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I was recently re-reading the ending of Words of Radiance, particularly the scene where Dalinar speaks his first/second ideals, thus becoming a bondsmith. However, he joined with the Stormfather, who was against this, and reacted angrily upon Dalinar's speaking the First Ideal. While I was reading, it occurred to me that in the Wheel of Time series, forming a similar bond to create an unwilling Warder was seen by the characters as little better than rape, due to the man's inability to resist the bond. Essentially, Dalinar has forced an ancient and sentient spren into a mental and magical bonding without it's consent or agreement, forcing said spren to provide him with the ability to control Stormlight, and at the same time, putting the Stormfather's very existence into danger if Dalinar abandons his vows. In your opinion, was this an immoral action?

The Desolation starts when Taln cries uncle, right? But spren started bonding people again years before he showed up. How did they know he was going to crack soon?

So, its been kicked around for a while on here that there are distinct levels within the spren-hierarchy, and this quote from the Stormfather in chapter4 confirms it: True spren are obviously those capable to sentience via the Nahel bond. Given the 10 orders, we know that there are at least 9 variants of true spren. The Bondsmiths, which bond unique spren, obviously lack a single, cohesive spren type. We know 4/9 true spren without a doubt. Honorspren bond Windrunners, Highspren bond Skybreakers, Liespren (Cryptics) bond Lightweavers, and Cultivationspren bond Edgedancers. This leaves the question of the remaining types of true spren. We have seen the spren associated with Truthwatchers via Ym, but we have no clue what this spren is associated with. What quality do Ym, Stump, and possibly Renarin have in common? Compassion? Empathy? This fits for Ym and Stump, but Renarin is uncertain on a few levels. Inkspren, which I believe is a name from a WoB, is another true spren we have seen but are unsure about the nature of. Scholarship possibly? It seems, so far, that true spren are associated with concepts connected to higher order thought. Honor, law, cultivation, and lies all involve uniquely human concepts, as opposed to strictly nature/emotion-based. In addition to speculation on the natures of true spren we have seen, like inkspren and truthwatcher spren, what other orders of true spren does everyone think exist? I would love to see something like a negotiationspren/tradespren/commercespren, mostly because I would LOVE to see Rysn get some powers (I know this is unlikely due to her larkin). Also, commerce/negotiation seems kind of on par with the other concepts. So what other true spren do people think are a thing? I keep wracking my brain but can't seem to come up with any more. I would love to find out what other ideas are out there!

I've wondered about that Santhid that Shallan Encounters. We've seen that Brandon hasn't told us everything about Greatshells and their gemhearts, and left the scene with the cremlings vague. There's a lot to find out about the fauna of Roshar. 1 - Why did the santhid choose to save Shallan? 2 - What is the relationship between santhids and greatshells? 3 - Are santhids actually a small kind of greatshell? 4 - Would santhids have the same kind of spren-bonds as greatshells? People wouldn't know, because they wouldn't have found any gemhearts because it's considered unlucky to hunt them. (Mraize, a seemingly high-ranking member of the Ghostbloods has a santhid scull in his collection. Maybe he would know?) 5 - How does the anatomy of a santhid work, because their tentacles I don’t think would work like a jellyfish’s. Perhaps it would move like a portuguese man o'war, but faster, and it would be able to steer with its fins. 6 - How intelligent are the greatshells? That santhid seemed very intelligent. 7 - How sentient are the spren bonded to greatshells? 8 - What do the spren get out the deal of binding with them, and how big are those spren, compared to the kind that lessens the effect of gravity? 9 - How do greatshells have gemhearts in the first place? They’d be pretty old, each one, if an actual gem that big forms inside of them, and if that’s how it works, what do they eat that gives them the minerals needed to form them?

