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So now we have confirmation that humans came to Roshar from somewhere else. People have theorized before that humanity might have come to Roshar from Ashyn, and I believe more than ever that this is the case. Firstly....from what little we know of Ashyn via WoBs and his readings from it, that world suffered some form of cataclysm in the past, stemming from the disease based magic people used there. However, just because humans on Roshar arrived there after a great cataclysm on their original world, that doesn't mean that ALL the humans from their original world left it. Some might have remained behind, and that, I posit, are the people in the scattered cities that make up the remnant of civilization on Ashyn. Secondly, we know that humans, as the original Voidbringers, were responsible for the destruction of their original world and the Recreance and Nale's later actions resulted from a fear that Surgebinders, unchecked, would do the same to Roshar. However, this does not inherently mean that Surgebinding was responsible for the destruction of the first world. Indeed, we have this line from Chapter 113: The way this is phrased makes me feel that Honor was not saying that Surgebinders would destroy their world again, but rather that Surgebinders would do to Roshar what the humans of the Tranquiline Halls did to their world with the magic system of that world. We know that magic systems are born of the interaction between a Shard's Investiture and the planet they're on, and while they have some control over how their magic system works or is shaped, there are some things they can't control. Due to the greater presence of Adonalsium's Investiture on Roshar in the form of spren, Honor and Cultivation, upon arriving and Investing in Roshar, found spren the channel through which their Investiture and magic was shaped. But on their previous planet, whether that was Ashyn or somewhere else, their Investiture might have resulted in a very different magic system (or more than one). We know that the magic on Ashyn takes the form of diseases (or more accurately) bacteria, that when infecting a human host also grants that human some form of magic ability for as long as they remain infected. Some of these abilities are innocuous, some moderately useful, and others catastrophically destructive. However all of them, regardless of the end result of the ability, play into the same underlying nature: gain comes at cost. Power paired with weakness. And where else have we seen such an underlying nature? With the Nightwatcher's boons and curses, rumored to be associated with both Cultivation and the Old Magic. Petitioners seek out the Nightwatcher to ask a boon, a favor, something that can be used to better themselves or their situation or act as some form of power or ability....but such a thing comes at a cost, as they are stricken with a curse as well, something that takes something from them or impairs them in some way. Not unlike a disease. In fact, consider that the boons and curses bestowed by the Nightwatcher all seem to be neurological in some way, from what we've seen so far...and bacteria and diseases can certainly affect neurology. On Ashyn, it's not just that diseases grant magic, from what little we've seen of it in Brandon's readings. From what we've seen, the civilization on Ashyn actively CULTIVATES these diseases, employing people as human incubators to keep certain strains of bacteria around and viable should they ever have need of the ability bestowed by that disease. My theory is that the disease magic of Ashyn was Cultivation's original magic system, the form her Investiture took when interacting with Ashyn, and some Splinter of her still remains behind on Ashyn even if no Perpendicularity does, and fuels what's left of Ashyn's magic. When she moved to Roshar with the humans who fled from it, her Investiture took a new form, as did Honor's, and created a new magic, Surgebinding. However, perhaps some remnants of her original magic came with her and is evident in the Nightwatcher, or perhaps some magic practitioners from Ashyn carried some lingering strains with them when they came....and this is the Old Magic, echoes or pieces of Cultivation's first magic system, which exists separate from Surgebinding but can still manipulate biology (and neurology) in some small ways, even stranded from Ashyn, the planet that birthed this magic via its interaction with Cultivation's Investiture. While the epigraphs in Oathbreaker seem to imply at least one Shard (most likely Autonomy) claims "many lands" and as such, possibly is Invested in multiple worlds and magic systems, we have no real idea yet of what that might mean, or how different magic systems born of a Shard's Investiture might look given the key role a Shardworld plays in shaping these magic systems. My theory is that it's less important to look at the trappings of various magic systems, the mechanisms or the fuel sources, and look at the Intent underneath for any commonalities. If I'm correct, and Ashyn's disease magic is born of Cultivation, same as the Nightwatcher's boons and curses, and half of Surgebinding, the unifying commonality in all of Cultivation's magic is that to gain something, you must give something. That reward comes at cost. Even at its most base definition, cultivation by its nature is progress resulting from labor, effort and time. Nothing is cultivated for free, or even cheaply. The more you put into trying to cultivate something, the greater your gains. By extrapolating this union between Intent and magic, the greater the power resulting from a disease on Ashyn, the more deadly the disease or more horrific or taxing the symptoms are likely to be. The greater the boon, or gift, or request made of the Nightwatcher, the more debilitating or impairing the curse granted alongside it. And with Surgebinding, the greater the skill and power wielded by a Surgebinder, the more effort, honor, sacrifice the Surgebinder has to put into Cultivating their bond with a spren. The most powerful abilities are unlocked only at the recitation and understanding of the highest Ideals, which as we've seen, do not come cheaply to Surgebinders. To wield Surgebinding at its most powerful levels, a Knight Radiant must all but give him or herself fully over to the bond with their spren and their service to certain ideals. To gain you must give. The more you give, the more you gain. Something too that I've noted, is that Cultivation's magic (via this interpretation) is not aimed at being most beneficial to an individual, but rather to a civilization or society as a whole. With the disease magic on Ashyn, the civilization we saw is structured around employing people as incubators to specific diseases not for the benefit of the individual who gets that disease, but rather if the greater populace has need of that ability. We didn't see people running around infecting themselves to have abilities, but rather society doling out diseases as befitted the needs of society. Similarly, on Roshar, the Cultivation of Honor that fuels Surgebinding is not in service to the individual Surgebinder, but rather advocates by its very nature for a Surgebinder to become a champion of society, of the greater good, the overall populace. Power granted in largest doses not to the individual who seeks it for himself, but doled out instead to the individual who seeks to use it for Honor, for Justice, for the good of all. All of this matches the Intent of Cultivation, which is a term generally used on a large macro scale, rather than a micro. You can cultivate things for and of yourself, but for the most part, cultivation is done on a society wide level. According to this interpretation of magic and Investiture, had Ruin Invested on planets besides Scadrial, other magic systems of his might not have matched hemalurgy in that it required spiking various points in a spiritweb, or using metal, or even in stealing attributes. But its likely that all magic systems fueled by his Investiture would have the underlying commonality that they feed entropy. They Ruin, they enhance decay or degradation, they follow a law of diminishing returns. Were Endowment to Invest on other worlds and fuel more magic systems, they would all likely involve a gift, as in Breath, as a catalyst, with the act of gifting or endowing being crucial to the advancement of magic. And so on. Which brings us to Honor, and the Dawnshards. From what little we know of the Dawnshards, they have the power to bind any creature, voidish or mortal. By this theory, if Honor were to fuel more than one magic system, the underlying commonality due to his Intent is that his magic is always a thing of binding. On Roshar, with Investiture resulting in honorspren, that magic became Surgebinding, creating bonds between humans and ideas-made-flesh, with this bond being what allowed for the governing of natural forces such as gravity and friction. On Ashyn, where there were no spren, the magic that resulted might have looked very different....but still involved the binding of things. The only part of this theory I'm uncertain about is whether all Shard's Investiture, as influenced by a Shardworld, MUST take the same form - or if a Shardworld could interact with two different Shards in two different ways. This is true of everything we've seen so far where two or more Shards Invest in the same Shardworld, with spren on Roshar, metals on Scadrial, geographic identities and shapes on Sel. But just because it's all we've seen so far, doesn't mean that its automatically true for all Shards and all Shardworlds, and that there aren't exceptions or loopholes. I believe that Honor was previously Invested on Ashyn, along with Cultivation, but while her Investiture manifested via bacteria and resulted in disease magic....I believe that Honor's previous Investiture on Ashyn took the form of the Dawnshards or rather that whatever it is they truly are, they're the remnants of Honor's magic that were brought to Roshar when he and the humans came, just as the Old Magic is the echo of Cultivation's previous disease magic. Whether there is some link between the Dawnshards and disease magic, or that Honor interacted with the disease magic in Ashyn that I'm not thinking of because we have so very little information there with which to speculate - these are entirely possible. Or, alternatively, the Dawnshards represent a wholly different magic system that was fueled solely by Honor's Investiture while the disease magic was fueled by Cultivation (at least until Odium arrived, and possibly Invested on Ashyn resulting in bacteria/diseases that led to the humans of that world largely destroying it). Related to this theory but slightly tangential: Following the line of these thoughts, I do think that the fact that The Silence Divine reveals there are still people living on Ashyn and still using the disease magic means that there must be some Investiture still fueling it....meaning that Cultivation likely left a Splinter of herself behind, either intentionally or on accident, when she left for Roshar. However, if this is true, it could be the reason why Honor took the brunt of keeping Odium imprisoned via the Oathpact and his Heralds, while also explaining why Odium might have a trickier time Shattering Cultivation than he did Honor....because she's not entirely there on Roshar, and to completely kill or Shatter her, Odium would have to return himself or part of his Investiture to Ashyn and eliminate her there too, which he's either unable or unwilling to do, given the nature of his imprisonment and his focus on Roshar.

