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You know, I think we kind of take it for granted how much we know about the cosmere. I remember not so long ago that Sel and Elantris was a complete mystery. We all argued over what Aona's Shard was, mostly to no avail. We had no idea about how the Shaod happened, and virtually no clue to how the Dor worked. These two mysteries have made theorizing about Sel pretty hard, to say the least. With the knowledge of Aona's Shard being Devotion, the theory that people who are particularly devoted to something get taken by the Shaod makes perfect sense, and matches with the Principle of Intent. Though a new mystery arose with Forgery and Bloodsealing: why are Selish magics so region locked, and what's so important about the land? Well, Kerry has pretty much answered this here: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/3363-devotion-dominion-and-magic-on-sel/ So really, the prime theoretical difficulty with Sel is the Dor. That's what this theory will hope to explain. Sel is very unique in its magic. Scadrial makes sense having three distinct magic systems, but Sel is way different, despite having just two powers. Even discounting the fact that there are way more than three magics on Sel, they are odd: they all channel the Dor, not Devotion or Dominion independently. They all focus the same power. And that's very bizarre, considering Scadrial's magics. Why does the Dor appear to act some homogenous thing? Any way you slice and dice it, it's odd. Is the Dor Devotion's power? No, because the Dakhor magic isn't really accessed in a way in line with Devotion--it really feels a lot more Dominion-like. Dakhor channels the Dor just as AonDor and Forgery do. So, clearly the Dor is some bizarre combination of Devotion and Dominion, for some reason. And no one has (to my knowledge) really given a complete treatise on why that might be. Any reasoning on the Dor's nature would need to explain how it is related to both Devotion and Dominion, and why it is this homogenous entity. It's certainly homogenous enough that Brandon has no qualms saying that virtually every Selish magic channels the Dor. First of all, I'm kind of assuming you've already read the Letter, which says Devotion and Dominion have Splintered. Additionally, much of the power left there is not under anything's control: Why does Brandon say "much" of the power on Sel? Well, the Seons and Skaze are related to Splinters, so those are the things controlling part of the power. But the rest? Presumably the Dor. So what is the Dor? The answer, I believe, comes straight from this quote: This blew me away. But, considering how important I find a Shard's intent, it's not exactly surprising that a way of altering the Shards is really fascinating to me. There's a discussion on this particular quote over here, and Windrunner and Senor Feesh suggested that this may have happened to Devotion and Dominion--that they are intermingled as well. If you'll allow me, I'd like to name this "intermingling" effect as convergence, as something this important--Shards beginning to merge--certainly would warrant an in-world term, I think. It also has a nice parallel with "conflux," which is what Brandon named a book that has to do with multiple worlds in a very direct fashion (instead of in the background, as things are now in the books). So, Ruin and Preservation are currently converging. This is because a common mind is holding them. I propose that Devotion and Dominion are also converging as well. But, the obvious question next is, why the heck would they be converging? Presumably, Sazed holding both Ruin and Preservation--one mind holding two powers--imposes some Cognitive change on the Shards. In the Realmatic terms like Shai, they are like two bricks in a wall, and they begin to think of themselves as a wall, not two separate bricks. This is, I think, the most intuitive way to explain Ruin and Preservation converging: the powers themselves are beginning to think of themselves as part of a greater whole, thus intermingling them to be considered Harmony. I would only assume that the longer Sazed holds these two power, the more Ruin and Preservation will see themselves as Harmony instead, perhaps eventually literally becoming one Shard permanently. As of now, they can still be split, so that indicates to me that this process definitely hasn't finished yet. Though, I suppose you could say that even a Shard isn't permanent, as Odium certainly Splintered Devotion and Dominion. The exact specifics on Ruin and Preservation's convergence to Harmony is certainly worth discussing, but let's switch back to Devotion and Dominion. Obviously whatever happened with Sazed didn't at all happen with Devotion and Dominion; no common mind holds them both. In fact, they are both more broken than ever. But that may be exactly the key. Whereas Ruin and Preservation in the order that Sazed's control of them imposes, Devotion and Dominion and both similar in that they are both without holders and pretty broken. I propose that this also makes Devotion and Dominion converge, and this combined power is exactly what the Dor is. Think of two vases, one white, and one black--Devotion and Dominion. Now throw them on the ground, so hard that they break into tiny pieces. Collect that pile, mix them up, and zoom out. If the pieces are small enough, the pile no longer looks like black or white; it looks grey instead. When two things are broken, they can combine in new ways, like two liquids forming a completely new mixture. Now I imagine this is a little different in Devotion and Dominion's case, as their pieces would be still tied to their respective intent, but I think eventually, this dramatic change from Odium Splintering them would mean that the leftover fragments would see themselves as a part of a new whole. After all, they both aren't being held, and are both broken. I think this makes a lot of sense as for why the Dor is the way that it is. (Now, you may wonder why I didn't use the word "Splinter" to describe these pieces of Devotion and Dominion, considering Odium Splintered them. Well, we know the Aons at the heart of the Seons are Splinters, and to no one's surprise Brandon hinted that Skaze are similar: The Seons and Skaze--presumably Devotion and Dominion's Splinters--are not enough of a release valve. So this means that there is a lot of power that isn't under anything's control. Duh, since there was no indication the Dor acted any other way. In lieu of a cosmere term to call the pieces of Devotion and Dominion's power, that's why I stayed with vague words like "fragments." We just can't really say they are Splinters, or anything about them.) I totally understand if the analogy I made isn't particularly compelling, but it certainly matches with our conception with the Dor being a unified, mindless whole. It fits with those quotes above. But, maybe you want a little more persuading, so let's talk about some consequences of Devotion and Dominion's convergence, especially on magic. Before Devotion and Dominion's Splintering, magic worked differently on Sel (though I can't find that quote right now). It isn't a big leap to say that perhaps the regionalizing of Selish magic happened due to the Splintering of the Shard. Maybe before the Splintering, there were three magics on Sel, like Scadrial. Kerry's theory about Identity, people have an Identity tied their nationality, culture, and heritage. Her theory basically explains in how magic can be tied to the land, and how it lines up with Devotion and Dominion's intents. But why might have Devotion and Dominion's Splintering even had this effect of tying the magic to the land? Well, Allomancy requires a connection to Preservation, and on a less magical level, people that are freaking ruinous would use Hemalurgy. Perhaps, due to Devotion and Dominion's Splintering and this convergence, people can't use magic with a connection to Devotion or Dominion directly, because they don't exist in the same way. Instead, the "largest" thing that people have a connection or Identity to--instead these all-powerful Shards--is their culture and nationality. People with a strong Devotion or Dominion with that, as Kerry's theory suggests, would now be able to use magic. It's all because Devotion and Dominion are Splintered, and their power doesn't have as strong of identity, so it is shaped by the identity of manmade, regional borders. If anything, the Reod and the Chasm teaches us that these magics are actually very fluid. Aons that worked a thousand years ago may need to be refined. Perhaps as regions and countries change, or as ethnicities converge (see what I did there?) entirely different magics can form. Now, I'll admit, I'm not entirely sure if each regional magic is of Devotion or Dominion explicitly. After all, that's been the standing assumption with AonDor: it's of Devotion, not Dominion, and likewise Dakhor is of Dominion, not Devotion. But, it's a lot harder with ChayShan, Forgery, and Bloodsealing to decide. I am leaning to the idea that each magic can be in line with any sort of combination of Devotion and Dominion. Kerry connects all regional magics with both Devotion and Dominion, so I don't find this hard to believe. So, maybe presently on Sel, a magic is a certain percentage Devotion and Dominion. Unlike Scadrial where magics are 100% Preservation, 100% Ruin, or a 50/50 split, on Sel you could have 73%/27%. Who knows. It's entirely possible that we think of AonDor and Dakhor as Devotion and Dominion-heavy magics because the Seons and Skaze, which are related to Splinters of Devotion and Dominion, exist in these two regions, and so tilt the region's balance toward one Shard or the other. In fact, though I totally riffed that just now, it seems to make sense with the Identity idea. A region's Identity would be related to a ton of different factors, and maybe the nature of a given culture tilts the way a region's magic accesses Devotion and Dominion. Here's an interesting quote on that note: So it's the exact nature of the Dor which makes it regionalized. I don't think the Dor has an intent, like Harmony does. The Dor is a product of chaos and brokenness. When something changes in the Physical and Cognitive, this can have a reflection in the Dor, so these distinct cultural Identities have an effect on the Dor. What do you think? Admittedly, while this works really well for Sel, I'm not sure what is different on Roshar, which despite having Honor Splintered, has a non-regionalized magic in Surgebinding. It could just be that the nature of Honor and Cultivation don't result in regionalization. But, it would explain how some spren are of Honor and Cultivation. It's hard to say at this point, and while there can be more to this than I'm catching here, it seems very theoretically solid for Sel.

