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So, Shallan has a deadeyes spren, which I kind of thought nothing of until the livestream Thursday where Brandon said something to the effect of "Old knights radiant that broke their oaths did not make a deadeyes". This plus the "WE CHOSE" moment has implications for deadeyes. I think that in order to become a deadeyes, more than just breaking the oaths has to happen, the spren has to choose to die with the oath (Likely for some motive with the Knight Radiant involved). What the heck does that mean for Shallan? I think Testament probably chose to become a deadeyes to help Shallan conceal the Truth from even herself. I was also confused about Heleran, and his shardblade but I've realized I'm just an idiot for believing anything Mraize had to say rather than realizing Heleran was probably working for the Ghostbloods.

OK, one question. Why did Testament not appear next to Shallan when she was transported from Kholinar to Shadesmar?

Ok Veil is dead . She is According to me. You might argue that she never existed , that she was just a hallucination Shallan made up but really is she ? I had come to see Veil as a distinct individual from Shallan and she was. Now that she commited suicide and is "Integrated " with shallan , does it mean we will see shallan act like Veil ? Be all badass and rough and not care about propriety, hit on Kaladin. Wasn't Veil different from shallan ? She couldn't draw , couldn't use Radiance properly. It was more like she was a squire to Shallan rather than a part of her . If she really did Identify as Shallan she should have been able to just as good as Shallan in her radiant abilities. Regardless she was a different person. I came to see her as a different person and was electrified at a positive depiction of multiple personality disorder . ( something also seen in the Legion novellas ). I was looking forward to see Veil have a relationship with someone other than Adolin and the interesting relationship dynamics it opened up. But fine I guess that's tangential. But seriously just removing her like that . Integrating her as if she never existed. Man this is the part I hate the most about RoW. What the helll ??? I mean veil was someone . She might not have been a fully independent personality but to just brush her off like this without any form of closure or reactions from the others she knew. Idk seems wrong to me. I liked Veil and i think she's as dead as Tien . Sure she will keep on influencing Shallan just like Tien will influence kaladin but I find the suggestion that she wasn't real and shouldn't need a funeral or be missed by Adolin or the others to be extremely odious. Even if she wasn't real , the others she knew and we , the readers, saw her as someone different and as such I find the underwhelming reaction to her death/disappearance by both cohorts to be really disturbing.

Hi, I'm Dasak, I'm a non-native english speaker (I'm from Spain) new user, so I'm not sure if I can theorize this here or there is another place to do it (but I think this is the correct place). Firstly, I've been reading cosmere books from 2011 when I started reading 'The way of Kings', and it seduced me as a single book almost as 'The name of wind' did it before. So I was impressed when I discovered that he created not only a saga of novels, but also a group of sagas and short novels taking place in the same fantasy universe (in this case, the galaxy known as Cosmere). Now, there comes the spoiler of the 4th book, so those ones who haven't read it already, don't read the spoiler: I have a few more theories and meditations, but I will keep them in my mind until admins or other users answer me, telling if I can or cannot write them here. I think I did lots of grammatical mistakes, so I apologise for it. Best regards, Dídac

Hey! I collected all of Hoid's stories in a document! This is for your theorizing pleasure, and for potential memorization! Hoid's Stories I was interested in reading all of them, so I collected them, and couldn't think of a better place to share them than here!. I included the Wandersail (Way of Kings Chapter 57), Fleet (Words of Radiance Chapter 59), The Girl Who Looked Up (Combined both Shallan's Version and Hoid's, Oathbringer Chapters 25 and 82), Mishim and Tsa (Oathbringer Chapter 67), The Dragon and the Dog (Rhythm of War Chapter 80), The Origin of the God Kings (Warbreaker Chapter 32) Hoid’s Stories.pdf Hoid’s Stories.txt

