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Do you guys think its possible that their are other orders of knights radiant that cross different surgebindings from the 10 we know? Like combine Gravitation and Adhesion? or would they have a new power? Would this affect the other Spren's surges?

So I’ve been bouncing this idea around for a while, and finally decided to type it up. So we know that Pattern bonded Shallan when she was younger, to the point that she could summon her shardblade (to kill her mum). After this she regresses somehow, possibly due to her self-forgetting stuff. Another example we know much less about is Tien, Kaladin’s younger brother. We don’t know a lot about what he did in Amaram’s army, but it is implied that he had reached a point in his Ideals that caught the attention of the Skybreakers enough that Nale felt he needed to be eliminated. I personally think he was at the first Ideal, but have little proof to back that up. So: what are the common threads in these two young lives? My theory: not their own lies, but the lies of those around them. We know that (Pattern at least) Cryptics are very curious about humans. Lyrin was hiding the gem theft, and we know that this caused a lot of strife in Hearthstone. Shallan’s mother was involved somehow with the Skybreakers before her death, and Lin was dealing with political issues (or was that just after Shallan’s mum died?) as well as dealing with debts. Also maybe the Ghostbloods. We know that Pattern is interested in the lies of people besides Shallan. Shallan and Tien are both “the light” of their respective households. The Lightweavers have been described as the “spiritual sustainers” of the Radiants. They are both artistic, and very curious about the world around them. If Cryptics are the spren of natural forces and the laws of nature, the interests of the spren and the knight would align in this. A few other parallels I don’t think are relevant: Shallan and Tien each have depressed older brothers. They are both interested in the creatures around them. They like gentle rains. Please point out anything that I’ve missed!

Let's make teams of Radiants from other franchises! Silmarillion: Discworld: Order of the Stick

I have spent quite a bit of time recently trying to imagine how the various orders of Radiants would function on the battlefield. Of course we are frequently told that most of the Radiants were not warriors, however the Desolations were desperate narrowly fought global wars that would have seen many situations where everyone was required to focus on military affairs. If a people are in a situation where (as I am confident they often were) where spears are put into the hands of 12 year olds, then I can be quite confident that every single knight with power armor, deific swords and magical powers would have long since been called to fight. Windrunners- I see this order as the closest thing that the armies of honor had to cavalry. On ancient battlefields cavalry was often used as a shock force. The mobility provided by horses and chariots allowed a division of (often the most skilled and equipped) troops to slam into an enemy where they were weakest. Of course we have seen that the powers of the Windrunners can easily transport both themselves and others around a battlefield, and we know that the Windrunners were the closest to “professional” soldiers of the Radiants. 2 or 3 Windrunners with 60-100 Windrunner squires carrying 100 or so of the other best “normal” troops in the army would have made quite the mobile sledgehammer. Skybreakers- I see the order of the Skybreakers doing many of the same things as the Windrunners, simply on a smaller scale. The fact that the Skybreakers spend most of their time as law enforcement, rather than soldiers and their relative lack of squires would make them more inclined to fight in smaller bands than the Windrunners. I see a small band of Skybreakers and squires flying around the battlefield raining down Division and bringing “Honor’s Justice” to high priority targets like a particularly problematic Fused or squadron of Regals. I also see the Skybreakers as the order most practiced at slaying Thunderclasts. Dustbringers- Well I don’t think I know enough about the Dustbringers to really form an opinion about them yet. Edgedancers- I see the Edgedancers as the Radiant’s medics, using Abrasion to zip around the battlefield distributing Regrowth and other supplies. I also see Edgedancers as useful in a siege situation; using progression to help grow edible crops as a supplemental food source to soulcasting. Truthwatchers- I find it difficult to place the Truthwatchers as we don't know that much about them but I imagine them filling a role somewhere between the Edgedancers and Elsecallers. Lightweavers- I think it is uncontroversial to suggest that the Lightweavers often served as spies, assassins, and saboteurs. Unlike the Skybreakers who I see swooping down to cut the enemy commander in two in the middle of the battle, I see the Lightweavers as the reason that the enemy army arrives to the battlefield with poisoned supplies, inoperable siege machines, their troops receiving incorrect orders and their reinforcements delayed. Elsecallers- I see the Elsecallers as the primary tacticians and weapons designers of the Radiants. I imagine they would spend the most time at the planning table drawing maps, accounting supplies (and refilling the stocks through soulcasting) and perhaps preparing countermeasures against the enemy’s less conventional threats. The exact line between their roles and those of the Truthwatchers are unclear to me. Willshapers- As with the Dustbringers, I do not feel like I have enough information to speculate. Stonewards- This order are the followers of the Herald of War. I see their role as being interspersed amongst the common infantry of the Radiant’s armies. Unlike the Windrunners who I see as directly leading the most elite regiments, the Stonewards would be standing with the weakest regiments creating stone earthworks, inspiring cohesion, and generally bearing the agonies of the soldiery. Bondsmiths- I think that Dalinar is a poor example of the traditional role of the Bondsmiths. While they might often serve as diplomats and emissaries. I think that they spent much of their time as personal advisors to the rest of the Radiants, helping them grow in their oaths and surges. I imagine that on the battlefield that the Bondsmiths would float around a provide support and perhaps powerups to the other Radiants in their times of most need. Thoughts? Tib

