not from Nalthis gets one breath and then gives it away, does this still hold true? Is the breath less intertwined with their soul than a Nalthian and this they have about a Nalthian level of soul, or just slightly less, even without a breath, or would having gotten a breath open them up to becoming a drab? I suspect the answer to that is know but I wanted to check to see if everyone agreed.
  25. Intro I have returned for yet another attempt to theorize and understand one of the many magics of the Cosmere. This time I am tackling breath, one of my favorite magic systems, though I do love them all. As many of you undoubtedly know, everybody's favorite wanderer has shown us a less than well known use for breath. While there was prior evidence of breath being tied to memory from two scenes in Warbreaker (the little girl, and the offer to Denth) this aspect has yet to be explored or explained much. I apologize in advance if their is a WOB that already talks about this, I keep forgetting to read them all. Some Background In very typical fashion for me, I felt compelled to try and understand this more. So I turned to the wonderful coppermind and Warbreaker itself. In it I found a most peculiar note, "If enough Breaths are collected, they can start to affect the personality of the person holding them. "Breaths do bring some things along with them,", but they are not "terribly individual" depending on their original owner. For example, Vahr's resolve was strengthened because of the similar mindsets of those he collected his Breaths from, but the effect only manifested due to the large amount of Breaths he had." The Theory one: How Breath Connects To The Bearer Now given textual evidence and assuming this is accurate I propose. Breath actually has an impact on a person in all 3 realms to a greater extent than the average magic system (which to me makes sense for Endowment). Though one could argue it is simply because one can acquire more of it more easily than most other Cosmere magic systems. The physical is easily seen, as many of the heightenings provide benefits that are at least tangentially physical (and arguably cognitive). As for the cognitive aspect, I think that like a cognitive shadow, breaths imprint slightly upon a person's spirit web and or their cognitive aspect. Hence how they can influence a person's personality if they collect a lot of it. However, due to the relatively small amount of investiture per breath this effect is greatly diminished. Likely only picking up a modicum of a person's thoughts and feelings that is only noticeable if those you get the breath from have a similar mindset. Finally, there is the spiritual aspect to consider. While there is really only one concrete example I think Susebron gives us some idea what this entails. Although he is no sliver, the sheer quantity of investiture bound to him would in my eyes on some level expand his soul in a similar if lesser manner. Given we do not know as much about the greater levels of heightening I sadly cannot back this up with much evidence. Though I do believe the way in which the more breath you have makes you better at awakening when you first begin might tie into a spiritual connection with endowment and awakening as a magic system. Yet, I could see an argument for this being a cognitive not spiritual effect. Theory two: How This Connects To Memory Now assuming I am at least on the right track. Then the question is, how does this allow you to store memories in them? I would propose given the ties to multiple aspects of a person (particularly cognitive and spiritual) there is a way to exploit this to impact memory. When Vasher tells the little girl to speak a certain command, Vivenna notices her breath flickers. To me this implies a portion of the breath and the cognitive tie to that memory have been severed from the girl. As for Hoid using it as a memory storage, once again. Given the impact memory can have on your cognitive aspect, and how are memories shape our identity. It does not feel like a great leap in logic to assume that one could use those breaths to store those memories. As the breaths in question are tied to a person in just about every way. Though whether using them to awaken or storing the breaths in something like clothes would degrade or destroy the memories I do not know. Granted I imagine it requires a great knowledge of investiture to do this, but many things are possible with the right application of knowledge. Afterword Just wanted to say thanks for reading everyone. Happy to discuss further if you feel so inclined. Sorry if my thought process is hard to follow or I seem to be making too great a leap in logic. Also hope people like the new format I am using for my theories. Feel like it helps make them more digestible and easy to follow.
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