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Found 200 results

  1. InMistborn Secret Story, Kelsier uses an artifact to ascend to Preservation, this changes a lot of what we knew about the shards, so: Could they change hands without the death of the shard's bearer?
  2. "Creation: Spren are generally the personification of certain ideals and cognitive concepts" (coopremind). So if humans (or other sentient species) imagined a God out of nothing, with divine characteristics, eventually this Spren would be "created", then you would, eventually have a second Adonalsium... Or I'm wrong?
  3. Adonalsium was a hunk of sapient god-metal, hence the name. this is similar to spren when they manifest in the physical realm. Discuss.
  4. Hi, I'm new here and to anything online regarding the Cosmere. If these have been answered, please still let me know because I'm so curious. 1) If shards created the planets mirroring the original, how did the planets and their inhabitants without shards come to be? 2) The original planet that the shards mirror is not known. Hoid mentions dogs which I don't recall being in any Cosmere books. Have I missed the any mention of dogs? 3) In Shadows of Silence is the spiritual realm overlapping the physical? If so, does gold hold a specific investiture that wards the dead (harm them)? 4) Why don't the heralds inhabit a physical body like the fused do? 5) Since the fused inhabit a body, does that mean that they can go off world, unlike the harolds? 6) If the Shards left the worlds would the same lore and investitures exist? 7) Would the Lopen and Wax be best friends, or instantly weary of eachother? 8) MY MOST PERTINANT QUESTION: Are there any organizations, dragons, beings, or people, that are trying to gather the shards and put Adonalsium back together?
  5. Another theory here, so I was wondering if it would be possible for there to be a anti-version of investiture, shards, and Adonalsium. We see anti-light in RoW and its effect on normal light and invested beings, being capable of killing Heralds, Fused, and Radiant spren. This aligns with anti-matter in real life where, if it comes into contact with its opposite (like oxygen and anti-oxygen) it explodes in a massive explosion. This symmetry might suggest that there could be an ultimate foe in the form of some sort of anti-adonalsium which could be a reason that they need to bring the shards back together and reform adonalsium. What are your thoughts on this?
  6. How will the Cosmere story end? Will there still be shards? Here is a list of possibilities for discussion. Adonalsium is re-formed with a new vessel. Adonalsium is re-formed without a vessel. The shards continue. The shards continue, but without vessels. The shards are splintered. All investiture, including shards, is destroyed, possibly by Nightblood. Any other possibilities? What do you think will happen?
  7. I'm not super good at making and explaining my theories, but here goes... I think that in the latter half of the series, Dalinar will become the Shard Unity (Honor, Odium and Cultivation combined) (or War (Honor and Cultivation), if Unity isn't possible). Dalinar has big ideals about unifying everything. I think that during the latter half of the series, the Stormfather will somehow become Honor, Dalinar will continue to be Bonded to the Stormfather, but in a different way--he's the Vessel of Honor. He's going to kill Taravangian and beat Odium, but I don't think that it will end there. Instead of attempting to Shatter Odium, he will try to take over the power, becoming the Shard of War. After that, he's going to continue to try to unify Roshar by taking over Cultivation's powers, becoming Unity. He won't stop there, and attempt to Unify the whole Cosmere (with Cephandrius' help, of course). Eventually, he will become the new Adonalsium unless the rest of the Cosmere has anything to say about it. I know I'm not providing evidence, but it just makes sense in my head and it's kind of hard to explain it. If anyone wants to improve and shoot down this theory, feel free (basically, feedback is very wanted, be it good or bad). If anyone can find more evidence, please tell me so that I can put that in. If anyone wants to just rewrite it but better, that's awesome. Thanks!
  8. In some of the books, we see that Adonalsium is referred to as "Ado". This is an affectionate nickname one would give to a normal person, not an all encompassing omnipotent immortal being. Raboniel says it, and as said before, one should have a connection with that person to call them a nickname, at least be friends. We also have this small piece of evidence. "You will give your soul to me....You will join the Fused" [ROW p1177]. This shows that a human can become a fused and maybe the singers are just humans that evolved on Roshar to fit the landscape (a little fan theory of mine...) SO what if Raboniel knew "Ado" and after the shattering became one of the fused under Rayse's supervision etc. So, all I wanted to say is: Singers could be an evolved human variant Adonalsium could be just a normal guy with an incredible amount of Investiture Raboniel could have been Adonalsium's friend at some point. Also, as an afterpoint, Raboniel could have wanted to betray Rayse because he killed her friend Adonalsium...
