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  1. SO this will contain discussions on themes within the SA spoilers galore. Do we KNOW that this diagram has to deal with Voidbinding? http://coppermind.net/wiki/File:TWoK_Rear_Endsheet.jpg While rereading the WoK i had a crazy idea that this might actually tie into the Old Magic and the powers that the Nightwatcher uses. I have a couple of thoughts as to why this may be the case. Thought #1: The Woman in the picture that we don't know anything able is the Nightwatcher (I subscribe to the Nightwatcher=Cultivation theory). Thought #2: The Way of Kings has very little discussion about Voidbinding but a lot about the Old Magic. So if anyone has a WoB of other evidence to the true nature of the picture please share.
  2. Just a question, I can barely recall whether this has been discussed before. Anyway, does anyone have a sense about the identity of the woman at the sides of Voidbinding Chart? I'm just Sticking curious about that OuO What is worth noticing is that the safehand is "wrapped", at least not revealed.
  3. At the February 25 Austin signing for Calamity, a questioner asked Brandon, “How many magic systems are in The Stormlight Archives, and how many of them [have been seen?]” Brandon’s answer: I would say the only major one you haven’t seen is Voidbinding, it depends on how you count them. I count fabrials as one, Surgebinding as one, and Voidbinding as one. And then the Old Magic is kind of its own weird thing. This is Brandon’s most definitive statement (that I’ve seen) regarding Roshar’s magic systems. Let’s look more closely at what the three systems have in common and why the “weird” Old Magic doesn’t fit with the other three. I’ll then address the peculiar features of each system. Common Features Each of these magics (other than the older non-spren fabrials) rely on spren for their efficacy, including the Old Magic. The three “systems” all use the same “powers of creation” in some fashion. They differ from one another only in how the system gives access to and expresses the powers. The Old Magic in contrast seems to use only a few of the powers of creation, if any, which differentiates it from the “systems.” Brandon has said the powers of creation are just “tools” (emphasis added): [T]he powers granted by all of the metals—even the two divine ones—are not themselves of either [Ruin or Preservation]. They are simply tools. And so, it's possible that one COULD have found a way to reproduce an ability like atium's while using Preservation's power, but it wouldn't be as natural or as easy as using Preservation to fuel Allomancy. The means of getting powers—Ruin stealing, Preservation gifting—are related to the Shards, but not the powers themselves. I interpret this statement to mean that magic systems wherever located differ only in “the means of getting powers” and how the powers express themselves. How do each of Roshar’s magic systems differ? Surgebinding We know that the essence of Surgebinding is the Nahel bond. That is the “means” by which Surgebinders “get” the ability to use the powers of creation, which on Roshar are called “Surges.” Q: The ten Surges on Roshar, I think you said are basically a different set of laws of physics. A: Yeah. Q: Are those laws of physics consistent throughout the Cosmere? A: Um, y-y-yes, to an extent. You would consider, like - it's kind of weird because I based them on the idea of the fundamental forces, but this is kind of like a human construction. Like you could say that physics is pure and natural, but we're still putting things in boxes. And the scientists on Roshar would for instance consider being able to travel between the Cognitive and Physical Realms as a force, the thing that pulls people back and forth between that, as a fundamental force. I don't know if it would fit our definition of a fundamental force. That statement is also from the 2/25 Signing. IMO the reason the Nahel bond gives a Surgebinder access to the Surges is because the bonded spren is cognitive investiture. The bonded spren uses its mind to direct the Surges it controls as the Surgebinder requests. The Surgebinder thinks what he/she wants to do and the spren does it. Forum consensus (but not canon) is that Honor and Cultivation combined their investiture to create the Surgebinding system. This is an example of what Moogle calls “intent-meshing,” but what I call “mandate-meshing” since I think “mandate” is the textually proper word for what we’ve been calling “intent.” (See the HoA Chapter 79 Epigraph.) Honor’s mandate is “to bind,” as Syl tells us. Honor’s investiture creates the Nahel bond. But the bonded spren are a mix of Honor’s and Cultivation’s investiture. The two exceptions IMO are Bondsmiths’ spren (the Stormfather, Honor’s Cognitive Shadow comprised of pure Honor investiture); and Truthwatchers’ spren (pure Cultivation investiture, though connected to their KR’s SpiritWeb by Honor’s Nahel bond). I base my conjecture on the fact that these are the only two Orders “inside” the KR Order Chart (what I call the “Round Table”) that appears on the front endsheet of WoK. Argent has asked the question, “out of the potentially hundreds, if not thousands of spren types, why do the Radiants bind with only ten?” I believe the answer is that the ten spren types who became Radiantspren imitated the Honorblades. Each Honorblade is capable of two Surges. Only spren capable of exercising the same two Surges as each Honorblade - IMO the right mix of Honor's and Cultivation's investiture - would bond with KR. Other spren would have a different mix or be something else entirely. Those spren couldn't exercise the same Surges as the Honorblades. They cannot be Radiantspren. Fabrials There are two broad types of fabrials – the modern fabrials mentioned in the WoK and WoR Ars Arcana and ancient fabrials that seem not to rely on spren at all. We’ve seen two examples of ancient fabrials – ones that enable Soulcasting and Regrowth (the Transformation and Progression Surges). We don’t know whether the fabrial “magic system” includes both modern and ancient fabrials or one or the other. Brandon has said that “Fabrials can replicate all of the Surgebinding abilities.” Arguably