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  1. FXL3

    List of Oaths?

    Hi all, I had a question about the what we currently know about each of the radiant Oaths. Is there a good resource on what oath we believe each known radiant is on (shallan is wonky but is there a consensus about what oath she's on? What about the non-kaladin windrunners?), what powers are associated with said oath (when does their order grant shardplate, etc), And a timeline of when we think they achieved each oath level? I know some (shallan) are inherently confusing. But I'm also curious about more straightforward oaths- like lopen and sigzil.
  2. KALADIN’S 5TH IDEAL Ok so i have a theory about Kaladin’s 5th ideal and wanted to know what you guys thought. Sorry if its a drop long Just to go through all his ideals let me post them- 1- “Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination.” 2- “I will protect those who cannot protect themselves” 3- “I will protect even those I hate, so long as it is right.” 4- “I accept that there will be those I cannot protect!” Now my train of thought is this: the 1st ideal is a commitment to the lifestyle he’s going to live- a life of putting others before him and being there to help others, and a life of giving up from himself and working on himself. The 2nd ideal is how he plans on doing this and that is that he’s going to protect others, specifically others who cant protect themselves- thereby dedicating his life to being there for others who need him most. the 3rd ideal is a continuation of this- by committing to be there for others, one of the core points of protecting someone else is that you are willing to put the other person before you! Imagine someone wants to punch your friend and you take the hit for them- youre protecting them by putting them before you and taking the heat for them! Protection is not just about when you have the ability to protect them AND protect yourself, it’s about protecting them FULLY! Even at the cost of yourself sometimes! If you are only willing to protect those you like- that’s not called servicing the world- it’s called servicing yourself!! It’s easy to protect something or someone you like, because you’re doing it for yourself also- to keep them around! It’s when you dont like someone and you still protect them, thats when it becomes true service to protecting those who cant protect themselves! so the 3rd ideal is not so much a new concept as much as it is a continuation and reinforcing the 1st two ideals which is a commitment to SERVE AND TO PROTECT!! And in this vain the 4th ideal continues- if the only way you’re willing to protect someone is if they actually make it through then it means you’re putting yourself before them! Cause you’re only willing to protect if you get the satisfaction of saving them, but if you wouldn’t have that satisfaction you aren’t willing to protect. Thats called putting yourself 1st- cause if you truly cared just about protecting the other person it wouldn’t matter if that person ends up dying- if you can make his death easier for him then you will do what you can to protect him from that pain and make it easier for him. That’s what Kaladin’s brother was trying to explain to him- that just because they didnt survive doesn’t mean that Kaladin’s efforts were wasted- they still accomplished a lot- all those happy moments were worth living for even if they don’t last! Because just like you can protect a person fully- so too you can protect them a little- by protecting their emotions or happiness and things like that. So now, here we are at the 5th ideal… i don't think its going to be Kaladin sacrificing himself to save the world because 1stly its waaaayyy too cliche lol but mainly i think its because i feel like thats the easy way out and being a radiant is always about dong the harder thing. It’s so much easier to give up your life to save the world and not have to live through all the pain that is around because you didnt sacrifice yourself. It’s those hero moments where we have a chance to step up to the plate and do something grand- moments like that are easy to do and most people will do it- cause its grandeur, its honor, and its glory! It’s the moments which aren’t what we call a “hero moment” that it takes a real man to step up to the plate and do it! I feel like the 5th ideal will have something to with Kaladin being forced to put himself before others SO THAT he can still be alive to protect other people afterwards! The 5th ideal will be that he SHOULD NOT sacrifice himself, rather, stay alive so that he can be around to help everyone afterwards- even though doing so will make him hate himself!! Because he knows that he put himself 1st before others- that is the 5th ideal- to understand that sometimes he needs to put himself first SO THAT HE CAN THEREFOR afterwards be able to put others before him!!! I’m sorry if I’m not being so clear here but to put it simply- 1st he commits to working on himself and helping the world at large 2nd he commits to help by protecting others 3rd he commits to protecting even when he doesn’t want to- because he committed to put others before himself 4th he commits to protecting even when he wont get the “hero satisfaction” of saving them- because protecting others is about doing for them not for yourself 5th he commits to the ultimate putting others before himself which is the knowledge that sometimes the only way to put others before yourself is by doing something which by nature is putting yourself before them! I tried my best to explain my thoughts sorry if it’s not the clearest… what do you guys think?! All thoughts and comments greatly appreciated!!!!
