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A Rosharan Political Analysis: Secret Societies Ghostbloods, Diagramists, Skybreakers, Sons of Honor, Envisagers, Stone Shamans, Ardentia The following is intended to be a comprehensive guide on known secret societies on Roshar, especially ones interfering in The Stormlight Archive. Due to the complexity and excessive number of such societies, this will hopefully be a useful reference for newcomers, confused fans, and those that want to double check or reference any information. If you note any inaccuracies or things that I missed, feel free to let me know so that I can update the information to be as accurate as possible. The Ghostbloods: The Ghostbloods are the most encountered secret society with the least information given. As Mraize told Shallan at the end of Words of Radiance, we know next to nothing about the Ghostbloods or their purpose. We can, however, make some educated approximations, and codify the information we have been given. · Jasnah Kholin: She and the Ghostbloods seem to be engaged in a policy of mutual assassination; but unfortunately we don’t know the history or reasons behind this. · Sons of Honor: There seems to be a specific rivalry between the Ghostbloods and the Sons of Honor. The Ghostbloods have a keen interest in Amaram at the Shattered Plains, and Iyatil tried to assassinate him at the end of Words of Radiance (most likely, she has at least one nonlethal poison); Amaram also suspected the Ghostbloods of sending Helaran as the Shardbearer to kill him, though later evidence indicates that it was really the Skybreakers. Gavilar’s two suspects for his assassination were Thaidakar (probable leader of the Ghostbloods) and Restares (probable leader of the Sons of Honor). Both are also seeking maps and Urithiru. · Maps and Urithiru: The Ghostbloods have an uncanny interest in maps. (This is not singular to the Ghostbloods; the Sons of Honor, Parshendi, and others seem to have the same interest.) Either they (as well as the others) are putting plenty of effort into the search for Urithiru (as seems likely), or the maps have something else of interest. · Taravangian and Tukar: Mraize, in his conversation with Raspy Voice, seemed to indicate that he thinks Taravangian and the Diagram of little importance. Either he is unaware of the Diagram or its extent, or the Diagram is of less importance than we are led to believe. In the same conversation, he speaks of a “creature in Tukar” that is either not human or not of the local species. As pointed out, this is likely the "god-priest, Tezim," leading the Tukari in the conflict over Sesemalex Dar. · Worldhoppers: Secret conversations, key props, the Diagram, and Words of Brandon confirm that Mraize and Iyatil are worldhoppers. The conversation Shallan overheard in Chapter 54 of Words of Radiance seems to indicate that there may be at least one other. A person with a raspy voice. Conspiracy theory! Dreok Crushthroat! The Ghostbloods could, therefore, be a Cosmere-wide organization in either membership, expanse, or at least information. Significant Members: · Mraize: A man who, on first sight, reminds Shallan of Hoid. He is twisted an scarred, fixates on courage (in his first conversation with Shallan), and likes to use local weapons to learn of different cultures. He is the ward of Iyatil, and a worldhopper. In fact, Adrotagia wondered (in her annotations to the Diagram) if he was the “wanderer Taravangian spoke of. · Iyatil: She is considered the “babsk” of Mraize. The only other babsk we see is Vstim, and from Rysn we learn that the babsk is considered the parent of the apprentice, in charge of “rearing” them to be a full trader. I am not sure how this relationship works with the Ghostbloods. She has an orange carapace mask she refuses to remove, is a skilled actress, and is also a worldhopper. · Tyn: An expert con artist that took Shallan under her wing. She was in league with the Ghostbloods but may not have been an actual member. She was in charge of the operation to assassinate Jasnah Kholin. Shallan killed her with her Shardblade when Tyn discovered her identity and tried to kill her. · Thaidakar: This appears to be a leader or high ranking member of the Ghostbloods (he is spoken of in conjunction with the Ghostbloods in a way that implies he is the head of the organization by Amaram in The Way of Kings, and Words of Radiance reaffirms a Ghostblood position, with the term “Master Thaidakar” used by Mraize. Gavilar suspected Thaidakar for his assassination, telling him that he was “too late;” though Restares (a Son of Honor) and Sadeas were also suspects. We have no other information at the moment. Lin Davar: Father of Shallan and Helaran (along with three other siblings). He assumed the blame for the deaths of Shallan's mother and her friend in order to preserve the secret of Shallan's Radiancy and the fact that Shallan had killed them (albeit in self-defense). He grew politically ambitious, increasing House Davar's importance and preparing to make a bid for Highprince, but making enemies and alienating allies. His steward, Luesh, was his intermediary with the rest of the Ghostblood organization, which had been backing his bid for the Highprince succession and had loaned him the Soulcaster. He was killed by Shallan when he tried to kill Nan Balat during one of his rages. Luesh: Steward to Lin Davar and his