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  1. So, we were talking about this in the WalDo thread, and we decided to bring it over to another thread. We know, per WoB, that it's possible to give listeners their sentience through Hemalurgic spikes, just like Kandra. Given this, what other weird forms could be made? If seons are relatively equivalent to spren, could a Parshman bond with an Aon Tia and have a Teleportationform? Be given a Divine Breath, and become Glowyform? The possibilities are endless. Thoughts?
  2. For me, one of the best things about Words of Radiance is that we got to know a whole lot about Shallan's powers. I'd like to discuss an aspect of this that's not as showy as transforming a whole ship into water, or creating very realistic illusions to fool Cosmere-aware enemies, or even making perfect drawings from memory. I'm talking about Shallan's ability to "transform" the personalities of people around her. She first does this with Bluth. That one started with a drawing: And it ended with Bluth fighting bandits until he was killed. At around the same time, she does it again with the Alethi deserters led by Vathah, who've been committing acts of banditry as they traveled. This time, Shallan didn't draw them, but merely spoke to them of what they could be: Soon enough, the deserters were off fighting bandits. Now, you'd think that all this had nothing to do with magic, that those people were simply inspired by Shallan's actions. But Pattern thought differently: Then there's this epigraph: We could debate all day as to the real nature of this ability, but instead I would like to simply posit that this ability reflects what I believe the Order of Lightweavers was really about: They were all about changing temperament, whether of the people they fooled/inspired with Lightwoven illusions, or of the Shadesmar Identity beads that they convinced to transform during Soulcasting. It was their specialty to change others' minds, or more importantly, change their hearts. ... So... what has all this got to do with the Essence of Blood? *replaces Cosmere nerd hat with Wikipedia geek glasses* As it turns out, people in the past (starting from as far back as the Ancient Egyptians and Ancient Greeks) believed that blood was a very important thing when it came to understanding behavioral changes in people. Not only is it directly linked to the heart, which was believed to be the seat of all emotion, it was also a central part of humoral theory. According to the ancient theory of humorism, the human body contains four different kinds of "humors", which are bodily fluids (not jokes ) that govern health and temperament: phlegm, yellow bile, black bile, and blood. An imbalance between these humors were said to result in sickness, or at least a change in personality. Each humor is associated with a certain type of temperament: calm/unemotional (for Phlegm), bad tempered (Yellow Bile), melancholic (Black Bile), or passionate (Blood). They were also associated with the four Classical Elements: Water for Phlegm, Fire for Yellow Bile, Earth for Black Bile, and Air for Blood. Here's where it gets a bit more interesting (if you're a Cosmere nerd and a Wikipedia geek): Apparently blood has a special place among the humors. People who believe in humorism believe that since the other three humors travel through the body via the bloodstream, blood must also carry the Elements of Water, Fire, and Earth. So Blood has all four Elements. It has also been suggested that the very origin of humoral theory might have something to do with blood, specifically how blood in a container looks like after it has been left to clot. After a while, the blood starts to separate into four layers: the bottom layer containing platelets (representing "black bile"), then a layer of red blood cells ("blood"), then the white blood cells ("phlegm"), then the blood plasma ("yellow bile"). Even when we look at "real" Science, we can still find links between blood and temperament. While we now know that the "seat of emotion" is actually in the brain, emotions are also influenced by certain endocrine glands, which produce hormones that travel via... you guessed it... the bloodstream. *puts back Cosmere nerd hat* After reading about all these little coincidences, I now believe Brandon used this concept of humorism, associating body fluids with temperament, when he designed the Investitures related to the Essence of Blood. This makes me wonder if Shallan is unconsciously changing the blood chemistry of people she "transforms", or if Jasnah's "eight kinds of blood" is actually just normal human blood with varying amounts of behavior-changing hormones mixed in. As a final note, I'd just like to mention the Parshendi, whose Rhythms are related somewhat to their temperament. I theorize that these Rhythms actually originate from their heart, and are thus Blood-related as well.