This might be the most important of Cosmere topics. Now we understand that the different magics and peoples of the Cosmere are fascinating and amazing. But even more so are the entities that were never alive, yet have a personality and drive of their own. These Splinters are pockets of Shardic Power that develop a type of intelligence. It is apparent that these beings are critical to the overall narrative of the Cosmere, while some are likely the perpetrators of some of the greatest evils seen so far. What are these Splinters and how do you recognize one? Transcripts: I wish my father could have come to Roshar. Things that seemed mundane to others fascinated him to no end. The rocky hills and the crustaceous life that seems to make up this entire world are so different from the home I once knew. He would have written enough dissertations and filled enough sketchbooks to drown a man in the first week alone. He was odd, but he had a love of discovery, and visiting other worlds would have been a dream come true for him. And my brother…. He would have loved seeing all the different shapes spren come in. The spren are small spirit looking entities that appear around the planet. Forces and states of mind that normally too subtle to observe clearly are manifested visually making their study far easier to perform empirically. I believe that a spren is a physical representation of a cognitive entity. They are not physical in the sense that you can touch them, or that they have any sort of measurable mass. But they remind me of the simple minds that exist, attached to the objects in the Cognitive realm. However, these are not attached to any one object, rather they are bound to a purpose or intent. For instance, if one is provoked into anger, anger spren seem to be drawn out, and serve as a secondary indicator of the being’s intent. There are also Spren tied to more ecological forces, such as flame spren and river spren. I’ve even observed spren that seem to account for things unseen, such as wind spren and life spren. This aspect of spren and their natures yields promising potential in the fields of science and sociology. It must be far easier to consult or comfort someone when fear spren manifest their anxiety. In my personal journals I have been writing up my observations of the spren and their forms. My notes are far from professional and I doubt anyone but myself would be interested in these notations. I feel there must be some connection between the existence of spren and the High Storms which bring great rushing surges of Investiture. These cataclysmic storms occur most weeks if not multiple times a week. Such a rush of raging power must have metaphysical effects along with the violent weather phenomena that is the storm wall. Now while I would love to chat about spren all day, this letter is a particular note because I have a theory about what these spren actually are. You see they take up a form that is far too intelligent to be just a stray consciousness. Some of the larger spren are able to interact and mimic people, such as wind spren. They have an almost playful attitude towards life and have been known to play pranks on humans they encounter. No, there is something far greater at work here. As you know from my previous letter, I am now aware of the former existence of Adonalsium and of the shattering. These fractured Shards left and later developed a drive or fundamental nature to themselves. Shards are immense in scope and power. This power yields abilities that seem only limited to the imagination. In fact, we know from the “Words of Founding” that Shards have created life from their power. Now getting back to the topic at hand, these spren do not act like any animal I have ever come across. They seem to thrive on ideas and concepts of the human mind. By observing and often mimicking what they interact with, spren reveal that they have a core nature. They are drawn to some kid of theme or purpose. This tendency, to have and hold true to an idea or states of environment that reflects what they themselves are. In this way they remind me of matured Shards. As you recall, the Shards seem to have a compulsion to see out a particular ideal, usually summarized by the name they adopt. The spren seem to mimic this type of behavior and single-mindedness. I postulate, based on these observations that spren are little pockets of Shardic power. Unlike raw Investiture, which is simply harness-able energy, spren are power with a measured intelligence and will. They are like Splinters of a soul. It is easier to understand this position when you visit the Cognitive Realm. There the Spren seem far more complex, and even dangerous. There are whispers of larger spren that have intelligence and memories who live there. I hope to do more direct observing as soon as I have established myself with the peoples here. I have seen enough to recognizes that there is something nearly supernatural about these beings. It seems reasonable to assume that these spren are pieces of a greater whole. Splinters are entities of power that were never alive as a humanoid, but attain a level of… consciousness. This is where things are still a bit fuzzy. It cannot be denied that the spren are intelligent, at least in a broad sense. By contrast the Returned on Nalthis also carry with them a Splinter in the form of a divine breath. In fact, all breath might be considered a splinter since they are portions of a Shards power, but a Divine Breath is unique. Yet it must be asked, are the Returned a person brought back from death by infusing their soul with a splinter, or does the Splinter itself inherit the body of a dead person? The answer to this might simply be both, and for this particular argument the distinction is not important. What matters is that there is an intent behind both a spren and Divine Breath. I would then also guess from my studies that Seons could be considered Splinters. They are far more than just a symbol of Aon-dor, and they exemplify obedient intelligence with a profound memory and distinct personality. In this way they might be the most advance form of documented Splinter to date. However, there is a potential in the spren, and if the Nightwatch and Stormfather can be confirmed as massive spren, they might be the most powerful Splinters known to man. I am particularly intrigued by this Nightwatycher. There are rumors that she can grant requests that come with an associated boon. If this is more than a myth, the implications are… staggering. Regardless I plan to make the journey to see this being. I also hope to find a good location to watch a High Storm, hopefully I will be able to observe this Storm Father for myself. As I’ve pondered these findings, my thoughts turned to Scadreal. At first I couldn’t think of any beings or entities there that would count as Splinters. In fact, I still feel that Scadreal has never seen a Splinter according to the historical records that we have. Yet I pause at the thought of the Kandra. The shapeshifters are intelligent beings that once were mindless creatures. They gained their intelligence via the powers of two hemalergic spikes. This was when I made the connection between spikes and Splinters. This may be an unrelated correlation, but the similarities are strong, and only separated by scope. Most hemalergic spikes are simply a form of spiritual surgery, ripping one soul apart and splicing pieces of that soul into another person. But with the kandra, they grant actual consciousness as if they were a Splinter themselves. Perhaps they are. However, I abhor the thought of anyone performing an investigation. Any testing with Hemallergy will be destructive beyond the point of rationality. What troubles me are the whispers of these Voidbringers. On Roshar there are tales of monsters built of stone and darkness that once sought the destruction of all sentient life on this world. The rumors are whispers at best, but I have made several well informed connections. If my discoveries here are accurate and these void spren are actually real, then we are dealing with splinters that are openly hostile. My guess is that these spren move with an intent and were created purposefully by a destructive Shard. I see now why I was sent here, for history seems ripe to repeat itself. I wish to be absolutely wrong about this, but my gut feeling is that there is a great destruction coming. To you, I suggest the following caution. Should I prove right, and find that there are evil spren sent to do the work of a destructive shard, be sure to look for the patterns. These splinters seem to be mimics or replicas of what already exists here. This goes against all that I have observed on other worlds where the Shards manifest uniquely when exerting their respective Investiture powers. If this Dark one seeks to mimic his fellows, then his touch may be subtle. Look for the signs of madness or corruption of what already exists. Red eyes… perhaps this is another sign to watch for. There are reports that the people who wage war here have recently been seen with glowing red eyes. This might be the only reliable way to recognize the servants of this being. Then again, it is possible that there are multiple Shards attempting to cause upheaval and destruction. That thought alone sends a shiver up my spine. I will continue to look into these Void bringers, and there are more reports coming in all the time. Something inside me feels as if there is a great bell just beginning to toll the final hours of this place. The air almost hums with tension and I fear that someday this world will break. I hope your messengers can find me amidst what is to come. Perhaps I am wrong, but this seems all too familiar. I wish I had more time, but I am afraid… afraid that I will once again watch innocent lives be snuffed out. I don’t want to watch another world die. Elsric

I hope this isn't some already pointed. But as far as I remember Szeth didn't never attract a Spren (regular Spren like angerspren, painspren,ecc...). I know that Shinovar is a place without Spren (indeed is hard to understand if there are no spren or simply the spren are invisible there) but is it possible that its popolation is also uncapable of attracting Spren (as Connection to her homeland) ? The problem here is the only Shin out of his country (as far as I remember) is Szeth and he has some oddity with him....Therefore is not really "standard Shin". If this is true, it's possible that many Shin choose to not leave Shinovar as defence aganist expose this strange features of their people. PS: As side, enigma....Do WorldHoppers on Roshar, attract Spren ?

So, we know from WoB that Ashir and Geranid's discovery that spren can be "forced" to maintain a specific shape/characteristic if measurements of their dynamic properties are quantitatively documented is going to have profound and lasting consequences across Roshar; I believe his wording was something along the lines of: 'Ushering in a new Age of Legends.' (not a direct quote) My understanding of the phenomenon is basically that, as creations of the cognitive realm, spren's properties can be manipulated by people's perception; ie: Geranid strongly believes that her measurements are legitimate, accurate, and meaningful, so when she measures a spren's length, her presence in the cognitive realm is dominating and forging that spren into a static shape. If she used a length of string that she thought looked to be six inches long to measure a spren, its form probably wouldn't be locked because she wouldn't truly believe that the measurement was meaningful and accurate, even if it later turned out that the string was precisely as long as she thought. More powerful spren could probably resist being changed by a single measurement...but my theory is, if enough ardents, scientists, artifabrians, ect. weighed in and contributed observations that they aggregated, analyzed, or averaged, they could gradually lock even powerful spren into a static form through their collective presence and power over the cognitive realm. We also have WoB that a minor spren, like a flamespren, could theoretically be bonded, though doing so would be difficult (he might even have implied that it just isn't going to happen); I assume the bond would work the same way it does for highspren, in that the minor spren would slowly be granted a sense of identity and personality. Maybe it's a stretch, but I would think that if any spren can be bonded, then that would mean that any spren, theoretically, has the capacity to become a shardblade. Not all spren are equal, it's possible that a weak spren could only produce a greatly weakened shardblade; ie, one that experiences much more drag when cutting through objects, or might be hopeless at cutting very hard materials or even weakly invested objects. Still, even a "weak" shardblade would be a tool of immense power. Even Dalinar notes how useful shards would be for normal people and expresses regret that they must be utilized only for defense, so I can't imagine that artifabrians and ardents are going to be giving up their quest to develop artifical shards, even as new and miraculous fabrials are developed. I was wondering if anyone had had similar thoughts or perhaps a different understanding of how this phenomenon works. Does anyone have any thoughts on how something like a flamespren, or maybe a riverspren since they're supposed to be relatively large, powerful, and possibly intelligent, could be gamed into taking the form of a blade? I'm thinking repeated observations by a group of people to selectively create and release constraints; maybe even granting the spren sentience by repeatedly attempting to communicate with it while it's "trapped." Then it would just need to be convinced to adopt the desired form, at which point it could be measured, defined, and locked in place.