the Honorblades themselves are non-spren fabrials that grant the ten Surges. The Oathgates are another ancient fabrial, but they require a “living” Shardblade – a spren; these may be more akin to modern fabrials, but maybe not. All fabrials of whatever kind require Stormlight to operate. The WoR Ars Arcanum author, believed to be Khriss, is “more and more convinced that [modern fabrial creation] requires forced enslavement of transformative cognitive entities, known as ‘spren’ to the local communities.” Note that Khriss confirms that spren are comprised of cognitive investiture. Modern fabrials lock the spren into specific types of gems. The color, cut and size of the gems appear responsible for attracting the spren, its imprisonment, the amount and “wavelength” of Stormlight the spren gain access to, and/or the type of magical output the fabrial creates. Khriss categorizes fabrials into five “groupings”: Altering (Augmenters and Diminishers), Pairing (Conjoiners and Reversers), and Warning. Fabrials “appear to be the work of dedicated scientists, as opposed to the more mystical Surgebindings once performed by the Knights Radiant.” While Khriss seems to write the Ars Arcanum contemporaneously with WoR events – she knows of the Jah Keved half-Shards, a recent development – she seems ignorant of the KR’s re-emergence. IMO the two distinguishing features of modern fabrials are the use of gemstones to capture spren and reliance on merely sentient spren. Surgebinding uses the more heavily invested sapient Radiantspren for its magic. “Altering fabrials,” for example, “seem to work best with forces, emotions or sensations” like heat, pain or wind. We know that sentient spren have access to the Surges too: windspren, for example, can use Adhesion to trip people. I also believe that whatever spren is imprisoned in spanreeds gives the users access to the Transportation Surge: the writing is “transported” over distance. Voidbinding There’s been some excellent speculation about Voidbringer magic, most notably on this thread begun by Argent. Brandon’s 2/25/16 statement clarifies, however, that listener Stormform cannot be “voidbinding,” since we HAVE seen that magic. Lightflame in that thread suggests that listener Stormform is Voidbringing, since that form enables the listeners to summon the Everstorm, the phenomenon that will “bring the Void.” Lightflame distinguishes Stormform from the “Voidish Forms” that Argent lists as the believed counterparts of the KR Orders: Nightform, Decayform and Smokeform. As Lightflame notes, these forms are mentioned in the listeners' Song of Secrets. Stormform by contrast is mentioned in the listeners Song of Winds. Stormspren’s ability to cause lightning and violent winds appears innate, like windspren’s Adhesion ability. Neither seems to require Stormlight. There's no need to replicate the discussion on Argent’s thread, linked above. Instead, if you’re interested I suggest you read the entire thread, since the posters there have helpful insights. It’s clear (to me) that Voidbinding resembles Endowment’s reincarnation of the Returned more than any other magic system we’ve seen. Voidbinding in all its known forms relies on the powers granted to/by the Unmade, the listener “gods.” These former listeners are remade by Odium’s investiture. Nightform: “as the gods did leave, the nightform whispered…” (WoR Chapter 23 Epigraph). Decayform: “a form of gods to avoid, it seems…” (WoR Chapter 24 Epigraph). Smokeform: “Crafted of gods, this form we fear. / By Unmade touch its curse to bear…” (WoR Chapter 31 Epigraph). Oh well, all my theories about “Voidbinding” being a combination of Honor’s and Odium’s investiture – Honor “binding the Void” – are now out the window… The Old Magic But I still have hope for this one. Also at the 2/25/16 Event, Brandon and a questioner had the following exchange: Questioner: I kind of envision the Old Magic working a little bit like Hemalurgy, where some[one] takes a part of the Physical DNA of the person and transmutes it onto the Cognitive DNA because everything seems to be a Cognitive shift for the person. Am I thinking along the right lines? Brandon: You are thinking along very-- Yes you are thinking along the right lines. I won’t tell you exactly but you are thinking along the right lines. I hesitate to infer anything from such a squishy answer. (And PLEASE future questioners, do not invite such an answer by building it into your question, as this person did. It probably wouldn’t have made a difference, but it’s best not to provide Brandon with an “out” in advance.) I’ll assume that the “right lines” the questioner was “thinking along” refers to a quasi-hemalurgical connection between two entities affecting one’s Cognitive capacity. Brandon’s answer conveniently parallels my theory that the Nightwatcher – purveyor of the Old Magic – is a combination spren consisting of the Cognitive investiture of each of Cultivation and Odium bound to one another by Honor: Cultivation boons and Odium Cognitive curses. As Brandon says in the opening quote of this post, the Old Magic is “weird.” You can read my theory and its many detractors, so I won’t repeat it here. In summary, the Nightwatcher is the Cognitive element of Odium’s imprisonment in Greater Roshar. Conclusion That’s all, Folks! Enjoy the rest of your weekend!
  4. After posting about the turning of the tide and its effect upon spren, I had another thought. The climactic moment instead will be the Stormfather finally manifesting in the Physical Realm. A representative of each Order will hold one of the united “Shardblades.” Dalinar as Bondsmith will bind the ten Surges into one.and call down the Almighty’s power. That power will re-bind Odium’s investiture (“Voidbinding”) into Greater Roshar. “Voidbringers” will be released into their pre-Odium-infected state. Investiture balance will be restored. The "wall of black and white and red" in the WoK Chapter 9 Epigraph? Humans and Eshonai's non-infected group of listeners will form a wall against Voidbringers of all kinds. They will provide space for the Bondsmith to perform his magic. Such an event incarnates Dalinar’s faith. That seems important for someone whose book is named Oathbringer. Thoughts?