  3. Something that caught my attention in Jasnah’s prologue, that I haven’t seen discussed yet, is one of Jasnah’s comments about the Parshendi Jasnah believes there is something, some ruins of importance, that the Parshendi have access to. I think it is safe to assume these are the ruins we see in Eshonai’s interlude, at the center of the Shattered Plains. So, what are these ruins? The obvious answer is that these ruins are Urithiru. But that may not be the only answer. In tWoK Jasnah is quite adamant that Urithiru is not on the Shattered Plains. It is possible that she is incorrect, but I find it unlikely that she would be so certain without reason. Jasnah’s notes refer to Urithiru being “Westward,” and it is hard to get less westward than the Shattered Plains. There has been specualtion that Urithiru is located in Shadesmar. The first WoR chapter provides some support for this, So, for the moment let’s assume that Jasnah is correct in tWoK and the ruins on the Shattered Plains are not Urithiru. What else could they be? At the Seattle signing in October I asked Brandon to indicate on my map in tWoK something that might be of interest to characters in the book, something that had been searched for. Above the Shattered Plains he wrote “Great Magic unleashed here.” I would guess that this unleashed magic is what caused the plains to shatter. But what was this event? 1. Perhaps some kind of physical manifestation of Honor being splintered. This would release the splinters, and could be the unleashed magic. 2. Magic on Roshar is very spren-dependent. And as Jasnah discusses in the first WoR chapter: Perhaps the Shattered Plains is a location where this “leakage” occurs… or perhaps it was a dam that burst. 3. If Urithiru was in Shadesmar, it may have had some physical correlate. We don’t yet know how relative location and distance works in Shadesmar, or how cities created in Shadesmar might manifest in the physical realm. Maybe Urithiru, and its assumed destruction, created some echo of ruins in the physical realm. I’m just throwing out a couple ideas, but I’d love to hear more. If there’s one thing I’ve learned from lurking around these forums it’s that 17sharders are boundlessly clever.
  4. The Listeners seem to believe that the spren chose humans instead of Listeners as surgebinders because the Listeners were in some way inadequate. Following, respectively, are the Listener Song of Spren, 9th Stanza (epigraph to WoR Chapter 32) and the Listener Song of Secrets, 40th Stanza (epigraph to WoR Chapter 28): "The spren betrayed us, it’s often felt. Our minds are too close to their realm That gives us our forms, but more is then Demanded by the smartest spren, We can’t provide what the humans lend, Though broth are we, their meat is men." "The betrayal of spren has brought us here. They gave their Surges to human heirs, But not to those who know them most dear, before us. ’Tis no surprise we turned away Unto the gods we spent our days And to become their molding clay, they changed us." These passages seem to get backwards the relationship between cognitive beings (humans and Listeners), on the one hand, and spren. New types of spren come into existence when cognitive beings on Roshar personify something they have created or observed. Honor created surgebinding when he gave the Honorblades to the human Heralds. Sometime later, after the concept of human surgebinding had become personified in Shadesmar, spren created other human surgebinders through the Nahel bond. Spren did not “choose” humans to be surgebinders. There were simply no spren that personified a Listener surgebinding experience. That doesn’t mean it can’t be done. WoB states Listener surgebinding is possible. It just hasn’t been done. Yet…
  5. At this point, I'd like to put some increased evidence forward for the idea that the Parshendi are the true inhabitents of Roshar, who initally went to war against humanity for reasons that were somewhat understandable. Perhaps they were even created by Adonalsium when it was on Roshar, but that is irreleveant. Firstly, I'd like to point out that the Parshendi are unable to bond with the Nahel spren. I interpret this to mean that the Parshendi were unable to bond with the Nahel spren because they were closer to the Cognitive Realm than other peoples. This allowed them their forms, but they were not well-rooted enough in the Physical realm to form Nahel bonds with the most intelligent spren. However, then for whatever reason, human refugees arrived, I believe fleeing an attack by Odium onto their home planet of Braize, in the company of Honor and Cultivation. And they could bond with the Nahel spren just fine. However, they also were doing what humans do and conquering the Parshendi land with the help of these powers, and powerful spren such as the Stormfather, who they called traitor. They beat the Parshendi and drove them back into Braize, which was now a hellish nightmare, thanks to Odium. They called this place Damnation. I believe some memory of this conquest can be seen in this Death Rattle. The Parshendi, who had been around for much longer, felt betrayed by the spren, who gave humans some fantasitc abilities. How could the Parshendi hope to match them? This is echoed here, with disturbing implications. At this point, I believe Odium saw what had happened happening, and realized that he had had a stroke of good fortune. His army was here. They were angry, they wanted their homes back. So, he and the Unmade made an accord with them. They would give them new forms, forms of power, in exchange for destroying humanity. The Parshendi agreed, without realizing the trick. Once they took on these forms and bonded with Odium's voidspren, they were his Voidbringers, scourge of Roshar. This is shown here. The Parshendi songs even claim that the gods gave them powers similar to the human Surges. Another quote again mentions that it was crafted by the Unmade. This also explains something else. The Last Legion may not have been able to remember a time when they were free to chose their own form, but it used to be so, before humanity arrived. So although time has dulled the specifics, the ideas of the forms themselves remain. There is one quote that seems important that I cannot make sense of, though. Ideas on what this means are welcome. All in all, I think this is a pretty solid interpretation of early Rosharan history and the conflict between the humans and the Voidbringers. Obviously some of the details may be wrong, but I think the outlines are on the right track.
