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  1. Kinda weird question, but does anyone remember what exactly Kaladin is wearing when he swears the 4th ideal in RoW? I want to draw fanart for a friend’s birthday but I don’t remember the details and don’t have the books here to check. Thanks in advance!
  2. I heard Skullcrusher Mountain by Jonathan Coulton the other day and thought, wow, that would really work for Raboniel, and here we are The song is attached. Here are the lyrics, written by myself and Priscellie. I hope you enjoy! Urithiru Tower 2023.mp3 Urithiru Tower So this is your secret lair in Urithiru Tower I hope that you've enjoyed our stay so far I see you’ve met my daughter Essu Her behaviour is quite disturbing But I assure you she’s harmless enough She’s insane, calls for her mommy, And she has a way of learning human songs And humming them to me I’m so into you But I’m way too smart for you Even my Regals think I’m crazy I’m not surprised that you agree If you could find some way to be A little bit less afraid of me You’d see that Odium’s dominion Isn’t total, ‘cause I’m not gonna kill you yet I called this secret weapons plan pure research to please you But I get the feeling that you don’t like it What’s with all the scheming? You like secrets, you like research, Maybe you don’t like carnage so much Maybe I killed too many humans Isn’t it enough to know that I’m willing to share My Towerlight with you? I’m so into you But I’m way too tall for you Even my Regals think I’m crazy I’m not surprised that you agree If you could find some way to be A little bit less afraid of me You’d see that Odium’s dominion Isn’t total, ‘cause I’m not gonna kill you yet Picture the two of us alone inside a room where we can sing While out across Roshar our music causes Worldwide genocide And whether singers win, or humans I don’t care Let’s just end it But it wouldn’t mean quite as much to me to have to watch you die You know it isn’t easy occupying Urithiru Tower So maybe you could cut me just a little slack Would it kill you to stay in this room? I’ve been lovely, I’ve been gracious And this Tower is full of Fused Odium is losing patience Baby you should stay and be my Voice of Lights And sing the Rhythm of War with me I’m so into you But I’m way too old for you Even my Regals think I’m crazy I’m not surprised that you agree If you could find some way to be A little bit less afraid of me You’d see that - oh, a Voidlight dagger How delightful, dear, that You’re gonna kill me dead Really completely dead I can feel it, I’m dead
  3. Something occurred to me sometime after I read Rhythm of War. In that mind-blowing scene of Rayse dying and King T becoming the new Odium, the text states that Taravangian felt a disconnect from his body upon realizing he had just died from Szeth's stab wound. Immediately afterward, he kills Rayse and Ascends and we know the rest from there. But how "dead" was he? I ask because in Mistborn: Secret History, we see that when Kelsier Ascended to become Preservation, one of the things that limited him was his lack of a tie to the Physical Realm (you know, from being unalive). Ruin gloats about how he's still superior because he has ties to all three Realms. So that would indicate a Cognitive Shadow/soul of a person becoming a Shard doesn't quite get the whole deal. But doesn't this happen to Taravangian? He died, then after he died, he became Odium. Does this mean his tie was severed and he only has a Connection to the Cognitive and Spiritual Realms? It almost seems like a bit of an oversight on Brandon's part for the sake of making King T's Ascension work the way he wanted it to. Or am I wrong and he immediately used his newfound Odium power to immediately tie his soul to his body again and stay connected in all three Realms. That would make sense, considering how very very recent his death was. So does anyone have a definitive answer on that? Or even a most likely one? Has Brandon answered this already or could it be added to a list of questions to ask him? I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on that.
  4. So we know Nightblood is full of Investiture. It is so full it bleeds black smoke. It is more invested than an Honorblade, can kill vessels of shards, and was made by awakening. Nightblood was based on shardblade design maybe even honorblade design. It seems to me that the 5 scholars at the height of awakening scholarship traveled to Roshar. They were impressed by the shard blades. The sleepless were tasked with guarding the dawnshards. One way to protect a dawnshard from Odium is to make it harder to reach. They gave it to shashara who created nightblood. She got the dawnshard Destroy. They decided the best way to safetly use it was if it was comomanded only to destroy evil. They figured that would make the dawnshard safer. Rsyan was commanded to not bind a spren because using the dawnshard in conjunction with magic is dangerous. Ie creating Nightblood with awakening. A shardblade so powerful because the dawnshard (similar to having the 5th heightening) was used as the force to awaken it, maybe with additional breaths. What do you think an awakened solider with the Destroy Dawnshard looks like?
  5. So, we know each Radiant Order has a "resonance" that occurs through having two different surges, much like Twinborn do in Mistborn. For example, it's known the Windrunners have a vastly increased number/strength of Squires, and the Lightweavers have some sorta memory ability. But what about the other orders? Any ideas? Off the top of my head, it seems to have something to do with the spiritual identity of the surges, since you could argue spiritual gravitation (drawing people to you) and spiritual adhesion (uniting people) would have that sort of effect.
  6. So I've been wondering after nightblood has it's fill of investiture and was full following the rayse incident, would it be safe to wield for a time?
  7. Rhythm of War - Chapter 84. Scholar "Midius once told me … told me we could use Investiture … to enhance our minds, our memories, so we wouldn’t forget so much." (Kelek) Rhythm of War - Chapter 93. Strong Enough "Veil became Stormlight, glowing brightly. The color faded from her, becoming pure white. Her memories integrated into Shallan’s. Her skills became Shallan’s. And Shallan recognized everything she had done" Anyone else find it weird that Shallan can store memories in Stormlight?
