Search the Community

Showing results for tags 'autonomy'.

More search options

  • Search By Tags

    Type tags separated by commas.
  • Search By Author

Content Type


  • Brandon and Book News
  • Events, Signings, & Giveaways
  • Columns and Features
  • Site News
  • Shardcast


  • 17th Shard
    • Introduce Yourself!
    • 17th Shard Discussion
    • The Coppermind Wiki
    • Arcanum Discussion
  • Brandon Sanderson
    • General Brandon Discussion
    • Events and Signings
    • Sanderson Fan Works
    • Arcanum, the Brandon Sanderson Archive
  • Rhythm of War and Dawnshard Spoiler Area
    • RoW General Thoughts
    • RoW Character Discussion
    • RoW Lore, Magic, and Cosmere Discussion
    • Dawnshard Discussion
  • The Cosmere
    • Cosmere Q&A
    • Cosmere Discussion
    • Stormlight Archive
    • Mistborn
    • Elantris and Emperor's Soul
    • Warbreaker
    • White Sand
    • Cosmere Short Stories
    • Unpublished Works
  • Non-cosmere Works
    • The Reckoners
    • The Rithmatist
    • Skyward
    • Alcatraz
    • Dark One
    • Other Stories
    • The Wheel of Time
  • Related Works
    • Writing Excuses
    • Reading Excuses
    • TWG Archive
  • Community
    • General Discussion
    • Entertainment Discussion
    • Science, Tech, and Math Discussion
    • Creator's Corner
    • Role-Playing
    • Social Groups, Clans, and Guilds


  • Chaos' Blog
  • Leinton's Blog
  • 17th Shard Blog
  • KChan's Blog
  • Puck's Blag
  • Brandon's Blog
  • The Name of your Blog
  • Darth Squirrely's Blog
  • Tales of a Firebug
  • borborygmus' Blog
  • Zeadman's Blog
  • zas678's Blog
  • The Basement
  • Addy's Avocations
  • Zarepath's Blog
  • First time reading The Well Of Ascension
  • Seshperankh's Blog
  • "I Have Opinions About Books"
  • Test
  • Which actors would you like to see playing the characters of Mistborn?
  • Drifted Mists
  • Jaron's Realm
  • Roshar Speculative Theories
  • ChrisHamatake's Blog
  • Paradox Flint's Blog
  • Deoradhan's Blog
  • Storm Blessed's Blog
  • Elwynn's Blog
  • firstRainbowRose's Blog
  • Rotabush ShardBlog
  • Hoid's Compendium
  • InterContinental Adventures
  • Claincy Creates
  • WoR Thoughts and Questions
  • Blogfalcon
  • David Coppercloud's Blog
  • yurisses' notes and theories
  • Lark Adventures
  • LUNA's Poetry
  • Inspiration Board
  • Trying to be Useful for a Change
  • The Way of Toasters
  • Cosmere Nerd Things
  • Dapper's Music Blog
  • DA blog
  • Wyn's Adventures in Geekiness
  • Words With Ene
  • Dapper's Blog
  • Things to talk about, stuff to do
  • Zelly's Healthy-Accountability Blog
  • Even These Acronyms
  • clutter is an art
  • Rhythm of War Liveblog


  • Community Calendar

Found 47 results

  1. Hello. So, I was just listening to the Shardcast episode on Autonomy, and I got thinking about their intent and what it means exactly. So, what gets me about Autonomy is their actions seemingly run counter to their intent. In Mistborn era 2, it has been implied that Autonomy may be the one who is “invading” Scadrial and Trell is somehow associated with Autonomy. For this theory, I’m just going to assume that Trell is an aspect or avatar of Autonomy, and is expressing a similar intent to her. In this case, Trell trying to take control of another Shard’s planet, and interfering with that Shard’s autonomy seems to go counter to their intent. Additionally, the names of ranks in the set are things like “Suit”, or “Sequence”. This seems very strange given that these names give the idea that you are part of a whole, not autonomous. This could be a reference to Autonomy’s many avatars, and Autonomy herself being a set of many aspects, but it still seems strange. I would say that Autonomy seems to follow her intent in her minions’ teachings. Paalm speaks constantly about her feeling of being controlled, her lack of autonomy. Bloody Tan follows the same train of thought. “Someone else moves us, lawman.” So, what can we deduce from this about what Autonomy’s intent means, and how Bavadin perceives that intent? What may her goals be? I want to try and think about Autonomy as an aspect of Adonalsium. Each shard is an aspect of the divine. Odium is “God’s own divine hatred”. Presumably, Honor is Adonalsium’s sense of integrity, holding to oaths. Preservation is Adonalsium’s desire to preserve his creations. Etc. So, what was Autonomy? I think this quote helps us here: To me, what I feel like is that Autonomy is god’s divine will. Autonomy is Adonalsium’s resolve, willpower, sense of self, and force of personality. Adonalsium’s identity. To be clear, I don’t think that Autonomy is in any way the shard of the realmatic concept Identity. Just as Honor, the shard of bonds, is not in the shard in charge of the the realmatic concept of Connection. I also don’t think Autonomy somehow now has the same personality as Adonalsium. I simply think that Autonomy embodies the strength of character and resolve behind whatever consciousness Adonalsium had. One way I think of it, for anyone who plays tabletop RPGs, is that Autonomy is the quality you use when you roll a willpower or charisma saving throw. This idea seems to fit with Autonomy’s actions. They want to be on their own, and stand as alone and resolute. Yet, Bavadin makes avatars because she wants as many autonomous aspects of herself as possible. Her intent is to try and accentuate her identity and self, so she creates many avatars which each accentuate her different aspects. So why does Autonomy seem so intent on controlling and interfering with other planets? Well, to me, it seems like there are a few possibilities. Maybe she wants to enforce her personality on others. Maybe she wants other people to just be reflections of Autonomy. Maybe her force of personality and intent make her want to literally remake worlds in her image. I don’t know, but it makes sense to me that a Shard focused on their own willpower and identity would want to use that extreme force of personality to dominate others. That’s maybe getting a little close to Dominion’s intent, but I think the idea of a domineering intent like this can be done uniquely in multiple ways. Now, I’m going to go into crazy speculation territory and say that this could also hint at Autonomy’s long-term goals. Following this line, Autonomy may want to remake everything in her image, so that everyone and everything is simply an extension of her. This would be a unique way to have a “conquer the world” kind of villain, which I think is interesting. TLDR: Autonomy’s intent can possibly be described as being “god’s willpower” or “god’s identity”, similar to how Odium is “god’s anger”.