  6. It seems to me that Gavilar is the link between all the groups and organisations across Roshar. He possessed a certain knowledge which he ironically shared with everyone but his own family which now has kind of formed the Knight Radiants. Starting with the followers of Diagram, we see that Taravangian in his moment of reflection after he becomes the king of Jah Keved thinking about how he had followed Gavilar’s instructions to unify the world for survival and he also knew that Gavilar had visions from Honor which foretold of the Everstorm. Also, Amaram when he sneaks in to inspect Taln and steal the shardblade wonders that the heralds are real and murmurs “Gavilar, we have done it. We have finally done it” which leads me to think that Amaram and Sons of Honor’s motivations are also linked to Gavilar. Though I don’t know what exactly Gavilar has shared with them, probably something about the return of the Heralds and facing the Desolations. This could be something similar to what the Envisagers wanted maybe, where they tried to bring back Knight Radiants the Restares are trying to get back the Heralds, I mean they want the dominance of the Church and they would want their Gods back to help them survive. The Parshendi of course knew what Gavilar was planning. On the shattered plains when Adolin was facing Eshonai in his father’s shardplate, she says that Gavilar was trying to bring their gods back and that would have led to complete destruction. As their gods had once forced the forms upon them and the only way they could have freedom was by devolving to the dullform. (this makes me think that the Parshmen and Parshedi are of Odium). Even the Ghostbloods, before dying Gavilar thought Szeth was sent by Thaidakar, the man who leads the Ghostblood. And the Heralds were also involved as Nalan was there at the treaty signing party and they were discussing how their conditions are getting worse specifically mentioning Ash (shalash). Also, Nalan reveals to Lift that what she is must be stopped as it would return desolation so maybe they were there to stop Gavilar as he wanted to refound the Knight Radiants. So, it seems to me like every road leads to Gavilar. Something is happening that all these secret societies know and Gavilar was the trigger that started the chain of events by discovering the secret that led to his assassination by the Parshendi bringing the fate of Roshar together. And now everyone is either following or trying to stop Gavilar’s work by attempting to unify mankind or trying to stop the desolation.
  7. Parshendi: When a parshman binds with a spren, his/her form changes, determined by the type of spren they bind to (becoming Parshendi). Also, if the system on Roshar is consistent for native life (assuming Parshendi are native), pupation of native animals during highstorms could be similar to Parshendi form changes. The pupating animal may attract different or additional spren during highstorms, the chrysalis being the protection from the storm itself. Returned: A newly deceased person receives a small portion of Endowment (ie a large "breath"), and their forms change to an "ideal" form (becoming Returned). These are different magic systems, but they appear to behave similarly. Maybe if Endowment were splintered, there would be an entity (like spren, seons, etc) that would attach to newly deceased folks who attracted them, to become Returned... Taking this further, one could consider awakened objects as being "spren-like". If spren are ideas given investiture, commands given form (breath into object) could be looked at similarly. (Idea stems from thinking of how Nightblood and Spren-blade could be similar). This may have been discussed before. My search skills may be poor.
  8. Spoilered for length. TL;DR version is that Dalinars biases are causing him to interpret the visions incorrectly, and this is making Bad Things happen. Also Alodin killing Sadeas was a really good idea, And Kaladins Wangst could have been avoided if he had gone in a slightly different direction. Here is an excerpt...
  9. So, this is my first "official" theory, and to be honest, it's not completely formed yet. I'll try to add/update as it solidifies in my brain and as I find supportive quotes. At this point, it's more of a gut feeling, but I could be WAAYYY off LOL. In a nutshell, I believe one of two things. Either a) that each/all of the KR will end up ultimately bonding 2 spren. The next question would seem to be, which ones? And, how would they do it? Or b ) that KR will be paired and bonded in some way. If we take option a, it may be that in order to bond a second spren, the specialized skills of the Bondsmiths may be needed. Not sure what that would be or how it would work yet, but it could be an additional meaning to the "unite them" message that Dalinar is motivated by. We know there is conflict among the KR, and also the spren. We don't know yet exactly what the tension is between them, but we can deduce (and it's been mentioned by others here) that it's because of conflicting ideals such as with Syl and Pattern. In this theory, the KR would quite literally bond two different spren. With option b, which I'm tending to like much better than a, the Bondsmiths would be able to create a link between two Radiants, by creating some sort of bond between their spren. I don't know if it would cause the spren to quite literally "merge" in some way, or if it would be more along the lines of an oath. I tend to think oath. I also feel like the Parshendi are involved somehow since they can bond with spren as well, but I haven't quite figured out how. Have to chew on that a bit more I suppose.