  8. Chaos

    Shardcast: Jasnah

    There's still so many Stormlight topics left to do (and such little time) but it's time to do a deep dive about Jasnah! We delve into her philosophy and a certain lesson, her "lunacy," and what happened with her in Rhythm of War! This episode we have Eric (Chaos), Alyx (Feather), Ian (Weiry), Jessie (Lady Lameness), Evgeni (Argent), and Shannon (Grey). Brandon's Rhythm of War Chapter 17 Annotation on Jasnah's sexuality: https://www.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/jmwe4r/last_weeks_annotation/ Today's amazing thumbnail is by Grant Hansen: https://www.instagram.com/p/BTXpUsJlBpB/ 00:00 Introductions and Show & Tell 06:46:29 Jasnah 13:27 Personality, Philosophy, and the Lesson 1:05:50 "Lunacy" 1:32:17 Jasnah and Hoid; Jasnah's Sexuality 2:23:11 Wrapping up 2:25:54 Who's That Cosmere Character If you like our content, support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/17thshard For discussion, theories, games, and news, come to https://www.17thshard.com Come talk with us and the community on the 17th Shard Discord: https://discord.gg/17thshard Want to learn more about the cosmere and more? The Coppermind Wiki is where it's at: https://coppermind.net Read all Words of Brandon on Arcanum: https://wob.coppermind.net Subscribe to Shardcast: http://feeds.soundcloud.com/users/soundcloud:users:102123174/sounds.rss Send your Who's That Cosmere Characters to [email protected]
  9. Hi all, a quick question for everyone. As we know, Hoid and Jasnah are now romantically involved. I'm not going to lie––I was definitely a bit surprised here. My personal theories had been that Hoid was carrying a torch for someone from his past and that Jasnah didn't want a romantic interest, but here we are. I would usually never complain about a well-balanced intellectual relationship between some of the most beloved characters in the series, but I'm a bit concerned for these two. First of all, Hoid and Jasnah are both incredibly ambitious individuals. They both have their own agendas and, while they may line up at the moment, I'm not sure how much longer that will last. We know Hoid has to have some sort of end goal, but is it even something that we would consider "good" and not "evil"? We can't tell. He's been working to achieve something for thousands of years, so I think it's unlikely that he would stop for a single romantic interest, unless his relationship with Jasnah develops pretty seriously over the course of the series. Also, Jasnah has a very strong set of convictions and morals. She probably wouldn't change her entire mindset around just to accommodate any sort of emotional intimacy with Hoid, even if she enjoys it. In my opinion, while they both like being in a romantic relationship, they're both using each other for something. Hoid requires a social standing and access to resources (and an incentive not to kill him, even when he's being... himself), which Jasnah can provide him. Jasnah, on the other hand, is a scholar at heart. She wants knowledge about the Cosmere and its workings, and who better to aid her than the worldhopping, quick-witted menace himself? Another point of concern for me stems from the language that they use. Hoid tells Jasnah that he loves her for her paranoia, out of all of her qualities. I thought this was a little bit suspicious. It definitely doesn't seem romantic; if anything, it seems like he's seeking protection from something. Jasnah's paranoia could be keeping them both alive, sure, but a constant state of stress is not something that someone wishes on a partner. This seems especially unbalanced when we take into account the fact that his presence seems to put Jasnah at ease. At the very least, they seem to have some... minor communication issues. A third thing could be Jasnah's asexuality. Hoid doesn't seem to be completely considerate of that, hoping that his kisses and touch can spark something in her, when that's just not how it works. Jasnah does participate in physical intimacy for his pleasure, but I still think he should be more understanding about her preferences. To be honest, I'm kind of rooting for them. Hoid and Jasnah would make an unstoppable power couple, and I genuinely believe that they like one another and that they could actually fall in love. They just need to have a serious talk about what they want from each other, how far their relationship will go (unofficial lovers? marriage? plenty of possibilities), and their personal plans for both the near and far future. And if they decide that they can't speak about those things, well... that kind of speaks for itself. For future Stormlight books, I would love to see one's reaction when the other is in serious danger (it might be a bit difficult to find a circumstance that could kill Hoid, but Nightblood's on Roshar, so anything is possible). With any strong relationship––especially romantic ones––a reaction in that situation says a lot about the personalities of and dynamic between the two characters. And, I know between now and the next Stormlight book, I'm definitely going to be looking through everything Cosmere with a fine-toothed comb for mentions of Hoid and his end goals. Hoid and Jasnah are both already so interesting as individuals, so there's obviously a lot to analyze when considering them together. Thoughts? Opinions? P.S. I almost considered doing an astrology-esque analysis of Radiant order compatibility. Are a Lightweaver and an Elsecaller as meant to be as an Aries and a Libra? Or are they completely doomed, like a Taurus and a Leo? (I'm sorry if these relate to your life in any way––just picked the first ones off of Google. ) If anyone has actually done a zodiac-style analysis of the Radiants, I would love to see it. If not... well then. I guess I have a new project on my hands?
