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Description: Is there a connection between the Oathgates and their locations and Urithiru beyond the obvious? Are there gates we don't know about? Where are the Oathgates in Shinovar and Aimia located? Hey guys Oathbringer is out, we have new maps! So going over the the map that Salkara made (the black and white one along with the idea of drawing straight lines from the colored map (sorry I don't know it's creator. Please forgive my use of it.) I came up with the 3rd map. Now I admit what I am about to say may not hold up on a globus of Roshar, and I CERTAINLY don't want to slight Brandon's and Peter's dedication, but I have to seriously ask if Brandon and Peter would have plotted this on a GIS program capable of creating a globus? The plot I drew up raises some interesting questions. 1) As you can see, you can plot all of the vectors thru or very close to where Urithiru is plotted on the map. So, question is why? Is there something special about Urithiru other than its fantastic defensive location, something that allowed the creation of the gates? Or, is it more mundane? Were the Cities' Oathgate locations chosen first and Urithiru simply happened to be a least common denominator location? 2) Two of the vectors connect different cities. Kholinar -> Azimir and Thaylen City -> Panatham. So extrapolating from this and treating all 10 gates at Urithiru as a common whole: DOES there need to be an even number of cities on a vector to balance the math? We know how much symmetry is valued on Roshar. That being the case what about the Stormseat->Vedenar->Urithiru vector? It's interesting that this vector continues thru Shinovar and then Aimia. Given that, I took some liberties. We know that Akinah is beyond one of the larger islands. And, as far as Shinovar is concerned, we now know that humans came from another world and humans love building cities on rivers and deltas. Given these facts and the vector line I think the gates may be close to the two points I plotted. 3) So that leads to a couple of flaws. Ral Elorim and Kurth. If they have them, where are their balancing gates to the south of Urithiru? 4) The huge gaps In the Northeast and Southwest. Why? One possible answer might be the location of Honor's and Cultivation's Perpendicularities. Maybe the gate vectors have to be a certain distance from the Perpendicularities. I realize the Kholinar vector goes straight thru the Horneater peaks. But we now know that Cultivation's is in the peaks. If the perpendicularity is in the northern peaks this might hold up. And if that's the case, even though the second Perpendicularity is supposed to appear in random locations and times, could there be something else on the Tukar Peninsula near Icewater?

This may have been discussed somewhere, but I just finished the book and had a major epiphany. This is written with no regard for spoilers. I know that can never be spammed enough, so read on at your own risk. The puzzel pieces Humans came to Roshar as the Voidbringers (probably through shadesmar) I think they came through and built Urithiru to use in conquering Roshar. Odium is captured somehow Great spirits can be captured in fabrials. Urithiru is a giant fabrial that they don’t understand. I think Odium is trapped in Urithiru. Our Radiants have steadily been manipulated by all three gods towards Urithiru. I think Odium wants them to free him while Honor wanted them to defend the prison. The Unmade lured Shallan the the heart of Urithiru, Renarin’s curupted Spren keeps dropping hints on how the place works. I think they will unintentionally free Odium. Odium is collecting Honorblades and Oathgates. This is how he will be set free. The oath pact is connected to the oathgates, which are activated by blades. I think if all the Honerblades are used on all gates it will set him free. To defend from this Honor(who knew his heralds were failing) convinced the Spren of some of the gates to never activate again. They basically say this to Shallan in Shadesmar. This also explains Odiums tactics. He wanted to prevent the Radients from connecting the dots on fabrial traps. He captures gates, but doesn’t use them. I think there is more here. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some mistborn style manipulation of history going on by odium as well. Anyway, let me know what you think. Or, criticize my spelling and grammar. Whatever floats your boat.

Parshendi Forms: From Eshonai's prologue, after Gavilar explains the fabrial: When Venli first meets Timbre, at Eshonai's body: And then Venli bonds with Timbre: And then when talking with the Fuzed named Rine: So the Nahel bond is more powerful than the Parshendi forms bond from capturing spren inside their gemhearts during highstorms to transform, presumably because the only stormlight needed for the Parshendi bond to work is during the bonding itself but not for any of the surges that come after the bond. When Aesudan and Amaram bonded with the Unmade spren, that seems to be a Parshendi bond since they swallowed gems (spheres) to make the bond, with Amaram's purple gemheart glowing in the end and Aesudan's gemheart glowing through her dress. Thunderclasts From the Thaylen City battle: So the stone has gemhearts that, when inhabited by Voidspren, transform the stone into something else. No wonder Szeth's people aren't stonewalkers, right? Does stone have other forms? Chasmfiends Chasmfiends obviously have gemhearts. I think they must have other forms, too. We know chasmfiends, skyeels, and greatshells all have the same spren. From the Kaza interlude, we know that greatshells do also have gemhearts. Are these three different forms for the same being? Do chasmfiends have other forms? Are they also thunderclasts? From Adolin's fight with the thunderclast: Urithiru And then: So we wake it just as the Fuzed woke Thunderclasts from stone, right? We bond Urithiru with a spren. Or multiple spren. Spren that can be trapped in a heart of emerald and ruby. And from the gem library: Dude, is Urithiru the Sibling?!!!! Sibling to the Nightwatcher and the Stormfather? So the Sibling was stolen away? And from the Stormfather's conversation with Dalinar: Slumbering! Sleeping! Just like Dalinar said Urithiru was! And this is why the Radiant says goodnight to Urithiru, goodnight to the Sibling! So we need to find the slumbering Sibling spren and restore her (or probably "them" because the Stormfather refers to the Sibling in the singular and the plural) to Urithiru's heart to waken Urithiru, right? And what will a wakened Urithiru be like? Will she move? Will she protect? Will she destroy? *************************** Related ideas: Fabrials are similar but not as alive as it would seem Urithiru will be and certainly not as alive as Parshendi, chasmfiends, or great shells. Parshmen may not have had gemhearts until the first Everstorm, which restored their gemhearts and thus enabled them to now have forms, including Voidforms. Different Parshendi forms likely come from different types of spren, with Voidform (forms of power) coming from corrupted or Unmade spren. Dullform might be having a gemheart with no spren bond since dullform is so close to parshmen. Are there secrets to other cities, not just Urithiru? Kabsal draws Kholinar as a triangular shape with three outlying wings and a peaked center (Pg 510 of WoK), which incidentally is the symbol on Gavilar's shardplate (Pg 29 of WoK), saying that the city was built on a rock formation already there. The stone windblades of Kholinar seem particularly significant, where Kaladin says the interior corridor of the windblades reminds him of the strata at Urithiru (Pg 785 of OB). I'm equally interested in the City of Shadows and even the City of Bells, but perhaps these cities are special in different ways.