This is a idea I came up with before Rhythm of War came out. Originally I collected a bunch of information to connect the Ghostbloods to Hemalurgy but then the Thaidakar reveal made all that irrelevant. Theory: The Davar family were practicing Hemalurgist. Shallan's Mother was spiked before her death and Shallan possibly has spikes that she is not aware of due to her repressed memories. This theory provides an explanation to several of the loose threads we have with the Ghostbloods. The Ghostbloods are led by a man named Thaidakar who goes by the title Lord of Scars, there is strong evidence to suggest that this man is actually Kelsier the Survivor. Their goal as explained to Shallan is to traffic Investiture and they are currently trying to get easy access on and off Roshar. Two major things we don't know about the Ghostbloods is why were they involved with the Davar family and why are they trying to kill Jasnah Kohlin. Why were the Ghostbloods involved with the Davar Family? The GB need an easy way on and off of Roshar so they can traffic Stormlight. They are well aware of Hemalurgy due to their connections to Scardrial. I believe that they were attempting to use Duralamin spikes to create a psuedo-Nahal bond. This would explain why they have spent so much effort trying to kill Jasnah, as an Elsecaller she has access to the surge of Transportation which would be very valuable to their cause. I theorize that A Duralmin spike made from a Lightweaver was given to Shallan Davar and this is where the Radiant persona and bond with Testament originated. Evidence from Rhythm of War - Chapter 93 In this excerpt Brandon uses the metaphor of being stabbed through the heart with a spike TWICE to describe the pain Shallan feels at remembering her childhood. Additionally Shallan remembers her mother lying on the ground with "a length of metal in her chest" not a Shardblade in her chest. Shardblades don't cut through human flesh and they vanish when not being held. I'm not saying that Shallan didn't kill her mother with the Testament blade but what I am saying is that the metal that she is describing doesn't fit what we know of Shardblades but it does fit what we know about hemalurgic spikes. This also explains why Shallan believed her Mother's Soul is locked in the safe. If hemalurgy was done on her it would make sense that she would have had some understanding of what was being done to her and when she killed her mother she would have been under the impression that the Testament blade had absorbed her mother's soul. Thoughts?

So I just noticed this. In part one Mraize and Shallan are talking and we get this conversation: “Iyatil has reported to Master Thaidakar,” Mraize said, “and he has accepted—after some initial anger—that we will not be able to control the Oathgates. I explained that there at least is a calming wind in this, like the riddens of a storm. With Dalinar controlling the Oathgates, he can prosecute the war against Odium.” “And that helps your cause?” “We have no interest in seeing the enemy rule this world, Shallan. Master Thaidakar wishes only to secure a method for gathering and transporting Stormlight.” Mraize held his broam up again. Like a miniature sun beside the real one. Then in Part Five we have this: “Perhaps. Can you handle my master? Can you handle her master?” “Thaidakar?” Shallan guessed. “Ah, so you’ve heard of him?” Yes, Mraize. You only mentioned him several times. More seriously... That comment makes no sense. Of COURSE Shallan has heard about Thaidakar; Mraize name dropped him TWICE when sending her on this mission. And why is Shallan ‘guessing’? She knows Iyatil reports to Thaidakar. Beta readers, do you know if this was noticed and kept in intentionally? Because it’s a pretty big inconsistency. If it isn’t an accident, which it probably isn’t, then I have a couple of guesses. Shallan guessing: she suspects Mraize is referring to Thaidakar, but wants to be certain. So it’s an educated guess. Or the word guess was in error, but that’s a fairly minor one. Mraize’s statement: he’s drawing attention away from what he just said. He wasn’t referring to Thaidakar as Iyatil’s master, but another high ranking GB on Roshar. It was a slip, and Shallan just gave him the perfect way to cover it up. Notice how quick he is to let her know Thaidakar isn’t actually on Roshar. Thoughts?