While re-listening to WoR I was wondering if Chapter 32 "the one who hates" is actually referencing Szeth, which seems to be the obvious answer. Could it instead have something to do with Eshonai taking her new form during that same storm? I'm wondering because instead of staying with just Syl and Kaladin, we also get a super quick peek at Pattern also freaking out in Shallan's wagon. Curiously, we don't have any hint that Renarin's spren is bothered or that anything is bothering Renarin (since we don't have any reason to think he has a spren at this point in the story) though maybe it hasn't developed enough to respond? I'd be grateful for a link if this has already been covered, I did a search but am new to these stories and this website.

So we know that fabrials are powered by spren trapped in their gemstones. Could any spren be trapped in a gemstone? If so, does that mean that Syl could be trapped at some point? How would that affect the Nahel bond and Kaladin's Surgebinding? Would there be a way for her to break out? Would it be painful for her?

I've tried to peruse all of the spren/shardblade threads floating around but couldn't find anything recent that really talks about what we know re: spren disliking shardblades. My point with this thread is that it is not clear that all Nahel bonding spren have an aversion to shardblades. So what do we know? Forewarning: sorry about the length - this was all very much a thinking-out-loud kind of deal. 1) Syl doesn't like them. She is repulsed by Dalinar's shardblade, and also (I think?) mentions being drawn to Kaladin in part based on his choice to refuse the shardblade that he wins. As far as I can recall, however, Syl never provides justification for how she feels. It comes of as instinctual - and to speculate a little - has a similar feel to her offhand comment about Cryptics (which she cannot explain or justify when asked about it). 2) Shallan has a shardblade, and has also recently acquired Pattern. Shallan has had a shardblade for quite some time, but has also had no trouble attracting a spren over that period. One could argue that b/c Shallan doesn't summon her shardblade often (or at all?) that Pattern might just be ignorant of it, but that seems very unlikely. 3) Wyndle, who seems to have retained more knowledge/memory than Syl or Pattern since crossing over, doesn't immediately recognize the shardblades (or honorblade + shardblade) that Darkness and his minions have. He just says, "There's something about those weapons they carry...", which seems to express mild curiosity and an acknowledgement that they aren't normal weapons, but no distaste or animosity. Also possibly relevant: Wyndle boasts about creating gardens that both Cryptics and honorspren enjoy, implying that he occupies some sort of neutral position in spren politics. 4) The Knights Radiant of the past obviously possessed both Nahel bonded spren and shardblades; we've seen this first-hand with Wind Runners, Stonewards, and (presumably) Dustbringers. 5) Renarin apparently sees a spren, with implications that it is a Nahel bonding spren, and he is reluctant to accept a shardblade, grimacing when he receives it. There's lots of vague speculation involved in including this last point here just b/c we don't *know* that Renarin sees and/or is developing a bond with a Nahel spren, but this seems to be the consensus best-guess for what's going on with him. From #'s 1 and 2 above, along w/ Jasnah's comments about the Honorspren/Cryptic tensions, it could well be that Syl's dislike of shardblades is a symptom, or in some way related to, the disagreement between different factions of spren. #3 doesn't provide much in the way of hard evidence, but I think everything we see from Wyndle is consistent with the above. #4 strongly suggests that whatever dislike for shardblades that Syl/Honorspre or a broader subset of spren have is probably a relatively recent (ie post-Recreance) development. #5 could imply that Renarin's spren - assuming that he's getting one - is on the Honorspren side of any spren politics. All together, I think there's solid evidence that some spren not liking shardblades might be more of a political thing than anything to do with a fundamental evil-ness of shardblades. Another alternative is that the shardblades that we've seen shunned by spren (Dalinar's, the one Adolin gives Renarin, also Amaram's?) have both been in circulation among the Alethi of late, and we've seen ample evidence of the Thrill (assumed to be Odium-related) as a pretty widespread thing in Alethela. So it's possible that spren (or maybe still just some spren) are turned off by specific shardblades, depending on how they've been used recently, and/or what flavors of shard/investiture (assuming the Thrill involves any Odium related investiture) may have touched them recently. Or perhaps the most likely conclusions is that both of the above are going on, i.e., honorspren are repulsed by Odium while those less aligned with Honor are not, and it's divides such as this that lead to spren politics.

Wow, been a while since I wandered the forums... I was re-reading the tor.com re-read of the Way of Kings (that's a hefty amount of re's to work through), when I had a brand new thought! I searched back through the forums and found a delightful conversation in which we finally (more or less) nailed down that spren are pieces of cognitive manifestation for their spiritual ideals, that have an increased ability to enter the physical when they bond with people. They could (I think) also be described as tiny pieces of shardic power that have taken on specific intents (little "i"). In other words, they are - at the most basic level - made of the same stuff that infuses spheres during a Highstorm: little bits of Shard that coalesce and take on identity over time. They are obviously much more substantial and self-aware than the Stormlight that resides in spheres, or even than the single-minded cognitive directive of almighty Stick; to the extent that even the smallest, dopiest spren takes some kind of form in the physical world, and likely is able to move around quite a bit when it resides in the Cognitive world. (I personally attribute their level of self-awareness to their level of connection to humans, but I digress). Anyway... here's my thought, and please feel free to disagree, or better yet disprove, but if I run with the vein that spren are basically souped up nuggets of self-aware Stormlight, then they likely have some ability to power-up their Radiant counterparts in a pinch ( ) once they are sufficiently attuned to each other (i.e. the Radiant accurately reflects the spren's Spiritual ideal, and is able to key into power via the spren ). They would only be able to help out the Radiant they are attuned to, since sDNA is quite finicky . Actually, as near as I can figure it, Stormlight can be used by anyone precisely because it doesn't have any sense of identity... or at least beyond being perceived as simply 'Stormlight'. Either it doesn't have any sense of identity (maybe because it's so transient), or it's identity is actually some weird Spiritual ideal of 'power'. It also seems quite diffuse in comparison to the innate power in spren. We should also just make note that perception/identity plays a huge (YUUUUUGE!) role in the Cosmere at large. And here's the application question: If I'm right... would meddling with a spren's sense of identity (i.e. reducing it's identity to 0, either through magic or by everyone simply perceiving it as lacking identity) allow that spren's power to be accessed by anyone/anything? Like a tiny pool of super-Stormlight? Or like ? Furthering this thought... if Odium found a way to reduce a spren's identity to 0 (*cough* Feruchemy *cough*)... could he go around depleting the identity, and then power, of spren to get a massive burst of energy? The example that came immediately to my mind was I guess it helps that messing with Invested stuff (probably including spren) is magically really tough, but I can't help thinking there could be loopholes around that, and the 'Voidbringers" literally bring nothingness to spren... Thoughts? The thought is quite abstract and off the cuff, so there may be someone that can easily dismiss it and I can move on with my life lol

So, yesterday night, during a particularly interesting moment of clarity brought on by a lack of sleep and energy drinks, I finally stumbled on what I consider to be my biggest theory related to the Cosmere as a whole. That is, I have a pretty solid idea on how Honorblades function. So, let's get down to business, and take a look at the facts that we know. We know that spren (but only certain types) are able to imitate what the Honorblades are capable of. We know that most of the spren are made from either Honor, Cultivation, or both (I'm not including Voidspren here). There are even some pre-Shattering ones hanging about. We know that some spren, like the honorspren, are actually Splinters of Honor (Syl is a "little piece," I believe the term is). Similarly, there are other spren who either Splinters of Honor, Splinters of Cultivation, or quite possibly both. Splinters are primarily things of the Spiritual and Cognitive Realms, and not so much Physical. (Source) We know, from Warbreaker, that Splinters can be made from living Shards of their own free will. Odium just likes Splintering Shards so that he doesn't absorb them, and so it's immensely difficult for others to seize that power. So, with these facts assembled, I'd like to make the following proposition: Honorblades are Splinters of Honor. Simply put, the honorspren (as an example) were able to mimic what the Honorblades did in the form of the Nahel bond. If that is the case, then there must be some similarity between them (ie, Jezrien's blade and an honorspren would both bond to someone's Spiritweb in the same place). However, there are some key differences, and that's where things get interesting. From what I can gather, the Honorblades lack any form of Intent, or their Intent is not particularly relevant. This is presumably designed by Tanavast, as the Honorblades are capable of bonding to any individual and granting them access to Surgebinding. The spren, on the other hand, can use their bonded individual's alignment with their Intent (ie, adherence to their Words) in order to greatly increase the efficiency with which Investiture is processed and controlled. So, in exchange for being available for virtually anyone to use, the Honorblades lack the ability to process Stormlight as effectively as a Radiant who is fully attuned with their spren's Intent. I've got some further speculations, but these are mostly rough ideas, and heavily rely upon further understanding of the Spiritweb and the Spiritual Realm. Since these aren't subjects we fully understand yet, it's something I'll reserve for a later date.

