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As the title says, who do you think will be join Wax on the cover of The Lost Metal?

Now we know from secret history that like humans first originated in Yolen . And from arcanum and oathbringer that except for Scadrial and Roshar that humanity on all other planets predates the arrival of shards. So how did humanity spread across the Cosmere , were they technologically advanced and had mastered space travel but the shattering sent them back to pre history levels somehow or did adonalsium help them travel , using shard pools or oathgates or like with better control over the spiritual realm. We suspect that's how humans made it from Ashyn to Roshar. If so , were these humans at least at a mediaval level of tech and then somehow regressed desolation-style . I mean khriss says humanity was at it's prehistory when Devotion and Dominion came to Sel. Also why only humans . We know that dragons and some fain things also liver on Yolen and were equal to humans. Yet they didn't spread I think. Any thoughts or WoBs or theories ?

So why did khriss immediately want to leave as soon as she heard hoid had stolen a bead of Lerasium . She told kelsier she was leaving anyway but she was literally just sitting drinking tea and chatting but as soon as she heard those words from kelsier she wanted to run away. Why exactly was she so afraid ? I mean Ruin was free , preservation was dying and yet she was unfazed but this little tidbit sent her fleeing. Also from what I have seen in stormlight hoid isn't really a bad guy. Sure it's a matter of perspective and hoid himself warns others about himself but still... Also it's mentioned on the copper mind that hoid respects khriss

In Secret History (part 6, chapter 3), Kelsier attempts to speak into a soldier in Elend's army who's 'not broken, but merely ... open', and tries to let him spread the word that anyone pierced by metal cannot be trusted. However, this man named Midge tells the other soldiers that "I'm holy, and you just ain't" and start a brawl. During this brawl, one of the soldiers punches Demoux in the face. In The Hero of Ages (chapter 47) we see Demoux trying to stop a brawl, but one of the soldiers (Bilg, see his Coppermind page here) punches Demoux in the face. Conclusion 1: This, along with a couple of other hints about the setting, makes me think that we're talking about the same brawl here. Most of you will probably agree so far. To proceed ... after the brawl, Ham mentions that this was yet another fight between mistfallen and regular soldiers, which means that Midge might be one of the mistfallen. This statement is further supported by the fact that Kelsier is able to talk into him, implicating that Midge has cracks in his spiritweb and thus also indicating that Midge might be an Allomancer. Conclusion 2: While there is no proof, this gives us at least reason to think that Midge is one of the mistfallen. Let me know what you think about this. No matter how, I wanted to share this thought anyway as not everyone seems to be aware of this connection (conclusion 1).

I recently re-read Dresden Files, including all Short Stories, Graphic Novels and Novels in chronological order (if somebody needs a list, let me know) and it got me thinking... Could I do the same with Mistborn? Granted, it's not all discrete stories that can "neatly fit btwn novels X and Y," but it seemed possible. So this last week I set out to do just that. Has anybody else tried to do similar? I started with Eleventh Metal (Obviously), then moved on to Mistborn: The Final Empire (TFE) until Kelsier dies. I then attempted to "integrate" the chapters of Mistborn Secret History (MSH) where they take place while reading the rest of the first trilogy. Below is my attempt at codifying at which point in the trilogy I read each chapter/section of MSH. Though, in many spots the MSH chapters would need to be parsed out into scenes to be truly integrated. Thoughts, Ideas, Concerns? PS: Now starting Allow of Law for the remainder of my most-recent Mistborn read through

In Secret History, and alluded to in Era 2, we find that Kelsier held preservation between the death of Leras and the ascension of Vin. He was able to do so because of IRE magical equipment, but he was not able to fully hold it like a living person could have, and so he was much more limited than Vin, just barely able to delay Ruin no matter what he did, while Vin was able, at the cost of her own life, to kill Ati and leave both Preservation and Ruin unheld. Was Kelsier so limited because he no longer a regular living being, but a cognitive shadow, or because he was not grounded in the Physical realm before taking up the shard? Like, if Kelsier had taken up preservation AFTER getting grounded in the physical realm again, could he have fully held it? The Heralds are also incarnate cognitive shadows who were once living humans, but until Oathbringer, every time they died, they reincarnated. When incarnate, could the heralds have taken up a shard fully, or would they have been limited like Kelsier was?