So, I remember reading a theory on here a while back which argued that Nahel bond spren (i.e. Honorspren, highspren, cryptics) are at the top of the food chain in Shadesmar, while other spren are essentially lower life forms. This theory said that each KR spren has 2 specific lower spren associated with it. For example, I believe it was argued that windspren and gravityspren are the lower spren for Windrunners. We see gravityspren when Kaladin uses Adhesion, and he is commonly surrounded by windspren while using Gravitation to fly. During my current Edgedancer reread, Lift used Progression to make a plant grow. Afterwards, she was surrounded by lifespren. This makes me think that lifespren are one of the orders subservient to cultivationspren. Obviously, lifespren are associated with Progression. This makes me wonder what everyone thinks is associated with Abrasion. Is it a spren we've seen before or an unknown order? Is there a spren for speed or grace that we have not seen? I wouldn't be surprised, if concepts (like honor or truth/lies), emotions (anger, fear), and physical (hunger, exhaustion) attributes are all associated with types of spren. Shallan, I think, has also had experiences with one of the spren a level down from Cryptics. She is constantly surrounded by creationspren, much the same way Kaladin is constantly swarmed by windspren during his early chapters. Creationspren seem to be associated with Illumination, which makes me wonder what spren is associated with Transformation. Additionally, are "mindless" Cryptics without Nahel bonds essentially creationspren, the way Syl claimed to be the same as a windspren before bonding Kaladin? Jasnah is a mystery, as we know neither of the orders associated with inkspren. We know she shares one with Shallan, via Transformation, but we don't know what it is. IIRC, the name of inkspren is from a WoB, so what is their deal exactly? Would Ivory identify that way, like Syl naming herself an honorspren, or change it up like Pattern? Regardless, what concept do inkspren represent? Writing in any form? Scholarship? Knowledge? I like the idea of scholarship because of Ivory's martial appearance. Jasnah is a perfect example of how the written word can be used as a form of warfare, and I love the idea of Jasnah bonding a spren born of that attitude. Back to the main point, Renarin is relatively easy with this theory. Assuming he is a Truthwatcher, we have seen the spren associated with both Progression and Illumination. If he's a Truthwatcher, we can expect to see a lot of lifespren and creationspren in his future. Sooo, what does everyone think? What spren are associated with each Surge/Radiant, especially the orders we've seen? What is the deal with Ivory? Though I've been lurking for a while, this is only my third post (the first was requesting Warbreaker, the second a very short comment), so I'm sorry if this is all over the place or rambling!

It says- vex odium convince him he can lose, he cannot afford to lose again. Unite them. Appoint a champion (to fight odium) how can a human fight a god. So unite them isn't the high princes or the kingdoms of roshar. It is the spren (who are splinters of honor). Unite them, put them back together. This champion will hold the shard honor. And Brandon hinted that odium took up the powers of another shard. And then he shattered honor. So this extra shard is giving odium a lot more power. After every desolation some of this power was lost. So if odium loses again he will have less power than cultivation.

It says- vex odium convince him he can lose, he cannot afford to lose again. Unite them. Appoint a champion (to fight odium) how can a human fight a god. So unite them isn't the high princes or the kingdoms of roshar. It is the spren (who are splinters of honor). Unite them, put them back together. This champion will hold the shard honor. And Brandon hinted that odium took up the powers of another shard. And then he shattered honor. So this extra shard is giving odium a lot more power. After every desolation some of this power was lost. So if odium loses again he will have less power than cultivation.

I witnessed shadow bands at the peak of the eclipse today in Oregon. It was 99.96% totality where I was. The shadow bands are an unexplained phenomenon and made me immediately think of spren. I count myself lucky to have experienced this and it was somewhat moving.

I had always assumed that Shallan's soul had "broken" and allowed spren to enter when she killed her mom. Or, maybe even later when she killed her dad. But then I was rereading it, and realized that her mom tried to kill her because she was a Radiant. She also had a shardblade. That means her soul was broken even before then. What could have happened? Was it something her dad did?

What would happen to a spren if a member of the Knights Radiant died? Would it go insane like the Shardblade spren, or would it return to the cognitive realm?

So my entire theory is this: The day before Lopen succeeds in breathing in Stormlight, a spren is watching Elhokar about to bond him and Lopen tries and fails to breath Stormlight. Then he's like "What were those Oaths Kaladin talked about?" Then he says the first Oaths (and maybe the second one for whatever order it is, or a truth if it's a Cryptic) and this makes the spren bond him. Basically the point is him bonding a Spren was a complete accident.

I'm so sorry if this topic has been posted on before, I'm new here. When my friend and I were discussing what three magic systems we've seen Hoid using before, Stormlight came up as a possible one. For Hoid to be able to use Stormlight, would he need a spren? Or are spren reserved for the Knights Radiant? And if Hoid does have a spren (or ends up obtaining one later on), would it worldhop with him?

Spren need to be resurrected, hence the 10-second wait for "regular" shardblades. But these blades never act as spren - for all intents and purposes, they remain lifeless constructs that merely seem to feed on the spren's power. Why don't the spren speak? Could it be said that 'resurrection' isn't really a good term for describing what happens when a Shardbearer summons his Blade? What term, then, should we use - what exactly is going on here?