  9. I have heard it mention off-hand... What evidence etc. do we have?
  10. There's been a few "sorting the shards into quadrants" "sorting the shards into quadrants and trying to find matching Dawnshards" and similar posts recently, and while I absolutely love reading those, this post is here for less linear thoughts about Adonalsium and the missing shards, but missing shards nonetheless. Let's stop with the preambling and get to what I want to get to: ODIUM and what it means for ADONALSIUM. Let's start by looking at one of the (imho) coolest quote of all the cosmere: Emphasis mine. Source: Refresher: this is from one of the letters in reply to Hoid, so probably from either a shard or another old, cosmere-aware figure like Frost. So, for the sake of argument, let's assume what they write can be treated as fact. This quote has stuck with me, among others because it makes Odium such an interesting foe and such a cool idea: The hatred of a God, without all the rest of God. I want to talk about this quote some more. Let's reiterate three things: 1. Adonalisum was shattered into 16 pieces. As far as we know, there's no Debris or anything like that left. They're 16 pieces of a whole. Those could have been split up differently, but weren't. It's not a little god with 1/16th of all of Adonalsiums properties, but with ALL of 1 of 16 properties (or 2, in Harmonys case). 2. Rayse Odium calls himself Passion and sais that that's what they are. Passion. Emotion. He even tells Dalinar that he's the only one of the gods that understands human emotion, that knows it. 3. Despite this, everyone else more or less agrees that Odium is first and foremost Hatred. The way he is described in text and in universe is as seething, hating, hot and burning and hateful. Now, what am I trying to say: What does this mean for Adonalsium? Well, one of multiple things. That depends on what the last two shards are. We know almost nothing about Adonalsium, yet, sadly. But here's my thoughts, which I hope to make understandable: I really hope atleast one of the last two shards is an emotion. Something like "Love" is a common guess, but even just something like "Care" or "Charity" (which the ancient greeks would argue was one of multiple forms of love anyway). Seriously. Because if there isn't another Emotion-Shard, then Rayse/Passion is right. In that it isn't just Hate, but all emotions/passions. Or rather, all the emotions/passions Adonalsium was capable of. It's why I refer to it as Passion in the title of this post. Let's look at the quote about it again: Virtues. Not "other emotions." Now, we can argue that Virtues are an emotional thing, but I think the semantics are clear. The letter doesn't say "without the other emotions." or, the very clear thing many religions irl share: "His Love" There's a few conclusion to be drawn from this, and I will list those in a second, but I want to first look at the shards again to underline this. Virtues: Honor, Autonomy, Ambition, Mercy, Valor, (Wisdom, Prudence) Divine Properties: Endowment, Dominion, Devotion, maybe Cultivation? Forces of Creation/Nature: Preservation, Ruin, maybe Cultivation? Uh, no idea: Whimsy, Invention. To be clear: This isn't supposed to be a sorting or anything like that. I don't think this is how the shards are grouped or even if they are grouped. The point of this list is to drive home the point that none of these are emotions. There sure are some Virtues, especially Honor and Mercy and Wisdom stand out as ones that sound like they would give Odium much needed context. But, again, none of these are emotions. (Is bravery an emotion? I wouldn't say so. Semantics, maybe) This leads me to a few possible conclusions: 1: One of the two so far unknown shards is also about emotions. Especially "Love" or one of its derivatives would of course fit a God the way we on earth imagine it well, and would make a good counter to Odium. I know there aren't clear pairs, but another shard of emotion would mean Adonalsium had atleast two different distinct emotions or emotional states. Because otherwise... 2a: (Odium is the only Emotion Shard and Rayse is lying about Odium = Passion) Adonalsium was a deeply hateful being. If it was shattered into 16 Aspects of its being, and only one of them is emotion, and that is pure Odium, Adonalsium must have been hateful in the same fulfilling, allencompassing way that Odium is. If Odium is "Just Adonalsiums Hatred without The Rest" and none of "The Rest" are emotions, then Adonalsium felt basically the same way that Odium does. Hate with a hint of Anger for a rare change. Even the better version of this isn't much better: 2b: (Odium is the only Emotion Shard and Rayse is right about Odium = Passion) Adonalsium was a deeply hateful being anyway. If Odium is the only emotion shard, and is not "God's own Divine Hatred" but rather "God's own Divine complex emotions", then well, Adonalsiums complex emotions must still have been hugely dominated by Hate. 3: Odium is all emotion that Adonalsium could feel and just got the way it is after the Shattering. Maybe "God's Divine Passions/Emotions" is up to interpretation the way Ruin could be slow decay or active Catastrophes, and it got interpreted into Odium. Then again, it sounds like Odium went on his killing spree pretty quickly after the Shattering, so it's not like he started out loving and jolly and became bitter and hateful with lots of time. (4: Adonalisum wasn't a being in the same way that we humans are, its/their emotional state is not really understandable with human understanding of emotion. We don't even know if Adonalsium had a person/vessel/personality/anything, for all we know it could have been a machine or mechanism or a force of nature more than an entity. Does a poisonous plant feel hate when it kills you for eating it? Does a storm, or a robot that was tasked to protect something when it hurts those that try to interfere with its task? Maybe Adonalsium didn't feel much, so much of what it was was Creation, and to argue about Adonalsiums Emotional landscape is futile? The only things we can assume to know are that It experienced bravery, it showed mercy, it cultivated, preserved, and destroyed things, it dominated and was devoted, it invented, it was whimsical, it wanted to survive, it was ambitious, it was autonomous, it endowed things, and: It felt Hate/it hated.) I personally hope for the former for the sake of our heroes and everyone in the cosmere, but let's continue the thoughts based on 2a and 2b for now, because there's some thought that might make these ones more likely. Whether or not Rayse was right is kind of irrelevant. Whether or not Adonalsium felt only Odium or Passion, if that 16th of Adonalsium that was/is Passion was the way back then it is now, well, Adonalsiums emotional landscape was a bad one. Even with the "context", as in "the virtues that gave it context", it doesn't paint the nices picture of the Cosmere's old God. If it's Wisdom keeping Adonalsiums Hate in check then that sounds like they came to the conclusions it's not smart to destroy everything. If it's Honor, then Adonalsiums is sparing lives because of some Oaths or feeling of duty. Cool, I guess. Not kindness, though. Mercy is the biggest candidate for a counterweight, but that to me has bully-vibes still. "I want to kill you tbh but I'm sparing you because I'm so mercyfull" isn't exactly kind either, is it? If that's what Adonalsium was right, then no wonder that a group of people came to conclusion it had to be destroyed. (And if Rayse was an evil leaning person before the Shattering, then no wonder he wanted that Shard in particular. Sounds like one of the few they'd be sure to exist afterwards.) Long, long post. If you read this far, thanks for sticking with it. I'm intrigued if other people thing my argument is conclusive at all, an what your thoughts about this are. Will we get another Emotion Shard? Will we not, and Adonalsium was very hateful? Is it futile to imagine Adonalsiums Emotions the way neurotypical Human Emotions work? Or another possible answer?
