Search the Community

So we are 3 books into the Stormlight Archives and we have multiple magic users. Good so far. Yet all of our new Surgebinders are different than what we've been led to believe they were in the past. Dalinar has a power boost from his Bondsmith spren because it holds Honor's Cognitive Shadow. Kaladin and Jasnah bonded spren that went against the orders of their societies. Shallan broke and rebonded her spren. Timbre bonded an entirely different species. Renarin's Glys is corrupted, Lyft is a half-spren, Malata and Spark hold power granted by Honor and is working directly against his remnants. Szeth belongs to an Order that never disbanded so his bond should be typical, yet he wields a robot spren as an add on to his powers or so it seems. I brought up these examples to raise a few questions. One, Have we been misled as far as what we've been told the Radiants used to be? Edgedancers are supposed to be elegant but Lyft belongs. That's just the most blatant example. Are our new Radiants closer to the Ideal or were the pre-Recreance Radiants just as screwed up as our current crop? Next, should we expect any Radiants introduced from now on to be screwy or will the behavior of the orders even out as their ranks fill back up? One more. I presume that the Radiants present at the Avengers Assemble moment at Thaylen City will be the leaders of their respective Orders. At least that's how they've been presented so far. So will their idiosyncrasies influence how the Orders will conduct themselves moving forward or will they change to conform to the way their Orders were traditionally viewed? These are just questions I've thought about. I haven't truly attempted to answer them but if anyone wants to take a crack at it feel free. Also, if the post raises further questions please share.

There's a post on here that grew to massive proportions in a relatively short time, Jasnah v. Kaladin. It basically devolved (or evolved depending) into a conversation of which character could checkmate the other and how. Ranette, for those who don't remember, is Wax's favorite gunsmith in Mistborn Era 2. The character as a whole is amazing, but the attribute that's germane for this particular discussion is designing weapons to both take advantage of Wax's abilities and negate powered opponent's advantages. The hazekiller round series. I believe that there will be a hazekiller division focusing on Surgebinders on Roshar at some point. Ranette would be a great resource in this. Imagine her and Navani brainstorming on weapons design. Awesomesauce. So if this meeting were to happen in an alternate Cosmere timeline and Ranette was brought up to speed on Surgebinder abilities, what kind of weapons do you think she'd craft? And bonus question, what sort of spren would she draw?

I was reading the article on the coppermind about the Dawnchant and this quote caught my attention: "They came from another world. Using powers that we have been forbidden to touch. Dangerous powers, of spren and Surges. They destroyed their lands and have come to us begging." Notice that the Singer writing this mentions another world (Ashlyn) and Destroyed lands. This leads me to believe that the humans took over Shinovar first. But some sort of ecological disaster caused them to go to the native Singer population and ask for more land. This might also explain why the Shin look so distinctive, they are the humans that stayed in Shinovar and where changed by the disaster that happened there. We also know that spren are rare in Shinovar, that would suggest that the cognitive realm is different there compared to the rest of Roshar. The powers of spren and surges mentioned might include abilities that warp the cognitive realm and make it hard or impossible for most spren to manifest in Shinovar. What ever was unleashed may have restructured the boundary between Shadesmar and the Physical realm in such a way that it distanced them or created a Sel like environment that is hostile to life. This is supported by Shinovar being the region of Roshar closest to Sel on the map. That region of the Cognitive Realm sea is called the Sea of Regrets, which is also evidence the something bad once happened there. I think that we will soon find out what caused those names and why Shinovar is so different from the rest of Roshar.

Ok. We know that KR are a participant in a mixed magic system. They all are a mix of Honor and Cultivation, some like Windrunner leaning more towards Honor and others like Edgedancer come down more on Cultivation side. Yet they are all fueled by Honor's Investiture, Stormlight. That makes sense because it's easy as hell to obtain. But it has been confirmed that Cultivation has her own Stormlight analog, though its official name has yet to be canonized. The question is simple. Can Cultivation fuel Surgebinding? And if so, is it more efficient or less efficient than Stormlight?

