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Nergaoul is red according to the coppermind https://coppermind.net/wiki/Nergaoul While every other unmade that we have seen, either in the physical realm or the cognitive has been black. Ashertmarn - black - https://coppermind.net/wiki/Ashertmarn Re-Shephir - black - https://coppermind.net/wiki/Re-Shephir Sja-Anat - black - https://coppermind.net/wiki/Sja-anat But Yelig-nar is different while all of his form is black in shadesmar, when he enters a host in the physical realm the eyes of the host turn red. Note: While we haven't seen Dia-Gonarthis, he is sometimes called the black fisher. But red investiture in the Cosmere is corupted investiture. But a lot of Odiums forces are red. I would like to thank for pointing this pattern among voidspren and Fused alike as well. Some of his spren are golden but the others are red, Ulim, stormspren, and Fused eyes. In Oathbringer there is even a quote where Pattern is translatting an Ashspren for the hero's and says, "There are many varieties, she says. Some of golden light, others are red shadows. Curious yes." In all all lot of Odium's own forces are red which means they are corrupted, then some spren are golden, and then finally most of his Unmade are black, but Odium's own investiture is golden and violet not black (as black is ruins color) so what is happening. And why are all but a few of his forces wrong.

I just posted this to my Youtube channel, but I figured I'd type this up fully here, maybe additionally clarify some of the points TL;DR at the bottom The central question of this theory: Where did the Thrill originally come from, was it truly of Odium in the very beginning? My theory is that Nergaoul was actually a splinter of Ambition to start with and Odium Unmade the Thrill into what it is today on Roshar. The Thrill is characterized as a red mist, so The Threnody system So we know that Odium mortally sliced and diced Ambition while in the Threnody system (and also Mercy was there doing who knows what). Chunks of Ambition rained down, and something arose from the ashes: The Evil. The Evil was described by Nazh as "a creeping darkness, a terrible force that consumed the entirety of the continent, feasting upon the souls of men." Khriss also states that she does "not know how much of this is metaphoric, and how much literal." I think this was mostly metaphorical. Being a Splinter of Ambition, I think the Evil entered the hearts of men and inflamed their ambitious desires to the utmost, similarly to what the Thrill does with battle rage or Ashtermarn with gluttony. This "devoured their souls" by inciting them to pursue their greatest ambitions to the loss of all else. Thus, the continent was consumed by madness and those strangely unaffected fled to the smaller, shade-filled continent. Then, I think Odium came back. He had just dispatched Ambition and was inspecting the scene of the crime just to double check there aren't any powerful splinters that could rise up and gather up Ambition's power again. And on Threnody, he finds a new toy. Odium corrupts the Thrill, through the process of Unmaking and this fundamentally changes the nature of the Thrill into something similar, but different. Now, the main objection that I see to this theory: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/100/#e1672 How does this fit with the theory? Well, primarily, I think this could tell us about the nature of Unmaking. This form of corruption has to fundamentally change the nature of the Splinter such that it is either A: a Splinter of both Shards, or B: A Splinter completely of Odium through a process of substitution, where Odium's investiture replaces Ambition's, but still retaining the vague shape of what the thing is. I think the first is the most likely, but I have been unable to find if this question has been asked before about the nature of Unmaking. TL;DR The Thrill was originally a splinter of Ambition called the Evil, Odium saw a new toy, Unmade it into a Splinter of Odium, and then tossed it onto Roshar for it to go buck wild.

Am re-reading Oathbringer and can't help but want a Total war game based off the Kholin conquest of Alethkar. They'd need to add new mechanics for the regeneration of shardplate, and for equipment and customization for more than just the army's general so you could have multiple shards in a single army (and ideally make the unit pathing less stupid but let's be honest that's just how Total War works). Extreme High Storm attrition would make places other than cities important to hold, and of course, capturing enemy shards and enhancing your own shardbearers would be a central mechanic. The Thrill would prevent armies from breaking when they fight near it and it would move to battles with high casualties, berserking units that are winning. Potential problems: The Blackthorn in full shards at max rank and accompanied by the Thrill could singlehandedly destroy the standard 2000 men most total war games allow armies to max out at. solution? smaller maps, but larger max army sizes with a 'reserve' mechanic that allows troops to be held back off the map until sent in. It would also be the first total war game to have a reasonable explanation for why your armies don't need supply lines because of soulcasters

Apologies if it has been discussed or I've forgotten something. What would happen to a sapient spren if it was captured in a gem? We've obviously seen lower spren be captured and we've seen Unmade like the Thrill and Ba-Ado-Mishram (kinda seen) be captured, but what about the in-between? Could you manifest some effect from a fabrial made with a Sapient spren? What would happen if the gem was broken and the spren escaped (would the spren experience a loss of function, cognition, etc.). (I think this has been somewhat discussed in some Shardcasts about Ba-Ado-Mishram.) Does this affect bonds (thinking Nahel) in strange ways?