Now this actually started in the KSA discussion thread, but I think, that it should be more public. --- In the wonderful Chapter 82: The Girl Who Stood Up, Hoid tells Shallan the following. So Wit is trying to tell her, that Shallan needs to revert the process that she did and love herself again. He sees a woman more wonderful than any of the lies, the woman that she has always been. The woman, that doesn't need Veil and Radiant, but encompasses all of them. A few chapters later, where she confronts Ashertmarn, she hears the following in Wit's voice... Now, in the fight with Re-Shephir Shallan mentioned, that when Re-Shephir and she formed a connection and she was 'laid bare'. I think, that that happens whenever she 'merges' with an Unmade. The first voices obviously are from Ashertmarn, the Heart of the Revel, but.. I was thinking, that Shallan was 'laid bare' again and Ashertmarn somehow got a memory from her, that included the scenes in Chapter 82 and the Unmade felt her predicament with fracturing personalities and her trust in Wit... and manipulates her into keeping her personas by pushing them into submission, which is what she thinks she is doing by the end of OB, through using Wit's voice. But Ashertmarn is described as mindless... Just speculating this, but Unmade are Splinters of Odium, right? I think, it was actually Odium, who communicated with her through Ashertmarn? Into keeping her messed up by keeping her fragmented? Side note, that Pattern always seemed concerned about Shallan's doing with the personas and hummed in appreciation to Wit's original advice. And I have a feeling, that Pattern became more distant through the course of the book. I always remembered him far chattier and interested. Is their bond deteriorating, because Shallan is straying further and further away from her path of attaining self-awareness? Would also make sense with how he tried to manipulate Dalinar... with the Thrill... Another Unmade, Nergaoul. It just seems such a contrast from what Wit said... I know Wit is stupidly capable and mysterious, but I can't see how he could have made any connection to Shallan while she was 'inside' Ashertmarn. And of course the constant mention of "emotions" and "sensations", which is basically Odium's theme through the entire book. No, I'm pretty sure, that it was Odium acting through Ashertmarn.

Why Odium needs to kill all humans to leave Greater Roshar has bugged me since I joined the Shard in 2014. This is my third or fourth attempt to answer that question. Theory Honor has bound Odium’s Investiture into the “hearts of men.” Odium must destroy Roshar’s human population to free himself from Greater Roshar and recapture his trapped Investiture. Analysis 1. I begin with @ROSHtaFARian2.0's interesting post about Ashyn and its bacteria-based magic. ROSHtaFARian2.0 concludes that magic comes from Honor and Cultivation, but others in that thread rightly (IMO) point out Odium was the god who came with humans to Roshar. This also fits the WoB that Odium came to Roshar after Honor and Cultivation. 2. A bacteria-based magic system comports with my theory of Odium’s magic. IMO, Odium breaks bonds to power his magic. Bacteria breaks down the human body. I think Odium Invested Ashyn’s bacteria to grant magic to Ashyn humans. 3. As ROSHtaFARian2.0 says, bacteria-based magic wouldn’t work on Roshar. Humans came there without magic. But they did come with Odium-Invested bacteria infecting their bodies. 4. I think Honor bound Odium’s Investiture to humans at some point, perhaps immediately on their arrival? Maybe he integrated the Invested bacteria into their bodies? Unclear. 5. This may explain why there are no Honor/Cultivation “Hatespren.” Human emotions spawn all kinds of spren, but we never see Hatespren, only Voidspren that personify Singer emotions. This seems odd to me. Perhaps human hate is internalized into Odium’s Investiture? That bit of Odium Investiture may also explain why Roshar’s humans are incorrigibly fractious.