  11. Main theory The Cosmere as a whole is a large story full of smaller stories. The story is supposed to have an ending, and in my opinion there is only one ending that works thematically to the story that starts with the shattering of Adonalsium: namely the re-unification of all the shards. There are several WoBs regarding if this is possible or not. Brandon often responds to questions in a vague manner, like that some (in-world) believe it possible but that it would be hard. My interpretation of that is that not any not-a-man with a couple of shards could do it. You would need to not only be able to reform splintered shards but also pick up shards that you lack connection with. In other words, you would need some kind of extra connection power. Some kind of power capable of uniting (or bonding) the shards together. You would need something like… a bondsmith. Let’s move on to the most controversial part of this theory, the interaction between Dalinar and Odium at the climax of Oathbringer: In this moment I believe that Odium is talking about Adonalsium, not Honor. I believe that Adonalsium is the name of the vessel, and the title of Adonalsium is Unity. This explains Odium’s momentary loss of control. For a split second he believes that somehow, no matter how implausible, Adonalsium is actually alive. This thought terrifies him. Soon afterwards he regains his senses. All the “Unite them” commands that Dalinar hears refer to uniting all the shards of Adonalisum. This is a very well executed escalation of storytelling, something Brandon is very fond of: First we interpret it as uniting the highprinces. Then as uniting all the kingdoms of Roshar. Then as uniting the splinters of Honor. Then as uniting all the shards of Roshar. Then finally as uniting all shards of Adonalsium. Dalinar will go on a quest to unite all shards of the Cosmere, his main opposition being Harmony (soon to be Discord). However, what happens when he picks up each new shard? Is he supposed to come up with a new name matching all the different shards’ intents that he currently holds? No. When Dalinar picks up the three shards of Roshar he will take the title of Unity even though he does not have all the required shards. Dalinar must pick up the fallen title of Adonalsium (Unity). The tower (towerlight), the crown (TBA, voidlight+lifelight) and the spear (warlight). These are all the combinations of the Rosharan shards that Dalinar will end up taking, which will probably be the end of SA10. He will call himself Unity, but he will be a less perfect version. You might even call him a broken version of Unity. The Cosmere wide war will be that of Unity versus Discord: quite the poetic pairup, and it fits well thematically with the Cosmere-wide plot. The shattered shards represent discord in the Cosmere. All (and none) of the Shards are evil because they are all extreme versions of their intent without other characteristics to balance them out. The only chance for stability and unity in the Cosmere lies with Unity. Bonus: The first chapter where Dalinar is introduced is called Unity. TLDR: Dalinar reforms Unity (Adonalsium) and restores stability to the Cosmere Side theory: Adonalsium’s plan There are multiple instances where we see that Shards are capable of creating huge complex plans that manage to outmanoeuvre other Shards. Most famously how Preservation’s plan worked for millenia to result in Harmony. Cultivation also set pieces into motion to have Rayse replaced by Taravangian. So far, the destruction of all the vessels we have seen has come from the intervention of another Shard. This begs the question: How could Adonalisum, holder of all 16 Shards, holder of the most powerful foresight powers to ever exist, be caught by surprise by a couple of mortals? Even if those mortals had Dawnshards to help them? What if Adonalsium was not caught by surprise? What if… Adonalsium planned for the shattering and set in motion a huge and complex plan to have all the pieces reunited again? What if creating Roshar was an essential part of that plan? TLDR: All the stories of the Cosmere have been part of Adonalsium's plan with the end goal of re-uniting all shards. Side theory: Adonalsium is not dead as long as he lives in the hearts of men I have previously pitched the idea that Dalinar currently has (or has access to) the Dawnshard of Uniting. This would be the voice speaking in his mind and the warmth he senses at times. However, Dalinar does not exhibit all the signs of holding a Dawnshard. Allow me to quote Brandon: There is a striking resemblance to the name of Unity and a Dawnshard that desires uniting. What if during the shattering of Adonalsium he imprinted on one of the Dawnshards? In a process similar to how cognitive shadows are created, parts of the vessel Adonalisum still exist fused with the Dawnshard. The voice that Dalinar hears could then possibly be the voice of Adonalsium himself, expertly pulling the strings in the background. This could also be the key that helps with picking up shards to which Dalinar lacks proper connection. TLDR: Adonalsium still lives in some form inside on of the Dawnshards. Bonus death rattle: If crown truly refers to (voidlight+lifelight) in the death rattle higher up then this could possibly refer to Odium (the darkness) picking up Cultivation and forming some shard that is related to ruling, giving the name of that specific light.
  12. You need a significant connection to a Shard to become a vessel of that Shard, right? Does that mean that you would need connection to all Shards to become a vessel of Adonalsium? Or would you need connection to Adonalsium somehow? Something else? This might limit who could ascend to Adonalsium quite severely, depending on the answer to my next question. In order to have a connection to a Shard, do you simply need to act in line with that Shards intent, or do you need to connect with it on some other level. For instance, could someone from Roshar be really devoted on Roshar, then travel to Sel and ascend to Devotion (assuming anyone can ascend to Devotion), or would you have to be really devoted on Sel and connect with Devotion's investiture there before you could ascend? If you need to be on the same planet as the Shard, which I think you would, then only worldhoppers could conceivably ascend to Adonalsium. And what worldhoppers have become solidly Invested from Shards on multiple worlds? As far as I recall, we only know of one: Hoid. Hoid has access to Surgebinding, Awakening, and Allomancy, and possibly other Invested arts. Does this have something to do with Hoid's goal? Is Hoid trying to ascend to Adonalsium? This seems out of character for Hoid, who has never shown interest in ruling others, but perhaps he has motivations we don't know about. Whether Hoid is trying to ascend to Adonalsium or not, he may end up being the only person who can, and I suspect that when it is both necessary and possible, he will do so. Hoid will become Adonalsium. What do you think? Do you need connection to all Shards to become Adonalsium? If so, what kind of connection? Does this suggest anything about Hoid?