Why was Shallan able to see Ivory in Jasnah's hand if he does not wish to be seen? Can he not appear specifically to whoever he wants like Syl? Is he unable to hide at all like Pattern? I've guessed that he could hide in plain sight as Jasnah's shadow but don't recall any mentions of it. How else would a little shadow man hide? I couldn't find this question asked but if it has been, I apologize.

Hello fellow Shardlings! (Is that the word? Oh well, your my Shardlings anyway) So I am proud to announce that "Letters From the Cosmere" is officially out of production and live on YouTube! This is a YouTube series that I thought would be helpful as a resource for new community members who wished to learn about Brandon's Cosmere in manageable packets of information. I also wanted this to be entertaining for members of the community who were already well established. In this series the World Hopper Aarik writes letters to his acquaintances about the things he has observed as he has traversed the Cosmere. If you want to see it for yourself, follow the link here: Hello! If you want more info about why this exists, I have an explanation. So a couple years back I was first introduced to the Cosmere by a dear friend who handed me a copy of Mistborn. I devoured that book and proceeded to perchance every Brandon Sanderson Book I could. I remember my shock when I first suspected that there were characters and a particular Black Sword that I had seen in other books appearing in the newer stories. I had assumed that these were all just different stories. That was when my friend informed me about the idea of the Cosmere. I was so excited I jumped online and did a quick search for the Forms. Holy Cow The amount of information was staggering. It was amazing, but staggering. I remember not knowing where to start or even what questions to ask. I think everyone starts off a little star struck. Hoping to find a good foundation I turned to YouTube. In the past I had researched the Star Wars EU by watching informational videos fans had made for YouTube so I thought there would be Cosmere videos as well. There were none. A few months latter when I staggered from 17th Shard a much wiser man, I started thinking about that first YouTube search. I had an active YouTube account where had started making serious weekly content. I decided that I wanted to make the videos that I had hoped to find when I had first joined. But I didn't want this to just be a boring list of facts, or a review of each book. I wanted to do something with more life and flavor. I wanted these letters to feel like they were a part of the Cosmere. I worked on the premise for months, crafting and re crafting the idea in my mind and in my notes. I was prepared when Brandon came to town on his recent 2016 Book Signing Tour. Our convention was small, and I was able not only to pitch my idea to Brandon, but we were able to talk about it in length for several hours. At first he was concerned, and who wouldn't be? I was wanting to create something using his intellectual property. However as the discussion continued, I could see the gears turning in his mind. Eventually I must have sold him on the idea because he tanked me for asking him in person and said, "I give you personal permission to make this YouTube series." We spent the next several hours having a stop and start conversation about this project. Naturally I was trying not to hog him from the other fans, but playing him in a game of magic helped. He also seemed excited to give me tips. He made several suggestions about paths I could take with the character, but left a lot up to me. I will be sending him a personal detailed report so as to make sure everything checks out, but I got the clear impression that he wanted me to own this project. Also, I need to say that this project would be far weaker without the fantastic artists who offered their support for the work. I contacted the artist of each painting that I used and asked their permission to use their work. I will NEVER steal a piece of art, even if it's easy to download. I want to work with the artists and I hope that more artists will be inspired by this project and share their talent with all of us in these Letters. Please make sure you send some love and thankful messages to the amazing artists. They deserve every bit of praise they get. And that now leads us here. I am so happy that this first episode is available. I have already received encouragement and support from the community members who have found it. I cannot wait to make more of these episodes. I honestly think this will be a series I will be making for years and years to come. I hope that you enjoyed this taste, and that you come back for more. If you are an artist and want to share your work with the world, I would love to work with you.I hope you all enjoy this series. If you have any thoughts I hope you will share them, just remember to be courteous with each other. Obviously I am not Brandon and will get things wrong from time to time. However I will do my best to only say what I know, or try to make it clear that the character is speculating. Hope you have a wonderful day and I'll see you around the Cosmere! -TheBlueShifting PS I have had a couple requests to see the text version of the episode. I have decided to post that here on my Forms in 17th Shard. There may be slight deviations, but overall the text is the same. I also reserve the right to edit the content in the future if Brandon points out any changes that need to be made, though I doubt that will happen with this episode. Here you go! I don’t quite know how to start this letter. Lines like dear friends or colleagues seem inconsistent with our perceived “relationship”. Needless to say, I have not decided to abandon our friend’s request that I chronical my travels. My father would be proud to see that after all this time I became a scholar after a fashion. But I suppose I should start with the fundamentals of what I have learned and work my way to the finer aspects. Although my knowledge is limited, I share what I know, and what I suspect to be true. But first, a foundation: Look around you. Everything you see, the walls of your house, the air you are breathing, even the light entering your eyes are all a part of the Cosmere. It is all that is, all that was, and all that will be. Everything is connected by the forces that shape the universe. Light and Gravity. Investiture and Cognition. Even the souls of men are manifestations of the cosmere itself. In my travels I have gained a unique perspective of what the cosmere is and what it contains. Our inheritance, our birthright, is to explore this vast Cosmere, our home. And in it, to see the divine attributes that shape it. When I was first educated by my father, I often contemplated my place in the world. I would look North to the dark peeks that stood just at the edge of sight and wonder what lay beyond them. I look back now and almost laugh at the wide eyed youth who couldn’t imagine a world larger than the town I grew up in. I who have set foot in the shadows of other worlds and cultures across space and time. Although my introduction to the greater cosmere was a feat of happenstance, I find great pleasure in diving the nature of the universe in my own way. Before I write anything else I need to clarify what the comere is by the simplest definition. There are three major aspects of the Cosmere, these three realms or dimensions shape and in turn are shaped by each other. They are effectively inseparable, Each one with its own rules and capacities. Despair their alien nature, the fundamentals of these realms are fairly straightforward. First we have the tangible or Physical realm. This is the home of all the peoples of the Cosmere. Three dimensions ruled by gravity and light, physics is the language upon which we understand this dimension. Luckily I was educated in mathematics and physics, a far more useful education than I appreciated at the time. Although the worlds of men and sentient races are separated by vast oceans of distances, these worlds each share the common elements of mathematical proofs and similar ecosystems. Although the tree realms are intertwined, it is unclear if the physical realm is dependent on the other realms to exist. However, it is apparent that the physical world has a dramatic effect on the other two realms, especially in the cognitive realm. When you step outside, you will find that you are followed by a shadow. Although you are the source of the shadow and it’s movements, the shadow is not a part of you, but a type of warped reflection. The cognitive realm is a shadow of the physical realm. Everything that has a conception, a form, or a name, has a spark of cognition. By naming and defining the objects and forces of our physical world, we give them a life and mind of their own. Most of the time, calling these entities “intelligent” is a stretch of the truth. Each idea starts as a small, simple spark, so fleeting that it is lost in the sea of drifting minds that form the substance of the cognitive realm. Sometimes these ideas can grow, and take a form and intelligence all their own. I have heard tales of creations like the Ceons of Sel which are created as helpers for the Elantrians. I’ve even encountered some advanced cognitive minds that call themselves spren on the Shard world of Roshar. If you were to physically visit the cognitive realm, you would find that what we see as a physical land mass is instead a sea of cognitive thoughts. Traveling through this sea can be tricky, even dangerous to some. In contrast, large bodies of water in the physical world manifest as a solid mass obscuring the minds that dwell below. Distance and time mean little in the cognitive realm, and the thoughts of men are connected across the cosmere. The men and women who world hop use the cognitive realm which bind the various shard worlds together. Those who have learned the secrets of travel by investiture can traverse the cosmere by simply walking. The Spiritual Realm is the most mysterious of the three realms. In fact, I doubt that there is any being that still interacts with the cognitive and physical realms who truly knows what lies beyond its borders. All that is know is that there is a part of man, an essence of some kind that exists in this realm. What is very strange is that most of the powers and investitures that are used throughout the cosmere are manifestations of the spiritual realm in the physical world. Perhaps the soul forms a conduit for the power between the spiritual realm and the physical and cognitive. I feel that there is no limit to the breath and depth of the spiritual realm, and that mankind has only tapped into a miniscule sliver of the power that resides there. These three form the trinity of all life in the cosmere. However to separate these into different categories is almost counter intuitive. In order to examine the different aspects of the Physical, Cognitive, and Spiritual, we have to label and categorize them as individual places or planes of existence. However it is important to remember that these three occupy the same “space” or area. For instance, if you were to pass from the physical world into the Cognitive world, you would seem to appear in an alien and unstable land of darkness and mist. However in regards to traveling, you would remain in the same location and may find common recognizable landmarks on the other side. This connection is important, however the different realms do not seem to share the laws of physics and time as we understand it. Having been one of the few to set foot beyond the Physical realm, I have developed a deep appreciation of the complexity, depth, and scope of the universe. With all our study and expansive thought, with the literal power of the Gods in our fingertips, we still know so little about the ways and wisdoms of the cosmere. I am not a scholar, not truly, which you dear reader must find incredibly frustrating. Yet as I look upon the surface of another world, I am compelled to learn all I can. This shall be the first of many letters I’m sure. Despite my hesitation to agree to this arrangement, I understand the value of the things I have observed and continue to observe. Should I fall prey to the dangers of the cosmere I would hope that I could leave some kind of legacy. Be wary with these letters for there are forces and organizations who seek to stop meddlers like. I find that the more I learn and explore the closer I get to catastrophe. Currently I am returning to the shard world Roshar. Something is happening there that is sending ripples throughout the cognitive realm. There is a darkness coming and that is something I cannot ignore. Until the next time, Aarik