We know that humans from the Rosharan system came to Roshar from Ashyn. When they did so, they brought odium with them. They also brought surgebinding, as mentioned in the Aila Stele. But radiants and surgebinders as we saw them are a result of bonding spren of honour and cultivation, where the fused utilise voidbinding by bonding with spren of odium. So basically, would it not make sense that surgebinders on Ashyn were more like the fused in that they use voidlight and voidbinding as granted them by odium? This would then discount concerns about radiants destroying roshar because it's surgebinding granted by powers not prone to deatruction as odium is. I welcome any input.

Willshapers have Transportation and Cohesion. We've got one major character with Transportation already, but we haven't seen her do anything with it except go to Shadesmar, which is handy, but doesn't seem likely to be all it does. We haven't seen anybody use Cohesion as far as I know, except maybe in a vision once, but I think that was in Oathbringer so I won't go further. So we don't really know what either of their Surges do, and we have even less idea what their synergy effect will be, but I'm hoping for teleportation (Trek style, where you disassemble and reassemble at the destination).

So this thought was kindled by an off handed comment on the shardcast, and so I ask here after some thinking. Can a radiant become a savant in a particular surge? Or perhaps even to stormlight in general? we understand from Mistborn that savantism is the almost rewriting/overwriting of your sDNA to be 'this particular way now' as being more attuned to a particular power, so would a radiant who is using their powers a lot become a savant? Does stormlight's healing abilities simply restore you to your sDNA perceptions before you can become a savant? I welcome your input.

We know what most of the Surges of the Knights Radiant do, but we don't know the abilities that the Surges Cohesion and Tension grant. The WoR Ars Arcanum speaks of the "Strong and Weak Axial Interconnection", but what are these? After looking at the Wikipedia page for Cohesion, I have realized just how powerful the Surges of Cohesion and Tension may be; Cohesion is the property of like molecules sticking together. Cohesion is what holds a solid together, and what gives water its surface tension. With the ability to manipulate cohesion, these are some of what a Surgebinder might be able to do: Tension: Walk on water by drastically increasing its surface tension. Tension: Solidify air by increasing the attraction between its molecules. Cohesion: Vaporize people and objects by removing all Cohesion between their molecules. Cohesion: Use any sword as a Shardblade by weakening the Cohesion of molecules around the blade. Basically, a Surgebinder wielding Cohesion could melt or vaporize any object without changing its temperature, by decreasing molecular cohesion. This could be very useful in a fight as you could simply dissolve your opponents or their weapons. Tension, on the other hand, increases molecular cohesion, so it could be used to solidify objects. Please post replies of what you think that Cohesion does!

If each type of fused has access to one surge and there are only nine types of fused, then the fused don't have access to all ten surges. (There might be some end around... Yelig-nar) Which surge? What are the implications? How can the knights radiant use that? Definately not - gravitation, illumination, abrasion Probably not - progression (saw fused regrow), transportation (saw fused in shadesmar), division (saw an extra toasty aimian in a flashback, plus I don't see odium missing out on this one) Possibly - transformation, adhesion, cohesion, tension. My guess here is cohesion or transformation. Possibly they use transformation when they change forms, but cant use it in the conventional soulcasting way. Possibly cohesion is used to create thunderclasts, making them a strange non-fused type of fused. Thoughts, ideas, any way to rule a surge out or in?

Does any one know which surges use more stormlight and which ones use less? Is an Elsecaller more efficient than a Windrunner or does a Dustbringer use more stormlight than a Lightweaver? How does each surges use of stormlight compare between members of different orders of the same oath level? Does a 3rd Oath Windrunner need more Stormlight than a 3rd Oath Edgedancer?

Ok, I am new to the site, so please be semi gentle, still getting used to things on this site. I had a question about Investiture. If you are a Misting or Mistborn for example and you found yourself off Scadrial and on Roshar. If you had vials of Allomantic metals, could you still burn your metals and it would work as if you were on Scadrial? Or would stormlight interfere with that? Or would the shards on the planet interfere with one's Investiture? Like would Cultivation for example recognize the shardic influence on the "foreign" Investiture? Boy I hope this question makes sense! Thank you everyone!