Thoughout OB we have seen Team Odium on a winning streak. They have basically rushed Alethkar and taken over most of Roshar. This sure looks bad on paper. But compare for a minute not the land that is under control, but the armies of Odium and the coalition. Then we come to a different conclusion altogether. On the one hand we have lots of Parshendi. Sure there are a lot of them. But they all had minimal training. Numbers are not everything in warfare. Then we have the Fused. The name alone sounds terrifing. But their battlefield performance is abysmal. We see multiple times in OB, how one Radiant fights off multiple Fused. And storms even Moash kills one of them, even though he just had few months of basic training. He sure is talented, but still this says a lot about the quality of the Fused as fighters. This is because they are not used to their new physical bodies. Then we got Thunderclasts. They are a tough nut to crack, but Radiants with their healing abilities don’t seem to have great problems taking them down. So… what do we have on the other side? We got roughly 70.000 Alethi warriors, who are known across Roshar for their experience in warfare. They are veterans hardened by years of battles on the Shattered Plains. They also got shards, lots of them. And they are pissed that the Parshendi have taken their homeland. So it stands now lots of armed peasant Parshendi against the fiercest war machine Roshar probably has ever known. Then we got the Knights Radiants, who are only increasing in numbers. Did I mention that not a single high-tier Radiant has been killed in OB? These guys just have the habit of surviving. You could make an argument that the Fused are just such brilliant commanders that they will win anyways. I have serious doubts about that considering that the ablest Fused have not even manifested yet. This might not be a coincidence. What I am going to argue here is that subduing almost all of Roshar under Parshendi rule has never been Odium`s end game. Instead it has been to invoke Hatred inside the humans and the Alethi in particular. This makes a lot of thematic sense. Humans are his original people from Braize after all. They are the original Voidbringers. He also chose Dalinar, a human, as his champion. Let me project a probable future that would happen, if Odium gets his way. The Alethi want to take back their homeland, they are constantly worrying what is happening to their loved ones back at home (and their property…..). So hatred begins to boil toward the Parshendi. After their initial campaign in Tu Bayla they march in direction of their beloved home. At the first encounters with the Parshendi at the border to Jah Keved they gain victory. They are surprised how easy these wins have been. The Radiants have kept Fused and Thunderclasts off and they, though outnumbered, could punch through the enemy lines quite easily. Then they see what the parshendi, who were motivated by Odium have done to the Alethi in the borderlands. Slavery might have been the gentlest fortune a Alethi civilian could have gotten. Also lots of horror stories about the Parshendi are being shared. Most of them are untrue, but some of them are not. Now a then crazy seeming plan brought forth back a year ago by Jasnah Kholin begins to get supporters; To exterminate all Parshendi that the plague of the Fused may be stopped once and for all. At least this is how they rationalize their genocidal plans. If Odium had gotten his way then Dalinar would have been his champion feeding these ideas. Kaladin and all Radiants in their right mind quit the Alethi expedition. Still after their initial decisive victories even this mostly Radiant-less force, which posses still a significant amount of shards goes on and mobs up all Parshendi resistance left in Alethkar. This is a war of extermination. Parshendi are systematically killed by the enraged Alethi. When the mass-genocide has been completed all of the Alethi armies have fallen into Odiums hand. They turn their attention now to the rest of Roshar. With the help of the Thunderclasts and newly formed human voidbinder, they can subdue all of Roshar. The Radiants make a desperate last stand but, ultimately, they are on the losing side. All living Parshendi on Roshar are hunted and killed. They merely served for Odium the purpose of being the object of human hate. After they had outlived their use, he could throw them away. And maybe he hates Parshendi himself beeing the shard of Hatred and all. So this has been my first post... It is really not a pleasent theory. But in my opinion it makes a lot of sense to see it this way, even if a lot or even all of the details are wrong. Ah, and english is not my native language, so I apologize, if this has been a bit hard to read.

For a Shardholder that we believed to have the Shard of Hate, which was taken on by a nasty person to begin with, Odium comes off as surprisingly calm. He sees himself as being the Shard of Passion, and others note that he seems to feed on passion. However, I think that for as long as he has been around and influenced by the Shard, he still seems too in control of himself for either hatred or passion to be his main focus. Instead, I think that he is the Shard of Betrayals. This would explain a lot of things. We find out that Odium is a human god, but he is leading the Listeners/Singers against the humans. The Stormlight Archive starts with nine of the ten Heralds betraying the last one so that they can avoid further torture. All of the humans which Odium or his Fused recruit (or attempt to recruit, in the case of Dalinar) are betraying humanity: Moash, Amaram, and Taravangian all join with Odium not because they believe his side to be the right one, but because they believe his side is the stronger one or because of personal benefits. This sets them apart from Nin and the Skybreakers, who join for reasons of morality, even if that morality has been twisted. If Odium is the Shardholder of Betrayal, he would still be able to make long-term plans, act calmly rather than passionately all the time, and it would explain how he could continue to destroy other Shards since Betrayal is nearly as destructive as Ruin. The only trouble I have with the theory is explaining how he could be held by the Oathpact, but maybe it is as simple as “you cannot betray someone unless they trust you”, and so he has to be able to act in a way to make others trust him in order to fulfill his Shard’s Intent. Thoughts?

We learned a lot of information in Oathbringer, and it's taken me quite a few days to process what I've read. A lot of that processing seems to happen as I'm lying in bed half asleep, and that is where this theory comes from. TDLR; Surges came first, Honor bound them to Heralds and his Investiture via the Oathpact, and this was done to help stop surges from destroying Roshar during Desolations. Now that the TLDR is out of the way, let me actually explain where my brain went with this. 1. Humans, according to OB, came to Roshar because they'd destroyed their home with Surgebinding. -- I believe that it's being called surgebinding because that's how the powers are known on Roshar at this time. My theory postulates that humans had Surges, ALL surges, in an unchecked manner and this led to the Cataclysm on Ashyn (likely) or whatever their original home was. They were able to use Surges because it it simply just channeled/focused Investiture. It did not *require* Stormlight, but whatever the equivalent is where they are from. 2. Humans came to Roshar, as refugees, Odium followed them, and they were accepted there. -- At first they settled in fine, but then decided they wanted more... seems plausible. In the book we're told the humans were the enemy in the first Desolation (if not some of the first few Desolations). I can buy this. They would have been seen as invaders, as is evident by the Fused's hatred of humanity. There are still remnants of human worship of Odium on Roshar (in the form of Thaylen Passions, as one example). 3. Odium is the side with the most Passion. -- I believe the reason Dalinar's visions show humans fighting humans fighting parsh, et al, is because there were not distinct sides. Odium basically liked to stoke the coals and cause a ruckus in order to inspire passion. Early Desolations were a manifestation of this I believe, and throughout the years people simply gravitated to the side they were more comfortable with. 4. Early Surges were unchecked. Hence, the Oathpact. -- Here comes part of the meat of my theory. I believe early use of surges were unchecked, and all surges were accessible by anyone who drew upon Investiture to use them. This made them extremely dangerous. Also I believe ANY Investiture could fuel them. Therefore my theory postulates that 9 of the Heralds (not Taln) were men and women who could use all surges AND were in positions of power in Roshar were chosen by Odium during the creation of the Oathpact. The Oathpact was a way for Honor to allow Surges to remain on this world, but be limited and bound by oaths, so as to not destroy it like it did the previous world humans occupied. Taln was selected by Honor. I don't necessarily think the Heralds were told they were selected or by whom. I also think this is why today it's called Surgebinding. Honor literally bound the Surges, and bound them to HIS Investiture, created the Honorblades as a way to limit how many surges of what type could be used in conjunction and that this is the basic idea of the Oathpact. Honor did not want these surges on Roshar all the time, so the agreement was made that after each Desolation the Heralds would go to Damnation to give humans time without them. I don't think Honor counted on the Spren trying to mimic the Honorblades. The KR were then formed to keep the spren in check and to keep humans further bound by oaths in order to use Surges. This was all rolled into the Oathpact. EDIT: After reading some WoBs I'm adjusting my theory a bit to account for information I did not have while sleeping... 5. Odium sidesteps the Oathpact. -- Once the Surges were no longer free to be used by anyone, Odium was at a disadvantage. He began by torturing the Heralds, trying to corrupt them. I think their Connection to Honor was too strong to be corrupted, so he turned to the next best thing... the spirits of the dead parsh from the early Desolations. (He still tortured the Heralds, as we know, and he did so to begin new Desolations as soon as he could following the last one). He couldn't allow them to use Surges, since he Surgebinding is bound by the Oathpact, but he sidesteps this with what we know as "Voidbinding", a corrupted version of Surges, likely powered by one or more of the Unmade. This is legal since the Unmade are not likely part of the Oathpact. 6. The Death of Honor. -- Wild tin-foil part of this theory is that the Heralds themselves, with the help of Odium, killed Tanavast and splintered Honor. WHY??? Why would the Heralds do this?? Because he was weakening. I posit that the Heralds believed that if Tanavast was killed someone would take up the Shard and strengthen Honor and keep the Oathpact strong. Odium swooped in and Splintered Honor before that could happen. This is all extremely unlikely, but it kind of fits the narrative I have going here so I forced myself to write it anyway. So, here we have it. This is what I ended up with after digesting the information given to us in Oathbringer. I only have a physical copy of the book, so I don't have actual quotes in this post, but I can probably work to find some. I'm pretty happy with this theory, even though I'm probably wrong in most, if not all, of it, but it's what my brain concluded while I was asleep so I thought I'd share and see what the other more-cosmere-aware folks here thought about it.