First, this forum is such a cool space to have conversation and speculation among people with similar interests yet such different backgrounds. The different experiences that we have definitely feeds into how each of us reads and interprets, which makes for such a fascinating opportunity to share insights and see things in ways that we might not have thought of or picked up on. Certainly, there are aspects of the fantasy genre that are meant for entertainment – I, for one, love to get lost in a different world every once in a while, disconnecting from ‘reality’ and plugging into dreams and imaginations. However, much of the world deems writing, poetry, imagination, fiction, especially fantasy, as a luxury that is separate from and irrelevant to what is commonly known as ‘real life.’ So I wanted to begin, since this is my very first post in the forum, with a word of encouragement to you fine folks. As the saying goes, fiction is the lie through which we tell the truth (I am sure the progression of Shallan Davar and Pattern would agree with this), and fantasy, as removed from ‘truth’ as it often seems, is a pertinent example of lies through which much truth is often spoken. To those of you who are mocked for choosing to spend your time in a corner, head buried in a book, take heart and confidence in what you learn from your imagination, and in that confidence share your insights with those who might be afraid of the truths they might find within the lies they tell themselves: that reality is what it seems, fantasy is only escape and distraction, and survival is for the ‘fittest.’ Imagination is not a luxury, it is life. I think Brandon Sanderson does well in showing this in the Stormlight Archive, making manifest what we cannot naturally see in our world through spren. As said in one of the books, spren is change, or, at least in Roshar, a visual manifestation of change. To relate this to our world, things are changing all the time. We do not notice, and we take it for granted, but it’s true. Cells are constantly dying and growing; when we stand still, we are moving with the earth’s rotation; we are thinking, always thinking; etc. etc. One thing I wanted to touch on specifically, however, is the nature of light, which I promise I will relate to Truthwatching and Illumination eventually, so bear with me. Questions of sight do not usually inspire responses of detailed reality, with the physics of how one actually sees, in terms of what might even allow for sight – that is, for example, one does not think to tell of the light that reflects off of opaque surfaces and into eyes, or the lack or distortion thereof that might affect vision, or the scattering of such that red might be distinguished from blue, black and white and the shades between. For most, light is rarely thought of as an independent actor, but just a medium through which we see. Even for the blind, however, light exists: at the very least they can feel its warmth, its energy – they would not see in the same way because light exists differently for them. The point is that light is everywhere but it is often not considered – perhaps we actually see more than we think. Perhaps spren really do exist. I first noticed the correlation between spren and quantum theory in the interlude chapter in Way of Kings where two ardents are measuring spren. As a disclaimer, I am not a theoretical physicist, nor will I include any math here on this forum, but it is fascinating to compare the similarities. In classical physics, what we all perhaps learned in high school in one form or another, measurement does not change the state of what is being measured. For example, the weight of one paperclip today will be the same tomorrow, more or less. In quantum physics, however, the rules are different – measurement changes everything. To tangent a little, this discovery in the early 20th century has made physicists rethink how even reality works – what if quantum theory applies not just at the quantum (very very miniscule) level, but to everything? Not just physically, but cognitively as well? This is the context I am placing the Stormlight Archive in. Through fantasy, Sanderson has made manifest and broken down certain theories that pervade contemporary thought. In the previously mentioned interlude chapter, spren stop moving when they are measured. This is similarly the case in quantum theory (if interested, look up wave function collapse). Okay, cool. But so what? Here is where my theory on Truthwatching comes in. When Renarin says he sees, what he means is that he actually sees. Not ‘see’ in the conventional sense, but literally sees. Wow, really clear man. I know, I know. The closest analogy I could think of is The Matrix, where at the end -SPOILER-, Neo literally sees reality as the code of the Matrix since it is a computer program. What I’m saying is the Truthwatching is a similar thing, except instead of code, what Renarin, and other Truthwatchers, see is the spren (quanta) of everything. Everything. This has nothing to do with his visions. I am in the camp that says his visions are not a result of Truthwatching since Dalinar, Kaladin (dream), and Shallan (drawings), have the same experience (I believe FeatherWriter has a really good and well-written post on this). This brings a new connotation to Illumination. What “illumination” means is to shed light on or clarify. If Lightweavers use Illumination to create illusions (perhaps because of its combination with Transformation), maybe Truthwatchers see through illusions. To relate, if we look at an apple sitting on a table, we see it as still. If we shine a strong light (must be coherent light) on it, however, the shadow that appears will show a hole in the middle; i.e. the solidity of the apple is an illusion. Or, if we shine a light on any object, the boundary of the shadow will appear fuzzy even though the boundary of the object is solid; i.e. static boundaries are illusions – this is due to the property of diffraction and the wave-particle duality that light has, another consequence that quantum theory attempts to explain. The perfect place to extend this theory from merely the physical to the cognitive, emotional, spiritual, etc., is the space of imagination and fiction, which are as real as physical reality. I think this is what Sanderson is experimenting with through the separation of Physical Realm, Cognitive Realm, etc. Truthwatchers might be the only ones able to see what is actually going on. In our world, our eyes often deceive us. Perhaps to see as Renarin does would be to see through the deception of reality. See spren. See what matters. See the stories behind people (Ym). See beauty. And to be able to see would certainly help knowing how to heal whatever is damaged – I am defining ‘heal’ here not as cure or fix, which implies some sort of wholeness, but ‘heal’ as in growth (i.e. Progression not towards, but Progression from). Sometimes a word of encouragement or a pair of comfortable shoes might go a longer way than stabbing someone with a Shardblade, deposing an incompetent king, or summoning highstorms, and this is what Renarin can see. Of course, this is all speculation, and I’m sure what I’ve written is full of holes. So, thoughts?

SPOILERS for WoR During Kaladin's fight with Szeth, Syl changes from a shield to a sword to a spear to a knife. At the time of the recreance, why were all of the spren left in a sword form? On a similar note: can a spren take the form of a projectile weapon? The Radiant could have a massive bow (like Sadeas has at the fight with the chasmfiend) and the spren could take the shape of an arrow, get released from the bow, hit the target, dissipate, and return for another shot).

We know that capturing spren inside gemstones is not only possible, but necessary for fabrials to function. So, how does it work? Does one simply take the gemstone and touch the spren, capturing it? Also, the thought occurred to me that the humans and Listeners could easily have trade relations revolving around the sale of spren. In WoR, we see the Listeners trying—and failing— to conjure even a single creationspren for artform, while Shallan regularly can summon hundreds while drawing. This discovery could have ended the war, and brought in a new era of peace, if the Everstorm hadn't gotten in the way.

In Mistborn, it is shown that Preservation took a piece of his mind and used it to craft Ruin's prison. However, Preservation's power, in the form of the mists, was still in abundance. Thus, we see that Shards can take a piece of their mind and separate it from itself. Except for a few exceptions, these pieces of the Shards mind are called Splinters. If a piece is large enough, it may gain sentience. This event is not uncommon in the Cosmere, and many Shards do it voluntarily. Endowment regularly gives individuals Splinters, in the form of a Divine Breath. Honor, Cultivation, and Odium have all done this to create spren. Even Adonalsium did it, also creating spren. However, if done by an outside force (often/always another Shard), the pieces become so numerous that there is little in the way of a central mind that can, if necessary, regather the broken pieces. This happened with Devotion, Dominion, and Honor. In all these cases, there is strong evidence that the power of the Shards is still out there and perfectly good to be used, from Roshar's Stormlight-bringing highstorms to the power allowing AonDor, Forgery, Dakhor, etc to be practiced. The pieces of the Shard are seen as Seons, Skaze, and what we call Radiantspren. The primary ability of the Shard's mind is the ability to access the Shard's power. A Shard can, without much error, be called a force of nature. The mind of a Shard accesses that force in abundance, and, if large enough, can control the force. The Seons and Skaze of Sel are so numerous and small pieces that they have no noticeable control over the power of those Shards, leaving them to fight in a highstorm-like fury of Investiture. In fact, I would not be surprised if the Cognitive Realm of Sel resembles the outcome of the Everstorm hitting the Highstorm. And that is, basically, what I think spren, Seons, Skaze, and whatever else is.

Not sure if this is the correct place, but just an observation about spren. I have been rereading the Stormlight Archive and it just clicked that every spren seems to be for purpose of human perception the opposite sex of the human they bond with. Shallan has Pattern, Kaladin has Syl, Lift has Wyndle, Jasnah has a male (can't remember the name at the moment). Knowing Brandon, there is a reason for that. Now I'll be obsessing over what the reason might be.