  13. Hello all, I just finished listening to the Old Cosmere Theories Shardcast from last year. I've got a theory cooking in my head and could use some help validating or poking holes in it! Theory: The Sleepless will be the mechanism to reform Adonalsium and will be the primary antagonist against Hoid in the endgame of the Cosmere Supporting Evidence: A vessel picking up a shard requires a sapient being in the Physical Realm. The Sleepless are sapient beings in the Physical realm. A vessel must have sufficient Connection to a shard to hold it. A being can be Connected to multiple shards. * Connection can be tied to an area (ex. Shardworlds) in the Physical Realm. This can cause beings that are heavily invested to be "stuck" in a specific location. * The Sleepless are Cosmere aware and have the ability to world hop. Connection can be inherited. * The Sleepless can selectively breed hordelings for a purpose. * The Sleepless bodies are thousands of hordelings, sharing a single mind. * There is an underlying theme of Identity and self-perception in the Cosmere. A table does not think of itself as multiple pieces of wood or nails. It sees itself as a whole. Hordelings have the ability to separate from the hive mind to operate autonomously, presumably changing their self-perception and Idenity in their spirit web. * They can even lose contact Cognitively. * Sleepless reproduce by forming multiple beings from their existing horde, meaning (presumably) all Sleepless are ancestors of a single original swarm. Through a mental link (presumably in the Cognitive Realm) they can communicate with other swarms. The Sleepless will play a very important role in Mistborn Era 4 * Hoid will be a main character in Mistborn Era 4 * Hoid's goals are unclear, but he may wish to reform of Adonalsium. Another entity doing so may interfere with his goals. A Hoid/ Sleepless race to collect shards could be a major plot point towards the end of the Cosmere. In plain English: I believe the Sleepless, over thousands of years, will spread across all of the shard worlds, adapting to the local geography, cultures, and magic systems. Independent swarms with be Connected with the local investiture and shardic intent, and when the time is right, they will take up the power of each shard. Once possessing all of the shards, the Sleepless (communicating via their mental link) will re-identify as a single entity, pulling together all of the aspects and powers of Adonalsium. This, IMHO, is the most elegant way to overcome the barriers of a human or dragon reforming Adonalsium, namely geography and Identify. Other facts that seem connected, but I don't know what to do with: The first Sleepless swarm to come to Roshar were said to look like spiders. * Could this play into the Spirit Webs? The Iriali's religion of a single entity breaking into smaller parts to have diverse experiences, only to one day reunite. They are aware of the Sleepless. * In this way, the Sleepless thematically match the shattering of Adonalsium. Known contradictions: The Coppermind says once a vessel ascends, they lose connection with their former species. This is lowercase c connection. I disagree with the interpretation of the WoB, as question was more about classifying the vessel. Bonus Theory: Kelsier will inhabit a Sleepless body and will be that primary antagonist in MBE4 Supporting Evidence: The Ghostbloods have a Sleepless aligned to their cause. Kelsier is bound to Scadrial. Kelsier is known as the "Lord of Scars". Sleepless, when imitating humans, have lines along their body where the hordeling intersect, appearing as either scars or tattoos. Kelsier and Hoid have had conflicts. Hoid considers him very dangerous. * The Set are said to have a longer timeframe for their goals The Set are aligned to Trell (presumably Autonomy) The Sleepless have a long timeframe, taking hundreds of years to selectively breed to meet their needs. * Bonus Theory: Autonomy now, or in the future, will be held by a Sleepless (maybe Patji) Supporting Evidence: Autonomy is referred to with male, female, and non-gendered pronouns. The Sleepless can present themselves as male or female and use non-gendered pronouns. Autonomy has many avatars on many planets The Sleepless are present on multiple planets Autonomy has been known to appear in various forms The Sleepless have the ability to change form by configuring different sets of hordelings Patji (linked to Automony) is a shard of Adonalsium * Patji (the island) has locations named after body parts (ex Eye of Patji, Patji's fingers) Sleepless hordelings have been known to get as big as buildings. Perhaps they could continue to grow to the size of islands. Known contradictions: Brandon was explicitly asked if Bavadin is a hive mind or an Amian, to which he said no. * This question was about Bavadin, not Autonomy. Bavadin's coppermind page lists them as the original and current shard of Autonomy, but the citations don't appear to confirm this. PHEW! That was a lot. I look forward to hearing your thoughts, both confirmative and constructive.
  14. When I was looking at some recent threads theorizing about Unity (basically the only time we ever hear it referenced is when Dalinar says "I am Unity!" at the climax of OB and Rayse says "we killed you!), I realized that I had my own theory - and that it also solved the problem of how Adonalsium was shattered. Before I continue, I would like to state that this isn't just a repeat of the things I said in the "death of Unity" thread - I crafted my thoughts into a full-fledged theory this time. 1. What is Unity? Let's get straight to the point - I believe that Unity is a lot like a Shard, but not - it's more like a binding agent. Like an egg used in baking. It isn't there to taste good, it's there to hold the things that taste good together. By this same logic, Unity is there to hold the Shards of Adonalsium together. I'll get to how it does this later, but the implications for this are pretty staggering. Firstly, it would explain how Adonalsium was shattered - Unity was somehow removed from the equation (e.g. its holder was killed), making Adonalsium's Investiture split into sixteen pieces. There are a couple different options for why it couldn't hold itself together. It could've been in 16 different pieces at the start, or (and I think this is the more interesting option) it could've been too big to hold itself together. Maybe Investiture works in weird ways on a large scale, and Adonalsium is just so Invested that it splits into sixteen different pieces. (I don't actually have any supporting evidence for this, but it sounds plausible). 2. How does it hold things together? I believe that Dalinar's "Bondsmith unchained" powers are, in reality, the part of Unity that he holds. I say "part" because I believe all three Bondsmiths hold a part of Unity. This feels like it could have some prevalence in KoW or back-half Stormlight, or in Era 4, where the reformation of Adonalsium seems like it'll be at least a small plot point. I think this because Dalinar's main power is Connection manipulation, and that's exactly what you'd need to hold Adonalsium together. This could also apply to Ishar's destruction of Ashyn - maybe he removed the Connection between the planet and its magnetic field, or its orbit, or something big. Backing up a little further, I think something from his experimentation allowed him to gain access to the remnants of Unity and somehow piece them back together - again, that's something we'll probably see when the time comes for Herald flashbacks. yeah that's basically it This is all just wiiiiiild speculation. But I think it makes at least a modicum of sense. Let me know your thoughts!
  15. Is Ado a root word? What does it mean? I see it in some major character's names. Adonalsium, Adolin, Ba-Ado Mishram. Or, in the latter two examples, do they simply reference Adonalsium? Or maybe Ado is kind of like Eru in Middle Earth - the God name. What did Eru mean? One? Something like that. In that case, perhaps Ba means Anti or Against or Enemy of. Mishram, enemy of Ado. Speaking of names, Adonalsium sounds like a metal to me. So then, is Ado the name and Adonalsium the metal? Like Leras to Lerasium? Or Ati to Atium? Ooh, I think I'm on to something! Ado is the original holder of god-power. His metal was shattered and taken by the 16. But it is not exactly Ado himself. Hmmm. I like it!