  3. I was wondering, if a non-Radiant character in the SA were to start living the ideals of the knights Radiant and was to actually get to the point where they would be fully capable of swearing each Oath of a particular order, and then they Bonded a Spren of that order, would they be able to belt out Oaths and become a fully powered Radiant since they had prepared for it beforehand? It may be that you could argue that their Spiritweb would be too "healed" or uncracked at that point for a Spren to Bond them, but it seems like basically everyone has some cracks in the Spiritweb form somthing. I bet that it would be possible, and totally awesome to see something like this happen on-screen.
  4. Hi guys, have been away from the SA for a while and recently wanted to put out ideas I've only been revisiting. Feel free to comment on what you like, I've only put so much depth into this but I felt I wouldn't get it out in time so here goes: I believe that we know one of the Dustbringer ideals already. Some people are familiar with the following quote provided by Sando: "I will stand when others fall" I believe this is a Dustbringer ideal and I would back up this claim with the third ideal Dalinar spoke about: “I will take responsibility for what I have done. If I must fall, I will rise each time a better man. ” The wording fall comes up in both of these oaths. For context, it has been theorised by some that the oaths Dalinar are speaking are closely tied to the "Honor Arc" of the Herald wheel. Quick Side Note: As for the second ideal, I believe it is based on the Windrunner order. “I will unite instead of divide. I will bring men together. ” Reason: The wording 'unite' makes me think of adhesion. Not very in-depth, more of a hot take. The best way to protect people is to put them with other people so that their strengths can cover their weaknesses. And the best way for a group of people to protect each other is to appoint someone that is the most capable of leadership. It's also no secret that the next book that will come out at the time of this post is about the Skybreakers so I'm trying to do a flimsy process of elimination. That's when he will swear the fourth. Side Note over: Reasons why I think the quote/ideal is related to the Releasers. Most people attribute it to a Willshaper or Stoneward because of the wording and how the orders are Resolute and Dependable. I believe that bravery is actually the most associated with it. "I will stand when others fall", you think of that in a physical sense but you need to consider the figurative aspect. Standing up for others or especially yourself is courageous, it makes you brave. People will continue to fall and fall and cowardly avoid the difficulties they face but someone who stands in the name of adversity is the ideal of bravery. Responsibility- The word responsibility is used in Dalinar's third ideal and we know since RoW that Dustbringers are themed towards Responsibility - SN: A fire-based spren made an appearance in the same book of the reveal if that counts for anything. Risk takers - I believe that since the order is filled with people who are strong-willed and like to crack things open to see how they work. That along with the self-control theme means that they would deal with a lot of risk management. I actually looked up a bit of engineering risk management and it's a very interesting field I won't dare try to butcher. The point is, with the great amount of power they wield, they will inevitably cause more damage than they may have intended. Learning from your mistakes is a great way to mitigate said risks. 1. Dustbringer Ideals 2nd Ideal of Bravery - "I will stand when others fall in the face of danger" 3rd Ideal of Accountability? - "I will take responsibility for what I have done", "I will make own up to my mistakes". 4th Ideal of Service ?" - "I will stand by " " no matter the direness. 5th Ideal of the Guardian - "I am Self Control...?" 2nd Ideal - The radiant will usually start out as someone who will conquer their fear, I like to imagine those in this order make have caused some irrevocable or deep damage against something or someone and they want to make amends. They are risk-takers and I also believe they become initiates like the WRs and SBs as this is arguably the most dangerous order in the arc and the entire circle save the Bondsmiths. Therefore I don't think it would be a stretch to find out that they get their shard blades here. My reasoning for this: I believe they would honestly classify a shard blade as less dangerous than their surges. We know that their orders gets their surges later than most. It could be a test to see how they use their shard blade and if they use it to do more damage than is necessary. 3rd Ideal - I believe this is where the person must answer for a past misstep or mistake they've taken recently. They will need to come to terms with answering for their mistake. I think maybe carrying out a sentence or repairing something the best they can. We also know that the Division surge has been awarded here from knowledge of Malata and if we were to use her as an example, precision and staying within limits have been achieved if not mostly achieved. 