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NOTE: This post contains some spoilers for the story "The Emperor's Soul" and the Mistborn books including Secret History I recently started rereading some of the other Cosmere books after RoW (Elantris, Mistborn, portions of Arcanum Unbounded). After reading "The Emperor's Soul" I have come to a conclusion that I sure hope is true. After the big reveal in Rhythm of War regarding Thaidakar's identity, I am convinced that Shai is going to turn up as a Ghostblood. There are a few reasons for this: 1) Shai is the perfect crew member for Kelsier - Kelsier has a penchant for gathering specialists in every arena, and no one is a greater specialist in Forging than Shai. Even beyond using the actual magical skill of Forging, she is stunningly skilled in overall forgery and subterfuge of many types that would deeply interest Kel. 2) Like Kel, Shai has issues with Hoid - We know from "The Emperor's Soul" that Shai ended up being captured in the first place because Hoid sold her out (as the Imperial Fool, aka Wit 1.0) in order to steal the Moon Scepter, a sort of key to access all of the investiture related powers on Sel. She is on a mission to hunt him down. We know Kel & Hoid also have potential unfinished business after their volatile confrontation at The Well of Ascension. The enemy of my enemy is my friend--Kel & Shai are natural allies. 3) Sel might be the easiest planet for Kel to worldhop to--or at least meet Shai from - I say "easy" with caution due to the dangerous nature of worldhopping to Sel (due to the investiture storm caused by the splinters of Devotion & Dominion in the cognitive realm), but we know from Secret History that the IRE were able to set up a base (theoretically connected to the Dor somehow--long extension cord? ) on the edge of Scadrial's portion of Shadesmar. This begs the question if Scadrial is "close" to Sel's Shadesmar. We still don't know how someone would worldhop to Sel, but it seems reasonable that either A) Kel might have figured out how to do so, B ) He at least got to Sel's Shadesmar zone (perhaps to some sort of safe haven there?), or C) Shai managed to worldhop somehow and they met elsewhere. Addendum: We know the Ghostbloods have connections on Sel. It is also significant that Mraize has a Seon which further connects them to that world. 4) They share a unique connection in their scars - It really stood out to me this time that Shai shares a unique trait with Kel--the arm scars left on her by the Bloodsealer's cuts. She was cut every single day over the course of around 90-something days. Kel's title as Lord of Scars may be a point of interesting connection with Shai. 5) She would make quite the formidable foil to Shallan - The similarities between forgery and both lightweaving & soulcasting are striking. Shai is a considerable con-artist even without Forgery, but if she & or Kel were to figure out how to overcome the connection problem with Sel (something we already know Kel is interested in and may have figured out related to the discovery of those Nicrosil excisor medallions), she might be able to access Forgery to a limited degree off-world. Shai and Shallan are both artists, both talented at disguise, and both have the ability to affect the souls of objects in different ways. With Shallan having potentially allied with Wit rather than Thaidakar, a conflict could be very interesting. 6) We know that Brandon has confirmed Shai will show up again--potentially as a worldhopper - The Cosmere has grown much more complex since some of the big reveals in Rhythm of War. Of all the various factions at work among the Cosmere-aware, the Ghostbloods seems the most likely one to match Shai's skills and personality as opposed to the 17th Shard, IRE, etc. We know she's showing up again--while anything can happen, this theory seems like a strong possibility. What are your thoughts? Any other connections (or things I totally missed)?

I just read Emperor's Soul for the second time and it was just as good on the reread even though the first happened a few months ago. It might be my favorite of his short stories (except for Shadows of Silence or Sixth of the Dusk or...). I have a couple of questions about how Forging relates to Hemalurgy. I'm guessing based on the Kriss essay on Hemalurgy that Forging ability could be stolen from a person. Could I steal some one's stamp? For instance, I could put Shai in a situation where she uses her warrior stamp then take it? Also, could Forging allow someone to switch/gain magical abilities? Like, could I reforge someone into being an Elantrian? P.s. I'm relatively new to the discussion boards so please forgive me if I missed some earlier conversations.