intermediary with the Ghostbloods as they backed him politically. He was trained to use a Soulcaster. He (purportedly) died in his sleep after Lin's death, while Shallan was in Kharbranth. Kabsal: A Ghostblood posting as a Kharbranthian Ardent. He befriended and fell in love with Shallan, but his main purpose was to assassinate Jasnah Kholin. He died from poisoned bread during the assassination attempt after Jasnah inadvertently Soulcast the antidote. Shallan: Following Jasnah's "death," Shallan's encounter with Tyn, and her arrival at the Shattered Plains, Shallan infiltrated the Ghostblood organization under the alias Veil. She was ultimately admitted as a full Ghostblood member, but her true identity was ultimately discovered. Despite this, Mraize still offered her the membership. "Let Shallan Davar be a Radiant, conformist and noble. Let Veil come to us. And let her find truth." Interesting quote (from Mraize's conversation with Shallan at the end of Words of Radiance): "Your family [the Davar's] has a long history of involvement in these events." The Sons of Honor: The Sons of Honor are a group of Vorin extremists. Fortunately (or unfortunately), we see a lot of them through the interactions and investigations of Amaram, especially from Words of Radiance. (Ironically, the English singular – Son of Honor – is only one letter away from perfect Rosharan symmetry, a good Vorin name.) Their purpose is to return the Desolations in order to bring back the Heralds and restore the Heirocratic dominance of Old Vorinism. While obviously misguided and misinformed, and seemingly unimportant, they still manage to kick up quite the storm. Restares: We know little more of Restares than we do of Thaidakar. The apparent leader of the Sons of Honor, all we truly know is that he is Amaram’s superior, one of Gavilar’s murder suspects, and that his cronies were “close,” according to Mraize, presumably to finding Urithiru. He is usually mentioned in context with Thaidakar. He is the individual to whom Amaram sent his progress report at the end of Words of Radiance. Amaram: A devout Son of Honor, he has been seeking Heralds (namely the “person who calls himself Taln), gathering maps (presumably seeking Urithiru), and trying to get the Parshendi to transform into Voidbringers. While he has garnered much dislike in the novels and among fans for murdering Kaladin’s men and being generally dishonorable, I feel he is no worse (and absolutely no better) than many of the other misguided, semi-antagonistic members of such secret societies; while he is more misguided than most, he honestly feels he is doing what is best for Roshar, without regard to himself, but has a very destination-before-journey mindset that is common in similar individuals (Taravangian, Mraize, and even Hoid to an extent). The Diagramists: The most appreciated and generally understood secret organization, the society of the Diagram is the prime example of “Destination before Journey,” summarized by the Catechism of the Back of the Flowered Painting: Q: What cost must we bear? A: The cost is irrelevant. Mankind must survive. Our burden is that of the species, and all other considerations are but dust by comparison On the night of his death, Gavilar confided in King Taravangian of Kharbranth, telling him of his visions of the Almighty. Following this, Taravangian sought out the Nightwatcher, asking for the capacity to save humankind. The result? Daily intelligence fluctuations, inversely connected with compassion levels. Then came one “singular day of unparalleled brilliance,” “making connections no man had ever before made”: The Diagram. Information written in an alien script (devised by Taravangian that day to express information more clearly) all over Taravangian’s bedroom, with a key fortunately carved into his table; now codified (in its original form) for more practical use. Although Taravangian’s Interlude maintains that he did not truly see into the future, the Diagram has made “eerily accurate” (though not entirely infallible) predictions of the results of specific actions necessary to unite the world (under Taravangian) to resist the Desolation, as his interpretation of Gavilar’s visions required: “You must become king. Of everything.” Quotes: · Inaccuracies: The Diagram, while startlingly accurate, has been off about a few things, more so the farther into the future it goes. Taravangian hopes for another day of equivalent intelligence to revamp the Diagram, but Adrotagia’s calculations declare this to be unlikely. Therefore, the current method is to use Death Rattles, little precognitive phrases uttered by the dying, created by Moelach (according to the Diagram, one of the Unmade) and powered by the “spark of life itself.” Two problems thus arise: First, that the Diagram is gradually decreasing in accuracy; Second, that the method of updating the Diagram is controlled by an evil, powerful being most likely a Splinter of Odium. These could have interesting future ramifications. · Death Rattles: · Sleepers: These are members of the Diagramist group, likely a term for a specific type of undercover agent. “Wake every Alethi sleeper we have; send every agent in the area.” These may include Graves and his men. · Silent Gatherers: These Diagramists are headed by Joshor and are in charge of murdering the terminally ill in the Kharbranthian hospitals in order to find and record as