  10. I assume that Parshmen will be turned to Voidbringers by the Everstorm (Stormfather says so also). I further assume that Parshendi have a choice (Rlain and escapees). I assume that Parshmen can take on other Parshendi forms: dullform, mateform, warrior, ... Kaladin is going back to Hearthstone. Should Kaladin take Rlain somewhere to start converting Parshmen to Parshendi. Obviously, anybody who doubts that their slaves will become Voidbringers will not want them to become Parshendi. Politics and slave ownership aside, the humans are better off with allied or neutral Parshendi than Voidbringers, so they should be converting all the Parshmen they can to Parshendi. I assume that Parshendi would need to be emancipated, but that is a separate issue. I can't see anybody agreeing to free or change their slaves until they see the danger, but by then it will be too late. Should Kaladin and Rlain just do it to people's slaves because it's the right thing? Does this make sense or have I lost it?
  11. Here are all of the readings from Words of Radiance that have been released so far. This list is going to be updated when more come out. Also, the spelling of any new names are merely approximations, not intended to be completely accurate. Jasnah Prologue Kaladin - Chapter 2 Dalinar's Vision Shallan Flashback 1 - Red Carpet, Once White Eshonai Interlude Rysn's Interlude Ym Interlude Lift Interlude Taravangian Interlude Enjoy!
  12. ... or something approaching a Parshendi. The Science Museum in South Kensington, UK, offers "Cockroach Tours:" http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/cockroachtour Wearing a wonderful artist-designed carapace, you follow the Head Cockroach through the museum, looking at things from a truly unique point of view. Too fun!
  13. It strikes me that a lot of the epigraphs now make a lot more sense now that we can predict that the Everstorm is due to the Parshendi. They deserve a re-look with everything we've learned from the WoR sample chapters. Here's the ones that I think make more sense: “I’m cold. Mother, I’m cold. Mother? Why can I still hear the rain? Will it stop?” Collected on Vevishes, 1172, 32 seconds pre-death. Subject was a lighteyed female child, approximately six years old. It seems likely that the Everstorm is actually a highstorm summoned and controlled by the Parshendi, here. It keeps raining and storming, and chills everything down. “Light grows so distant. The storm never stops. I am broken, and all around me have died. I weep for the end of all things. He has won. Oh, he has beaten us.” Dated Palahakev, 1173, 16 seconds pre-death. Subject: a Thaylen sailor. Here, we see that the Everstorm is still going. Apparently it darkens the sky, too - there's no light. A lot of people are going to die, I think. Perhaps this is from the perspective of Kaladin? Dalinar? The person talking seems to know it is Odium that has 'won'. “In the storm I awaken, falling, spinning, grieving.” Dated Kakanev, 1173, 13 seconds pre-death. Subject was a city guardsman. The storm starts and he 'awakens'? It could be Kaladin having a highstorm vision. “That chanting, that singing, those rasping voices.” Kaktach 1173, 16 seconds pre-death. A middle-aged potter. Reported seeing strange dreams during highstorms during the last two years. “The day was ours, but they took it,” the boy cried. “Stormfather! You cannot have it. The day is ours. They come, rasping, and the lights fail. Oh, Stormfather!” Here is where things get juicy. I predict that Dalinar leads the Alethi to fight the Parshendi in a final climatic battle, and they seem to be winning the battle... and then the storm comes as all the Parshendi in stormform summon it. It seems that the Parshendi, when in stormform, rasp as they sing. “All is withdrawn for me. I stand against the one who saved my life. I protect the one who killed my promises. I raise my hand. The storm responds.” Tanatanev 1173, 18 seconds pre-death. A darkeyed mother of four in her sixty-second year. A lot of people die here... and Kaladin, in the midst of the destruction of the Everstorm, finds himself saving Sadeas? In any case, it seems likely that Kaladin, as a Windrunner, could have power over the storm and could potentially save the day here by stopping the storm. It's an unending highstorm, so it's not like he won't have enough Stormlight. “They named it the Final Desolation, but they lied. Our gods lied. Oh, how they lied. The Everstorm comes. I hear its whispers, see its stormwall, know its heart.” Tanatanes 1173, 8 seconds pre-death. An Azish itinerant worker. Sample of particular note. Nothing special here, but it does note the 'whispers', which may be connecting to the 'rasping'. Stormform Parshendi are probably creepy as all heck. Anyone feel like offering different interpretations?