Pretty much exactly what the title says; I just wanted a single topic/thread to discuss and theorize/hypothesize what stuff like the Pure Tones and Rhythms might mean for Investiture on other worlds. The main one that spurred me to make this thread is: Can you use the Song (Pure Tone + Rhythm) of Preservation to draw in and burn the Mists of Preservation, even if you don't have the same Connection to Preservation that Vin had in the Final Empire? We see that the Pure Tones alone can guide the Lights of the corresponding shard into different containers, so would adding the Rhythm and making the Song of Preservation attract the Mists strongly enough to be consumed by an Allomancer? ...Could you do the same with the Song and Mists of Ruin to fuel Atium Allomancy without needing physical Atium??? See, these thoughts are why I make topics like this, I need to know if I'm completely off-base or not, bring in some other thoughts and see if I'm onto something by thinking in weird directions.

Background Preservation & Ruin created the planet Scadrial together from scratch after the Shattering. Trell is a shard/or shard-like entity that is unknown to Harmony Trellium is the metal of a known shard: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/69-shadows-of-self-release-party/#e6261 Possible shard candidates (at time of WoB): Devotion, Dominion, Preservation, Ruin, Odium, Honor, Cultivation, Endowment, or Autonomy But not necessarily a shard: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/377-idaho-falls-signing/#e12232 Devotion and Dominion have spren-like cognitive splinters – seons and skai respectively Seons are ‘devoted’ servants to their masters Skai are described as ‘evil seons’ (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/247-ancient-17s-qa/#e5540) Avatars of Shards can be imbued with an intent and can operate after a shard’s vessel has died The Mist continued to snap people on Scadrial after Ati died Theory Preservation & Ruin pooled their Investiture and used a Dawnshard to create the planet Scadrial Ruin agreed to this use of Investiture on condition that he could destroy the planet eventually The Dawnshard that allowed for the planet’s creation is still on Scadrial and is currently being protected by Harmony A primary of Intent of Dominion shard is ‘to dominate’ The skai are evil counterparts to seons who are described as being helpful and obedient. The opposite of this could be 'dominating'. Trell is an avatar of Dominion Etymologically the word Trell is related to a Norse word meaning ‘slave or thrall’. This aspect fits as an aspect of Dominion that has an Intent to dominate Trellium is Dominion’s metal Trellium as a hemolurgic spike allowed for control over Paalm and the hemalurgic chimeras created by her. This fits with an Intent of domination. Harmony is unaware of what Trellium is and that it comes from Dominion because the Vessel of Dominion is dead. His knowledge of Shards and wider Realmatic Theory comes from self-study and from whatever the other Shard Vessels and people like Hoid tell him Trell's ultimate purpose is to get the Dawnshard on Scardrial Open Questions As an avatar of Dominion, Trell was able to move a large amount of Dominon’s Investiture off planet. Could this be connected to Kelsier (and by extension the Ghostbloods) goal to learn how to move large amounts of Investiture off planet? Could Odium’s decision to destroy Dominion (and Devotion) be influenced by what Dominion’s plans were? What (if any) is the connection to the man named Trell on Taldain?

Hey guys! I wanted to talk about some of the connections that I've been thinking about as we get ready for Rhythm of War! So I reread The Emperor's Soul and a few things stuck out to me. The most powerful soulstamp you can create is made from crystal, even more than soulstone, and animal inks work better than plant-based inks. Roshar has both in abundance. Crystal takes longer to carve and can be quite difficult but if you carved a gemstone or gemheart (which I think would work better, for some reason), and then entice a spren and trap it you could perhaps power soulstamps with stormlight. The Roshar continent is in the form of a Julia set which probably would help take forgery off Sel. We know that Odium is using some similar mechanics to Hemulurgy on Roshar but he also visited Sel and if he begins to use similar types of magic to bloodsealing and Dakhor magics, he could make incredible soldiers and creations. I've also thought about using Hemulurgic charged metals for fabrails. The problem is if they aren't coated in blood they begin to lose charge but perhaps some of the other mechanics blending could create a fix. Perhaps you can use the Dakhor bones instead of metals because it appears it act as a focus for the power of the gemstone and the Dor is focused through the twisted shape of the bones. So what are some Voidbinding and Hemulurgic Fabrials and Soulstamps?