RHYTHM OF WAR SPOILERS! TL;DR: Adolin and Shallan release Ba-Ado-Mishram and revive all the Deadeyes. Some Tinfoil And Some Facts After completing WoR, I had a big question I never asked 'cause I thought Stormfather was exaggerating what had happened... but I'll come back to this point in a min. What are Deadeyes? Spren whose bonded radiant broke their oaths. But isn't the cost too high? Humans who can't keep their oath lose their Surgebinding at the cost of a dead spren? After reading RoW, we know what happens to a spren whose Radiant broke their oaths after the Recreance. Testament died after Recreance when Shallan broke her oaths... err, truths? Now back to my first point. Stormfather told Kaladin that he killed Syl. Back then I assumed he was lying and Syl will just return to Shadesmar after their bond breaks completely, which never happened. Now that I think about it, Stormfather wasn't lying. Syl would have died if her bond with Kal broke completely. Read This Before Conclusion Syl said this about Honorblades: If a Spren reqiure checks, will it just die if the the requirements are not met. I don't think so. Maya agrees with me: Spren thought they will suffer from pain, not death. And Kalak says: I certainly think this is related to formation of Deadeyes after a Radiant break oaths after the Recreance The Conclusion Before Ba-Ado-Misharm was imprisoned, a spren would not die if their Radiant broke their oaths. They would just be sent back to Shadesmar. And ever since the Recreance, any broken bond results to death of the spren. But why Ba-Ado-Mishram is so important? How can an Unmade scar Roshar in such ways? I think Ba-Ado, and all the unmade for the fact, were once of Honor and Cultivation with important roles in Rosharan Spiritual ecology. Later currupted by Oduium. But that's another theory for another day. Adolin and Shallan's arc is now going towards reviving the Deadeyes. Maya and Adoin have been theorized for long. Now we have Shallan and Testament too. I think Adolin and Shallan's next quest will be to find Ba-Ado and free her. In freeing her, they will revive the Deadeyes. Another Tinfoil Titbit Ba-Ado-Mishram was once tasked to check Surgebinding in ways that it remains safe and whatever happened to Ashyn is not repeated. She kept doing it even after Odium Unmade her 'cause Odium don't want to destroy Roshar either. After her imprisonment, Radiants and their spren realized that Nahel bonds are no longer safe and decided to break them.

Perhaps this is how writer-Shallan might express her overarching feeling regarding what she did to Testament: Regret I cut out my tongue with blade of silver, and bind it with wrappings of boiled linen and ripe rowan berry. I tie it high in the rafters with rope of braided ivy, amongst the drying hyssop and rue. It hangs restlessly, thrashing in the flickering shadows thrown from the hearth as I recount mortal wounds left in its wake. After far, far too long a time it grows quiescent, as embers die slowly into ash. And still, sleep refuses my embrace.

I'm gonna say this is less a theory than my brain snagging on something. I've always thought Shallan had a bunch of weird stuff about her character that implies she's more than she seems, other than the stuff we already know. One of the things that has always stuck out to me is the way her disassociated identity disorder seems to be magical. Her personalities have too much life, and especially this book Veil acts in a way that really just doesn't seem like a mental illness alone. I was considering what the nature of her situation is when my mind remembered someone else in the Cosmere who does the same thing, Autonomy. Autonomy splits off entire personas that act independently as gods on whatever planet she invests. Autonomy is the Sand Lord, and Patji in a way that seems really similar to the way Shallan is Veil and Radiant. I was thinking that maybe Shallan is someone that Autonomy invested just a little to keep an eye on things on Roshar. It wouldn't even be that hard to do, because Autonomy can invest anywhere the light from the Taldain sun shines, even if it's only as a star.