  2. Guys! I have discovered the answer! I now know why Autonomy is so determined to make all the worlds develop on their own! She doesn't want their germs! Think about it. She doesn't leave her world, she makes avatars for that, to prevent her from getting the germs. She doesn't let other people in to prevent germs from other worlds for contaminating hers. She, as far as we know, doesn't interact with anyone, probably afraid of getting the germs. We see a pattern here? And so, her end goal is to prevent anyone from leaving shard worlds and keeping the germs away from her.
  3. So, I see a lot of theories floating about with regards to Autonomy being the "final antagonist" of the cosmere. It does not sit right with me that this particular Shardic Intent would be the final boss. Autonomy, in my eyes, is a good thing. Odium feels more natural an antagonist. Hatred, even if it is Adonalsium's divine hatred without the context of emotions, feels like more of a destructive force than Autonomy. And then there are the unknown Shards. I feel like they need to be brought in some time or the other, and maybe one of them is the big baddie. I feel the known Shardic Intent have more positive and neutral intents (positive: Honor, Cultivation, Preservation, Endowment, Devotion, Survival?; neutral: Ambition, Autonomy,) than negative ones ( Odium, Ruin, Dominion) and the field seems biased to one side (I know my classification is a bit arbitrary) So, while I am happy with the Autonomy being a troublemaker on Scadrial in the form of Trell, I cant really buy in to the idea of the cosmere concluding with a 'battle against Autonomy'. The phrase sounds off to me. Ps. Maybe I am overthinking this. Maybe the reason Autonomy is the last one standing is because they will go to any extent to stay autonomous. Thoughts?
  4. As title says, I think that Rosharan system is influenced not by 3, but 4 Shards. Autonomys power here is, of course, not large enough to threat any other Shard alone - she is mainly on Taldain - but is large enough to make a difference. In fact, I think it did. First, Ashynite magic system. We know that now is We can clearly see that this is still Surge-based system: - gravity, flight - Gravitation Surge - changing the color of objects, prophecy - Ilumination Surge (Physical, Spiritual) - passing through walls - Cohesion or Transportation Surge But we also know that Magic System has changed after Shattering. Or, I think, DURRING Shattering. Current magic on Ashyn has basis standard for Rosharan system, but second very important part of magic, Focus of Investiture, has similar to systems tied to Autonomy. - in SandMastery Focus is also microbs - in Aviars Focus is parasites - what is sort of disease. Both are also rather small living things separate from host. We also know that radical change in planet Magic System most likely is caused by other Shard Influence - we saw this on Sel, we saw this on Threnody (both Influenced by Odium). We have to wait, what happen on Scadrial, but this can be very interesting. This could also easily break this Theory. So I think Autonomy come to Roshar slightly after Odium. We dont know how Autonomy make his Avatars, is he making them on place, ot on Taldain and they have to walk through Shadesmar? So, we dont know, but this isnt important. Avatar of Autonomy is on Ashyn. Why? Because in this System we have 3 Shards, 2 are cooperating. It is something what isnt good from Autonomy point of view. Why she doesnt influence Scadrial, you would ask? Answer is - She did. Its not accident that on Scadrial we had Ancient religion focused on Stars and dualism, with the same name of God what apears now as other Shards influence. Trell was always on Scadrial. But come back to Theory. Autonomy has Avatar on Ashyn and try to influence people. Odium, of course, dont going to like it. Probably even, Autonomy is primarly against Honor and Cultivation, but Odium dont gong to give her "his" followers. So followers of Autonomy and Odium starts to fight. And... they destroy entire planet. Is possible that it was Honors plot, because Dawnshards, artifacts with power of Bonding, can be from Honor. But this is speculation. So, Ashyn was destroyed in war between Odium and Autonomy. Odium followers ran on Roshar. Autonomy followers stayd on Ashyn mostly, but some of them were also between refugees, so they influence later stories, what starts Vorinism: Odium and Autonomy made a truce for now. Odium shifts his focus on his primar goal, against Honor and Cultivation. In fact, this is also Autonomy first goal, so they decide to cooperate. Of course, they dont trust each other. But they have one goal, so they are allies. In fact, for Odium this was like blessing, because Honor had Cultivations help and was prepared, not like Dominion earlier (yes, I think Dominion was the one who fought Odium, but ironicly, he wasnt target, Devotion was), also Cutivation is not like Devotion or Preservation, she is positive, but can be really ruthless. So Odium need something to have Cultivation in check, while he was fighting Honor. And Autonomy was perfect - not strong enough to threat him, but strong enough to stop Cultivation long enough for Odium to kill Honor. Of course, Autonomy will be not strong for Stop Cultivation, if she will decide strike with full strengh, so Odium still wasnt able to completly destroy Honor remnants, but this always is some time. So this is why Odium was sceraming famous "WE KILLED YOU!" - He wasnt alone this time, Autonomy was stopping Cultivation and helping Him. Also, Ashyn alone is very... Autonomy-alike. Isolated enclaves, Isolated floating cities, not very known among worldhoppers, with not many visitors... What do you think? Make this sence? Or is this too streched?
  5. autonomy

    So where is Autonomy exactly? I was going through the White Sand comics and there were faces in the sky. Not very subtle, that. But I remember reading WoBs and theories where Autonomy is the sun on the Dayside of the Taldain system. About how strange the entire Taldain planetary/stellar system was, why Taldain's Perpendicularity might be blocked (because it's in the Sun), how the lichen of the white sands recharge after being used for Sand Mastery, the Skycolors of Darkside (Shifting Colors in the comics), etc. Autonomy being the Sun made perfect sense, but there are also theories on her being Invested in the atmosphere, and some of those theories still work with that. So is Autonomy hiding in the sun or in the atmosphere? Did Brandon change his mind? Also, what's up with, what looks like an Avatar of her, appearing before Elorin? What's this about Scythe (Skathan in the comics, the Emperor of the Dynasty on Darkside) possibly being another Avatar of her? I've read the WoB on Patji about it being an Avatar of Autonomy formed of her Intent but not quite Splintered off her, and I understand that bit but why would Hoid leave the letter to him? Was access to Bavadin blocked at that point due to her closing off Taldain?