This post brings in some of my thoughts on Oathbringer, Voidbringers, and Voidbinding but also builds on a lot of the ideas I've read on this site. I’ve been speculating about the title of the book, Oathbringer, (and its likely in-world literary counterpart and Dalinar’s old sword) in light of the idea that “void” refers to the breaking of oaths, bonds, and contracts. If this is the case, “Oathbringer” serves as a very clear opposite to Voidbringer in a more substantial way. We know that this book will be about Bondsmiths, but I suspect that it is also necessary to lay the groundwork for the final two books of the first five. The idea that Roshar is bond-focused, rather than spren-focused (borrowing from others here!), makes a lot of sense when thinking about the tactics and strategies of the parties involved. There are those who create protective, consensual bonds and oaths to protect Roshar, and those who void oaths and (likely) form twisted, nonconsensual bonds. Spren are willing, and perhaps unwilling, partners in forming these bonds, too. In addition to learning more about the significance of bonds and oaths and the role of Voidbringers and Voidbinding, I think the consensual nature of bonds and oaths will come into play. We know that it’s possible for Listeners to voluntarily give up forms, so the bondage of the Parshmen is even more terrible. If humans used something on the void-side of things to deprive the Parshmen of forms, that would demonstrate a corruption of the honor-based system of bonds, as humans showed a willingness to use voidlike tactics. I’m also thinking about the bondage of spren. Nahel spren, as far as we know, choose to bond, sometimes even against the wishes of other spren in the Cognitive Realm. But we’ll likely be seeing more about the consequences of bondage, perhaps especially with regard to spren trapped in gemstones against their will or against nature. From WoR, it seems that the Parshendi may have started down a dangerous path when they learned how to trap spren, rather than attract them: And who knows what the dark side of fabrial science might be? We might find out more in this book, though. At any rate, I think that Oathbringer will help set up the opposition between forming a bond and voiding or twisting a bond, while also exploring the nature of bonds made freely and bonds that more closely resemble bondage. This will establish more specific stakes for the last two books. I’m interested to see where others think this possible focus for the book might lead! P.S. Sorry if I got carried away with hiding spoilers on a spoiler board!

Hey guys, has anybody asked Brandon about Hoid and whether or not any of the spren are paying attention to him or vice-versa? I can't find any relevant WoB's in my searching. I imagine Hoid, who seems to be collecting different magic abilities, would be highly interested in having a nahel bond, giving him access to surgebinding. if anyone has a relevant WoB or information on this it would be highly appreciated

So, apologies if this was already discussed elsewhere and I missed it, but... In Edgedancer, Wyndle mentions 'Keenspren' briefly, with the implication that they are difficult to understand. I was wondering if anyone who read a non-English version might know if the concept for them is keen as in clever, keen as in literally sharp, or keen as in the sound (a wail).