I don't know if people have already talked about this, but I'm gonna talk anyway. I was re-reading Secret History, when I read something strange. I was at the part when Kelsier is spying on the Ire, and he describes one of the leaders as the following: "Wizened, dried up, the woman had puckered lips, a bald scalp, and strange silvery-dark skin. She glowed faintly..." I don't know about you, but that sounds like an Elantrian. I don't know if Secret History is before or after the restoration of Elantris, but still. Later, Kelsier has a vision, "As she said the word, this time Kelsier got a sense of it's meaning in the language of the green plants. It meant "Age," and he had a sudden impression of a strange symbol made from four dots and some lines that curved, like ripples in a river." That sounds like an Aon to me, but what do you guys think?

So, I only recently read Mistborn: Secret History. I found it very interesting, but a major discrepancy came up. In the Cognitive Realm on Scadrial, Kelsier was able to walk around on the parts that should have been cognitive "ocean" as if it were land, whereas Shallan nearly drowned while in an equivalent place. Also, the "spren(for lack of a better term)" in Scadrian Shadesmar were semi-solid smoke versions of what they looked like in the physical realm, whereas on Roshar they manifest as spheres. Basically, why is the Cognitive Realm on Scadrial so different from the Cognitive Realm on Roshar?

So I just finished listening to the first era of Mistborn last week, and I’m a little confused about something, namely what exactly did Preservation do to keep Ruin ‘imprisoned’ for so long? Because the way it’s described in Secret History makes it seem like he ‘physically’ locked Ruin away in the Well (at least that’s how Kelsier perceives it). But when Kelsier says that to Fuzz he basically calls him an ignorant fool for saying something so silly. So what exactly did Fuzz do? Was it just that he essentially ‘enveloped’ Ruin with his own power such that Ruin wasn’t really able to affect anything because Preservation’s own power would counter it? If so then how did the Well figure into it? Clearly the Well was only a fraction of Preservation’s total power. Even after listening to Secret History a second time I’m still confused about this. Note: I understand the Atium part.

Ever had one of those thoughts that made you think I am the only person in the whole world who could have thought this, and disregarding everything else - this makes me special (in an endearing way I'm sure) So, Theory Magic Time.. (TMT) Is Preservation's / Leras's plan concluded? To expand: was Fuzz's "brilliant" plan only to deal with Ruin / Ati and create Harmony or is his "plan" still happening and potentially have greater Cosmere implications than has been insinuated.? I know I know, its heavily implied that this master plan was to deal with events in Mistborn Era 1, but!! It is Mr Sanderson.. Anyone else feel a curve ball here? Guys, I'm afraid i shall need some input here as I've only got my swelled head to put me in his place.. !~ HIF ~!

- Words of Radiance, Location 1272, Kindle Is this the same fortress that the Ire are set up in? It doesn't match Kelsier's description of the fortress, but then again it is existing mostly in the Cognitive realm, not the Physical one, in Secret History. But Kelsier states that he can tell the bricks came from somewhere else... If it is the same Fortress, it did didn't originate on Roshar, though. The plants on Roshar are more than just "green," they're hard and crusty and mobile. And still... this is the second fortress in the middle of a giant body of water that we've come across. And what happened to the fortress on Roshar if it is no longer there in Dalinar's time? I think the fortress might represent a way to travel between worlds that doesn't involve Shardpools. Afterall, I don't think the Ire got to Scadrial via either of the pools there. And if the fortress is an alternative means of transportation (or is located on one), it would explain why the 17th Shard is looking for Hoid in the Purelake. --- So my theory is this... the fortress originated on Sel and it is Elantrian architecture. It was built in the middle of a lake or ocean (possibly Lake Alonoe) and the Ire somehow uses it to travel between Shardworlds while they search for a Shard to bring back to Sel. They came to Scadrial first to try to capture Preservation after Leras was killed. They set the fortress down in a giant ocean. The water helps the bricks of the fortress hold on to their "identity" in the cognitive realm. After the Ire failed to capture Preservation, they moved to Roshar to try to capture Honor after Tanavast was killed. Unfortunately, Honor was splintered by Odium in the Desolation despite the Ire trying to stop that from happening (Dalinar's vision). Having failed a second time to capture a Shard, the fortress is then moved to another yet-unknown planet. This explains why the fortress is now gone in modern Roshar. ...OK how crazy am I?