Hey 17th Shard, My best friend shared with me an interesting theory that I wanted to run past you. He is not much for the forums but he did say he would be OK if I shared it here. I took his idea and built up a quick assumption list to help solidify his insight. Assumptions: 1. Bondsmiths can make and break Nahel, and other, bonds between a person and a spren. This assumption is not, necessarily, pivotal to the theory but perhaps the Bondsmiths are the ones who figured out what to do. 2. There is some sort of fundamental, underlying principles that dictate how these bonds are formed. Perhaps it is the innate system of the Rosharan system that makes the rule, perhaps Honor/Cultivation have a hand in it, perhaps it is a mix of those two, or perhaps it is something else altogether. Whatever the reason is, I do not think it is too big of a stretch to say that Brandon would create governing principles for the Rosharan magic systems. 3. The Knights Radiant of old (pre-Recreance) knew that Parshendi (or Parshmen) were Voidbringers. Or, since there is some debate about what a Voidbringer actually is, we might say that the Knights Radiant of old were aware that Parshendi/Parshmen were involved, somehow, with Desolations and Voidbringers. Theory: The Knights Radiant, knowing that Parshendi were related to the Desolations/Voidbringers (see assumption 3), discovered a way to break (see assumption 1) the underlying magical principle (see assumption 2) that allowed Parshendi to bond with Voidspren. In doing so, however, they also had to break their own bonds as well because the underlying principle applied to both their Nahel bond and the Parshendi bond. The Recreance was a direct result of the Knights Radiant deciding to give up their bonds because they thought it would forever prevent the Voidspren from bonding with the Parshendi again. We know that one Order of Radiants (possibly the Skybreakers) secretly kept their bonds which means that whatever a Bondsmith (see assumption 1) did to break the underlying principle (see assumption 2) was not completely successful - either due to the Order that secretly refused or perhaps because the Bondsmith just did something wrong. This mistake/accident/betrayal meant that some of the Parshendi remained Parshendi (Eshonai's people) and most turned into the Parshmen. This also means that the line in the Diagram about Taravangian possibly reusing the secret that broke the Radiants before could be referring to this. If the current Radiants were told that they could break all of the Voidspren's bonds with Parshendi by sacrificing their spren what would Kaladin, Shallan, and the others do? Could they justify to themselves not doing this? If they could save the world by sacrificing their spren... well, I think it would be hard for them to refuse. What say you Sharders? Is it possible that the Recreance was caused by the Knights Radiant delibrately trying to break the bonding process so that Parshendi could never again join with a Voidspren?

Hold the secret that broke the Knights Radiant. You may need it to destroy the new orders when they return. - WOR Chapter 84 epigraph (decoded) Now, as the Windrunners were thus engaged, arose the event which has hitherto been referenced: namely, that discovery of some wicked thing of eminence -- WOR Chapter 38 epigraph These epigraphs strongly imply that the Recreance was precipitated by the KR discovering some terrible fact. It doesn't seem to have been tied to any corruption that may have crept in to the Orders (the taxes for travel through Urithiru, etc.) Now, here's something anomalous. The Desolations devastated Roshar, killing something like 90 percent of the human population and knocking technology back to the stone age, at least sometimes. Yet when Honor was Splintered (after the Recreance -- he remembers it in the visions) there seems to have been no such cataclysm. Aharietiam is still seen as "the Last Desolation", which it wouldn't be if another apocalyptic event had occurred since the Recreance. Similarly, Odium Splintered Devotion and Dominion on Sel. But humanity on that planet survived; he didn't destroy the planet, depopulate it, or warp it into some kind of a hellscape. So why the devastating, lethal Desolations on Roshar before the Recreance? Because humans were fighting on Honor's side. Odium doesn't really care about killing humans, except incidentally to getting at the Shards; nothing much below the power-level of a Herald registers on his "radar screen" Therefore, my proposal for the Secret That Broke The KR is: Honor's been feeding us into a meat grinder for thousands of years to protect Cultivation and a couple of alien gods we'll never see. If we let Odium win, nothing bad really happens to humanity. Honor betrayed us. Our spren have been in on it, all along - they're pieces of Honor. So let him die.