  5. http://coppermind.net/wiki/Category:Symbolslook at the link, most of what I have to say only makes sense if you look at the link, most of my info is visual, so just look at the link then read the rest of this post According to this link, there is a voidish equivalent to the orders. We also know that the voidbringers/listeners were able to switch between forms. So the only conclusion i can think of is that voidbinding is a similar, watered down version of surgebinding. Sorry for the short theory.
  6. Adolin. Here’s the argument: Voidbinding is literally “binding the Void.” It is the magic Honor devised to ensnare Odium in Greater Roshar. As a magic, it combines the elements of both Honor and Odium. Preview of yet another unpublished post: Roshar’s three magics are Surgebinding (Honor and Cultivation); the “Old Magic” (Cultivation and Odium); and Voidbinding. Honor used Voidbinding to create the Old Magic – binding together the Minds of Cultivation and Odium (Cognitive boons and curses) – and Stormlight (binding together the gaseous Physical investiture of all three, the only Shard “Power” actually on Roshar, with one and maybe two exceptions...) This is all I want to get into for now… The Honorblades are Voidbinding fabrials. That’s why they were created. The True Desolation has come. Nale seeks to recover the Honorblades from the Stone Shamans and reunite the Honorblades with their Heralds. One “drooling” Herald is unable to answer the call. Coincidentally, that Herald’s Honorblade happens to be in Urithiru at the moment. Also coincidentally, young Adolin is about to be exiled for murder. Dalinar will save Adolin from execution by relinquishing “Taln’s” Shardblade and requiring Adolin to turn over his own. These will go to men chosen by Ialai as payment for her agreement to reduce the death sentence to exile. (I am SOOOOOO sorry Maxal and the other Edgedancer adherents. You make such a good case. But narratively, I think this one works better. Maybe the recipient of Adolin’s Shardblade will become an Edgedancer because of Adolin’s prior attentions.) She will see her rise to power (controlling three Shardblades now, once Oathbringer is found) well worth her husband's death. She will maintain power by rotating Shardblades among different suitors, a more wicked version of Penelope awaiting Odysseus. Dalinar will search his honor and conclude that he can give Adolin the Blade Kaladin gave him, not realizing that it's an Honorblade. Like Voidbinding itself, Adolin balances within him two competing “mandates” (intents): honor and hatred. On the one hand, Adolin is a decent, honorable man. He takes genuine delight in the company of any person no matter how humble (the bridge waterboys). He will also stand up to protect an unknown prostitute against aggression. He sounds a lot like Jezrien to me in both his humility and his humanity, even when his young self still wrestles with pride. He’s portrayed throughout the two books as a “lead and protect” kind of guy. But he also became “irrevocably enraged” (italics in original) when he “snapped” the moment before killing Sadeas. That’s Odium’s domain, and Adolin now lives there “irrevocably.” As I pointed out in this post, “irrevocable rage” emanates from “immortal hatred.” So that’s the argument. And before you object, first answer me why Adolin is the only character with so much black and blond hair? Metaphor? (Please don’t bring up that Jezrien was blond. It’s JUST a metaphor… until the Honorblade’s identity spren chooses to replace the “drooling Jezrien” with Adolin, who then becomes fully blond...) Thoughts?
  7. It seems strange to me that the Heralds would accept immortality in exchange for eternal torture. I don’t care how “honorable” the Heralds are (and many of them have as much or more Cultivation in them as Honor). No earthly religious figures endured so much over their lifetimes for their beliefs, let alone through eternity. It's just so improbable, even in a work of fantasy fiction. So I sought an alternative explanation consistent with Roshar’s magical and planetary peculiarities. This is what I’ve come up with. 1. The Heralds Are Identity Spren Whoever the original Heralds were, they gave their memories and physical, mental and emotional characteristics (their “Identity”) to Honor to help maintain Odium‘s imprisonment in the Rosharian system. Honor created an “Identity spren” for each Herald and implanted that spren in each Honorblade. When the time comes for a Desolation, each Honorblade seeks a human whose physical characteristics and temperament match their Herald’s “Divine Attributes.” The Honorblade then bonds that person to itself. In other words, the Identity spren/investiture attaches itself to that person’s spirit web at precisely the places necessary to make that person into their Herald. As Syl has noted, the Blade itself is not a spren, but the spren within the Blade chooses a human to bond with. Through this investiture – more than the amount of investiture constituting a RadiantSpren – each bonded Herald acquires his or her non-surgebinding abilities that Brandon has alluded to (Taln’s quickness and hand speed, for example), as well as that Herald’s physical appearance, personality and memories. 2. The Oathpact The Oathpact was the agreement of the Heralds to fight for Honor in exchange for immortality. I believe they did not know how they were made immortal or that it would result in their perceived “torture.” Kalak’s interaction with Jezrien in the WoK Prelude (calling him the “immortal king”) supports this interpretation. Moreover, WEZ313 in an April 2015 post referenced a WoB that purportedly said "the Heralds blamed Honor for what happened to them." 3. The Honorblades Are Voidbinding Fabrials Honor designed the Honorblades to consume investiture, bind the investiture together as Stormlight (“Voidbinding”), and recycle the Stormlight. The Heralds are Voidbinders. Stormlight consists of physical investiture in gaseous form from each of Honor, Cultivation and Odium. It is the balance of the investitures that enables Honor to "bind the Void," and imbalances that cause Desolations. (Many storylines grow from this conclusion, and I’m still working through all the implications. Rather than to go into more about this now, may I say RAFO? 4 . Where the Heralds Go When They Don’t Die The Heralds “go back” following Desolations even when they don’t die because the Honorblades consume and return each Herald’s Identity spren to the corresponding Honorblade. 5. The Heralds’ “Torture” A Herald’s “torture” between Desolations is the Identity spren’s exposure to Odium’s investiture in the re-forging of Stormlight through the Voidbinding process. The Identity spren may or may not participate in this process. The intensity of the intra-Honorblade battle between Honor’s binding and Odium’s divisive investiture is what the Heralds perceive as the daily rendering and regrowth of their “flesh.” (Recall that Stormlight includes Cultivation’s Progression surge, which heals the Heralds from that damage.) 6. Who Is Taln? Taln IS Taln. But the spren that constitutes his identity had been locked inside that Honorblade waaaay longer than it had ever been before. Like other spren, it lost much of its memory and other cognitive characteristics when it transitioned into the Physical Realm. It will take Taln some time to recover himself. (Who now has his Honorblade is another story…) 7. The Stone Shamans Keep the Honorblades in the Mountains East of Shinovar Of the many singular things about Shinovar, most striking is the absence of spren. One reason is that the Stormlight-bearing Highstorms have dissipated by the time they reach the mountains east of Shinovar, and those mountains scrape off however much of the Highstorms remain. I propose an additional reason: the investiture-consuming Honorblades are kept in those mountains. They create a barrier to ensure that no investiture of any kind slips through into Shinovar. (I address why that is in another part of my Theory.) There's a lot more to say, but that's it for now.