  10. Introduction: This started out as a twitter thread but the more I thought about it, the more ideas I had and the more it expanded. Family Before they were handed over to the Honorblades and became devout members of Stone Shamanism, Szeth’s family were farmers- the highest respected position in Shinovar. Given the name Stone Shamans and Szeth’s psychological state, we can assume that the Stone Shamans are a religious institution in Shinovar. Szeth’s family went from respected members to the lowest members of society. Later on, Szeth was labeled as truthless and kicked out of Shinovar. Here we have a powerful (religious) institution wielding their power and using it against their citizens which drastically changed the fate of Szeth and his family. As Szeth is labelled as truthless and exiled from Shinovar, he slowly learns that he wasn’t wrong and Stone Shamanism was false. He comes to view Shinovar’s “false leaders” as a great injustice. His solution is to cleanse Shinovar of its false leaders. Moash was raised by his grandparents who were darkeyed silversmiths in Kholinar. They were high ranking darkeyes - 2nd Nahn and Moash noted that they were important darkeyes. They had a competitive business enough to the point it bothered Roshone. He used his connections and powers to the crown to have Moash’s grandparents sent to jail. Despite Moash’s grandparents being important enough to demand a trial, they were not as powerful as the lighteyes and the Kholin Dynasty. They still lost their lives. The common thread here is that two institutional powers from two separate countries abuse their power, which causes two younger men from well regarded families to have traumatic experiences with institutional powers in their own countries. Despite being of important rank, it meant nothing compared to the institutional power. Their traumatic experiences both deal with their family being affected by those more powerful than them. They both have grievances toward these said powers and view murder as a method to solve their problems. Both of their closest family members died while they were away. Ishar killed Szeth’s father after Szeth was exiled from Shinovar. Moash’s grandparents were killed while he was working on a caravan. Manipulation (Relationship with Taravangian / Rayse) Taravangian used Szeth’s mental instability against him. He knew that Szeth was unanimously kicked out of his country and that had nothing else left to him except for his honor and Stone Shamanism, which Taravangian used against him. He made him into what he wanted - a weapon that terrorized the world. Hell, Taravangian had notes on manipulating Szeth. Any time Szeth stepped out of line, Taravangian made sure he was not to be questioned. Taravangian traumatized him to the point where if he moved abruptly it caused Szeth to jump with a sword. In Rhythm of War, he constantly has trauma responses to anything dealing with Taravangian. When he heard Taravangian needed a round stone with quartz inclusions” Szeth went into panic mode. He thought Taravangian was going to use him again. The only reason Szeth’s mental health slightly progressed is because of Nale. Rayse establishes his relationship with the fused, singers, and Moash on a lie. He appears to them as a singer when in reality there are no singer shards and he appears as a Shin person to Dalinar. If human-hating Moash ever found out Rayse was a human, it would diminish his perception on the shard. He makes Moash (and probably everyone who turns to Odium) dependent on him. Moash needs Odium to take away the guilt and the pain for this relationship to even occur. He positively reinforces Moash by telling him that he understands Moash. Rayse reinforces his authority towards Moash and tells him that he needs to fear him. Rayse uses Moash to get to what he really wants: Kaladin as his champion. Most people don’t really notice this aspect because Moash is planning to manipulate and abuse Kaladin at the same time he is being manipulated. Also, part of it is consensual, but still built on a lie. Despite being manipulated and used, they both are responsible for committing heinous crimes in the names of other people. Moash is responsible for trying to get Kaladin to kill himself. He is responsible for killing Teft and killing Jezrien at the demands of the fused. Szeth is responsible for killing the world leaders and plunging the entire world into chaos. Their psychology in this aspect is interesting because both of them are followers, not leaders. They have trouble forging their own lives. They are isolated from people, from human interactions, which makes it easier for them to be manipulated. Anger, Vengeance, and Hatred The word Vengeance is persistently used in relation to Moash. For instance, Kaladin tells Moash he just wants “petty vengeance” and Moash himself when questioned by the fused said he wants vengeance. Ever since we met Moash, he’s carried this grudge against Elhokar and let the hatred toward Elhokar build up and fester. We never met who Moash was before this event so that’s why he seems like a miserable person from the beginning. In The Way of Kings, Moash said he wanted to impose the same system that existed back on the lighteyes, not end the system entirely. He expresses that he wants to be in charge and have the lighteyes work the fields and die by Parshendi arrows – not that slavery should be abolished. He wants to hurt those who hurt him. Moashs’s wrath led him to irrational conclusions such as thinking killing Elhokar would do anything for Moash. He didn’t end the monarchy or solve anything between lighteyes and darkeyes. Did he avenge his grandparents? Maybe, but do you think his grandparents would love to see how their beloved grandson has been spending his time as a menace to society? He sought out to fulfill his own personal revenge because he was obsessed with punishing Elhokar. When Kaladin thwarted Moash’s plan to assassinate Elhokar, he said he would try to get justice for him, Moash didn’t want to listen because what he heard was Elhokar escaping his punishment. Moash viewed Elhokar has the sole perpetuator in his grandparent’s murder when in reality the entire system was to blame for their death from the king to (especially) Roshone to the palace guards to the conditions in the prison cell. In the end, vengeance meant so much to Moash that he let it break his relationship with Kaladin. Szeth’s greatest fear was someone taking advantage of him because he knew he would comply with their demands because of his honor. Taravangian manipulated and abused Szeth’s nature as truthless. Szeth has been hating Taravangian ever since he met him. He mentions he wanted to murdered him but his honor prevented him from doing so. It wasn’t until Szeth learned his father died did he let go of his tightly held honor and kill Taravangian. When Szeth killed Taravangian, he also killed Rayse which left a power vacuum open for Taravangian to take up in the similar fashion Moash killing Elhokar left a power vacuum open for Jasnah to step in and become Queen of Alethkar. They both killed people they held deep resentment and hatred towards. It wasn’t until their family member died did they unleash their emotions and start killing in anger. It was his family’s death that caused Moash to hate Elhokar for years and he let that resentment fester, until he killed Elhokar. It wasn’t until Ishar confirmed that he killed Szeth’s father did Szeth unleash his hatred towards Taravangian. Guilt, Pain, & Self-Hatred They both have extreme and exact opposite coping mechanisms when managing their