Trigger Warning : If you are triggered while discussing addiction, please do not read the below. Okay, I mentioned this in another thread, but if I'm going to be part of this community, this is absolutely the part of the books I feel the most impact from. Dalinar's addiction to the Thrill hit at home for me. As I mentioned in my other post, I feel something I could call, "The Confidence" while drinking alcohol. Especially when I was in my early and mid 20's, this wasn't much of an issue. I could get the confidence, be drunk, but never go too far. But eventually, like all addictions, I needed it more, and more, and more, and more. There are so many scenes that for me that were hard to read especially in Oathbringer. However, how Dalinar defeats the Thrill, and what he says (calling it old friend, thanking it) has actually inspired me. I feel that I have a better handle of my addiction after reading his parts. It was so nice to read someone experiencing the hardships I had faced, and also that his addiction was to more of an emotion than the substance itself (as it was for me, it's not like I love alcohol or even that I get withdrawal symptoms, it's that I love, love that feeling of confidence), and then it was nice how he said goodbye to the thrill. For me, the confidence led to many successes (I met practically everyone I ever dated while under its effects, including my amazing partner) and I met many friends with it as well. I felt like a king, like I controlled the room while under its influence. However, eventually much like Dalinar experienced post-war (in my case I was in long term relationships and was working on deeper non-drinking friendships, haha, I guess you could see it as the equivalent of no more war lolololol) it became a detriment. I began to black out, I began not know when to stop, and even when I set limits, I would end up going beyond those limits once I was in "the confidence" because I didn't want it to leave. Eventually this damaged friendships, and my final relationship before I met my partner (don't worry, I never physically hurt anyone, I'm a very non-violent person...emotional hurt, emotional hurt). After meeting my partner, I knew I needed a change, I realized finally I was addicted to it. However, I even at this time could never quite get what I was addicted to, I thought it was just alcohol, so I was stricter about how often I could go drinking, and how many drinks I could have while drinking. This helped immensely. My partner in our 7 years of a relationship, has only seen me "trashed" twice, and once nothing bad happened, I was just...messy. After the second time, where we had a fight and I yelled at her, ....I even more knew that I had to change. I couldn't lose another relationship because of this addiction. The whole point of "the confidence" was to gain relationships, not lose them. This, which happened around 2 years ago, is when I finally realized what I was actually addicted to. I realized it was that feeling, and not alcohol itself. This led to better ways of controlling my addiction. Even before reading the book, I had figured out that I couldn't follow that feeling, and surprisingly just the knowledge, "Hey, it's the feeling you like" was enough that I stopped drinking as much. I did continue my lose drink maximum, but I ..basically never reach it anymore. I also spend time with people who understand I have this addiction, and will watch me, but...again, I've never needed it. The confidence does still come, although never like before. And that is okay. It served me and helped me, but now I don't need it. Anways, Dalinar's story helped me summarize it even better, and has helped me even more to understand my addiction and what sets it off. Avoiding triggers, understanding I don't need it anymore, all of this is important. My point of making this topic was to let people know you can move past your addiction. You can find ways to control it, and to manage it, and I think that Dalinar's storyline is one that not only helped me, but..actually I wish I had read earlier, back when I didn't understand my addiction as well. I was wondering if anyone was helped by these books looks into mental health care. I know my friend who actually recommended the books related to Kaladin a ton, and his depression; and so his entire reason for recommending the books were very similar to me...so I am guessing there most be others like us out there. Anyways, share your stories, or don't. I pretty much revealed myself here lol. I hope others read these books and enjoy them like I do though^^.

