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This is my Public Service Announcement- Taln is now my adopted character. He's the most honorable person on Roshar. Storms, he was still gracious to Ash. So if you have beef with Taln, you'll be going through the Steeldancer first. *cracks knuckles* on a slightly related topic, who else thinks it's dope that Naln bonded a Highspren? That's pretty cool. What is his surge binding efficiency like?

Hi guys! So we are a doing a words of radiance reread and I came across this. In interlude 7 of words of radiance, Dalinar and Eholkar visit Taln ( or the man who calls himself Taln) and they can't understand most of what he says because according to Dalinar he is speaking in a very think northern rural alethi accent. In chapter 63 of words of radiance, Shallan visits Taln and she is able to clearly understand whatever he says. Infact she even comments that the person was speaking in perfect alethi. Are there any theories or WoB on this? I know people discuss his blade more often, but I have not come across this any where.

What follows is my current theory on how the 10 Heralds became the 10 fool's through the coarse of the Desolations. I will update this post as it evolves. I will try to provide links to all WOB. Quotes will come from the kindle versions of the books via cut and paste. I will list book, chapter, and location number. Bold will be my emphasis. Italics will be possible contradictory evidence. Number 18 here From Reddit Fantasy Bookclub Q&A with Brandon Sanderson Feb 28th, 2011 We will start with this quote which shows us all Heralds were in WOK. First, the Desolations occurred when the Heralds were sent back to Roshar after one of them broke under the torture of Odium. Second, each Herald is associated with a primary and secondary Divine Attribute. (Possibly primary from Honor, Secondary from Cultivation?) Third, the torture does not happen in the physical realm. It occurs in either the cognitive, or more likely the spiritual realm. Fourth, when Odium breaks a Herald, he is literally breaking part of that Heralds spiritual connection to the Divine Attribute. Fifth, Odium's goal was to break all the Heralds and bring about the the Everstorm, allowing him to shatter Honor and Cultivation. Sixth, breaking the Divine Attributes shifted them towards something more compatible with Odium and less compatible with Honor. This resulted in the attributes associated with the 10 Fool's. Number 19 in this WOB, says each is uniquely insane. NOTE: One of the biggliest issues with this theory is not knowing the 10 Fools attributes. Two Fools are named. Two have attributes. Cabine - He acts like a child although he is an adult. TWOK chapter 37, page 593, location 10668 Eshu - He speaks of things he does not understand in front of those who do. WOR chapter 71, page 593, location 16877 One issue I have here is that the 2 Heralds I would link these two too are both female. Paliah and Battar. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1) We have a WOB on this. Not a confirmation, but along those lines. 2) Herald. Primary Divine Attribute. Secondary Divine Attribute. Jezrien. Protecting. Leading Nale. Just. Confident Chanarach. Brave. Obedient Vedel. Loving. Healing Paliah. Learned. Giving Shalash. Creative. Honest Battar. Wise. Careful Kalak. Resolute. Builder Talenel. Dependable. Resourceful Ishar. Pious. Guiding 3) Since Odium was attempting to break the Heralds focus on their Divine Attribute, the torture most likely took place in the spiritual realm. The spren would probably know something if it took place in the cognitive realm. One thing pointing to the cognitive realm though is the fact that Taln appeared covered in condensation much like a shardblade. 4) By breaking the Herald, Odium shifted their Primary attribute to closer align with his shard and align less with Honors. This usually resulted in an almost inversion of the attribute. SPECIFICALLY I THINK ONLY THE PRIMARY ATTRIBUTE WAS BROKEN/TWISTED. Below I will show what I think the attribute shifted to after the Devine attribute. Herald. Primary Divine Attribute. Secondary Divine Attribute. Jezrien. Protecting. (Submission) Leading Nale. Just. (Arbitrary)(Judgement) Confident Chanarach. Brave. Obedient Vedel. Loving. Healing Paliah. Learned. Giving Shalash. Creative. (Destructive) Honest Battar. Wise. Careful Kalak. Resolute. (Weak-willed) Builder Talenel. Dependable. (Erratic) Resourceful Ishar. Pious. (Traitorous) Guiding These are based off of what we have seen or heard in the books so far. These are not perfect words, but the 17th shard manymind will probably come up with better. There are some subtle indications that only 9 of the 10 fool's have a strong history or mythology. Here is one concerning Lyft and pancakes. I think I subconsciously connected Lyft's silly quest to eat all 10 Pancakes with the 10 fool's. Research could not find a direct correlation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jezrien gives up on protecting humanity personally, submits to the Will of the group, and sacrifices Talenel to uphold the entire oathpact. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Nale shifts from Just- working within the accepted standards of right and wrong to Arbitrary- following the rule of law without regards to morality.....he goes straight lawful evil. From Edgedancer Chapter 9, page 596 Arcanum Unbound, location 8565 Judgement not Justice. From Edgedancer Chapter 9, page 596 Arcanum Unbound, location 8565 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shalash is pretty clear with her running around destroying art, and significantly art that depicts her and other heralds. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kalak is in no way resolute when Jezrien meets him. He is in fact very weak willed, confessing that he cannot go back. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Talenel (if it really is him) comes back a broken man, highly erratic and unable to perform his duties as the Herald of War. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ishar formed the Knights Radiant originally, he led the Bondsmiths. He was also the one who promulgated the traitorous idea that 1 Herald could support the Oathpact. From Edgedancer: And And ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 5) We know there were not literally 99 desolation. I suspect there were 9. One each time Odium broke a Herald. Then the next time that Herald would not be tortured as hard so that about her would break first. Nine also being the number of Odium I believe would work well with this. After the Oathpact was discarded, Odium let humanity rewrite Roshar's history and religion in preparation for the Final Desolation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 6) The corruption of the 9 Heralds weakened Honor, but the Knights Radiant provided some support, until the Day of Requience when they abandoned all their oaths. Honor shattered shortly after. I have to go back and find some more quotes and WOB to fully support some of this, but I will edit them in as I find them.

