Search the Community

Hello everyone here is what I'm going to ask you: pick 2 powers from magic systems in the cosmere, tell me which ones they are and explain why you picked them up.( it can be two powers from a same magic system( feruchemy pewter and gold for example) For me it's allomantic steel and feruchemic iron because in battle you can just fly around if you're a powerful enough allomancer and if someone tries to shoot you, you can change your weight and you can make yourself lighter to fall more slowly so that the shoot misses because you weren't where your opponent thought you were.

Of the 10 orders of the Knights Radiant, seven are named after surges: Windrunners- Gravitation Skybreakers- Division Bondsmiths- Adhesion Elsecallers- Transportation Lightweavers- Illumination Willshapers- Cohesion Edgedancers- Abrasion That leaves three orders: Dustbringers Stonewards Truthwatchers that aren't named after surges. It also leaves three surges: Growth/Regrowth Transformation Tension that don't have a specific order focusing on them. Renarin (truthwatcher) states that he "sees things." That makes me wonder, do the other two orders have special powers too, or is it just a cool sounding name? Interesting note, Windrunner's order name focuses on gravitation, and Lightweaver focuses on illumination. Kaladin's book focused on gravitation, and Shallan's focused on illumination. Tell me what you think below.

I am sorry if something similar has been posted already, but I have a few questions about the surge Regrowth and Kaladin in general. Szeth's seemed to imply, in his conversation with Taravangian that Knights Radiant had the ability to heal Shard-severed limbs. Taravangian placates Szeth by saying one of the Honorblades that allow Regrowth must have been stolen. My question is: if healing Shard-severed limbs requires Regrowth, how can Kaladin have done it? Is Kaladin somehow different than other Radiants (as Sanderson sometimes seems to imply)? Kaladin also seems to have the ability to ride the storms and he also has glimpsed Shadesmar, albeit breifly. Is Kaladin more that he seems, or am I just reading into the text too much?

I was thinking about how much trouble Kaladin had with basic lashings and I started thinking of ways that accidents could happen with surges. I imagine Dalinar kicking a tree and having it bend and spring back or a Dustbringer blowing up a canteen of water. Please post other ideas here.

As everyone knows, pocket sand is already a devastatingly effective weapon. Now imagine if you were to add a full lashing to the sand as you threw it. Not only would your enemy be blinded, but they would have grains of sand stuck to their eyeballs - ouch! And however they might try to blink it out, it wouldn't go away until its stormlight ran out. Maybe you could also use both a full lashing and basic lashing to make the sand float in mid air like a deadly eyeball landmine. Anyone else got any ideas for unconventional uses of surges?

Please Note: The following is all speculation, and not necessarily correct. I could not help noticing that a number of people with the same surges seemed to have similar personalities. I'm not sure whether this has been discussed before, but here is my theory. Orders with a type of Surge in it will be attracted to a kind of personality. I have a few examples. Windrunners/ Skybreakers: Shared Surge = Gravitation Both the Windrunners and the Skybreakers seem to feel the need to uphold what they believe to be right. In the Windrunners case, it is their own personal ethics, while in the Skybreakers case, it is the law they attempt to uphold. This could be why their is anger between them, as when their beliefs conflict, both sides will feel the need to uphold their own belief. Lightweavers and Elsecallers: Shared Surge = Soulcasting Shallan Davar and Jasnah Kholin both have a keen interest in the scholarly arts. This is probably just due to a co-incedence, but what if the spren associated with Soulcasting are attracted to scholarly figures in the same way creationspren are attracted to Shallan when she creates an artwork?

The latest Q&A someone asked: Q: Will a Radiant using an honorblade get those surges, too? A: Yes, "it is possible to get multiples." So what surge combo would you want to see? It may be kinda early for this questions considering we don't know a whole lot, but lots of cool implications. Or dangerous baddies.

Introduction In a previous thread, I noted several strange things about how the Surges are currently connected to the Orders/Essences. Most of them just didn't seem to fit, in my view. How does blood relate to illumination? What has tallow got to do with transformation? Anyway, since I promised not to formulate a theory in that thread, I'll just post the theoretical solution I came up with here. But first, let me describe two other issues that, in addition to the Surge issues I've already mentioned, eventually led me to this theory (spoilered for length). The Problem of Elemental Arrangement The Problem of Edgedancers Due to these problems, I'm going to theorize that, for some reason, Tanavast "did a Leras" and fiddled with Rosharian Investiture at some point in the past. Let me detail this theory into four parts (plus a few appendices): Part I: What Was Part II: What Could Have Been Part III: What Came to Be Part IV: What Might Be Appendix A: Order-specific Powers and the Limitation of Lightborn Appendix B: Cultivation, the Listeners, and Odium Appendix C: Circumstantial Evidence from the Books Part I: What Was I believe that what we now see in the Knights Radiant chart does not reflect the natural order of the Surges on Roshar. This natural order involves eight "basic" Essences (Lucentia, Spark, Vapor, Zephyr, Blood, Tallow, Foil, and Talus) that normally interact with Roshar, and the two "Aether" Essences (Sinew and Pulp) that deal with Shardic Investiture and transcend the other eight. The interaction of the eight Essences manifest as the eight "basic" Surges: Illumination, Transformation, Gravitation, Transportation, Tension, Friction, Cohesion, and Division. Each Surge reflected the qualities of two Essences, as I shall detail below (spoilered for length): Here's a diagram: And here's another diagram with the exact same Essence connections, but twisted vertically at the center, and with Sinew and Pulp added but disconnected from the others: Notice how it's almost the Double Eye of the Almighty, only minus the connections to Sinew and Pulp. Also, notice how it looks like two diamonds merged at the tip. In fact, even the first diagram sort of looks like a gemstone, and can probably be stylized into looking like the crown view of an "old eight cut" diamond. Edit: Re-worded Part I due to theory developments in Part III. I sometimes change my mind about details in my theory halfway through writing it. Sorry if this confused anyone. Also, fixed some weird formatting errors that appeared in my last edit.

