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I've had this theory bouncing around in my mind for a while and I want to see other's thoughts on it. To start with, I want to say that this is mostly unfounded. I think there's only really one piece of textually evidence, and it's not particularly strong. So I'm not particularly attached to it. Anyway, the gist of the theory is that Tien isn't dead. My explanation of this has a few different pieces. Firstly, Kaladin and Tien were both invested at the time, Tien more so. We have no idea how far along Tien was as a radiant, but he could have been pretty decently far and no one would have known. Kaladin was most likely first ideal at the time, as we know Syl was around, and Syl was able to travel to the physical realm because of her and Kaladin's connection. Secondly, Kaladin and Tien were already heavily connected. This is true for a few obvious reasons, such as them being close brothers. They loved each other deeply, and their connection mattered significantly to each of them. Thirdly, both had a deep desire to protect the other. Kaladin is the more obvious of the pair, seeing as his desire to protect Tien is a major plot point. However I think Tien's desire to protect Kaladin was just as strong, in a different way. Tien obviously wasn't going to be able to physically protect Kal, he wanted to protect Kal in mind and soul. We are told that Tien worked hard to cheer Kal up, and he was extremely important for Kal during the weeping. I think that Tien knew that Kal had depression, and he chose to help him as much as he could. Putting it all together, here's what I think happened. Tien is killed on the battlefield. Being highly invested, he would have stuck around a significant amount in the cognitive realm. But unlike most people, I don't think Tien would be able to accept his death. I think his strong will to protect his brother would keep him from the beyond, as we know is possible (If you don't know that, read Mistborn: A Secret History). I think that as a cognitive shadow, he could have been able to latch onto his connection with Kal, causing him to Nahel bond. However, because of his lack of a solid connection to any realm, I think the Nahel bond may only have been enough to keep him in the cognitive realm. So his ability to communicate with Kaladin would be extremely difficult. The piece of textual evidence I have is Tien's appearance in RoW. I think that was actually Tien, and not a copy created by Dalinar from Kaladin's memory. I want to go over some of the biggest problems with this theory. The first is the thematic implications. Tien's death is extremely important for Kaladin's story and his growth. Having Tien turn out to not have died would be a pretty big reversal of that, and could cheapen the character growth. I don't have a defense here, it's just true. 2: Kaladin has been to the cognitive realm. He has physically interacted with Syl, someone definitely Nahel bonded to him. If my theory is true, Tien should have been there. My defense here would be that Tien has somewhat accepted his current role, and knows that Kaladin needs to grow in ways that Tien cannot help with. This defense feels very loose, so it's most certainly a significant hole. 3: Why doesn't Syl know? Shouldn't she be able to see that Kal is bonded to Tien, or at least that Tien is hanging out in the cognitive realm? My defense is that we don't know if Syl would be able to know, and if Syl would even tell Kal if that was the case. She might assume that he knows, or think it better to not bring up. I think there are a couple different options, but nothing is very solid. I think Occam's Razor here says that Tien is dead, and I'm wrong. That's certainly true, and I'm not holding my breath. I want it to be true, but I think there are plenty of interesting stories to be told with Tien's death, so I would in no way be disappointed. Anyway, what are your thoughts? Can you think of better defenses, and/or more issues? Maybe there's a WoB out there that says "oh yeah tien is 100% dead" in which case whoopsies. But this is something I have put a decent amount of thought into, so hearing thoughts of all kinds would be nice.

When Dalinar speaks to Kaladin as Tien, right before the 4th Ideal, it reminded me of his “I am Unity” scene in OB. His message to Kaladin is being there in the moment for others, not just thinking about the end goal. It’s a reiteration of the First Ideal, journey before destination. Dalinar likes to focus on that one, similar to OB, where he says it can’t be a journey if it doesn’t have a beginning.