  8. As the topic says, I've been pondering on this subject lately, especially considering that Peter may have hinted (keyword: may) that the Unmade are Voidbinders. But I'm getting ahead of myself, here. Let's start with what we do know about Voidbinding, from the Ars Arcanum, and then I'll bust out the random fancy: It's not much to go on, but my ruminations began with the bolded key phrases. Consider the following: Voidbinding is, by implication, esoteric. The definition of the word esoteric alone suggests that there's a very specific factor to allow for the usage of the power (and/or is exclusive to possibly the Unmade). There are multiple levels of Voidbinding. Speculation took me along the idea that each requires some state to be true in order to reach the next one. Sound familiar? I think of the Heightenings as sourced from Endowment's manifestation of Investiture, specifically that a certain number of Breaths are required to reach a certain level of Heightening. I think there's a similar component here, but the requirement for reaching the various levels of Voidbinding are different. Key in what we know about the Unmade, specifically the following from the Diagram: Let's assume for now that the Diagram is spot on with respect to the Unmade and how they're akin to spren. This would therefore imply that they lack a substantial Physical component to their being, that they are mostly Cognitive. If they really are Voidbinders, why would this be a common thread, unless Voidbinding requires a willing sacrifice of oneself in order for the Shard's power to take root? It's almost a corroborated idea, if Rlain's comments on the listener gods' (presumably the Unmade) are indeed factual, that those gods literally gave up aspects of themselves in order to become dangerous, powerful entities. They "unmade" themselves in exchange for Voidbinding powers. Thus, we have some mindless agents of destruction, because they largely gave up sentience in the (I assume) hope to destroy the opposition with the power gained in exchange for that loss of cognition. I then wondered the following: Suppose there are Unmade who simply are just 'mindless' forms of destruction. What if those, then, are therefore the most powerful, because they have "given of themselves to destroy" to such a higher extent, that they have virtually little substance to them, that they're almost literally are just forces of destruction? In other words, they sacrificed almost all of their Physical and/or Cognitive and/or Spiritual components in exchange for attaining higher levels of this power, which are also the most powerful and wide-reaching. Alternatively, it could simply be the case that by sacrificing a specific attribute in one's self (physical form, sentient thought, etc.) gains one access to a specific 'level' of Voidbinding. The chart for it resembling the Surgebinder chart is, however, troubling, and doesn't support the idea of a "prerequisite" system as with Heightenings. Requiring the sacrifice of a specific aspect -- dare I say, Essence? -- on the other hand... Thoughts?
  9. I have developed a new theory, one accounting for the purple chart in Way of Kings that is so similar to the Radiant chart. I call it: The Knights Absorbent The Voidbinding equivalent of the Knights Radiant Premise The Way of Kings comes with two similar chart illustrations included within. One is a chart detailing the ten Surges, and the glyphs for the ten orders of Knights Radiant, who are Surgebinders. It is highly likely the purple chart corresponds to the Voidbinders. On the chart (seen below), we have ten corresponding icons to the Surges, and ten corresponding Glyphs for the Orders. Thus, there must be equivalents to the Surges and the Knights Radiant - enter the Knights Absorbent. Logic The term given to the users of Surges are called Surgebinders. Why are they called Surges? When a Surgebinder activates their abilities, they begin by concentrating Stormlight and gathering power. This high concentration of power leaks from them, and they can release it through Surgebinding. The Surge in Surgebinding is this concentration of power release - the power is Surging. We know that the opposing force is called Voidbinding. It stands to reason then, that the opposite of the ten Surges would be the ten Voids. Indeed, we can see that the glyphs for the Voids are oppositely symmetrical as compared to the Surges. If Surges are an increased concentration, it makes sense that Voids are the opposite - a lack, an area of decreased concentration. We can logically see then that Voidbinding creates a low density area where Surgebinding created a high density area. The Knights Radiant earned their name by their Radiance. Nothing is more sensible. They Radiate light and power, because of how a concentration works - it wants to diffuse into areas of lower concentration (e.g. everything else in this case) Voidbinding then, would have the opposite effect. Nearby concentrations of power would seem to be drawn into the Voidbinder, it would seem that instead of Radiating, they Absorb. The ten Glyphs of the Knights Radiant demand an equal and opposing order of Knights from the Voidbinders ten glyphs. If the Knights Radiant are termed such because they radiate, then we must call this opposing order the Knights Absorbent. But without the Heralds to model themselves after, any spren with which they bonded would have no shape on which to base their Shardblade, no form on which to base their Shardplate. No, they could not have made Shardplate or Blade at all - they must look to the weaponry which defines their order. The Knights Absorbent and then spren then, must be equipped with a deadly weapon, well known to many, which comes from an item with an absorbency like no other: The cardboard tube sword taken from a roll of paper towels. This weapon has a long history, of being used both in mighty wars and conflicts, and by some of the most renowned duelists in history. It is truly a weapon with an unimpeachable past, with a Bounty of techniques passed down from father to son through the ages. But what of Shardplate? The Knights Absorbent must have armor as well, but not hard armor to stop a blow - no, they must have armor that absorbs all impacts, armor that can take any punishment given to them, armor which has been associated with cardboard tube swords for eons. Yes, it must be pillow armor. There is no other option, and the evidence is clear. Below, we display an artist's rendition of the fearsome Knights Absorbent, which we will likely not see for several books. Beware of spoilers! And beware of nightmares, for their depiction is truly the stuff of terror. Radiants be warned, your doom is at hand! Sources: All Evidence comes directly from the purest of Logic and the Gospel of Brandon, may the Everstorm Reign forever.