many Death Rattles as possible to augment the Diagram. Members: · Taravangian: King of Kharbranth and now Jah Keved, Taravangian was the confidante of Gavilar Kholin on his final night. After seeking out the Nightwatcher, he received the boon of intelligence fluctuation and created the Diagram on a day of unparalleled genius (as explained above). Through his occasional brilliance, he is able to interpret the Diagram and is the leader of the society. “Besides, in dealing with the Diagram, he might not remember what he had written or why – but there were echoes sometimes.” · Adrotagia: Head of Taravangian’s scholars and his boyhood friend. Following Taravangian, she probably knows the most about the Diagram. · Mrall: Taravangian’s bodyguard, in charge of determining his capacity to serve in public on a daily basis. A peculiar figure, he claims to be able to “change emotions on a whim,” such as ceasing to take pleasure in suffering. · Graves: A self-styled Alethi patriot and a Shardbearer, he was in charge of the group trying to assassinate King Elhokar. He is now fleeing the Shattered Plains. Through the assassination attempt, he recruited Moash to their cause. · Szeth-son-son-Vallano: Truthless of Shinovar, the Assassin in White. An explanation should be unnecessary. From the middle of The Way of Kings to the end of Words of Radiance, he is under the control of Taravangian and acts on his orders. The Skybreakers: The name originally applied to an order of the Knights Radiant. Whether they remain so, are the organizational remnant of what used to be Radiants, are Radiants ("This act of great villainy went beyond the impudence which had hitherto been ascribed to the orders; as the fighting was particularly intense at the time, many attributed this act to a sense of inherent betrayal; and after they withdrew, about two thousand made assault upon them, destroying much of the membership; but this was only nine of the ten, as one said they would not abandon their arms and flee, but instead entertained great subterfuge at the expense of the other nine."), or merely share the same name and Heraldic leader remains unknown. In any case, they are a group headed by Nalan, Herald of Justice. They do seem to “put the law above all else,” though laws are twisted to suit their needs, and they certainly have a proliferation of Shardblades; however, their actions do not seem Radiant-worthy and they seem to be trying to assassinate – pseudolegally, of course – Surgebinders along the path to Radianthood, all in the name of preventing another Desolation. The best knowledge comes from the Interludes of Ym and Lift, along with Szeth’s portion of chapter 88 of Words of Radiance. I hope for a vast increase of information with the release of the next book (such as the information and references in The Way of Kings versus those in Words of Radiance.) · Nalan’elin: “Nin” to Szeth, almost certainly Darkness to Lift and the man in Ym’s story; Herald of Justice, Divine Attributes of Just and Confident. We don’t know what the years since Aharietiam have truly done to the Heralds, though they seem to be “doing worse.” This one has gained a penchant for assassinating Surgebinders and (Jezerezah only knows what else he’s been up to! I’ll leave it up to your imagination). · Szeth-son-Neturo: Once again, the Assassin in White needs little introduction. Now he has and a mission to bring justice to the leaders of the Shin, and he is learning at the feet of a dangerous Herald who may or may not be just as unstable as Szeth. · Helaran: Shallan’s oldest brother apparently “sought out the Skybreakers,” presumably where he received his Shardblade and Plate. Taravangian and Adrotagia considered him a possible tutor of Shallan in her Surgebinding. Nothing else is known, despite Shallan’s flashbacks (I am beginning to tire of saying that. I expect some good information from the third book!) The Envisagers: A cult, as Teft called them, that “believed in the Radiants, Heralds, and Old Vorinism; especially Old Vorinism.” They believed that if they could return the Voidbringers, it would bring back the Knights Radiant (comparable to the Sons of Honor in the preceding respects). They believed that if they put their members in mortal danger, they would manifest Surgebinding powers – a Snapping concept, of sorts. None did, but many (including Teft’s mother) died trying. Teft turned the Envisagers in to his citylord, who executed them all. If other groups exist, he (and we) is unaware. NOTE: This concludes the section on all known secret societies – at least, those known to be secret societies. The two following are potential candidates once more information is known; as things stand, any accusations of ulterior goals remain theorization. I hope the information is helpful, regardless. The Ardentia: The Vorin ardentia are the religious officials that remain after the Sunmaker destroyed the Heirocracy and Old Vorinism. While they lack the overwhelming political power they had previously, they are extraordinarily well placed to be a massive secret society in the Vorin nations of the East: ardents include cutting-edge scientists, scholars with access to practically all of the Eastern world’s knowledge (especially the Palanaeum), politicians (though they technically aren’t supposed to be), religious authorities and advisors, fighters, Shard-trained soldiers, and Soulcasters – in fact, they