So... The Heralds. Lots of interesting things going on here, and I just wanted to make a thread compiling all the information in one place, as well as adding some theories here and there. One thing I find interesting is that Brandon seems to take extra care to not confirm the appearances of any of the Heralds. I believe that even the so-called confirmed Heralds, namely Nalan and Shalash, have actually not been explicitly stated to be who we think they are. With all of the discussion centering around Taln description, Brandon may just have pulled a beautiful distraction from the fact that all the other Heralds are in the same boat as our Mad Talenel. Nevertheless, looking for them throughout the book is quite a bit of fun, and so here it is: The Heralds, and Where to Find Them. (Any information that can be added would be great. I'm probably missing quite a bit...) P.S.: I've included the phrases/curses used in the Heralds' names as I believe they conceal more information than we're giving them credit for. They are obviously each used in specific situations, but they may even be hints towards aspects of the heralds themselves. I believe there's a WoB somewhere that says the Heralds are not necessarily all from Roshar, which can lead to some interesting theories... Jezrien (Jezerezeh/Prime Kadasix/Kadasix of Kings): Order: Windrunners Physical Description: Regal; Wears blue and white; Young, looking barely into his thirtieth year; Short black beard, neatly trimmed. Quotes: "Praise Yaezir, Herald of Kings. May he lead in wisdom. If he ever stops drooling." (This is the line that implies that the beggar at the feast might actually be Jezrien. More on that below. It also draws a comparison to the "Kadasix of Kings" title. 'Kadasix' seems to be the word for 'Herald' in Azir, as proven in a statement by Nalan below.) Phrases: There don't seem to be any curses in Jezrien's name. The Azir have the "Praise Yaezir," but that's pretty much it. I wonder if that means something... Theories: There's been a theory that Kaladin's predecessor as head of the Cobalt Guard, Niter, is actually Jezrien in disguise. This is mainly due to the fact that Niter wears the Kholin blue and white, and is described as "tan-faced," with a "black beard, cut short," an extremely similar description to Jezrien's in the prelude. Nale (Nalan/Nin): (Herald of Justice) Order: Skybreakers Physical Description: Dark skin; has a pale crescent birthmark on his cheek; wears a black uniform with a double row of silver buttons down the coat's front, a stiff silver collar poking up from a shirt underneath; thick gloves with collars extending halfway back around his forearms; has a dead, lifeless stare. Quotes: "She glanced down the hallway. She could swear he was glowing faintly, and he was certainly running too quickly. Darkness was awesome too." (If he really is using Stormlight, he may be the Herald who we know took back his Blade. Then again, it may just be one of Nalan's little gadgets...) “The Kadasixes have spoken,” said one of the scions. “The Heralds?” Darkness said. “They have done no such thing. You are mistaken.” (This seems to me to be further proof that 'Darkness' is a Herald (as if it was needed).) Phrases: Nalan's Hand (Used when acknowledging a decision regarding justice) Theories: He is one of the most 'confirmed' Heralds, and is believed to be Darkness, one of the Azish ambassadors at Gavilar's feast, and the one who gives Nightblood to Szeth in the WoR Epilogue. Chana (Chanaranach/Chanarach): Order: Dustbringers (Releasers) Physical Description: Unknown Quotes: "The fastest man e’er known to live. The surest feet e’er known to roam. In time long past, in times I’ve known, he raced the Herald Chan-a-rach." (The fact that Fleet's speed is validated through its comparison to Chana makes sense, seeing as she also has access to the surge of Abrasion which, as Lift has demonstrated, can definitely make one quite fast.) Phrases: Chana knows, Chana help (Used when referring to something that concerns family, more specifically motherhood.) Theories: Vedel (Vedeledev): (Herald of Healing) Order: Edgedancers Physical Description: Unknown Quotes: Phrases: Vedeledev's Golden Keys (This is an interesting one. I haven't come up with anything for this one just yet, but there's obviously a story behind this.) Theories: Pali (Pailiah/Paliah): Order: Truthwatchers Physical Description: Unknown (Unless the Palanaeum theory is true, in which case we know she's old...) Quotes: Phrases: Pailiah knew Theories: It is confirmed that the Palanaeum was named after her, but there is a theory that the "berobed female ardent" Shallan sees is actually the Herald Pailiah in disguise. (More below.) Ash (Shalash): (Herald of Beauty) Order: Lightweavers Physical Description: Extremely beautiful; Dark skin; Long, beautiful black hair; "Eyes like a Shin, but tall and lean, like an Alethi"; Hair worn free, reaches down to