As I was reading Rhythm of War, Kaladin's vision of Tien caught my eye and one particular phrase raised a huge question for me. When Tien says (paraphrasing here, will add actual quote later today) "look at them Kal. Look at their colors" in reference to his Connections to others, it almost seems like a huge hint as to the significance of color in the Cosmere. And because Kaladin later found the wooden horse that was handed to him in the vision, it seems that it was a genuine Connection he had with Tien from the Beyond. Does anyone else get the feeling that this is vastly important? Or that it might be worth getting a WoB on? Also, side note to make this post super long, we have a WoB confirming that color is important in the Mistborn series and we know that Honors color is blue and Honor is the force of cohesion, that which binds and Connects things to each other. I'm assuming this is why the lines that show allomancers sources of metal, or their Connection to them, are blue. The only other reference to color in Mistborn that I know of is that Ruin is black and Preservation is white. Is it possible that Ruin was directly involved in the creation of nightblood which is why nightblood turned black upon its creation? It's command is "destroy evil" and destruction is exactly ruin

Hey everyone! Here’s my latest Cosmere piece! Contains spoilers for SA 1-4. Stick around after the credits below to get the backstory on this song. Lead vocals, piano, acoustic guitar, drums, bass, trombone choir, strings, male choir: Joe Byerly Syl's vocals, female choir: Sharon Byerly Mixing, mastering, electric guitars, percussion and choir VST's: Infamoti - https://bit.ly/infamoti Artwork: Pam Hage - Queen of Eagles https://www.pamhage.com/ Download links: WAV: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Zh1kI7D7fJKCmyVipE6h1urJ_1l93Eim/view?usp=sharing MP3: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xQidEmb0VikAGtWotlBiUyJzNwGvbCKI/view?usp=sharing _____________ To be honest, when I first read The Way of Kings in 2013, I loved but didn't understand Kaladin. He seemed... beyond me, somehow. As his backstory unfolded, I realized how little we had in common at that time in my life; I settled into a good place where I really enjoyed watching him grow and change, accepting that I could invest myself in a character's story without having to fully understand his experiences. In the summer of 2019, my wife became pregnant for the first time in our marriage. We had been married 7 years, 6 of which had been spent trying to grow our family. Weeks later, that child died in the womb from unknown causes. I suddenly understood a little of Kaladin's pain; I was unable to protect my unborn child. We struggled for a year, wrestling with ourselves and God, days blurring into weeks, then months, as we sank into depression. We were surrounded by people who loved, held and heard us, but it took a long time to even begin to move forward from the silence, the grief and the loss. As we slowly crept out into the light again, we chose to trust that continuing the journey as unashamedly broken people was better than pulling the covers over our heads for the rest of our lives. We went to counseling, examined our faith on deeper levels, and spent lots of time with friends and family, sharing what had happened to us and soaking up the encouragement and love of others. In the fall of 2020, months before the birth of our daughter Jane, the chorus of Windrunner began to take shape. I wrote this song to help me move forward in my journey; I hope it helps others as much as it helped me.

Did anyone else, in the haze of brutal emotion that was chapter 108, feel an extra emotion because of the fact that Tien, like Maya, chose his fate, and the obvious parallels between those scenes/the implications behind them? The belief, all those years, that the Radiants murdered their helpless spren as unwilling casualties of the Recreance. Kal's belief that Tien was sacrificed, without his knowledge or consent, along with the other messenger boys, to buy some time for the trained soldiers. The revelation that, in both cases, the innocent victims chose their fates for their own beliefs, and made the choice to do what they felt was right. Perhaps neither was fully aware of what the consequences might be, but they went to them willingly. Obviously the spren's choice, and the fact that Adolin, via the power of goodness, is slowly reviving Maya, have huge overarching implications for the entire series, and put everything into a different context. However, in terms of the parallels here between that scene, and Tien's death, and what the implications are for Kal, I think it revolves around the idea of "you cannot have my sacrifice". Kaladin is an incredible character, don't get me wrong. He's a hero. He's saved so many lives, and tried to save so many more. He's Kaladin storming Stormblessed, he can't be anything other than fabulous. But he also has a big flaw, and a big habit of removing agency from the people that he feels he's failed in the past. He wants to protect. He wants to protect so badly. And he fears failure so much, that sometimes he can erase the choices of those he tries to protect. Sometimes it feels that Kaladin is a storm, and all the people he's tried to protect, Tien, various groups of slaves, his squad in Amaram's army bridge four, Elhokar, etc, are just debris picked up and carried and then dropped by him, that they have no will or agency of their own. But they all chose. Elhokar chose to go to Kholinar to try and save his city, and his family. His squad chose to follow him into battle, and to support his assault of a shardbearer. Bridge Four chose to take up spears against the parshendi at the end of TWOK and help Dalinar. They chose to become bodyguards to Dalinar and the Kholins. They chose to become squires, and then Radiants. They chose to protect, and to put themselves in harm's way to do so. The slaves Kaladin led on an escape attempt chose to go. They chose to be brave and attempt to escape their chains, rather than living within them. And Tien. Tien chose to go with the other messenger boys. He chose to stand at the front of that group of soldiers. He chose to give them light, and hope, in their final moments. He made that sacrifice willingly, so that the others would be less afraid as they died. Like the spren of the Recreance, he chose, and history, and Kaladin, have erased that sacrifice and made it their own. Kaladin's fourth ideal was "I accept that there will be those I cannot protect", which was obviously a HUGE step for him, as he obviously viewed this, based on the end of Oathbringer, as letting go of the people he lost. But I think it's also about accepting that sometimes he cannot protect people because they are not his. They are their own people, with their own ideals, beliefs, and courage. Sometimes you cannot protect someone because they make the choice to not be protected. They make the choice to put themselves in harm's way, as Kaladin does time and again, to protect, or give hope, or chase their own dreams. Their choice is their own. Their sacrifice is their own. And Kaladin will have to learn that the people he saves may want to do something with the lives he protected. Even if that's to give them away for a greater good. That's their sacrifice. And their choice. And Kaladin cannot have it to fuel his guilt and fears.