control all known Soulcasting fabrials. They seem too suspicious and well-positioned, especially with the fact that they once controlled the major Vorin nations. Stone Shamans and the Shin: I hesitated to include these, but the information, while mildly speculative and not truly a secret society, could still be of use. Stone Shamans seem to be the leaders of the Shin – certainly of their religion, which worships the spren of stone. They have the Honorblades and have kept them safe “for millennia” – likely since the Last Desolation. Szeth mentions eight of the nine, specifically (though he wasn’t terribly surprised with the fabricated news that one was stolen), and we have WOB that a Herald came back for his. Unfortunately, insofar as I know, we lack a time indicator – whether it was immediately following the Desolation, before Szeth’s expulsion, or afterwards is unknown, and the latter would mean that there is another unaccounted Honorblade. Presumably, the Stone Shamans use them, for they would have been able to retrieve the Honorblade following Szeth’s death in normal circumstances (whether they will try or succeed to regain the Honorblade from the new Knights Radiant remains to be seen) – though how this reconciles with the societal abhorrence of weapons and soldiery is unknown. Regardless, we know Szeth plans to “face enemies with Shards and with power.” Besides the ownership of the Honorblades (and potentially other Shards), however, is the potential knowledge, both generally held and that discovered by Szeth, leading to his naming as Truthless. Unfortunately, all that we know is very vague and will likely remain so until Szeth visits Shinovar or we see his flashbacks. Regardless, we can extrapolate from the few glimpses Szeth does give us, namely in Interlude 9 of The Way of Kings and phrases screamed while fighting Kaladin. Something made Szeth believe that the Radiants and Voidbringers had returned. He told others, probably the Stone Shamans, but was convinced or forced - despite what he claims his honor demanded - to become Truthless. (I am of the opinion that he was forced religiously, and he complied in the name of law and order, which Nalan claimed Szeth worshipped - “They told me I was Truthless,” emphasis added, and “There was no place for him in the Valley of Truth,” a name that seems to imply religious significance. There is also an interesting dichotomy following his acceptance of his station; while “his honor demanded” that the Voidbringers existed despite the fact that “his punishment declared that they did not,” the appearance of Kaladin as a budding Radiant made Szeth question his nature as Truthless until Taravangian’s explanation forced him to remain in his place.) Along with a possible knowledge of Radiants and Voidbringers, Szeth recognizes a Herald on sight (albeit by a different name than they are called in Vorin nations), and he knows more about Surgebinding than the Ars Arcanum from The Way of Kings and arguably that of Words of Radiance, despite Shinovar’s lack of access to Stormlight. They also had a knowledge of Urithiru. It will be very interesting to learn more of the Shin in future novels. Honorable mention: These are groups that deserve notice but lack requisite information for full consideration. Worldsingers: An order that travels across Roshar, "spreading knowledge of cultures, peoples, thoughts, and dreams; bringing peace through understanding." They claim that their charge to do so came directly from the Heralds. Related to the Worldbringers of Terris and probably founded by Hoid, Hoid is a member and was the mentor to Sigzil, graduating him during The Way of Kings. Veristitalians: A group of scholars that seeks to find the truth of what has happened in the past, such as finding natural explanations for supernatural phenomena and discovering unbiased history. Jasnah is a prominent member. Stormwardens: A group of make scholars finding loopholes in Vorin restrictions. They mathematically predict highstorms, use glyphs as a written phonetic script, etc. Several stormwardens have been involved with secret societies, but nothing indicates that the organization as a whole is. Vanrial: Am order of artists at Silent Mount in Jah Keved, responsible for preserving the full text of The Way of Kings throughout the Hierocracy. Each year they sing songs believed to be in the Dawnchant, of which Dalinar's visions seem to be giving a translation. Oldbloods: The descendants of the dynasty that once, long ago, ruled Alethkar. They mark themselves with blue tattoos on the cheek. Teleb, a Kholin highofficer and ultimately a Shardbearer, is an Oldblood. "In Yulay, there are groups of people who talk of the Radiants. And wish for their return." This quote from Sigzil may refer to the Envisagers or a separate group. I hope that this compilation is helpful. If you note any inaccuracies or know of anything I overlooked, any and all help is appreciated – I mean this to be a full, complete resource for anyone that could use it. Thank you! Edit 1: Updated the Ghostblood information, switching Iyatil for Mraize (as the assassin fit Amaram), added nonlethal poison as an option, fixed ambiguity of worldhopper status for Mraize and Iyatil, fixed "creature in Tukar," and added Lin Davar, Luesh, Kabsal, and Shallan/Veil. Edit 2: Added Worldsingers, Veristitalians, Stormwardens, Vanrial, Oldbloods, and Yulay groups.