Okay, let me say I believe that chances of this happening is slim to none. But it’s pretty cool. What if Urithiru isn’t just a tower, but a giant barrel of some sort of “shardgun” that can fire into the Cosmere to other planets. I cant even jokingly back this up, but it’s so cool. Also: I’m almost positive Urithiru has a basement or sub levels.

I'm back baby! And i've got a big one here! The third and final greater spren is the sibling. A vast embodiment of stone that used to reside in the giant power core and by extension throughout the gem veins all through the city of urithiru. Probably powering all the different functions that arent working yet. Just like a modern fabrial, it requires stormlight and a spren to function which is why renarin and jasnah were unable to force stormlight into the fabrial to get it to function. From a chapter heading: Good night, dear Urithiru. Good night, sweet Sibling. Good night, Radiants. Between the stormfather and dalinar: "... are there others, though? Spren like you, or the Nightwatcher? Spren that are shadows of Gods?" There is ... a third sibling. They are not with us. "In hiding?" No. Slumbering. "Tell me more." No. "But-" No! Leave them alone! You hurt them enough. My guess is that this sibling was the bonded great spren during the last desolation and was sent into catatonia when the last bondsmith died or lost their oaths. Falling into a long slumber the same way that Sylphrena did. I imagine that the sibling could be woken again and come back to live in urithiru, it might not have to be bonded to someone to power the city. Or maybe we'll get another bondsmith someday! Now for the nature of this third greater spren. Stone seems the obvious affiliation for me. The chapter headers of translations from that early dawnsinger speaks of how the humans turned the spren of the wind and stone against them. We already hear the listeners complain about how the storm (wind) was no longer completely theirs, and i believe the sibling was the other great spren to begin favoring the humans over dawnsingers. Each of the other great spren seem to have gained an influence from the shards present on roshar, the Stormfather and Honor, the Nightwatcher and Cultivation. The final pairing of course: the Sibling and Odium. With the sibling's presumed association with stone it may be responsible for all the great cities and fortifications throughout all of roshar! Using the cymatic vibrations on a huge scale to create the symmetrical fortifications. The striations in kholinar's windblades are pointed out as being identical to those inside urithiru. I think this slumbering Sibling is the architect behind the dawncities. Perhaps this sibling can be woken in the CR the same way that the stormfather came and revived Sylphrena. And we'll get to see it flip the ignition on urithiru or even create new cymatic patterns designed to protect against both the highstorms and everstorms! Discuss!

So, one of the main issues in the book (In my opinion) is how to get Urithiru up and running, fabrial wise. I have a bit of a theory on that. In one of the Epigraphs it talks about the Sibling and other spren connected to Urithiru The first thing I thought when I saw this was that the Radiants were withdrawing from Urithiru because the Sibling had left them. My personal thoughts on this were that the Sibling was what kept the tower running, made the fabrials work, etc. I believe that the Sibling resided in the gemstone pillar in the library of Urithiru, allowing all of the fabrials to work properly, and when they left the tower shut down, forcing the Radiants to leave. One thing that I thought when considering this theory was why did Re-Shephir reside in the gemstone pillar, and why could their presence be constantly felt. The first is obvious, if this theory proves to be true, because the gemstone is connected to all of Urithiru and possibly some of the Siblings power. This also answers the second question. The ENTIRE tower is one huge fabrial, and if the pillar is what powers it all Re-Shephir would be connected to everything, making her presence everywhere in the tower. This would also explain why the pillar can't be infused, because it was powered by a spren akin to the Stormfather or Nightwatcher

So this will be rather quick, because I am on my phone (traveling for a signing). I will attach sources when I have my computer. I propose that the original purpose of the Nightwatcher is to power the gigantic fabrial that is Urithiru. She defended the city, allowed the farms to function, and everything else. Her Bondsmith was continuously in attendance for her. Hints about fabrial: Navani already suspects that the tower is a fabrial. The gemstone pillar and the gemstone seams are the heart and veins of the system, as she points out. There are also references to defense systems in the epihraphs, the lifts, and other machinery that would presumably be powered by stormlight. The big pillar is a big giveaway - it would hold almost an almost unthinkable quantity of Investiture. Perfect for holding a huge Splinter of a Shard - especially the Shard whose magic is fabrials. It is pretty obvious that the city was created as a whole piece by Honor and Cultivation. In addition to a Jasnah WoK epigraph suggesting this, the city is laid out with extreme care. The fabrial was simply set in the walls with the plumbing, guideposts, and ultilities. Failure of the farms: Cultivation would almost certainly want to set things up so that humanity could thrive in the mountains. Since it would be hard to grow things naturally, she sent a big Splinter of her power. When the Nightwatcher ultimately left, the farms no longer could sustain any growth, as they are planning on stone, far up the mountains. Other thoughts: There are Radiant gem memory epigraphs that allude to this. The biggest clue is the one that says "Goodnight Sibling," using the same word that the Stormfather uses to describe the Nightwatcher. This could also be why the Shin hold Urithiru in such regard - the biggest Splinter of their god resided there. It may also provide clues on their views about fabrials. Doesn't it seem weird that a big Splinter just sits in a valley near Urithiru and grant wishes? Especially when the Shard is fully aware and unshackled? I doubt that was Cultivation's original goal. Conclusion: The Nightwatcher is Urithiru's spren. There is a lot of evidence to suggest that this is true. She powered the whole system and her presence enabled the farms. The exact circumstances of her leaving are up for debate. Was it when Cultivation "gave up on humanity" after Honor's death? Is this the secret that Taravangian fears the Alethi will discover? Can only the right Bondsmith fix it? We'll see.