  6. So who is/was Austre? He is associated with the first Returned, Vo. He is a 'he', while Edgli, Endowment's Vessel is a 'she' Was he a different Returned who was conflated with Vo? We see Vasher's diverse set of names and how history can forget things. Is he a Splinter of Endowment? An Avatar of Edgli? This WoB confirms it's not just Endowment in a fake moustache: Other people have speculated on Austre being an Avatar of Autonomy based on the religion's values and Autonomy's interference comment by Khriss Does Austre actually have anything to do with Returning? I don't think so based off of Lightsong's memories. Was Vo's Returning different somehow with the Five Visions or is that history tying itself in knots over time?
  7. I highly recommend the November 2019 Autonomy Shardcast. @Chaos, @thegatorgirl00, @Argent, and @Overlord Jebus do a great job going over the Autonomy essentials with relevant text and WoBs. Their Trell analysis alone is worth the listen. The Shardcasters, though, offer no unifying principle to explain Bavadin/Autonomy’s many oddities. My “Comprehensive Magic Theory” proposes such a principle: fractals. Fractals are progressively smaller-scaled versions of the same pattern, all of which make one whole. Avatars seem smaller-scaled versions of Autonomy, and I speculate Autonomy’s magic (Sand Mastery and Aviar) relies on Splinters that are still smaller-scaled Autonomy versions. All remain “one whole,” since (a recent WoB suggests) Autonomy controls their Avatars through an inter-Connected mind. Don’t hang up yet...Let me explain. Background: Shard “Primal Forces” My theory posits Shards magically differ only in how they give access to their Investiture, not in what their Investiture can do. Ruin’s magic users access Investiture through some act of entropy; Preservation’s through some act of stasis; and Honor’s through a voluntary bond between people. Brandon alternately calls these different means of access to Investiture “primal forces,” “fundamental laws,” and “something...natural.” Shards are “primal forces attached to certain aspects of personality...[a] cultural component, I would say, that is trying to represent something that is also natural.” Brandon cites his fascination with fractals. I think he wants a “personality aspect/cultural component” to represent a fractal primal force. Fractals are too common in nature for him to ignore. I believe Brandon settled on “Autonomy” as the “charged term” for a Shard that gives access to Investiture through fractals. What Are Fractals Mandelbrot (of @Extesian's Mandelbrot Set icon) coined the term “fractal” in 1975: "a fractal is a geometric shape that can be separated into parts, each of which is a reduced-scale version of the whole." Here’s another description: The main points: Smaller-scaled fractals show the same pattern as the whole. Fractals can infinitely self-replicate that pattern. Smaller-scaled fractals remain part of the larger whole (the most important point, IMO). Why I Associate Fractals with Autonomy Brandon himself asks: If you get rid of the charged term “autonomy” – the sense of freedom, self-reliance, etc. – I think you’re left with a primal force that focuses on fractal self-containedness. Each fractal bears the same pattern as the others but is its own autonomous unit. The ongoing looped process that creates fractals ensures each fractal will continue to make more, smaller-scaled autonomous fractals of the same pattern. What Are Avatars Fractal creation seems to me exactly what Autonomy does when they create Avatars, smaller-scaled versions of themselves that remain part of the whole. Brandon describes the “standard” Avatar – a smaller, less-powerful-than-a-Shard combination of mind and Investiture: Questions: (1) What are the non-standard types of Avatars; and (2) how do Avatars differ from other large forms of sapient Investiture like Roshar’s great spren? Two recent WoBs give some insight: Answers: These WoBs say, 1. Avatars can spawn spontaneously without Bavadin consciously creating them. 2. Bavadin is always aware of their Avatars including spontaneously spawned ones. 3. Bavadin personally directs the Avatars that lack self-awareness. I speculate these non-self-aware Avatars are the non-standard ones. These Avatar characteristics match the fractal behavior I describe above. Avatars spawn spontaneously because fractals can infinitely self-replicate their pattern. Bavadin is always aware of their Avatars because all fractals are part of the larger whole. Maybe other living Shards spontaneously Splinter and maybe they retain some awareness of their Splinters, but the extent of their attention is unclear. Odium does not seem aware of Sja-anat’s treachery, for example. Item 3 in particular may be unique to Autonomy. I don’t recall another Shard whose Vessel personally directs large independent chunks of its Investiture. The only known large Investiture chunks are Roshar’s great spren and the nascent Mother Sel (AU, “The Selish System,” Kindle pp. 18). Yet the Stormfather, Nightwatcher, and Sibling each have their own mind and personality; and Mother Sel seems to be forming her own mind. In contrast to Autonomy’s control of their Avatars, Cultivation encourages the Nightwatcher to grow her own abilities, as befits that Shard. Hypothesis: Maybe Avatars differ from other sapient Investiture chunks because Avatars remain subject to Autonomy’s control – just like fractals are smaller-scaled versions of the whole. Bavadin writes to Hoid as “us” and “we.” I suspect Autonomy at some level controls even the self-directing Avatars that have their own personality. We know Autonomy creates pantheons where they are every god of every gender – smaller versions of Bavadin. This would explain why Brandon says, “The being called Patji still exists, and is a Shard of Adonalsium.” Since Autonomy maintains their control of Patji, a smaller-scaled version of themselves, Patji IS a Shard, part of Autonomy. How Fractals Fit Autonomy’s Magic Honor is not the only Shard that bonds, Ruin isn’t the only Shard that destroys, and Autonomy is not the only Shard that creates fractals (Pattern, anyone?). But IMO each of them ARE the only Shards that give access to their Investiture through bonding, entropy, and fractals respectively. Avatar Creation Autonomy creates standard Avatars by first finding a “gathering” of their “assigned Investiture.” Brandon says, “in the cosmere matter, energy, and Investiture are one thing” and all share the mark of the Shard’s “spin,” its primal force/fundamental law/something natural. This maintains the 16-Shard balance when Investiture converts into matter or energy and back again. I believe Autonomy searches for sources of Physical Realm fractals large enough to sustain an Avatar. Autonomy’s only known Avatar is Patji on First of the Sun. Bavadin mentions “Obrodai” and its nascent Avatar in their letter to Hoid, but that may just be their name for First of the Sun. Roshar also holds a “gathering of [Autonomy’s assigned] Investiture” that does not (yet?) appear to be an Avatar. First of the Sun/Obrodai and Roshar are ocean planets with little land. In their letter, Bavadin seems to enjoy oceans: "But we stand in the sea, pleased with our domains....” (OB Chapter 48 Epigraph.) Adonalsium built the Rosharan continent from Roshar’s ocean floor using the Julia set, a fractal geometry equation. I suggest Roshar’s many fractals (including its gemstones/gemhearts) form Autonomy’s “gathering” of assigned Investiture. IMO, the Patji pantheon (and the Obrodai Avatar if different from Patji) are also land masses built from the oceans on fractal geometry principles. I