Hello! Just joined the site today as i just finished WoR!! Glad to see there is such an active and passionate fanbase for Sanderson's books! Here's my question/thoughts: So why do I see so many people saying Skybreakers don't have spren? Maybe I am completely missing something obvious so forgive me if that is the case. For starters, Syl makes a comment to Kaladin concerning the difference between Windrunners and Skybreakers, quote: "Sylphrena, an honorspren, mentioned to Kaladin that "Laws don't matter. Whats right matters." Highspren, and through them, the Skybreakers, judge and dispense justice according to the letter of the law and what may make logical sense to them" (17th shard wiki)" I remember Syl talking about the difference between how Highspren and Honorspren distinguish what should/should not be done. To me this all implies Skybreakers have Highspren. Also, when Szeth meets Nale, Nale asks him to join the Skybreakers. Then Nale throws him a shard blade and the blade seemingly talks to him. Again, I feel this indicates it is a spren. Would love to get clarification on all of this! Cheers!

I apologize if these question have already been answered, just link me to them if they have . So I have been reading some other threads and people keep talking about the Skybreakers and how Szeth is one of them and will get their surges eventually after bonding with Nightblood and saying the oaths and whatnot. I have a few points of confusion regarding this that I would love to have cleared up; first of all, Nightblood may count as a shardblade but it is not one from a spren related to honor, so how would Szeth be able to bond it and gain skybreaker surges? Does being on a different planet change the fundamental mechanics of Nightblood? Does it make him into a Skybreaker spren? Would a spren that creates the Skybreaker bond even choose Szeth whiel he is wielding Nightblood? Second, are the Skydreakers featured in WoR even the actual Skybreakers? None of them displayed the ability to use surges, I'm pretty sure Nale was using a regular dead-spren shardblade and not his Honorblade. I was under the impression that it was simply a group named after the Skybreakers who went around killing protoradiants to try and stop the desolations from returning. Lots of questions, but everyone seems to take these for granted and I'm sitting here like "whhaaaaa???"

If this has been pointed out elsewhere, ignore me. But if not, then I found a cool thing. Yay! Also, potential spoilers below. Caveat lector. ~ So it appears that the Lightweavers, with their "strange and varied mnemonic abilities," (WoR p. 566, Kindle edition) weren't the only ones with extra perks granted via Nahel bond that don't involve spren or Surges (assuming that the enhanced memory is indeed caused by that). Reference chapter 55's epigraph (WoR p. 636, Kindle edition): Never tells us what they're freakishly good at, does it? But I noticed that the page referenced sounded familiar. In the previous chapter, that same page of Words of Radiance is referenced. It says: This seems to imply that the Skybreakers have an unusual ability to distinguish between those who are guilty and those who are innocent. Fitting, as the Skybreakers put the law above all else.

I did a quick search to see if this has come up, and couldn't find anything directly... My questions and thoughts have turned toward the restrictions on Syl and Kaladin's bond - it won't function, to the point of killing Syl, if Kaladin refuses to protect someone/decides to outright murder a fool. I'm wondering if a similar restriction exists upon Skybreakers. Does their bond degrade when they decide to NOT kill? If they find someone guilty, do they have to kill, or is there a choice within their bond to stay execution? I know that the question of "Were those REAL Skybreakers in WoR?" will come up at some point, but I'm thinking of what we know of the Skybreaker Radiants, while considering all the data available. (So no getting too bogged down) What do you think?