  14. Ok, so while this is by no means unanimous, many people agree that the Parshendi are probbaly not the Voidbringers, or at least not without being inslaved/influenced some way by Odium. I had previously posted about who the Parshendi are in http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/6053-theory-dawnsingers-parshendi/ So while it seems at the end of WoK that the Parshendi are the Voidbringers, it is just too convenient, not to mention that it would be giving away a pretty big plot point awfully early. That said, while there are some theories floating around on who the Voidbringers are, I wanted to start a thread with a comprehensive listing of likely suspects. Please post or leave a link to any good theories below and who knows, one of them might be right! Common theories I have seen around the forums so far on the identity of the Voidbringers: - Spren that either belong to Odium or are controlled by him - The Parshendi
  15. This is the first thread I’ve started and I haven’t read every other thread so I pre-apologize if any of this has been discussed or disproven elsewhere. I typed this up and it was pretty long so I'm using spoilers to hide my explanations for some points to give you the option of the short or long version. 1. Shardblades mimick Honor Blades, and Shardplate mimicks Dawnshards. 2. Cultivation's name is Dawn or some variation thereof. 3. The Parshendi call themselves listeners, they listen to a lot of songs it would make sense if they were "listening" to Dawnsingers. 4. Parshendi are of Cultivation, Jasnah is wrong about the voidbringers. 5. The WOK endpage with the non-KR surgebinding chart in my opinion is a Formbinding chart. Cultivation is a logical guess for the woman around the edges (there is a thread on this but I don’t have the link.) A. The following quote from WOK really stood out to me on my re-read from the chapter where bridge four first goes in the chasms and Kaldin is looking at a Parshendi knife B. The Glyphs for KR orders are like hilts to the Honorblades. I think that the Glyphs that correspond to orders on the second chart look like they could be made into stylized decorations for helms on shardplate. C. This is my poor drawing example, to try and visualize what I mean for A and B above using examples of the chart's glyphs to show a shardplate figure with wings and they glyphs as part of a helm. D. I apologize for my poor sourcing I really need to make a list but I read in another thread that Brandon said one of the ways of accessing the magic system has a connection to Fabrials. Fabrials work by trapping spren inside a mechanical device, Listeners work by trapping spren inside a living organism… connection made. Wrapping it up, I promise, so how does this all connect the Dawnsingers/shards to the Parshendi/Listeners. My current theory is that the Dawnshards where a mechanism by which the Parshendi/Listeners could be forced into forms and controlled. So someone wearing/possessing a dawnshard direct the movements/control all the Listeners for example in stormform, most likely using a song. This would mean Listeners weren't free and I could understand that if the Dawnsingers or Dawnshards came back there would be no more freedom for the Parshendi/Listeners. In one of Dalinar’s visions, Honor mentions not doing well without the Dawnshards. If Gavilar grabbed onto this idea rather than the idea of refounding the knights radiant he might have found a dawnshard (small mysterious bead/rock anyone). Gavilar tells the Parshendi his intention to bring back Dawnshards and Dawnsingers. They understand the import and decide to assasinate him as bringing back the Dawnsingers would mean a loss of freedom. We know that Plate can be regrown, so what if the bead/rock Gavilar gave Szeth is the seed of a Dawnshard that would become a magnificent set of Plate if fed enough stormlight? A lot of this is probably wrong but I’d love to hear thoughts form others.