speculate Autonomy Connects each Avatar to Bavadin’s mind to retain control of the whole. Autonomy programs the Avatar as they choose. Standard Avatars may have a separate personality. Bavadin’s letter to Hoid describes Obrodai’s Avatar: “She is young yet, and – as a precaution – she has been instilled with an intense and overpowering dislike of you." (OB Chapter 50 Epigraph.) Through this inter-Connected mind, the Shard remains a whole comprised of many smaller-scaled versions of themselves. Sand Mastery Sand ribbons are my only evidence Sand Master innate Investiture is a fractal. More powerful Sand Masters can simultaneously control more ribbons. Younger or weaker magic users can only manipulate a single ribbon. This suggests each sand ribbon has a separate source, a separate Autonomy fractal the Sand Master directs. Through training, more powerful Sand Masters may strengthen whatever in their character, talent, and skill Initiated them into Sand Mastery. Those strengthened conditions may cause the fractal to self-replicate. I speculate each new fractal allows the Master to direct a new ribbon. Aviar My analysis here is equally speculative, but I do have support. Brandon says the Aviar-human bond I believe the language I bolded highlights fractal characteristics. Brandon says he chose fractals for the Rosharan continent’s shape because “I like the blend of structure and spontaneity they can sometimes exhibit.” Fractals can spontaneously self-replicate to shift a bond. Fractal flexibility allows them to take any shape in any medium, as earth’s natural features show. The Invested entity is the Aviar’s human bond-mate. Aviar are “an intermediary” because unlike spren the magic isn’t really the Aviar’s. They acquire it by eating Invested worms, fulfilling the role of “the person that’s bonding the spren.” How does the human become an “Invested entity”? My guess is Aviar Initiation is like Sand Mastery’s. Patji’s trappers must prevail against the planet’s most dangerous predators and hazards. Bavadin tells Hoid: “If you wish more, seek these waters in person and overcome the tests we have created. Only in this will you earn our respect.” (OB Chapter 51 Epigraph.) I speculate when trappers “overcome” their tests, Patji rewards them by Splintering off a new fractal into their sDNA to bond an Aviar with. Aviar magic, like Sand Mastery, relies on a Cognitive bond between lifeforms. Water forges and maintains the Sand Master’s bond with Invested microflora (AU, “The Taldain System,” Kindle pp. 369-370); and I believe it maintains all Patji’s Cognitive bonds. Dusk thinks, “Nobody knew why beasts like the shadows only lived here, in the waters near the Pantheon.” (SotD, Kindle Loc 49.) We know the answer is Patji’s Eye, whose Investiture-laced water flows into the sea. These sea predators “did not hunt by smell or sight, but by sensing the minds of prey.” (SotD, Kindle Loc 20.) On Patji Dusk observes, “the beasts that hunted minds on the island were not as large or as strong of psyche as the shadows of the ocean.” (SotD, Kindle Loc 100.) Dusk describes the “dense humidity of Patji’s jungle.” (SotD, Kindle Loc 784.) I speculate land predators catch their prey’s thoughts through the moisture-laden air. Humidity is a weaker water bridge than oceans, which seem to conduct thoughts better. The weaker bridge IMO comparatively weakens the land predators. Conclusion Every Shard IMO accesses Investiture through a different “primal force/fundamental law/something natural.” Avatars, Sand Mastery, and Aviar make fractals my best guess for Autonomy’s primal force (for now). Regards! C. Predictions:
  8. So I a little theory on what Avatars are and how they form. Per these two WoB we get A LOT of stuff on Avatars. Oversleep Okay now I have one about Shard avatars, like Autonomy's. Is it possible for one to form without the Shard's Vessel directly making it, so independent... Brandon Sanderson Yes, it is. They would be aware of it, however. They couldn't not be aware of it, but it could arise without their direct and conscious decision to do so. Oversleep And the one on First of the Sun, is it by Autonomy's direct... Brandon Sanderson Yes, that is directly created. Prague Signing (Oct. 26, 2019) So Brandon is saying that if a Avatar formed on its own, the Vessel of said Shard couldn't not know about the Avatar. That's because the Avatar IS the shard. You couldn't not know if part of the essence of your being started acting on its own. This is a cut of a much larger WoB: "Let's say you were Autonomy, and you have--through expanding and exploring your understanding--found a gathering of Investiture that has always been there, you always knew about, but still didn't actually recognize until the moment you considered and explored it. (Because even though your power is infinite, accessing and using that infinity is beyond your reach.) Were you "Invested" there? No, no more than you're Invested on Roshar, where parts of what were Adonalsium still exist that are associated with you (in the very fabric of mater and existence.) But suddenly, you have a chance to tweak, influence, and do things that were always possible, but which you never could do because you knew, but didn't know, at the same time." So First of The Sun has always been Associated with Autonomy's Investiture. She never went to FoTS but that gathering of Investiture has always been associated with her even if she didn't know it. So one day Autonomy is doing Godly things and stumbles across FoTS and then she knows that it's her Investiture. Suddenly she can do all these things know. Part of the very core of who she is, is on the planet. It always has been. even though she hasn't actually been there she can do things with that Investiture. Now comes the theory. Autonomy's Avatars are just(idk the right term so I'll go with "splinter")splinters of her power given part of her overall consciousness. The Avatars are Autonomy, but given her Intent she like to give these "separate" beings their own personalities. They ARE Autonomy... just not. It's like all the Avatars are the "Jury" and Bavadin is the "Judge"
  9. Throughout the Cosmere we have seen Avatar of other shards , the island Patji in six of dusk is supposedly one of autonomy Avatars which got me to thinking . What other Avatars have we seen and are any of them on Roshar Of the top of my head I would assume said Avatar would be filled to bursting with power . But that is just me thinking , I’m a mortal sue me . But perhaps it doesn’t have to be so . All the Shard has to do to make an Avatar is find a area infested with investiture and change it according to the shards design and boom Avatar . When Honor and Cultivation came to Roshar that’s pretty much what they did to the Mega spren . Stormfather , Sibling , and Nightwatcher. But there has to be others : based upon what we have seen can u think of any others ? Here is my list of what could be 1. Urithiru , I think Urithiru is an avatar of Honor thus in hibernation since the Sibling is as well 2. The purelake . Something is going on with that place , thier are faint traces of magic . Little things like eating certain fish will give you access to fortune , etc . I think this is an Avatar of Cultivation 3. Everytime I mention Lift people get upset but I think she is more than a Radiant . She does too much , like entering Dalinar visions and leaving when she felt like it and took gaux with her 4. That giant spren that look like a great shell , that the Aimian guy was searching for 5. All the Heralds 6 the unmade can anybody think of any more that you might think qualifies to possibly be an Avatar? merry Christmas members !