  10. Odium, Desolations, Recreance and Gavilar. Why is being a surgebinder so dangerous? Why are they the force that ‘could’ return Desolations to this world? (To quote Nale) I've wondered this, I've turned it over, and one answer keeps coming back. I call, and it comes, again. I’ll elaborate on this in the body ahead, but I sincerely hope you’ll forgive my love of long speech, I hazard a guess that others have guessed as well. The Nature of Surgebinding, Stormlight is raw surges, raw energy, it is colourless but through its use the Radiants were able colour it, and make use of surges selective to their bonded spren, like shooting light through a filter, and taking only a selection of the spectrum. It’s an analogy I like, although I’m not sure if it’s of my own device. A Windrunner Invests Stormlight, and he can bond or lash. Furthermore, if trapped in a gem, a fabrial may harness this stormlight to an effect determined by the gem. In this case, the gem is the filter. So, you can change the vessel, that is, the filter (different surgebinder, different gem) but what if that isn’t the only thing you could change? What if a Surgebinder could Invest an entirely different kind of Light? Voidlight, Voidbinding, and Gavilar’s Design We’ve seen a different Light, perhaps even, a different form of Investiture. There are hints that this exists, termed Voidbinding, but I’m doubtful this is of the exact same vein. What I speak of is Odium’s sphere. The black sphere Gavilar held. Strongly implied to be of Odium. Gavilar believed he could return the Parsheni gods, which we now know to be Voidspren, and this black sphere seems by far the most likely means to that end. Only… there’s a problem with this; a Parsheni cannot Invest. They can bond a spren, sure, and surely it is possible that Gavilar’s sphere contained a voidspren for the Parsheni to bond, but this explanation seems…mundane, and at the very least it does not match the description of the Stormspren we see in Word’s of Radiance. I have another theory, but I’ll backtrack a moment. Why was Gavilar so interested in the Knights Radiant? I've asked myself this of a time, and the answer that returns is simple, “Gavilar wanted a Radiant, because Radiants can surgebind” We've seen Amaram, who was a confidant of Gavilar, greatly desires the return of the Heralds, and I believe Gavilar is referenced as a pious man, and my bet is that Gavilar sought to begin a Desolation so that the Heralds would return. Now, he may have been manipulated by Odium, as Shallan’s father was. Certainly Navani saying that he had a darker side is some points in that direction, although hardly conclusive. He could have just been a pious man who sought the return of the Heralds through some misguided Faith. But, I digress. As I said, long speech. Now, I think that Gavilar’s design required a Radiant. A Radiant to Invest with the essence of Odium, this then, is what begets a desolation. Further Speculation on Desolations So then, we’re on the same plateau. I’m sure those of you who read this, insightful gems you are, have already guessed the implications of this. A Desolation is caused when a surgebinder Invests Odium. A Desolation is caused when a Herald breaks under torture. But breaks to do what? Well…you’ve probably deduced my meaning. We’ve seen glimpses of what Damnation is like, hooks through flesh, fire melting skim, fat and bone. Searing agony, doubly so for a surgebinder, knowing it could all stop if only they drew a little Odium into them. We’ve seen how stormlight heals and fortifies the body, I can imagine for the Heralds, surgebinders, being trapped in Damnation without access to Stormlight, but with Odium’s essence all around them. I can’t think of a better way to break them. This also explains why the Heralds bring a Desolation, they can tap Voidlight and return to Roshar, but in doing so they bring Voidspren which can then infect and/or corrupt. Only, this time, the Heralds stayed. They stayed because they were too broken to go back, and because they knew if they stayed, the Pact would hold, as long as Taln remained. Taln, who is famous for impossible last stands, Taln who, I feel, would be the last to break. I his disregard for his own life implies a lack of fear of Damnation and suggests that he wasn’t broken. Not yet, and…perhaps…not now. If Taln in Words of Radiance is not Taln truly. Shin Stone Shamanism and Recreance This, then, would explain the reason why the Shin view the Stormlight as profane. A lot of Stone Shamanism, or at least in Szeth’s experience and being Truthless, seems to relate to the return of Desolations. Surely, then, anyone who could Invest Stormlight is putting the world in peril of a Desolation. It would make sense then, that this fear of surgebinders take root, assuming the superstition to be based in some fact. If, perchance, the Radiants knew this to be true, or found it out, it would explain Recreance as well. It takes one surgebinder to bring another Desolation, to sweep the slate clean. It might well make sense. As long as the Radiants remain, the possibility of massive failure awaits, a second Desolation. Without a surgebinder, the possibility is almost nothing. Moreover, the death of the spren makes them exceedingly unlikely to trust humans again, lowering the likelihood of future bonds even more so, and it also makes sense why the last Radiant Dalinar speaks to is so morose about the inevitability of the Last Desolation. Moreover, we know there is some war when the Radiants desert their oaths. Perhaps they feared the ramifications of a losing side will to go to extreme, Odium-investing, measures. As I said, it only takes one. As a final aside, I think it is Odium's cunning that is the reason we haven't seen an Everstorm before. He had to break or corrupt the Heralds, he had to let the rot set in with people (or selectively reveal information to catalyse this) and at the end