[ Spoilers from the first 30 chapters of Oathbringer currently released ] So with the "final Desolation" pretty much officially underway as of the end of WoR, the main question going through my mind has been: how the hell can Odium actually lose??? Think about it. We know from Dalinar's visions and various other lore elements that in the past each Desolation nearly wiped out humankind. In fact, the justification for the current level of technology (or lack thereof) is that civilization is basically pushed back to the bronze age with each Desolation because of how devestating they are. And now consider this: that was with the full, organized strength of the Knights Radiant. Literal armies of them. Plus the Heralds! Now we have the Final Desolation coming, and so far there's only a handful of fledgling Knights Radiant, none of whom even have their Shardplate yet. Not only that, but the existing nations are super divided, and at the start of Oathbringer it looks as though it will not be easy to unite even a small number of them. So how can Odium screw this up? How could this be even a close fight? It seems to me that the only possibility is that the Listeners (at least some of them) are going to fight with humans. This is being set-up already at the beginning of Oathbringer, where we see groups of former parshmen slaves, healed by the Everstorm, basically just on the run. Not trying to attack, not out to kill humans in vengeance even (though they have real cause to want revenge). Just trying to survive, and most importantly not yet infused with any type of Voidspren (at least not in any obvious way). We also know that the Listeners way back made a choice to cut themselves off from their gods (Odium and co), restricting their forms drastically but earning freedom. They assassinated Gavilar in an effort to stop their "gods" from returning. They don't want to be Voidbringers, and I can totally see at least some of them fighting to maintain their freedom, refusing to be used by Odium. This could be what is "different" about this Desolation, the edge that humanity needs to balance the scales just enough to have a hope of winning. It would also fit with the themes established throughout the Cosmere books (spoilers for Mistborn series coming). We know from The Hero of Ages that the Deepness was in fact the mists. But more than that, it was Preservation's power tainted by Ruin. Ruin caused the Snapping process to be more brutal than it needed, killing people instead of just awakening their powers, covering the land and blocking out the Sun when it wasn't meant to, etc... This was Preservation's actual power, but Ruin managed to influence it. This shows that the influence of the Shards is not always rigid and distinct. There is overlap and intermingling, where multiple Shards use the same basic phenomenon. That is what the Thrill has to be. Dalinar's first revealed vision, where he fights Midnight Essence, with a poker. The Knight explains that any who feel the desire to fight should be compelled to go to Aletha. The Thrill USED TO BE a force for good, a way of telling people that they were destined to fight evil alongside the Knights (either as a full member or as a "squire." Since then, it has been twisted by Odium into something that makes people lust for battle and death. And without actual monsters around, they turn on each other, or make a game out of war, or almost kill their own brother. Odium is doing the same thing that Ruin did. But maybe it can go both ways. I've seen others here comment that it is odd that the Everstorm seems to heal the parshmen, making them whole again by reforging their Connection (incidentally, because of how we know this works from the second Mistborn series, this explains why they all speak unaccented Alethi). This seems like a very un-Odium thing for the Everstorm to do, especially since they do not seem to be possessed by Voidspren yet. What if Cultivation pulled the same kind of trick? Twisting the Everstorm just enough that it healed parshmen without automatically dominating them, giving them at least a chance to resist, run, be free, what have you? We know from the Jasnath-Hoid dialogue that the Everstorm is "new" or at least working differently than how the Desolations worked in the past. Perhaps the reason is that this time there are forces other than Odium at work on it. There are even hints about this in the depiction of the Midnight Mother. During Shallan's interactions, it is revealed that she was created to sow chaos, but that over time she became curious. Yes, it is a twisted, warped curiosity. But consider her actions at Urithiru. Did she flood the tower with monsters? Did she set about assassinating actual targets? No, she just copied what humans were already doing. Does this seem particularly effective? Or does it seem like a lost, broken creature trying to comprehend these creatures through the only relationship she understands: violence? My point is just this: she has actually changed since her creation. Just like the Everstorm is different this time. Just like maybe the Listeners aren't behaving the way Odium might want this time around. A big theme so far is how the good guys, left to their own devices, become corrupt and fell. But I think Brandon is hinting that maybe, just maybe, the reverse is true for the villains. Odium is banking on how time changes humans, makes them forget why they fought and abandon what they once were. But wouldn't it be poetic if the same was also happening to his forces? The Unmade have changed, however slightly. The Listeners seem to have changed as well. And maybe this time around they will surprise him, make him think that he could actually lose...