  16. This is my first post, so I'm going to have to ask you to stick with me here. Honor, aka the Almighty, as we all know, is dead, splintered by Odium. My first thought was 'Oh, then the Spren must be his splinters.' WRONG. The spren have been around during the time of the Almighty, as shown by one point in the book (possibly a Words of Radiance spoiler) This says that Surgebinders existed during the time the Almighty was alive, and thus so did the spren (Nahel Bond). However, that does not mean the Spren are not -of- the Allmighty. I believe that all spren are a form of the Almighty's investiture in the world, as they seem to have all -bonded- with specific emotions/elements/abilities. WoR spoiler Now, second part of this theory. If the spren are all from Honor, what does that leave Cultivation? Well, that leaves him with Shinovar. Think about it. Unlike what Ruin and Preservation did, fighting for power, Honor and Cultivation decided to split up the land, they made a deal of sorts. Honor would get the land and shape it any way he wanted so long as it didn't mess with Cultivation's area. Thus the mountains around Shinovar so that Cultivation's land wasn't effected by the Highstorms. This would explain many things. First of all, it explains the lack of spren in Shinovar, since Honor has no sway there. Second, it would explain why the Shinese revere farmers and hate warriors, since warriors have to do with Honor, and farming has to do with Cultivation. Thirdly, it might explain the Shinese reverence of rock. The mountains that separate Shinovar from the rest of Roshar could be a holy symbol of their god's protection. Small side theory, I think Cultivation might actually be a man, since at the end of WoK, when Taravangian is talking to Szeth, he says, "Sometimes I wonder if the Lifebrother himself sent you to me." I know the Lifebrother is a nickname for one of the Heralds, and the Herald might have been an Edgedancer, which would explain Lifebrother, you know, growing plants and healing people could have to do with Life, but that is just a side theory. (thanks for the comments. I believe the Lifebrother might still be a Herald, though not Cultivation, and I do feel slightly stupid for posting this part.) WoR spoiler WoR spoiler Szeth's people, under the command of Cultivation, who I believe not only is still alive, but occasionally communicates with his/her people, gave Szeth a Shardblade as mentioned in the before quoted conversation with Taravangian. Not only does this mean Kaladin has the potential to be an immensely more powerful Windrunner but also gives an implication that the Nightwatcher is Cultivation. I say this because perhaps Szeth wished for the powers of a Radiant, and so got Windrunner powers, but in return for the great cost of being eternally enslaved, doomed to kill, and yet seemingly absolved of all sins he is forced to commit, for this is the price their god made him commit. Any thoughts?
  17. I have just finished listening to tWoK audio book and I noticed something. When Kaladin first uses the Parshendi bones to protect bridge four, the Parshendi become enraged. When they are forced to retreat by Sadeas' cavalry, they make a strange gesture to Kaladin: They cup a hand to their ear and then point at Kaladin (I do not have the book with me to dig out the quote but will find it later). This gesture could be just a general expression of anger or promise of retribution (like running a finger across your throat in the real world) but maybe it is something more... Maybe the reason for the reverence of their dead comes from the fact that Listeners (Parshendi / Parshmen) can still hear their dead (maybe from the spiritual / cognitive realm). Therefore the strange gesture means "We can hear you" (similar to the real world threat "we know where you live") or something like that. Now I know, I know... I am extrapolating massively from a single line of the book and a single gesture of the Parshendi made in anger. Flimsy does not even begin to cover it Any opinions from the assembled?
  18. I heard someone mention that the magic on Roshar was connected to Wavelengths. This makes sense, since in Warbreaker, Awakeners get perfect pitch and perfect color recognition. Both sound and sight work primarily because of wavelengths. Now, the Parshendi too, seem to be cognitively connected to each other with their strange inter-body musical matching, since they are all able to simultaneously hear the exact same song and speak to the tune of these songs. Not sure where exactly I'm going with this, but I feel like it is important. If they can already do this cognition connection, what will happen when they utilize stormform, which allows them to create and control the Highstorms? Will the theorized cognitive distorting properties of the Highstorms enhance this even more, teach them new songs, and lead the rapid learning of new forms?
  19. In Chapter 11 of Words of Radiance, Eshonai refers to the Parshendi people as listeners. And this gets me thinking. Not only are the Parshendi able to see how the spren appear, zipping at lightning speeds from the Origin, but they can also hear music, playing at the same speeds. This brings to mind Odium. I'm not sure where I heard this, but one post I saw related Odium as a sort of Musical Shard. This might make sense, since he is also connected to the colors black and red, both of which are noticeable on Parshendi. At one point, Eshonai mentions that she is trapped in the Plains, away from the Parshendi gods. Gods being plural. This begs the questions; Are the Parshendi actually creations of Odium? And if so, do they know it? Or do they worship something else they found on Roshar, maybe some other powerful spren being, since they can see spren more, and so might worship them more? Or perhaps this spren-vision they have is similar to what Rock experiences? One quote I believe incredibly important is "Instead, she and the others had ordered the murder of the Alethi king in a desperate gambit to stop the listener gods from returning." The listener gods? This brings up an enormous amount of questions. The Parshendi are the listeners... and they have their gods... so are the listener's gods different than the listener gods? Perhaps the listener gods are Honor and Cultivation, so perhaps both of them are splintered? Maybe they are called the listener gods because the Shards are in a sort of mental states, capable of entering minds as shown with Wax and Sazed/Harmony, and so the Parshendi, servants of Odium, prefer them dead, so they cannot mess with the whole hive mind mental music thing going on? I really don't know, since there is so much speculation here, but opinions would be appreciated.