Prepare your tinfoil hats and bear with me. So I found this little WoB on facebook: QUESTIONER: Is Adolin and Shallan going to get together, or will Kaladin and Shallan? BRANDON SANDERSON: That is quite the question. I will eventually answer that, but you are getting Read-and-Find-Outed. It is intentionally a bit of a mimicry of something else that happened in the past. [Source: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/34-arcanum-unbounded-seattle-signing/#e5903] And it immediately made me (and other people, based on the comments) think of the Honor-Cultivation-Odium situation that supposedly happened. The obvious reaction to that would be that Shallan, as the female is Cultivation and Kaladin, having a HONORspren would be Honor...or would he? Now let's look at this little blurb from the back of WoK: There are four whom we watch. The first is the surgeon, forced to put aside healing to become a soldier in the most brutal war of our time. The second is the assassin, a murderer who weeps as he kills. The third is the liar, a young woman who wears a scholar’s mantle over the heart of a thief. The last is the highprince, a warlord whose eyes have opened to the past as his thirst for battle wanes. The world can change. Surgebinding and Shardwielding can return; the magics of ancient days can become ours again. These four people are key. One of them may redeem us. And one of them will destroy us. So the possibilities for Odium's champion are: - Szeth (too obvious) - Shallan (we already ruled that out) - Dalinar (but it'd spoil his "redemption arc" with turning from being the blood-lusty Blackthorn to being the wise leader) - Kaladin (who even based solely on this blurb I'd guess to be the Champion.) So we have a proof that the "Darth Adolin" theory that became so popular, seeing him as the obvious choice for the Champion is pure chulldung as he's not even mentioned and if this "love triangle" is really supposed to mimic the situation with rosharan shards, we'll probably all cry for Kaladin. A lot. Feel free to yell at me if you disagree or if this has been said before. OB pre-released chapters spoilers hat (I think) back up Kaladin being the Odium's champion:

Hey Team! First day on here, but long time follower of everything Sanderson related and have read everything published within the cosmere. For a while now I have been interested in the potential use of Hemalurgy on Roshar. We know inquisitors can have 9-11 spikes (I believe) and Hemalurgy is of Ruin, the only other Shard, apart from Odium that seems that have directly try to kill/splinter another Shard. Given there are 10 surges in surgebinding, and 10 is an important number on Roshar, it might well be that there are 10 voidbinding surges. We also know that Honor was pushing Dalinar towards forcing Odium to chose a champion. So I have a few questions and wanted to know peoples thoughts regarding them, or if any interviews with Brandon have said anything about this - or alternatively if this has been discussed before. Firstly will we see hemalurgy on Roshar, secondly could either a radiant/voidbringer hold all the surges through spikes, thirdly would Odium be able to use hemalurgy to form a direct connection to someone like ruin, and fourthly, if so, could these be viable champions for each side? What do people think about this?

What follows is my current theory on how the 10 Heralds became the 10 fool's through the coarse of the Desolations. I will update this post as it evolves. I will try to provide links to all WOB. Quotes will come from the kindle versions of the books via cut and paste. I will list book, chapter, and location number. Bold will be my emphasis. Italics will be possible contradictory evidence. Number 18 here From Reddit Fantasy Bookclub Q&A with Brandon Sanderson Feb 28th, 2011 We will start with this quote which shows us all Heralds were in WOK. First, the Desolations occurred when the Heralds were sent back to Roshar after one of them broke under the torture of Odium. Second, each Herald is associated with a primary and secondary Divine Attribute. (Possibly primary from Honor, Secondary from Cultivation?) Third, the torture does not happen in the physical realm. It occurs in either the cognitive, or more likely the spiritual realm. Fourth, when Odium breaks a Herald, he is literally breaking part of that Heralds spiritual connection to the Divine Attribute. Fifth, Odium's goal was to break all the Heralds and bring about the the Everstorm, allowing him to shatter Honor and Cultivation. Sixth, breaking the Divine Attributes shifted them towards something more compatible with Odium and less compatible with Honor. This resulted in the attributes associated with the 10 Fool's. Number 19 in this WOB, says each is uniquely insane. NOTE: One of the biggliest issues with this theory is not knowing the 10 Fools attributes. Two Fools are named. Two have attributes. Cabine - He acts like a child although he is an adult. TWOK chapter 37, page 593, location 10668 Eshu - He speaks of things he does not understand in front of those who do. WOR chapter 71, page 593, location 16877 One issue I have here is that the 2 Heralds I would link these two too are both female. Paliah and Battar. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1) We have a WOB on this. Not a confirmation, but along those lines. 2) Herald. Primary Divine Attribute. Secondary Divine Attribute. Jezrien. Protecting. Leading Nale. Just. Confident Chanarach. Brave. Obedient Vedel. Loving. Healing Paliah. Learned. Giving Shalash. Creative. Honest Battar. Wise. Careful Kalak. Resolute. Builder Talenel. Dependable. Resourceful Ishar. Pious. Guiding 3) Since Odium was attempting to break the Heralds focus on their Divine Attribute, the torture most likely took place in the spiritual realm. The spren would probably know something if it took place in the cognitive realm. One thing pointing to the cognitive realm though is the fact that Taln appeared covered in condensation much like a shardblade. 4) By breaking the Herald, Odium shifted their Primary attribute to closer align with his shard and align less with Honors. This usually resulted in an almost inversion of the attribute. SPECIFICALLY I THINK ONLY THE PRIMARY ATTRIBUTE WAS BROKEN/TWISTED. Below I will show what I think the attribute shifted to after the Devine attribute. Herald. Primary Divine Attribute. Secondary Divine Attribute. Jezrien. Protecting. (Submission) Leading Nale. Just. (Arbitrary)(Judgement) Confident Chanarach. Brave. Obedient Vedel. Loving. Healing Paliah. Learned. Giving Shalash. Creative. (Destructive) Honest Battar. Wise. Careful Kalak. Resolute. (Weak-willed) Builder Talenel. Dependable. (Erratic) Resourceful Ishar. Pious. (Traitorous) Guiding These are based off of what we have seen or heard in the books so far. These are not perfect words, but the 17th shard manymind will probably come up with better. There are some subtle indications that only 9 of the 10 fool's have a strong history or mythology. Here is one concerning Lyft and pancakes. I think I subconsciously connected Lyft's silly quest to eat all 10 Pancakes with the 10 fool's. Research could not find a direct correlation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jezrien gives up on protecting humanity personally, submits to the Will of the group, and sacrifices Talenel to uphold the entire oathpact. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Nale shifts from Just- working within the accepted standards of right and wrong to Arbitrary- following the rule of law without regards to morality.....he goes straight lawful evil. From Edgedancer Chapter 9, page 596 Arcanum Unbound, location 8565 Judgement not Justice. From Edgedancer Chapter 9, page 596 Arcanum Unbound, location 8565 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shalash is pretty clear with her running around destroying art, and significantly art that depicts her and other heralds. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kalak is in no way resolute when Jezrien meets him. He is in fact very weak willed, confessing that he cannot go back. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Talenel (if it really is him) comes back a broken man, highly erratic and unable to perform his duties as the Herald of War. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ishar formed the Knights Radiant originally, he led the Bondsmiths. He was also the one who promulgated the traitorous idea that 1 Herald could support the Oathpact. From Edgedancer: And And ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 5) We know there were not literally 99 desolation. I suspect there were 9. One each time Odium broke a Herald. Then the next time that Herald would not be tortured as hard so that about her would break first. Nine also being the number of Odium I believe would work well with this. After the Oathpact was discarded, Odium let humanity rewrite Roshar's history and religion in preparation for the Final Desolation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 6) The corruption of the 9 Heralds weakened Honor, but the Knights Radiant provided some support, until the Day of Requience when they abandoned all their oaths. Honor shattered shortly after. I have to go back and find some more quotes and WOB to fully support some of this, but I will edit them in as I find them.