Two Spren types/SHARDPLATE theory Ok so I have a theory that eacg Radiant order has two different types of Spren. The first one is one of the ten higher types of Spren, which forms the Nahel-bond and once the Radiant swears the third Ideal of his/her order, can turn into a Shardblade. The second type of Spren is one of the lesser Spren. My theory is that once the Radiant swears the fourth oath, these lesser Spren form into that person’s Shardplate. Which explains why Sanderson has said that Shardplate isn’t as invested as Shardblade, it’s made up of weaker Spren then Shardblades. This theory is backed up by the fact that when Kaladin was about to swear the fourth ideal of the Windrunners (I am aware he didn’t) hundreds of windspren where spinning around him. And when he said to Syl that he couldn’t swear the oath, he apologized to Syl and the WINDSPREN. This theory is backed up further as throughout Oathbringer the closer he got to swearing it the more windspren appeared in Shadesmar around him. So I think it might work something like this: Windrunners: windspren Bondsmiths: gloryspren Elsecallers: logicspren Willshapers: intoxicationspren (JK) Lightweavers: creationspren Edgedancers: lifespren Skybreakers: ???? Truthwatchers: ???? Stonewards: ???? Dustbringers: flamespren With this in mind, think off the various statements about Spren throughout the series. No Spren in Shinovar: this could mean that no Radiants lived here, so no lesser Spren needed to be there to form into Shardplate. Logicspren only common in Urithiru: this could be where most Elsecallers lived, as I can totally see all the scholars hiding away in some hidden corridor somewhere. Windspren super common in Alethkar: we know as a fact that most Windrunners came from and lived in that area. If someone could confirm this at I signing for me, that would be great. (Ps. I want props for this theory).

So, by far the most thorough vetting of who should get access to phenomenal cosmic power is to be found in the system of Surgebinding, those who became the Order of the Knights Radiant. We know that Honor created the Honorblades and gave them to his Heralds. We know that Ishar had a major hand in the creation of the Oathpact, which is why he is called the Binder of Gods. We know that he "thrust organization upon [surgebinder]" when he learned of their access to the Surges. He hoped that the Knights Radiant would help preserve humanity and its knowledge during the Desolations, and help rebuild civilization after the Decisions. He became the patron Herald of the Order of Bondsmiths. We know that spren recreated the powers granted by the Honorblades. Honor had no hand in this and was surprised. So... Who created the Ideals? We know that wielding Honorblades does not seem to require any oaths as we see with Szeth. So it's not inherent to the system of Investiture itself. So did the spren create the basis of the Ideals of the Knights they were to bond? Did Ishar craft the binding oaths so that the Surgebinders were generally chosen based on personal merit instead of happenstance and had to act within a structure? Did Honor craft the Ideals of the Knights Radiant? And if he did, Cultivation probably had a hand in it too... The themes of bonding, swearing oaths, personal growth meshes so well with their Intent Did the first Bondsmiths create the Ideals? Do we have any mentions or hints in the books? Any WoBs?