So I have this theory that Navani will become a Sky breaker for two reasons one is after reading this quote from Words of Radiance - "The considerable abilities of the skybreakers for making such amounted to an almost divine skill, for which no specific Surge or spen grants capacity, but however the order came to such an aptitude, the fact of it was real and acknowledged even by their rivals." (WOR pg 636.) Combined with what Szeth experiences after being brought back to life by a fabrial at the end of the book "impossible." " not if it is done before the brain dies... you could be restored with the right fabrial." Nalan then invites Szeth to join the Skybreakers the order he used to lead/inspire whatever. I think that the Skybreakers were really good at making fabrial and so is Navani. Also Skybreakers considered justice to be most important, and when Dalinar is betrayed on the shattered plains and Navani hears about it she doesn't write a Glyph for hope or mercy or victory or strength, she writes Justice. Maybe that a bit of foreshadowing maybe not. If you think that this doesn't work because Navani is not broken enough, just remember that she has raised Jashina as a daughter and a failure king as a son, on top of the fact that she straight up tells Dalinar the there was a darker side to Galavier. All in all maybe I just grabbing at wind spren here but maybe not

During the Nuremberg Trials, Nazi officials attempted to justify the actions they had performed during the Third Reich's reign by arguing that they were "just following orders"--claiming, essentially, that the law of their country absolved them of any moral responsibility for their actions. The Allied court did not recognize these objections, and declared that there is such thing as a "higher law" that all earthly governments must conform to. For more information about the concept of higher law, Wikipedia has an article on the subject. The subjective nature of law is a matter that could be discussed at length for days on end. Which is more important--following the laws of nations or the laws of ethics? Fortunately for those of us with limited time, this is not the question I seek to investigate in this thread. Rather, I'd like to explore what is perceived as a major point of distinction between two Orders of the Knights Radiant, the Windrunners and the Skybreakers. Syl, a spren associated with the Windrunners, differentiates herself from highspren by stating her belief that "laws don't matter. What's right is what matters." It seems that the majority of 17th Sharders have taken her viewpoint on the matter, citing the actions of the Skybreaker Herald Nale as an argument against Skybreaker ideology. I would argue that Nale is not a fitting representative of what the Skybreakers truly believe in. In Words of Radiance, Nale is observed tracking and killing Surgebinders whom he's found guilty of crimes. He deems this necessary, and tells off one of his minions when the man claims to be above the law. As any who have read Lift's interlude can attest to, Nale believes killing Surgebinders to be necessary for saving the world from horrible Desolations. But even believing that what he does is for the greater good, he still refuses to break the law by killing Lift after she is pardoned. Many readers, myself included, find Nale to be a difficult figure to relate to. He believes what he does is morally right, and yet he will cease his activities once the law opposes him? At best this is a highly extremist form of legalism. At worst, this is insanity. With this said, I believe that Nale, despite being the Order's patron Herald, is a poor representative of the Skybreakers and their specific belief system. If this is the case, then we must examine the only other representative currently available to us--Szeth-son-son-Vallano, Truthless of Shinovar. Nale's example leads us to believe that to the Skybreakers, the precise letter of the law is the most important consideration in any ethical conflict. Nale makes no secret of his belief that one should always obey the laws of a nation if one is within its borders. But when we observe Szeth, we find an entirely different principle at work--Szeth follows only the law that he recognizes. It is obvious that many of Szeth's activities, in particular his actions as the Assassin in White, are not legal within the borders of the countries he acts in. Alethi and Jah Keved law certainly prohibit the murder of kings and highprinces, but Szeth nonetheless executes his orders with extreme prejudice. Szeth is quite probably Roshar's Most Wanted, yet he is wholly devoted to the laws of his people, the Shin. Clearly the Skybreaker oath, "I will hold the law above all else", does not refer to all laws. Instead, it appears that the Second Ideal of the Skybreakers may refer to a specific set of laws--those laws that the individual Skybreaker chooses to uphold. So if this is the case, allow me to return to my original point. The Allied officials at Nuremberg believed in a higher set of laws than the laws of nations. They professed the belief in an ethical law that superceded all other statutes. Could a man who harbors these beliefs become a Skybreaker? Could a man, while swearing to hold the law above all else, break laws that he finds unjust, professing to follow a higher set of laws? Could a Skybreaker topple governments he finds reprehensible, freeing prisoners he believes were convicted wrongly? The core question, the question that must shape our judgement of the Skybreakers: do the Skybreakers swear to uphold all laws, or only those that are Just? I find this to be an interesting, perhaps even important, consideration. If Skybreakers are permitted to follow any set of laws they choose, then one could see the apparent contradiction of anarchist Skybreakers--Skybreakers who refuse to follow laws set down by men, considering ethical laws to reign supreme in all matters. At that point, who could tell the difference between a Windrunner and a Skybreaker? I suspect that the Third and Fourth Ideals will be key towards identifying the Skybreaker's philosophical stance, one way or another. If the Third Ideal is "I will follow even laws I find unjust, so long as they are lawful", for instance, then the idea of anarchist Skybreakers is entirely thrown out the window. But until we are given more definitive information, I would love to see some discussion on how Skybreakers and their spren interpret the law.