Is anyone else getting the vibe that Dalinar is going to try to step down as "High King" in order to pursue his goal of unification? We've already seen him spend two books and part of a third realizing that forcing Alethkar to "unify" by force didn't really achieve the desired goal, and furthermore entrenched "The Blackthorn - Bloodthirsty Warlord" into the minds of most of the other monarchs. Regardless of whether Taravangian becomes another Bondsmith, I can see Dalinar offering "peaceful" Taravangian the position and moving most of the Alethi forces out of Urithiru in an attempt to sway the otherwise obstinate nations to unlock their oathgates.

So it's looking to me like the giant power cell(s) will be powering lots of different things in Urithiru. In chapter 13 Shallan hangs her hand mirror on a stone knob that she assumes is for hanging a picture on the wall. I doubt it. It stuck out to me on my first read through as being odd and now with some of the information we've gotten im thinking that this could be connected to either ventilation or lighting controls for the individual rooms. Possibly temprature control, though i love the idea of it being a dimmer switch for lighting. The lighting would be the sweetest part, certain layers of the strata in the walls, ceiling, and floor would light up in amazing patterns and colors. Possibly associated with each order's colors? Just in love with the magical solutions replacing all of our mechanical ones.

Could this be a way to trap the Unmade or would it mean **shiver** that someone else would be driven to commit suicide?

So shallan is running around urithiru looking for whatever this thing is. (Presumably an unmade) She's got an abundance of stormlight now considering that she put on a play by herself. It should be much safer for her to attempt soulcasting now (pattern mentions that it is much more dangerous when she only had a little stormlight after the shipwreck) The cognitive realm for urithiru would presumably be oceanish since that's the weird way it works on roshar, but im guessing that the solution will become more clear to shallan once she attempts to soulcast again and sees what's really going on over in the cognitive realm. Perhaps some giant manifestation of this spren that is only partially in the physical realm?! And she slashes it a thousand times with pattern. No clue, but i bet it's going to be weird.

It occurs to me that we would have a better idea of the goings on at ancient Urithiru if we understood the quantity of stormlight portioned out to various needs. First, I think we ought to list all of the major things stormlight was used for in Urithiru. Then, those among us who are better suited to the task can estimate stormlight usage for each task and what the weekly needs would be. Then, if we estimate the maximum time between storms and assume that as a minimum requirement for stormlight storage then we can guess at the maximum amount of stormlight, and the quantity/quality of gems required. As part of this exercise I posit that radiants were given a stormlight allowance, but other people had to pay for it. Feel free to add to the list. Also, we can add a list for things you would like to see added with new technologies... =) So, here goes with the list : PUBLIC UTILITIES Elevator lifts Water usage Garden irrigation Hygiene Consumption Lighting Surgebinding Trade ie, trading dun spheres for charged Oathgate travel FUTURE TECHNOLOGY Giant stormlight laser

I think it's been well established in Oathbringer that Urithiru, or at the very least its upper levels, are above the Highstorms. Such that there are baskets for lowering sphere's to infuse. They seem to make this point several times. My question, then, is why is there crem on top of the tower at the end of WoR when Dalinar goes out to talk to the Stormfather? If rain does actually fall on top of the tower, then I personally wouldn't have considered it above the storms. Note that I'm not referencing Dalinar's assumption that the trapdoor was held in place by crem. I think it's possible that the door was sealed intentionally. I don't want to just come out and make that assumption though, because obviously there is some crem on the tower.

I didn't see a topic for this, but please enlighten me if I'm wrong. I am naming it somewhat obliquely because there used to be a "feature" that allowed the titles of spoiler threads to appear in non-spoiler forums. I think I must have missed a part of Shallan's previous story where she observed this for herself, but if it's news to others, then there is the question of whether it's real. Edit: This was all I found (Chapter 13), and it doesn't seem as clear as Mraize claims: So the first issue I have is that the Ghostbloods believe: So the darkness and wrongness of this place are not on the axis of morality? They must be power, because they don't seem like loyalty to me. Whatever, the Ghostbloods don't make sense to me. Anyhoo, on to the hopefully answerable questions. I have learned so much from the 17th Shard hivemind and I understand so little that I thought to call on you again: Does this darkness relate to the stones being Unhallowed that Szeth could walk on them? Is this darkness part of why the Radiants abandoned it? Did the darkness contribute to Adolin losing control and killing Torol Sadeas? Is this malign influence encouraging further mayhem? Is it behind the replicated murders? Is it Odious, independent or an effect of the Oathpact? What is it's nature? Does Urithiru have a spren? Edit: Shallan can't draw it. She couldn't draw Cryptics, either. Probably not related, but perhaps similar cognitive causes. What are the even better questions that I have missed? Thanks!

I read chapter 47. of WoR as part of my reread before OB. Shallan and Pattern and conversing and this caught my eye, 'Urithiru,' Shallan said, pointing toward a shining city depicted on the map as the center of everything." The last chapter previews of OB reveled that the spheres are holding investiture longer than normal in U city. Who thinks the quoted line is a throwaway or was it subtle worldbuilding? Will the tower light up like Christmas during the next highstorm? Before you get started: yes Dalinar thinks they have to lower the gems to get them to infuse, but that's speculation on his part. There is crem in the city, so the city can't completely be above the storm.

During my re-read of WoK, I noticed some things about Urithiru I hadn’t paid attention to before or didn’t see in the same light as I do now. I want to give a shout-out to @Calderis for being the first one to suggest there is something wrong with present day Urithiru. Note the following quotes from WoK: Urithiru is supposed to have a pattern, but in OB Shallan cannot see it, she can't really draw to city. Could it be like the Shattered plains, a problem of scale? Or is it connected to the darkness she feels? I suggest it due to the corruption of the city that somehow interferes with her abilities. Based on this, I suggest something happened that prodded the Radiants to make ‘unreasonable tariffs’ to discourage non-surgebinders from visiting Urithiru. Whatever it was, it got so bad it eventually forced the Radiants themselves to leave the city. From WoR: If Jasnah is right (we know she tends to be) and Urithiru was holy and protected, it’s unlikely it lost Shardic protection before it was abandoned because Honor was still around. Thus I suggest the very anti-voidbringer protection system somehow backfired. Whatever happened, it corrupted Urithiru itself. It is likely connected to the copycat murders in the present. OB Update: Urithiru was slowly becoming uninhabitable with many of its systems failing: We also learn the city had and lost a protection mechanism against the Unmade: A reason for all of this is not given, but in the same gemlibrary is mentioned the withdraw of the Sibling (Bondsmith spren), however it’s unclear if they are connected to the tower and its failing functions. The entries by the Radiants do not sound like people preparing to abandon their duty. How Urithiru was corrupted and will the new Radiants manage to fix it unlike their predecessors remains to be seen.