  16. Hello everybody, I'm a newbie to the forums and want to share in on some fan theories and cool Cosmere discussions. I was recently listening to a great podcast, Cosmere Conversations, and it got me thinking... Shard Carry-Ons When beings seize the power of the Shards and ascend to become Vessels, their immediate belongings like clothing and weapons accompany them into some pocket dimension or into the Spiritual Realm. Leras had a knife on him during Secret History. Rayse, Leras, Ati, and Vin materialize with their original clothing once they died. Sazed ascended with his metalminds and was even able to access them. I was incorrect. He tapped them just before ascending and they dropped to the ground. Thanks @LewsTherinTelescope! So, what other carry-on luggage can you bring along on the ride to godhood? Shardblade/Shardplate? Bonded spren/Unmade? Nightblood? Hemalurgic spikes? God metals/Essences? Pancakes? Anti-Light? Restrictions & Resistance So are there any restrictions? Could Investiture or Connection play a role? We see that Vin was unable to ascend until she removed her earring (hemalurgic spike). But Sazed was able to ascend with his heavily Invested metalminds. Perhaps the flavor of Investiture is key? Vin could not seize the power of Preservation (end-positive) because she was holding the power of Ruin (end-negative). Sazed was able to seize the power of both Preservation and Ruin along with his metalminds because Feruchemy is of both Preservation and Ruin (end-neutral)! I'm not sure if there is a connection with Connection here (at least in the relationship between the Invested items and the Shard), since Vin and Sazed would be very Connected with their respective items. Regarding Nightblood near the end of RoW, it's possible (but not explicitly stated) that the sword could have fallen away or out of Taravangian's grasp before he ascended. I don't think Taravangian would have been able to ascend with Nightblood in hand anyway...but perhaps if there was a similar scenario with Endowment instead of Odium... My hypothesis so far based on observations: Attempting to seize the power of a Shard while holding the Investiture of another Shard will be met with resistance. Shard Merging Is Harder Than It Looks We have witnessed only a single Shard merger and it was as easy as picking up the power of both Shards at the same time, right? But could this have been accomplished under different circumstances? Remember the profound resistance that Vin (as Preservation) experiences when trying to attack Ruin? Almost like opposite pushing the same ends of a magnet together. She eventually does attack him in full force, but kills them both in the process - no merging takes place. Did the end-neutral nature of Sazed's Invested metalminds act as a catalyst for the merge? What if he was instead an Allomancer or was spiked or didn't have any relevant Investiture at all? Could a spiked Allomancer take and merge both Shards? I know there is a lot of intentional poetic symbology in Mistborn (Ruin + Preservation = Harmony), but perhaps balance is exactly what's needed for any successful Shard merger. Balanced Investiture We are introduced to balanced or stabilized Investiture combinations in the form of Shardblades (Honor metal + Cultivation metal), Towerlight (Stormlight + Cultivation light), and Warlight (Stormlight + Voidlight). I have a sneaking suspicion that these discoveries in Investiture will have profound importance if these Shards are ever going to merge. We will probably see Navani experimenting with combining all three lights in the next book. Considering Raboniel's doubtful comment on the amount of Anti-Light it would take to destroy Odium, I don't think this path would be pursued. Revised hypothesis: Attempting to seize the power of a Shard will be met with resistance while holding the Investiture of another Shard. Merging multiple Shards will be met with resistance unless holding the combined Investiture of these Shards. Now Some Hot Takes Navani becomes/creates the catalyst to merge Honor, Cultivation, and damnation, maybe even Odium! Hoid has been collecting bits and pieces of Investiture all over the Cosmere. What if he possessed a small bit of Investiture from each Shard and was able to become a Vessel with all these on his person? Would this create a mini-Adonalsium? A "Shard" that isn't actually bound by any singular Intent and has more agency? I don't know but I wanna believe! Sorry for the long rant. Please, share with me your thoughts on all this! Has anyone else here posted some similar nonsense?
  17. Let's talk about The Shattering of Adonalsium. (bit of a long post, I know, but trust me). Now, we can all agree that the Shattering is A Big Deal™ by Cosmere standards, and we've all been dying to get any tidbits as to the how's and why's of such a monumental event. Storms, we barely know the where's and who's! Most we can say is it happened A Long Time ago, in Yolen, and maybe Uncle Andy went along with it? That is why whenever Hoid or Khriss or whoever makes a reference to the Shattering, we pay VERY close attention! We are desperate to know what it looked like, why it happened, how it went about, what everyone in the Cosmere felt, and a million other things. We would love nothing more than a first-hand account of Adonalsium's death. But you know what Brandon gave us instead? Not a recollection of events by a scholar, not exposition by one of the Shards, not the how's or why's or the answer to any of those questions; no, instead of telling us how it looked or sounded or came about, Brandon showed us how the Shattering felt. From Dawnshard, ch. 16: Now I don't know about you folks but to me it seems that the first ever look we get at the Shattering, the first POV from the death of Adonalsium, is in the form of emotions. Those are the emotions that Adonalsium itself felt at the moment of its death. And how amazing is that?! For such a foundational event for the entirety of the Cosmere, we don't get something "normal" like 'Hoid remembered that fatal day, when everything ended' or some "regular" storytelling like that! Any other saga based on such an event would have just released a prequel featuring the Shattering. But instead, we get to experience firsthand what the Shattering felt like. We learn not what was said, nor the details of what transpired, but the feelings of God's death from millenia ago. And that, dear Sharders ,is the most original thing Brandon has ever written. Thanks you for coming to my TED talk.