he unleashes his most devastating device. Exactly when people have no Herald, no Knights Radiant, barely a sense of unity and Parshmen in every city. That said, I'm not sure if the Everstorm is the Final Desolation, or merely an aspect of it. I could certainly imagine that this could well be Opium trying to sweep the field and pull out all the stops. The Acknowledgements of Alternates: (A Few) It then should come as no surprise that there are alternate hypothesis that some may dare to say are more credible. Certainly, Nale could merely mean what we saw in Words of Radiance. The Parsheni were, in part, pushed to become Stormform based on the appearance of Kaladin at the Battle of the Tower. The return of Surgebinders begat the return of Voidbringers. It is also possible that the Black Sphere is not the cause of a Desolation, but rather the essence of Odium that allows him to choose a champion, or something else to this extent. Midnight essence, even. I should note that the nature of damnation is also highly speculative, as is the possibility of a surgebinder Investing voidlight. Or even voidlight behaving as stormlight does. Perhaps they have radically different types of Investiture, or mayhap voidlight cannot be Invested. I do not know if Recreance ties in well with my theory or not, this is just where it has taken me, yet it feels meaningful, it feels right. I also think that it could be due to Bondsmiths getting some special insight into the death of Honour, or Odium in general just influencing some important people at the right time. Odium clearly does not need to be physically present to influence people, I surmise an Investment by Odium would be a lot like a Parsheni bonding a Stormspren, but it might not even be necessary. Thank you.
  11. OK, tell me if this sounds crazy. There are two kinds of spren, nature and emotion. or (natural forces and concepts) Forces of nature spren are of Cultivation? and emotion/concepts are of Honor? Each Herald get's their abilities from a bond to Honor and each represents an ideal. (a concept) Each ideal granted the Herald two Surges divided up between spiritual and cognitive surges. Four got access to two spiritual surges, Four got access to two cognitive surges, and two got access to one of each. Spren were attracted to each ideal and because each ideal was a bond to Honor the spren "fed" of that bond and achieved sentience by becoming Splinters. These spren, that now each represented an ideal, started to bond with humans giving them surgebinding abilities like the Heralds whose ideal/Order they represent. (Surprising the Almighty) This would suggest that the power of Surgebinding comes from Honor. So what about Cultivation? Well I think her magic system is Voidbinding. (Binding spren that represent natural forces) I don't think that the spren involved in Voidbinding are Splinters, but I suppose they could be, but for now I'm going to assume they're not. So while Surgebinding involves sentient spren who make the decision to bond to a human who represents their ideal. I think Voidbinding works by binding a non-sentient spren that represents a force of nature to them (like stormspren) giving them abilities. =============================== OR The ideals the Herald swore bound them to both Honor and Cultivation (and the Herald's surge abilities, depending upon the Herald, are either of Honor, Cultivation or a mix of both) giving the spren that were attracted to that ideal access to the power of both Shards, becoming Splinters that way. Which would mean that Voidbinding is something else entirely. =============================== This is just something that I started to think about while reading Brandon Q&A's and I thought I share it to see what you guys think. So tell me what you think, feel free to added to it or tear it apart.
  12. Okay, so we know that Roshar has three magic systems, right? Surgebinding, Voidbinding, and something to do with Spren and Fabrials. Surgebinding seems like a pretty physical power system. Whatever the magic system with Fabrials is, it uses Spren, which are cognitive aspects. And the Void is often used as a reference to the afterlife, which i think will make it a spiritual power. Will Brandon make 3 sets of powers, one for each physical, cognitive, spiritual aspect, but with similar outcomes? Or will the outcomes be completely different? I don't know, but I like the idea of each one working with only one aspect.
  13. From what I've seen, Surgebinding seems to be a pretty physical form of magic on Roshar. You know, healing people, making illusions, burning things, changing one thing onto another, and changing the gravity of things. All very physical aspects. We know that Voidbinding is the second form of magic on Roshar, and that it is strongly associated with predicting the future, and is considered evil, despite Shards like Cultivation being able to predict the future, which is why I think this future prediction thing is not an actual part of Voidbinding. I believe Voidbinding to be mainly Spiritual in nature, which would explain it's evil associations. Now, WoB is that the third form of magic on Roshar has to do with Fabrials. The translations of the Navani's Notebook pictures in WoK show that Fabrials are made by binding Spren to gemstones. Spren are Cognitive aspects of things in Roshar. From what I've seen in Navani's Notebook, this almost seems like an end-positive form of Hemalurgy, but instead of killing a person to steal their powers, you are capturing a spren to copy these powers. It also seems much more versatile, capable of not only very simple objects by use of a single Fabrial, but also capable of creating the emotion bracelet by combining ten fabrials. Oh, looky there. Ten. Ten Surges, Ten Voidbindings, Ten Sprenbindings. This is a very rough and incomplete theory, so feel free to comment and tear my theory apart, or to contribute and make this solid.