Hey team, I apologise in advance if this post isn't particularly well laid out - I have little time at the moment and a thought just struck me so I wanted to get it down before I forget about it, and I don't know if this has been discussed before or already theorized (I had a quick look and couldn't find a mention of it). I agree with @Calderis that there are three specific magic systems that operate in three different ways. I also agree that the fused have not been Voidbinding currently. Essentially the theory is that how magic on Roshar works is that: A) Surgebinding is the system of magic through which the fundamental forces of nature are manipulated through the filter of Honor and Cultivation Fabrials is the system of magic through which these forces of nature can be trapped, stored and then used (this one I am less confident about and would be interested C) Voidbinding is the system of magic through which the fundamental forces of nature are manipulated through the filter of odium. This, especially the Voidbinding postulation, I base on the WOB below. Linked to this, if we consider that Voidbinding is the accessing of the fundamental laws of creation and forces (as per the quote) through Odium, then because humans were originally of odium, and we know that they destroyed their previous home, I believe that humans used Voidbinding to destroy Ashyn. This fundamentally would suggest that humans were the original Voidbinders. This would also tie in nicely to them being the Voidbringers. So to conclude quickly: Voidbinding is the accessing of the forces of creation through the filter of odium and humans were the original voidbinders who used voidbinding to destroy Ashyn.

One of the examples given for how Cohesion could be used is that the user could leave his handprint in a table. This could presumably affect the living. But could this affect shardplate or blade?

There are 45 possible combinations of Surges, 35 of which aren't actually canon. Out of those, which do you think are coolest?

I've been thinking about the physics and realmatics of soulcasting. We have seen quite a bit of it on screen, but there are, of course, still mysteries. Going down the soulcasting rabbit-hole, I came across the following WoB: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/105-17th-shard-forum-qa/#e1139 Unfortunately, this seems to disagree with the canonical description of soulcasting. I imagine Brandon said this because in general he likes to preserve the laws of physics. (In this case the conservation of mass.) But how does mass conserving soulcasting contradict canonical soulcasting: 1) Soulcasting is shape preserving. We have seen this in every case where it is possible to see the shape of both the original object and the soulcast object. However, not only is it shape preserving, soulcasting also seems to be volume preserving. We have never seen a soulcast object, when soulcast into a denser material, shrink. This would be a very visible effect. It looks like marble has a density of about 2.7 g/mL. A human body has a density(if we include the air filled lungs) a little less than water, so let's call it 1 g/mL. If soulcasting conserved mass, a body soulcast to marble would shrink in volume by about 63%. This would cause a 6 ft. man to become a 4' 4" statue. 2) If soulcasting conserved mass, soulcasting to a lighter density material would cause catatrophic explosions. The analysis would be easier if she had soulcast it to air, but let us consider the example of Jasnah soulcasting the boulder to smoke. The smoke floated upward so it is less dense than the surrounding air. It looks like air at Standard temperature and pressure is about 1.3e-3 g/mL. If the boulder was 1m diameter sphere (This is being generous, it was likely much larger), it would have a mass of about 1.4 million grams of 1400 kg (using the density of marble as above). If soulcasting conserved mass, this would result in smoke that really wants to occupy about 1 million liters. To put that in D&D terms, that is 307 5ftx5ftx5ft cubes. Upon being soulcast the smoke would initially be at a pressure of 770 atms. A rough estimate would put the resulting expansion of the smoke at the equivalent of 55 lbs of TNT. (This last figure is very detail dependent and it is possible that I made some mistakes in the calculation. To make the conversion to equivalent pounds of TNT, I referenced http://ftp.feq.ufu.br/Luis_Claudio/Segurança/Safety/GUIDELINES_Chemical_Process_Quantitative_Risk_Analysis/0720X_02e.pdf) My conclusion? Soulcasting doesn't preserve mass, it preserves volume. Breaking conservation of mass is always problematic if you want to have physics behave in any way like we are used to, but I have some realmatic thoughts about that that I will share soon. I think that you can avoid the troubles associated with non-conservation of mass in a realmatic way.