Okay, I don't intend to make a theory here (I promise!). I'll describe something that's been bugging me ever since we started learning more about the Surges from various post-WoK WoBs, and especially after WoR. After I do that, I'll let you guys give whatever explanation you can think of. Because I certainly don't know what to make of this. The first inkling of this problem of mine appeared when we learned that there is a form of Lightweaving on Roshar, and that it involved the Surge connecting Pulp and Blood. When I saw that, I felt troubled. "What's Blood got to do with Light?" I asked myself. This nagging feeling that something was wrong intensified when we finally got the Surge name: "Illumination". Illumination. Light. Shouldn't that be more of a Spark (which connotes "fire") and Lucentia (which is Latin for "visibility") thing? What's going on? Then I looked at the other Surges. There is Transformation, the Surge of Soulcasters, which was assigned to Blood and Tallow. Note the term: Soulcaster. Why then isn't it assigned to Spark, which is the Essence of the Soul? And Vapor is the Essence of smoke, the end product of certain significant transformations. So Transformation would have been the perfect Surge for Spark and Vapor, except it was given (randomly, it seemed to me) to Blood and Tallow. Next, there is Transportation. I don't know about you, but I think Blood, which transfers oxygen and nutrients to all the cells in the body, sounds like a perfect Essence for Transportation. I'm not quite sure of what a second appropriate Essence would be (Pulp might fit due to the capillary action that happens in plants), but that's beside the point that the Surge has weird connections. What's Foil (metal) got to do with Transportation?! Then the real weirdness starts. Doesn't Progression sound perfect for Pulp and Tallow (because, you know, fat makes things bigger)? Okay, that was sort of a joke. But speaking of Tallow, doesn't it remind you of Lift's "Slick" ability (because, you know, oil makes things slick)? But that ability is supposed to be from the Abrasion Surge, connected to Lucentia and Spark. It does not make sense! None of this makes sense! If the Essence does not fit, you must acquit! Um... sorry about that... Could anyone help me make sense of all this? Am I just seeing connections that don't really exist? Did Tanavast mess with the Surges when he arrived on Roshar? Or did some other Shard do the messing? Or is there some other more elegant explanation? The only Surge that I think sort of fits its current Essences is Cohesion and Adhesion. I don't even know what to think of Gravitation and Division! Heeelllppp... Edit: Other problems: Why does Talus have both Strong Axial Interconnection ("Cohesion") and Soft Axial Interconnection ("Tension")? And isn't the Tension Surge supposed to be based on surface tension, which is a property of liquids? Edit: Whoops, I accidentally wrote a four-part theory based on this. Sooorrryyy...

This will probably be a long theory, and it might not make sense at the beginning, but just bear with me. Okay, here is my theory: Surgebinding is of both Honor and Cultivation, but some orders are primarily related to Honor and some are primarily related to Cultivation. Okay, so what do we know about Bondsmiths and Truthwatchers? For one thing, we know Dalinar is a Bondsmith. Renarin is a Truthwatcher. (Ym is as well, but we're not talking about him.) Alright, so refer to the Ten Essences Chart and you'll find out that Ishar's (and therefore Dalinar's) divine attributes are Pious and Guiding. This makes sense, as Dalinar is strict about obeying the Alethi Codes of War and following the Knights Radiant (Pious) and makes decisions and tries to set an example for the other Highprinces (Guiding). Paliah's (and therefore Renarin's) divine attributes are Learned and Giving. Again, this makes sense, as Renarin is always eager to learn (Learned) and helps others out (Giving). Looking at the Essences Chart, you will also notice that Ishar's soulcasting properties are meat and flesh, while Paliah's are wood, plants, and moss. It seems as if Bondsmiths and Truthwatchers are kind of opposite orders, especially since they are the two orders directly across from each other in the middle of the Knights Radiant Orders Table: Yeah, Bondsmiths and Truthwatchers are basically opposites. So what? Ah, excellent question. And that's where we get deep into this matter. What happens to Dalinar that happens to nobody else? During the Highstorms, he has visions of the past. Visions of Honor, if I may add. And what happens to Renarin that happens to nobody else? During the Highstorms, he has visions... of the future. And which shard does Honor say is good at foretelling of the future? If that weren't enough proof, let's look at Truthwatcher's and Bondsmith's Surges. Truthwatchers have the Surges of Progression and Illumination. Progression has to deal with healing and growing, and, coincidentally, the word "Cultivation" has to deal with growing plants. Illumination has to deal with sight and seeing, two things that Cultivation is apparently good at. On the other hand, Bondsmiths have the Surges of Adhesion and Tension. Adhesion has the ability to bond things together, which is Honor's Intent. We don't exactly know what Tension does, but if this theory is true, it will likely have something to deal with bonds. If we split the KR chart into two halves (top and bottom), you get five orders of Honor-based Surgebinders and five orders of Cultivation-based Surgebinders. Another one of the Honor-based Surges, Gravitation, deals with altering an object's Spiritual bond towards the ground. The fourth (and last) of the "Honor-Surges" would be Cohesion, which, again, we know little about. Since we don't know Cultivation's Intent, it is difficult to prove whether the other two Cultivation-Surges (Abrasion and Transformation) are related to Cultivation. There's also Division and Transportation, the two Surges split between Honor and Cultivation. My personal theory with the Surge of Division is that it is similar to how Ruin and Preservation worked together to create life on Scadrial. Instead of Ruin and Preservation, though, Honor and Cultivation worked together to do something normally against their (or at least Honor's) Intent. Also, as stated above, the soulcasting materials corresponding with Paliah and Truthwatchers are wood, plants, and moss, which are all related to the meaning of the word Cultivation. Honor likely created the creatures of Roshar; Cultivation created the plants. If you need any more proof, look at the KR Orders Table above, and look at the border. The top half of the border (Honor's) is red, and has only male Heralds. The bottom half (Cultivation's) is blue, and has only female Heralds. Coincidence? I don't think so... So if this is true, what does it mean? I think that it means that some of the Radiantspren (and perhaps regular spren) are more of Honor, and some are more of Cultivation. This explains why Wyndle thinks of the Nightwatcher as his mother, and why Syl identifies herself with Honor and the Stormfather. I also wonder what this means for the other 20 magic systems of Roshar. Could Voidbinding be a combination of Cultivation and Odium? In that case, what magic system is caused by Honor and Odium? So, does this theory seem sound? And what does this mean for our knowledge of the Cosmere?