  10. So, I've been reading a lot about Autonomy's avatars and the hive mind (debunked) or multiple personalities theories and the following comes to mind (forgive me if this has been discussed already. If there's a WoB, please send me the link!): Could it be that have multiple avatars for Autonomy is actually a result of the shard's intent? A manifestation/implementation of the shard remaining autonomous even if (one of its) vessels gets destroyed/killed? Basically, the multiple personalities issue happened after the shattering, due to the intent lacking the context and balance of the other intents?
  11. One of the Oathbringer epigraph letters mention a place named Obrodai, where the sender, who is confirmed to be Patji, the Avatar of Autonomy on the First of the Sun, claims that another Avatar of their being is manifesting. Obrodai also appears to be referred to as "these waters" and as a "testing grounds" within the letter. We know from Arcanum Unbounded that the Drominad System has four planets in the habitable zone, all of which have water as a dominant feature on their surface and three of which are confirmed to have humans living on it. This is compared to the Rosharan System by Khriss. The fourth planet in the system, on the other hand, does not have any fully developed human societies. So, it might have a human outpost, or non-sapient fauna or something else. I started to have suspicions. Then I found this WoB: So, thoughts? It seems highly likely that Obrodai might turn out to be one of the other planets in the same system as First of the Sun. Second and Third of the Sun are good candidates but the Fourth of the Sun doesn't seem to be out of the running yet either.
  12. I had a theory. In Mistborn era 1 Sazed talks about a religious group, the Nelazan, who worshipped the stars, a god with a thousand eyes named Trell. Could it be that this religion actually originates from people who moved from Taldain to Scadrial, and the religion of The Sand Lord/Autonomy morphed into this.... And perhaps this exodus was led by Trell the construction foreman and somehow over time his name became associated with their god.
  13. Roshar is “a created planet” in a system “manufactured for a specific purpose.” I hypothesize Roshar’s purpose requires its three Great spren to grow the planet faster than is normally possible. The Stormfather (nee Rider of Storms) energizes growth with Stormlight. The Nightwatcher manifests growth by using Stormlight to transform spren from their Cognitive to their Physical Realm aspect. The Sibling IMO supports and enhances animal growth through gemhearts. Singers need three things for their transformational life cycle: Stormlight, spren, and a gemheart. I hypothesize each Great spren personifies Singer pre-Shattering perception of these three necessities. The Stormfather and Nightwatcher are the source of Stormlight and spren (IMO). Stormlight enables a spren to enter a gemheart and manifest in the Physical Realm as a Singer form. The spren Connects to the Singer’s Spiritual aspect through the Singer’s gemheart. This Singer mechanic predates the Shattering. Almost all Roshar’s creatures have “some sort of gemheart.” Gemhearts are composed of Investiture leaked into the Physical Realm. Gemhearts allow spren to enhance Greatshells, skyeels, and Rhyshadium. Most Rosharan gemstones are made from gemhearts, but some gemstones occur naturally. I propose the Sibling is the source of gemhearts. IMO, the gemstone-encrusted pillar in Urithiru’s basement IS the Sibling, or at least its Physical Realm manifestation. Renarin tells Navani’s scribes, “They’re not fabrials. They’re a fabrial.” (OB, Chapter 44, Kindle p. 455.) I think Renarin makes two points: (1) the Sibling is non-binary (“they” is singular), and (2) the pillar is the Great spren inside the Urithiru fabrial. Kalami’s team fails “to infuse the gemstone pillar.” (OB, Chapter 44, Kindle p. 454.) The pillar remains inert – “slumbering.” I agree with those who believe the Sibling is the Spren of Stone. I think the Spren of Stone personifies the Rosharan continent after Adonalsium built it through fractal mathematics principles. Sixth of the Dusk Spoiler: I think fractals are Autonomy’s “primal force.” Gemstones are fractals. Brandon says Autonomy’s assigned Investiture sits on Roshar. I believe the Spren of Stone is a potential Autonomy Avatar. Many disagree. If I’m right, it would explain why the Stormfather calls the Sibling “they” and Brandon hints the Sibling is non-binary: Autonomy too is non-binary. It makes sense to me each Great spren personifies a different aspect of the Singer life cycle. Singers first personified the Great spren. It also makes sense that Great spren Investiture comes from three different Shards – and Odium is not one of them. @RShara and others feel Brandon wouldn’t introduce a fourth Shard into SLA, mostly for narrative reasons. Two answers: First, Autonomy may not have an active or on-screen role. That Shard may only become Roshar-relevant later in the cosmere story and maybe never. Second, I feel Brandon does foreshadow Autonomy on Roshar. He specifically mentions Autonomy’s Rosharan Investiture in a WoB about the Patji Avatar. Brandon inserts this tidbit without any context, as if he were glad to drop an obscure breadcrumb. Regardless of the Sibling’s composition, they do seem associated with gemhearts. The fabrial magic system needs both spren and gemstones, plus human design. Fabrials to me are an Autonomy-Cultivation combo system, fronted by the Sibling and Nightwatcher.