4th ideal - I notice that the orders of the "Honor Arc - Windrunner, Skybreaker, Dustbringer" are hierarchical due to them dealing with power, both physical and political. Here they receive Abrasion which means they get access to explosives and pyrotechnics now. They also get their plate here most likely as well but I'll talk more about that a bit later. They are in positions with a lot of power so that means they have to dedicate themselves to something other or run the risk of using them for selfish destructive reasons. The scale has now tilted in favor of obedience than bravery. 5th ideal - They are in complete control of all their surges and themselves. Don't have much to go on for this. Anyways, you guys get the point I'm trying to make More Theories: Dustbringer Plate Uses: Propel themselves with their palms forward for increased speed They could use the fingers on their gauntlets like cutting tools? Self-Explosion...? Duties: I believe that 'generally' radiants followed their patron's role and Chana was known as the guardians. They dealt with threats to people's safety in what way they could: Battlefield - Chana was known for being quick so it's no surprise they could glide across the battlefield as mobile or stationary artillery Settlement Defenses - They could easily fire rays of heat from atop fortifications Domestic disaster - They could act as emergency services in the case of things like a collapsed building. Chana is also well-known for Here is also a pretty good representation of what I think the surges would look like: I might add more in the future but for now, this is as much as I can scrunge up for now. Thanks for being patient enough to entertain my ramblings and please add what you think might be more logical or if I didn't go into something in-depth enough. Edit: Another interpretation of "I shall stand where others fall" is that those who are falling are the victims of some mishap or crime and the Dustbringer is standing for them or by them in some way.
  5. In SP4, Nomad talks about is oaths ending, being forgotten. There is a death rattle that I think my elude to how oaths are ended, like a reverse oath. In particular, I think it might be the words used by Sigzil to break his Windrunner bond. "The death is my life" - the constant running from the Night Brigade consuming his life. "The strength becomes my weakness" - his taking up the dawnshard? Super powerful, but causes side-effects. "The journey has ended" - his time with his honor spren must end, along with the oaths. Any thoughts?
  6. Is kaladin an unbound surgebinder? He was using his surges and stormlight before he said the first ideal and as far as I can recall he was the only one to do so aside from the windrunner squire. Maybe this is part of the reason he was able to be awake and use his basic lashings in urithiru, he was able to use them before saying his ideals.
  7. Hey everyone! Here’s my latest Cosmere piece! Contains spoilers for SA 1-4. Stick around after the credits below to get the backstory on this song. Lead vocals, piano, acoustic guitar, drums, bass, trombone choir, strings, male choir: Joe Byerly Syl's vocals, female choir: Sharon Byerly Mixing, mastering, electric guitars, percussion and choir VST's: Infamoti - https://bit.ly/infamoti Artwork: Pam Hage - Queen of Eagles https://www.pamhage.com/ Download links: WAV: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Zh1kI7D7fJKCmyVipE6h1urJ_1l93Eim/view?usp=sharing MP3: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xQidEmb0VikAGtWotlBiUyJzNwGvbCKI/view?usp=sharing _____________ To be honest, when I first read The Way of Kings in 2013, I loved but didn't understand Kaladin. He seemed... beyond me, somehow. As his backstory unfolded, I realized how little we had in common at that time in my life; I settled into a good place where I really enjoyed watching him grow and change, accepting that I could invest myself in a character's story without having to fully understand his experiences. In the summer of 2019, my wife became pregnant for the first time in our marriage. We had been married 7 years, 6 of which had been spent trying to grow our family. Weeks later, that child died in the womb from unknown causes. I suddenly understood a little of Kaladin's pain; I was unable to protect my unborn child. We struggled for a year, wrestling with ourselves and God, days blurring into weeks, then months, as we sank into depression. We were surrounded by people who loved, held and heard us, but it took a long time to even begin to move forward from the silence, the grief and the loss. As we slowly crept out into the light again, we chose to trust that continuing the journey as unashamedly broken people was better than pulling the covers over our heads for the rest of our lives. We went to counseling, examined our faith on deeper levels, and spent lots of time with friends and family, sharing what had happened to us and soaking up the encouragement and love of others. In the fall of 2020, months before the birth of our daughter Jane, the chorus of Windrunner began to take shape. I wrote this song to help me move forward in my journey; I hope it helps others as much as it helped me.