So is voidbinding just bonding a Spren to fill a void? The Listeners bind various types of spren to fill a void in them that they need filled to function. If there is nothing in that void, they are in slave form. They can bond inert spren (spren who lend no specific form) to ascend to dull form (if you left Parshman out in a highstorm would they become dull form?). They can bond specific spren to attain various useful forms. i.e. Work form, War form, Nimble form, Mate form, possibly art form, scholar form, or mediation form. And they can bond void spren to take the forms of power; Storm Form, Smoke form, night form, and decay form. Voidbinding differs from Surgebinding in that a surgebinder has to be broken, and a spren seeps into the cracks, while a Listener (and various wildlife) have a void that needs to be filled to function. The Greatshells and the skyeels may also be using voidbinding. A Spren has bonded with them to reduce the effect of gravity on them and to give them some level of sentience. Were the Ryshadium also made using Voidbinding? I may be completely wrong, or maybe this has all already been discussed. But I was more or less just musing.

Now that we’ve met post-Everstorm parshmen, it may be time to rethink our assumptions about the Listeners. I apologize if this has been discussed to death in a different way, but I wasn’t able to find anything challenging the idea that the term “Last Legion” was anything but positive. It has seemed natural to assume that the Listeners (Parshendi is a nationality) are the correct or proper type of Parsh-Rosharan. They are represented by relatable, well-meaning characters and have a fascinating oral tradition that tells of a daring escape from Odium’s influence. We contrasted them with the enslaved parshmen whom they pitied for not having forms or hearing rhythms. Now we have a second group traveling with Kaladin who, despite not having multiple forms or attuning to the rhythms, are just as relatable and intelligent as the Listeners. Is one group more “natural” or “better” than the other? What got me thinking about this is the title of the interlude that introduces us to Venli’s research and stormspren, “Last Legion.” It’s also the chapter where Eshonai’s mother describes the Listeners as the “Last Legion,” and we hear the story of how they escaped: I think this is problematic in a series about the loss of knowledge and how it seems to have led humans to forget critical pieces of their history and set Odium’s plans in motion. Why not the Listeners, too? Eshonai even thinks: It’s possible that others have noticed that this history is a bit troubling, but now, especially after seeing the group traveling with Kaladin, there are red flags all over the place. The Listeners believe that they are a self-sacrificing Last Legion, but given that this is also the interlude where we see the Listeners move toward bonding with stormspren, we should consider the possibility that the Listeners are actually Odium’s last legion (lower case). Much like humans have been manipulated over millennia, is it possible that Odium ensured that there was one last legion remaining when the future parshmen had their spiritwebs damaged? It would actually be easier for him to manipulate the Listeners, to trick them into believing that they had escaped, leaving just enough mysterious information for them to figure out how to discover forms that brought them progressively closer to summoning the Everstorm. I’ve also grown increasingly suspicious of the rhythms, or at least the potential to “piggyback” on the signal and transmit information that helps Odium: I’m wondering if the group with Kaladin would need to attune to the rhythms they are aware of—but don’t understand—before they could transform, even in the coming highstorm. At any rate, I don’t think that we can be sure what these Parsh-Rosharans should look like, if they should have multiple forms, or what their relationship to the rhythms should be. Would the healed parshmen eventually die without a spren bond? Are they fine the way they are? I do think we should consider the possibility that the Parshendi (and any other Listeners) were Odium’s unwitting last legion.

I just realized, after reading the thread about Miles' death and the RAFO of whether it was a death rattle, that Odium may have jumped to Scadrial and Harmony is holding him back. Wax's conversation with Harmony and the mention of the red miasma sounds like Trell, and is either Taln's Scar attempting to expand... or Odium. Also, that could be a suitable ending for Stormlight 5, because it's the *Final* Desolation, before Odium leaves Roshar for good (evil, I mean). The back 5 would be about trying to unSplinter Honor. I hope this topic doesn't end up like my "Harm mores" theory which was disproven explicitly in the text itself.

Based on this passage in the new chapters: I am led to believe that Odium is not, and never will be again, in top fighting shape. To hazard a guess, I'd say he got wounded killing Ambition and lost chunks of power like Ambition did. That might be a partial cause of the Evil, or the shades. That is assuming a lot though. Also, what does the Stormfather mean by 'forces?' My initial assumption was Cultivation, but I don't think it has to be that simple. Maybe the 'survival' Shard is actually just lying in wait for the day Odium over-extends himself. This Shard doesn't have any of its power tied up in a planet, while Odium is Invested at this point, and apparently wounded to boot. Maybe the other Shards, known or not, are watching closely to pounce on any mistake Odium makes. Maybe the worldhopping community has some potential plans they could put into motion if things start heating up. I don't know that any of these are likely, but I do think that, whatever the answer, this is going to be important, at least behind the scenes. I was always a bit bothered that it seemed Odium came out on top of all these fights without any sign of injury. I guess that wasn't the case, which makes me feel a lot better.

The intervention of another Shard irrevocably changing the balance of power in the system. My theory is rooted in the knowledge that Odium is diminished somewhat making him weaker than other Shards, though he would be safe from Cultivation as her intent likely keeps her more passive another Shard would be able to defeat him. So that gives me 3 main variants of this idea, A) Odium is shattered and/or absorbed by another Shard between books 5 and 6 creating a new antagonist and changing the game entirely B.) Odium finally absorbs another Shard, prizing his survival over his purity, making the Champion plan likely unusable and likely necessitating intervention from outside forces C) Another Shard arrives in Roshar but doesn't immediately shatter and/or absorb Odium, likely being hostile to the native humans this could force a 3 way conflict and/or intervention from outside forces All of these are also founded on the idea of needed a significant status quo shift for the second arc and the Desolation of the first arc being over by then, it would also be likely that Hoid might try to engineer one of the above scenarios given his opposition to Odium and all could result in the destruction of life on Roshar which he's stated wouldn't deter him from his goal. I admit this is all a bit vague and wild but let me know what you think and if you agree which scenario is most likely or the one you would most like to see. edit: also please be forgiving of this topic, I haven't started one in a long time if ever.