  14. I'm going to just say right off the bat that I am by no means convinced that this is even likely to be true much less that it actually is, and it only just finished coming together in my head a few minutes ago in another one of my posts in which Autonomy was brought up. So for all I know, this is demonstrably false, but I thought I'd just put it out there. So for a while now, I've been trying (and failing) to wrap my brain around just what the heck is going on with Autonomy and why she seems to be acting so contrary to at least reasonable conceptions of what her intent would seem to indicate. What we seem to know about her is that 1) she's 'spreading' from planet to planet and installing avatars of her Investiture on them, whatever exactly that means, 2) she tends to discourage if not outright forbid in the case of Taldain any access to or from the planets under her dominion (pun definitely intended), and 3) that she tends to inspire or deliberately set herself or her avatars up as objects of worship among those on her planets. This has always struck me as extremely bizarre behaviour for the Shard of Autonomy, for which really only (2) could be argued as unsurprising. But then I remembered that there was a WOB in which someone had asked Brandon whether Autonomy was involved in the splintering of Devotion and Dominion, and Brandon answered in the affirmative, albeit only after they rephrased the question to be extremely broad to prevent him from RAFOing it on the spot ("was Autonomy involved in any way), which is so vague as to be compatible with practically anything, but oh well, just consider that one of the unproven assumptions of this theory. What occurred to me is that it almost seems like Autonomy is displaying behaviour consistent with and expected by Dominion and Devotion (albeit interpreted in the sense of 'subservience' and 'sycophantism' rather than 'love and compassion' as Aona seems to). That is to say, I don't think any of us would have been at all surprised to have learned that Dominion liked to spread from planet to planet and claim them for itself, or that a less benevolently-interpreted Devotion would like to set themself up as an object of worship and reverence, but that Autonomy would do those things is, at the very least, somewhat more surprising simply by virtue of it not being as expected given that Shardic intent. So my question is this: IF we assume for the sake of argument that Autonomy was in some way involved with the deaths of Devotion and Dominion, or of disposing of their 'remains' afterward so to speak, is there any chance that the uncontained Investiture of Dominion and Devotion could have in some sense 'contaminated' Autonomy's own Investiture (and maybe even Odium too for all we know, since he's really no different, just even worse) to some extent and instilled into her these tendencies that would be more expected for those two Shards? I mean she clearly doesn't hold their full Shards, that's not what I'm suggesting, but it doesn't seem entirely outside the realm of possibility that when the Investiture of two Shards comes into contact, for lack of a better term, some limited degree of melding occurs (it certainly did in Harmony's case, admittedly through completely different means). Looked at in this way, Autonomy's behaviour would no longer seem quite so counter-intuitive. She'd effectively be a single Shard in terms of power, but possess in addition to her primary attribute, a limited extent of two other Shards as well. Though admittedly, an obvious inconsistency with this theory is that Ruin and Preservation's Investiture had clearly been 'in contact' before and yet neither of them displayed any sort of 'intent blending', so clearly if this has any merit at all it would require the additional assumption that something different and possibly unique occurred on Sel that simply hasn't occurred since. Exactly what this is, I don't know. Does anyone have any thoughts?
  15. I admit right off the bat that at this point this is almost entirely a matter of conjecture, since there isn't really a shred of hard evidence for it one way or another, but I thought I'd put it out there and see what everyone thinks. As per Oathbringer, we know that the Unmade Sja-anat wants to defect from Odium (or at least that's what she has claimed, and for the sake of argument I'm just going to assume that this isn't merely a ploy and that she is being genuine), and that she seemingly aided Kaladin, Adolin and Shallan by preventing the Oathgate she had corrupted from killing them. And that got me thinking: Sja-anat, along with the other Unmade, are supposedly Splinters of Odium's power that gained sentience (at least in the case of some of the Unmade) or else were deliberately created by Odium, which should mean that they would share Odium's general nature, but from what we've seen this doesn't appear to necessarily be the case with Sja-anat; she seems to be fighting to free herself from Odium's influence. Ironically, it would almost seem like the corrupter is itself corrupted, or at least in the process of it. So if this is true, and admittedly this does depend on a number of unproven assumptions, it begs the question of what exactly could be behind this. Honor? Possibly, though I personally don't think so, because corrupting Sja-anat so as to make her betray Odium doesn't really seem like it would be consistent with what we know of Honor's nature. Cultivation? Again, possible, and in my opinion far more likely than Honor. But what if it's another Shard altogether? A Shard who most people assume is an ally (albeit probably in a very loose way) of Odium and whose Shardic Intent would certainly seem to be compatible with 'corrupting' something with the desire for freedom and individuality. Might it be that Autonomy isn't quite as sympathetic to Odium's cause as she would have him believe? Like I said earlier, at this point this is purely conjecture. However, we do know that in spite of what she would have others believe, Autonomy has no qualms about meddling in the affairs of other worlds, including other worlds that have Shards, if we assume that she is the one behind the opposition of Harmony on Scadrial. So, is it really that big of a stretch to assume that maybe she's meddled on Roshar as well? Could it be that Autonomy is subtly opposing Odium by 'infecting' one of his greatest servants with a spark of her own power? At this point, I honestly don't know, and I'm by no means convinced of this (in fact, I honestly think it's probably more likely false than true). But it would have a certain poetic form of irony if it did turn out to be true.
  16. I think the religion of the Purelake referenced in WoK Ishikk interlude is related to Autonomy because it has certain similarities to Trelagism on Scadrial. Both religions have jealous siblings that have to be avoided by followers when trying to worship their chosen god. The Trelagists have to worship Trell at night because the jealous brother is blocking the stars during the day. In the Purelake they can only worship in grottos, perhaps because they are underground and suffiiciently out of view of the stars/sun? I am thinking Autonomy's avatars don't always get along and compete for worshipers and attention.