THEORY IN BRIEF I believe the Surges keep Odium captive in the Rosharian planetary system. As part of his long-term plan, Odium causes the listeners to create the Everstorm. The Everstorm will block the Highstorms’ reinvestment of Stormlight on Roshar. Without that reinvestment, the Surges will not be able to renew themselves. Roshar will break apart, and Odium will be free to leave the Roshar system. While the Everstorm circles, the human and other survivors will find themselves besieged in Urithiru surrounded by the Voidbringer hosts. Urithiru’s Stormlight resources will be severely depleted. To restore them, Kaladin will break free of the siege, travel to the Origin, and bring back to Urithiru substantial new Stormlight reserves. Urithiru will then be capable of fighting the Voidbringers and holding out far longer than Odium expects. Odium, fearing he may lose this war, will be forced to accept the challenge of a duel of champions. Kaladin will defeat Odium’s champion, reestablishing Odium’s captivity. “TANAVAST’S DESIGN” OF ODIUM’S CAPTIVITY The Rosharian System Imprisons Odium The writer of the “second letter” claims Odium cannot leave the Rosharian system: “Rayse is captive. He cannot leave the system he now inhabits. His destructive potential is, therefore, inhibited.” (Epigraph to WoR Chapter 69.) The writer is unsure “[w]hether this was Tanavast’s design or not…” (Epigraph to WoR Chapter 70.) The Surges Form the Prison The WoR Ars Arcanum author believes the ten Surges – “thought to be the fundamental forces by which [Roshar] operates – are more accurately a representation of the ten basic abilities offered to the Heralds, and then the Knights Radiant, by their bonds.” (WoR Hardcover, p. 1084.) The in-world Words of Radiance author describes the Surges as “the bonds that drive Roshar itself.” (WoR Epigraph to Chapter 38, emphasis added.) If the Surges do not accurately describe the “fundamental forces” of Roshar, then Honor must have had some other reason for placing them on Roshar. Whether by design or not, the result of their creation was to imprison Odium in the Rosharian system. Evidence The best proof that the Surges imprison Odium is the action he takes to escape his captivity. That is the Everstorm. Honor fears the Everstorm will cause Roshar to fall into dust. (WoK Paperback, pp. 1244-45.). That is the expected result when the “bonds that drive Roshar itself” – that literally hold the planet together – are stripped away. Odium has no other reason to destroy Roshar. If he simply wanted to splinter Cultivation, he does not need to destroy Roshar to do so. He did not destroy Sel when he splintered Devotion and Dominion there and he did not previously destroy Roshar when he splintered Honor. The destruction of Roshar is simply the by-product of the elimination of the Surges. That is why I conclude that the Surges are the instruments of Odium’s captivity. ODIUM’S PLAN TO FREE HIMSELF Stormlight Reinvests Roshar’s Magic, Including the Surges Odium’s plan is to interrupt the cycle of magical reinvestment on Roshar, causing the Surges to fail. WoB (somewhere) states that magical investiture is generally a renewable resource. On Roshar, Stormlight is the means of that renewal. Kaladin describes Stormlight as “the Surges reduced to some primal form.” (WoR Hardcover, p. 469.) WoB analogizes Stormlight to the mist in Mistborn, It is the gaseous state of Honor’s (and Cultivation’s?) investiture on Roshar. Two Elements to Odium’s Plan Odium’s plan has two broad elements. The first is to soak up existing Stormlight through the creation of a horde of Voidbringers. Voidbringers, according to Szeth, can “hold [stormlight] in perfectly” (WoK Paperback, p. 13). The second element is to block the Highstorms’ reinvestment of Stormlight. The Everstorm accomplishes both elements. The Everstorm will gain strength with each of its revolutions around Roshar. Its next pass will convert the Parshmen into Stormform listeners. During future passes, these new listeners will add their song to what the Shattered Plains listeners started, increasing the size and scope of the Everstorm. In his dream Kaladin sees the Everstorm as “so enormous as to make the continent – the world itself – into nothing by comparison“ – much bigger than when the Everstorm began on the Shattered Plains. (WoR Hardback, p. 369, emphasis in original.) Because the Everstorm moves in the opposite direction from the Highstorms, as it grows in force it will first prevent the Highstorms from reaching the Rosharian continent. Eventually the Everstorm may prevent Highstorms from forming at all, blowing them away at their birth. WoB states Highstorms were initially a meteorological event, but at some point became magical as well, presumably through the addition of Stormlight. We don’t know how Stormlight gets added to the Highstorms, although it’s a safe guess that that occurs at the Origin. Regardless, it seems reasonable to assume that a catastrophic storm multiples larger than a Highstorm should be able to kill a Highstorm in its cradle. The Diagram’s Prediction Taravangian’s Diagram seems to agree that the Everstorm is Odium’s path to freedom: "destroy [the listeners] outright before [one of them] obtains their power. ​It will form a bridge." (Epigraph to WoR Chapter 89, reformatted and emphasis added.) I interpret this statement to mean the Everstorm (created by the listeners’ “power”) is the bridge by which Odium will escape the Rosharian system. Odium’s Plan to Destroy Surgebinders Part of Odium’s plan has been to thwart or destroy those who might oppose him – Surgebinders: the Heralds and the KR. Odium has used several tactics to implement this stratagem: First, he influenced nine of the Heralds to abandon the Oathpact (as many in this Forum have speculated). Second, I believe Odium caused the Recreance (whatever its apparent immediate cause) to break up the KR and eliminate them. Third, he influenced Nale to kill fledging surgebinders (as many in this Forum have speculated) so the KR could not reestablish itself. Fourth, he caused the listeners to create the Everstorm. If the Everstorm can eliminate Stormlight, neither the Heralds nor the KR will be able to surgebind, When Odium first set upon his plan, he was dealing only with the Heralds, inefficient users of Stormlight through their Honorblades. The spren, perhaps in anticipation of the Everstorm, created the Nahel bond with humans, a much more efficient means of using Stormlight and, hence, the Surges. This flaw in Odium’s plan enables the KR to hold out longer than Odium expects during the Siege of Urithiru. Odium’s Plan Began Many Millenia Ago Odium has been planning for the Everstorm a long time. The Stormfather tells Dalinar that the Everstorm is “a new thing, but old of design.” (WoR Hardcover, p. 1070.) The Desolations began as a war by one of Roshar’s native populations, the listeners, to repel the human invaders of Roshar. WoB states there were no Desolations before humans came to Roshar. The humans won these wars, evicting the listeners from more and more territory. Hatred of humans led some of the listeners to become “unmade” by Odium into his creatures. These listener “gods” introduced the forms of power. Through these forms, Odium began to wield influence among the listeners. Further losses to humans over the millennia led the Lost Legion to abandon their gods. Before the final battle of the Last Desolation, Melishi the Bondsmith developed his plan to enslave listeners by stripping them of their spren rather than destroying them (or so many suspect). I believe Odium influenced Melishi to adopt this plan so that Odium would have potential Stormform listeners available to him when the time came. There has been no Desolation for the past four millennia because Odium realized he didn’t need to cause one – that humankind itself was capable of sufficient hatred without external influence. Thus, Honor tells Dalinar that “[Odium]’s realized that you, given time, will become your own enemies. That he doesn’t need to fight you. Not if he can make you forget, make you turn against one another…” (WoK Paperback, p. 1246, emphasis in original.) Human forgetfulness