In Chapter 1 of part 2 of Secret History, when Hoid meets Kelsier, the following happens: He reached down to the corpse he was using as a boat, then removed something from his pocket. Something that glowed, though Kelsier couldn’t tell if it was something naturally radiant, or just something made of metal. The glow faded as the Drifter administered it to his vessel, then—covering the motion with a cough, as if to hide from Kelsier what he was doing—furtively applied some of the glow to his oar. When he placed the oar back into the mists, it sent the boat scooting closer to the Well. Sanderson, Brandon. Mistborn: Secret History (Kindle Locations 455-459). Dragonsteel Entertainment, LLC. Kindle Edition. What magic system is he using here?

If dalinar does ascend to a new shard Unity from the remains of honor, I want it to be an incomplete ascension. Kelsier's ascension was incomplete because he didn't have a physical body. What if dalinar can ascend physically and spiritually but not cognitively, because all that investiture became the new spren. So he doesn't get the ingrained understanding of the universe that comes with a shard, but he also gets to keep his personality. he can't creat new spren or new orders of radiants, but he can super charge the radiant that already exist. His awareness can permeate all of roshar but he can't mentally interact with it. Or something to this effect. I want this to happen because we already have an ascension from a main character, another one played straight would be boring.

In Secret History we see that Kelsier could not connected to Preservation without aid. And when he did so he was still unable to wield it well. I assume that over time his mind would move more in line with Preservation and be more capable with its power. So with that in mind, how did Ati connect to the Ruin Shard to begin with. Hoid said that he was a kind and generous person (this doesn't sound like a person who was attuned to ruin). did he have help to Connect to its power. And if so did he have trouble controlling it until he was changed by the shard's intent.

After rereading Secret History and starting the standalone Edgedancer, I'm wondering, if Kelsier happened to be able to worldhop to Roshar, would Lift be able to see him? Kel mentioned that Spook is crazy enough to be able to partially see into the Cognitive Realm and as such is able to see him. Wyndle also mentioned that Lift must be partially in the Cognitive Realm, else she wouldn't be able to use him for climbing. So would Lift be able to interact with Kel in the Cognitive Realm, since she herself appears to be partially in it?

How far back in the writing process do people think Brandon planned on bringing Kelsier back to life? I have mixed feelings about the topic, and hope that it wasn't recently. Part of what I loved about the Final Empire, was that Brandon was willing to kill off the person that the story was about. I initially felt cheated that he would bring Kelsier back. Ultimately, I think it works because of how it was done in Secret History. I also trust that Brandon has some really cool stuff planned with the character. I just felt kind of miffed initially.

In secret history right before preservation dies he tells kelsier that he can't take the power he doesn't have an infinity mind. (I don't have the quote so that about as goo as I can do) That was after kel had jumped into the well so his soul had expanded. But not his mind? so what is this infinity mind and how do I get one. Clearly the shards have one or at least eventually got one after having there shard for so long. Does a coper mind ferochemist have one. What would happen to some one in the physical realm with an infinity mind does it let them focus on everything or just remember. Could you locate some one with an infinity mind or even better does it let you world hop?

Are the "plants and animals" in the Cognitive Realm here spren? Just basing this on the WoB that confirmed that there are spren on the CR on Scadrial. Maybe I'm blind, but I couldn't find any threads talking about these plants and animals.

Discuss the novella, Mistborn: Secret History here. It is strongly recommended that you not only have read the original trilogy, but also Bands of Mourning before reading this. You should just close this thread and forum if you haven't. For the announcement, see here Go ahead, I'll wait. For the rest of you, this is your place. This topic will open 12:01am Mountain time, January 26th. It will remain locked until then. When you are able to reply to this thread, that means you post spoilers in this forum, so you can make other topics at that point, too. Please review the Bands/Secret History spoiler policies too!