Just finished OB and haven’t gone through all the posts here, so maybe it’s been addressed... but... In the Ars Arcanum section on Windrunning, Khriss writes about the Lashings: It seems pretty clear that this tells us how at least one form of surgebinding can mess up the physics of a planet, and if adhesion manipulates airpressure (rather than friction, for example) then accumulative perturbations in air pressure would certainly have the potential to make things wonky, planetwide. Especially if there were squires and such on Ashyn. Pretty sure 1000s - 10,000s of windrunners could mess some stuff up real bad. But I’m no physicist, and so I can’t develop the theory much farther than that though :/ I think this is a pretty obvious clue, and so probably has been discussed, if anyone can point me in that direction But maybe not. Any thoughts or discussion on how the other surges (like scary-arse division) work? I mean if Division nullifies (one or more types of) molecular bonds, or even (sweet jeezus) quantum forces... yikes. I remember a neat theory about Lightweavers possibly being able to manipulate microwaves and EM radiation in general. I think Rushu and other scholars will become more prominent characters going forward, as/if the ramifications of surgebinding become a bigger part of the plot line Anyway, clearly this has been made into a problem that the KR will have to resolve in some way. Lol... maybe “Unite Them” applies to both (all three?) means of surgebinding, and that somehow balances the effects on planetary physics... it seems that Unite Them applies to just about everything anyway xD..

This will be a brief theory, because mostly I just want to open up discussion on the topic. Most of the surges we have seen have... Fairly broad spheres of influence. The surge of illumination doesn't just deal with controlling light in a few limited ways, it even extends to controlling sound. So, lets look at the three lashings. The two most useful lashings in my opinion, first and third, come from the surge of gravitation. We can see that within reasonable limits, someone with the surge of gravitation can control the effects of gravity. That all seems to line up. But lets look at windrunners' second surge, adhesion. Its sort of useful, but compared to any of the other surges, it feels as if it should be able to do more than just stick rocks together. Technically, the surge of adhesion includes all kinds of atmospheric pressure. Atmospheric pressure can do a lot more than hold things together... So... I predict that the surge of adhesion can do more things than Kaladin or Szeth were aware of. The original order of windrunners might not even have been aware of these additional powers. This, I suspect, also lines up a little bit with Sanderson's writing style. Magic is never something set in stone, people are figuring out how it works during the books. This is evident with allomancy, in how people were confused about how many metals there were, learning new metals, and wondering how atium fits in with the others.

Ok so I have a couple theories on some of the things that Division can do in the Stormlight Archive. •Rot: someone using Division could theoretically cause something to rot, mold and die. •Blasts of Stormlight: similar to how Kaladin fire blasts of adhesive Stormlight that causes people and things to stick to it, a Skybreaker/Dustbringer can in theory fire blasts of Stormlight that burn through any thing or person that it touches.

So just a simple discussion on which characters that are in Roshar and don't have a spren, or Off-Roshar and what order of the knights of radiant would they be in? I'll start you off; Wax: Skybreakers, pretty simple, either that or Windrunners. TLR: I have to say Bondsmith, he does unite all of scadrial, in a way, but how OP would he be if he was a bondsmith AND a lerasium fullborn... Raoden: Edgedancer, if you look at the oaths, it becomes pretty apparent. now it's your turn!