waist; wears sleek and tight trousers; light violet eyes; wears a thin-bladed sword Quotes: "The mistress has good ears. Strangely good ears." - (WoK pg. 707) "Perhaps I should get myself a Shardblade." (Indicates that not only is the "thin-bladed sword" not a Shardblade, but she likely doesn't have one at all.) "A woman sits and scratches out her own eyes. Daughter of kings and winds, the vandal." (This fits with her being Jezrien's daughter (confirmed here), and is also the most solid evidence that the Mistress is Shalash.) “I’m worried about Ash...She's getting worse.” (WoR Prologue - A Herald talking about Shalash's condition to Nalan. Likely referring to her recent destructive streak.) Phrases: Ash's Eyes (Used when referring to something that concerns beauty) Theories: She's destroying pieces of art that she appears in. (This is actually already confirmed.) The reasons for this could be an entire thread all on its own, although I particularly like Argent's theory that the Heralds are rebounding off of their divine attributes. Creativity and Honesty seem to be the exact opposite of breaking in to places and vandalizing art. there is also the quote in the WoR Prologue that mentions how "Ash is getting worse." Cases of destroyed art include a missing Shalash statue in the WoK Prologue (pg. 23), the Baxil Interlude (WoK pg. 707), and Lift noticing a scratched out face in a portrait of the Heralds (WoR pg. 690). Battar (Battah): Order: Elsecallers Physical Description: Unknown Quotes: Phrases: Battah send that girl some sense... Theories: Kalak (Kelek): Order: Willshapers Physical Description: Unknown Quotes: Phrases: Kelek's Breath, Kelek's Tongue, Kelek knows (It's been postulated for a while that Kelek's Breath may be a hint towards his having come from Nalthis. Something I just thought of, however, is that Kelek's Tongue could also refer to the removal of the God Kings' tongues... Could it be that Kelek has no tongue?) Theories: There is a wounded bridgeman whom Kaladin helps that may turn out to be the Herald Kalak. He reacts slightly differently than the other bridgemen Kaladin cares for, but this is very much just a theory. (More below.) Alternatively, some have theorized that he is the man Nalan is talking to in the WoR Prologue. This seems to have a little more basis to support it. Taln (Talenelat/Talenel): (Herald of War/Stonesinew) Order: Stonewards Physical Description: Dark brown skin and eyes; back beard Quotes: “The burdens of nine become mine. Why must I carry the madness of them all? Oh, Almighty, release me.” —Dated Palaheses, 1173, unknown seconds pre-death. Subject: a wealthy lighteyes. Sample collected secondhand.” "...The Ancient of Stones must finally begin to crack It is a wonder that upon his will rested the prosperity and peace of a world for over four millennia." Phrases: Talat's Hand, Constellation named Taln's Scar Theories: I have a whole other thread on this. Ishar (Ishi): (Herald of Luck) Order: Bondsmiths Physical Description: Not much. He might have a long beard though, and is probably the scholar-figure of the Heralds. Quotes: Phrases: Ishar's Soul Theories: Is he the beggar mentioned below? The beard does seem to match Ishar's appearance in the Heraldic Icons that appear above certain chapters... ??? (Theorized Heralds): One thing to keep in mind is that Brandon has obviously seeded in certain red herrings with 'Heraldic' descriptions. Regardless, here are some of the more suspicious ones of the bunch: WoK pg. 23 - "A man with a long grey and black beard slumped in the doorway, smiling foolishly--though whether from wine or a weak mind, Szeth could not tell. "Have you seen me?" the man asked with slurred speech. He laughed, then began to speak in gibberish, reaching for the wineskin." (There are arguments for this being either Jezrien or Ishar. He is almost certainly a Herald, however, due to his comment of "Have you seen me?" when there are a line of Herald statues across the hall.) WoK pg. 40 - "The soldier on the other side of Cenn nodded. He was a lanky, red-haired Veden, with a darker tan skin than the Alethi. Why was he fighting in an Alethi army?" WoK pg. 502 - "It turned out to be just an old, berobed female ardent, shuffling with a lantern and followed by a parshman servant... Lit that way--with her figure hidden but the light streaming between the shelves--it looked as if one of the Heralds themselves were walking through the stacks." (Theorized to be Pali. The reason for this seems to be because we have a WoB saying that the Palanaeum, where Shallan is at the time, was named after her.) WoK pg. 745-746 - "He had dark brown skin and brown eyes, his thick black hair pulled back into a long, braided tail... He didn't have even a hint of an accent. Kaladin had expected him to be Azish because of the dark skin." (This is tentatively theorized to be Kalak, more through process of elimination than anything else.)