guilt and pain. Moash gives into the pain. He doesn’t want to feel any pain. He wants to forget about everyone he’s hurt. Szeth is the exact opposite. He feels the pain. He feels the screams of those he killed. He doesn’t allow himself a moment of peace because he feels guilty for the people he’s killed. He carries his burden to his own detriment. Justice Justice is a theme for both characters. They both have been wronged by their respective societies. They both see the wrongs of their society because they have been personally wronged by it along with their loved ones. Neither of them mention a desire to make their society better. Moash cares about justice, but it’s different from a Skybreaker’s pursuit of justice. Moash brings up injustices and brings awareness to the reader of the injustices in Alethkar. On the other hand, Skybreakers deal with injustices and keep the upper class in check. “Another form of justice” is the title of the chapter where Moash says he wanted to assassinate Elhokar to Kaladin and avenge his grandparents. Revenge is another form of justice. In addition, when he was with the fused, he noticed how the listener slaves were being treated far worse than everyone else and demanded answers from the fused as to why this was allowed to happen Szeth’s motivation for cleansing Shinovar is ambiguous however it’s been on his mind ever since he learned he was never truthless. It could lean towards vengeance. He was unanimously kicked out of Shinovar. Unlike Moash, Szeth has a highspren, Nale (despite being crazy), and Dalinar to help and guide him in understanding justice. Szeth’s journey seems to be that he needs to learn what justice is, which is the theme of the next book. Fun Fact: There is a Seth in the bible, son of Adam and Eve, born after Cain killed Abel. Abel was considered “God’s chosen” and he was loved by God. Cain killed him out of jealousy. A common interpretation for him is that he’s a symbol of God’s law. No matter how many times you try to kill Abel, God will place a Seth. Evidently, Seth represents divine justice. Other Similarities Slavery: Both went from slave to warrior. Both were used as weapons to kill for their masters. Gifts from the Leaders of their Groups: Moash was gifted a shardblade by Kaladin who was the leader of Bridge four. Similarly, Szeth was gifted Nightblood by Nale who is the leader of the Skybreakers. Both men left their groups. Isolation from family: If Moash and Kaladin are the same age, that would mean that Moash lost his grandparents at age 14. He’s been without his family for 5 and half years. Working for the Kholins: Moash worked under the Kholins as a bodyguard for Dalinar then killed a member of the Kholin family. Inversely, Szeth killed a member of the Kholin family and eventually worked as a bodyguard for Dalinar. Diagram: they are both connected to it. Murders I don’t want to say there’s no difference between these two characters. They both have killed "gods" and kings. Most of Szeth's murder are people he wasn't close with nor did he kill people the readers are close to. Moash is on the opposite end. He killed Teft and Elhokar. After Image They both have after images. Moash “Moash shied away from the light—but a version of him, transparent and filmy, broke off and stepped toward the light instead. Like an afterimage." Szeth “And Szeth … if Szeth moved too quickly, he could catch sight of his own frail soul, attached incorrectly to his body, trailing his motions like a glowing afterimage.” Eyes In Rhythm of War, Taravangian describes Szeth’s eyes as “dead” and Navani’s describes Moash’s eyes as “lifeless.” Dead and lifeless are synonyms. There’s some heavy “the eyes are the gateway into the soul” metaphors that are going on here. “He prepared himself for the sight of Szeth. That haunted stare. Those dead eyes. Instead, at the window, Taravangian saw a young man with black hair peppered blond.” “Where were you, lighteyes, when your son condemned innocents to death?” He turned, affixing Navani with those lifeless eyes. Identity Issues (Name Changes) “Szeth-son-son … Szeth-son … Szeth, Truthless … Szeth. Just Szeth. Szeth of Shinovar, once called the Assassin in White, had been reborn.” - Oathbringer chapter 90 Naming convention in Shinovar is about which family you belong to and Szeth here is struggling to find where he belongs. Is Szeth part of his family? He hasn’t seen them or thought about them in years. Is he a skybreaker? He is a skybreaker but he’s not connected to the others in the order. Vyre is the person attached to Odium. Moash is the person he was once. He had this whole struggle. Moash was chained to Kaladin. Jezrien’s Blade Stormlight begins with Jezrien, the leader of the heralds, leaving his honorblade in stone, and abandoning humanity and Taln. The next chapter happens 4500 years after, where Szeth wields the same blade to kill Gavilar and Szeth views it as a curse. Everyone who has held the blade is troubled. This same blade was later given to Moash by the Fused for killing Jezrien. Syl in Words of Radiance say “No. But Kaladin, you have to understand. With this sword, someone can do what you can, but without the...checks a spren requires.” Szeth and Moash came into vast amounts of Windrunner power without saying the Oaths required. This could be the glimpse into what went wrong on Ashyn. Two Blind Men Theory Szeth and Moash seems thematically fit the “Two Blind Men” story really well. Recap “Two blind men waited at the end of an era, contemplating beauty. They sat atop the world’s highest cliff, overlooking the land and seeing nothing.” “Huh?” She looked to him. “‘Can beauty be taken from a man?’ the first asked the second. “[...] ‘But what if your ears were removed, your hearing taken away? Your tongue taken out, your mouth forced shut, your sense of smell destroyed? What if your skin were burned so that you could no longer feel? What if all that remained to you was pain? You could not know beauty then. [...] “Then beauty, to that person, would be the times when the pain lessens. Central theme of this story is that beauty is experiencing less pain, which is a shared theme between these two characters because they don’t know how to handle their pain. Moash is constantly saying “take my pain” Szeth is experiencing the screams and guilt everyday and he’s not letting experience any moments of pleasure Side note (that may or may not fit this story): Szeth is referred to as a work of art and Nale did call Szeth holding onto his personal code “the only genuine beauty in the world.” Blindness Jezrien asked three people “have you seen me?” Dalinar was the only person who confirmed that he could. Moash said “no” and now he’s blind. I think this scene foreshadowed Moash becoming blind and it also might foreshadow Szeth becoming blind as well. “Have you seen me?” the man asked with slurred speech. (The Way of Kings Prologue) “Have you seen me?” the man asked as Moash knelt. “No,” Moash said, then rammed the strange golden knife into the man’s stomach. The man took it with a quiet grunt, smiled a silly smile, then closed his eyes. (Oathbringer) Conclusions Separately, these two characters seem to have vague similarities but altogether it starts weaving a greater picture. There has been a lot of prediction towards these two characters dying. Moash dying would only absolve Moash of what he did. Szeth dying would mean he’s free to never feel guilt for what he’s done. No, dying would be the cheap way out for them. Their stories seem lead towards a place where they need to live knowing what they did was wrong and deal with the pain.