  8. I am wondering to which extent the Knights Radiant can be part of an organization or civil society. They are bound to their oaths and specifically to their interpretation of their oath. So suppose you are a Windrunner and you consider a condemned prisoner innocent. What now? You must protect those who cannot protect themselves. Is that a court of law used proper procedures a reason to not follow through your own judgement? If you are a Skybreaker, of course, it would be. But that is exactly what you are not. Are there more conflicts of this sort? Or am I imagining things?
  9. Yesterday, I decided to try to make my best guess as to the 5th Oath of the Windrunners. The Second and Third are about when to protect, that is, protecting those who can't protect themselves, even if you hate them. The Fourth is, in part, when to stop protecting, or to accept that sometimes you can't. My thought is that the Fifth is when to stop protecting altogether, to let them protect themselves. I don't have much rationale behind this, just that, to me, it seems like the most appropriate next step. Thoughts? I am looking for support if you agree, or alternate ideas otherwise.
  10. Dalinar Kholin bonded the Stormfather, becoming one of the three Bondsmiths. Part of his oath was that he wouldn’t force the Stormfather into becoming a Shardblade, while another was that he would lead his forces to oppose Odium and defeat the Voidbringers. While in Vedenar, he felt Nergaoul, the Unmade that is commonly known as the Thrill. He recognized the Thrill and immediately ran away so that he wouldn’t fall under its influence. In order for him to escape he had to force the Stormfather into becoming a blade. Was Dalinar justified in forcing the Stormfather into becoming a blade? (For any curious, this question was sparked in my mind when the honorspren were questioning Adolin at his trial.)
  11. This post recapitulates a recent Discord debate on this topic. In honor of the late Justice Ginsburg, contrarian me dissents from the majority view. The issue concerns the meaning of the WoR Chapter 42 Epigraph: The debate asks these questions: What did Ishar do? Who did he do it to? How and when did the Oaths arise? COMPETING NARRATIVES Consensus Ishar “thrust organization” upon Surgebinders but did not impose the Oaths. Oaths inhere in each Order’s spren. Surgebinding required five Oaths even before Ishar. Within an Order each Knight and their spren agree on an Oath’s specific wording. “Perception is a big part of the Oaths.” Ishar’s “precepts and laws” were not magical but a set of mundane rules established for the Knights’ and each Order’s self-governance. Ishar threatened to kill any Surgebinder who wouldn’t accept his “precepts and laws.” Rebuttal Ishar’s Ashyn experience taught him how dangerous unchecked magical power can be. Recognizing Nahel bondable spren mimic Honorblades, Ishar insisted on an “organization” that mimicked the Oathpact. He created the Orders and imposed the First Oath, “Life Before Death...” (IMO, the Oathpact’s Oath). I think Ishar, perhaps with Shardic help, threatened to “destroy each and every one” to obtain their agreement: First the spren by forcibly breaking their bond while the Surgebinder lived, and then the former Surgebinder. Killing spren stops them bonding someone new. Killing former Surgebinders stops other like-minded spren from attempting to bond them. Honor wanted Dalinar to see the Nohadon vision for a reason. Alkavish’s revolt showed Nohadon “not all spren are as discerning as honorspren.” A single Oath’s grant of full power to humans didn’t stop the pre-Desolation carnage. With so few humans left, spren would have to wait many human generations before they could return to the Physical Realm. Nohadon may have been a Bondsmith. Perhaps with Shardic help and “Way of Kings” inspiration, Nohadon persuaded each spren Order to add four unique Oaths and permanently change the bond. Spren might willingly accept Nohadon’s solution to avoid another spren-wide catastrophe. Five Oaths incrementally ratchet up the Knight’s power as the Knight, through epiphany and self-scrutiny, attains each ideal. Oaths mark that ideal’s attainment. Incremental power growth minimizes the damage a traitorous Knight can do. ARGUMENTS Consensus What Did Ishar Do? Ishar did not impose Oaths. Oaths don’t create “organization.” Even within an Order each Knight and their spren agree on their own version of the Oath “though the concept is the same.” Malata proves Oaths don’t constrain Knight behavior. Malata and Spark agree she made proper Oaths and is deservedly Radiant. Yet she and Spark spy on Dalinar and the other Knights and actively sabotage their plans. To quote one Discord post, “the Oaths don't stop people from misusing their powers, so long as they can justify it and the spren agree.” If Oaths don’t “organize” Surgebinders, Ishar’s “precepts and laws” must involve some non-magical change. Consensus believes Ishar created the rules for the Knights Radiant