  18. God What is God actually? Or what is a god? I think about that far too much but I enjoy the thoughts of others. And Brandon did put his thoughts into his books. Some things he did put there intentionally and some probably without thinking about it. I read a lot about similar topics in this forum and i assume that my basic idea was already mentioned but most things I found were older. I am thinking this through while writing it. There will be errors and I hope someone finds them. Gods throughout the history of mankind in the real world I've never met someone who actually believed in one of the ancient gods of the Greek, Egyptians, or Vikings in the way they are represented in the strategy game Age of Mythology. And by my Christian standard the gods in the game are not gods at all. They are not all powerful or all knowing. They are not good. They are more than one entity. They did take on physical forms and sometimes even impregnated women. As somewhat of a christian myself I have to think about Jesus when writing that sentence. He had a physical form, his father was God and he did not seem to be all powerful. But this discussion should not be about him. The ancient pantheons knew many Gods and all of them had a different purpose. The main Greek gods for example are known as the Twelve Olympians. And the ancient gods did always fight or party. There are many great stories about all of them. Gods in the Cosmere as seen by the residents To talk about all of them would probably be more difficult than talking about all of the gods in the real world, but I want to bring up my favorite examples. Blushweaver is called a god, but from my viewpoint she is a resurrected, highly invested, human. The Stormfather is a god for many Rosharans. He is basically a Spren for us. The Heralds are also gods for many Rosharans and I do not know what they are for me, but they are similar to Blushweaver and the Returned. For the Un-Kalaki all Spren are gods. And last but not least there are the Shards and Adonalsium himself. This is more difficult. For someone who believes in the divinity of one of the beings mentioned above the shards would probably be gods too. And Adonalsium as a combination of all of them would logically also count as a god. Many gods becoming one In our world it happened that one religion devoured others. Sometimes a polytheistic religion slowly focused on one of the gods at first and then integrating the aspects of the other gods into the main god. Multiple religions and multiple gods became one god as the only god of one general religion. This happened a lot and is related to other phenomena. If you think about the pyramid (hierarchy) of needs it makes sense to pray for food and shelter at the beginning stage of a developing society. But later those basic needs are fulfilled and love, esteem and self-actualization become more important. Those needs are more abstract than food. This leads to the god, responsible for this need, being more abstract. This is a complicated topic and you can spend years looking into it but my main argument is that in our world multiple religions and gods did unite to become one. The Shattering of Adonalsium In the cosmere the whole topic of religion currently begins with the Shattering of Adonalsium. Adonalsium, an (all-)powerful being was shattered into 16 Shards. Those Shards represent different aspects of the same being. And maybe something important happened with the 4 Dawnshards before that, but this is currently RAFOed as far as I know. Here is where part one of my conclusion starts. The Shattering of Adonalsium is the opposite of what happened in our world. In our world many gods become one. If we think of Adonalsium as a god then his shattering is one god becoming many. And not only Adonalsium did become many gods, but his shards did too. In Greek mythology divinity gets passed on to the children of the god. If both parents are gods, the child is a god too. If only one parent is a god, the child is born as a halfgod. If we use this theory on Roshar, then every Spren is a god. We can argue about how much divinity is needed to actually be called a god, but it is hard to draw a line. So let's just use the easy way and say everything that is pure investiture without a physical form is a god. This would be one easy way to define god in the cosmere. It is clearly not perfect but it is a definition. It is not the definition I would use from an out of world perspective but it would be fine as an inworld one for me. Socrates? What has Socrates to do with that? Socrates asked difficult questions. Imagine someone asking about honor. What is honorful? If you ask many people there will be a consensus on a lot of honorful behaviors. But some things will be contrary. And this thought of contrary views on honorful behavior can be represented by spren. Syl believes that Kaladin is honorful. Other Honorspren may agree or disagree, but no other spren agreed enough to make him a radiant. The part of Honor (and Cultivation maybe) that thought of Kaladin as honorful enough to become radiant is called Syl. So Sy is only a small part of the whole Adonalsium, but a part with power and an opinion. If we say that Adonalsium is the god of the Cosmere we can argue that he did split up himself, his will and his power into many little pieces but those pieces are still the will and power of the whole so every Spren is Adonalsium but Adonalsium is all Sprens and all the other Shards as well. A Spren is then a part of God. It is divine. If we accept that Adonalsium never was all powerful or willingly limited himself that every part of Adonalsium is still God in its essence and Identity. Are Humans Gods now? No. But as mentioned in the cosmere and the real world. There is something special about Humans. In the Cosmere we can add a lot of other beings to the list of special ones. But to keep it easy I´ll just talk about humans. Every human has some kind of divinity. We have souls or something. That's a complicated and abstract philosophical and religious idea. And I will not discuss all world religions at once but most agree that humans are special. The one above all The true God of the Cosmere So even if we do not agree on Adonalsium being a God there is something even deeper than that. If we define God almighty and something that knows everything, the past, the present, the future there is still one being that fits this description. Brandon Sanderson! He created the Cosmere. He created it out of nothing in his mind. He completely decides all physical rules. He can change them anytime, but it would make a worse story. He knows the past of the cosmere and also it’s future. He can do whatever he wants with it. He is almighty in the cosmere. He is God. Of course he is not the god of our real world, but no one in the Cosmere can prove that Brandon exists. He creates characters and tries to make them seem conscious. And he does it so well that they seem real or believable to all of us. But sometimes he has to intervene in the broader story. Intervene in what would normally happen. He creates coincidences that bring the important people together. Someone finds the right book at the right time. People meet randomly or due to mysterious reasons like Hoid. Hoid is somewhat the main way of Brandon to influence the story. And by influencing the story he changes the cosmere itself. And Brandon created the Cosmere in a way that Hoid seems to be real and not divinie. At least not much more divine than many other beings. Hoid can be everyone. He can be beggar on the streets, the king's wit, or just some random traveler you meet at a campfire. But Hoid is always Brandon’s influence. Hoid is in a way the inconspicuous hand of god. And have you ever met a Hoid in your life? Someone who did influence your path through life in a positive way without you noticing it at first? Maybe something that seems unimportant, like a stranger wearing a funny T-Shirt with a joke on it. You meet someone special years later and remember that joke. You tell the joke, one thing leads to another and you are happily married. This is a bad example but it is related to something that actually happened. So the true god of the Cosmere is Brandon Sanderson. He created it and tries to change as few things as possible, even though he knows everything and is almighty. But he influences the people in small but well calculated ways with his delegate that we know a Hoid.