  11. When explaining to Lirin about why surgeons are still necessary at Urithiru, Kaladin tells him that they only have about fifty Edgedancers, and only three Truthwatchers, who are the only two orders orders with access to the Progression surge. Now, this was well before Rlain bonded Tumi, so we know he's not one of those three. Two of those three we already specifically know about; Renarin and Stump. Now, it very well could be that Brandon just picked a very low number as a worldbuilding detail to show how rare/scattered the Truthwatchers are, but I do find it a bit curious that we know a fair amount about 2/3 members of the order (or 3/4 now) and virtually nothing about the last one, and I think there's a chance they'll be significant further down the line. What are your thoughts?
  12. I’m sure this (or similar) has been posted before, but I’ve been enjoying thinking about it so I’m posting here for discussion opportunity. We have a couple of confirmed cases now of living shardplate. Kaladin swears the fourth ideal and gains his shardplate, composed of windspren. Jasnah’s living plate is confirmed to be made of logicspren. (1) What makes a spren a likely candidate to make up a radiant’s sharplate (based on Kaladin and Jasnah’s examples): • The radiant is commonly around this type of spren, or vice versa • The spren is attracted to things the radiant does (such as windspren appearing when Kaladin “flies”) • The spren is not a “higher” spren More criteria that are my personal opinion only: • Not an emotion spren. My reasoning is that emotions are fickle and fleeting, and thus attracting emotion spren would be inconsistent. Gloryspren fall into this category. • Not an “unsavory” spren, such as rotspren, deathspren, plaguespren, decayspren. My reasoning is that these would be less likely to be “attracted” to things the radiants do. Here is a breakdown of confirmed shardplate and my guesses. What are your thoughts? Confirmed: • Windrunners = windspren • Elsecallers = logicspren Likely: • Edgedancers = lifespren • Lightweavers = creationspren Personal guesses: • Willshapers = musicspren (I’m basing this solely on the fact that the stones “sing” to Venli) • Dustbringers = flamespren • Skybreakers = starspren • Bondsmiths = bindspren (2), or possibly a different spren type for each bondsmith No idea, maybe a spren we haven’t seen yet: • Truthwatchers • Stonewards Other potential shardplate candidates: • Concentrationspren • Gravitationspren (3) • Luckspren (4) (1) Jasnah’s shardplate is confirmed to be made of logicspren in a WoB: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/406-general-reddit-2020/#e14477 (2) Bindspren are the tiny spren Kaladin sees sticking a rock to a wall when he uses a full lashing in Way of Kings chapter 57. (3) Gravitation spren are found around heavy objects. They are used by singers to take on work form. (4) Luckspren are arrow-shaped and bond to greatshells and larkins.
  13. A while ago it was discovered that the continent of Roshar exactly matches a 3d slice of a 4d Julia set. For those who didn't know, go to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_set and watch the video until you see Roshar. Now, I am not familiar enough with advanced maths myself to do this, but I imagine there is an equation for each Julia set and I was wondering if anyone would know if there's any way with the information we now know about the pure tones of Roshar to make even a guess at the equation for Roshar. I also know that if you type in Julia sets and music into google there's a scholarly article about how Julia sets can create musical pieces (think the rhythms of each shard, maybe?). I'm sure cymatics connects with all this too. Whatever you know or whatever you theorize (or whatever posts that have come up about this before) I'd love to hear it!