and each Order’s self-governance. They cite the Knights’ execution of Kazilah as an example of those rules’ enforcement (WoR Chapter 51 Epigraph). Consensus also argues even a powerful Bondsmith like Ishar can’t change a magic system. They believe imposing Oaths changes Surgebinding. Shards themselves don’t actively create magic systems. Magic systems are the unplanned result of Shard Investiture in a planet. Except for Leras and Sazed, we don’t know any Shards that changed a magic system. How can a non-Shard make these changes? Who Did Ishar Do It To? Consensus reads the WoR Chapter 42 Epigraph (quoted at the top) to mean that Ishar organized and imposed his precepts and laws solely on the human Surgebinders and threatened only them with death. How and When Did the Oaths Arise? Consensus believes Oaths arise from the nature of each spren Order. They cite the diversity of Oaths among spren Orders as evidence. The variability of Oath wording within an Order further proves that Oaths arise from the spren themselves. Consensus believes Surgebinding required five Oaths even before Ishar. Rebuttal What Did Ishar Do? I believe Nahel bondable spren evolved as personifications of the Heralds’ Divine Attributes. They are attracted to humans who manifest the Primary Divine Attribute. Oaths mark the Knight’s progress to the Secondary Divine Attribute. At the Fifth Oath, the Knight and their spren merge Spiritual aspects and the Knight now personifies their spren’s Divine Attributes. I agree with Consensus that All Oaths arise from the nature of Nahel bondable spren. Spren grant power to anyone who fulfills their Oaths. Spark grants Malata power because she is Brave. He chose her from among other Brave people because she too wants to settle grudges. Malata will progress through her Oaths as she gains insight into the Dustbringer Divine Attributes of Brave and Obedient. Nothing about that process mandates who Malata should be Brave for or Obedient to. Shards don’t intentionally create magic systems. IMO, these points of agreement don’t compel Consensus’ conclusions. Oaths are natural to Nahel spren because they grow directly from the Divine Attributes the spren personifies. That doesn’t make Oaths a necessary part of the Nahel bond. Syl and Kaladin show Oaths are not necessary to form an incipient bond, at least for honorspren. She grants Kaladin power before he vows the First Oath at the Tower. Other Orders differ on when to grant power. Syl and Kaladin, IMO, prove Oaths regulate power but are not necessary to enter a bond and grant power. No wonder seeing human Surgebinders scared Ishar. Unregulated, unorganized full Radiants without any understanding of their powers or the deeper meaning of their ideals? Ishar rightly feared Rosharan Apocalypse. I believe Ishar organized the Orders and imposed the First Oath but not the others. Who Did Ishar Do It To? I believe Ishar threatened spren, not mortal Surgebinders. Spren initiate the Nahel bond. Killing mortals wouldn’t stop spren from trying to bond other mortals through whom to experience the Physical Realm. To end human Surgebinding altogether, Ishar needed to break each spren’s bond while their Surgebinder was still alive. He probably also killed the human Surgebinder after the bond breaks to stop them attracting another spren. Faced with eternal mindlessness and mortal death, spren and Surgebinder agreed to accept Ishar’s Oath. Consensus claims Ishar’s Oath changes Surgebinding. They believe only a Shard can change a magic system, and Ishar is no Shard despite his godly ambitions. IIRC, we have no evidence a powerful magic user like Ishar can’t change a magic system. Adding the First Oath as an Initiation condition seems slight compared to Sazed’s Spiritual changes to snapping. Bondsmiths Connect things. The first and (until Dalinar?) most powerful Bondsmith should have some say in the Nahel bonds’ terms. Spren capitulation shows they thought Ishar could break a Nahel bond. If Ishar’s own power was insufficient to the task, Honor could have given Ishar what he lacked. The Stormfather says Honor shared Ishar’s fears. Notum hints Tanavast’s death makes spren less trustworthy, as if Tanavast himself enforced spren compliance. How and When Did the Oaths Arise? I think Ishar imposed the generic First Oath when Surgebinders began to appear. IMO, the Order-specific Oaths followed Alkavish’s revolt. Like Ishar before him, Nohadon somehow secured spren agreement to change the terms of the Nahel bond. The spren themselves were likely appalled at the human losses. Too many spren lost the human bond that Connected them to the Physical Realm. With so few humans left, spren would have to wait many human generations before they could return to the Physical Realm. Spren might willingly accept Nohadon’s solution to avoid another spren-wide catastrophe. Nohadon’s Way of Kings outlines each Order’s ideals. Perhaps that and Shardic mediation inspired spren compliance. CONCLUSION There’s the debate. Now vote...