For some months now, I’ve been working on creating a framework for all of the magic systems of Roshar that combines everything we know about them and makes predictions for that which we don’t know. This topic is the end result. Since I’m aiming for completeness, there will be things here that are already well understood, as well as things that I haven’t seen proposed before. So, with apologies for the sheer length that it has become, allow me to present my framework. Magics by Shardic Composition Let's start by listing the various Rosharan powers and classifying them by the Shards which power them. Magic Shardic Composition Surgebinding Honour & Cultivation Ancient Fabrials Honour & Cultivation Modern Fabrials Cultivation Old Magic Cultivation Voidbinding Honour & Odium Voidbringer Powers Cultivation & Odium Surgebinding My classification of Surgebinding shouldn't be raising any eyebrows since it is well understood that each type of Radiant spren is some mix of both Honour and Cultivation. However, let's take a moment to consider how the two powers manifest in Surgebinding as this will provide insight into how I've classified the other magics. While there are many different interpretations of honour, they ultimately all come down to the interaction between two or more people: in a universe with only one person, it would be impossible for them to act honourably (nor to act dishonourably), for there would be no one for them to act honourably towards. This duality is reflected, I believe, in Honour's magic. The most obvious example of this would be the necessity to bond spren in order to perform it. Now, you could argue that since the listeners were bonding spren long before the Shards came to Roshar, this would mean that bonding spren is not related to Honour specifically. However, the listener bond is, by its very nature, very different to the Nahel bond; seemingly less a mutually beneficial partnership, and more a natural process. I would contend, therefore, that this is an example of Honour incorporating this aspect of the Rosharan environment into his magic out of necessity. I do not think that this idea of duality is limited only to the bonding of spren, however; I think that it extends even to the way that the powers form. You likely noticed that in my listing of the various magics that there is no system that is entirely of Honour. I think that Honour's nature means that he requires a second Shard to mix his power with in order to form a magic system. In other words, it would not be in his nature to form a magic that is purely his own. Another example of Honour's effect on Surgebinding is in its structure: the way that Surgebinders are divided up precisely into distinct predetermined Radiant Orders based off of their interpretation of honour, and their determination to emulate that ideal. And also, the way that the powers are divided up between the different orders. This is a rigid and inflexible framework, much like the Radiant’s Ideals can be. In short, this is where the "binding" in Surgebinding comes from: Honour is bound to another Shard and the Radiants to their spren, their Orders, and their Ideals. So if Honour provides a structure to Surgebinding, what does Cultivation provide? I think that it is through Cultivation that Surgebinders get to manipulate the Surges. If we look at the spren associated with each of the Shards, Honour's spren are those of emotion, again linking back to human interaction. Cultivation's spren, however, are the spren of nature, so it makes sense that it is Cultivation's power that gives access to the natural Surges. Now, I can imagine it being argued that since on Scadrial, all the magic systems revolve around metals, surely all the magic systems of Roshar should likewise revolve around the Surges, not simply the ones associated with Cultivation. However, I would argue that this is a false analogy: the metals on Scadrial act as a focus, the Surges on Roshar do not. The powers produced by the Metallic Arts (with the exceptions of Allomantic iron, steel, aluminium, and chromium) are not related to metal themselves. Therefore, whilst all of the Rosharan magic systems should share a common focus, it should not necessarily be the case that they all share the Surges. Modern Fabrials Now with that established, it should be obvious why I think that Fabrials are a magic system purely of Cultivation. They lack the rigid structure that I have associated with Honour, and while the spren are still part of the magic, they are trapped inside the gemstones rather than working with the user as you would expect in Honour’s magic. This leaves Cultivation as the only reasonable candidate, which in turn means that they must be utilising the surges in some way. Although, without the rigidity of Honour’s framework, the way they manifest is apparently quite different. Ancient Fabrials The first thing to note here is that these fabrials do not seem to have much in common with modern fabrials, to the point that I suspect that calling them fabrials at all is a misnomer. Modern fabrials all function by trapping a spren in a gemstone, ancient fabrials do not appear to do this. Spren are clearly involved in some way, just as they are in every other magic; we in fact see this in the operation of the Oathgates. In order to activate them, you need a Shardblade, i.e. the physical manifestation of a spren that is part Cultivation and part Honour. Moreover, the spren needs to be alive. This implies that the person operating the Oathgate needs to be working together with the spren, which sounds just like an Honour based magic. This would mean that the ancient fabrials are far more closely related to the Surgebindings than they are to modern fabrials. Which makes sense given that the effects we have seen (Soulcasting, Regrowth, Transportation) appear to be the same as various Surgebindings. In fact, when Nale heals Szeth with one of these ancient fabrials, he actually refers to it as a Surgebinding. Ideally I would compare the operation of the Oathgates to that of other ancient fabrials, unfortunately though, we haven’t really seen enough of these yet to be able to draw anything meaningful from them. The Old Magic This isn’t a magic like others on this list: it's not something that people can perform; instead, it seems to be practised solely by the Nightwatcher, about whom the only things we can really say with confidence are that she is some kind of “mega-spren”, closely related to Cultivation. This would suggest then that the Old Magic can be described as similar to a sapient, self-operating fabrial. I don’t think that there’s much more that can be said at this point without additional information about the Old Magic or the Nightwatcher. Voidbinding This brings us to the only magic system on the list which I believe to be unrelated to Cultivation. If we look at the Voidbinding chart from the back of The Way of Kings, it is immediately obvious that the structure of the magic is the same as Surgebinding. It even has "binding" in its name, hence why I think that it is of Honour. However, if we look at the symbols where, on the Surgebinding chart, the Surges are placed, we see not the symbols for the Surges, but a twisted version of them. Hence I do not think that Voidbinding will be related to the Surges at all, and hence Cultivation has no part in Voidbinding. Voidbringer Powers And finally, we come to the powers that were demonstrated at the end of Words of Radiance by the Voidbringers. Why do I think that this isn't Voidbinding? We have a WoB that we haven't seen Voidbinding yet, but we have seen these powers, therefore they must be something different. Additionally we have the following WoBs: Since the Voidbringers are forms of the Parshendi, and the Parshendi are not of Honour, if my classification of Voidbinding as being of Honour is correct, then the Voidbringers cannot be Voidbinders. So, why do I think that the Voidbringers are related to Cultivation rather than purely of Odium? If we have a look at Dalinar’s vision of the Purelake, we see him looking