  14. Hi All. While reading the forums here an idea came to me. If this has been discussed before then my apologies. Anyway. What if the Parshendi forms that were mentioned in the Eshonai interlude, are actually related to Voidbinding? And what if the Voidbringers are actually type of Spren related/in-service to odium? Here's some of my thinking behind this: - We know from WoB that the Parshendi need to stay out in a Highstorm in order to change forms, and the Parshendi article on the Coppermind wiki says that this involves bonding with Spren. ( http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/3238-brandon-signing-110612/ ) - From what Szeth says in the prelude of tWoK, we can assume that the Voidbringers are able to use Stormlight. - In tWoK Jasnah says she believes that the Parshendi are the Voidbringers based on the research she has done. -However, In the Eshonai interlude there is this quote in reference to Gavilar's assassination "she and the others had ordered the murder of their king in a desperate gambit to stop the Parshendi gods from returning. Well, that hadn’t worked out." So here's my theory. The Voidbringers are in fact Spren allied/in-service to Odium. Voidbinding is gained by bonding with these Spren, similar to Surgebinding. This would explain how the Parshendi change forms, and why they need a Highstorm/Stormlight to do so. What Jasnah uncovered in her research may have been referencing a particular form the Parshendi are able to take. Stormform? Voidform? This could also explain why the Parshendi want to prevent the return of their gods, as an effort to prevent themselves becoming the Voidbringers and bringing about the next desolation. XXX---Mistborn Spoilers---XXX Sorry this post was so long/hard to follow. Thank you for reading. -Postmaster Lipwig Edit: Thanks for the catch hoser
  15. I've read recently that the orders in the KR table were stylized to represent swords (WoB), this lead others to theorize the orders on the Voidbinding Stained glass to represent animals. Well if that's the case and the Santhid was significant enough to be one of the Shallan sketches for WoR why wouldn't one of the orders be a stylized Santhid? Here's my guess. The rounded seeming shell at the top, the flowing bottom and an "eye in the center top seems to line up pretty good. If anyone thinks it could be anything else or maybe that any other Voidbinding orders represent any other unique Rosharian Fauna let's hear it. I haven't included an actual Santhid pic for obvious reason but also notice the super cool design in the Iris.
  16. Has anyone else noticed that on the map of Kharbranth in TWoK there are voidbinding symbols? The symbol makes me wonder if this is the map Shallan made of Kharbranth or a map from the Ghostbloods?
  17. That quote got me thinking that perhaps Szeth is under the impression that he is a Voidbringer. I know that would mean he was asking if he existed, but if you consider his weirdly inverted logic on other topics, it may become understandable. I got to thinking that if that was his belief, his punishment, Truthlessness, could be a literal description. His people don't believe in him and his "Voidbringing," so he is without truth. BUT his honor in refusing to kill himself or deviate from his orders prove that he is still here and a thing. Wheel of Time fans, think about how weird the Aiel beliefs were on things like this: men who could channel would think it their duty to go fight the dark one, so they would just run off. Cool. So. That got me wondering then about Voidbinding, and I considered something I hadn't before: Szeth can use Windrunner abilities, Order 1, and pretty much fits the bill for the exact inverse of the qualities. In other words, he is VOID of them. He is not a leader, in fact he follows like a mad man. He is not protective, in fact he stomps on others protection, and is basically an entirely offensive tool thus far. These may not be the things that landed him in this role, but they seem like good examples of him developing these inverse characteristics. Maybe we'll have 10 Voidbringer Orders that are all void of the described characteristics. If anyone has seen ideas like these discussed, I'd love to hear of them. I tried a search but it was hard to word and brought up like....every topic.
  18. So we were having a discussion about the cryptics in the "Symbol Heads" thread and I hit on an idea that I hadn't heard anyone toss out yet. Now don't scream and fuss about this idea to much. I know it is thin and the evidence is thin as well. But, I don't know of anything that particularly speaks against it. As a preface to this, I have heard people grumble about the fact that it appears that all the Main characters so far (Dalinar, Kaladin, Shallan, and Jasnah) are on the road to radianthood. I myself personally thought that this was kind of a bit damp. It seemed like it would be nice if one of these four went astray or was not on the path. This idea may appeal to those who share this sentiment. So, the prevailing thought about the cryptics is that they are the bonding spren responsible for Shallan's soulcasting ability. However, by all appearances, the cryptics have different symbols in place of heads. Now this could simply be individuality, but Brandon indicated that we may recognize these symbols, though they are not glyphs. What if these symbols indicated separate classifications or orders of cryptics? Now, clearly, Syl is not a cryptic and she is the right kind of spren to associate Kaladin with the Windrunner order of the KR. This could mean that the cryptics are not associated with the KR. What orders then would the cryptics be associated with? What if the cryptics were associated with voidbinding? Could the symbols be the ones we see in the back cover lining chart? This may explain Jasnah's concern at seeing the picture of the cryptic.
