Search the Community

Enjoy this meme.

Hello there! This piece is simply an arrangement of what I see in Szeth's turmoil in being labelled 'Truthless'. It is currently in progress. Please criticize and describe what story it tells you... My goal is to tell a small part of Szeth's story through the piece... Enjoy!

@turtle @Ghanderflaffle @Negative_Null @Rosharan A.C. @Cosmical Existence @Matrim's Dice @Doomstick @Kings_way @Experience @A Windrunner @Enter a username WE ARE THE TRUTHLESS

Hi everybody! I'm wondering how interested people are in the yin and yan aspect of Szeth and Nightblood. Not only in their personalities, but in their aesthetics. Specifically, I'm wondering if any of the talented artists on this site would be interested in drawing Szeth and Nightblood AS the yin and yan, what with the flowing of the loose white clothes and the black smoke. It's how I imagine him when he bears Nightblood at the battle of Theylena; rising inevitably into the air, one arm in front of himself as if in prayer, the other outstretched, sweeping Nightblood in a flowing arc around himself, for one instant the white and black in perfect balance, separate, yet mibgled. Or however a willing artist pictures him . I can't draw well but I can see it so clearly. I think it's a powerful image and I'd like to be able to show it to others who are on the fence about reading! Thanks for the consideration, and if anyone else thinks this aspect of the bond is interesting, hit me up! I never get sick of talking about the Cosmere!

I have a theory that Szeth was a developing surgebinder/ Knight Radiant prior to becoming the Assassin in White. When he tried to tell others about his powers, or even that the Knight’s Radiant were returning, they refused to believe him, and renounced him Truthless. The first evidence I noticed of this is from Words of Radiance. This is a passage from Kaladin and Szeth’s first encounter: Szeth is horrified and enraged after hearing Kaladin claim to be a Windrunner. He cannot believe the Knight’s Radiant are returning, because if it’s true then he was wrongly named Truthless and all the killing and suffering was put upon him unjustly. Even stronger evidence comes from Oathbringer when Szeth is confiding in Nightblood: I think the voice he is remembering was a spren he had bonded in his youth. A spren he ultimately killed through his actions as the Assassin in White. Does anyone else have any opinions? If he wasn't previously a surgebinder, what was the voice he was referring to? Also, I found it surprising that I couldn’t find anyone else talking about this. Feel free to let me know if there is already a post somewhere on the same topic that I missed.

Szeth has decided that, if Dalinar allows, he will "cleanse the Shin of their false leaders" Now, we know that he was named Truthless because he made the claim that the "voidbringers" were returning. With the Listeners and the Fused reclaiming their land, Szeth has determined that his statement was true and that the Stone Shamenate was wrong. However, I propose that the Shamenate knew that the "Voidbringers" were, in fact, humans., and thus could not "return" because they never left; making it technically true that Szeth's claim was false. I expect this to be a complication of his quest. As a corollary, I believe the Shin to be a group of humans who attempted to begin following the Listener religion upon their arrival. Hence their language being included in the dawnate group, their reverence for stone and spren, and their remaining secluded in the area created for them on Roshar. That last point requires an explanation of the Shin Conquest and possibly some explanation of why only humans lacking the epicanthic fold decided to do this. For the Shin Conquest I'm on board with the theory that its primary purpose was to recover an honorblade or shardblade until a better theory presents itself. For the epicanthic fold distinction, is it possible that Ashyn and Braize had distinct groups of humans and each had a cataclysm as a result of surges. Perhaps Shin are from one planet and other Rosharn humans from the other. Thoughts?

So first Szeth believes that the radiants are coming back. This somehow leads to him being exiled, deemed "Truthless" which, according to societal convention, binds him as a slave to the wielder of a rock. But then why would he be given the Honorblade for the Windrunners if he was being punished or removed from society. Either something is missing/wrong with Szeth's recollection or the Shin are extremely odd.