1 Why would Kelsier store (and as a consequence, lose) his memory of meeting the southern scadrians? 2 how did Hoid (someone Kelsier dislikes) get hold of it?

So, I was rereading Words of Radiance the other day (I gotta find a better intro seriously) and I was thinking about the fabrial which Darkness/Nin/Nalan uses to revive Szeth. At the time Words of Radiance came out, I just kinda accepted it as a thing that apparently happened in the cosmere but I didn't know how. There's a lot of that in the Cosmere. Then Secret History came out, giving us a behind-the-scenes look at death in the cosmere, people's cognitive shadows briefly hesitating in the cognitive realm before moving on to the true afterlife in the series (the Tranquiline Halls or whatever you want to call it). People with a significant amount of Investiture can stay a bit longer, but will eventually get pulled in. Unless you're a Shard, of course. Szeth isn't, which is why I figure Nin's fabrial works via pulling someone's cognitive shadow back in their body before they can move on. It explains Nin's comment about "seconds later, and it would have been too late." Szeth was about to move on, but Nin decided he wasn't done yet. Always assuming my assumptions are correct, this raises two lines of thought in my mind. Firstly, I assume something similar happens for Kelsier. I am very curious just how similar. We know he's spiked now, and we know Hemalurgic spikes can transfer power from other magic systems. I mean, it's always possible that two distinct magic systems happen to share an ability, but I'll believe that when I see it. And yes, fabrials are as much technology as they are magic in the traditional sense, but they seem to imitate other magics as often as not (see Oathgates and the bonding gem in a Deadblade). Time will tell on that one. Second, just how far can this ability stretch? The only known limitation is that Nin needed Szeth's body for the fabrial to do anything. It puts a stopper on some of the more outrageous possiblities (i.e. resurrecting Tanavast or bringing a spren fully into the Physical realm), but Kelsier suggests that rule may not be hard and fast. His body was eaten by a kandra, yet here he is. Maybe it isn't his original body he's in now, but that just raises more questions. I don't know what to make of this many possibilities, but lemme know if you guys do.

-- Contains some Secret History information-- On p660 of Hero of Ages, the first generation is discussing the clash between Ruin and Preservation, and notes that Preservation's Mind was basically destroyed: Just from a bit of consideration this brings up a few things: 1) It seems that "the shadow" is refering to the "sliver" that is left of Preservation's mind (referred to in the previous sentence). Shadow + Mind = Cognitive Shadow. I'm noting this link somewhat pedantically, because I think one could say that the second speaker wasn't referring to the Mind anymore, but I think that the juxtaposition makes my reading sensible. 2) If that's true, is the implication here that when a Vessel is sufficiently weakened, to the point that they must give up their Shard and become a Sliver, they would default to a cognitive shadow (I guess assuming they remain in the cognitive realm)? 3) Based on the nearby plot of HoA, I assume that the "image" being discussed is what eventually falls to earth as Leras's body. That would be the same "body" (cognitive shadow in the cognitive realm until it is destroyed at last) that Kelsier interacts with in Secret History, he himself being a cognitive shadow. If this is the case, does it imply that a cognitive shadow still retains connection to a physical body somehow? 4) If shades are cognitive shadows (implied in Secret History?), and shades are warded away by silver, and Vessel is a cognitive shadow (either always or just when it loses it's Shard), it could make sense that silver would be Allomantically inert, as it would have negative interactions with Preservation? How far afield have I gotten here? 5) How bad of a job have I done putting this in the right forum?

While rereading Elantris, I took a look at the Aon dictionary and stumbled over the Aon IRE, meaning "Time, Age". Any thoughts about it being connected to the Ire in SH? (Somehow an obvious similarity, so I searched the forum for it and didn't find anything - if there is something I didn't find, just pull this over there.)