From WoK Epilogue: Kholinar on the map: Interesting, no? Why did Taln come back from Braize near the largest city in the area, or near Kholinar, and why was he wet? We have no mention of being wet when Jasnah elsecalls, no? Could he be have swum in through a shardpool or something? Tell me, yah?

@Tariniel "Could it be that the some form of the Heralds' minds are held in their Blades? Being that the Honorblades are a large part of what makes a Herald a Herald, that seems to make sense to me. Taking this a little further, it could be that the Heralds are tortured on Braize, not only until they break, but until they actually die. At least physically. Their minds live on in the Honorblades, which then return to Roshar and are bonded by the bodies which will eventually become the new Heralds. There is even a WoB (It's here, I believe) which says that they can remain on Roshar for a certain period of time before another Desolation begins. That could be a transitional phase when the bodies accustom themselves to holding the Herald's mind within them, allowing for them to be fully adjusted and ready to carry out their individual missions once the Desolation starts. This 'Taln' could simply be the body holding the Herald Talenelat, a suitable explanation for Brandon's cryptic way of referring to him. What do you guys think?" This was a brilliant idea I ran across made by @Tariniel that I wanted to add to with a tiny bit of evidence Here are all the Death Rattles that I believe to be made by Taln This is the first and most related to the above paragraph. That shard of his soul could be the Honorblades. Which could explain that Taln's physical body is still in Braize. While his blade became the man known as Taln once Talenel broke physically in braize, splitting his cognitive shadow (which I also believe to be held in the blades) from his body. This "Shard of his soul" is now on Roshar somewhere... since there is another entire topic related to Talenel's blade I shall just maintain that the "man known as Taln" as said by a WoB must have touched the fallen honorblade and was imprinted or perhaps IS a living Honorblade, A Nightblood esque chracter who is an actual physical human. This is Taln's death in my opinion. Perhaps the most shocking evidence of how devastating the betrayal of the other Heralds really is. Taln stands not just the average every day torment in hell, but rather one compounded. Atlas bearing the weight of a world in my opinion. Also the "Madness of them all" is interesting, since we know the "Heralds are all insane" per WoB, I wonder if perhaps this insanity was still given to the others even though they didn't return to Braize. This last death rattle is Taln's blade returning to Roshar, along with his cognitive shadow to be implanted upon the new Taln. All responses are welcome and arguments appreciated!

After the prologue, we encounter Taln (the Herald of War) at the end of Way of the Kings where he cuts through the city gate using his honorblade. Next in the Words of Radiance, while he is kept in the asylum, Dalinar bonds with Taln's blade. At the end when Dalinar bonds with the Stormfather, he hears screams from the same 'blade' indicating it was a Shardblade. So, what happened to Taln's 'honorblade'? Was it swapped 'offscreen'? If so, any theories regarding the swap and who might have done it?

I hate the Heralds. From stupid self deprecating Shallash to abusive and misled Naln. Every single one of them is a traitor of the highest magnitude that deserves a fate worse than Sadeas, after not only did they abandon a friend to a fate far worse than death, they LIED about it. No. No forgiveness for Naln after Edgedancer from THIS angry reader. Only Taln is exempt from my anger, someone who held out for 4500 years of torture suffering the fate of TEN people, but for one man... I can't WAIT for him to come to his senses, because he's going to have one HELL of a problem with those who left him behind. Can someone please give me a reason that they should not be universally reviled by every single reader of the SA!? Pity is not acceptable in my opiion, I wouldn't have care if they had ALL given up the Oathpact, but they left Taln behind. Sacrificed him, while they went on to have their minds break NOT because of 4500 years of torture, but because they were just too irresponsible and stupid to hold it together. *Takes deep breaths* I could be wrong, but since we have a WoB that says I don't know why they deserve anything good coming to them.

I have seen some references to this in other posts, but I have not yet found any answer or deep discussion on this... So, my main question is why/how did Taln resist in Damnation for 4500 years this time? The common answer is about his stubbornness, but I think that make no sense. Previously, ALL the heralds were in Damnation. Previously, Taln was in Damnation? Previously, the Desolations happen only hundreds of years apart. Now, when only one the heralds went to Damnation, it resisted for much longer?? Something is not quite right where... Some ideas: I have seen the suggestion that Odium plan for it. More time between Desolations mean more time for Humanity to forget how to deal with them (I don't know how to link to that post). Make sense, but then why chose a situation in which all other 9 Heralds are free?! Would it be better for Odium if all/most of them are trapped and only arrive on Roshar close to the Final Desolation? By allowing them to stay in Roshar it was possible for them to organize/teach people how to fight in the Desolation... As a side point, why the hell none of the Heralds did this?!?! I realize that they brook their oath. They might even be weaker (see Nale) because of it. But why did they completely abandon humanity? One of them at least should have kept teaching how to fight in the next desolation... Is it possible that the lie about Knights Radiant bringing Desolations was the reason for the Recreance? And it's not a complete lie and indeed the presence of many KR somehow bring the Desolations closer? Maybe this is why the gap was much larger (small number of KR in Roshar). The logic might be that KR use power from Honor/Cultivation. This weaken the grip of the prison for Odium and allow for the Desolation to happen. Maybe this was why the KR brook their oats! I saw the theory that the next Desolation starts when the FIRST Herald fail to endure the torture in Damnation (I always thought it would be when the LAST Herald fail). This would work for the time problem (Taln endure much more than any of the others). However, by rereading the prologue of TWoK this does not seem to be the believe of the Heralds. Related: - Why did KR start appearing close to a Desolation? What defines someone as potential KR and what decides whether the person will really be a KR? As conclusion, I think there might be something we are misinterpreting regarding Desolations/Oathpact/KR/Heralds. When things don't add up with Brandon, that indicates he is playing with us