  17. @Calderis and I recently discussed the nature of Avatars on Discord. We ended up agreeing on some points and disagreeing on others. I thought the discussion interesting enough to share and memorialize here. Autonomy creates Avatars like Patji on First of the Sun. She finds deposits of the assigned Investiture she inherits from Adonalsium and infuses them with consciousness. The Avatars become autonomous actors. We don't know the degree of each Avatar’s autonomy. I think Cal and I agree: 1. Avatars share Autonomy’s pool of Spiritual Realm Investiture with her. 2. Avatar creation doesn’t change the aggregate amount of Autonomy’s Spiritual Realm Investiture available for magic. 3. As a logical corollary to the first two points, each new Avatar proportionally reduces how much Spiritual Realm Investiture is theoretically available to each previous Avatar and to Autonomy herself. 4. Avatars seem more powerful than most splinters. We disagree on these points: 5. Cal and @Spoolofwhool think Autonomy grants consciousness by implanting a seed of her mind into her found Investiture. They believe this “mind-split” is what allocates Autonomy’s power (her capacity to make magic), since cosmere power tends to be proportionate to the mind that wields it. They say Autonomy deliberately weakens her own mind (in small increments) to install this power balance. I instead think Autonomy programs a consciousness for each Avatar from raw Spiritual Realm Investiture and leaves her mind intact. IMO, Bavadin has no reason to diminish her finite mental capacity when she can use her infinite raw Investiture for the same purpose. Knowing Odium is on the prowl, why would Bavadin weaken herself in favor of her Avatars, who are localized on their Shardworlds? 6. Cal says Autonomy has more Spiritual Realm Investiture “available for use” than any other Shard. He attributes this to the Avatars. I agree Autonomy and her Avatars can collectively drain their Spiritual Realm Investiture pool at a faster rate than other Shards can. That’s the benefit of multiple minds directing the Investiture – it’s like inserting more straws into a drink. But since the aggregate volume of the Investiture pool remains constant, I disagree more Investiture is “available for use.” (Cal tells me he does not think “available for use” and “faster draw rate” are the same thing.) 7. Cal believes Avatars share a single Spiritual aspect with Autonomy, though each Avatar has its own Cognitive aspect. He says Radiant spren have a different Cognitive aspect from their Knight, and the Nahel bond nonetheless merges their souls. Cal analogizes this “one soul – two minds” to Avatars. I think each Avatar has its own Spiritual aspect. I believe every mind that imprints Investiture has its own soul. Each Avatar’s separate soul is made from Autonomy. They're probably Connected to one another and Autonomy in other ways. But IMO these Connections don’t cause the Avatars to share a Spiritual aspect any more than an honorspren made from Honor’s Investiture is part of Honor’s soul. I also think the Avatar-Radiant spren analogy breaks down because KR-spren minds and souls don’t fully merge until the KR swears the Fifth Oath (IMO). 8. I think splinters and Avatars have different origins. (I’m not sure what Cal believes about this.) Splinters are bits of raw Spiritual Realm Investiture that develop sentience (sometimes on their own, sometimes granted by Shards). Avatars are deposits of Autonomy’s Investiture Adonalsium left on Shardworlds to which Autonomy grants consciousness. IOW, splinters descend from the Spiritual Realm while Avatars incorporate Investiture that already exists in all three Realms. * * * * * Please add your opinions. Cal, did I express your views accurately?
  18. With such a Powerful shard (Odium), his eternal agents (The Fused), it easy for us not to see a sleeping Giant : the ghostbloods. They seem all knowing , way too informed , a pragmatic to the point it’s scary! Now they want Shallan to convince Ska-Amat to come to their side? This is the. Unmade that was reputed the most feared by the Radiants . What the heck do the Ghostbloods want with SJ ? Whats even scarier how do they even know that Shallan made contact with her? Nobody was on that platform But Azure, Shallan, Adolin, Kaladin , and maybe some members of bridge 4 and maybe few freed house guards . Who could of got word back to them ? Yo shallan is talking to an unmade named Sja-anat. We should look into that . At first I thought this smells just like the set on Scadrial ! I started wondering if the Ghostbloods are being ran by Autonomy . Unless the ghostbloods have a shard behind them what do they have to offer Sja-Anat. If Odium takes back his power she is destroyed. Unless she find another shard to fuel her life essence. Anyways I looked up WoB and only found one that. Says they have communicated with the Ghostbloods. So perhaps that’s not it. Then I thought about Kelsier ! He might know a way to keep Ska-Anat. Tethered . So I searched him on WoB and ran into a wall Of Rafo . So without doing a bunch of speculating . Let’s just ask Two questions . What do the Ghostbloods want with Sj ? And are the Ghostbloods setting themselves up to Rule. Roshar once the battle of shards is over? Thoughts?
  19. I did a search on the forums and haven't found anyone asking, who is "the series" that Suit mentions near the end of BoM? Is this maybe the off world red eyes organization, and the set is the on world branch? Or is it simply another rank? I also can't help but notice the math/numerology language: series, set, sequence, array...(suit is the only small outlier, but I just might not know the reference). Does this smell like autonomy? ....maybe?
  20. We see on multiple worlds that the intent of a Shard is directly related to how the magic system on that world functions: Awakening on Nalthis is the giving of Breath to something else; bonding a spren on Roshar requires honoring oaths; end-positive Allomancy and end-negative Hemalurgy on Scadrial; etc. So, how is Sand Mastery related to the intent of Autonomy?