  14. Hello everyone, I'm new to the forums. Sorry if this has already been discussed somewhere else. I have been thinking about Bondsmiths, Connection, and why it's so dangerous lately, In this series, we have a reoccurring issue that happens when a Bondsmith starts trying to understand their powers and it usually ends badly. Ishar played with the surges and destroyed a planet. He is doing experiments with Spren. I have a hunch he is playing with adjusting connection so he can escape Roshar. When Melishi discovered how to seal Ba-Ado-Mishram in a gem it damaged everything on Rosthar as stated by the Sibling. The events that followed were the Recreance. What did the Radiants know that we don't? Lastly, Dalinar is literally changing the very nature of the Stormfather. Now we have another Bondsmith... Navani has been set up and this scholar amongst scholars type character. I imagine that she is going to apply her skills in this to her new Bondsmith powers. I can only imagine what she might discover. Can a Bondsmith allow Rosharins and their Spren to world hop? Can a Shard be uninvested/connected from a system? What even is Adhesion? Navani is the perfect meta gateway to some high-level Cosmere mombo-jumbo (or would it be Capital Mombo-Jumbo?). That being said eventually, she is going to mess around and find out something she shouldn't. It's the nature of a scientist. I would love to see Brandon parallel her story to J. Robert Oppenhiemer and how he felt when he realizes what he created with the atomic bomb. I am terrified for book 5
  15. Can you believe that we've never done an actual episode on Kaladin? He's kind of a big deal, and he did a lot in Rhythm of War, so let's get into it. We also, of course, talk about depression and mental illness as well. This episode we have Eric (Chaos), Ian (Weiry), David (Windrunner), Ben (Overlord Jebus), and Jessie (Lady Lameness)! Thumbnail art by Ari Ibarra, which is amazing as always: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/qA3EWL Exmakina's excellent Kaladin and Lirin comic: https://exmakina.tumblr.com/post/635179935258050560/trying-to-remember-how-to-draw-these-nerds-with-a Hello Future Me's video on writing mental illness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6c8o68ghGBM 00:00 Introductions 4:00 General Thoughts on Kaladin 15:07 Kaladin in Rhythm of War and Mental Health 43:41 Szeth 52:26 Lirin 1:12:53 Tien 1:24:23 Fifth Ideal 1:31:46 Fight Scenes and the Glowing Yellow Eyes 1:41:16 Lyn 1:44:05 Syl 1:56:03 Leshwi 2:01:47 Adolin and Shallan 2:08:23 Moash 2:11:24 Who will Kaladin end up with? 2:24:28 Who's That Cosmere Character 2:31:39 Random Shadows of Self Spoilers 2:33:55 Back to WTCC If you like our content, support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/17thshard For discussion, theories, games, and news, come to https://www.17thshard.com Come talk with us and the community on the 17th Shard Discord: https://discordapp.com/invite/bMAUS5c Want to learn more about the cosmere and more? The Coppermind Wiki is where it's at: https://coppermind.net Read all Words of Brandon on Arcanum: https://wob.coppermind.net Subscribe to Shardcast: http://feeds.soundcloud.com/users/soundcloud:users:102123174/sounds.rss
  16. At Chapter 83 in my RoW re-read and Venli was contemplating the love she used to feel and how the tone of Cultivation used to be important to her people. She reflects on how the original listeners had left because they "rejected the conflict. Holding to family, singing to Love despite their dull forms, they'd left the war and gone a new way." This becomes the exact moment when Cultivation's tone and Odium's tone snap together in Harmony in her mind. The next word is Freedom. So my question is - what do you think the name for Cultivation and Odium's light together is? The excerpts I mentioned give a few possibilities: The Rhythm of Freedom - this fits nicely with the theme of the Listeners and it mentioned as a single word right after the experience. But does it reflect a passion for change? Or a change in passion? I feel like this is perhaps missing something, but I think it is the most likely so far. The Rhythm of Love - Love was capitalized in the excerpt leading up to the harmonizing and it is the part of herself that Venli had previously felt she had lost and was coming back to. This fits both the ideas of a passion for change or a change in passion in my mind. It sounds a little sappy and like Brandon listened for too long to the Plain White T's song, but I could get behind it. The Rhythm of Peace - But wait you might say, isn't this the Rhythm that the Listeners use all the time to check the time? It is and it is referenced so often that it could very well be one of those hidden in plain sight allusions that Brandon does so well. The Listeners initially rejected conflict - a passion to change and a change in passion from the war that was before. I think this is a stretch, but I still like it. Any other ideas for the meaning behind the Rhythm of Cultivation and Odium? As a sidenote - is there a different name other than Towerlight for Honor and Cultivation? Rhythm of the Tower doesn't seem like a great name for a Rhythm to me.