  12. Not all Skybreakers swear to Nale. Some follow other people, others follow an abstract principle. Sheer statistics make sure that some of them will not deem the Singer legitimate owners of Roshar. Some must just see them as escaped slaves to be returned to owners or their heirs or executed as rebels. Nale's attitude at least looks like that a Skybreaker must not attack another Skybreaker over judgements, only over actions. So they weren't eliminated right away. It's been a year. Where are they? Have they been killed in small clashes? Are they hiding away for a good moment to act? Are they waging guerilla war being reverse Robin Hoods hunting down escaped slaves? Are they waiting for Dalinar or a council of Knights Radiant to formally rescind the decision to abandon Urithiru?
  13. The title is pretty self explanatory. I want to know which was first, the Radiant spren or the Oaths. Now, we know that the spren created surgebinding trying to mimic the honorblades. We also know that the surgebinders later organized themselves into orders based on the heralds. Each order built their oaths on the virtues their chosen herald displayed. Now, this is where it gets interesting. The Oaths perfectly fit the characteristics of that orders spren, which perfectly fit the attributes of that orders herald. So, back to my original question, which was first, the Oath or the spren? If it was the spren then there are a couple of things that don't make sense. Why these particular spren? The Bondsmith spren make sense as they seem to be much larger then all the others, but why Ashspren but not Firespren? Also, it seems far too coincidental that the power the spren give and the ideals that they follow fit perfectly in with the heralds. Especially when Brandon has said you can in fact bond any spren, but the benefits of doing so would be less then that of a radiant spren. I think that the Oaths created the spren that we know today as radiant spren. I believe the ability to form the nahel bond strengthened a certain type of spren's intelligence. This would explain why some spren that you wouldn't think should be more intelligent then others are. Lets go back to the example of Ashspren. Ash doesn't seem to be a deeper idea or a more thought about concept, and yet ashspren have a higher intelligence then many other spren like rainspren or firespren. The creation of the Oaths and the orders of Radients by the Nahel bond would've granted the spren a higher intelligence and perhaps it also gave them more of an alignment with the oaths that they are bound to. This explains both why these spren are more intelligent and why they perfectly align with the heralds ideals and powers.
  14. Me and my friends were recently talking about the Knights Radiant ideals and started speculating on how the oaths are sworn, specifically Windrunners. When Kaladin is progressing in oaths he’s actively in positions to protect people and face these ideals. What about a person who say is a house servant and starts to bond an Honorspren and isn’t always in life or death situations trying to save people? Do they just passively start to understand the words and naturally say them or do they just stay stagnant and not progress?
  15. If you wish to become a knight radiant speak again the hallowed oaths Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination
  16. @Argent's “The Magics of Roshar” topic speculates that the Fifth Oath fully merges Knights Radiant and their spren. Further speculation suggests a Fifth Oath Radiant becomes the equivalent of a Herald with Honorblade who can pull Investiture directly from the Spiritual Realm. I generally agree with this speculation. @Jofwu on that thread asks this question: The answer may lie in what Nale tells Szeth: Nale says the Oathpact is “balanced.” I read him to mean there’s only one Herald per divine attribute. Fifth Oath Radiants could upset that balance and weaken the Oathpact. The “measures we took” seems a reference to Taln. Ishar fears Fifth Oath Radiants might somehow disable Taln’s Desolation defense. While Honor lived, he could decline to accept Radiant Fifth Oaths. The Stormfather, who replaced Honor, has yet to decline any oath. Nale kills incipient Radiants to ensure they never rival Heralds. Ishar’s threatening letter to Dalinar fits this concern. Ishar doesn’t want a rival Bondsmith wielding the “power of Connection.” Crazy is as crazy does.
  17. Created based on discussion on other thread. Does Shallan have her plate yet, and has she had it at any points in the past?