  21. Brandon says the Shattering assigned all existing Investiture to one of the Shards. I believe Roshar, the planet’s land mass, is assigned to Autonomy. “Somebody” raised that land mass from the sea just like Autonomy’s avatar raised Patji. Because I believe the “Spren of Stone” is the third Sibling, I think that Sibling now belongs to Autonomy. Analysis I quote the relevant WoBs below. Bracketed numerals refer to that numbered WoB. Roshar is “a pretty weird planet…a created planet.” [1.] To me, this implies Adonalsium may have created Roshar after the cosmere’s creation. Roshar specifically incorporates Adonalsium’s “touch and design.” The Eila Stele names the Singer gods “spren, stone, and wind.” Most believe the wind and spren are the Stormfather’s and Nightwatcher’s pre-Shattering predecessors. I agree with posters who think the third Sibling is the Spren of Stone. I think the Spren of Stone is the Rosharan continent’s consciousness. I believe the figure hovering above the blue disk with outstretched arms in Urithiru’s basement is that consciousness, as it raises the continent from Roshar’s oceans (the disk). The Spren of Stone IMO is the “somebody” who specifically designs and creates Roshar’s land mass according to fractal mathematics principles. [2, 3.] The continent surfaces from Roshar’s oceans after the planet’s creation. (The Horneater Peaks above the crem-line hold slate, a sedimentary rock. [6.]) I suspect Szeth’s “great spren of the mountains,” his people’s aboshi, is another name for (or a subspren of) the Spren of Stone. Kaladin notices Kholinar’s windblades resemble Urithiru’s striations, maybe another manifestation found near every Oathgate city. Highstorms bury the continent in crem. [4.] Even pre-Shattering crem carries Invested nutrients, supporting native flora and farmers. [9, 10.] Rosharans don’t know, or even ask, where crem comes from. [8.]. “On Roshar…environmental factors ARE magical components.” [7.] I think crem now comes from Autonomy. It’s the same pattern as Taldain (IMO). Invested water circulates through the atmosphere. On Taldain, solar radiation Invests the oceans, which the natural water cycle distributes. On Roshar, the highstorm distributes crem gathered from Roshar’s oceans. We don’t know the source of crem’s oceanic Investiture – could it come from Roshar’s sun? And could Dysian Aimians now be of Autonomy? They too are a magic-wielding autonomous consciousness. Their magic broadly resembles Sand Mastery. Both cause remote objects to take a commanded shape. A Dysian does that with his body parts, not microflora. Something to chew on, maybe… I do think Autonomy will yet be moved to look at Rosharan events. If Bavadin hasn’t already, she/he may soon realize the scope of her Investiture there. I believe we’ve been “foreshadowed.” Relevant WoBs 1. Roshar is “a pretty weird planet…a created planet.” Source. 2. Roshar “is modeled after the Julia Set. Which is meant to indicate that Roshar was designed specifically…[and not] through crem buildup.” Source. 3. “The whole idea that this is a fractal-- The whole point of that is, somebody built this. Somebody built this using mathematics that you know. They said ‘Oh. Boom. Bing!’ and grew themselves a continent.” Source. 4. “The geography on Roshar was developed as a natural outgrowth of the highstorm…. I had to find a mechanism by which stone was deposited by rain, because I felt that the constant weathering over that long of a time would leave no continents…. They don't have plate tectonics. The continent actually moves as it gets weathered on the east and gets pushed that direction over millennia of time.” Source. 5. Roshar’s continent is not composed solely of crem. Source. 6. “Horneater peaks you're probably going to get into some more slate, some more dark grays and things like this, weathered stone that doesn't have the crem buildup because the peaks are gonna pop up above where the crem is building up, so.” Source. 7. “On Roshar, the environment and magic are so intertwined, environmental factors ARE magical components.” Source. 8. Where crem comes from is “one of the greater mysteries. Far in the future, scientists on Roshar will start asking that same question.” Source. Brandon RAFOs whether the Everstorm creates crem. Source. 9. “Even pre-Shattering [stormwater] would get a metallic taste, that's the crem. So. That is an indication of Investiture and things. But it was there – It was in place first, before.” Source. 10. “[Both natural flora and farmers] have to get all of [their] minerals and things basically have to come from the crem.” Source. 11. Brandon says crem is “more like Shard poop” than spren poop, though it’s “not really poop.” Sources One and Two. He also laughs off the question whether Lift’s “metabolic waste” holds crem but doesn’t specifically RAFO it. Source.
  22. I want to try to answer and identify any and all possible avatars of Autonomy throughout the Cosmere as possible. Be warned: possible spoilers. To preface, if you are unsure of what I’m talking about, it has been hinted at in books and mentioned by Brandon that Bavadin splits up their identity in a way similar to shallan (almost!) and spreading out, “colonizing” the Cosmere. current list — Patji: located on First of the Sun, has enough investiture in one place to have a functioning perpendicularity and be considered “a shard” with an asterisk of course. Considered to have writes the first OB letter. — Obrodai: nameless for now; was stated by Patji that a “manifestation of our being” is forming there (Obrodai). — Trell: a mysterious being worshipped by Miles Hundredlives. Location: Scadrial. — Taldain: the planet where most of Autonomy’s power is centralized. Where Bavadin the true vessel is said to be. — other: it has been stated by Brandon that there are pantheons where every person worshiped is Bavadin.
  23. Recently on Reddit, somebody mentioned that Autonomy's investure doesn't empower sapient beings directly. 1. On Taldain, the sunlight contains investure that energizes microscopic lichen in the sand. Sandmastery is the manipulation of these organisms, but as far as I can tell, involves little to no flow of investure through ones self. 2. On Patji, Avien are formed when normal birds eat the grubs in the Eye of Patji. Notably, there is no effect if a human were to consume said grubs. I believe that this is intentional on the part of Autonomy, and I believe that I know the reason why. We know from Oathbringer that Autonomy is leaving sentient splinters of herself around the cosmere. From Secret History, we know that a share cannot be taken up without significant connection to it. As there is more Autonomy to go around, the likelihood that someone could eventually take up a splinter is higher. Autonomy tries to limit others connection to it, either as a precaution or simply due to her intent, by providing this buffer between her magic and the people of the cosmere.
  24. So this is theory is just completely out there and a wild guess without much evidence to go on. Basically I theorize that "What If Obrodai is the planet where Dark One takes place?". We don't know much about Dark One other than that it's cosmere and the main character is destined to destroy the world. Based on the evidence from the second letter Obrodai is a shardworld or at least has a splinter of a shard/shardic presence. Due to its correlation with a shard that makes it a candidate for future books and stories and I really don't have anymore evidence than that. It's mostly just intuition honestly, not really a true theory. Well let me know what you think, and if you have any counter arguments or other ideas to add.
  25. Potential Oathbringer Spoilers So this is very much a crackpot theory, and I highly doubt this is actually the case. But let me explain. Brandon has stated that gender does not need to be associated much with Bavadin, stating that entire Pantheons are in fact Autonomy's Shardholder. And in the second letter in Oathbringer, it is assumed that Bavadin wrote it. The way she/he referred to itself was as "We", due to the various personalities it seems to have split itself into with its potential empire of planets. This is very much a guess, but could Bavadin have had a split personality disorder? And when Bavadin ascended, these different personalities multiplied into the different avatars that now rule and are worshipped across the cosmere. Could this have been a side effect of Ascending, or is it just something that is potentially unique to the Autonomy Shard? Thoughts?