I looked and I could find this theory being discussed so here we go. this assumes that Talnfrom the end of WoK is Talenel. Also that his shardblade is an Honorblade but by the time he gets the the shattered planes it has been switched to a normal shardblade. most of my info is from the coppermind. Basically I think Hoid took Talenel's Honorblade. We know he has acquired a significant amount of Breath and that he took a Lerasium pellet from the Well of Ascension. I'm sure there is other evidence that he is gathering "powers" from different worlds. With an Honorblade he would have both a shardblade and the surges affiliated with Talenel's order. Thats the whole reason Hoid is waiting for Taln. All Hoid needs is to have acquired an unknown shardblade and switch them without anyone knowing. Hoid has proved pretty resourceful in the past so I don't see a problem.

I think that the following death rattle deals with the mystery surrounding Taln. Now, we know that it's most likely that the person we think is Taln is some sort of imposter. We know this because of a WoB where he refuses to confirm that the person who claims to be Taln is who he says he is. So we are left with several questions. Mainly, who is this imposter, where did he come from and how did he get Taln's Shardblade? My theory is as follows. The death rattle quoted above refers to both Taln and his imposter. They are the two dead men who came from the pit. "The pit" would be referring to Braize, the purgatory where the heralds are relegated to in between Desolations. The "heart in their hands" is referring to Taln's Honorblade. Remember, before the Blade got switched out for a plain old Shardblade, the blade that Taln's imposter was carrying seems to be an Honorblade. I think that the Honorblade is instrumental in returning the Heralds from Braize to Roshar. They certainly grant investiture as evidenced by Szeth's manifestation of windrunner abilities. It's not too much of a stretch to say that the Honorblade is the "heart" that they are holding. "True Glory" can refer to one of two things. The obvious thing is the glory of a herald. The other requires me to elaborate on my theory. Here's what I think happened. Someone came to Braize to rescue Taln or to inform him of the coming Desolation. He would have to be a worldhopper and a powerful one at that to survive the hellfires of Braize. We see evidence of his power when he catches the poisonous darts fired at Amaram mid-flight. This however doesn't seem to match what we know as Heraldic powers. The heralds' powers I believe were just stronger versions of the knights radiant. For example, Jezrien would've been a really strong Windrunner, perhaps an immortal one in terms of aging. However, the heralds were not supermen. Superspeed was not, as far as I know in their repertoire. Nor is it in the repertoire of any of the invested beings on Roshar as far as I know. Maybe he's a Feruchemist (unlikely, but he could have tapped speed, after all his hand motion is described as a blur.) Regardless, his powers are not those of a Rosharian. So he goes to save Taln. He finds him, but Taln refuses to leave Braize. He feels that he must hold to the oathpact for fear of letting Odium free. The Oathpact is, I assume, what has bound Odium to the Rosharian System. However, he still feels the need to send help. Therefore he sends his Honorblade with the imposter and instructs him to help the Rosharians. Something goes wrong and the imposter loses his mind. Not sure why. The "Glory"is the sacrafice made by Taln in order to uphold the Oathpact. Wooooo..... Okay so hopefully most of that wasn't nonsense. Please comment and tell me what you think. P.S. I do think that the imposter is someone that Hoid knew. He refers to him as "My confused, unfortunate friend." Perhaps this was a friend of Hoid's on some previous Hoid adventure.

I believe we need some topic which would compile all the WoBs and hints and quotes and stuff we know about Taln. Taln - the one who showed up at the end of WoK Talenel - the Herald, Stonesinew They may be the same person, but for practical purposes we're gonna use these names to distinguish them. Brandon refuses to call this person Taln. Instead he says "person who calls himself Taln". Post what you know (with sources!), and I will add that to the main post every few days. Edit: I am going to read through this thread for information. I do not want this thread to become a place for theories, I want solid facts and quotes. Of course we can argue about their meaning, but I ask you to limit our discussion to only this, please.

So, I've been thinking on this for a while, and wanted some extra insight on it. So, at the end of Words of Radience, as Dalinar bonds with the Stormfather, the Stormfather makes him cast aside the Shardblade he is bonded to. Because of the Amaram subplot, we know Dalinar is currently bonded with Taln's(the madman we assume to be the Herald) blade, which, if he is in fact a Herald, would make this blade an Honorblade. However, when Dalinar summons it, he still hears the screams of the dead spren. However, when Kaladin took Szeth's Honorblade, he heard no screams. Does this mean that the man we assume to be Taln the Herald is not in fact the Herald? Or does it mean that Taln lost his Honorblade somewhere along the way? Any input is greatly appreciated. I hope I got some of ya'll's gears turning.