In Shallan's new chapters we've noticed several mentions of the patterns on the walls of Urithiru. Now, this may just be a coincidence due to her greater aesthetic refinement, but I think there is more to it than that. We know that Lightweaving involves "Light, Sound, and other waveforms." To me, the patterns could very well be some of these other "waveforms." Thus, the majority of the information the Radiants had gathered is encoded in the walls, waiting to be unlocked by an appropriately aware Lightweaver. This is part of Urithiru's protection, since even if an enemy gets inside, they can't get at any of the Radiant's information since they aren't bonded with a Cryptic and don't have the surges to interpret it. Let me know if you have any other ideas as to why so much time has been spent expositing the walls.

So this is my first topic on here and I thought I'd share some ideas I've been having about Progression and specifically its Growth (as opposed to Regrowth or healing aspect). I think as a community (probably rightly) are more excited about the applications of Progression for battlefield healing etc but two things that we've learnt in the preview chapters have had me wondering as to whether the historical radiants also used it to produce food during desolations. One is the fact that Urithiru contains lots of fields, the other is the ability Dalinar showed to co-opt and possibly magnify the surges of others. It seems apparent that Urithiru was at least partially built as a final fortress for humanity in the eventuality that a desolation drove them from everywhere else in Roshar and this is obviously why it has these fields (as well as saving the Radiants from having to trade with others in times of peace). The problem though is that given that Urithiru has the capacity to hold very large numbers of people these fields seem insufficient. Now in present times, Rosharans survive sieges by turning things into food directly through Soulcasters, which is likely more Stormlight efficient than using progression to grow plants of which not all is edible, additional energy is required to be turned into bread and are generally less nutritious than meat. This is especially true as farming is far less time efficient than Soulcasting - why would the Radiants bother to spend the best part of a year growing crops when in that time multiple Highstorms will come to give additional Stormlight to use for Soulcasting food directly? The problem with the idea of using progression to speed up farming to near instantaneous is that it is likely that as with other surges you can only use it on plants you are actually touching. But when I read Dalinar co-opting Shallan's Lightweaving (with what I presume is his Resonance) to produce an effect she herself was incapable of I wondered whether it might be possible for a Bondsmith to use the Surge of Progression to cover an entire field and so accelerate the growth of the crops throughout. The visual image of her Stormlight spreading to fill out the room struck me as similar to that of a Truthwatcher or Edgedancer touching the soil under the influence of a Bondsmith and his Stormlight spreading to grow seeds instantly to maturity. As I see it there are two problems with the theory, one it is unclear whether Bondsmiths could, in fact, do this - especially if the seeds aren't touching each other, the other is it is unclear how the Stormlight efficiency of this would line up next to Soulcasting. The fact does remain, however, that Urithiru's fields seem both insufficient and redundant when servicing its population given the existence of Soulcasting. If anyone has any relevant WOBs or thoughts on the Growth aspect of Progression or the fields of Urithiru I'd love to hear them but thanks for reading this longish post

What if Urithiru's cognitive aspect has been moved and kept somewhere else? Secret History spoilers 1. This could be why Shallan has problems drawing it. 2. This could also explain why it's so easy to get lost in there (I'm not sure if changing stuff in the Cognitive Realm actually affects how people think about it though). And maybe the lines that Shallan follows (remember how she didn't have a problem taking a memory of these to draw later?) are the only parts that are actually "there". 3. It also explains why Szeth said he didn't mind standing on it since it's "unhallowed". They worship the "souls of stones" right? If the souls were moved they would be fine standing on it. 4. Maybe it's why nobody's found Urithiru in a long time. 5. I'm not convinced about this one, but maybe it's how the Oathgates work. Maybe the Oathgates have parts of Urithiru's "Spren" and that lets them bring things to it's actually physical location (like what it's "Spren" wants to do).