for a voidspren, which ultimately ends up animating a thunderclast. The voidspren is described to him as: “A spren that doesn’t act like it should”, not as a new type of spren. And apparently this is a result of the spren interacting with Sja-anat, an Unmade. What’s more, the spren they end up chasing has a resemblance to a riverspren, a type of nature spren, which is therefore related to Cultivation. I would propose, therefore, that the Unmade corrupt spren to make voidspren. When the spren was originally of Cultivation they go on to form Voidbringers and thunderclasts and the like. And when the spren was originally of Honour, they will bond to form Voidbinders. On Initiation The first thing to note here is that not all magics require an Initiation in order to be used. Some, such as Haemalurgy, are universal and can be used by anyone. Modern fabrials also seem to fall under this category. In order to use a magic, you need three things: intent, Investiture, and a focus. In the case of fabrials, the Investiture and the focus are both incorporated into the device itself. In other words, the user only needs to provide the intent to use the fabrial in order for it to work. The crucial part here is that the user does not need to access an external source of Investiture themselves: the fabrial does that for them. The Old Magic is not relevant to this discussion since it is restricted to the domain of the Nightwatcher. Also, I don’t think we’ve seen enough of the ancient fabrials yet in order to determine whether they would also be universal or not, so, for the time being, I’ll pass over these two magics. The remaining magics all seem to require Initiation. Khriss’ comments on Initiation in Elantris’ Ars Arcanum suggest that the method of Initiation across all of the magics on any given world is consistent. I think it should be fairly obvious, therefore, that the method of Initiation here is the spren bond. All of the remaining magics utilise a spren bond in some form, and Syl has openly admitted to Kaladin that she is the reason that he is able to Surgebind. On the Rosharan Focus So far I’ve seen theories on the focus claim that it’s either the gemstones, or the spren, or the spren bond. Firstly, I don’t think that it can be the spren bond: I have already demonstrated that it is the method of Initiation and I don’t see how it can be both. Also, as previously noted, not all magics require a spren bond, but all magics require a focus which is consistent across all Rosharan magics, therefore if the spren bond were the focus, this would be a contradiction. Things get interesting when we start to examine the spren and the gemstones as candidates for the focus, however. When examining Soulcasting, the gemstones act exactly as you would expect the focus to, the type of gemstone used determines the result of the transformation. However, this does not appear to be the case with any other magic that we have seen, which should mean that the gemstones can’t be the focus. The spren seem like an ideal candidate for the focus since they are, like the gemstones, present in some capacity in all Rosharan magics. Moreover, as they are capable of changing their form at will, if they are the focus then they should be able to direct the form that the power takes by themselves. And, we saw in the climax to Words of Radiance, Syl was able to accurately determine the weapon that Kalaldin wished her to form without him having to actively communicate it to her, it would follow then, that the Radiant spren could do the same thing to provide their Radiant with the power that they wished to use. And since in modern fabrials, the spren would presumably be trapped in a single form, it would account for why fabrials each have only a single function. There is, however, a problem with using spren as the Rosharan focus, and it is essentially the same problem that we ran into when we tried considering the gemstones as the focus: when considering Soulcasting, it is clearly the gemstones, not the spren that is determining the result of the transformation. So both the spren and the gemstones must be the focus, but neither the spren nor the gemstones can be the focus! To resolve this, I think we’re going to need to take a closer look at what a focus actually is. To start off with, I don’t think that a focus is actually physical. Everything in the Cosmere exists to some extent across all three Realms, so that we might be able to see or interact with it in the Physical Realm does not mean that this is where the magical interaction is happening. If we look at AonDor, the focus like in all Selish magics is shapes, however, an Aon will continue to function even if you were to destroy its physical representation. Indeed Elantrians can draw Aons in the air, which shouldn’t have a physical body at all. And of course, on Nalthis, they use Commands as a focus which, being auditory, likewise shouldn’t have a physical body. I suspect that it is in the Cognitive Realm that these gain a more concrete, not to mention, permanent, form. So, Investiture flows from the Spiritual Realm to the Cognitive Realm where it interacts with the focus and is filtered down into the Physical Realm in the form determined by that focus. But, if the focus is cognitive, then shouldn’t it be possible for it to be something more abstract in nature, such as a function? We know that gemstones and spren have some kind of relationship with each other. Just consider Navani’s notebook: Could it be the case that spren and gemstones are bound together as variables in a cognitive function that is acting as the focus on Roshar? When spren are imprisoned in gemstones, is that what’s really happening, or are they instead being constrained to the same space as part of such a function? This is what I think is happening here: neither the spren nor the gemstone is the focus, but they are both components in a kind of complex focus. How the Honourblades Work So, I’ve been repeatedly coming back to the idea that the spren are involved in some way in every magic on Roshar, yet you might have noticed that the Honourblades are an exception to this. They allow their wielder to Surgebind, but they are not themselves spren. In fact, originally, the Honourblades would power Surgebinding by opening a direct conduit to Honour, similar to how Allomancy opens a conduit to Preservation, meaning that even gemstones wouldn’t be needed to provide Stormlight. Thus, the Heralds might not have needed either part of the focus that I specified above. Does this not contradict my argument for the focus? I don’t think so; I think that the way Honour hacked the magic in the Honourblades means that this isn’t an issue. When Preservation hacked Allomancy so that Vin was able to burn the mists, she no longer needed the metals for Allomancy. And similarly, when Vin became Preservation, she was able to power Allomancy for Elend without him having access to the metals. Based off of this, I think it’s clear that a focus is not required when a Shard directly intervenes like this. One final point: it could perhaps be argued that the Honourblades represent the true form of Surgebinding and that the Nahel bond is the true hack since the spren copied the Honourblades. I disagree with this interpretation, though. I think that the Radiant spren have always been able to form the Nahel bond and create Surgebinders since Honour first Invested in Roshar, they simply didn’t know that they could do this. When Honour hacked the system by creating the Honourblades though, the spren were able to figure out that they had this ability from seeing what the Honourblades could do. TL;DR Given the size and scope of this treatise, it is impossible to easily summarise the entire piece, however, a few key points are as follows: Honour’s influence causes a magic to take on a predefined, rigid structure. Voidbinding does not manipulate the Surges at all. Spren Bonds are the basis for Initiation. Roshar has a complex focus which utilises both spren and gemstones as components. The Honourblades negate the need for a focus.