It's rather unnerving that Brandon refuses to call the man who showed up at the end of the Way Of Kings 'Talenel'. He talks about him "the man who calls himself Taln". One theory is that Talenel is so broken that he is not the man he was anymore. So he used to be Talenel, but that man is dead. Simple explanation, could be probable, but I am not sure Brandon actually would have gone with that. Here is some ungrounded theorising without (almost) any proof. Since this "Taln" (from now on I will simply call him Taln and the "real" Herald Talenel'Elin) thinks about constant torture and fire and his mantra is something a Herald could definitely say, then I suppose he really was in Damnation (on Braize). Since Talenel was there for 4500 years, somebody who was there with him could definitely have his words ingrained (is this good word?) in his mind. Even if he does not know the language it is spoken in (but I suppose Shardholder would know). Well, of course there could be another inhabitant of Braize, nobody said that Heralds are the only ones tortured by Odium. But Hoid seems to know him - well, I suppose he knows Heralds, but that is not what we're talking about here - and Hoid knew Rayse. So it could be him. Now, how the hell Rayse ended up in this situation? Maybe he got sick of being force of evil, maybe his mind broke from this constant hatred, maybe he couldn't cope with being responsible for so many genocides and death of his fellow Shardholders. Maybe he gave up Odium and switched with someone, then went to atone for his deeds in place of Talenel. Maybe the person he switched with was Talenel and Talenel took up Odium. Or maybe Talenel soloed him and won. Well, he already was in place which he couldn't die in, no matter the damage done to him. He was effectively immortal and even had his Honorblade! Who could stop him from going against Odium? Of course, the Oathpact and mechanism of Desolations may be grounded on him being tortured, but Talenel could have finally broken after thousand or two of torture meant for ten people and gone rampage. And killed defeated Rayse, but was forced to take his place. Or maybe someone entirely different took up Odium. But before Odium changed holders, he activated the time-trigger and the Desolation still was started eventually (remember, the start is when voidspren are released, the rest is just matter of time). The important bit is that Rayse was exposed to Heralds' Torture, broke, and was finally released to Roshar, and anything that was left in his mind was the words that Talenel repeated for thousands of years. Yeah, yeah, I know it's far fetched, but this whole thing with "Taln" is boiling my mind Disclaimer: I don't really believe that Taln is Rayse. I just thought "hey, what if... the man we thought was Herald is in fact the person who held the power which is a Big Bad?"

So I was WoB hunting on Theoryland, and came upon this very nice one about Honourblades and Hoid: Now, we know that the Shardblades come from Spren, but also that the Spren that are Splinters of Honour copied the Heralds to make the KR. This means that there were the Spren before the Spren... We also know (but I can't find the WoB) that there were Adonalsium Spren left over on Roshar. (If anyone puts it up on here, I'll add it.) My theory is that Honour used them to make the Honourblades. Also, the fact that Hoid makes the distinction with this makes it important and quite resolute. Anyway, pretty straightforward. Thoughts?

Ok in the Prelude to TWoK Talenel (Taln, Talenelat, Talenel'Elin) dies and his honorblade vanishes, so that there are only 9 left in the circle. In Words of Radiance, doesn't Dalinar bond Talenel'Elin's honorblade? And if Dalinar DID bond the honorblade, as WoR mentions in multiple places that Dalinar had bonded "that madman's blade". Why, at the end of WoR, does the blade that Dalinar has bonded start screaming inside his head after Dalinar swears his second oath, and The Stormfather refer to the blade as a "monstrosity"?? Especially if Szeth had an honorblade, and it did not scream in Kaladin's mind.

Jezrien. This might sound crazy and I don't think there's enough evidence to conclusive prove it yet (and WoB suggests not) but here goes: So WoB has hinted that Taln isn't Taln (though that could be a red herring) so I got to thinking to who it could be... We know that the current heralds are going crazy along the lines of their previous character so Nalan is taking justice to extremes and Shalash is breaking all her own statues. So how would the epitome of Honour break when he's broken the most important oath he ever swore? Answer: By trying to get back what he lost and taking on the role of the person he most betrayed. Taln who the other heralds abandoned to hell-equivalent. I think however it goes beyond Jezrien pretending to be Taln and into the fact that he believes he is now Taln. This puts a new slant on the 'Am I too late? in his PoV sections. From Taln-perspective, is he too late to stop the desolations? From Jezrien's perspective, I think it ties in thematically with Kaladin's plotline, is he too late to regain the honour he's lost by breaking the oath? This might also explain why the blade Dalinar bonded is not an honour blade as we know Jezrien doesn't have his honour blade... which I think will tie in with the narrative because: where is Jezrien's honour blade? Well, Kaladin got it back off Szeth so it's currently in Urithiru which is where Amaran is taking Jezrien. Herald and Honour-blade reunion? WoB says there isn't enough evidence yet for what happened to the herald-blade which leads me to think if my theory is correct, there isn't enough evidence that Jezrien is Taln. Other evidence is that the conversation between Nalan and someone in the Jasnah PoV prologue mentions Jezrien being a drooling mess. Obviously this occurs well before the epilogue to WoK where Taln/Jezrien arrives but I think Taln/Jezrien is definitely someone who could be described as a mess, perhaps a mess who is just starting to recover a semblance of sanity through pretence. Also when Taln catches the blade before it kills Amaran, did he really catch it or could he have used a binding to pull it to himself? I'm not sure what 'powers' Heralds have, whether it's the same as their orders or something more. Other possible evidence that I only discovered from checking the coppermind, this quote: “[The Makabaki] worship Jezrien, though they don’t accept him as a figure from the Vorin religion. They name him the only god.” —Teft about the Makabaki[1] I'm pretty sure that the current Taln was described as looking like a Makabaki so it makes sense that their God looks like them! I can't think of a good explanation yet so why Hoid tells Taln/Jezrien he's late... other than it possibly tying into the conversation about being the second person to <x> so Jezrien is the second person to 'be Taln' as it were or why the shardblade that Taln/Jezrien found somewhere didn't disappear when he was unconscious but still. So, complete madness or possibility?