During the pre-release, Shallan's perfect sense of direction immediately jumped out at me: The reason for this is because geolocation was the hypothesis for the Elsecaller resonance based off of the end of WoR, where it looks like Jasnah knows exactly where to go despite being dropped in the middle of the wilderness (and because it seems like the natural thing to associate with someone who can travel magically): So my immediate, WAG was that somehow Shallan had also been bound as an Elsecaller, which would potentially be hard to distinguish since they share similar abilities to Lightweavers, or possibly affected by her interactions with the Unmade. I actually misread the original interaction with the deadeye Adolin runs into (I thought it was an inkspren, since I was looking for one, and not a cryptic), which I thought explained it... But of course, that's not actually what appears to have happened. So the question still remains - why does Shallan have geolocation? The resonance of Memory appears to be the established one for Lightweavers. It's possible that the geolocation Resonance is just an extension of that ('memorize direction') or that this ability is actually distinct from the one Jasnah appears to have (knowing where you've been - odometry - is not the same as knowing where you are relative to a global frame), but the two abilities seem pretty close, colloquially (it's also possible Jasnah just knew the direction to go, similar to what Shallan seems to experience, rather than explicitly knowing where she was). There doesn't seem to be any evidence that any other Lightweaver exhibits this, either, though the evidence is scant (to the point of non-existence?) in either direction. If any other Lightweavers did exhibit this, it seems like it would be something that would have come up during Shallan's internal description, though. One important consideration is that Shallan does seem to have at least one power the other Lightweavers don't have yet. Despite being a poor-to-mediocre Soulcaster (at least, doing it Jasnah's way...), Shallan can cross over to Shadesmar: It specifically mention Shallan, despite there being three other Lightweavers going with her, which seems to imply this is something only Shallan can do out of the Lightweavers. And Jasnah can as well, of course, so it might be that the geolocation Resonance is somehow tied to being able to transport to Shadesmar (as an aside, Shallan having this ability actually seems really weird, since transportation to Shadesmar sounds more like Translocation than Soulcasting, but there isn't anything that seems to indicate that e.g. Jasnah finds this unusual). This could make sense if the person could somehow use their sense of position in Shadesmar to help determine their position/orientation in the Physical as well.

What makes Brandon's funny characters and humor work for me even when they aren't that funny:

Just finished my reread of Oathbringer in prep for RoW, and I think it's the best book in the series. I'll admit there's a possibility of recency bias but I thought a lot about it and I feel confident in, well, how I feel about this book. What do you think?

Spoilers through Oathbringer!

Does anyone else find it very frustrating that both Shallan and Kaladin’s issues seem to be never ending? While on one hand it’s a more realistic depiction of real life issues in that they are rarely resolved in one fell swoop, as a storytelling device I am beginning to find their struggles way too repetitive. It’s maybe not so pronounced with Kaladin. His story and internal monologue is very repetitive regarding each of his hold ups but they at least seem to be dealt with in a realisation that ends up with him swearing a new ideal before another takes its place. At first he was just downtrodden and hopeless, then he had a complex regarding who deserved his protection. Both of these things directly correlated to his oaths. This is why everyone assumes his fourth ideal will be related to his current obsession with not being able to save absolutely everyone. As an overall arc I think this is fine. However, reading his thoughts at the start of RoW is so tedious for me right now. He goes round and round in circles and the exact same concerns can be brought up three or four separate instances in the same chapter. Shallan’s troubles are less excusable to me. I think her DID storyline started off as a logical interpretation and a smart way to display her talents as a lightweaver and their associated risks. I thought it was beginning to drag towards the end of Oathbringer and I’m dismayed to see that there’s no real end in sight. Which would be fine in my opinion if she weren’t on the cusp of regressing even further. I am assuming that her mysterious fourth persona will end up being the Ghotbloods’ other operative and I think there’s potential for that to be interesting. The fact that this is tied to yet another terrible secret from her childhood, however, is infuriating to me. We know that she killed both of her parents and was justified in doing so in both cases. I struggle to see how she could have done anything that would affect her more as a young child. Not only that but the fact that there’s a bigger, unresolved trauma in her past cheapens Words of Radiance for me. Why didn’t Shallan’s flashback book address the biggest issue from her past?That makes zero sense to me. I’m sorry to be so negative about a story that I love, I am just really tired of reading the same chapter from an internal perspective over and over again. Again, I realise that it’s a somewhat realistic depiction of mental health issues and I’m sure the overall resolution for both characters will be all the more satisfying for the tedium endured. As a reader though, I’m bored of it and I really think that Shallan all of a sudden having another, darker secret is not good writing. Is anyone else feeling similarly? Or does someone have a different perspective that can help me see these developments (or lack thereof) in a more positive light?

My review of Way of Kings. Going to review the first 3 books before RoW comes out in anticipation of the release. Spoiler free until 4:49 then Spoilers.