On page 944 of WoK there is a drawing of a man raising a sword, and "shining". He is barely dressed, and in surrounded by people all dressed alike and all but one of them saluting with the LEFT hand. Questions: 1. Is this a radiant ascending or a Truthless getting an Honorblade? 2. Are these ardents bowing, or Stone Shamans granting the sword. 3. What is the lefthanded salute about and why is one only holding two hands together? Any good ideas?

What did Szeth see that caused him to raise the alarm? This quote seems to say that it was more related to the Voidbringers than surgebinding. I really don't think he had any surgebinding before the honorblade.

Szeth must have an honor spren because he doesn't get his powers from the honorblade. Here is why it makes sense; Szeth is labeled Truthless because he had his powers when his people thought that either the final battle was already won and over, or that it wasn't time for the next desecration. He simply wasn't supposed to have those powers but he did. So the definition of Truthless is being an anomaly and having Radiant powers when it shouldn't exist in the world. Now after meeting Kal and concluding that KR powers were returning to the world Szeth fled back to his master Taravangian because he was beginning to think maybe he himself wasn't really Truthless. Taravangian then told Szeth that Kaladin was using an Honorblade and that the KR powers weren't really returning to the world, Szeth was still an anomaly and therefore still Truthless. Now knowing that Szeth knows what an honorblade is and what it bestows upon its weilder, we can conclude that he wasn't slipped the honorblade and tricked into thinking himself Truthless. He saw Kal was more or less a KR and realized he wasn't alone, so not Truthless. This all means that Szeth wouldn't be Truthless if he had gotten his powers from an honorblade. He was Truthless because he popped up with powers out of no where thanks to an honor spren as if the next desolation was coming around the corner --------------- Some facts: 1.Weird rock used to control Szeth is very important. They are said not to sell themselves to slavery often. Perhaps this is a very unusual ritual, seems like most people don't know what to think of that rock until Szeth explains himself. This would mean a whole lot more if it contained his honor spren in one form or another. 2.Szeth is very honorable. He follows what he believes is right and doesn't bend at all. When he is proved wrong by Kal at the very end he accepted punishment unto himself without any further hesitation. It would make sense that he could have attracted an honorspren himself. Some probably-reasonable ideas: Pretending Szeth did have an Honor Spren when he was younger, I don't know and doubt if Szeth ever got so far as to give his second oath which could have been likely broken and lead to his spren dieing, but I have had a strong feeling there is more to Szeth's rock than Sanderson has been telling us. I think his spren was somehow captured and stored in that rock. After Kal kills Szeth and catches his falling sword, Syl says that she "thinks" Szeth's weapon is an honorblade. Though it would be natural to use the word "think" in English in her position as her memories return to her and what not but I doubt this is a coincidence and I doubt it was a mistake on Sanderson's part. It would be the perfect hint to slip most people's minds. Szeth has to have some kind of KR ability. That helmet that Kaladin put on his fist in his 3v4 bout sucked the stormlight out of him. The armor can't take stormlight out of gems around the room because it needs to be directly hooked to source; you have to hold gems up to the plate's innards to get anything to happen. Chances are when Szeth uses Nightblood he is going to have to have stormlight within himself since having infused gems on his belt won't be good enough to fuel his newfound sword unless he uses a bag of gems for a sheath lol. Last and not least, Szeth's whole combat presence was based around his ability to surgebind and such with extreme skill. I don't think he would be very effective or interesting if he was to lose his whole skill set that made him who he was. Being unable to heal himself as he collects minor wounds would make him feel like a martyr as he would be widdled to death from minor scrapes in the story. It would be awful.

Alright, I still don't have the book with me, but being the spoiler-loving skaa that I am, I now know a lot of the new reveals and I'd like to share some of my thoughts. I'll probably add more stuff here later when I finally get to read the whole book.