  20. Read the sample chapters that came out today and I have a prediction. Shallen will be kidnapped or at least go witht he Parshendi. She will be the means that the Artform will be unlocked I'm guessing. The question is what will it do for them? Allow them to think clearer or be more creative? Shallan though will be key in it though.
  21. Hi All. While reading the forums here an idea came to me. If this has been discussed before then my apologies. Anyway. What if the Parshendi forms that were mentioned in the Eshonai interlude, are actually related to Voidbinding? And what if the Voidbringers are actually type of Spren related/in-service to odium? Here's some of my thinking behind this: - We know from WoB that the Parshendi need to stay out in a Highstorm in order to change forms, and the Parshendi article on the Coppermind wiki says that this involves bonding with Spren. ( http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/3238-brandon-signing-110612/ ) - From what Szeth says in the prelude of tWoK, we can assume that the Voidbringers are able to use Stormlight. - In tWoK Jasnah says she believes that the Parshendi are the Voidbringers based on the research she has done. -However, In the Eshonai interlude there is this quote in reference to Gavilar's assassination "she and the others had ordered the murder of their king in a desperate gambit to stop the Parshendi gods from returning. Well, that hadn’t worked out." So here's my theory. The Voidbringers are in fact Spren allied/in-service to Odium. Voidbinding is gained by bonding with these Spren, similar to Surgebinding. This would explain how the Parshendi change forms, and why they need a Highstorm/Stormlight to do so. What Jasnah uncovered in her research may have been referencing a particular form the Parshendi are able to take. Stormform? Voidform? This could also explain why the Parshendi want to prevent the return of their gods, as an effort to prevent themselves becoming the Voidbringers and bringing about the next desolation. XXX---Mistborn Spoilers---XXX Sorry this post was so long/hard to follow. Thank you for reading. -Postmaster Lipwig Edit: Thanks for the catch hoser
  22. Hi all. This is my first post on the forum. I just read the Eshonai interlude from Words of Radiance. This sentence in particular stood out to me. "she and the others had ordered the murder of their king in a desperate gambit to stop the Parshendi gods from returning. Well, that hadn’t worked out." That got me wondering: who are the Parshendi gods, why would they want to keep them from returning, and why would killing Gavilar have anything to do with preventing their return? I have a theory that might sound a little ridiculous, but it makes some sense. I think that the Parshendi might have worshipped the Radiants. Here's why. First, if my understanding is correct, Gavilar was attempting to restore the Radiants. I'm not sure where I heard this, but it was somewhere on this forum, and it makes sense, though I could be wrong. It would make sense if the Radiants were the Parshendi gods for them to try to kill Gavilar to prevent their return. Furthermore, the way the Parshendi reacted to Kaladin in the final battle when he began to glow is further evidence that the Parshendi may have feared and worshipped them. I could be completely wrong on this, but it makes sense to me.
  23. One thing has been really bugging me about the Parshendi/voidbringers connection. The Parshendi seem to have been honorable and upstanding in everything we see of them. I can't really post this in the Stormlight section since it contains information from the WoR readings. (At least I think I am supposed to avoid posting WoR stuff down there.) When they sent Szeth, they required him to wear white so that his target would see him coming. They entered into the peace treaty in good faith, only sending Szeth when they learned of new information. They publicly owned up to their own assassination. When they fight on the plains, they only start bringing two armies to the fight after the Alethi start bringing two armies. I have seen suggestions that they did this because they didn't want to provoke the Alethi in to combining forces, but it seems to me that they have been fighting fair fights. Kaladins observations of their combat techniques and how they avoid targeting weak and injured Alethi. Compared to the humans, the Parshendi just don't seem to be tools of Odium at all. On top of that, spren are mostly Honor, Cultivation, or a mixture of the two. Apparently there may also be Adonalsium spren (I haven't seen the source for this.) The Parshendi forms are based on Spren, and one of the forms is a mating form. So, we have a race that seems to be consistently honorable in their behavior with a lifecycle that is dependent on spren that come from either Honor or Cultivation (or maybe Adonalsium). My big question is, where did the Parshendi come from, and how are they related to the voidbringers? Did Honor and Cultivation make them, and then Odium corrupts them? Maybe voidbringers are not related to Odium at all, maybe that is a mistake that built up through history? Are the Parshendi the natural forms, and maybe Odium stripped the spren to leave the Parshmen to be taken over? Personally, I think Jasnah is wrong. Mostly based on the behavior of the Parshendi in the WoK, and a feeling that if the Parsh are the voidbringers it seems too similar to the Kandra in Mistborn.