Setting You’ve followed Dalinar and his army to the lost city of Urithiru. With Alethi and other peoples arriving more and more every day, the city is becoming a rather bustling place, which is perfect for an agent such as yourself. What better way to subtly manipulate the decisions--especially with the Desolation nigh at hand? Unfortunately for you, you’re not the only one trying to control what’s going on. You’ve learned that there is another group working against your cause, and there are even rumors of a third group, undermining the other two. The Sons of Honour and the Ghostbloods have never gotten along, and now is no different. However, as people start disappearing from the city, you fear you might have to work together to solve the problem. Some of the disappearances are people you’ve never met and you think they might work for the other side, but others are people you know. Maybe the rumors are true. Maybe someone is trying to remove the other players in this politically manipulative game. Can you find them before they kill you too? Teams There are three teams, spread between two factions. The members of each faction will not be publicly announced in the thread, but you will have an idea of who is on your team (more on that in a bit). Sons of Honour You’re a devout Vorin, and if you could go back to the times of old and bring the Hierocracy back, you would. In fact, you’re convinced that all you need to do is find the Voidbringers, because once they return, the Heralds will be back. And how can anyone deny Vorin dominance when their very gods are saving the people from the Desolation? Ghostbloods You’re a Ghostblood. Fascinated with the Desolations and the Parshendi, you’re not interested in causing another Desolation, and you certainly aren’t interested in another Hierocracy. You’d like nothing better than to stop the Everstorm and the Desolation from taking place, and you hope by being in Urithiru, you can have some effect in keeping it at bay. Diagrammists You believe in the Diagram written by King Taravangian. Devoted to bringing stability to Roshar, you’ve noticed that these two other groups, the Ghostbloods and the Sons of Honour, only seek to destabilize the political structures, making them easier to bend to their will. To stop them, you and a number of other Diagrammists have infiltrated the Ghostblood and Sons of Honour ranks, and you are intent to end their manipulations in Urithiru once and for all. You have one group kill per cycle, but you do not have access to a Google doc to collaborate, and must rely on PM communication. The Roles To further your faction’s cause, members of your factions have abilities that will help you perform your tasks. Roles will be evenly distributed between the factions, and then randomly distributed among faction members (including Diagrammists). Roles are not revealed upon death. Not all members will have a role. Those who have no role are Regulars. Knight Radiants Amazingly, some of you have shown surgebinding potential and are well on your way to becoming Knight Radiants. With causes such as the ones you’re fighting for, you don’t expect to have any Radiants from Orders like the Windrunners, who rely far too much on honour, or the Skybreakers, who are driven by justice, which is something you tend to bend if it suits your purposes. However, not all the Orders are stuffy, and some of them are even pretty useful to your faction. Both factions will have an equal number of Knight Radiants in their ranks. This distribution will be random. Note: there is only one Bondsmith in the game, regardless of how many Radiants are included. Bondsmith - You’re all about uniting people under a common cause, and you believe your faction’s goals are the only way to bring about true unity in these trying times. You have access to the surges of Tension and Adhesion, but you can only use one per cycle. Tension - Each cycle, you can create a PM between any two players (can self target). Send in your request to the GM, who will set it up for you at the end of the cycle (accounting for any redirection and/or other blocking abilities). This PM can continue for as long as both participants are alive. Adhesion - Uniting people is what you do. Nothing brings you more joy than bringing two people together--particularly if those two people used to be enemies. You can choose two people each cycle, and on the following cycle, those two people must ultimately vote identically. The GM will PM the lucky two to tell them of this new, unbreakable (at least for a day) friendship. Edgedancer - You don’t care much for your faction's grand plans, but you figure that if you’re not there, the little details will get overlooked. Plus, you like putting your abilities to good use. You have access to the surges of Friction and Progression, but you can only use one per cycle. Progression - With the power of Regrowth, you like saving things, whether it’s making a nearly dead plant grow or healing an injured person. You can protect any player from one kill attempt each cycle. However, you cannot save yourself. Friction - You’re so fast, you can sneak into someone’s private rooms, read all their messages, and get out before being seen. You can spy on all outgoing PM’s from one player per cycle. The recipient of the messages is not included. Lightweaver - A true artist, you’re less concerned about who wins and more concerned that such an historic time is documented. You’re still choosing to help out your faction, though, because what better way to make sure things stay interesting? You have access to the surges of Illumination and Transformation, but you can only use one per cycle. Illumination - Each cycle, you can redirect one random action from your target to a different target. Transformation - You can change a vote (including no vote) to another player. Elsecaller - Some people might wonder why an Elsecaller, one of the more benevolent orders, is caught up in such schemes, but kindness is all based on perception, right? You believe your faction’s cause is what’s best for everyone, and you’ll do all you can to help people based on that belief. You have access to the surges of Transformation and Transportation, but you can only use one per cycle. Transformation - You can target a dead player, changing their appearance (role) for the following two cycles. Transportation - This action prevents any action from other players that targets you, no matter the action, from affecting you for a whole cycle. Lynches will still kill you. Other Professions Surgeon - You studied medicine in Kharbranth itself, learning at the best hospitals in the world. Your skills are second to none (although there are a few who are equally as good as you are). You can protect any player from one kill attempt per cycle, but you cannot protect yourself. Runner - Trained by one of the fastest messengers alive, you take pride in your speed of delivery. You’re among the fastest in