Bondsmiths: Jon Snow, Daenerys Targaryen, Jaime Lannister. Windrunners: Ned Stark, Rob Stark,Caitlyn Stark, the Blackfish , Brienne. Lightweavers: Sansa Stark, Varus the spider, Cierse Lannister. Truthwatchers: Samwell Tarly, Marwyn the mage. Dustbringers: Arya Stark, the Hound, Stone heart, Robert Baratheon, Gendry Baratheon. Skybreakers: Mormont, Lord Commander Momont, Stannis, the onion knight. Elsecallers: Brandon Stark, Tyrion Lannister, the red woman. Edgedancers: Dondarrion, Thoros of myr. Willshapers: The Red Viper, Tommen Baratheon, Rickard Stark. Stonewards: Ser Barristan Selmy. Any thoughts?

So I think I understand the reasoning behind wanting to abolish the knights radiant. The reasons being that Honor was crazy, and saying they would destroy roshar, they lobotomized the parshmen, then found out humanity were the original voidbringers. However, is there any reason why the knights radiant wouldn't try to make a deal with their spren to stop forming bonds with humans? If they could not break there bonds without killing their spren why not make a pact saying. "After we die, you stay in shadesmar, do not bond with anymore humans." The reason I bring this up is that they are bonded and have deep relationship with their spren. I feel like the spren would potentially understand that surge bonding is dangerous, especially with Honor raving about it. Wouldn't the knights radiant would have a hard time talking about potentially killing their spren without trying to negotiate with them at all?

Theory: Could it be that the eye colors that appear among the rosharan people stem from the knights radiant? Being as- at least on earth- violet, grey, and yellow eyes don't occur naturally, it seems likely that they would have some sort of supernatural origin. Additionally, from the fact that when Kaladin summons Syl his eyes change color into an extra light blue, it would seem that each order of radiants would have a similar effect but each order would have its own eye color (perhaps corresponding to their polestone)?

Based on the last few chapters of Oathbringer, in which Adolin learns his shardblade's name (Mayalaran) and actually manages to bypass the ten heartbeats in order to summon the blade, I have come to the (potentially incorrect) conclusion that Adolin is very close to "reviving" Mayalaran, similarly to how Kaladin "revived" Syl in Words of Radiance. If and when Adolin "revives" Mayalaran, what type of spren will Mayalaran be? What order will Adolin wind up as? I personally think that Adolin will either be a Willshaper or Stoneward (only because these two orders are currently unrepresented in the stormlgiht archive,) or a Windrunner, due to his (somewhat hidden) emotional connection to Kaladin. While Renarin is a member of bridge four, one could argue, based on certain events in Words of Radiance, that Adolin is actually more attatched to Kaladin then Renarin is. I say this because after Adolin's disadvantage duel, where Kaladin jumps in to help and winds up in jail, Adolin demands for him to be let out, and, when he fails, resorts to locking himself up with Kaladin next door, saying that Kaladin hadn't done anything that he hadn't done. This is also in line with Windrunner oaths, although one could argue that it is more similar to something an Edgedancer would do. Please reply with your own personal theories, or even hopes, for what order Adolin will wind up as.

Ok, so I saw this Magic: the gathering card, and the flavor text sounds like it could be Kaladin’s next oath.

Let me get this straight. In Mistborn: A Secret History, Hoid takes a bit of Lurasium from the Well of Ascension. If Wit on Roshar is Hoid, then he also has a Cryptic, which could mean that he is now a Lightweaver. And then, in the final chapter of Oathbringer, it says something about repressing his healing, which hints at him being a Returned from Warbreaker. How much damage would that much Investiture close to your soul do to you? And how would his Connections in the Spiritual Realm be affected?

This quote, one of the OB epigraphs, obviously indicates the Radiant who used this gemstone had some ability to see into the future. From looking at other epigraphs (that will not be cited here for convenience), I can assume that the gemstone indicates the order of Radiant. Those claiming to be Stonewards always use topaz, for instance. Emerald is the gemstone associated with Truthwatcher. Glys is the only Truthwatcher spren we know of that has been corrupted to grant the Knight the ability to see the future. I believe this message was from one of Glys' former Radiants.

One of my favorite songs is Unpack Your Heart by Phillip Phillips. After reading Oathbringer, and thinking on the rest of the series, I was able to come up with a scene that matched just about every scene. Examples: "Bring your secrets," --Shallan in a Lightwoven replica of her room "Bring your scars"--A single shot of Kaladin's brands, and so on. Thoughts? I just thought it fit well with the Knights Radiant as a whole.