Question the first: Is Shardplate alive (or perhaps more accurately, undead)? I was struck by the similarity in description between shardplate and the skin of Nan Balat's axehound, which got me thinking. Shardplate seems to have many of the characteristics of Roshar's native fauna. Shardplate requires gemhearts to move and function, just like the greatshells. Shardplate will regenerate if broken. Earth crustaceans can regenerate -- I'm not sure if we've heard specifically that Rosharan ones can, but it seems likely. Its natural color is "slate gray" -- perhaps a reference to the geologic physiology of Rosharan wildlife? We know that chasmfiends and the like have symbiotic relationship with spren that allow them to defy the usual laws of biology.The strength and speed shardplate lends the wearer could be the effect of this relationship. Unlike most matter, shardplate can't be cut by shardblades. Shardblades cut the physical aspect of inanimate matter and the (cognitive/spiritual? I forget which) aspect of living matter. If shardplate were neither alive nor dead, but some sort of stormlight-animated husk, then it stands to reason it would interact strangely with shardblades. There has to be some sort of logical reason for this, since artifabrians are able to partially replicate the effect in half-shards. When a surgebinder has breathed in stormlight, they don't have to breathe air (and they can also heal faster, I think?) -- which suggests that stormlight has life-sustaining properties. Back in the days of the Heralds/original radiants, armor didn't need gems to function, right? Maybe back in those days, the plate was still alive in its own right. In modern Roshar, you have to power up your plate with infused gemstones (trapped spren). Wasn't there some scene where Syl reacted uncomfortably to shardplate? I could see why she would be upset with humans cramming random spren into an empty husk with no regard for the natural order. Has this theory been explored? Question the second: Did Lin Davar's secret soulcaster ever really work, or was he actually a radiant? He was in deep with the Ghostbloods or something, right? Maybe like Jasnah, his soulcaster was just for show as well. (Oh, the irony!) Sure, the steward claimed to have been trained to use it -- but did he ever actually accompany lord Davar and the surveyor? Maybe his "training" was just for show. The whole thing just seems fishy.

I don't know if this has already been brought up, but I realized something. I was re-reading the Lift chapter in WoR, when I realized that Wyndle is referring to Cultivation as Mother. I thought that Spren were children, rather splinters, of Honor, so is it possible that Spren could be literal children of Honor and Cultivation? Or at least some Spren. Because we know that they were romantically involved, coming to Roshar. Or, like Feurochemy is a mix of Ruin and Preservation, maybe some orders of the Knights Radiant are a mix of Honor and Cultivation. Although, I am also pretty sure that the Old Magic is of Cultivation. Sorry... Not so much a theory, rather a bunch of thought provoking questions!

Here's my conclusion of two SA so far, and I'm not sure this speculation has been confirmed or common-known, so just have a look: In WoR, we could see that Wyndle, Lift's Nahel spren, called Nightwatcher as "mother", as well as Stormfather indicated Syl as his "daughter". This is the first clue. Secondly, we can be sure that except for the Voidsprens, all Roshar spren are of Honor or/and Cultivation. Thirdly, we know that Stormfather is the cognitive projection of Almighty, referring to as Honor; while Nightwatcher is deeply involved with Culti. So they are the symbol spren of the two Shards. So, can we say that SF and NW are at the position of parents of all spren species? Looking forward to any new suggestions:))

I know a lot of people think the Nightwatcher is a spren of Cultivation, but if the Nightwatcher is associated with "Old Magic," could that mean that it is old, meaning she was there before Honor and Cultivation? Could the Nightwatcher be a Splinter of Adonalsium? What part of the boons/curses behaves Cultivation-ey? It doesn't seem obvious to me. I think we are missing a large part of the picture if we assume the Nightwatcher is primarily a Cultivation thing. Perhaps Cultivation got involved later, but I think Nightwatcher is either native to Roshar or otherwise splintered directly from Adonalsium. What say ye?

Hey Sharders! Sorry about the title, it just feels right though. I know this theory has some holes in it. I can see some main ones myself. But I'm still going to post it. For me it started like this: Could the screams that Szeth hears be related to the screams of the dead Shardblades? I then thought that Szeth could have already been bonded to a spren, and that was why he heard screams. One of the things that go against this is that his Blade is not a spren, and therefore would not scream when he touches it. I also found a WoB that says directly that Szeth isn't bonded to a spren, so... Obviously, Szeth has had some emotional and mental trauma. (Hearing screams whenever you blink can do that to a person.) Anyway, his Honorblade once belonged to a Herald who had to go to a place of pain and torture between Desolations. Could this mean that his Blade "remembers" the pain and makes it's wielder hear screams? That's one idea. Another is that when Honor died, the Honorblades suffered and now scream, or something like that. In short it's like this: He hears screams because he's already bonded to a spren. (I'm pretty sure this one is false) He hears screams because he mentally unstable and his Blade had decided to be reminiscent. (More plausible than the first one) The Honorblades were somehow broken or are suffering now that Honor is dead. (Also plausible) Let me know what you guys think.

I haven't found any other forums that discuss exactly this, so I made a new topic. This forum proved that the Nightwatcher could be/probably is Cultivation. http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/38165-cultivation-is-the-nightwatcher/?hl=%2Bnightwatcher+%2Bspren#entry310555 So lets work with that assumption. We see that Syl, an Honor spren, refers to the Stormfather as her father. The Stormfather is also shown to be a part of Honor that fled when honor was killed. Quick note: Based on the book, elemental spren are from Cultivation, and emotional spren are from Honor. It looks like there might be an equal number of Cultivation spren (Shadow spren, possibly Light Spren) and Honor spren (Honor spren, Cryptics, High Spren) in the Knights Radiant in the end. So, since Wyndle calls the Nightwatcher "mother," what if he is a ..... Cultivation Spren! Wyndle is made up of vines, which you cultivate. Also, one of the surges he provides is growth and regrowth, which seem very reminiscent of the idea of cultivation. Tell me what you think, is Wyndle a Cultivation Spren?