Hello hello fellow wordlhoppers, after some thought I want to return to my favourite cosmere idea: Compounding with something else but Allomancy. The most likely candidate: AonDor. (Mistborn spoilers) Part 1: What is Compounding? and how could it work with anything else but Allomancy. Allomancy uses Metals as Keys to tell Preservation's Investiture flowing through them from the Spiritual Realm what form/effect to take. Iron tells it to pull, Steel to push etc. Feruchemy uses Metals as Keys to tell the (scadrian) body's own Investiture what form/effect to save as. A Compounder genetically has both the abilities to tap and save the same metal. If they activate a key (burn a metal) that is already a different key (already tells Investiture a specific form to take) the Investiture that the allomancer uses for allomancy (Preservation's) instead takes the form that the feruchemic key tells them. Part 2.1: AonDor with Compounding broken down like that, you might get where I'm going. What other kind of magic uses Keys: Selish magic. Specifically, AonDor. In AonDor, the Aon acts as a Key to tell the Dor (Dominion and Devotion's combined Investiture) what form/effect to take. Aon Ehe tells it to be Fire, Aon Shao tells it to transform something, etc. These Aons can be modified to be Keys for extremely specific purposes. Part 2.2: AonDor Compounding: Aon Deo Aon Deo is the Aon for Metal. My theory: I believe Aon Deo could be specified enough that, if an AonDor user made a metalmind in the shape of that specific Aon or inscribed Aon Deo into a Metalmind, you could channel the Dor through the Metalmind, using the Dor to power your feruchemical release similarly to how Allomantic Compounding uses Perservation's Investiture. What are the Implications of this: 1. If a person had both the ability to use a Metalmind and use AonDor, they could get massive amounts of certain feruchemical attributes without saving them beforehand by using Aon Deo to power them with Dor. Part 2.3: Nicrosil Source: https://coppermind.net/wiki/Nicrosil What are the implications of this: 2. An AonDor Nicrosil Compounder could store a tiny bit of Investiture in his AonDeo Nicrosilmind, then activate it with AonDor and get basically infinite Investiture. 3. THEY WOULDN'T EVEN HAVE TO BE A FERUCHEMIST. Originally, I thought that if a Terrisperson managed to move to Arelon they might have a tiny chance to birth a Ferring who gets chosed by the Sheod. But read this again: Therefore, a Soulbearer could store their ability to use Feruchemy and another person tapping it would be turned into a temporary Feruchemist who has the ability to fill a metalmind (assuming the nicrosilmind was unsealed) If an Elantrian got their hands on an unkeyed Nicrosilmind, that temporary window would be enough to use AonDor to power it. Once the AonDeo Nicrosilmind is Compounding, it wouldn't be used up like in Allomantic Compounding. The Elantrian would have infinite Investiture. For Rosharans, this might seem arbitrary, but not for Elantrians. The Dor has local borders, it is difficult to use AonDor outside of Arelon, not even speaking of Sel. Using this Technique, Elantrians might be able to use AonDor outside of Sel. Part 3: possible difficulties with Connection Leaving Arelon might weaken the Connection to the land too much to use AonDor even with a source of Investiture. Possible Solution: Source; https://coppermind.net/wiki/Duralumin Elantrians could canonically tap Duralumin to use AonDor outside of Arelon, maybe even Sel. They don't even need to be a Ferring to do this. Anyone can canonically use a Nicrosilmind to temporarily become a Duralumin Ferring (see Bands of Mourning), I theorize that an Elantrian could use AonDor to Compound, turning the temporary abilities provided by a Nicrosil- and Duraluminmind into permanent abilities. This way, they could use AonDor without the Dor while also using the infinite Investiture provided by this trick to power their Duraluminmind to keep up their connection to Sel. > Be Elantrian > Aquire Nicrosilmind and Duraluminmind. > Tap Nicrosilmind while in Arelon. Become temporary Ferring. > Tap Duruminmind while in Arelon by activating your AonDor. Create infinite Investiture loop. > Permanently have infinite Investiture to power both your AonDor and the necessary Connection supplement to power it outside of Sel. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this theory and why you think it could or couldn't work!