I finished Oathbringer last night, and few choice quotes sprang out at me while reading. With some recent threads as jumping off points, I decided that we need to fundamentally reassess how we view the nature of the Surges, Surgebinders, and their placement within the Double Eye of the Almighty. The ten Surges we are familiar with reflect fundamental forces of the universe. Khriss, writing in "The Rosharan System" (Arcanum Unbounded hardback, p. 535), states: My contention is that while we have mostly been shown the Surges being applied in the Physical Realm, they each have powers and applications that are unique to the Cognitive and Spiritual Realms, as well. There is precedent for this within the Cosmere, as each of the Allomantic and Feruchemical metals can be categorized according to its effects on the Physical, Cognitive, or Spiritual aspects of the user/target: Iron, Steel, Tin, and Pewter are Physical; Zinc, Brass, Copper, and Bronze are Cognitive; and Chromium, Nicrosil, Aluminum, and Duralumin are Spiritual. There is a fourth category that may overlap here, but which feels like an artifact of Scadrial's system being dependent on the number sixteen -- sixteen Shards with sixteen Intents, sixteen allomantic metals, etc. Dividing that number into four groups of four is nice and tidy, and makes numerological sense in a way that they don't on Roshar, where Three, Nine, and Ten (especially) are given precedence. But I digress. While speaking to Dalinar in OB, chapter 65, the Stormfather says the following: We have, at this point, seen multiple Physical uses of adhesion -- in WoK, Kaladin scales a chasm wall by adhering stones to the surface and using them as handholds; in OB, Dalinar similarly uses a spray of Stormlight against a wall to adhere a chair to its surface and climb into a ventilation shaft. We're familiar with this usage. What we have yet to see until this scene is this specific naming convention (Spiritual Adhesion), and the revelation of a new set of abilities that applies to a person's Spiritual aspect. I think the existence of “Spiritual Adhesion” indicates that what we’ve seen before is “Physical Adhesion,” and implies that we may also see “Cognitive Adhesion.” If each of these abilities is different, it may imply why we seem to see a degree of fluidity in how Orders who share Surges utilize those Surges: if Jasnah and Shallan both utilize Transformation, but Jasnah excels at Physical Transformation and Shallan at Spiritual Transformation, then their approach may be completely different (and may lead to the development of different resonances as well). What appears to be certain characters' penchants for particular facets of their abilities may not just be a quirk of that character, but may be a fundamental aspect of their Order as well. Below, I will list the three Realmatic variations of each Surge, as well as my best guess for how they function. Note that the following are merely some possible expressions of those powers, and not the only possible applications of the Surges in each realm. That is, Spiritual Adhesion has been depicted as being used to share language, but it could be possible to use Adhesion on the Spiritual plane for other, similar effects. Adhesion Physical: Stick two objects together Cognitive: Make lots of disparate people start to view themselves as a group? Whatever Dalinar did at Thaylenah to bring the buildings back together (but that might be Tension). Spiritual: Create a connection to another person’s Spirit, so that you can comprehend their language. Gravitation Physical: Basic and Reverse Lashings. Cognitive: Spiritual: Division Abrasion Physical: Change the strength of friction between two objects Cognitive: Spiritual: Transportation Progression Physical: accelerate the growth of plants Cognitive: heals a person’s body so that it matches their own Cognitive Ideal of themselves Spiritual: Illumination Physical: Create complex illusions, using a Memory as a base, and the manipulation of the electromagnetic field. Cognitive: Spiritual: Remotely view events happening around Roshar (Shallan sketches an image of Szeth’s assassination of the King of Jah Keved, an image depicting “...a lavish room with a thick, ornamented rug, swords on the walls. A long dining table, set with a half eaten meal. And a dead man in fine clothing, laying face-first on the floor, blood pooling around him.”) This is presumably where the “Watch” in Truthwatcher comes from as well. (Spiritual) Transformation Physical: Utilize Stormlight to transform the spren of an object into another object (Soulcasting) Cognitive: Manipulate the spren of an object and force it to appear in the Cognitive Realm (Manifesting) Spiritual: Transform a person by giving them aspects of their most idealized Spiritual form. (No name, but performed by Shallan multiple times in WoR). Transportation Cohesion Tension Physical: Cognitive: Whatever Dalinar did at Thaylenah to bring the buildings back together (but that might be Adhesion). Obviously there are a lot of blank spots in the list. Part of that is that we haven’t been granted a viewpoint from a representative of each Order using their own abilities. The other is that some of these abilities are probably mislabeled, or are just Resonances (as opposed to being a direct result of using a Surge). What do you think.

This topic’s called Consequences of Honor, but I think we should really be looking at the consequences of a lack of honor. Well, a lack of Honor. Let me explain. We all know that Honor was splintered, and that Honor used to have certain ‘checks’ on Surgebinding. These checks, along with Honor himself, are gone after the Splintering. What were these checks, though? I think we may have already seen a few things Honor might not have wanted to happen. Example 1: Kaladin and his magical highstorm-stopping wall. We’ve theorized that this was a use of his Adhesion Surge, maniplulating pressure to divert the highstorm around himself. I do think that is probably true, but the important thing that I noticed was that Syl had never heard of anyone doing that before. It’s a new, scarily powerful thing. Example 2: Unity. Dalinar’s moment of Ascension was awesome, and true, it’s most likely due to his bonding a big piece of Honor’s power, but that doesn’t mean it’s not dangerous. Having a Perpendicularity on call? That’s scary. Example 3: Shallan’s Lightweaved army. She’s still only at her 4th Oath, as far as we know, and it’s surprising she was able to summon that ridiculous number of illusions out of nowhere. It’s a huge power boost from what she used to be at. Also, I’d like to talk about how her illusions had mass, and splattered illusions of blood, too, even though she’s not at all practiced with Soulcasting, which is what she assumed was going on. There might be other examples that I missed, or there might be perfectly reasonable ideas for why these types of powers seem to be new, surprisingly powerful manifestations of Surgebinding. I invite you all to try and tear my theory apart!