Theory in brief: Nalan sends Szeth to kill the Stone Shamen because they are the original Skybreakers whom Nalan believes have failed the purpose of their Order. We know from the epigraph to Chapter 41 that one KR Order “entertained great subterfuge” “not [to] abandon their arms” but to continue as functioning KR. I believe these were the Skybreakers who moved to Shinovar and became the Stone Shamen. Evidence: Only Skybreakers and Windrunners utilize the Gravitation surge, and only those with the Gravitation surge could have taught Szeth how to use Jezrien’s Honorblade to fly. If Kaladin hadn’t seen Szeth, and Syl hadn’t helped him, he might never have learned to fly himself.Nalan apparently still has his Honorblade. When he went back to retrieve it, the Skybreakers were with him and collected the other Heralds’ Blades. They took them back to Shinovar with them.Of all the lands on Roshar, Shinovar is the most politically and ideologically orderly. Everyone knows their place. Very Skybreaker-like.The Skybreakers believed the Desolations were over, since they had lived a long time without encountering another one. This was unlike the other Desolations, which occurred at shorter time intervals I do think KR are immortal, or close enough to, for whatever reason – whether from the healing effects of Stormlight (sorry, Kurkistan) or their bonding with a splinter of Honor, or something else. (Of course, how do they get their Stormlight, if they live in Shinovar?) Having such personal knowledge of the normal sequence of Desolations, and perhaps relying on the effectiveness of whatever the Bondsmith Melishi had accomplished against the Voidbringers (Epigraph, Chaper 58), over time the Skybreakers came to believe that the Voidbringers would never return. That is why they made Szeth Truthless (after Taravangian’s intercession and instigation, as another thread concluded based on the epigraph to Chapter 78). Nalan now wants revenge on the Skybreakers for, I believe, limiting their activities only to the Shinovar political/spiritual system, rather than actively maintaining order throughout Roshar. Nalan was the last of the Heralds to accept his role as an Order’s patron (Epigraph, Chapter 43): "And thus were the disturbances in the Revv toparchy quieted, when, upon their ceasing to prosecute their civil dissensions, Nalan’Elin betook himself to finally accept the Skybreakers who had named him their master, when initially he had spurned their advances and, in his own interests, refused to countenance that which he deemed a pursuit of vanity and annoyance; this was the last of the Heralds to admit to such patronage." This passage suggests Nalan accepted his role only after the Skybreakers agreed to “ceas[e] to prosecute their civil dissensions,” thus quieting the toparchy’s “disturbances.” Nalan viewed such involvement in civil affairs as “a pursuit of vanity and annoyance.” But when the Skybreakers retreated to Shinovar, and focused solely on establishing an orderly system there, Nalan believed they returned to such a “pursuit of vanity.” He tells Szeth he was “banished by petty men with no vision.” Nalan wants Szeth and Nightblood to kill the Skybreakers/Stone Shamen – “justice for the leaders of the Shin.” Those whom Nalan has gathered to him – the “new” Skybreakers – are not surgebinders, merely people who believe in order as strongly as he does. Because Nalan’s mind has been twisted, he believes surgebinders are the cause of the Deolations and cannot be trusted. He and his new Skybreakers seek to kill them as well. That’s the theory anyway…

Sorry if this had been discussed already, but I didn't find threads on a cursory look through the forums. What do you suppose she was asking the Highspren about? Obviously it mentions that she learned a few things about previous desolations: Yes, it's heavily implied that she is merely pumping them for information about the desolations, but at the same time, she was gone for quite some time. I know there have been WoB implying that was due to the inaccuracies of elsecalling and her inexperience with it, but this seems too simplistic for me. It's also heavily implied that she had to leave in a hurry, and that she was in some sort of battle . So here are my theories. My first is based more on instinct, that the Highspren warned her about Nalan, and that's what monopolized some of her time. But that was just a hunch based on another theory I have about the skybreakers that I only wish to be true. Then I started looking at that excerpt; A utilitarian braid. She wants her hair manageable and out of the way. Usually any time before this Jasnah looks perfect, a part of her presentation to the world. Right now she wants