Two WoBs from late 2010 plus an April 2016 WoB provide insight into the relationship between spren and the Knight Radiant (“KR”) Orders. I haven’t seen this discussed anywhere, so I thought I’d take a crack at it. As always, these are MY interpretations of the WoBs. SUMMARY 1. I think Radiantspren are made from two “lesser” spren, each of which Focuses a single power. I speculate a “lesser” spren is a sentient, pre-Shattering spren like gravityspren, firespren and lifespren. 2. IMO, the interaction of an appropriate spren and a “concept or an ideal mixed with an essence” is what defines the KR Orders and determines their placement around the KR “Round Table” (what I call the KR chart at the front of WoK…the KR are Knights, after all).I believe the “concepts/ideals” come from Honor. 3. I think each KR Order’s Secondary Divine Attribute determines that Order’s intrinsic “third” power, the one that’s “of their own.” These include Windrunner squires (“Leadership”) and Lightweaver mnemonic abilities (“Honesty”). 4. “Concepts/ideals” change over time, as human perceptions and ideas change. I believe Surgebinders may have evolved with these changes. This may be the reason Nohadon wrote the in-world Way of Kings – to forever fix his own concepts/ideals of the KR. RELEVANT WOBS Here are the three WoBs I rely on: From October 15, 2010 17th Shard Interview (excerpted, emphasis added): From December 25, 2010 Stormblessed.com Interview (excerpted, emphasis added): From April 23, 2016 JordanCon Report, excerpted, emphasis added): ANALYSIS Spren Combinations I think the reference to “two of the ‘smaller’ magic systems” in the October 2010 WoB means that Radiantspren are a combination of two of the “lesser” spren. Each pre-Shattering spren IMO is the Focus for a different power. That's why Radiantspren can Focus two powers. Some posters speculate that honorspren are an evolved form of windspren, and cryptics are an evolved form of creationspren. I think windspren and creationspren have already" evolved" from Adonalsium spren with an infusion of Cultivation's Investiture. The difference between these spren and honorspren and cryptics, IMO, is Honor's Nahel bond. IOW, an honorspren is a windspren bound by the Stormfather to a KR, and a cryptic is a bonded creationspren. KR Order “Concept/Ideals”: Primary and Secondary “Divine Attributes” The 2016 WoB defines spren as “pieces of Investiture…that because of human or other sapient creatures thinking about…or interacting with the power…take on a life of its own.” Power leaks into the Cognitive Realm to Invest the ideas there. IMO, each Radiantspren represents the power that Invests the idea of their “Primary Divine Attribute.” These Attributes are set forth in the WoK and WoR Ars Arcana charts. In the Meaning of Primary and Secondary Attributes?, I assert Primary Attributes attract the spren to a KR, and Secondary Attributes are “how that person behaves once the Nahel bond is in place.” IOW, spren seek only the Primary Attribute in a KR to decide whether to bond with them. KRs’ Secondary Attributes may be the “something…of their own” peculiar to each Order. Windrunners’ Secondary Attribute of “Leadership” is why they command more squires than other Orders. Lightweavers’ Secondary Attribute of “Honesty” causes their mnemonic abilities – an accurate (“honest”) memory. Skybreakers’ Secondary Attribute of “Confidence” gives them their “almost divine skill” to divide “the innocent from the guilty.” ( Chapters 55, 54 Epigraphs.) KR Order “Essences” Brandon says the “concept/ideal” is “mixed with an essence.” I speculate that the “essences” listed in the WoK/WoR Ars Arcana charts are the same ones the glyphs in the Round Table represent. These “essences” are “what they call the elements of this world.” (December 2010 WoB, quoted above.) I presume “they” refers to the “philosophers from ancient days, who created those tables.” I speculate those “philosophers” were Vorin, although that's uncertain. Khriss created these charts based on Nazh’s input. Jasnah tells us the Vorins destroyed or manipulated pre-Vorin writing. I suggest Khriss/Nazh have no source for their information other than Vorin texts. As Nyali and Skaa have noted, the “essences” on this chart seem mostly to align with earth’s “classical” elements of earth, fire, water and air. “Mostly” because two of the essences do not – the “life” or “aether” (“divine”?) essences associated with the Bondsmiths and Truthwatchers. Thus, the “air” essences align with Windrunners and Skybreakers, who can “fly” by manipulating the Gravitation Surge. The “fire” essences align with Skybreakers and Releasors, who share the Abrasion Surge. The “water” essences align with Lightweavers and Elsecallers, who share the Transformation Surge (presumably because water is “fluid”). The “earth” essences align with Willshapers and Stonewards, who share the Cohesion Surge (presumably because earth coheres into various solid states). The other two Orders, Bondsmiths and Truthwatchers, align with the “life” or “aether” essences. Their specific Surges seem less significant than their “divine” functions: bonding and foreseeing the future. All life requires bonding, and the growth (“cultivation”) of life requires foresight. Brandon says the sequence of Surges (and hence KR Orders) around the Round Table mirror Roshar’s natural forces; their sequence is neither accidental nor arbitrary. This is consistent with the foregoing classification of essences and the following quote from the WoR Chapter 35 Epigraph: the placement of each Nahel bond “was related to the bonds that drive Roshar itself, ten Surges, named in turn and two for each order.” The History of Surgebinders – Changes Over Time Concepts and ideas change over time. Thought is not static. Brandon describes the interaction of thought and power at the Madison OdysseyCon (emphasis added): This WoB highlights the circular nature of the interaction. Spren come from our perceptions, but the KR oaths come from the spren. What would have happened if humans first perceived Surgebinders as “super” men and women unbound to any rules but their own? Would the spren who emulated the Honorblades have changed to be consistent with this perception? Perhaps that’s why Ishar immediately “caused organization to be thrust upon them; as having too great power, he let it be known that he would destroy each and every one, unless they agreed to be bound by precepts and laws.” (WoR Chapter 42 Epigraph). This quote suggests that Ishar created the Orders, or at least their predecessors. But we don’t know what “precepts and laws” he obligated Surgebinders to follow. We also don’t know how accurate this in-world Words of Radiance statement is or whether this in-world book was written before or after Nohadon’s in-world Way of Kings and was therefore influenced by it. It’s possible there WAS no “organization” or bonding to “precepts and laws” before Nohadon, and the in-world Words of Radiance is simply wrong. We do know that Nohadon thought that “not all spren are as discerning as honorspren.” We also know that Surgebinders fought each other during his time. The fact that Surgebinders would seek prominence over one other and fight to achieve it strongly suggests the in-world Words of Radiance author may have been wrong about what Ishar did. Nohadon’s book sought to change that. His parables caused perceptions of Surgebinders to change and the KR to form. Radiantspren changed to accommodate these new perceptions: oaths arose to ensure the incremental accretion of both responsibility and power in equal amounts. Oaths are the “safety valve” to prevent Surgebinder wars and Surgebinder dominance over “mere” humans. The Recreance and the advent of Vorinism destroyed existing Surgebinders and the ability of spren to create new ones (even had they wanted to). Surgebinders and the KR were now viewed as “evil” and untrustworthy. I suggest the spren would not have returned to bond with humans had Nohadon’s book not found its way back from obscurity. This is why I think so many Kholins are potential Surgebinders – they’ve all read the in-world Way of Kings or had read the book read to them, absorbing its ideals.

Hey Sharders! I'm just going to jump right into this. Since the Almighty is dead, what happened to His power? In WoR there is a conversation between the Stormfather and Dalinar that goes like this: Because the Stormfather is the Almighty's "Spren", could it be that He has the Almighty's power? If not, then someone else does... and that doesn't sound like an ideal situation. -KnightRadiant