Greetings everyone, I have a theory that possibly explains what Voidbinding is and how it relates to Surgebinding and Sja-anat. Note that there are still many uncertainties when it comes to this topic, so a lot of this will be speculation on my part. Feel free to agree or disagree as you please. Also, if I am stealing someone's idea from another thread, I am sorry. First off, This theory is based largely on the fact that the ten surges are divided into the three realms, as suggested by the Stormfather to Dalinar. Next, I would like to direct our attention to a few of the recent discussions around Surgebinding and Voidbinding(Spoiler tag for length). All credit to those who participated in these threads for the wonderful ideas they came up with. From these discussions we come to a particularly interesting idea and the one that I think makes the most sense. Renarin, as a corrupted Truthwatcher, has access to one "Voidsurge". The surge of Spiritual Illumination, which lets him see the future. I think that Renarin is using this surge, instead of a resonance, for the following reasons: 1) Resonance as not actually been solidly defined in the canon as of yet and we have never had one of our Knight's even mention it. So, I am hesitant to place too much relevance into them. 2) Nightform is known for its ability to see the future. The fact that Renarin's resonance just happens to be the same as Nightform's ressonance/surge seems extremely unlikely. it's more likely IMO that they simply have the same surge. 3) No resonance has been as incredibly powerful as storming future sight. 4) Surges can be used without explicitly meaning to use them as well as resonances. Kaladin on bridge runs for example. So, I am fairly confident that he is using a surge, and the best fit for future sight is Spiritual Illumination for obvious reasons. So far I haven't really said anything that some else hasn't said before and in a more concise manner, but here is where it really gets crazy. My hypothesis is that Surgebinding and Voidbinding are actually the same exact system, but with access to different realmatic surges, with one realm spanning both Surgebinding and Voidbinding per surge. And, that Sja-anat has the ability to change a spren's surge's from one realm to another. First lets focus on Sja-anat. We have only seen Sja's corruption effect on two spren. The oathgate spren and Glys. I have already given most of my case for Glys above, but I will expand it a little further here. People on the forums have noticed that some order of Knights seem to have an affinity for one of their surges and call it their "Primary surge". I slightly disagree. I think what we are picking up on is the various order's Physical Surges and that the other surges of each order are simply more ambiguous because they happen in different realms. For example, Shallan has physical Illumination(lightweaving) and Cognitive Transformation(her personas). Likewise, I theorize that normal, untainted, Truthwatchers have the surges of Physical Progression and Cognitive Illumination. Sja's corruption has changed Gly's surge of Cognitive Illumination into Spiritual Illumination. leaving Renarin with Physical Progression and Spiritual Illumination. Physical Progression explains Renarin's ability to heal so well. To expand the symmetry we can conclude that: Truthwatchers: Physical Progression and Cognitive Illumination Corrupted Truthwatchers: Physical Progression and Spiritual Illumination Voidwatcher/Nightform: Cognitive Progression and Spiritual Illumination So the realm that spans these orders is the Cognitive Realm, though this might be different for other orders. What about the Oathgate spren? Normal Oathgates move purely in the Physical Realm, so they use Physical Transportation. The Corrupted Oathgate spren uses Cognitive Transportation because it takes people into the Cognitive Realm. So, Sja has changed the spren's surge from Physical to Cognitive. Which makes sense if Elsecallers have Cognitive Transportation and Physical Transformation, which they do (Elsecalling and Soulcasting). From there I think that Willshaper's have Physical Transportation because that was the power the Oathgates were origianlly using and I don't think they would have used a voidsurge to power them. Which leaves Spiritual Transportation for the Voidbinders and Corrupted Knights. To sum it up, Sja can transform the realmatics of surges from Physical -> Cognitive -> Spiritual. If she can turn Spiritual to Physical and complete the cycle we have yet to see. Moving from Sja to Surgebinding/Voidbinding: In my mind, the only difference separating the two magic systems is the realms they tend to work through. Knights mostly work in the Physical and Voidbinders mostly in the Spiritual. Which makes sense given that fused have no physical bodies of their own and that Voidbinding is like the "Drak Arts" of Roshar. The symmetry of the Surgebinding and Voidbinding charts also lends its weight to this theory, especially the inverted symmetry for the glyphs of the surges/voidsurges. If people are wondering how Kaladin can use the physical aspect of Gravitaion, Lift the physical aspect of Progression, and Dalinar the Physical aspects of Adhesion. I think it is simply because there is a fundamental way of using each surge that is independent of its realmatics. So, the basic/fundamental way of using Adhesion, for example, is the full lashing. Both Kaladin and Dalinar use it, but I doubt Kaladin can learn to speak other languages or Dalinar control pressure like Kaladin can. Lets start filling out a chart, feel free to lend me your thoughts on what should go where. This makes the most sense to me for the Knights(I really like this one): Order / Surges Physical Cognitive Spiritual Windrunner Adhesion Gravitation Skybreaker Gravitation Division Dustbringer Division Abrasion Edgedancer Abrasion Progression Truthwatcher Progression Illumination Lightweaver Illumination Transformation Elsecaller Transformation Transportation Willshaper Transportation Cohesion Stoneward Cohesion Tension Bondsmith ? ? Adhesion For Voidbinders I think this makes sense, but it is subject to drastic changes: Voidorder / Surges Physical Cognitive Spiritual Windrunner Adhesion Gravitation Skybreaker Gravitation Division Dustbringer Division Abrasion Edgedancer Abrasion Progression Truthwatcher Progression Illumination Lightweaver Illumination Transformation Elsecaller Transformation Transportation Willshaper Transportation Cohesion Stoneward Cohesion Tension Bondsmith ? ? ? For Corrupted Radiants we have(maybe): Corrupted Order / Surges Physical Cognitive Spiritual Windrunner Adhesion Gravitation Skybreaker Gravitation Division Dustbringer Division Abrasion Edgedancer Abrasion Progression Truthwatcher Progression Illumination Lightweaver Illumination Transformation Elsecaller Transformation Transportation Willshaper Transportation Cohesion Stoneward Cohesion Tension Bondsmith ? ? ? That's all folks, now tear it apart. Edit: Random speculation Spiritual Adhesion seems to work on a similar concept as Feruchemical Connection from Mistborn. Spiritual Illumination seems similar Atium. Spiritual Transformation sounds scarily like Lerasium(i.e changing a spirit web). Are we seeing some overlap with magic systems from other planets? I particularly think that the Knight chart fits because the cognitive surges seem to fit their traits quite well. I don't know the specifics of Willshapers, but Cognitive Cohesion seems to fit the name quite well. Malata( or whatever the name of Mr.T's Dustrbinger is) seems like she has an abrasive personality and Cognitive Abrasion seems like something Releasers would be in to.