Hey Sharders! Long time lurker, but first time poster! Hopefully im not regurgitating a theory posted elsewhere, and apologies if this theory expands a bit beyond the confines of roshar, it's about an entity on roshar but by necessity has to expand a bit further! Let me know if i should move this to cosmere theories! but i have some ideas about the origin of the Nightwatcher. It starts with our current understanding of the nature of spren capable of nahel bonds. From what I understand, these spren are small pieces of honor, and cultivation to varying degrees depending on the variety. And have been referred to as splinters of honor or cultivation. These splinters are bits of investiture left without will or a host long enough that it gains sentience. (There has been confirmation in a WoB that spren are splinters similar to the way seons are on sel) I've come accross a number of theories proposing that the nightwatcher is of cultivation, possibly a kind of cognitive shadow similar to the stormfather. This doesnt hold up in my opinion, there is a WoB that i dont know how to link which tells us that cultivations holder is still alive, and from what we know of the old magic, it doesnt seem to fit into the types of investiture made possible by honor and cultivation. (nor the possible iterations of voidbinding that we'll see more of soon) I propose that the nightwatcher is actually a splinter of adonalsium from pre-shattering. There were already other spren on Roshar before any of the shards came there. I think it's possible that this is a magic system that predates all other kinds on roshar, and was put into place before any shards were taken up. The concept of a boon and a curse doesnt feel at all like the symbiosis present in all of the magic from honor, cultivation, or even odium. Thoughts?

Earlier today I was discussing Odium and his potential with future sight with some people and it led me down an interesting line of thought. We know Rayse is a schemer and he uses Moelach to collect Death Rattles in order to see the future, for whatever reason. It could be that he's capable of using them in order to gain access to Honor/Cultivation's abilities- humans on Roshar are of them after all- in order to more accurately pin down the future. If this is true, it might mean that Odium is using Moelach to scan for specific bits of info he's not capable of finding out on his own. However, Odium is a schemer and the Death Rattles being collected are flawed. Anyone that is near can hear them, giving them some insight into the future and possibly Rayse's plans. For someone that is supposedly crafty and dangerous, this seems like a huge flaw in one of his lieutenants, especially one he might be reliant upon. Then it came to mind that he could be using Moelach for another purpose, to mislead King T into following his will without him realizing it. When on his supposedly most brilliant day, he brought up Moelach, though the manner in which he did so was a little suspicious. The way he phrases it almost makes it seem that he wishes for his future self to ignore Moelach and focus on more important tasks, like becoming a proper ruler for the world to follow behind. Thus leading to the chaos in Jah Keved. Yet, why waste such a powerful resource? I believe King T. knew at the time of the Diagram's creation that it'd grow more and more inaccurate and the Death Rattles would possibly provide a way to alleviate that, however I also think he knew that if he did so then all of his actions would become suspect, possibly tainted by Odium's own influence. So he decided to steer his future self away from that simple fix and instead focus on rulership. As fate would have it however, the present King T. decided that the resource was too valuable to ignore and started to harvest it. Essentially allowing Moelach to control and direct King T's actions and thus polluting the Diagram. Moelach then decided to leave Kharbranth and focus on other tasks that were at hand, like the wars in Jah Keved. Thoughts?

Crazy theory. After reading the newest Chapters I'm increasingly convinced Renarin and Elhokar as potential Champions for Odium are red herrings being thrown out by Brandon. Reading about Dalinar under the spell of the Thrill and presumably the touch of one of the Unmade, it's clear that it induces a form of psychosis, including delusions of invincibility, unnatural rage and aggression and loss of judgement. Which led me to hypothesize, what if every Unmade can touch and alter humans like that? What if one of the Unmade can induce hopelessness and deep depression or even bipolar thinking that can alter judgement and behavior as well? Kaladin has been battling severe depression since the start of tWoK. But given how the Thrill works, it may not even be completely natural mental illness. Kaladin may be in the claws of one of the Unmade, and Brandon may be seeding hints of Kaladin (or at least a darker version of Kaladin) being influenced into being Odium's Champion through the touch of the Unmade on his mind. I can only imagine the state of mind any human would have with all nine shadows touching them. The key to this would be to tear away Syl. Syl hangs a lampshade on it, "My job is to bring light and joy and chase away shadows when you're being a dour idiot, Kal." I think this will be another one of Brandon's clever ironies before the series is done. As Syl's influence on Kaladin increases, his depression (and the touch of the Unmade?) shrinks and he becomes less...odious. As Syl's influence wanes and she grows more distant in the first and second book, when Kal was considering suicide or letting Elhokar die, his depression was worse. We saw with Dalinar that the closer he came to Radiant, the less the Thrill was able to affect him. And just as removing Syl from the equation would be the key to making Kaladin Odium's champion, reviving Syl would be the key to redeeming Kaladin and defeating Odium.

I could not help but notice that Brightlord Hatham's colors are red and gold, exactly like Odium. /tinfoil

So at the end of WoR almost everyone in the fandom started noting Renarin was acting "kinda shady", and then chapters 8 and 9 of Oathbringer removed the "kinda" and turned the "shady" dial to 11 and snapped it off. The conclusion that a lot of people seem to have reached is that Glys isn't what she says she is or that Renarin is going to turn evil/is already evil. An equal amount of much the same people would also tell you that such a plot twist would be very predictable and kinda lame. So here I am to offer some thoughts I had when thinking about this while procrastinating at work First let me set up where I'm coming from: - We know the bondspren are at least a mixture of Honor and Cultivation's Investiture. With some (Honorspren) leaning almost fully one way while other (Cultivationspren) lean the other. But I don't think we have a definitive WoB about if any of Odium's power is also mixed in there. -Seeing the future is said to be "of the Voidbringers". We know from previous books that facets of myth and legend on various shardworlds are in-fact hints or obtuse references to the natures or powers of the Shards that inhabit or shaped that world. So I am pretty confident in predicting seeing what is to come is associated with the Voidbringers in the cultures of Roshar because its something Voidspren or Odium himself are very good at. And hey look! It's also what the Truthwatchers pretty much do all the time! -For all their being personifications of concepts, spren do show a bit of an ability to make choices as long as those choices don't contradict their concepts. Like the dichotomy of truth and lies between the Honorspren and the Cryptics are part of their nature, but the fact that this has grown into a big racial conflict in Shadesmar between them as implied by Jasnah is probably not. The two people most likely chose to express their rivalry this way instead of it being something hard-coded in them as Honor/Lie-spren. So from that base I would like to posit that Truthwatchers bind a type of spren (Prophesyspren?) that are actually mostly (or even entirely) of Odium, explaining why they are associated with Future Sight. But who in ages past turned against their master and joined the forces of humanity in the conflict between the 3 Shards. Maybe they foresaw something that rankled them if Odium won, maybe their nature as beings who conceptualize "seeing what is to come" meant that they are afraid of losing their entire purpose if Odium wins (a Cosmere where he has shattered the other 15 and rules unopposed would probably be very dull and predictable to a race of Seers). For whatever reason they turned against Odium and joined team Roshar, then when the rest of the bondspren started to imitate the Honorblades and give birth to Surgebinders they followed suit. That explains Renarin acting super weird around mentions of Odium's Champion and the general distance and obscurity attributed to the Truthwatchers in history: its not just that they are aloof and cagey because they get to know deep terrible secrets by their very nature, it *is* partially that, but also that as technically Voidspren they have an innate knowledge of Odium and his designs. The aloofness also probably comes from the fact that the other orders and other spren still probably didn't trust them, and who knows what the general populace would have done if they had known. It also kinda explains why Renarin DOESN'T TALK TO ANYONE ABOUT ANYTHING. His father has pledged to destroy Odium and is bonded to Honor's own Sliver, what is someone who was already a wallflower before this all started supposed to do? Go up to Dalinar and say "Hey dad, just wanted to tell you all this super secret stuff I know from my bond with a fragment of the Lord of Hate, but its cool she says she's on our side!"? So yeah, Renarin, Glys, the rest of her kind and the order of the Truthwatchers. I believe they are ultimately good guys, they just have an INCREDIBLY complicated backstory that explains why they are so, well *shady*, about it all.