  18. I made this for a school assignment The Plight of the Radiants Saving a land that is not theirs; Protecting from it’s rightful heirs; Is it we who are the just in this endeavor; Can we truly protect this world forever; Honor tells us we must fight; Our position now makes us right; For who can blame a child for his father’s acts; Does he tell us this so we do not forsake our pacts; We destroyed the world that was ours; Will we not repeat to do the same with our powers; Will we ever be granted to pay back what owe; For who is the fiend, us or our foe;
  19. I can't believe I didn't notice this earlier. Nale is a Skybreaker of the fifth Oath. If the Skybreakers get Plate as part of their Radiant progression, Nale should have a nice shiny set of living Shardplate.
  20. Currently, we know that most orders, if not all of them receive their blades at the third oath and their plate at the 4th. The main reason for this seems that they are trying to prevent the radiant from damaging the spren like Kaladin did to Syl. But then I started thinking about the stonewards. Their attributes are resolve, strength and dependability. I think that means that they are less likely to kill their spren. I think it is also likely that they get their plate and blade at earlier oaths than the other orders. That might be their resonance.
  21. Do we know for certain which level of Radiant Dalinar is by the end of Oathbringer? Ever since I read it, I've been under the impression that he's currently of the third ideal (assuming that he didn't skip straight to the fifth with his 'I am Unity' proclamation), but someone on the Stormlight Archive Facebook group recently claimed that there was a Word of Brandon in which he said that in fact Dalinar is only a level two by the end of Oathbringer, but the WoB in question was only a paraphrase. Is anyone who knows the WoBs better than me able to clarify this?
  22. The Fourth Ideals of all orders that follow the regular oath system, is about when to stop following your ideals. This Windrunner has trouble understanding the fourth oath because it goes against protecting. (Note: The next sentence only works when assuming the elsecaller oaths are about being logical and Jasnah swearing four out of five oaths) Ivory tells Jasnah that she did the right thing when saving Renarin, even when it goes against the logic of the known fact they known. Renarin is bonded to a corrupted spren and is probably using voidbinding. The skybreakers Ideal of Crusade(4th Oath) can teach the Skybreaker when to have compassion on those that break the law, which they need for the fifth oath, Ideal of Law. The windruuner need to know when not to protect, so he can protect others. Jasnah needs to know that logic, do to lack of not knowing everything, can't be the only deciding factor. The Radiants need restraints.
  23. Hey Everyone! I had to join the forum for this one specific purpose. What do you think the essence of the Bondsmith ideals are? Like the actual meaning of the oath that helps define what they will swear as their own oath? We know from the Windrunner oaths that they are similar but not quite the same. Almost like they are personal to each person but have an "Ideal" behind them. Hence calling them an Ideal. So what about the bondsmith oaths that Dalinar has already swore. "I will unite instead of divide. I will bring men together." -This almost feels straight forward that it is about bonding. Bringing things together and being solid in your ideals and position. But i could be wrong. "I will take responsibility for what I have done. If I must fall, I will rise each time a better man." -I wanted to say Progression. Improvement. Or even Repentant. Accepting responsibility and becoming better indicates a need to continuously improve. Recognizing that you make mistakes and move forward. So what are you thoughts on this? I would love to understand what the essence of the bondsmith oaths are.
  24. Sorry clickbait. But seriously what do you guys think are possible Willshaper oaths. I have these so far: Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination. I will be foolish no matter what. I will be stupid, and get high on adrenaline for all my days. I shall cleanse the non-fools of there non- foolishness. I AM ANOYING. (If it isn’t clear, I’m joking and don’t actually think this of the willshapers)
  25. So I dunno I was just thinking about it because it's been bothering me. It was a really nice curveball from Brandon, because we all kind of assumed he was going to say it. Then he didn't. I think we have enough information on screen to eek out the fourth ideal. I don't think it's about protecting. I think it's about killing. "I can't lose him, but.....oh, Almighty...I can't save him." "I will kill the ones that......" or "I will kill those who endanger humanity" or even like Szeth "I will lead for Dalinar Kholin" - If he said that and he is sure Dalinar is about to turn the dial up to evil 11, he just can't do it. He couldn't say the words because he knew if he did he would presumably have to kill Dalinar, and he couldn't do it. In part one Kaladin and Syl have a conversation about morality and who is right and who is wrong. The Fourth Ideal I believe for windrunners has to do with choosing a side. Just like Szeth's third ideal. Kaladin can't choose. Just like the windrunner crystal. They first 3 ideals have to do with protecting, and they have to know all the parshendi aren't bad.
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