has made them ignore Parshmen until the time comes for Odium to use them. Recent Events Gavilar came into contact with descendants of the Lost Legion a year or two before SA began. We can assume he found the black stone that he gave to Szeth at about the same time, since that is when Gavilar “changed” (according to several characters). WoB states that the light in that stone is not Stormlight and heavily implies it is a form of Odium’s investiture. Part of Gavilar’s changed behavior was to become more religious. He also joined/founded the Sons of Honor, with Amaram. Their goal was to bring back the Voidbringers so the Heralds would return. I believe Odium influenced Gavilar in these respects. I also believe Odium influenced Gavilar to share his plan with the visiting listeners, anticipating the listeners would assassinate Gavilar and start the War of Vengeance. (Perhaps it will turn out that Amaram suggested to Gavilar that he do this.) The war reduced the listeners to a state where they were willing to embrace the Everstorm. Odium influenced Venli to re-discover Stormform rather than the forms of peace, as Eshonai expected. We know the rest... HOW ODIUM WILL BE DEFEATED It begins with the re-founding of the KR and their re-occupation of Urithiru. I believe Honor’s plea to Dalinar to “unite them” has multiple levels: unite the KR, unite all humankind, and unite all of Roshar’s peoples, ancient and nouveau. Honor binds, hatred divides – a strong theme of SA. All will join in the war, including some of the Heralds, eventually finding their way to Urithiru. Honor says to Dalinar: “The sun approaches the horizon. The Everstorm comes. The True Desolation. The Night of Sorrows. You must prepare. Build of your people a fortress of strength and peace, a wall to resist the winds.” (WoK Paperback, p. 1242.) Urithiru is shaped with the eastward side flat and the westward side curved to withstand the Everstorm – “a wall to resist the winds.” Honor calls the Everstorm the “Night of Sorrows” because of the extended period of darkness the Everstorm will bring. Members of the New KR Not coincidentally, the KR we currently know or anticipate includes members of different countries and races: at least four from Alethkar (Dalinar, Kaladin, Renarin and Jasnah), one from Jah Keved (Shallan), one from the Reshi Isles (Lift), and one (probably) from Shinovar (Szeth). To these, I believe we can add the following characters (and maybe some others we haven’t met yet): Eshonai. Her fall into the chasms will find Eshonai reunited with her mother and the listeners who escaped Eshonai’s coup. Here her comet spren will finally chase away the stormspren and bond with her, making her a Willshaper – the first listener KR. (It’s hard to imagine her having a book otherwise…) Rysn. Whether or not Rysn (from Thaylenah) ends up a KR, she will be crucial nonetheless because of her Larkin. If she does become a KR, she will be a Releaser/Dustbringer because she is both astonishingly brave (foolhardy?) and obedient (to a fault). She already has had two Interludes… Ym. Since Ym (from Iri) had the Surge of Progression, I’m not convinced he’s dead. If Jasnah, without that Surge, could survive a stab through the heart, I think someone with that Surge should be able to survive as well. Though he was “killed” with a shardblade, so was Szeth, whom Nale resurrected with a Progression fabrial. Ym might have saved himself with his own Progression Surge. Probably a Truthwatcher. Zahel. As a Returned with Divine Breath and access to the Spiritual Realm, Zahel is an ideal candidate for a Bondsmith. By the time he reaches Urithiru, he may have recovered Nightblood. Nightblood will be ecstatic fighting the Voidbringers – so much evil investiture to consume, so little time…I’ll make a prediction here: Nightblood will be the means of destroying Odium, consuming every last bit of his Shard. I suspect that won’t be in SA though. Axies. I’m not sure whether Axies the Collector will be a KR, but if so, I believe he will also be a Bondsmith. Either way, his knowledge of spren will be enormously valuable to the anti-Odium faction: He will find a way to reverse the effects of Odium’s influence on the listeners who adopted the forms of power. Kaladin/Fleet Will Seek New Stormlight Reserves By the time we reach the last book in the series, the Everstorm survivors will be making their last stand at Urithiru, surrounded by the Voidbringer host. The Everstorm will have caused the near divestiture of all of Roshar’s Stormlight by interfering with the Highstorms. Urithiru’s Stormlight reserves will be almost gone, incapacitating the KR. Things will be looking bad for our heroes… In desperation, Kaladin will use the remaining Stormlight reserves to seek out the Origin. The KR will launch a sortie to distract the Voidbringers. Because Kaladin is Fleet, he will race out of Urithiru and make his escape. But where is the Origin? The Origin Is on One of Roshar’s Moons! I believe Kaladin will find Stormlight on one of Roshar’s moons. Here is a WoB on point: Q: “Do the moons relate to the Highstorms at all?” A: “The moons...at all? Sure! You'll love this. The star's age, at Roshar – Earth astronomers would say that is a star which could not have planets with life on them orbiting it.” I interpret Brandon’s oblique, but pertinent, answer in context to mean that the Stormlight that invests the Highstorms and brings life to Roshar comes from one of the moons. He tells us that Roshar should not have life on it, yet it does. He’s tells us in another WoB that “Stormlight makes plants grow” (written into a fan’s book). And his answer here comes in response to a question about the relationship between Roshar’s moons and Highstorms. Here’s another relevant WoB: Q: “If [a Windrunner had] enough heating fabrials and enough Stormlight, how high up could [he] go?” A: “He could theoretically break orbit if he has Stormlight for air, and he could manipulate gravity. They have actually figured how long it would take to make it to the various moons.” I don’t believe the Sanderson Crew did that calculation just for fun. It has to be relevant to the story line. Peter has said that the moons come very close to Roshar during the night: “Roshar's moons are much much closer than our moon. Their elliptical orbits bring them closer to Roshar's surface during the night…” (For an excellent discussion of the astronomy of the Rosharian moons, check out this thread.) It should take Kaladin about two hours to reach the moon that is the Origin (though it is still unclear which one it is). The Larkin Stores the Stormlight Kaladin will take Rysn’s Larkin with him to the moon, where it will store enormous amounts of Stormlight to bring back. Will this increase the Larkin’s size, perhaps turning it into some kind of Greatshell? Will it be able to fly back itself? Will Rysn give it a name…? (Personally, I like Lex Larkin.) Kaladin may suffer significant damage from his potential over-exposure to the Origin’s Stormlight, perhaps crystallizing him like one of Dalinar’s soulcasters. Syl warned him of Stormlight over-exposure in WoR. I suspect that the Larkin will protect Kaladin by absorbing the excess Stormlight from him. The Duel of Champions With the new Stormlight reserves, the Siege of Urithiru will hold out long enough to persuade Odium to agree to a battle of champions: “Vex Odium, convince him that he can lose, and appoint a champion…” (WoR, p. 76.) Kaladin will go up against something representing Odium, and Kaladin will defeat it. (It wouldn’t be much of a story otherwise…) The good guys win, and hatred is again put back in the bottle Some intriguing questions and observations: As a Son of Honor (a real one, not like Gavilar and Amaram), Kaladin will not cheat during the duel. But his opponent will, perhaps with help from other Voidbringers. Will Kaladin be restricted only to the Windrunner Surges? Will his trip to the Origin change him in any way, allowing him access to other powers or Surges? Can he be given the non-Jezrien Honorblades for other Surges, even if he only uses Syl as his shard-weapon? Will he have enough Stormlight to use them all? The End. Thanks for reading!