  24. So on a recent reread of WoK's a small part stood out to me. So we know from the Eshonai interlude that the Parshendi are indeed using Gemhearts for food, as well as farming Rockbuds. So the Parshendi need the gemhearts to eat, this particularly strikes me as odd. The war on the Shattered plains has been going for six years at this point. In the book it states that the larger the gem the less likely it was to shatter when used for Soulcasting; the enormous gemhearts are described by Dalinar as offering near limitless potential. If the breaking of gems were the result of trying to Soulcast overly large items, and could be prevented by being reserved in what you attempt to Soulcast, then at this point the Parshendi would have six years of gemhearts and essentially unlimited stormlight. Therefore lets assume the breaking of a gem is a foregone conclusion, something that occurs randomly or as a result of cumulative damage from use. A single gemheart is still enough for a highprince to pay and feed his troops for months and since the primary value for gems (outside being an unforgeable currency) is Soulcasting it seems unlikely that a gemheart would sell for more than what the buyer could get back through Soulcasting. Sadeas and Dalinar each committed over 7000 troops to the battle at the Tower, since this was just what they could muster at short notice it stands to reason each has at least 10000 troops total. If we assume that Sadeas upper estimate of 30000 Parshendi troops is accurate and given that not many Parshendi are spared warform then that leaves us with about 40000 mouths to feed. This means the Parshendi would only need around two or three gemhearts each month in order to feed their entire population. Towards the end of the book (ch59) Teft makes the comment that "with Sadeas and Kholin working together, runs happen nearly every day." With 5 days to a Roshar week and 10 weeks to a month, thats 50 days overall, if a run happens only every second day that is still 25 gemhearts a month. In summary 1 Gemheart = At least 2 Months of food and wages for a single army 1 Army = 10000+Troops Parshendi = 4 Armies worth (30000 Troops plus unknown but small number of Civilians) Gemhearts/month the Parshendi need = 2 - 3 Total Gemhearts/month = >25 (Almost one a day * 50 Days to a Roshar Month From this the Parshendi would only need to win less than 1/8th of the possible gemhearts each month. Yet Eshonai's interlude makes it seem they need each gemheart to continue to eat. We know that Great Shells do indeed pupate past the Tower and that these all go the the Parshendi, as they can get them out before the Alethi arrive (ch65). Yet the Parshendi never seem to hold back, they arrive first to the majority of platforms and still assault the Alethi when they arrive second. While this makes sense in terms of denying the Alethi armies resources, you would expect an army in the Parshendi's situation to be more reserved in their use of troops and it still fails to explain Eshonai's comment on needing the gemhearts to eat. Possible Explanations: 1. Gemhearts sell for more than they Soulcast. If gemhearts are worth more when broken down into currency (unlikely) or when made into fabrials (possible) then the whole argument falls apart. 2. The Parshendi lose 90% of the battles they fight with the Alethi. Hmm yeah no, I think we can just keep moving. 3. The Parshendi number far greater than the Alethi's estimates. This seems a likely solution, we know they Alethi are surprised, when the Parshendi start to bring multiple forces to the field. By using smaller armies that are more closely matched to an individual highprince's army, the Parshendi have been trying to avoid pressuring the highprinces into working together. 4. The Parshendi are Soulcasting from Air. While checking to see if this had been mentioned before I came across a post claiming Air was harder to Soulcast than other substances. The Alethi can probably quarry nearby stone or even dirt to make their food; living in the middle of the Shattered Plains Soulcasting the dirt would reduce the Parshendi's living area. If Air is indeed harder to Soulcast, and the Parshendi are Soulcasting from it, this could be reducing their gems efficiency. 5. The Parshendi are selling their gemhearts. They don't actually have Soulcasters but are instead trading away the gemhearts to someone beyond the Shattered Plains. I don't think this is actually probable for a number of reasons but its still my favorite theory. 6. They need the gemhearts for something else as well as food.
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