...I just can't get this idea out of my head. Something feels off about the dynamic between Shallan, Pattern, and Mraize as of chapter 13... Maybe it's just that Pattern wasn't fully cognizant at the time, but then Shallan had progressed far enough into her bond to summon him as a Blade... Anyway, preliminary self-justifications aside, something is fishy about Pattern and Shallan's past. Obviously Shallan is very much NOT okay with whatever happened back then, and refuses to remember. I don't think Pattern would try to push her like that, perhaps believing that she would break the bond just to get him to stop. But yet Mraize is here, promising to "reveal" her past... to herself. And she seems to want that. She doesn't want to have to be the one to admit what she did, but once someone says it, she'll be okay with it? That's... odd. But I could see her having some logic to it, to justify it. So why doesn't that apply to Pattern? Why wouldn't she be okay with him spilling the beans about it? Or... does she not think he can? Did her regressions weaken the bond enough that Pattern also forgot? Or does she believe that because he hasn't told her yet, so she's not going to ask? I don't know anymore, I just talked myself in circles for like 5 minutes. Something just doesn't add up about all this to me.

Hello Guys, While reading Oathbringer (amazing experience by the way), the exchange between Kaladin and Jasnah (Chapter 39, Page 467) struck me as a relationship that just might work. I thought of this because I believe it would be so cliche if BS takes Shallan from Adolin (that combo already works IMHO) Kaladin with Jasnah works perfectly especially with when Kaladin falls into his auto depression mode, Jasnah can easily logic him back to focus and Kal can give Jasnah the tilt to human emotions(Lol!). And please don't talk about the age difference. The book already is as liberal as it gets with Drehy being gay..

In Chapter 2, we see Shallan have a tussle with her other selves. The thing is, her other selves don't think of Shallan as, well, Shallan. Or Shallan Prime, or anything like that. The Shallan from the first couple of books--the artist, the quiet girl of House Davar, Jasnah's ward, Adolin's betrothed--is treated by them as just another personality, as insubstantial as Veil or Radiant. Just another face to wear. So that gets me thinking: is it possible that the Shallan we know is just another face to wear? As evidenced by Chapter 2, there are deeper truths that Shallan still hasn't admitted to herself. There's something dangerous lurking there, deep beneath the surface. Is it possible that there really is another Shallan--a Shallan Prime, as it were, the original Shallan--a fourth personality who developed artistic Shallan as a defense mechanism? How do we know that we don't have a Typhoid Mary on our hands here?