Do differing types of Gemstones affect the Surges and KR? Because of the Ten Essences Chart, we know that Each Herald has a specific Gemstone. Jezrien, the Herald-Patron of the Windrunners, has Saphire. So would a Windrunner be able to get more Stormlight out of a Saphire Gem than a Emerald Gem? We know that most of the Fabrials need specific Gemstones, and they Mimic the Surges. Soulcasters do not follow this rule, as they use the gem associated with the essence of what they're making.

Hi, I made a kind of reference document (mostly stuff from the wiki) on Heralds and Surges and chapters (in progress) + some wild guesses, I thought maybe it could be useful to someone: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1R7NoW7vMfWMSezANJ1Me7p4rK72kutmnc5kuMKugqQU/edit?usp=sharing

Just noticed. People noticed in the Surges chart how each order is connected to the one next to it, the one that shared a Surge, but that there were liens to other orders as well. I just noticed something. Lightweavers has a line going to Windrunners, directly opposite from each other on the chart. We have seen a Lightweaver and a Windrunner, two of our first Surgebinders. Couldn't stand each other for the most part, but who knows, maybe a coincidence, though we know for a fact the spren of the two orders dislike each other. Next is Bondsmiths connected with Truthwatchers, also directly opposite from each other. Now, I find it would be a bit of a coincidence that Dalinar, our Bondsmith, happens to have a son who is a Truthwatcher. Perhaps there is something here also, maybe the spren of Truthwatchers don't get along with the Stormfather? I don't know, but I thought it a good idea to point out the relationships there so as to possibly help others with their theories. Let me know your thoughts. Please and thank you.

Theory in brief: There are “fundamental forces” on Roshar that are not surges. I believe the KR will be able to use these forces to defeat Odium. The following quote got me thinking: “[syl] nodded, alighting in the air and settling down, her legs crossed at the knees as if she was primly seating herself in an invisible chair. She continued to hover there, moving exactly in step with him. “’Giving up all pretense of obeying natural laws again, I see,’ [Kaladin] said. “’Natural laws?’ Syl said, finding the concept amusing. “Laws are of men, Kaladin. Nature doesn’t have them! [...] It’s more like…more like an agreement among friends.’” WoR, p. 130 (hardcover). Syl makes this last statement as Kaladin begins his surgebinding education. I immediately thought of Morpheus and Neo in The Matrix. Syl’s teasing tone masks the truth of Roshar: that even the surges themselves are contrivances – “an agreement among friends.” The Ars Arcanum author states in WoR that the “Ten Surges…thought to be the fundamental forces by which the world operates – are more accurately a representation of the ten basic abilities offered to the Heralds, and then the Knights Radiant, by their bonds.” This definition of the surges suggests that Roshar “operates” by fundamental forces in addition to or other than the ten surges. Syl’s light-hearted comment about natural law turns out to be accurate – it IS an “agreement among friends” – the Oathpact itself! The epigraph to WoR Chapter 35 (from the in-world Words of Radiance, chapter 8, page 6) describes that “agreement” as applied to the KR through the Nahel bond: “They also, when they had settled their rulings in the nature of each bond’s placement, called the name of it the Nahel bond, with regard to its effect upon the souls of those caught in its grip; in this description, each was related to the bonds that drive Roshar itself, ten Surges, named in turn and two for each order; in this light, it can be seen that each order would by necessity share one Surge with each of its neighbors.” Note that this agreement limits the surges that any order of KR can bind, but not other forces. Moreover, the statement that each surge “was related to the bonds that drive Roshar itself” suggests that when Adonalsium and/or some or all of the three Shards invested on Roshar, they bound Roshar’s physical phenomenon within certain constraints. [Speculation: Because the Everstorm moves west to east, will it somehow undo “the bonds that drive Roshar”? Will it thus also undo whatever it is that binds Odium to the Rosharian system? Is this what the Everstorm is intended to do, rather than to simply wipe out humanity? And has Odium used the pretext of a Listener triumph over humans as the motivation for them to create the Everstorm? The epigraph to WoR Chapter 89 (emphasis added and reformatted), from the Diagram, says "destroy [the Parshendi] ​outright ​before [​one of them] ​obtains ​their ​power. ​It ​will ​form ​a bridge."] The Ars Arcanum author believes “there should be another series of abilities that is even more esoteric than the Voidbindings. Perhaps the Old Magic fits into those, though I am beginning to suspect that is something entirely different.” What are the implications for Roshar and the war against Odium if there are other fundamental forces than the surges and another “series of abilities” than surge- and voidbinding? Some observations: Nothing in the Nahel bond version of the Oathpact precludes the KR from using non-surge forces. The other “series of abilities” predicted by the Ars Arcanum author may involve these non-surge forces. We don’t yet know either the mechanism or the means or medium of Investiture necessary to access the non-surge forces. Prediction: By Book 10, our SA heroes will discover and find a way to utilize these non-surge forces to win the war against Odium.

Previous commentary has assumed that the Honorblades grant a rightful user the ability to use only the surges associated with the Herald whose Honorblade it is. Szeth’s Honorblade, which most speculate was Jezrien’s, gave Szeth Windrunner powers, but (as far as we know) did not grant him the ability to bind other surges. Is each Herald likewise limited to bind only certain surges, based on their respective Honorblades, or do the Blades grant the Heralds the ability to bind all ten surges? Alternatively, do the Heralds possess some inherent power, either derived off-world (where some in this forum believe the Heralds originated) or imbued as a splinter of Honor’s power? The text supports the theory that the Honorblades granted the Heralds access to all ten surges. Kalak observes in the WoK Prelude that “ [Honorb]lades were weapons of power beyond even Shardblades. They were unique. Precious.” Presumably Kalak meant that Honorblades’ ability to grant surgebinding powers elevated them above Shardblades. It’s odd that Kalak viewed Shardblades as actual weapons. Shouldn’t he have known that they were simply a form taken by each KR’s bonded spren? And, knowing that, shouldn’t he have realized that the nahel bond granted each KR powers equal to an Honorblade? Unless for Heralds the Honorblades, unlike the nahel bond, granted the power to bind all ten surges. When normal humans like Szeth use the Honorblades (assuming one could call Szeth “normal”), they were limited to the surgebinding abilities of the Herald whose blade it was. Ishar feared what might happen if each KR had access to all ten surges: "But as for Ishi’Elin, his was the part most important at their inception; he readily understood the implications of Surges being granted to men, and caused organization to be thrust upon them; as having too great power, he let it be known that he would destroy each and every one, unless they agreed to be bound by precepts and laws.” [“Words of Radiance,” Chapter 2, page 4, emphasis added.] Ishar must have felt that “organization” was necessary to preclude men from rivaling Heralds’ power. Otherwise, why bother? A KR already has power over other men. Ishar’s concern must be for the Heralds. Ishar’s fear was sufficiently great that he would “destroy each and every one” if each individual KR’s surgebinding ability were not limited. To leave even a few KR with the same full abilities as the Heralds would inevitably invite conflict between the KR and the Heralds. It is unclear whether the foregoing epigraph refers to Ishar destroying each Radiant or each spren, since the spren were the basis of the KR’s power. And we have discovered that the spren, like men, also had “precepts and laws.” Further, the antecedents to the various pronouns (“them,” “one,” they”) are equally unclear: the “them” does seem to refer to men, but the “one” and the “they” could refer to either men or spren. From Ishar’s perspective, however, the result would be the same – the KR would cease to exist. That each KR Order chose a “patron” Herald does not undermine this analysis. The epigraph of WoR Chapter 37 (“Words of Radiance” chapter 13, page 1, emphasis added) states: "Now, as each order was thus matched to the nature and temperament of the Herald it named patron, there was none more archetypal of this than the Stonewards who followed after Talenelat'Elin, Stonesinew, Herald of War: they thought it a point of virtue to exemplify resolve, strength, and dependability. Alas, they took less care for imprudent practice of their stubbornness, even in the face of proven error." The choice of patron Herald was based on personality, not surgebinding power. This passage says nothing about Taln’s particular surgebinding abilities. That again suggests that each Herald had the ability to bind all ten surges. It is possible that the Stone Shamans taught Szeth how to use only the Windrunner surges and that humans, if properly taught, could use the Honorblades for all of the surges. That will make Kaladin’s possession of Szeth’s former Honorblade very interesting…unless the Stone Shamans take it from him. I do think Heralds also have inherent power – Taln’s catching the darts with superhuman quickness (assuming it was Taln). But the power to bind all ten surges comes from their Honorblades. I will discuss the use of Honorblades and stormlight, which another thread has already addressed, on another day.