function over fashion. Hemmed at the knees. Again, this a convenience factor. She can move more quickly and the dress won't trip her up. Jasnah is not normally one to rush. She sewed herself a glove out of something improvised. Right here. This is major to me. Jasnah would break from this tradition only if absolutely necessary. She already had enough a reputation with the heresy, so she wouldn't want to distance herself anymore by having people see her as indecent. She thinks it's even more important to have use of her safehand than it is to follow social conventions. I know Navani breaks it, but Navani has more social freedom than Jasnah does. She had a bandolier and a backpack that she didn't before. Kind of simple deduction here, she wanted those for simple utility. Burns on her face. She presumably just came back from the cognitive realm. Injured. Ok, so we see a much different Jasnah than we had before she left. Jasnah left a scholar, and yet she emerges as a warrior. In fact, without a second thought she levels a shardblade at Hoid. Fledgling battle instincts? Then there is this snippet: So now I was thinking she's referencing her escape from the assassins, but that makes no sense. That was months ago, and she has entirely different wounds than she would have from that encounter. She was involved in some sort of battle while she was off of Roshar. The only spren we know she definitely is interacting with are the highspren, who's order of Radiant is currently taking out other bonded pairs. We know the Stormfather has forbidden honorspren from bonding, maybe other spren had similar edicts. This could be interpreted as a law, which the highspren are focused on upholding. Here is the picture I'm trying to paint. Jasnah makes contact with the highspren, no knowing anything about the current state of the skybreakers, which are presumably hunting bonded to prevent deslolations, and due to broken laws. Maybe the Highspren are endorsing the deaths because the spren disobeyed and came to the physical realm. So after making initial contact, the Highspren give her the information she was asking as a way to distract her, while they summoned the skybreakers, trying to continue their quest to kill bonded. A large fight enues, and Jasnah once again has to elsecall in order to survive, and so she lands WAY outside of where she would like to be, battle hardened, and laden with fresh information, both about the desolations, and about the new threat to surgebinders.

Firstly, this theory has many holes, so feel free to pick on them, or fill them in. We know that Szeth is a Surgebinder with Gravitation powers, but (as far as I know) we never see his supposed Windrunner Adhesion powers in use. Perhaps this is because he was a Skybreaker from the start. This would be a good reason for Nalan to 'retrieve' him. But you say, "Szeth has Jezrien's Honourblade!" Perhaps not. Maybe he had Nalan's Honourblade from the start (This is the hole). We know Syl thinks that It is an Honourblade, but I think that Kaladin getting Jezrien's Honourblade would be redundant. MUCH cooler for him to have a third power. There's also a lot of confusion with Taln and Dalinar, so there's a lot we don't know about them. Brandon says that you can't bond with them, and yet Szeth can summon/dismiss his (This is another hole), which may imply that he doesn't even have Nalan's. AND he doesn't have a spren, which means that he doesn't have Skybreakers' powers naturally. Am I missing anything? Now that Szeth UNBONDED his blade (according to Nalan) when he died, does that mean he lost whatever powers he had? Let's hope we get more information in book 3!

My theory is that to become a Skybreaker, you must first die and then be revived (like what happened to Szeth). This could also mean that Helaran would be alive and might have even gotten himself killed on purpose in the hopes he would become one. It could also explain this in some small part : Please leave me your thoughts!

I finally decided to make an account after reading this site for a few months and being thoroughly impressed by the intelligence and politeness on these forums. Here are three questions I asked Brandon today in Seattle as he signed my books (I am shocked he didn't RAFO me): Question 1: Shardblades vs Hoed (Major WoR + Elantris Spoilers): Question 2: Function of the Skybreakers (Minor WoR Spoiler): Question 3: Adolin and the Knights Radiant (Major WoR Spoiler): My thoughts and Interpretations (Major WoR Spoiler): Thanks for Reading! Jerich P.S. It was nice to meet several of the 17th Sharders like Trickonometry and a charming Superfan who gave me her name which I promptly forgot... I will add it here if she posts to this thread:))