So Ruin&Preservation was just some weird opposites attract thing where one can't just be alone without the other interfering so that makes sense. Honor&Cultivation settled together because they're romantically involved so that one is quite obvious. However how did Aona and Skai end up together settling on the same planet when the shards they held don't seem to gel well by concept ? Do you guys think it is personal like they personally know each other enough that they trust each other to settle together ? Are they previously romantically involved as well ( tho Sanderson did say they were just business partners of sort but I think I read some wob there was something more) ? Or after picking up the shards did with their warped personality both made a conscious agreed decision together as they foresaw they would work out well for their personal shard intents ? It feels like their settling on the same planet together like how two friends/strangers who have different personalities just decide to become roommates or something. Their case is a curious as if I think about it Dominion and Devotion sounds almost as disastrous as R&P. Any relevant wobs ? Speculations ? Thoughts

Trellium is described as a silvery metal with a red cast to it, and dark red spots similar to rust. There exists another substance which is described to have a similar appearance: Soulstone, which is noted to be a whitish fine grained rock with flecks of red mixed in. Could these two be the same substance? I know the texture of the two don't really match, one is described as being metallic and the other as being a soft chalk like rock that hardens after being baked in a fire. But the red dotted markings... It could be an indication of Corrupted Investiture, perhaps?

So when someone in the Cosmere dies, their mind manifests on the Cognitive Realm for a while before being drawn into the Beyond. On the Spiritual Realm, their Spiritweb remains for a while before dissolving. But going back to the Cognitive Realm, specifically to the Cognitive Realm of Sel, there's a giant Investiture plasma storm raging, called the Dor, formed from the Shards Devotion and Dominion. So what happens when you die on Sel? An unpleasant second death? Or can the Dor only hurt those who enter the Selish subastral Physically? Or could the person's soul be changed by the Dor? We do have legends of lost souls, Svrakiss, on Sel. The Svrakiss could be Cognitive Shadows, lingering after contact with such a high amount of Investiture.

as has been established, due to devotion and dominion's investiture being in the cognitive realm, magic from there is location based, and gets weaker the farther from the location it is. my question asks wether it's possible to trick the magic, or siphon it somewhere else through some sort of amplifier or otherwise to increase it range of effectiveness, possibly allowing for crossing worlds, or at least continents. Also, sorry if this question has been asked already, not gonna lie, I'm a bit lazy like that.

For example Hoid goes by the name of someone he learned from/looked up to or the like. They could've been an elantrian and him going by hoid is a reference to how they would've become a hoed after the fall. Coulda got mispronounced and it got changed to hoid. Or maybe the other worlds just spell it wrong. I seriously doubt there is correlation between these but any thoughts?

In Elantris it is mentioned that all the religions focus on unity. Shu-Dereth achieves Unity by Obedience(Dominion). Shu-Korath is Unity by Love (Devotion). Shu-Keseg is Unity (Dominion and Devotion) Did anyone else follow this train of thought?