Maybe this has been covered before, and if so feel free to share the link. On my most resent reread of TWoKs I noticed this passage. Prologue : "To Kill" pg 24. The "he" referred to in the passage is Szeth. He is comparing how his body holds stormlight with Voidbringers ability. Bold text added by me. That is an interesting dichotomy. It could be read as though he is being punished by his people and religion for not letting go of a belief in the existence of the Voidbringers. Reguardless, his punishment demands that they do not exist. All right, so then what will happen when Szeth learns for certain that they do exist? Will he let go of his punishment because it is wrong? If he learns the truth before finishing his mission, maybe he won't kill Dalinar then?

This is my first post, so I'm going to have to ask you to stick with me here. Honor, aka the Almighty, as we all know, is dead, splintered by Odium. My first thought was 'Oh, then the Spren must be his splinters.' WRONG. The spren have been around during the time of the Almighty, as shown by one point in the book (possibly a Words of Radiance spoiler) This says that Surgebinders existed during the time the Almighty was alive, and thus so did the spren (Nahel Bond). However, that does not mean the Spren are not -of- the Allmighty. I believe that all spren are a form of the Almighty's investiture in the world, as they seem to have all -bonded- with specific emotions/elements/abilities. WoR spoiler Now, second part of this theory. If the spren are all from Honor, what does that leave Cultivation? Well, that leaves him with Shinovar. Think about it. Unlike what Ruin and Preservation did, fighting for power, Honor and Cultivation decided to split up the land, they made a deal of sorts. Honor would get the land and shape it any way he wanted so long as it didn't mess with Cultivation's area. Thus the mountains around Shinovar so that Cultivation's land wasn't effected by the Highstorms. This would explain many things. First of all, it explains the lack of spren in Shinovar, since Honor has no sway there. Second, it would explain why the Shinese revere farmers and hate warriors, since warriors have to do with Honor, and farming has to do with Cultivation. Thirdly, it might explain the Shinese reverence of rock. The mountains that separate Shinovar from the rest of Roshar could be a holy symbol of their god's protection. Small side theory, I think Cultivation might actually be a man, since at the end of WoK, when Taravangian is talking to Szeth, he says, "Sometimes I wonder if the Lifebrother himself sent you to me." I know the Lifebrother is a nickname for one of the Heralds, and the Herald might have been an Edgedancer, which would explain Lifebrother, you know, growing plants and healing people could have to do with Life, but that is just a side theory. (thanks for the comments. I believe the Lifebrother might still be a Herald, though not Cultivation, and I do feel slightly stupid for posting this part.) WoR spoiler WoR spoiler Szeth's people, under the command of Cultivation, who I believe not only is still alive, but occasionally communicates with his/her people, gave Szeth a Shardblade as mentioned in the before quoted conversation with Taravangian. Not only does this mean Kaladin has the potential to be an immensely more powerful Windrunner but also gives an implication that the Nightwatcher is Cultivation. I say this because perhaps Szeth wished for the powers of a Radiant, and so got Windrunner powers, but in return for the great cost of being eternally enslaved, doomed to kill, and yet seemingly absolved of all sins he is forced to commit, for this is the price their god made him commit. Any thoughts?

I believe I may have brought this up at some point long long ago, but here is my theory: No one knows the process of making a Shardblade, but we know that Syl hates them. I believe that Shardblades are Spren that have been trapped into a Shardblade (I believe by choice). I believe that the KR final stage to become a full KR involved them no longer needing the guidance of their Spren, so their Spren became Shardblades to assist them, making them a full KR. The reason Syl hates Shardblades so much is because they are Spren trapped in a shard that is held by someone who hasn't earned it. I believe something happened with Szeth that made his Spren get trapped in his blade, which is what made him become Truthless. This is just a theory, but I feel a lot of the underlying evidence is there to make it at least somewhat plausable. The biggest flaw in this for me is Shallan's Shardblade (how she got this is 'technically' still unknown). I did some cursory research to see if this was out there, and I may be missing some answers from Q&A's or Readings that debunk this. Let me know! P.S. If we know how Shardblades are made and I just missed it somewhere, please let me know.