  17. Perhaps this has been discussed at length already, but I wanted to see if I could break down the incident where Dalinar touches Nale and sees into his history. First off, unless I am mistaken, the flashbacks that Dalinar sees are seen in reverse to when they happened. The alternative, for me, is that the flashbacks are out of order like deathrattles, but I don't see the point of that and the reverse chronology makes sense. "Dalinar saw Nale stepping away from a discarded Blade rammed into the stone" This sounds like Aharietiam and I believe is the clue given that these events are going to progress backward. There is no other time I can think of that Nale would discard Blade, capital B. Nale cradling a child in one arm, his Blade out as dark forces crawled across a ridge nearby Immediately this makes me think of the child deathrattle and it makes me wonder if we will see Nale again next book in a similar circumstance. There must be some significance here or it wouldn't be here. Did he save someone significant that we will hear about later? Perhaps someone important to Aharietiam? The minimum is that it shows Nale used to protect against the "dark forces". Nale standing with a group of scholars and unrolling a large writ, filled with writing. "The law cannot be moral," Nale said to them. "But you can be moral as you create laws. Ever must you protect the weakest, those most likely to be taken advantage of. Institute a right of movement, so that a family who feels their lord is unrighteous can leave his area. Then tie a lord's authority to people who follow him." Great snippit here showing how Nale used to be - a believer in laws, but with a focus on morality and protection of those weakest. Depending on who these scholars were, perhaps we can, have, or will see this system of rule somewhere? Sounds like a pretty good system to me. Note that this one is made after the next one (bonding a highspren) and so it might be at or around the time Nale swore the 5th ideal. I find it unlikely he swore the 5th ideal after Aharietiam. This is the first place we can see the humongous contrast between Past-Nale and current Nale - here morality is fundamental to law and protection at its core. With Nale being so moral and protection minded, the fifth ideal "I am the Law" gains new meaning and might have relevance for book 5 and Szeth (who it wouldn't surprise me to see swear the 5th ideal, but that's another topic). Nale kneeling before a highspren A reminder here from Brandon that Nale is a skybreaker in addition to being a Herald - this is clearly a thread not to forget. Nale fighting on a battlefield... Another fight... Another fight... Then endless desolations which come with more and more frequency towards Aharietiam, though these fights are probably pretty far from Aharietiam, time-wise. Nale clasping hands with a bearded Alethi man, regal and wise. [Jezerezeh]... "I will take this charge," Nale said softly. "With honor." "Do not consider it an honor," Jezerezeh said. "A duty, yes, but not an honor." "I understand, though I did not expect you would come to an enemy with this offer." "An enemy, yes," Jezerezeh said. "But an enemy who was correct all along, making me a villain, not you. We will fix what we've broken. Ishar and I agreed. There is no person we would welcome more eagerly into this pact than you. You are the single most honorable man I have ever had the privilege of opposing." "I wish that were true," Nale said. "But I will serve the best I can." There's a lot to unpack here, but I think the first thing we can all agree on is that this conversation happens right before the formation of the Oathpact, placing this at the beginning of the struggle between the singers and the humans. Oddities of word choice abound. First off, it is clear that Nale is honorable - is this therefore after Honor sided with the humans, or did Honor side with the humans AFTER/IN CONJUNCTION WITH the creation of the Oathpact? After all, Ishar had bondsmith powers well before the exodus from Ashyn and Ishar is the one who made the Oathpact. There is a discussion of enemies and villains and fixing what was broken. This is all laden with implications we can only guess at. So let's guess at them. If I remember correctly, all the heralds save Taln were royalty of some form or another, meaning Nale was likely a king at the beginning - whether starting on Ashyn or while staying in the Shin Valley where the humans first resided. So were he and Jezrian battle opponents (and if so was their war part of what broke Ashyn or part of what started the conflict on Roshar?) or were they political opponents - two sides of an argument. I think the latter is more likely as it leads directly into the fact that whatever the contention, Jezrian here admits wrong and the need to fix what was broken (is there any connection here to The Girl Who Looked Up?). Nale, it seems was always a little more aligned with actions that wouldn't upset or disrupt the singers and Jezrian, not. Little wonder the Fused killed Jezrian first if he was the start of it all. --- That's what I've gleaned from these passages. I imagine by book 10 we'll have seen in more detail each of these events as they will supposedly dive more into the heralds. Please let me know if I missed a clue or got something wrong (or something right). I'd love for more people to add if I've missed any connections that'll let us tease out details of the early history of Roshar.
  18. Another simple theory as I reread ROW. Adolin mentions how Jasnah is troubled by the lack of perfect gemstones in circulation - how some should naturally come up and yet almost all gemstones in circulation are flawed except for some in the Thaylen reserve. Who could be the one causing the more perfect ones to disappear? Well this topic is brought up as Adolin is pondering how to get Stormlight further in Shadesmar and who do we know who wants to transport large amounts of Stormlight long distances? Obviously the Ghostbloods. A simple theory, see? Or have I been thrown off somewhere? Also, if it is the Ghosrbloods as I suspect, are they just sitting on a wealth of Stormlight or are they doing things with it (and if so what)? I’m guessing we won’t get another moment like in Mistborn, but I could see such a wealth of Stormlight being a pivotal plot moment in Shallan’s story in book 5 as the Ghostblood plot is wrapped up.
  19. This is a simple theory that probably doesn't affect much, but I want to discuss why I think Shardplates act so different from Shardblades Shardplate, as described by Syl in her interlude, feels contentment, not pain. In contrast, Shardblades scream to Radiants. Shardplate, as we see in Adolin's chapters in Rhythm of War, does not travel to Shadesmar - it doesn't even have a Shadesmar counterpart like Shardblades do. Why are these two points so? Well, I think the puzzle pieces have finally come together. We know that a defining feature of spren is that they are different between the cognitive realm and the physical realm. The sapient spren form bonds in part to be able to manifest in the physical realm and even then, only a portion of themselves makes the transfer - they have full bodies in Shadesmar and partial selves show up in the Physical realm. EXCEPT when they become a shardblade they DO become more physical, able to interact with the physical realm in a much greater way than before. This is possible through the Nahel Bond increasing through advanced oaths. We learn from Ishar's experiments that when the sapient sprens are forced over to the physical realm without a bond and as their full selves, they do not last - they die - I imagine that is really painful. They become corpses. Coincidentally, shardblades are also referred to by other spren as corpses. Here I get to the first part of my theory: Shardblades scream because sapient spren die in the physical realm without a bond. Shardblades are continually in the act of dying. They are cognitive entities forced to be physical without the protections of the Nahel Bond. Next, why does the same not occur with Shardplate? We learn at the end of Rhythm of War that Shardplate is made of physical realm spren coming together to make Shardplate. For instance, windspren are very rare in Shadesmar but are relatively plentiful in the Physical realm. They are content in the Physical realm and don't really need to be in the Cognitive realm. Although we have seen creationspren (the likely candidate for Lightweaver Shardplate), for instance, in Shadesmar, my guess is that they too are more common in the Physical Realm. I don't know if this is the case for all lesser spren, or only for the ones deemed "cousins". Therefore, Shardplate, being made of lesser spren that are more common in the Physical realm, are not in pain because their spren are more natural in the physical realm. Physical Spren? This is also why they do not travel to Shadesmar - they are more physical in nature and going to the cognitive realm is less natural for them. Tell me what you think - if there's anything I've missed either for or against this idea. The last unexplored area is Soulcasters that seem to be a sapient spren meditating? to form a soulcaster in the physical realm similar to an Oathgate. Or something.