Hey yall I took a bunch of the artwork of much more talented people and some music from another of those people and put it together to try to tell Kaladin’s story from the first 2 books of the Stormlight archive. Hope you like it!

Just like the topic says. Do we have a definitive timeline on when the modern radiants first started forming nahel bonds? I think Shallan is first but I can't find any clear information about Szeth. Jasnah's bond formed around the time of the assassination of Gavilar. Tien probably a few months before he was conscripted, Kaladin probably a few months after? Lift probably bonded Wyndle around this time, but Wyndle says the Cultivationspren decided to bond people after the other spren started doing it. I haven't found anything definitive on Coppermind or in the WOBs.

Hello, I've been working on this piece for a while and wanted to post it here. The song is called "Tien", and is based off the character from the Stormlight Archive series. EDIT: Thanks for the help, @Ookla the Paragon with the link EDIT: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1pb8wPIcSqxYjip3D8erQ5IIAvhbH4IQ0 or watch on YouTube at https://youtu.be/lrvtjZcOtYE I hope you like it. Edit: Youtube Video --> https://youtu.be/cyT7EZRkvxc (Wow, so many edits...)

So I’ve been bouncing this idea around for a while, and finally decided to type it up. So we know that Pattern bonded Shallan when she was younger, to the point that she could summon her shardblade (to kill her mum). After this she regresses somehow, possibly due to her self-forgetting stuff. Another example we know much less about is Tien, Kaladin’s younger brother. We don’t know a lot about what he did in Amaram’s army, but it is implied that he had reached a point in his Ideals that caught the attention of the Skybreakers enough that Nale felt he needed to be eliminated. I personally think he was at the first Ideal, but have little proof to back that up. So: what are the common threads in these two young lives? My theory: not their own lies, but the lies of those around them. We know that (Pattern at least) Cryptics are very curious about humans. Lyrin was hiding the gem theft, and we know that this caused a lot of strife in Hearthstone. Shallan’s mother was involved somehow with the Skybreakers before her death, and Lin was dealing with political issues (or was that just after Shallan’s mum died?) as well as dealing with debts. Also maybe the Ghostbloods. We know that Pattern is interested in the lies of people besides Shallan. Shallan and Tien are both “the light” of their respective households. The Lightweavers have been described as the “spiritual sustainers” of the Radiants. They are both artistic, and very curious about the world around them. If Cryptics are the spren of natural forces and the laws of nature, the interests of the spren and the knight would align in this. A few other parallels I don’t think are relevant: Shallan and Tien each have depressed older brothers. They are both interested in the creatures around them. They like gentle rains. Please point out anything that I’ve missed!

Does anyone know about where in Tien’s timeline Pattern started bonding with Shallan? I’m trying to figure out if Tien’s potential Cryptic came through to the Physical Realm after Pattern or before.