Scadrial shows us class warfare. Sel shows us religious warfare. I think Roshar shows us race warfare. I read the Stormfather’s statement as one of racial superiority and arrogance towards the listeners. The Stormfather believes only “beasts” bond with “subspren,” presumably pre-Shattering sentient spren. Oaths are not involved in such bonds. The Stormfather claims non-oath bonds don’t require “intelligence, free will, and choice.” While his statement also refers to greatshells, skyeels and other native lifeforms that bond spren, I believe listeners are his target, since the Stormfather lumps all “beasts and subspren” together. He sneers at non-sapient spren and the “beasts” they bond with. Maybe Honor imparted a sense of racial superiority to the Stormfather through his cognitive shadow. Maybe humans personified the Stormfather to embody this attitude. But I think Odium “corrupted” the Stormfather. This is a “hateful” attitude. I believe Odium somehow inserted his Investiture into the Stormfather to effect subtle changes in his makeup. There’s only scant evidence for this. Syl calls the Stormfather “broken,” although that can mean many things. We have examples of voidspren “corrupting” other spren. Brandon says, “many of these spren have that kind of ‘hole’ in them, and that’s what allows Odium to take control of them.” I agree with @zandi that the “Fleet” chapter (WoR, Chapter 59) foreshadows the SLA ending. This also provides some evidence of Odium’s corruption of the Stormfather. I think Kaladin’s race with the “storm” (never identified as a highstorm) is the true duel between Honor’s and Odium’s champion. (I think Dalinar’s belief he’s seen “Odium’s champion” may be wrong.) Kaladin races the storm into Shinovar, where it loses its Investiture (including Odium’s), and becomes "normal" again. I don’t know why Kaladin would have raced the storm to his death and resurrection (assuming this is the ending foreshadowed) unless the race ensured Roshar’s survival. My main point, though, is that the Stormfather expresses an attitude that leads to division and hatred. He expresses Odium’s attitude, not Honor’s. It is the attitude that leads to racial warfare and genocide, as we see on Roshar.

I was thinking about the Unmade a bit, and realized a few things. First, they must use up a huge amount of Investiture. Nergaoul and Moelach have auras that can reach across entire kingdoms. They seem to be around the power level of the Stormfather. And there are at least six of them. That's a lot of power. So I started wondering: What if that was how Odium was trapped in the Rosharan system? He's so Invested in it that he can't leave without giving up a vast amount of power. So, to start with I'll list the facts about the Unmade that we know so far, and explain how they fit in. They're extremely, extremely powerful spren (or sprenlike beings). There are at least six of them. They each have different powers (Moelach seeing the future, Nergaoul causing the Thrill, Sja-anat corrupting spren). They hate humanity. They're implied to be ancient Parshendi who "gave of themselves to destroy" by taking on vast amounts of Odium's power. So, how that fits in. Each of them would hold a large amount of Odium's power, thereby weakening him and forcing him to stay on Roshar. Since there are so many, they wouldn't become the holders of Odium. Basically, a safety precaution. They would also take up more of Odium's power. This is where Odinalsium comes in. When Adonalsium shattered, each of the Shards created its own magic system. Each Shard had different powers. Something very similar is going on here, with the different Unmade. It's possible that the Unmade will become a source of information for how the shattering worked, or at least how the Shards work. This is the Intent seeping in. They were considered "personifications of different types of destruction." They contain different fragments of Odium's personality, similar to the Shards of Adonalsium. However, Odium's personality is composed mostly of hatred, so they don't have as much variation. Nevertheless, they still have different aspects. But the overall Intent remains. This is why Moelach gives glimpses of the future - it's trying to undermine Odium, but has to do so in an Odium-like way. They "gave of themselves to destroy". But to destroy what? It's usually assumed that they wished to destroy humanity. I postulate that they took on the power of Odium, giving up their selves, in order to destroy Odium. A reverse Resolution, almost. The intentions were similar, at least. As you see, this theory fits everything we know about the Unmade. Further, it explains why Odium is the Broken One. Three of sixteen ruled, but now the Broken One reigns. The use of "sixteen" implies that it refers to Shards, and the use of "reigns" implies that it refers to Odium. But Rayse likes his Intent. Rayse/Odium would perhaps be the least broken of the Shards. However, if Odium has had a semi-Adonalsium pulled on him, and the Shard proper has relatively little power, he would certainly be broken. He could still harness the Unmade to Splinter Honor, but would have difficulty leaving the Rosharan system. So, what do you think? Am I a complete nutcase who's making up evidence where there is none? Am I the most brilliant person to have existed since the invention of the wheel? And if I'm wrong, where am I wrong?

We learned from Dalinar's vision that the unmade are of Odium and WOB is that Odium influences humans through the unmade. Nergaoul causes the thrill in men and I am pretty sure he/she/ze is an unmade. Well, we know of an unmade who causes the death rattles, Moeloch. That doesn't mean these visions are lies per say. In fact, we have seen some of them come true in both TWoK and WoR. However, that does not mean knowing these future events is something that will save mankind on Roshar. Seeing the future has already been stated to be from Odium and the Voidbringers as well. Also, there are many stories where hearing the future leads to it, from the Greek tragedy Oedipus Rex to The Kingkiller Chronicles. So maybe Taravangian is not saving the world by killing these poor people in his hospital. Maybe he is learning a possible future that will end Roshar. Thoughts?

So in the first sample chapter for Oathbringer, we see Dalinar during one of his visions. After going to a different spot and staying longer. He sees the following: Later he says: What did Dalinar see in the eyes of the champion and why were they so familiar to him? And why was he more scarred of the champion than the unmade or Odium. I was thinking that it could be a parshendi/voidbringer (they have red eyes, right) but I don't think that that would have have that much of an effect on Dalinar. So who is the champion and why is Dalinar so scarred of him/her?