  20. Inspired by the later chapters in Rhythm of War, this is a tribute to Teft. While I still don't know exactly what I'm doing, I'm imagining members of Bridge 4 standing in front of his statue--having flashbacks. Please enjoy a part of me! https://youtu.be/eDzutoVMT48
  21. I was unsure if this belongs here or in Cosmere, but the topic really is more related to the Stormlight Archive though this post will include speculation based off of Warbreaker, which I believe I've heard said is a type of prologue to the Stormlight Archive. In my re-read of the Stormlight Archive, I got back to the scene in Oathbringer where Gavilar is being soulcast to stone and, with the knowledge of there being a hall of stone Radiants in Urithiru from Rhythm of War, it made me wonder if there was a purpose to the practice - a reason passed down beyond mere legacy. We know from Warbreaker that soldiers in stone can be caused to fight again, made Lifeless through the course of a single breath. This is similarly set-up in the Stormlight Archive under a different name - Thunderclasts. The first part of my speculation is that before the end of the Stormlight Archive, though not necessarily by the next book, we'll see phantom armies play a role again - the equivalent of one breath is relatively easy to find on Roshar thanks to the Highstorm and so with the right information and intent it wouldn't be hard to see a stone Teft (and others) in action again. I wonder if, perhaps, trying to set this up could be where Zahel went during the invasion of Urithiru (we know he was somewhere and that Brandon almost wrote him in, but just couldn't make it work). The 2nd part of my speculation involves Gavilar specifically, though I am by no means asserting this will happen. In Warbreaker, Clod/Arsteel as a lifeless mostly acts only as he is instructed. EXCEPT there is a moment when he protects Vivenna in the slum riot where it seems that a little more of Arsteel pokes through and I've read that Jewels offscreen goes to Yesteel to try to awaken more of Arsteel in Clod. We've seen with characters such as Thaidakar (to use the Stormlight name) that a cognitive shadow can staple itself to the physical realm; it would seem in the example of Clod/Arsteel there is a way to staple or bring back the cognitive to an otherwise Lifeless physical entity. All that to say, during Gavilar's funeral there was a lot of talk about the three realms and eternal wars and it made me wonder if Gavilar might one day come back (or have planned for himself to come back) as a Lifeless and if he (or others) would also have their cognitive self brought back somehow (even easier I'm sure if it's still lingering around like the fused with the thunderclasts). This seems more likely to happen in the back 5 books, but there's some set-up for it already so I thought I would speculate. My apologies if this was a bit rambling - please let me know if I've forgotten anything that could support (or counter) this line of thinking. One issue I already know of it the lack of ichor alcohol, but perhaps there is a workaround here since we (I) know very little about the nature of ichor alcohol. tl;dr - I think the stone radiants and others will later play a role as Lifeless soldiers or equivalent like Thunderclasts, but for good. If Gavilar's cognitive self is still around, perhaps it could come back to his stone statue and reappear that way.
  22. No, it's not about that Certain Someone. This one's about our erstwhile Odium, Rayse, or at least what's left of him. The man was incredibly Invested before his death, to the point that I think even if Nightblood were to shunt every other one of his victims to the Beyond directly (which I am not sure about by any means), he may be a unique case. If his Shadow did stick around and is now bopping around in the Cognitive somewhere, what's he up to? What are the odds of him plotting something? What do y'all think?
  23. So as per usual with me I have been contemplating another order of knights radiant and what qualities their spren look for. This time truthwatchers caught my eye. Now we know the basics from the official description. Truthwatchers are generally quiet introspective and eager to discuss the nature of truth. Yet, from the truthwatchers we have seen so far I cannot recall much active pursuit of said truth. Now renarin being a corrupted truthwatcher could of course play into this. Yet even the regular ones we have seen rarely do much beyond helping children (which is a very kind and wonderful thing to do). One trait thing I think we can look to for further insight may be their herald. Not even going to attempt to spell her name. But her attributes are learned and giving. This I think gives an idea of what truthwatchers may be aligned with. They watch, they listen, and they aid however they can. Might not be as flashy as a skybreaker or windrunner but very important all the same. I think compassion may be a trait mistspren look for along with a shared willingness to see from others' perspectives. As i wrote this i actually found it funny how the edgedancer character (Lift) spent more time seeking answers that we are aware of than the regular truthwatchers (who spent time remembering the forgotten orphans and helping them). Anyway, feel free to comment and discuss below. If yoy disagree I'm happy to chat anyway as I doubt I'm any sort of expert. As always thanks for engaging with the topic.
  24. Let me preface this by saying that I am asking a question related to how the magic works. I don't want to bring up the intensely hot morality debate around this subject. Could Stormlight positively or negatively affect the child in the womb of a pregnant woman? We know that the person's image of their body is important to healing (see the Reshi monarch and Rysn). It makes me wonder how it apply in that situation. Like, could a woman imagining her child as healthy fix a child's a cleft palate? Or could a woman terminate early by healing while not imagining herself pregnant?
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