  19. This entire post is a HUGE speculation, so be warned. Edit 6/11: This chart was created to mimic the Kabbalah, and uses color, form, relationships and symbols to create meaning. The ideas below are all my interpretations of these relationships and symbols. The main structure of the diagram is a large eye with two pupils and 10 lines radiating out from the center. The smaller symbols form a ring around the iris. The beasts wings form the sclera of the eye. If you take away all the trimmings it becomes the symbol of Knight's Radiant. "Dalinar recognized the symbol, the particular pattern of the stylized double eye, eight spheres connected with two at the center. It had been the symbol of the Lost Radiants, back when they’d been called the Knights Radiant." (Ch 19). But what does that symbol mean? I believe these images are a graphical representation that Honor and Cultivation merged into one Shard with two Intellects. In effect, they are both peering out of the same eye, but with slightly different points of view. The Harmonic Table: KR symbol Double Eye Double Skull I think its quite important that the two Winged Greatshells are symmetric, and that there is a single larger head with mandibles created in the negative space between the two physical forms. The left beast represents Cultivation, the right beast represents Honor, and the central head depicts the spiritual union of the two Shards. There is also a Glyph located at the place where the two Dragonwasp heads connect. The heads and symbol viewed together resemble a crown with the central gem placed over the forehead. This Gem contains the glyph of Ishi. Now putting it all together: Ishi is associated in the Ars Arcanum with guidance and piety, and resides in the third eye focus of the spiritual union of Honor and Cultivation. The Skybreakers then are an Order of Radiants devoted to guiding us based on visions of the future. Ishi is the 10th Glyph, so 10 becomes a symbol of revelation. Each glyph and map shape is important, and you can make similar interpretations for each order of the Knights Radiant. We can even use this image to figure out the general location of the two Shardic pools, and predict their release into the physical realm through the Greatshells. This is also a way to organize Surges, and by association, Invested Spren. Think of the diagram as a coordinate axis grid. The x-axis is Investiture, the y-axis is Realm. The quadrants tell you the element type. Before we go any farther I suggest you look at how the color changes from top to bottom. Up is Physical, down is Cognitive. Left is Cultivation, right is Honor. Each Spren relates to a primary element or combination of primary elements. Going clockwise from the top right we get air, fire, water, earth and spirit in the middle. The large glyphs are Spren, and correlate to an Order of Kights Radiant and an Honorblade. The small glyphs are Surges and represent a power of creation. Starting from 1:00 and going clockwise the Surges are: External Physical-Gravity, Pressure External Mental-Darkness, Light External Temporal-Transportation (Timespace Contraction) Internal Enhancement-Transformation (Spiritual Connection) Internal Mental-Memory, Awareness Internal Physical-Perception, Strength This fits with Windspren ( Pressure and Gravity), Cryptics (Memory and Transformation) and JasnahSpren (Transportation and Transformation). If this is grouped correctly, StoneWards would be Strength/ Perception. Edit: Skybreakers would be Strength and Gravity, Lightweavers might be Light and Transportation (which could explain how Hoid gets around through time and space) Where are the other 6 Surges? They were never Invested by Honor/Cultivation but the spren exist and some have already been incorporated into fabrials. We see a radiant use Heliodor (gold) to mend wounds and we've seen a painspren fabrial work. What is an Honorspren? What is a Cultivationspren? That depends on how sensitive or specific you want to be. I'll just arbitrarily say you must have more than 50%, which would give you 4 Honorspren, 4 Cultivationspren and two hybrids. A purist would say there are no Honorspren as they all contain a bit of Cultivation. Surges and Symmetry: To understand Voidbinding you will need to grasp the theory behind Surgebinding. Each Surge represents a power of creation and is accessed through an associated Wave, or perhaps through the Concept of how that wave should function, or through a portion of the Ideal Form of the original Wavepattern that sparked the creation of all things. It seems the medium is variable, and you can reproduce a Surgepattern with light, sound, color or even quantum probability waves. Notice that everything in the chart has perfect symmetry. This is a reflection of how waveforms have spin, creating alternating positive and negative cycles and generating perfectly balanced patterns. Symmetry became a cultural obsession in an attempt to get closer to the Harmonic Divine. Voidbinding The Table of Dissonance: Enter Odious Interference. His Intent is either to enslave or destroy everything else in the Cosmere. If He were to join the spiritual union He should add varying amounts of His investiture to each of the available spren, effectively creating a z-axis to the Harmonic Table. But He is a Jealous Younger Brother and didn't want to sully His Essence by combining with others. Instead, He found a way to enslave or destroy the Surges in the Harmonic Table. First, he created a way to trap the Investiture of the paired Shards into StormGems (Fabrials) and harnessed their powers. Next he used those powers to create perfect dissonance in the waveforms of the 10 Surges. Notice that the Table of Dissonance pairs up exactly with the Table of Harmonics. Surges are warped by reversing their charge and spin. This would in effect create an anti-surge. The very powers of creation are turned against themselves. Matter, Spirit and Mind are replaced by Fire and Shadow. EDIT: you can try this out for yourself by drawing a sine wave. Try and swing the part below the x-axis to create net zero at all points along the graph. EDIT: This is a supernova created when a star began to produce antimatter at its core. The organized matter turns into random energy and forms fire and empty space. This theory is far from complete, but it is as thorough as I can make it with the Splinters I'm working with. I'll be trying to finish the Harmonic Table based on Shardic Lens Theory, but could be hard to link everything up with only 10 of the 16 powers. My guess is we will see more Fabrials fill in the gaps for us. Since this theory depends on Honor and Cultivation uniting into one spiritual entity, it serves to reason that they are both partially splintered and partially whole. How that would affect the Cognitive aspect of the two shards is unclear, but best interpreted after reading chapter 57 and 75. Edit: I've done numerous organizational changes to clarify things, and I changed the Labels on the image a bit. For example, Heat changed to Light Edit 4/28: Based on discussions on page 3, renamed inertia to Strength, switched Gravity and Pressure locations. Updated image to reflect changes. Removed "Spin" from OP to avoid unnecessary confusion.
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