Urithiru, making you a hot commodity. Each cycle, you can create a PM with two players (can self target). Send in your request to the GM, who will set it up for you at the end of the cycle (accounting for any redirection and/or other blocking abilities). This PM can continue for as long as both participants are alive. Artifabrian - Although ardents are the only people allowed to use Soulcasting, it would, to say the very least, be rather naive to expect that rule to be strictly obeyed. As an artifabrian, you have engineered and experimented with a variety of fabrials in order to improve on your designs, some of which push the very boundaries of what is thought possible. Every cycle, you may pick a target. One random action that would affect the target comes to you instead. Ardent - As a member of the ardentia, you are a member of a key group in Alethi society. Being an ardent has its contradictions: while you are free from the customs and constraints governing each gender, your life is not your own; you are considered the property of a lighteyes, and are not permitted to own anything. More importantly, you have exclusive access to knowledge of Soulcasting and fabrials. Using this, you may change a vote (including no vote) to another player (or no one) each cycle. Cook - You learned your impressive culinary skills among the Horneaters, and you can cook a meal like these lowlanders haven’t ever tasted before. You know how to mask the most potent flavors in a dish, and occasionally, you’ve been known to use that skill for less-than-pleasant purposes. You’ve racked up quite the body count with some of your culinary surprises. Each cycle, you can attempt to kill any player. Veristitalian Scholar - For you, the past is never dead; it takes a clever mind to sift through the detritus to reconstruct history objectively--as things truly happened. Where historians seek to paint themselves in the most flattering light, you see yourself as a dispassionate seeker of the truth: for you know that in the past lies the answers to the future. Each cycle, you can research one of the dead to discover role. Explorer - You’ve been recruited by Dalinar to map out Urithiru. Spending your nights in the uninhabited regions of the lost city, you don’t see much other than your maps, and no one sees you either, until you surface in the morning. Every other cycle, you can prevent any and all actions targeting you, including lynches, from affecting you. Assassin - You’re a master assassin, and you have many skills at your disposal. You’re invisible when you want to be, you have a knack for learning the information you need to get into inaccessible places, and you see things others tend to miss. Unfortunately for you, your assassin services aren’t needed as much here in Urithiru, but that doesn’t mean you can’t use your other skills. You can watch a player any cycle, learning the identity of one random player who targeted them (regardless of whether the action succeeded or not) The Positions Every well-established group has a command structure. The Sons of Honour and Ghostbloods are no different. While not every member knows who all the others are, each one knows someone, and a few have even more knowledge. Every cycle, a person in command can make one PM with any member below them in the command chain. This person does not have to be directly below them, and these PMs can be created at any point in the cycle. Positions are assigned randomly, with no distinction between loyal members of the faction and the Diagrammists. Thaidakar (Ghostbloods) and Restares (Sons of Honour) - You are the leader of your group. You know the identity of every member and the position they hold within. Commander - You report directly to your leader. As such, you know his identity. You also know the identities of the people who report to you. This is only a fraction of the members in the group though, as there are multiple Commanders. Captain - Reporting to the Commander, you know his identity but haven’t a clue who the leader is. That’s okay, though. You have enough responsibility as it is. You know the identities of a fraction of the Regular members. Private - You’re just a regular member of the group, but that doesn’t mean you don’t get to have fun. You’re just as important as the others, except that you don’t quite know who’s on your side. You only know the identity of your Captain. Win Conditions Primary Win Condition Sons of Honour and Ghostbloods: Kill the Diagrammists Diagrammists: Kill everyone else. Secondary Win Condition Sons of Honour or Ghostbloods need to kill the other faction’s KRs. The faction with the most KR’s alive if/when all Diagrammists are dead wins. The other loses. If both factions have equal numbers of Radiants alive or all Radiants are dead, they tie and win together. Alternate Win Condition If an equal number of members from all three teams (Sons of Honour, Ghostbloods, Diagrammists) is alive at any point in the game and the Bondsmith is still alive, the remaining players win together, united in one cause by the Bondsmith. Order of Actions Transportation/Exploration Illumination/Artifabrian/Assassin Progression/Surgeon/Tension/Runner/Elsecaller Transformation/Scholar Lightweaver Transformation/Ardent/Friction/Adhesion Kills/Lynch GM Notes GMs: Wilson and STINK Impartial Moderator: Alvron Player Cap This game will have a player cap, to be chosen by the GMs after signups are closed, depending on the how many players sign up. That cap will be somewhere between 20-25 players. However, more players can sign up. We will use an RNG to decide who plays the game out of those who sign up, and those not chosen will go onto the Pinch Hitter list. Inactivity Filter This game will also have an inactivity filter. Any player who does not post, PM (if they can) and submit an action (if they can) in the first two cycles of the game will be replaced by someone on the Pinch Hitter list. After the first two cycles, any player who doesn’t post, PM, or submit an action for two cycles will be killed. Please note that this means you must do all three, if you are able, to be considered active in the first two cycles of the game. After the first two cycles, you only have to do one of the three to be considered active and not killed. If you must go inactive for a short time, please let the GMs and the thread know when you will be going inactive and when you will return. This period of inactivity cannot go beyond three cycles. If it goes beyond two, you will not be killed by the filter (though you could be killed by the lynch or another kill). If you do not return on the date/cycle specified, you will be killed. Rollover Rollovers will be at 12:30 PM MST/7:30 PM GMT. Signups will close at 11:30 AM MST/6:30 PM GMT on Monday, 2 January, so we don't have to worry about rollovers are New Year's Eve or New Year's Day. The game will start an hour later. PMs will go out during that hour. Player List Quick Links