I was a bit surprised I hadn't already found a thread talking about this, to be honest. If it exists, please let me know. With that out of the way, Mistborn: Secret History has allomantic symbols at the beginning of every "part," as well as every chapter. Except it doesn't. The ones on the chapter heads are what you would expect, symbols tied to one of the sixteen metals on our mystical pie chart of allomancy. The parts are a little different, though. Two of them (parts 3 and 4) are attached to Lerasium and Atium, respectively. The other four (cover/6, 1, 2, and 5) are completely unknown to me. So let's talk about those, shall we? [Cover/6+1]I don't have a whole lot to say about the symbols on the inside cover and also part six or part one of SH, except to say that they're both unusually shaped, as allomantic symbols go. The cover/6 has two lines not pierced by a spike, and One has a spike not attatched to a line, as well as five spikes in total. All three attributes are seen on only one other symbol (Lerasium has an unconnected line, duralumin five spikes, and Copper an unconnected spike). I've assumed for a while that the spikes and lines are a hemalurgic map in one way or another, but I can't remember if there's a WoB on that. I can't make head or tail of these two, though I'm fairly certain they're important somehow. [2]Moving on, Two has easily the strangest design of the set, so much so it looks like something else entirely. 3 lines, stacked on top of each other evenly, and as many as sixteen spikes. I say "as many as" because, unlike most allomantic symbols, the majority of the "heads" of the spikes are not in view. Only six could be considered visible, and they all come to the same point, so it's still difficult to tell... there could be a dot in the middle for all I know. Considering this part is named Well, this could simply be a symbol of the Well itself. The sixteen spikes, then, could be a representation of allomancy itself. We could even claim, since all of the spikes face the center, but many touch only the outermost circle, that the three lines represent the three planes of existence. The ones reaching toward the center, therefore, would be the metals whose application reaches beyond the mere physical. This may be reading too much into it, but I'll still wager that the existence of exactly sixteen spikes is intentional. [5]And that brings us to number five. Five features a single spike, two lines, and four dots. Another oddity- all 18 known allomantic symbols (16 plus Atium and Lerasium) have exactly one dot, no more, no less. This applies to the cover/6 and One as well, though Two is still difficult to tell. If we go back to my assumption that these symbols are hemalurgic maps of some kind, I had assumed that the dot represented the head, the lines some part of the human body. This new symbol is a bit perplexing to me after that. Also strange, every line has been a fragment of a circle. Usually about 3/4ths of it, though there were exceptions. The lines in Five seem to be to an oval, much thinner on the axis the spike is placed through, and much longer on the perpendicular. I... really can't make head nor tail of this one. I've wondered if Five is tied to Autonomy, one way or another (taking Autonomy's presence, though never directly confirmed in AU, as a given in Scadrial), but it's a bit of a stretch. Autonomy makes no overt moves in SH at all, in part 5 or elsewhere, unlike parts 3 and 4 which very much starred Ati and Leras. The other possibility is, of course, that it's the theoretical hemalurgic map that would let Kell return to the physical plane. TL;DR: No clue about cover/6 and 1st part symbols, 2 might be symbol of the Well or allomancy itself, 3 is Atium, 4 is Lerasium, 5 might be Autonomy's metal or Kell's unique, completely unproven hemalurgy, or somthing else entirely. I think that's about all. That one really got long on me. Anyway, thoughts? Am I reading too much into it? Do you have your own theories to share? EDIT: added tl;dr EDIT EDIT: added part six (same as cover (inside flap)) Also, just remembered the epilogue has nothing but a single spike for an allomantic sybmol... seems ominous. LAST EDIT I PROMISE: Apparently it goes like this: 1. Malatium (makes sense, given context) 2. Kredik Shaw (makes sense) 3. Atium (makes sense) 4. Lerasium (makes sense) 5. Steel Alphabetized Aon Ire (makes sense, and super cool) 6. Ettmetal (makes sense) Epilogue: Hemalurgy foreshadowing I guess? Thanks to Eki, WeiryWriter, and The One Who Connects for the info!

Kelsier willingly chooses to remain in the Cognitive Realm, and not go to the Beyond, despite the fact that he might meet Mare there. So, what matters more to Kelsier: himself or Mare?