I just completed a reread of TWOK, my first after finishing all of the other works in the Cosmere, and had a thought about the Dawnshards... The only things we know for sure about the Dawnshards is that: They are not the same thing as regular shards on Roshar (shardblades), nor are they they same thing as the Honorblades which were held by the Heralds. -- WOB They played a huge role in protecting humanity on Roshar from the desolations in the past, and Honor is worried about the fact that they are now lost -- Dalinar's final vision in TWOK They can bind "any creature voidish or mortal" which apparently is a special property -- Poem of Ista Given all this info, it seems to me that most people thing the Dawnshards were some sort of ancient Spren that could bind to voidish and/or mortal beings that conferred unique powers that are now lost. Perhaps the people these Dawnshards bound were the Dawnsingers. It's a great theory, but I've got another, simpler one... What if the "Dawnshards" are actually just another way to describe Shards of Adonalsium? I started the Cosmere with the Stormlight Archives, so it has always confused me just how many different things are described as "Shards." What if, on Roshar, the BIG shards, the "complete" Shards of Adonalsium (ie Honor, Cultivation, Odium), are referred to as the Dawnshards in order to differentiate them from different, regular "shards" which are actually shards of shards (spren). Here's why I think this might fit: They are the shards that existed on Roshar at the "dawn" of creation, ergo they are the "Dawnshards" "Talk of them was obviously prevalent among those recording the early mythologies" They can bind any creature voidish or mortal. As far as we know, there aren't any limitations on picking up or holding a Shard of Adonalsium They existed some time ago and played a part in helping humanity fight off the desolations (Honor and Cultivation vs. Odium) But they are lost now (Honor and Cultivation are dead/splintered), and Honor is worried that humanity can't fight off the desolations (Odium) without them The magic system on Roshar seems somewhat different in present times (post-splintering?) than in Dalinar's visions of the past (pre-splintering?) If I'm right, then this gives the following quote form the Poem of Ista new meaning... Someone tried to hold on to a Shard of Adonalsium, probably Honor, presumably after its original bearer died. They must not have been able to hold onto it because we know now that Honor is splintered. Maybe this is why the person in the poem had to "crawl" up the steps. What do you guys think? Poke holes in this for me...