Lightweavers & the Surge of Transformation Summary: Lightweavers use an alternative form of the Transformation surge. While they may be capable of using the traditional version that Soulcaster fabrials and Elsecallers perform, they have an additional form of the surge. Further, while it is hard to spot in the moment, we can recognize this Transformation when: 1. We see a character act differently from how they were introduced to us; and 2. That character unconsciously refers back to an interaction with a Lightweaver; and 3. That interaction served as the catalyst for the change in their behavior. TLDR – Lightweavers can use Transformation to “inspire” people to change in the way the Lightweaver thinks is best. Origin of the theory: https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/86250-can-shallan-make-people-more-receptive-to-healing/ Surges shared between orders: Surgebinders share their surges with another Order. However, we have mixed evidence as to whether each Order uses the surge in the same way. On one hand, we know that Windrunners and Skybreakers share the surge of Gravitation. We also know that they use the surge functionally identically. On the other hand, we know that Windrunners and Bondsmiths share the surge of Adhesion. While Dalinar is able to use Adhesion to stick things together like the Windrunners do, he also uses Spiritual adhesion to speak new languages. He also uses some form of Adhesion to heal inanimate objects. There is no indication that Windrunners are able to do these things. We know that Elsecallers and Lightweavers share the surge of Transformation. We know that Jasnah is exceptionally skilled at using this surge. While we do not know of any other Elsecallers to compare her to, she far outstrips what the practiced Soulcasters are able to do, even though these people have trained for years or decades. For example, there is no indication that the Alethi have ever considered using Soulcasters to fight yet Jasnah is nearly unstoppable in battle. It may be that Elsecallers have an affinity for Soulcasting, which Lightweavers don’t have. (Perhaps this is their Resonance?) We have been led to believe that Shallan has struggled with this surge, comically at times. (See: Stick.) However, all we know is that Shallan struggles with soulcasting. Distinction between the different expressions of Transformation: I believe that Shallan (or Lightweavers in general) may continue to struggle with the traditional use of Transformation, i.e. Soulcasting. Instead, I believe that Lightweavers excel at inspirational Transformation which is what we see happen when Shallan is drawing people and which we [maybe?] also see when Hoid is telling stories 1-on-1 with someone, or any other time that we see Lightweavers inspire others to act in a way that (before that moment) was out of character for them. Three potential weaknesses in this theory: First, in my opinion the use of inspirational Transformation is a different ability from the passive, inherent ability to make people feel better, which Brandon has ascribed to both Shallan and to Tien. However, initially I thought those abilities were the same thing. My biggest reason for coming up with that distinction is that I could not explain how a proto-radiant like Tien would be able to actually use a surge. If Brandon confirms (or someone is able to prove) that they are the same ability, then I don’t think we can call this ability a Surge. I don’t think that proto-radiants (different from squires) can use surges. Second, it is not clear whether stormlight is always used in these situations where I think Shallan is using inspirational Transformation. I think any use of the Surges must require stormlight. In these situations where it is unclear, I think Brandon is simply not mentioning the stormlight or ascribing the loss of stormlight to her use of Illumination as a way of misdirecting the audience. For example, I think this is what actually happens when Shallan confronts Vathah’s deserters in Chapter 20 of WoR. She is using lightweaving but she is also using inspirational transformation, which strongly pushes them towards the more noble decision. Quasi-third weakness – The ability to change someone’s character or personality would be exceptionally powerful over the long-term. If Shallan, or any Lightweaver, were to realize what they were doing, the ability would have to be extremely limited. There would have to be rules in place, narratively speaking, or things could get out of hand. This would also be an extremely subtle power. I think this is a power that Shallan uses unconsciously, but it could also be that I am seeing something when there is nothing. Hoid may be the exception that proves the rule. We already know that he works extremely subtly and, conceivably, could use this benignly and with enough conscious skill to avoid problems. However, I could just be convincing myself that something is there. With that said, I feel confident that Spiritual Transformation is real and that Lightweavers can use this much more easily and effectively than soul-casting. Relevant WoBs: Oathbringer Chicago signing (Nov. 21, 2017) #1 Share Copy Play/Pause Zmann966 So, in Oathbringer, we see the Surge of Adhesion used in an interesting way, Spiritual Adhesion. Do all the Surges have non-Physical manifestations like that? Brandon Sanderson All the Surges do, slightly, in fact, but none of them, I would say, are as Spiritual as that. Zmann966 What about like, Shallan in Words of Radiance with her mercenaries? So, like, a Spiritual Transformation? Brandon Sanderson I wouldn't say Transformation, she is seeing a little bit, glimpsing a little bit, does that make sense? Wetlander The bit with the bandits out there, and the deserters, and she [Shallan] convinces them to all go... Was she doing Lightweaving? Was she doing Transformation? Was she doing some combination? Brandon Sanderson She was... You have seen what she was doing before, done by another character. Questioner My first question is about Shallan and whether what she does with her drawings and the deserters in Words of Radiance, kind of changing them, is at all similar to what Shai does in The Emperor's Soul? Brandon Sanderson Umm, that's a good question. There are similarities, but only so much that The Emperor's Soul is cosmere and is relying on the same foundation of magic. But good question. Are you getting at me saying you've seen somebody do it before? Questioner I talked to Alice. Brandon Sanderson So you have seen what she does before, but that is not what I was pointing at. It's someth-- No one is going to expect it. Footnote: This is a follow-up to this exchange. Firefight Seattle Public Library signing (Jan. 7, 2015) Relevant passage from the text: · Chapter 20 of WoR: “They listened,” Pattern said, buzzing from beside her. “You changed them.” … “You are lies and truth,” Pattern said softly. “They transform.” “What does that mean?” “You spoke of one Surge, earlier,” Pattern said. “Lightweaving, the power of light. But you have something else. The power of transformation.” “Soulcasting?” Shallan said. “I didn’t soulcast anyone.” “Mmmm. And yet, you transformed them. And yet. Mmmm.” So that is my theory on how Shallan can be so persuasive and inspirational. Please let me know your thoughts!