The chart that Issac Stewert created, showing the ten orders of Knights Radiant and the ten surges shows lines connecting the various glyphs. Below I have a picture with the lines highlighted in different colors: Green = Surges for each of the different orders Blue and Orange = A "racetrack" type of organization for Orders and Surges respectively - - (Although, I'm not sure. If that were the case why not keep all the Orders on the outside, and Surges on the inside? If it were rearranged that way it would look like a wheel with the red lines becoming the spokes.) Red = ...No idea. Decoration perhaps? Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Hi all, first post here despite having lurked for a while. After finishing Words of Radiance and reading some theories being thrown around, I got to thinking of how each Surge "manifests", so to speak, and came up with a couple of ideas. 1) Cognitive and Spiritual effects of Surges From Word of Brian and Ars Arcanums (Arcana? Arcani?) from other Cosmere books, we know that forms of Investiture can be primarily Spiritual, Cognitive or Physical, so this line of thought might not even be valid reasoning. While we don't have direct contradiction, however, I will forge ahead. The more explored Surges so far have been the ones that Windrunners and Lightweavers have access to, namely Adhesion, Gravitation, Illumination and Transformation. We've also seen some Progression, a bit of Abrasion and a glimpse of Transportation. There might have been some unnoticed effects of other Surges being used, but I will exclude those from discussion unless they are explicitly shown. There has also been much speculation as to what effects the other Surges can produce. While all of those seem to have their roots in the Spiritual and/or Cognitive Realms, all of their effects seem to happen in the Physical Realm. An example of this would be a form of the Gravitation Surge, the basic Lashing, which changes the spiritual gravitational connection of an object from the planet to some other direction/location. The root of it is in the Spiritual Realm, but the effect is Physical. Now, if you look at something like the Metallic Arts on Scadrial, you will notice things like Soothing and Rioting, storing Identity, Investiture, determination, and several other effects (and stealing all of those) where the manifestation doesn't seem to relate to the Physical Realm. The AonDor system on Sel can be thought of as similar (several Aons have "abstract" meanings, such as Spirit, Love, etc, which wouldn't at first glance, be Physically inclined). Nalthis seems to be a mix, where Breath can grant Investiture to an object and Commands, convey some Cognitive aspect to whatever has been Awakened, which then affects the Physical Realm. Surges seem to be the odd one out, so far. Granted, it's early in the series, but that also allows some speculation on our part. My line of speculation is that at least some Surges have forms that we haven't seen yet, where they affect the Cognitive or Spiritual Realms. It would make a lot of sense, I think, for the Cohesion Surge to have a form where it would function possibly similar to tapping Feruchemical Duralumin, and possibly the Division Surge granting some function similar to storing Feruchemical Duralumin (or maybe the Cohesion Surge can be "reversed" like the Abrasion Surge, to create a bonding or inimical effect between people). From the Words of Radiance (the in-universe book) epigraphs, it seems like Orders such as the Bondsmiths, Elsecallers and Willshapers had administrative, guiding or ruling roles in society, or at least among the Radiants, while Skybreakers were recognizably good at judging. It would also make sense that the specific Surges of certain Orders could help them in their roles, possibly through these Spiritual or Cognitive effects. 2) Surges manifest differently between Orders This is more from a perspective of what seems to make sense, so to speak. Windrunners are purportedly the masters of the sky, flying around and being all comfortable up high. However, from what we see of Kaladin and Szeth, the only Surge they use while flying individually or fighting in the sky is Gravitation, and then only through the basic Lashing. Skybreakers, theoretically, have access to the exact same thing. Why wouldn't they be just as at home in the skies as Windrunners? Obviously the Adhesion Surge could help (decrease air pressure in front of you to fly faster, be less bothered by the wind, not have your skin flayed off by 500kph winds, etc), but that would require the Surge to work in the way we expect, and for Szeth not to be familiar with the more nuanced uses of the Surges outside of the Three Lashings. I recognize that this theory (if it can be called that) is slim, hanging from very few uses of Surges that we have seen, and one point against it is that both Ym and Lift, though being from different Orders, used Progression in the same way (Regrowth, to heal other people). But that can be explained by having adjacent Orders being able to access certain forms of the same Surges equally, but not others (eg, Skybreakers could maybe use a Reverse Lashing but not a basic Lashing). Having an off-topic comment right in the first post feels weird, but I want to make on anyway: haven't seen it mentioned in the forums yet, but my idea for one of the remaining Ideals for the Windrunners: "I will protect people from themselves, when needed." Comments and thoughts are welcomed, as seems to be the norm in these forums. I apologize for any grammatical or spelling mistakes, or oddly structured sentences and paragraphs, I'm not from an English speaking country. Cheers!

Hello, this is my first post here and I've just started diving deep into Sanderson speculation but I wanted to raise the idea that's been kicking around my head as I've seen something multiple times recently: In many places (largely the Coppermind wiki) I have seen statements like the following: "The first Order of the Knights Radiant with the ability to bind Surges gravity and atmospheric pressure. The combination of these two Surges resulted in three separate powers which were known as the Three Lashings.[11]" Is there some confirmation that the combination of the surges is involved in the lashings? The citations on that statement don't support that directly. Physics tells me that changing the direction of gravity for something, making 2 things attracted to each other, and making everything more attracted to a certain object would all just be gravity. Despite that, it seems like most people are assuming that both surges work together to be the lashings. Counter-evidence 1: The other identified proto-Radiants (that's what I'm calling them) have very distinct manifestations of their 2 surges. These examples are from the WoR preview chapters on Tor so I'm putting them in spoiler tags: Counter-evidence 2: Shallan and Jasnah can both Soulcast and it seems very similar for both of them. This suggests that shared surges manifest the same for those who share them (though I won't rule out surges interacting). I think there is very strong evidence that although they may only realize 1 power at first (as some of the examples did), each order had 2 very distinct powers. Implications: Kaladin has another yet undiscovered power. Logically I would expect atmospheric pressure to affect the weather. It's easy to imagine it could create wind (hence windrunners). Kaladin's vision of riding the storm (and conversation with the Stormfather/Voice in the highstorm) could be related to windrunning. It seems like most orders are named after 1 of their powers and nothing Kaladin has actually done yet really relates to wind. Szeth (who has no spren) might have only 1 surge. Since his power doesn't come from the usual source maybe he isn't from an order and he doesn't have 2 surges. This would flow with the theory that Cultivation can grant surges but not as well just as Ruin and Preservation could imperfectly power their opposite's metallic art. Even if Szeth does have 2 surges the other one could be different from Kaladin's making him I think a Bondsmith. But I'm really not