We know that when Kaladin uses Syl, she can appear as a sword, shield or spear. It is also because of their bond that Kaladin is a Windrunner. Would it be possible to bond with more than one spren or more than one type as doing this would grant extra abilities. Or is it possible to have two of the same type of spren to augment your already existing powers. Because if you could, then you could have one as a shield and the other as a sword. I'm only asking this because people without a bond can dual wield shardblades.

First Rock calls the Honor blade "him" does this mean Honor is still in the honorblades? But then makes the same reference to the plateau, which means the oath gates, are (were???) spren? I'm not sure but I feel this MEANS something. Your thoughts?!

So, others have mentioned that spren scream when a KR touches them, one because they can hear them, and second, being trapped in the PR is painful. Do you think this was done deliberately by the KR? It seems very vengeful if so...

I suspect that when Radiants who have reached a certain degree of progress in the Nahel bond die, they go to Braize. Several points of evidence have led me to to suspect this: The Nahel bond was not designed by Honor, but was an attempt by the spren to imitate what Honor had given to the Heralds. In WoR chapter 87, Syl clarifies to Kaladin that the Nahel bond was specifically based on the Honorblades. The Prelude to the Stormlight Archive tells us that one of the conditions of the Oathpact is that the Heralds would return to Braize to be tortured if they died, and were expected to return willingly if they did not die during a Desolation. To abandon the Oathpact, they had to leave their Honorblades behind, willingly and intentionally giving them up. They did so by slamming the Blades into the stone ground. This suggests that the Honorblades was the basis of their connection to the Oathpact, and thereby to Braize. The coded passage from the Diagram found in the WoR Chapter 84 epigraph references "the secret that broke the Knights Radiant". Apparently there is such a secret, and obviously it would need to be a very significant one. When Dalinar observes the Recreance in his vision (WoK Chapter 52), he sees the Radiants slam their Blades into the stone ground, as the Heralds did, and as Dalinar does when he relinquishes Oathbringer to Sadeas. This is clearly how the Bond is broken, though why they needed to leave the Plate behind as well is unclear, mostly because we know so little about what Shardplate actually is and whether it has any connection at all to the Heralds (whom so far have never been shown wearing Plate of any kind). Nale believes, following Ishar, that when the proto-Radiants "naturally discover the greater power of the Oaths"..."without Honor to regulate this, there is a small chance that what comes next will allow the Voidbringers to again make the jump between worlds." (Edgedancer, Chapter 9) This suggests that the Radiants are connected in some way we do not yet understand to Braize, and could potentially (though by no means certainly) bring a Desolation the same way the Heralds do. Whether Ishar is correct in this belief or not is not yet known to us. To bring these points together, the Nahel bond is based on the Honorblades, and severed by the same means that the Heralds severed their ties to the Oathpact. Is it possible, then, that by copying the Honorblades, the Nahel spren inadvertently recreated the not-so-desirable aspect of the Honorblades that connects the Heralds to Braize? If so, it is possible that when Radiants die, their soul(?)/Cognitive shadow/non-material aspect goes to Braize, as the Heralds do, instead of going through the usual afterlife? This would be an extremely serious side-effect for the Nahel bond to have, and it's hard to imagine anyone, least of all the Radiants who were all broken people in some way, stoically accepting more-or-less-eternal torment after their death. As others have theorized, we already have reason to believe that the afterlife is messed up in some way on Roshar, but if the Radiants suddenly found out that they were more or less guaranteed to go to Damnation, that would go a long way toward explaining the Recreance.

Spoilers for those who haven't finished either Stormlight Archive books. As we all know Odium has shattered Honor's shard and killed its holder. However, as the series goes on it might be impossible for the main characters to fight against a shard holder, without another shard holder. I think that they might have to gather the shattered remnants of Honor's shard and remake it. I don't know if this is possible, but I think it would be interesting to have one of the main characters take up the shard to fight Odium. As for who would wield it, I think it either has to be Kaladin or Dalinar. Dalinar already has the Stormfather as his spren and is set to be a very powerful player in the days to come, but on the other hand there is Kaladin. He already holds an honor spren and these first five books are more or less built around him and I believe that he will be the champion that Honor hinted at in the visions he sent Dalinar. I prefer the idea of Kaladin becoming the new holder of Honor's shard since I feel that it would show the most growth of a character who went from a slave all the way to a God.