It seems strange to me that the Heralds would accept immortality in exchange for eternal torture. I don’t care how “honorable” the Heralds are (and many of them have as much or more Cultivation in them as Honor). No earthly religious figures endured so much over their lifetimes for their beliefs, let alone through eternity. It's just so improbable, even in a work of fantasy fiction. So I sought an alternative explanation consistent with Roshar’s magical and planetary peculiarities. This is what I’ve come up with. 1. The Heralds Are Identity Spren Whoever the original Heralds were, they gave their memories and physical, mental and emotional characteristics (their “Identity”) to Honor to help maintain Odium‘s imprisonment in the Rosharian system. Honor created an “Identity spren” for each Herald and implanted that spren in each Honorblade. When the time comes for a Desolation, each Honorblade seeks a human whose physical characteristics and temperament match their Herald’s “Divine Attributes.” The Honorblade then bonds that person to itself. In other words, the Identity spren/investiture attaches itself to that person’s spirit web at precisely the places necessary to make that person into their Herald. As Syl has noted, the Blade itself is not a spren, but the spren within the Blade chooses a human to bond with. Through this investiture – more than the amount of investiture constituting a RadiantSpren – each bonded Herald acquires his or her non-surgebinding abilities that Brandon has alluded to (Taln’s quickness and hand speed, for example), as well as that Herald’s physical appearance, personality and memories. 2. The Oathpact The Oathpact was the agreement of the Heralds to fight for Honor in exchange for immortality. I believe they did not know how they were made immortal or that it would result in their perceived “torture.” Kalak’s interaction with Jezrien in the WoK Prelude (calling him the “immortal king”) supports this interpretation. Moreover, WEZ313 in an April 2015 post referenced a WoB that purportedly said "the Heralds blamed Honor for what happened to them." 3. The Honorblades Are Voidbinding Fabrials Honor designed the Honorblades to consume investiture, bind the investiture together as Stormlight (“Voidbinding”), and recycle the Stormlight. The Heralds are Voidbinders. Stormlight consists of physical investiture in gaseous form from each of Honor, Cultivation and Odium. It is the balance of the investitures that enables Honor to "bind the Void," and imbalances that cause Desolations. (Many storylines grow from this conclusion, and I’m still working through all the implications. Rather than to go into more about this now, may I say RAFO? 4 . Where the Heralds Go When They Don’t Die The Heralds “go back” following Desolations even when they don’t die because the Honorblades consume and return each Herald’s Identity spren to the corresponding Honorblade. 5. The Heralds’ “Torture” A Herald’s “torture” between Desolations is the Identity spren’s exposure to Odium’s investiture in the re-forging of Stormlight through the Voidbinding process. The Identity spren may or may not participate in this process. The intensity of the intra-Honorblade battle between Honor’s binding and Odium’s divisive investiture is what the Heralds perceive as the daily rendering and regrowth of their “flesh.” (Recall that Stormlight includes Cultivation’s Progression surge, which heals the Heralds from that damage.) 6. Who Is Taln? Taln IS Taln. But the spren that constitutes his identity had been locked inside that Honorblade waaaay longer than it had ever been before. Like other spren, it lost much of its memory and other cognitive characteristics when it transitioned into the Physical Realm. It will take Taln some time to recover himself. (Who now has his Honorblade is another story…) 7. The Stone Shamans Keep the Honorblades in the Mountains East of Shinovar Of the many singular things about Shinovar, most striking is the absence of spren. One reason is that the Stormlight-bearing Highstorms have dissipated by the time they reach the mountains east of Shinovar, and those mountains scrape off however much of the Highstorms remain. I propose an additional reason: the investiture-consuming Honorblades are kept in those mountains. They create a barrier to ensure that no investiture of any kind slips through into Shinovar. (I address why that is in another part of my Theory.) There's a lot more to say, but that's it for now.

As the title says, Taln reminds me of spook. The part in his first interlude he says "They were on fire. The walls were on fire. The floor was on fire. Burning and the inside of a cannot where to be and then at all. Where? A trip. Water? Wheels? Fire. Yes, fire." Inside of a cannot where to be and then at all really sounds alot like High Imperial to me and he was in a burning building where he had to open up locks(wheels) to get water. Actually he's been in a few burning buildings. Being a Mistborn would be handy to the Herald of War and may explain how he saw the dart coming and caught it Dont know if there is enough meat to this to really call it a theory just that that line caught my ear.