The spren of Roshar are all some mix between Honor and Cultivation or Odium. The Odium spren look different from the normal spren showing that different shards have different spren. In Elantris it is never discovered how seons are created. This is likely because they are devotion spren and bond with the people on Sel similar to how high spren bond to people on Roshar. It is also mentioned that Seons are almost physical representations of "Gods love" (Devotion)

All systems based on the Dor cannot predate the formation of the Dor. But Sel had two Shards in residence before that, presumably for quite some time. During that time Sel's CR must have been accessible. Where are the worldhoppers who left Sel during that time?

Ok guys.. I have an out-there idea that I think Odium has been investing on all Planets that he goes to kill shards and he creates Cognitive Shadows by investing in them, imbibing them with hatred and uses them as his minions to help him in his fight against other shards.. So far, we know that Odium has visited Sel(where he killed Aona and Skai), Threnody system(which is the site of shardic altercation between odium and ambition) and right now, he is trapped on Roshar where he has already killed Tanavast and his shard has been shattered. On Roshar, Odium has created Fused that are cognitive shadows that do not pass on to the beyond when they die, instead they return and take up a new body and on and on it goes.. Some of these fused have lost their minds and most of them are so invested with Odium’s intent that they understand nothing but hatred towards human. Fused only wish to win this war and finally, be able to rest by passing onto beyond. Given that there are wobs that say that Odium has invested on all the planets he visited briefly to kill these shards like he has on the Rosharan System: I find it a great coincidence that Odium visited Threnody system and fought with Ambition here and we have Shades on Threnody which are actually people who die and can not pass onto the beyond. Their actions are also very odium-y. So, I think that it is a possibility that these shades are actually a result of an earlier version of the experiment that Odium did on Threnody which was later was greatly improved upon in Roshar. Further, on Sel also we have legends of Svarkiss which says that these are half ghost and half demons. Shu-dereth faith says that these are souls of men barred from entrance into heaven and are condemned to wander Sel, bitterly cursing their fate(very odium-y) and prey on humans. It is also believed that they have the ability to take over the body of living and control their actions, again very similar to how Fused work on Roshar. Although, I think that Odium withdrew his investiture from these Svarkiss and they no longer exist and are mere myth today in the Jaddeth Empire.. Just as he has promised The Fused that they will be allowed to pass on once they win. Millennia later, on Roshar, Fused also would be nothing more than such a myth.

Okay here's the premise. All 4 of the big Shardworlds participate in a planetary battle Royale for Cosmere supremacy. The catch is that God Level users are excluded. So TLR is out for Scadrial, Roshar cannot have the Heralds, Susebron and the Returned cannot fight for Nalthis. Sel keeps Elantrians because they have no other comparative God users (Dead Shards). Any magic system native to their world can be used on the planet in conflict along with the fuel in the amounts that they'd normally get. Each has a home city on the planet in conflict, 500,000 people a piece, but with their magic users being proportional to their numbers on the home planet, at least initially. More magic users created from the total population is permitted. No reinforcements from home. 90 days to organize their forces. So who wins?

Brandon seems to really enjoy giving things names that start with the letter "s". Planets, People, Books, and Things. So I thought it'd be fun to make a thread that lists All The Things that start with S. Some of the ones I remember are Sel, Scadrial, seons, skaize, spren, Stormlight, Shalash, Stormfather, Silence Divine, Shadows for Silence, Shadows Beneath, Shadows of Self, Secret History, Stormlight Archive, Suri, Susebron, Shard, Splinter(ing), Sliver, Shattering, (Cognitive) Shadows, Shades, Shadesmar. Oh, and of course, SANDERSON. What are some of the ones everyone can remember? (Note, this isn't a criticism. Brandon puts a lot of work into linguistics and names. It's just a funny thing that I noticed.)

Does Elantris have an economy? What do they have to sell? That is pretty clear - mostly AonDor. But what do they buy? It could be argued that AonDor creates a kind of subsistence economy. It can feed you and Elantris itself provides housing and public infrastructure. So what could you want that AonDor cannot give you? exotic stuff - travel is costly for Elantrians travel knowledge services - AonDor can make your dinner, fix your clothes and heat your home, but not easily put your room in order sex fame fashion Anything else?