So while reading through Way of Kings again, I devised two theories, and would love some input: Thought number 1: Spren make up shardblades once the surgebinders have said the right words. In Dalinar's visions, the Radiants also have plate, but Szeth has said he can't wear plate or it will effect his powers. I believe, once more words have been said, the Spren will also be able to make up plate, eventually uniting man with Spren. Thought number 2: During an interlude chapter in The Way of Kings, we find out that spren, once measured and written down, cannot change that measurement. What if, someone, during the day of Recreance, the spren that made up the knghts Radiants Plate and Blades were somehow measured, freezing them in their current state. The Knights Radiants could no longer hear or interact with their spren, probably even suffering from touching them, as Kaladin would suffer touching a shardblade, and this is why the abandoned them. Also, now frozen, regular men could use them. If this is true, I am thinking a major plot of the series will be to rescue these spren. To find where they have been recorded, and erase that, freeing all trapped spren in the Plates and Blades, perhaps allowing even more members to join the Knights Radiant.

Why do we get 2 effects from a Nahel bond? Building off the theory that the focus for surgebinding is the Nahel-Bond itself, or more precisely, the puzzle-piece-filling of a Spren into a broken human to form a new reforged/"whole" entity. I posit that it is because the bond works in 2 directions: The spren completing the person's brokenness while the person completes the Spren's sentience. This then implies that each type of bond-forming Spren requires a different aspect of sentience to become whole. So, can we line this up on the Ars Arcanum chart for Divine Attributes and Surges? Let's try! 1st Theory of Combination: Each participant in the bond provides a single row from the Divine Attributes table. - Kaladin provides Protecting/Leading/Adhesion; Syl Provides Just/Confident/Gravitation. - Lift provides Loving/Healing/Abrasion; Wyndle provides Learned/Giving/Progression. - Shallan provides Creative/Honest/Illumination; Pattern provides Wise/Careful/Transformation. Ok this one just looks wrong. Shallan is *not* the honest one in this relationship. But she is the creative one... So on to our... 2nd Theory of Combination: Each Participant provides one of the 2 Divine Attributes from each of the applicable rows in the table. It is then the combination of these 2 attributes that results in the specific surge that is expressed. Furthermore I posit that the two participants in the bond will form an 'X' on the chart between the attributes. Let's see if it holds up: - Kaladin Protecting + Syl Leading = Adhesion; Kaladin Confident + Syl Just = Gravitation. - Lift Loving + Wyndle Healing = Abrasion; Lift Giving + Wyndle Learned = Progression. - Shallan Creative + Pattern Honest = Illumination; Shallan Careful + Pattern Wise = Transformation. - Dalinar Pious + Stormfather Guiding = Tension; Dalinar Leading + Stormfather Protecting = Adhesion OK so far those are looking spot on! Yeah! Now on to more speculative pairings: - Renarin Learned + ____spren Giving = Progression; Renarin Honest + ____spren Creative = Illumination - Jasnah Wise + Ivory Careful = Transformation; Jasnah Builder + Ivory Resolute = Transportation - Skybreaker/Szeth Just + Highspren/Nightblood Confident = Gravitation; Skybreaker/Szeth Obedient + Highspren/Nightblood Brave = Division - Stump (Edgedancer vs. Truthwatcher): I must say I'm stumped by Stump either way. Followup Questions: Can we use this theory to posit the types of spren that will bond the other surgebinders? (E.g. Renarin's spren would in some way bring Giving and Creative to the relationship, so what might that spren be?) Are the Honorspren always Leading & Just and the Windrunner always Protecting and Confident? Could you gain access to the same 2 surges via a different bond with a being who was Leading and Just and a spren who was Protecting and Confident? Could it be that Szeth's pairing with Nightblood is actually a swap/subversion of the traditional Highspren bond? Meaning a normal Skybreaker provides Confident and Brave while the Highspren provides Just and Obedient. Even further - are there 4 types of bonds which could theoretically grant access to the same 2 surges?? (Add Protecting/Just being + Leading Confident spren as well as Leading confident being + Protecting/Just spren.)