My theory is this, based on information found during and near the end of Words of Radiance:

Hi all, this is my first post here, so please be nice. A couple of signing questions got me thinking about Nohadon. First, Nutiket Aiel asked: at this link: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/7051-philadelphia-wor-signing-reports/ Also, Sanderson RAFO'd EHyde when asked whether Nohadon was a Bondsmith. I have a very blunt (and speculation-heavy) theory about the whereabouts of Nohadon. I believe that Nohadon has gained Heraldic powers from his part in the founding of the Knights radiant, and drew the attention of Odium. After this, he was taken to Braize to be tortured with the rest of the Heralds, and remained there with Taln after the breaking of the Oathpact. In addition, I believe that Nohadon is the Taln impostor in Words of Radiance (if "Taln" is in fact not Taln). I have very flimsy, mostly circumstantial evidence for this (and some of it is complete speculation), but I believe that it's completely possible. We know that: "Taln" was not startled by Shallan's lightweaving, and remembered Ishi founding the Knights. If Nohadon was the imposter, he would definitely remember the founding and powers of the Radiants and would likely be used to dealing with them. The blade Dalinar took from "Taln" was not an honorblade. If Nohadon is standing in for Taln, he would not have an honorblade. It is possible that Nohadon holding the shardblade would bring the spren back to life more than a human would. This could allow the blade to have a limited shape-shifting capability while Nohadon is holding it. Once he drops it, the blade reverts back into its original appearance. The blade was not cataloged because Nohadon still had it while in damnation. "Taln's" mantra is seemingly automated, and he's completely mad. While Nohadon might have the powers of a Herald, I highly doubt that he would be able to withstand the torture as effectively as one of them. It's possible that Odium recognized this and tortured Nohadon to think that he was and view himself as Taln, and sent him to Roshar as a mad Taln in order to cause humanity to weaken itself. After all, the Sons of Honor think that creating a desolation will bring back the Heralds. What better way to encourage them to send an impostor that looks like, talks like, and has the powers of the real Herald? This desolation is different. In the chapter 68 epigraph/death rattle from the Way of Kings: “They named it the Final Desolation, but they lied. Our gods lied. Oh, how they lied. The Everstorm comes. I hear its whispers, see its stormwall, know its heart.” It is possible that since the Listeners and Sons of Honor are creating their own desolation, Odium is not bound by the Oathpack to send the real Taln to Roshar and prepare humanity. Also, we know that Hoid wants Jasnah to find God in the "hearts of men." The heart of the Everstorm could be mankind, as the Sons of Honor goaded the listeners in seeking Odium. This could be a coincidence, but I think that it lends a shred of credence to my theory. I think that the largest hole in the theory is the cleaver-like shardblade. I know that Nohadon would have lived before the Recreance, and likely would not have had an opportunity to obtain the blade. Maybe Odium gave it to him? I'll have to think about this part. Based on the evidence, it's fairly conclusive that Nohadon is not dead and that he had/has some type of Surgebinding or other magical powers. The rest of the theory is mostly speculation backed by a few coincidences. What do you guys think? Is there a more realistic or viable theory for where Nohadon is? Am I missing something?

Well I was thinking about the shard blade that Dalinar gets from Taln and mainly how it's not an honor blade as you would expect Taln to have, him being one of the Heralds and all. Dalinar's shardblade screams like normal shardblades do(when held by radiant) which means that it is [spoiler] A dead spren [/spoiler] and it does not give him any surgebinding powers. Now very interestingly the Taln has at the end of the way of kings is described as a large spike while the shard blade that Dalinar ends up with is described as cleaver like so I thought maby they aren't the same blade right? and that somehow Taln had managed to get a second shardblade while wandering around and mostly insane and I thought "well maybe that's just something Hearlds can do and they can just summon extra shard blades or something." But then I had a better idea So Hoid is known to swipe various objects that can grant magical powers, like that Lerasium bead, and an unknown quantity of breath and stuff like that right? and Hoid was the guy who met with Taln first, immediately after he showed up. So what if Hoid swiped Taln's honorblade, swapped it out with a regular shardblade so that no one asked questions, and made of with stone-warden powers free of any oaths and all those normal surgebinder/spren bond restrictions.

I don't believe enough attention has been given over to Talendel. Being one of only 2 scenes we KNOW to contain a Herald I believe the discrepancies of it deserve further review.(if this has been noted already, I apologize.) Taln's return to Kholinar has 2 distinct issues I'd like to focus on. #1: Taln's description outside the gates is remarkable. He is soaking wet, his hair is matted, and there are bits of wood and leaves in his beard. There is no mention of a storm that night, in fact the guards are specifically mentioned as being out of the guarhouse for fresh air. Far more telling is the mention of his beard. I imagine little twigs like floatsom on a pond surface. I cannot anywhere recall rockbuds having leaves , only vines, nor do I find mention of rivers or lakes any where save the Pure lake. Shinovar is described as being a verdant green valley. And such greenery requires vast amounts of hydration. #2: Delves much more into theory land, but I've been during to mention it. His Shardblade. Its too simple. Everywhere else they are Masterworks of flowing design. Even Kalak says that the Herald blades are finely wrought weapons. Taln has a long, simple, silver spike. This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rules man! LoL. My connection to the Shin here is much more tenuous, mainly being that Sveth's blade is the only other deviation from the Shardblades we know. His is shorter, though still q long it's not 6 feet in length, and sharp on both sides instead of one. I understand the Odium-Sveth blade theory, but I thought I'd mention it.