  19. So. I was going through the "Hero of Ages" prophecy and I found the line, "That which has been sundered must again begin to find its whole." (here's a link: Now, supposedly the prophecy is only referring to Sazed, but let's think about it for a bit. "That which has been sundered . . ." (by the way, sundered is a synonym for split.) Well, Harmony wasn't sundered. Adonalsium was sundered. So presumably, this line should be referring to Adonalsium. Which means that "[Adonalsium] must again begin to find its whole." Whole??? Yeah, we saw Ruin and Preservation combine into Harmony. But Harmony isn't whole. Harmony is 1/8th of whole. 12.5%. Therefore, I predict that all the shards of Adonalsium will eventually be collected and fused back together. Seems like a cool way to end the story of the cosmere. I went through the other lines from the prophecy, but those all talk about the Hero directly, and most of them do sound like they refer to Sazed. Although, wouldn't this be fun, what if Sazed isn't the Hero of Ages? He just fits the prophecy well enough that nobody's looking for the Hero anymore. They think it's him, Harmony. When really, it's somebody we haven't been introduced to yet so we can't compare them against the prophecy. I don't know. For now, I'll assume that Sazed is the Hero of Ages, but I am confident that Adonalsium will eventually become Adonalsium again. I mean, Odium already did a good portion of the work. How many shards has he splintered so far? It's at least, like, five. Somebody just needs to go collect the splinters. If Sazed did that, maybe his Intent would change enough to let him be more useful. Anyway, that's all I got.
  20. Here's the inscription Brandon left for me in my copy of Rhythm of War... "Adonalsium was not mad at the Shattering - more sad...'
  21. I theorize... A Command is a directive for Investiture to do something. Intent determines how Investiture does that something. Adonalsium used the four Commands to create the cosmere from raw Investiture. The four Commands are different aspects of one Command: “Create!” “Change” is the process of creation. A second Command relates to the substance/structure Change acts on. A third defines the cosmere’s operating rules that limit Change’s scope. The fourth Command, which @asmodeus first suggested, grants life – sentience. Shard Intents represent different aspects of each Command. What Is a Command? Posters point out how Awakening Commands resemble what I’ll call Divine Commands in this paragraph. The power of an Awakening Command largely depends on how well the Awakener visualizes the Command. Adonalsium's omniscience – the “understanding of a deity” – makes his Divine Command so much more powerful and precise than any Awakening Command could be. Yet text suggests the “Change” Command is the Investiture equivalent of between 50 (aura recognition) and 200 (perfect pitch) Breaths. At most Change equates to 600 Breaths (perfect color recognition). Relationship Between Commands and Intents A Command can direct any Investiture. I believe that Investiture’s Intent determines how the Investiture executes the Command. Example: I think cosmere Change means changing a person or object's Spiritual aspect. To me that involves making, changing, or breaking a person or object’s Connections, or destroying the person/object altogether. I believe Honor, Cultivation, Odium, and Ruin respectively perform those functions. Commanding Honor to Change an object will bind the object to something else. Commanding Cultivation to Change an object will transform the object into something else. Commanding Odium to Change an object will break that object’s Connections to something else (IMO). And Commanding Ruin to Change an object will destroy the object. FWIW, coincidentally (and conveniently) Change and these Shards are now all on Roshar in force, Ruin via Nightblood. The Four Commands “Change” seems sufficient to create by itself if given something to act on. I think Change is the means of creation. Everything new derives from something else, just as Adonalsium changed raw Investiture into the cosmere. Commands like “Join” or “Persist/Endure” or “Destroy” to me are just forms of Change or resistance to it. Change acts on some substance or “Structure.” I suggest a second Command might relate to what Adonalsium Changed raw Investiture into – the cosmere’s Investiture/matter/energy matrix made manifest in the Physical Realm. This includes the three Realmic aspects of everything from subatomic particles to planets, stars, and space itself. There’s no necessary reason the cosmere should look like our universe. I speculate it does because Adonalsium “Structures” the cosmere that way. A third Command might relate to the cosmere’s operating “Rules.” Rules limit Change’s scope. Examples include Realmic interactions, cosmere thermodynamics, and other cosmere physics principles. Perception’s cosmere role may also fall under the Rules rubric. I agree with Asmodeus the fourth Command may relate to the grant of “Life/Sentience.” Brandon says one of the Dawnshards is different from the rest. That means the person who holds the Command (the Dawnshard) is different from the other persons who hold Commands. I believe the Life/Sentience Dawnshard is the one who’s different. IMO, granting life is the most godlike of all the Commands. (I think of Michelangelo’s depiction of the divine hand extending towards Adam.) The Life/Sentience Command may require an Ascended being to hold it. Do Intents Derive from Commands? The Akinah mural hints Shard Intents may derive from the four Commands. I speculate that’s true. Known Shard Intents IMO each seem to represent a different aspect of a Command. I show above that Honor, Cultivation, Odium, and Ruin IMO are different aspects of Change – different ways to make Change. I think Preservation is an aspect of Structure. Stasis seems like an important element of Realmic Structure. Dominion to me expresses Rules. Sel’s magic users access magic through geographic-based forms. I attribute that to Dominion. It’s as if that Shard says, “Gain dominion over your homeland before you can use its magic.” Brandon likens AonDor’s topography-derived forms to a programming language. The greater the Elantrian’s knowledge of local topography, the more precise their use of AonDor. Autonomy and Endowment both grant Life/Sentience, to Avatars and Awakened objects. That leaves Devotion and Ambition among known Shards. Their magic is unclear to me. I believe Devotion involves the free use of Investiture (unconditional Love?) that Dominion’s Rules control the flow of. Maybe Devotion is an aspect of Structure? Ambition’s magic is part of why Threnody’s so spooky, which is all I know about that Shard. The Shattering Nikli says the future Vessels used the Commands to Shatter Adonalsium. Adonalsium pre-Shattering WAS the cosmere, it’s mind, body, and spirit. The cosmere’s body and spirit (in Changed form) persist post-Shattering. Adonalsium himself – the cosmere’s mind – is dead. I speculate the future Vessels Commanded Change to undo Adonalsium’s Sentience, thus killing him but leaving the cosmere intact. Change and the other Commands then divided Adonalsium into the Shard Intents. Maybe...?