(Note: This post mentions Surges that were revealed by Brandon in interviews, and are not found in the Way of Kings. These will be in a Spoiler tag, just in case you don't want to know them yet.) One thing I've noticed for a long time is that each Essence has two Divine Attributes associated with it, just as each Order of Knights Radiant has access to two Surges. I've always felt that these two things, the Attributes and the Surges, can be connected somehow, but at the same time it had always felt impossible. For one thing, there are twenty Attributes and only ten Surges. Also, each Essence has a Primary Attribute and a Secondary Attribute, but there is no apparent indication that the Orders have a primary Surge and a secondary Surge. I've decided to take on the impossible task of connecting the Attributes and the Surges. Allow me to describe my little adventure in minute detail. First of all, I realized that if I could somehow connect the Primary Attribute of an Essence with the Secondary Attribute of the previous Essence, and do it for all the Essences, I would cut the number of Attributes in half. There'd be ten Attributes, which might then be correlated to the ten Surges. If a Surge correlates to an Essence's Primary Attribute, it would suggest that Orders have a Primary Surge. Here is my attempt: Zephyr 1 & Sinew 2: Protecting and Guiding -> Boundary A protector keeps boundaries from being breached. A guide indicates where boundaries are. Vapor 1 & Zephyr 2: Just and Leading -> Law Being just means upholding the law. Being a leader means your word is law. Spark 1 & Vapor 2: Brave and Confident -> Choice A brave man acts fearlessly on his choices. A confident man doesn't doubt his choices. Lucentia 1 & Spark 2: Loving and Obedient -> Affinity You have an affinity with what you care about. You have an affinity to what you follow. Pulp 1 & Lucentia 2: Learned and Healing -> Improvement Learning improves knowledge. Healing improves health. Blood 1 & Pulp 2: Creative and Giving -> Openness You cannot be called creative until you express your new ideas. You cannot be called giving until you share your property. Tallow 1 & Blood 2: Wise and Honest -> Truth Wisdom is the understanding of truth. Honesty is the expression of truth. Foil 1 & Tallow 2: Resolute and Careful -> Direction A resolute person never changes the direction of he has set for himself. A careful person keeps track of the direction he is going. Talus 1 & Foil 2: Dependable and Builder -> Trust People trust that a person known for dependability will perform his task. People trust that a known builder will create structures that last. Sinew 1 & Talus 2: Pious and Resourceful -> Contentment A pious person humbly accepts whatever his religious vocation may be. A resourceful person can work with whatever limited resources he has. How did I do? Feel free to make suggestions or corrections. Anyway, given that I now had ten Divine Attributes instead of twenty, the next step was to try and connect them to the Surges, but here I encountered another setback: it didn't make much sense. How does Boundary become Pressure? How does Truth become Transformation? It was apparent that I was still missing something. Running out of ideas, I decided to arrange my ten Attributes into the Double Eye pattern, with Boundary on the top right, Openness on the bottom left, etc., connecting each of them as the Orders themselves are connected in the Knights Radiant Chart. Then I looked for patterns in the connections. Vertical Pairs: Boundary<->Affinity Improvement<->Contentment Trust<->Openness Diagonal Pairs: Boundary<->Openness Law<->Truth Choice<->Direction Affinity<->Trust I noticed that the three vertical pairs have a cause and effect relationship. Being inside a boundary naturally gives you affinity to it and everything else inside it. Achieving improvement in a desired area naturally leads to contentment. Trusting people naturally leads to opening up to them. On the other hand, the diagonal pairs have more of a balancing relationship to them (e.g. boundaries balance openness, etc.). What's interesting is that Improvement causes Contentment as well as balances it, because it's possible to be content with low improvement, or never being content with any improvement, both scenarios being sub-optimal. This makes the Improvement<->Contentment pair the fifth balancing pair as well as the second cause-and-effect pair, which sort of makes it stand out (which is cool because it's at the center of the chart, after all). Anyway, I started thinking about the importance of balancing each Attribute, like how people should open up their boundaries and let others in sometimes to keep from going crazy, and I was about to drift off further into philosophical territory, when I realized something: Letting something through a boundary sounds very much like the concept of pressure release. I had just discovered how to derive the ten Surges. The five balancing pairs were the key. I realized that if you think about how each pair is balanced, especially in the context of the Rosharian environment, then with just a bit of creativity you will end up with the Surges. For those who only know about the Pressure, Gravitation, and Transformation Surges and who do not want to get spoiled, please don't click this: Edit: Added an actual Double Eye of the Almighty diagram of my ten Attributes. Edit: Replaced Stability with Direction, as suggested by beef man. Edit: Revised the section on Surges in light of the new Ars Arcanum Surges list and new WoB about the Order positions (I got my Surge prediction wrong, but the idea is close enough for the theory to still be valid). Also, replaced Motion with Choice since that made things less convoluted.