So I was stewing about this and found out Falconite beat me to the conclusion by a few years in http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/7493-something-holy-about-urithiru-and-shinovar/ But wanted to gather what we know and have a think: - Szeth says he can stand on the stones in Urithiru. - Shin are OK with using/touching metal as long as it’s soulcast, so might they feel the same about stone? - WoB says the distinction is cultural: http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1107#19 So I agree with Falconite, Urithiru is an immense soulcast structure or collection of structures. What think you? Furthermore, as such an old place can *still* be considered OK to tread upon by Szeth: - There must be no crem build-up. Or at the very least there is no crem build-up on the upper part of the tower. - Also there are glass windows facing east. Again, at least in the upper part of the tower. - Then there is partial confirmation that Urithiru is protected from Easterly storms (Everstorm) by mountain(s) and (possibly) protected from westerly storms (Highstorms) because of extreme height: http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1100#1 So Storms do not touch this place. Or at least they don’t touch the upper tower. Which leads me to my second point/question. Why is Crem "hallowed?" We know it is not completely natural. (http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1163#39) Is that all there is to it? The Shin are aware of its nature?

The Setting You’ve followed Dalinar and his army to the lost city of Urithiru. With Alethi and other peoples arriving more and more every day, the city is becoming a rather bustling place, which is perfect for an agent such as yourself. What better way to subtly manipulate the decisions--especially with the Desolation nigh at hand? Unfortunately for you, you’re not the only one trying to control what’s going on. You’ve learned that there is another group working against your cause, and there are even rumors of a third group, undermining the other two. The Sons of Honor and the Ghostbloods have never gotten along, and now is no different. However, as people start disappearing from the city, you fear you might have to work together to solve the problem. Some of the disappearances are people you’ve never met and you think they might work for the other side, but others are people you know. Maybe the rumors are true. Maybe someone is trying to remove the other players in this politically manipulative game. Can you find them before they kill you too? The Teams There are three teams, spread between two factions. The members of each faction will not be publicly announced in the thread, but you will have an idea of who is on your team (more on that in a bit). Players’ alignments are not revealed upon death. Sons of Honor You’re a devout Vorin, and if you could go back to the times of old and bring the Hierocracy back, you would. In fact, you’re convinced that all you need to do is find the Voidbringers, because once they return, the Heralds will be back. And how can anyone deny Vorin dominance when their very gods are saving the people from the Desolation? Ghostbloods You’re a Ghostblood. Fascinated with the Desolations and the Parshendi, you’re not interested in causing another Desolation, and you certainly aren’t interested in another Hierocracy. You’d like nothing better than to stop the Everstorm and the Desolation from taking place, and you hope by being in Urithiru, you can have some effect in keeping it at bay. Diagrammists You believe in the Diagram written by King Taravangian. Devoted to bringing stability to Roshar, you’ve noticed that these two other groups, the Ghostbloods and the Sons of Honor, only seek to destabilize the political structures, making them easier to bend to their will. To stop them, you and a number of other Diagrammists have infiltrated the Ghostblood and Sons of Honor ranks, and you are intent to end their manipulations in Urithiru once and for all. You have one group kill per cycle and will have access to a Google Doc in which to conspire. The Roles To further your faction’s cause, you all have abilities that help you perform your tasks. Roles will be evenly distributed between the factions, and then randomly distributed among all faction members (including Diagrammists). Roles are not revealed upon death. Knight Radiants Amazingly, some of you have shown surgebinding potential and are well on your way to becoming Knight Radiants. With causes such as the ones you’re fighting for, you don’t expect to have any Radiants from Orders like the Windrunners, who rely far too much on honor, or the Skybreakers, who are driven by justice, which is something you tend to bend if it suits your purposes. However, not all the Orders are stuffy, and some of them are even pretty useful to your faction. Both factions have four Knight Radiants in their ranks, equally distributed between the factions. However, because there is only one Bondsmith in the game, the faction without the Bondsmith will get a random, fourth Radiant. Bondsmith - You’re all about uniting people under a common cause, and you believe your faction’s goals are the only way to bring about true unity in these trying times. You have access to the surges of Tension and Adhesion, but you can only use one per cycle. Tension - Each cycle, you can create a PM with one player. Send in your request to the GMs, who will set it up for you at the end of the cycle (accounting for any redirection and/or other blocking abilities). This PM can continue for as long as both participants are alive. Adhesion - Uniting people is what you do. Nothing brings you more joy than bringing two people together--particularly if those two people used to be enemies. You can choose two people each cycle, and on the following cycle, those two people must ultimately vote identically. The GM will PM the lucky two to tell them of this new, unbreakable (at least for a day) friendship. Edgedancer - You don’t care much for your faction's grand plans, but you figure that if you’re not there, the little details will get overlooked. Plus, you like putting your abilities to good use. You have access to the surges of Friction and Progression, but you can only use one per cycle. Progression - With the power of Regrowth, you like saving things, whether it’s making a nearly dead plant grow or healing an injured person. You can protect any player from one kill attempt each cycle, including lynch. However, you cannot save yourself. Friction - You’re so fast, you can sneak into someone’s private rooms, read all their messages, and get out before being seen. You can spy on all outgoing PM’s from one player per cycle. The recipient of the messages is not included. Lightweaver - A true artist, you’re less concerned about who wins and more concerned that such an historic time is documented. You’re still choosing to help out your faction, though, because what better way to make sure things stay interesting? You have access to the surges of Illumination and Transformation, but you can only use one per cycle. Illumination - redirect one random action from target to a different target Transformation - change a vote (including no vote) to another player Elsecaller - Some people might wonder why an Elsecaller, one of the more benevolent orders, is caught up in such schemes, but kindness is all based on perception, right? You believe your faction’s cause is what’s best for everyone, and you’ll do all you can to help people based on that belief. You have access to the surges of Transformation and Transportation, but you can only use one per cycle. Transformation - change the appearance (alignment and role) of a dead player for two cycles. Transportation - prevent any action on them that cycle--except lynches. (self-target) Other Professions Surgeon - You studied medicine in Kharbranth itself, learning at the best hospitals in the world. Your skills are second to none (although there are a few who are equally as good as you are). You can protect any player from one kill attempt per cycle, but you cannot protect yourself. Runner - Trained by one of the fastest messengers alive, you take pride in your speed of delivery. You’re among the fastest in Urithiru, making you a hot commodity. Each cycle, you can create a PM with one player. Send in your request to the GMs, who will set it up for you at the end of the cycle (accounting for any redirection and/or other blocking abilities). This PM can continue for as long as both participants are alive. Artifabrian - Although ardents are the only people allowed to use Soulcasting, it would, to say the very least, be rather naive to expect that rule to be strictly obeyed. As an artifabrian, you have engineered and experimented with a variety of fabrials in order to improve on your designs, some of which push the very boundaries of what is thought possible. Every cycle, you may pick a target. One random action that would affect the target comes to you instead. Ardent - As a member of the ardentia, you are a member of a key group in Alethi society. Being an ardent has its contradictions: while you are free from the customs and constraints governing each gender, your life is not your own; you are considered the property of a lighteyes, and are not permitted to own anything. More importantly, you have exclusive access to knowledge of Soulcasting and fabrials. Using this, you may change a vote (including no vote) to another player (or no one) each cycle. Cook - You learned your impressive culinary skills among the Horneaters, and you can cook a meal like these lowlanders haven’t ever tasted before. You know how to mask the most potent flavors in a dish, and occasionally, you’ve been known to use that skill for less-than-pleasant purposes. You’ve racked up quite the body count with some of your culinary surprises. Each cycle, you can attempt to kill any player. Veristitalian Scholar - For you, the past is never dead; it takes a clever mind to sift through the detritus to reconstruct history objectively--as things truly happened. Where historians seek to paint themselves in the most flattering light, you see yourself as a dispassionate seeker of the truth: for you know that in the past lies the answers to the future. Each cycle, you can research one of the dead to discover alignment and role. Explorer - You’ve been recruited by Dalinar to map out Urithiru. Spending your nights in the uninhabited regions of the lost city, you don’t see much other than your maps, and no one sees you either, until you surface in the morning. Every other cycle, you can prevent any and all actions targeting you, including lynches, from affecting you. Assassin - You’re a master assassin, and you have many skills at your disposal. You’re invisible when you want to be, you have a knack for learning the information you need to get into inaccessible places, and you see things others tend to miss. Unfortunately for you, your assassin services aren’t needed as much here in Urithiru, but that doesn’t mean you can’t use your other skills. You can watch a player any cycle, learning the identity of one random player who targeted them (regardless of whether the action succeeded or not) The Positions Every well-established group has a command structure. The Sons of Honor and Ghostbloods are no different. While not every member knows who all the others are, each one knows someone, and a few have even more knowledge. Positions are assigned randomly, with no distinction between loyal members of the faction and the Diagrammists. Thaidakar (Ghostbloods) and Restares (Sons of Honor) - You are the leader of your group. You know the identity of every member and the position they hold within. Commander - You report directly to your leader. As such, you know his identity. You also know the identities of the people who report to you. This is only a fraction of the members in the group though, as there are multiple Commanders. Captain - Reporting to the Commander, you know his identity but haven’t a clue who the leader is. That’s okay, though. You have enough responsibility as it is. You know the identities of a fraction of the Regular members. Regular - You’re just a regular member of the group, but that doesn’t mean you don’t get to have fun. You’re just as important as the others, except that you don’t quite know who’s on your side. You only know the identity of your Captain. Win Conditions Primary Win Condition Sons of Honor and Ghostbloods: Kill the Diagrammists Diagrammists: Kill everyone else. Secondary Win Condition Sons of Honor or Ghostbloods need to kill the other faction’s KRs. Each faction has four (only four Orders are in the game, but there is only one Bondsmith; the faction without the Bondsmith gets a random additional KR). The faction with the most KR’s alive if/when all Diagrammists are dead wins. The other loses. If both factions have an equal number of Radiants alive or all Radiants are dead, they tie and win together. Alternate Win Condition If an equal number of each team (Sons of Honor, Ghostbloods, and Diagrammists) is alive at any point in the game and the Bondsmith is still alive, the remaining players win together, united in one cause by the Bondsmith. All the dead players lose. Micellaneous Points of Order GMs: Wilson and Kasimir Order of Actions: Transportation/Explorer, Illumination/Artifabrian Assassin (starts watching) Progression/Surgeon, Tension/Runner, EC Transformation LW Transformation/Ardent, Friction, Adhesion Scholar Diagrammist kills, Cook Lynch Rollover Time: 9am MST/midnight SGT (4pm GMT) Number of Players/Role Distribution: In order for all roles to be in the game, there will need to be at least 26 players. This game can run on less, but not all the roles will be included, and we will not tell you which roles are not in the game. If there are more than 26 players, fantastic! Quick Links:

While reading the ending of WoR, where Shalan is wondering about Nohadon walking to Urithiru, it struck me that there may be some inconsistencies in what he claims. Many thanks to Lightflame and this thread: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/2551-theory-that-one-guy-isnt-nohadon/?hl=nohadon#entry44934 because it got me thinking that Nohadon from the vision and in world author ot TWoK Nohadon may be different people. Let's see why this may be: 1. In the in-world book TWoK, Nohadon claims that after the Desolation he lived a comfortable life. He also claims to have walked to Urithiru. Aside the fact that in WoR, Shallan thinks to herself that walking would not have been possible, since the city was high up in the mountains and they had not found any way down besides the Oathgates. So, either the way is magically sealed or, Nohadon walked to another city, or Nohadon did not walk to Urithiru. 2.Assuming the vision Dalinar had was of Nohadon, it occurs at the end of a Desolation. Meaning that the Heralds are going back to wherever it is they go after Desolations. The Knights Radiant still do not exist, but Surgebinders as a group do. The Nohadon of the vision bemoans the fact that there needs to be some kind of regulation on Surgebinding. But, according to the in-world WoR, Ishar is the one who imposed the oaths on the Surgebinders and made them into Knights Radiant. BUT, this would have to have happened during at least the next Desolation after Dalinar's vision, once Ishar returned and thus after Nohadon's lifetime (unless, you know Nohadon has a longer than usual lifespan). 3.In the in-world TWoK, Urithiru and oathgates exist. But you say, didn't the Radiants create those? Well, let us assume they did. After all, in the lore and books, it is they that use them. So, can this be explained if vision Nohadon is actual author Nohadon? Can a non-existant organization at the time of the vision, build such a majestic tower and the oathgates in the span of a king's regular lifetime? Let's assume he lived another 50 years. Could he have united the surgebinders, got them to work togther and rebuild Roshar, and afterwards build The enormous tower at Urithiru and the Oathgates? In 50 years? Sounds highly unlikely. 4.There is assumed to be an Oathgate in each of the capitals of the Silver Kingdoms. Yet vision Nohadon doesn't mention any known city or kingdom from that list. Is it because the Silver Kingdoms came about after the Radiants formed? 5.It follows that: a)if vision Nohadon is author Nohadon, then he found a way (through the Nahel bond maybe?) to extend his life through at least more than one Desolation so that he was able to witness/assist in the formation of the Knights Radiant and then write his memoirs down. There is a large time discrepancy that can only be explained through magical means. b)vision Nohadon is not author Nohadon because: The Knights Radiant organization does not exist in the vision, yet author Nohadon mentions them so casually in his book, as if they have been around for so long a time, that people of his time easily recognize them; if Ishar organized them, then the radiants would have been founded at the beginning of or during a Desolation, meaning vision Nohadon would not have been alive; Urithiru,could not have been in existence during the vision, but only after, but that would have taken at least one more Desolation for the Radiants to form and many years to build; Oathgates are being used and they are not some novel invention, because everyone chides Nohadon for walking instead of using the Oathgates. c)Urithiru is not in the same place as it used to be, or it is not the same city as that which Nohadon described. It may be a city built at a different location and date than in book Urithiru, and the original Oathgates were just surgebinders that personally elsecalled people to Uirthiru. Thank you for reading.

The Coppermind says it's to the west of Alethela, which rules out 1/3 of the continent. WoB on how it could withstand an Everstorm says that it's on the east side of the mountain. There's no word on what is visible from the tower where Dalinar talked to the Stormfather, or what one can see through the window in the room at the end. However, I still think we can tell where it is. The most obvious candidate, the Horneater Peaks, are ineligible because their eastern side is within Alethela territory. That leaves the Misted Mountains, the mountain range dividing the Purelake region from Azir, the peaks in Thaylenah, and the Irish and Rirish peaks. Szeth's flight was from the Shattered Plains to wherever Urithiru was (And he knew where it was, because he'd used the spot to meditate before). Szeth thinks he was rezzed in the Frostlands, which would put his trajectory almost due west of the Plains, but we don't know if he's right. If he is, that rules out the Iri and Rira ranges, and possibly the Misted Mountains as well. Nalan, Szeth's savior, was last seen in Azir, menacing Lift. His and Szeth's conversation after Szeth's rebirth is held on an "empty rock expanse" which is literally everywhere outside of Shinovar, and thus spectacularly useless for the purposes of deducing Urithiru's location. Given this evidence, I suspect that Urithiru is in the mountain range marked as "The Valley," just west of Tu Fallia, but I admit the case is far from conclusive. Edit: Except of course for the fact that I misposted which direction Szeth ran in. It's fixed now.