Brandon’s use of the terms “Powers of Creation,” “Investiture” and “Adonalsium” has confused me. In this post, I explore the precise relationship among these three terms and the implications that flow from that relationship, including some issues of Realmatic theory. SUMMARY 1. “In the beginning,” the Cosmere consisted solely of the Powers of Creation. No mind yet existed to direct the Powers of Creation into any creative acts. 2. Power needs a mind to direct it or it will develop sentience on its own. Eventually the Powers of Creation did develop their own mind, and that mind was Adonalsium. Adonalsium became the Powers of Creation. 3.. Adonalsium’s mind and Soul together were the Powers of Creation, and they pre-existed the three Realms. In a post below, runyan_ft mentions that “Adonalsium” is an anagram for “a mind, a soul.” Because Adonalsium had not yet created the three Realms, he may himself be the “God Beyond” the Realms. Even after the Cosmere’s creation, I believe Adonalsium’s mind and Soul remained outside the Realms rather than become a part of them, although that's unclear. 4. The Powers of Creation were not originally Investiture themselves. Adonalsium’s creations were Investiture: “Investiture is…the building blocks of the Cosmere.” IOW Adonalsium directed the Powers of Creation to create everything else, and that “everything else” consisted of Investiture or the matter or energy Adonalsium converted Investiture into. 5. The Shattering caused the Shards to become “pieces of the Power of Creation.” Unlike Adonalsium, the Shards inhabited all three Realms, as their mortal Vessels did before they became Shards. Thus, the Shattering invested the Shards' Souls with the Powers of Creation, turning the Powers of Creation into Spiritual Realm Investiture. Splinters are even smaller, "self-aware" “pieces of the power of creation,” also composed of Spiritual Realm Investiture. ANALYSIS What Are the “Powers of Creation”? Brandon has given us few descriptions of the “Powers of Creation.” In 2008, Brandon said that the “Shards of Adonalsium [are] pieces of the power of creation itself.” Source (Q 18). In 2012, Zas asked Brandon whether “the power of creation [is] this thing of power that powers Allomancy and powers the Aons, or is the power of creation just what each Shard has?” Brandon responded: “I would say [the power] each Shard has is more the definition.” Source (Q 7). And 10 months ago, Chaos asked Brandon, “Is Adonalsium and the ‘power of creation’ synonymous?” Brandon’s answer: “In some people's usage.” The earlier snippets confirm (to me) that Adonalsium WAS the “Power of Creation” despite Brandon’s later equivocation to Chaos. Shards cannot be “pieces of the power of creation itself” if Adonalsium wasn’t first that power in whole form. The 2008 quote is also noteworthy because of what immediately followed it: “Allomancy, Hemalurgy, Feruchemy are manifestations of this power in mortal form, the ability to touch the powers of creation and use them.” Source (Q 18, emphasis added). IOW different Magic Systems permit mortals to “touch” the Powers - through Connections to the Shards - but that does not thereby convert these mortals into the Powers themselves, into Shards. Mortals can pluck the guitar strings, but they are not the guitar. In the current Cosmere, only the Shards are guitars. Brandon has not defined what the specific Powers of Creation are, only that they do create. Some time ago, Kurkistan argued that Cosmere "magic" applies to the Connections between Souls and Essences, for example, changing the direction of gravity (the relationship between a Soul and an aspect of a Shardworld's Essence). The closest Brandon comes to identifying these Cosmere-wide Connections are the Surges of Roshar, which correspond to the “fundamental forces” of our universe, as modified by magical influences: Q: “The ten Surges on Roshar, I think you said are basically a different set of laws of physics.” A: “Yeah.” Q: “Are those laws of physics consistent throughout the Cosmere?” A: “Um, y-y-yes, to an extent. You would consider, like - it's kind of weird because I based them on the idea of the fundamental forces, but this is kind of like a human construction. Like you could say that physics is pure and natural, but we're still putting things in boxes. And the scientists on Roshar would for instance consider being able to travel between the Cognitive and Physical Realms as a force, the thing that pulls people back and forth between that, as a fundamental force. I don't know if it would fit our definition of a fundamental force.” Source at [1:41:30]. I suggest that the Powers of Creation, therefore, are the magic that both creates Souls and Essences and changes the Connections between them. What is “Investiture”? Let’s start with a review of some relevant WoBs, which we’ve all seen before: Q: “What is the Realmatic composition of investiture?” A: “Investiture is intended to be the building blocks of the Cosmere so I would say for the most part it transcends the different realms. Probably more of the Spiritual if anything but more accurately it transcends them.” Source (Q 39). Q: “What can you tell me about investiture?” A: “That is the word for someone or something which has gained a portion of the magic of Adonalsium…” Source (Q 45). Q: “Is there a Cosmere-specific term you use to describe, say, a Shard's power inside someone?” A: “In my own terms, I refer to all of this as types of investiture. The degree, and effects, can be very different – but those people are invested.” Source (Q 13). Brandon’s focus on “building blocks” and someone or something that has “gained” magic distinguishes Investiture from the Powers of Creation, at least pre-Shattering. Investiture seems to be the result of Adonalsium's creation process, enabling an Invested person or object to “touch” or “use” part of the “magic of Adonalsium” (the Powers of Creation). Brandon has said that objects have a limit to how much Investiture they can hold (Q 16). People apparently also have such a limit. Here’s how Brandon described Vin’s use of the mists to fuel her Allomancy: “So when a person is burning metals, they aren't using Preservation's body as a fuel so to speak — though they are tapping into the powers of creation just slightly. When Vin burns the mists, however, she's doing just that — using the essence of Preservation, the Shard of Adonalsium itself [the powers of creation] — to fuel Allomancy. Doing this, however, rips ‘troughs’ through her body. It’s like forcing far too much pressure through a very small, fragile hose. That much power eventually vaporizes the corporeal host, which is acting as the block and forcing the power into a single type of conduit (Allomancy) and frees it to be more expansive.” Source (Q 18). At the point of vaporization, Vin is no longer “Invested” by Preservation. She instead becomes the holder of the Preservation Shard. Again, that is the difference between a Shard and other magicians – an Invested person can access the Powers of Creation through his Connection to a Shard, but a Shard IS the Powers of Creation (or at least pieces of them) through the Shard's Spiritual Investiture. What Is Adonalsium? Let’s start with this well-known WoB: “Somebody needs to hold the magic. If no one holds the magic, the magic will start to gain sentience. Interesting and bizarre things happen then...” Source (Q 47). The mindless Powers of Creation eventually did develop a mind to direct them. That mind, that directing creative entity, was Adonalsium. And he began to create the Cosmere by Investing in it. Because Brandon calls Shards pieces of the powers of creation, Adonalsium himself must have become the Powers of Creation. REALMATIC IMPLICATIONS Was Adonalsium Part of the Cosmere’s Realms? By definition, the Powers of Creation predate the Cosmere’s Realms. Before Adonalsium used the Powers to create (that is, used himself to create), there was no Investiture, no “building blocks of the Cosmere.” That means “in the beginning” there were no Realms, since Investiture “transcends the Realms.” That suggests that Adonalsium’s mind, when it did coalesce, was simply a property of the Powers of Creation. As runyan_ft points out in his post below, “Adonalsium” is an anagram for “a mind, a soul.” Did the Powers migrate to the Spiritual Realm after its creation? It’s unclear. Though the Powers are not Investiture, they might have co-existed in the Spiritual Realm with Investiture. The M:SH scene where Preservation shoves Kelsier “upstairs” to see Time suggests the Powers of Creation were then located in the Spiritual Realm. But that scene occurs after the Shattering, when the Shards (who did exist in all three Realms – see below) had become "pieces of the Powers of Creation." It’s equally unclear whether Adonalsium’s mind ever became part of the Cognitive Realm. The Cognitive Realm is the place of perceptions. But Adonalsium was God – he was perfect. His mind either continued outside the Realmatic structure altogether or it remained a property of the Powers of Creation that migrated to the Spiritual Realm. The Spiritual Realm is the place of perfection, of Platonic forms and ideals. The perfect mind should exist only in the Spiritual Realm. If Adonalsium did become part of the Cosmere’s Realms, the best we can say is that Adonalsium co-inhabited the Spiritual Realm with his creations. It's possible Adonalsium's migration to the Spiritual Realm caused him to become Spiritual Realm Investiture at that time. Alternatively, the then-existing Spiritual Realm Investiture - Souls, Essences and Connections – might have remained separate from the Powers of Creation. We do know that, pre-Shattering, Adonalsium did allow some Souls to touch him (whether he then consisted of separately constituted Powers of Creation or as Spiritual Realm Investiture), since magic existed before the Shattering. I believe, however, that Adonalsium remained outside the Realms. He WAS the “God Beyond” the Realms. To the extent Adonalsium Invested himself in the Realms, or created Splinters of himself in the Cosmere (like he did on Roshar), or left “ambient magic” on certain planets, he entered and left parts of himself in the Realms. But I believe his full creative force stood apart and “beyond.” The Shards’ Exist in the Three Realms Pre-Ascension, the Shards’ Vessels were all mortals composed of Investiture who existed in all three Realms. Each Vessel had its own body, Soul and mind, its own personality, and its own Connections. Sazed has said that the Powers of Creation did not have a personality before the Shards acquired the Powers (HoA Chapter 55 Epigraph). I’ve proposed that Shard Mandates (Intents) developed precisely for this reason – each Shard’s personal Connection to the aspect of Adonalsium that became their Mandate. While ascension vaporized the Vessels, their personalities and Connections remained. I believe the Shattering invested the Shards with the Powers of Creation, causing the Powers to became part of the Shards’ Souls, Spiritual Realm Investiture. The Powers of Creation became the bulk of the Shards’ Spiritual DNA that comprises their Souls. (I say the Powers are only part of the Shards’ Souls, because the Vessels’ original Souls still seem to be lurking within them. The Vessels do drop out of the Shards when they die, as Leras, Ati and Vin all did.) Also, unlike Adonalsium’s mind, originally a property of the Powers of Creation, Shard minds continue to occupy the Cognitive Realm. Adonalsium, IOW, was either “beyond” the Realms or was purely Spiritual, except to the extent he chose to manifest himself in some other Realm. The Shards exist in all three Realms, and the Powers of Creation are now part of the Shards' Souls in the Spiritual Realm. That is why Brandon says the Shards are “mostly” Spiritual, but transcend the Realms. It is the difference between a true “God” and the Greek gods subject to their mortal foibles that Brandon has described the Shards as being. Splinters vs. Other Shardic Investiture Splinters are carved-out bits of a Shard's Spiritual Realm Investiture (the Powers of Creation) that have developed their own self-awareness. Source (Q 15). Unlike the resot of a Shard's Spiritual Realm Investiture, Splinters can independently create magic. They have no need to Connect back to their Shard for Power. By themselves, Splinters can perform the same magic as their Shard, though on a smaller scale. Other forms of Investiture allow a Connection to their Shard, but it is the Shard’s Power that performs the magic. This difference can be seen by comparing Divine Breath with mere Breaths. Divine Breaths are Splinters, but mere Breaths are not. A Returned, bonded with a Divine Breath, can perform magic on its own. Breaths OTOH Connect an Awakener to Endowment's Investiture. This Connection enables the Awakener to "touch" and "use" Endowment's magic. IMO post-Shattering Splinters carry the Mandate (Intent) of the Splintered Shard, despite the following WoB from August 2011: Josh: “Do Splinters have their own Intent, in addition to the Shards?” Brandon Sanderson: “Splinters often have their own intent.” “Intent” is a non-canonical term that Chaos invented in February 2011. While Brandon from time to time has used the term in the sense that Chaos uses it, it’s unclear whether six months after Chaos’ post Brandon would have interpreted the question as referring to “intent” in other than its normal meaning. To the contrary, the HoA Chapter 79 Epigraph (published in late 2008) uses the word “Mandate” to refer to the concept of Shard compulsion: “[Power without] a mind to oversee it [has] only a vague will of its own, tied in to the mandate of its abilities. [Emphasis added.]” Evidence: we’ve never seen a Splinter act other than in accordance with its Shard’s mandate, whether it be Divine Breath, Radiantspren (which have “meshed” mandates of both Honor and Cultivation) or Aons. But we have seen Radiantspren with their own “intent” – that is, personality and motivation – Syl, Pattern and Ivory. I think that’s what Brandon’s statement means. Adonalsium’s Splinters would not be subject to a Mandate. That’s why Brandon has said, “Spren could exist on a [world without a Shard], but they would be like the minor spren. You wouldn't find Syl, but you would find something like lifespren.” Source (Q 53). FINAL THOUGHTS: OVERARCHING THEME OF THE COSMERE SAGA In the WoR Epilogue (Kindle p. 1080, emphasis added), Wit/Hoid has the following conversation with Jasnah: “You’re so convinced that there is no God.” “The Almighty is – “ “Oh,” Wit said, “I don’t mean the Almighty…I just think you’ve been looking for God in the wrong places.” “I suppose that you’re going to tell me where you think I should look.” “You’ll find God in the same place you’re going to find salvation from this mess,” Wit said. “Inside the hearts of men.” “Curiously,” Jasnah said, “I believe I can actually agree with that, though I suspect for different reasons than you imply.” I believe this conversation expresses the overarching theme of the Cosmere Saga. In a post-Nietzsche universe where “God is dead,” we must rely on our “innate investiture,” our “spark of life” for salvation. God may be dead, but, to paraphrase the last sentence of William Faulkner’s The Sound and the Fury, “We endure.” EDITS: I've made a number of edits to this post to reflect the comments made by other posters below. Some of these comments were purely editorial, such as the inputs of Argel, who suggested a more readable “Summary,” and runyan_ft, who pointed out a relevant Reddit post. Other changes result from the debates you'll find in those posts. I urge readers to look at those debates, because they contain more information than this edited post and highlight the collaborative nature of theory-building. As examples, there's some interesting discussion about the meaning of "living" investiture and much more about the nature of Splinters. My thanks to all who have participated . Regards!