I was re-reading the Ars Arcanum the other day, particularly the section about fabrials, when I re-stumbled upon this part about Spanreeds: We're all probably aware of spanreeds at this point, but recent information we've gotten about Words of Radiance have led me to re-analyze the words I quoted above, as well as the rest of "On the Creation of Fabrials". We know that the fabrials are another way to access the Surges apart from Surgebinding or Voidbinding, and we also know that Soulcaster fabrials in particular mimicked the Soulcasting ability of some Lightweavers and Elsecallers, so I believe that studying the fabrials (their effects, the gemstones they use, etc.) would let us gain insight into how the different Knights Radiant used their Surges. Table of Contents Part I: Pairing Fabrials and the Table of Gemstone Pairs Part II: Altering Fabrials Part III: Warning Fabrials Conclusion: How to Create a Fabrial Part I: Pairing Fabrials and the Table of Gemstone Pairs Let's consider the Ruby gemstone, associated with both conjoiner fabrials and the Order of Dustbringers. The interesting thing about conjoiners is that even though the original ruby has been halved into two separate ruby pieces, they still act as one. In Surgebinding and Realmatic terms, the effect of the Division Surge on those two ruby halves is significantly decreased. Reducing division increases unity. Now check out this relevant tidbit from Dalinar's Purelake vision: Some people have already speculated that the Knight Radiant in that vision was a Dustbringer (Surges: Division and Friction), and that she was somehow making the non-KR soldiers glow with Stormlight. The other theory was that the soldiers were non-KR Surgebinders who just so happened to take in Stormlight at the same time. But if we assume that Conjoiners actually mimic one aspect of Dustbringers, then one very neat solution presents itself: The Dustbringer was manipulating the Surge of Division. Specifically, she was decreasing the spiritual division between herself and her soldiers, giving all of them some level of spiritual synchronization. If Parshendi could perform supernaturally synchronized feats (which probably use the Division Surge somehow as well), wouldn't it be awesome if the Dustbringers of old (and maybe even Skybreakers) could do the same? But how about Reversers? They also seem to manipulate Division, increasing the division between objects. In the vision, the Knight could run through water with "uncanny ease". I'm betting that she did it by increasing her own Division from the water, making herself "more separate" from it, so that to her the water no longer interacted with her feet, allowing her to run as if the water wasn't there. Increasing and decreasing Division, two ways of manipulating the same Surge, performed by the same Knight Radiant. Pretty impressive for a vision scene, eh? Back to fabrials, why do Reversers use Amethyst instead of Ruby, if Ruby is the Dustbringer gemstone? If you look at the Knights Radiant chart, Ruby and Amethyst are actually connected to each other, and they are on opposite sides of the chart. This could indicate that every gemstone has a designated partner, one that has a reverse effect when manipulating a particular Surge. One gemstone decreases ("Pulls"?) the influence of a Surge, while its opposite gemstone increases ("Pushes"?) it. Also, the fact that Ruby fabrials can manipulate Division, while Smokestone ones cannot so far as we know (even though Skybreakers can supposedly manipulate Division), suggests that each Order has a primary Surge (despite being able to bind two Surges). Edit: Here's a more thorough theory on why an Order must have a Primary Surge (the Surges are to KR Orders as the Attributes are to Essences). Given all these things, I made a table showing each Order, their Primary Surge, and those Surges' "pulling" and "pushing" gemstones (pardon the Allomantic terminology), or gemstone pairs: Order# | Essence | Order Name | Primary Surge | Surge-"Pulling" Gemstone | Surge-"Pushing" Gemstone Jez | Zephyr | Windrunners | Pressure | Sapphire | Garnet? Nan | Vapor | Skybreakers | Gravitation | Smokestone | Zircon Chach | Spark | Dustbringers | Division | Ruby | Amethyst Vev | Lucentia | Edgedancers | Friction | Diamond | Topaz? Palah | Pulp | Truthwatchers | Growth | Emerald | Heliodor Shash | Blood | Lightweavers | Illumination | Garnet | Sapphire? Betab | Tallow | Elsecallers | Transformation | Zircon | Smokestone Kak | Foil | Willshapers | Transportation | Amethyst | Ruby Tanat | Talus | Stonewards | Cohesion | Topaz | Diamond? Ishi | Sinew | Bondsmiths | Tension | Heliodor | Emerald As you can see, there are still unknowns and uncertainties. For one, we don't even know what kind of spren need to be trapped for a fabrial to access a particular Surge. And we don't know what the extra connections between Sapphire, Diamond, Garnet, and Topaz are supposed to mean in terms of fabrial creation. But there are a number of interesting things as well. For example, notice that the Surge-"Pushing" Gemstone for Transformation is apparently Smokestone. Well! Jasnah's Soulcaster fabrial may be fake, but she probably at least made it look believable, so we can bet that those rare multi-function Soulcaster fabrials that Shallan talked about have Smokestone in them, and now we know why! Perhaps the other Soulcaster fabrials with limited functionality use Zircon instead? If not, what could a Transformation-"pulling" effect look like? What other interesting things can you find in my table of Fabrial pairs? Which types of fabrial do you think should be discovered next? I hope to post the second and third parts of my General Fabrial Theory by the end of the week. In the meantime, feel free to discuss!

I was just thinking that is it a shame no order has the two surges: Light and Surface Tension. You know where I am going with this.... LIGHTSABERS BABY! What other cool combos of surges can you think of...

I've been trying to search just to make sure if anyone has brought this up yet, but I haven't seen anything. If someone has, I'd love a link to the topic. I want to point out that I only just discovered this wonderful website this past week. I've been reading/gobbling up all the theories and WoB voraciously, but I obviously haven't read everything yet. Still, it was bugging me that I noticed this and hadn't seen anything about it, so I'm going to post it. I don't have the annotations for all of the information, although I know for sure that I've read them in the past few days. Please forgive my lack of evidence for some statements. I was looking at a picture of the colored front page of TWoK that shows the 10 surges/Heralds and their faces and symbols, along with the odd dragonwasp-things. (I found an image via Google here: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121114044819/stormlightarchive/images/c/c7/Knights_Radiant_and_the_ten_Surges.jpg). I was already beginning to think that the ten heralds and the KR and the different surges can probably be further categorized because of Navani's notes (http://coppermind.net/w/images/Navani2.jpg). The bottom image labels each of the ten jewels in the double-pupil (I forget the proper name for that formation, and surprisingly Coppermind doesn't have it listed that I can find), and I noticed that the top are all related to love while the bottom are all related to hate. Also, it seems the ones on the left are somehow related and the same for the ones on the right. The jewel placement obviously lines up with the Heralds' symbols in the first image from the front inside cover. I noticed that each of the symbols of the surges line up with a face on the outline (I'm sure people have noticed this) and also that each of the KR order symbols on the inside (they have to be) have lines connected to two of the surges, which makes sense since the different orders were said to be able to access two kinds of magic, correct? I don't have an annotation for this one, but I'm sure I read that. The one in the upper right hand corner is Jezrien 1) because the face is of a man with a crown and 2) the surge symbol associated with him is part of the symbol for Jezrien's shardblade. This got me to wondering how each of the 10 surges may be similarly related/categorized. Each of the surges also has a line that connects it to the one directly across from it, so Jez's surge symbol is connected by a line to the surge in the bottom left corner, etc. Each connection is between one man and one woman, meaning that the Heralds had 5 men and 5 women. I was looking at them all and realized that the top half is all men and the bottom half is all women (also can't help wondering if Navani's image has them switched/upsidedown, since I would associate women with love and men with hate, or even if Navani has general terms that are only partially correct). But then I realized that the categorization is very similar to the table of Allomantic Metals. Each of those are categorized, and are put into four quadrants in a similar way that the surges/jewels seem to logically be divided into four quadrants (http://images.wikia.com/mistborn/images/0/04/Table_of_Allomantic_metals.jpg). Could this possibly be a connection between the magic systems? Also, it really bothered me when I realized that Kaladin's symbol (seen on the big image here: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/3091-not-a-herald/) looks like either Lerasium's or Zinc's Allomatic symbol (especially Zinc's). Is this just a coincidence? Especially because Zinc is in the upper right-hand corner of the Allomatic table, just as Jezrien's surge is... I'm less convinced about the Kaladin connection than I am with the connection between the two charts. Also, perhaps this is somewhat off-topic and maybe has even been discussed, but do the Allomatic symbols seem to have spikes driven through them? Are the symbols actually some sort of Hemalurgic guide to illustrate the type and placement of spikes in order to extract that particular ability?