So I created an account just so I could pose this questions to everyone. Be warned, Oathbringer spoilers here! ---- We now have scenes from Oathbringer (as well as WoB) demonstrating the use of one type of investiture to fuel a different off world sub-type of magic (ex. Szeth using stormlight to fuel Nightblood rather than breath). Now that Hoid is Knight Radiant in addition to a fully powered lerasium mistborn what sort of effect would stormlight have fueling allomancy? We see Kaladain receive a renewing supply of energy flying at the front of the everstorm and Szeth able to unleash the full effects of Nightblood without having to utilize biochromatic breath. Would stormlight act as a "metal supply" for Hoid? And if so, would it also potentially fuel him with an "atium reserve", possibly even a renewing one if he was near the everstorm? Conversely what sort of effect would metal vials have fueling surgebinding?

No shipping business here folks, keep your gonadcanons under control. This is mostly a crack theory because Surges and how they manifest in different realms are murky topics, but 'Spiritual Adhesion', this WoB, and the note on Lightweaving in WoR Ars Arcanum have convinced me that Szeth's screams and Shallan's fractured psyche are the results of their reckless use of Adhesion and Illumination respectively.

I am looking for some feedback on my Surgebinding chart that has been updated for Oathbringer. I am sure many of you saw Connections that I missed. I have included an Excel doc, a PDF doc, and picture for your viewing pleasure. And here we go: Stormlight.pdf Stormlight.xlsx