  22. Hi, i'm new here but I have a crazy theory so I made an account so that I could share it. I have talked over this theory with some friends that are big fans of The Cosmere and we believe that it is possible. I have seen the theory that Hoid will become the new Adonalsium a couple times, but I believe that he already is/was. The theory in its simplest form is that Hoid is/was Adonalsium. First off, we know that Hoid was present at the shattering of Adonalsium, but nothing I have seen states in what form or fashion. We also know that all the shards have vessels, those that hold them. It stands to reason that Adonalsium also had a vessel that held all his power. It would also explain why Hoid is world-hopping around collecting magic systems, he's trying to put himself back together. I know that supposedly Adonalsium was killed when he shattered, but what if Adonalsium is the name of the power and not the name of the vessel. The death of Adonalsium could be referring to the death of the power when it shattered, but not the death of the vessel that held it. In conclusion, Hoid is what was leftover at the shattering of Adonalsium; he is now searching out the shards and learning all he can about them in the hopes of stitching himself back together. What do you think of my theory? I don't know the most about The Cosmere so there could be things that i'm not aware of that disprove my theory. If any of you have any evidence for or against this i would love to see it. Thanks for reading my theory, ~TheVillageIdiot
  23. So I was curious about the devotion aspect of Adonalsium and I couldn't find any WoB, page in the Coppermind or post in the forums that talks about it (I might have missed it and if so I'm sorry for bringing back a subject you may have tackled before) so I just wanted to bring this idea and see what you all think of it. From this WoB we can assume that the shards are fragments of Adonalsium's personality and, following this assumption, much like he kept a balance between preservation and ruin and had a desire to cultivate and the growth of things, he also had a sense of devotion directed towards to something or maybe someone. I don't think Adonalsium was devoted to a higher entity since this is one of the questions Brandon wants to leave open and having the most powerful entity in the universe worshipping something it thinks is even bigger would pretty much confirm it, so I think this devotion had to be directed towards something like a plan it had (much like how some people are devoted to the Diagram). My best guess for what this plan could be is the purpose of giving sentience to the Cosmere, as theorized and somewhat confirmed in this WoB. It could also be related to the creation of the Rosharan System and how Adonalsium had an specific purpose for its creation, or it could be something entirely different. This also raises some questions, like: Did Devotion's vessel know what was Adonalsium's devotion directed towards after she ascended? If so, is this part of the reason Odium decided to attack her and Dominion? This could also be part of the reason why Odium decided to splinter and trap most of their power in the Cognitive Realm, so nobody could ascend and get knowledge of Adonalsium's intentions. Well this is pretty much what I wanted to talk about, what are your thoughts in all this?
  24. Though I've lurked often on this forum, I have been less than thorough so if the theory below has already been posted… please give me a link (if you'd be so kind) as I'd love to read the discussion! And if this would be better posted elsewhere, please let this newbie know how Also yes, starting off my forum theorizing with a Hoid theory? Clichéd, but I never claimed to be cool. Like many, I often think about Hoid. What does he want? What are his motives? What is his favourite food? All vital cosmere questions. We know Hoid is gathering different kinds of investiture in the cosmere. At first I thought that maybe he wants to achieve a certain level of power to achieve a specific aim. But this has problems: I don't see Hoid using the investiture-equivalent of using an atomic bomb… nor do I know whether he'd have access to all the invested arts he collects if he's off-planet from these shards. So my mind travelled to the beginning, prior to the Shattering. We know Hoid was alive in Yolen pre-shattering and we know he has certain magical powers such as lightweaving in Yolen or his agelessness. If he had this magic prior to the shattering, then it's possible that the magical signature (is this a correct term?) of his power is of Adonalsium. That's to say, the investiture within his spirit web is pure undiluted Adonalsium. So then the shattering happened, and the power got divided. We know that Hoid has certain restrictions/conditions - such as not being able to hurt others, or that he always appears where he's needed (or so he thinks). We don't know how these restrictions came to be, but a reasonable guess would be that they are conditions set by an oath he took. I do believe he mentions an oath of a sort to Shallan. Why would an oath restrict him so if he isn't a shard? This I don't know, but maybe it has to do with his original Adonalsium magic-system. If we consider the idea that the shards, as pieces of Adonalsium, have their rules and magic based on that template then the fact they're bound by oaths could also extrapolate to the original magic users. If Hoid, by the time of the shattering, was already relatively old (a couple of centuries maybe?) then it's possible he was some kind of priest/advanced mage of Adonalsium and therefore had made his oaths as a way to advance in the magical ladder. These oaths cannot be broken. This could also explain why Honour uses oaths: it's an adaptation of the ancient system… and since he really likes oaths then it suited him just fine instead of coming up with something new. This could also explain Honour not being able to foresee the Heralds breaking the oaths: maybe the oaths made to Adonalsium were more binding and impossible to break than those made to Honour. So, what if Hoid isn't happy with these restrictions/conditions of existence? Then he would try to change them. But if the oath took place pre-shattering, then the investiture binding it would be of Adonalsium within his spirit-web. While his innate investiture might be of Adonalsium, he might not have enough juice to make the changes. Therefore, to change his spirit web, he would need to access all the 16 shards magic in order to make the necessary changes. To me, this explains why he's gathering investiture and possibly why he's so concerned about Odium. Maybe it's harder to gather or use the investiture of a splintered shard. The more shards Odium destroys the more difficult it's for Hoid. In fact, I think that given his line to Dalinar about him being ok with seeing Roshar burn to achieve his goals this makes sense. He's selfish in terms of what he hopes to achieve rather than being a good person who's concerned about the well-being of the Cosmere. Now why does he want to change his spirit web? Maybe if not to release him from his oath, there could be any other number of reasons. Maybe, he just wants to die… or maybe he wants to save/bring back someone (as hinted by epigraphs) but to do so he'd have to break his oaths so he's trying to get rid of them. I don't know what his ultimate goal is, but this theory seems to be a plausible way to achieve them. What do you think?