Given how destructive the Desolations on Roshar are, why is Sel still habitable? Once Devotion and Dominion were splintered, there wouldn't have been any force opposing Odium. I used to think that Odium simply didn't have any interest in harming anybody below major Splinter/Herald/etc power level. But it seems from Oathbringer that I was wrong about the Desolations on Roshar in my old Recreance theory: But then, I was focusing only on Odium's goals: at that point, I was expecting the Voidbringer/Everstorm-influenced listeners to be pure puppets with no motivations of their own (like Ruin-controlled koloss/inquisitors in Mistborn). If the Desolations' threat to humanity in general comes from the listeners' own desire to get their planet back, Odium might still not care. But even so... Threnody is super messed up, and it doesn't seem like either Odium or Ambition Invested there. So why isn't Sel more damaged? It seems pretty Earthlike.

Ok so why aren't Spren more common in the Cosmere ? I understand they are like bits of shards namely honor and cultivation. But why only roshar ? Sure seons and skaze are basically Spren but they aren't nearly as diverse as Spren , not to mention Spren have entire ecosystems in the cognitive realm. Hmmm could if be that Spren could exist on Sel as well , but the dor is dangerous to them too , like sel's cognitive realm is the magical equivalent of a nuclear wasteland from what I've read and so could it be that only the seons and skaze which reside completely in the physical realm survived ?? Also are Spren present on Ashyn ? Khriss says they are present on braize too but idk. I'm pretty sure braise is only inhabited by parshendi ghosts . And it's stated that Highstorms were phenomenon that existed before the Shattering , albeit in a less magical way . So could Spren have existed pre shattering as well ? Maybe they would all be non sentient and very less diverse and rarer but could they exist without Shardic investiture . If that's the case , then again why only Roshar or the greater Rosharan system as the case maybe ??? Also there's the ambiguity about ambition. Like we know she was splintered but don't know if her investiture was contained into the cognitive realm like the dor , but I guess it probably wasn't. So could Spren also exist somewhere in the threnodite system or the hypothetical planet where ambition went to die ?

So, just recently I realized that most cosmere systems of magic have to do with shardic intent. I know that people have probably already thought of this, but it came to me while I was reading Warbreaker. On Endowment's shardworld, magic allows people to endow items with gifts, namely, the gift of life and breath. Awakeners give items life, of course, but even common people can give their breath to the Returned. And the Returned give their breath to heal. On Scadrial, Ruin's system of magic requires the destruction of metal for power. Preservation's preserves power to be saved for later. Hemalurgy sort of preserves power by transferring it, but requires the ruin of a living being. So it's kind of a combination of the two. On Sel, stuff is different, due to both shards being shattered. I won't bother. I'm still trying to work out White Sand. I haven't read them yet. On Roshar, a Knight Radiant's power is directly linked to being honorable by following the ideals of their order. Cultivation cultivates people with her magic. She nurtures with a gift, but prunes with a curse, in an attempt to foster healthy growth. Odium is... Odium. It seems like the Fused are fuled by passion, which is Odium's thing. We really don't have much concrete information on them though, except that they're basically uncool and Unhinged versions of the Knights Radiant. That's... All I've read of the cosmere so far. Feel free to add, or correct.

Could some shard that went to Sel just stuff the wild investiture back into the spiritual realm ?

okay, so we all remember Mraize's souvenirs from shardworlds: the vial of sand, the santhid skull, the preserved flower etc. however, the one that stood out the most (to me at least) was the branch with carvings on it

I have been thinking about how if Steris was able to obtain some Selish magic she would absolutely smash. I just can't stop imagining her spending days pouring over books learning how to use every Aon. Does anyone else think this?