Ok.ok. Hear me out. Both Jasnah and Renarin had childhood illnesses. Relatives aka Gavilar and Dalinar probably also exposed. Kaladin and Tien lived basically in a germ factory (surgeon's house). The only cluster that needs any explaining is the Shallan, Helleran cluster. Gotta search for references of Shallan being sick. Anybody know offhand? Lift's background is both special and specially clouded so literally nothing to say there. Both the cobbler and the orphanage lady had a lot of exposure to kids and their germs. I'd say it's some kind of illness kids are unusually susceptible to but people don't usually get as adults because the kids get it doing some kid behavior adults don't do. Probably not airborn.

I know this has been discussed before, but I'm having trouble finding the exact thread/s. So if you happen to know them, feel free to send me there! I just wanted to say that it sure seems like Tien was a future Lightweaver in process. There's lots of things to point us to that, I know, but this is my favorite one that I haven't seen brought up (but it may have been): "'See,' Tien said from behind, "from this side it's green. I don't think it's a spren, Mother. It's the light. It makes the rock change....." Doesn't that sound like a future Lightweaver point of view, y'all? Or of course this could have just been an overarching Stormlight Archive theme getting brought up. Honor was He Who Transforms after all. I know I'm reaching on this one. Either way, I really love this line.

Here is my first musical composition for the Stormlight Archive. This is what I imagined for Tien's theme, which would (theoretically) be used for Kaladin's memories throughout The Way of Kings. The first melody you hear (A section) is for Tien - it's meant to be song-like and sad. The B section has some major chords and is more or less Kaladin's hero theme. It brings a sense of determination and resolve to the overall "Tien theme" which seems appropriate for Kaladin. My goal was to create a theme for both characters that brings together the emotion of their story. This is all on piano - although feel free to imagine a full orchestra! :-D WhenIf I figure out a program to make that happen, it will definitely be on my list of things to do! (Please excuse the "lameness" of the video. I only have Windows Live Movie Maker and for anyone who is familiar with it: you know my pain. For those of you who don't: it stinks. But, hey, I'm a musician not a film maker :-P) Enjoy!

Please note that this thread contains both WoR and tWoK spoilers. You have been warned. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- While rereading tWoK, I noticed something interesting on page 777, the page where Kaladin and Tien enlisted to the army. Let me quickly quote it for you: Seeing as in WoR kaladin mentioned that he must return to Hearthstone to warn them of the impending doom, he will surprise his parents by the fact that he is still alive - but what of tien? He swore on the stormfather and the almighty himself, surely as a man of honour, this promise will haunt him in some way or another. In addition, the way it repeats itself in the last line and italicizes it causes me to think that it will have some importance in the next book, most likely with his honor-relying relationship with Syl. Just some Laral related speculations about the Bride prayer and the silversmiths What are your thoughts of these two speculations?

Have Lirin and Hesina even tried to contact Kaladin after he joined the military? In his own PoV, I think it's implied that neither have for some time, perhaps never in his entire military career, but in his earliest flashbacks, it is obvious that they both loved him very much. In fact, before Kaladin and Tien were recruited, his mother basically told him that he didn't have to follow his father's path and choose another career if that's what made him happy. Sure, Kaladin may have disobeyed his father's wishes and disrupted his plans, but he is still as much their son as Tien is. No parent ever wants to see their kids die before them, not when your last conversation ended with bitter and angry words. So whatever the reason for their silence, Tien's death should be more than the incentive they needed to contact him, even if it's just to mourn his death together through letters. Unless they got real busy and popped out another one in the past five or six years, he is their last son. Plenty of men have joined the army and survived. He's also done very well for himself before the Amaram incident, youngest squadleader and all. There's no reason for them to completely ignore him as they did... ...Unless Tien's and Kaladin's recruitment into the military was not Roshone's final stroke. As weak as Roshone is, he is still a brightlord, a cousin to a Shardbearer. What little power he has, he can still use to inflict a lot of damage if he wanted to do so. And the loss of his only son could be the last push he needed to dish out the hurt. Kaladin have suffered so much, and it chills my bones just to think of it, but could something have happened to his parents that prevented them from something as simple as responding to their son's letters? And if so, what does this mean for Kaladin as a character? A part of me thinks that they're both alive and well, that Amaram decided to take it upon himself to protect/provide for them after the way he stabbed their son in the back, but this whole situation at Hearthstone stinks if you ask me.