Parshendi. Listeners. Singers. All the same? When'd the names "listeners" and "singers" divide? So they lived on Roshar with Cultivation and Honor. Then humans brought Odium with them to Roshar after destroying their last home with Surgebinding. Parshendi gave them Shinovar. Then...what? Used Surges forbidden to the Parshendi? When did the humans start fighting the Parshendi? I seem to remember something about the humans gradually taking over the homes of the Parshendi. And what's the deal with the spren abandoning the listeners for humanity? I don't remember any of the spren saying anything like that. From what I remember of Syl and Pattern, it seems like they fear the Parshendi and seek to eradicate them for fear of being forced into bonding with them.

Am I the only one who thinks that Adhesion is the dumbest of all the surges. Especially with Windrunners. We've only seen them stick people to things which they could could do already by just changing their gravity to the wall. It doesn't seem to be very effective or useful. With Bondsmiths we see Dalinar use Adhesion to spirtually connect to the Azish enough to speak their language but Windrunners are just stuck with a lame power that has been used in practicing with stormlight and never again. Any Ideas on what Adhesion might do additionally for specifically windrunners, if it does do anything more?

Hello! Fairly new to the Shard and this is my first post. I apologize if this topic has been covered but I searched and couldn't find a direct answer. I have recently finished my third listen of Oathbringer and started thinking about greater implications of Odium's creepy new dagger. If Ishar is killed (for real) by this dagger, will the requirement of Oaths become removed from the nahel bond? Since Honor is dead, it seems like the rules of being a Radiant are already starting to flex and bend more and more, what with the Skybreakers literally fighting for Odium, or Malata and her very anti-social spren who seem largely intent on destruction for its own sake. However, it seems like the first Oath is still required for the bond to form, regardless of the difference of other higher Oaths. Since Ishar was the one who decided to implement the Knights Radiant and lay down this codification of Oaths, would his death lead to the relaxation of this requirement? Would we get the problems on Roshar that Nohadon speaks of in Dalinar's flashbacks, with surgebinders that can bond spren in a more private contract between just the two of them, allowing someone who is less-than-nice to wield great powers? Would this in turn actually cause the destruction of Roshar - as feared by Honor in his last days - due to surgebinding? It seems like Honorspren have always largely been rather strict with their bonded human partners, but I get the sense other spren wouldn't be nearly so choosy or demanding unless they had to be. And if Ishar isn't the one holding the collective Radiant spren to the necessity of Oaths, then what is? I get the impression that the spren aren't exactly all in a unanimous vote with one another about most things. What else, aside from divine/semi-divine will, could cause all of them to agree on Oath requirements? The other option could, of course, be that Cultivation would hold everyone to the Oaths regardless of Ishar living or not, but she's so mysterious and rarely seems interested in interfering with humans in a large, authoritative oversight kind of way. I'm really hoping one or more of you clever people have some answers or ideas!

Ok, there's been something bothering me for some time. The supposed job of the Radiants was to stay vigilant for coming desolations. It's safe to assume that they heard the preach of the Heralds saying that they had finally won at Aharietiam, as the whole world was built around that fact, even religions arising from that (Vorinism). So, if they believed them, why didn't they abandon their shards immediately? Given that they thought there wasn't going to be another desolation, rendering the whole order of knights useless. Now, let's think of the opposite case. Let's assume they knew they hadn't won (Which I don't think was the case, cause the realisation of what the Heralds did is sure one of the reasons for the Recreance). That would mean there was a 2500 year gap between the Last Desolation and the False Desolation, in which hundreds of generations of Radiants spent their whole lives being idle. What jobs did they dedicate to? How did they even remember what the voidbringers were llke? Can it be the case that this much time without a real goal was the cause of all the squabbling between orders? Thoughts about this...

WOW!!!! I'm fairly new, and not entirely sure of spoilers, where to and where NOT TO mention them in topic, so all I will say is WOW!!! There was 1 part I wasnt a big fan of, NOT.....AT.....ALL!!!!! I mean, I get why it happened, I get WHY it had to happen, the whole "Heroes Journey" and all, but you can see it coming a mile away. I find it hard to believe, after everything he had learned, what he knew could potentially happen, that he would continue down that path nonetheless. Sure, it leads up to an AMAZING redemption/growth scene, but still, lol. Gonna start Oath Bringer tomorrow, and then it seems we have quite the wait for book 4, oh well, cant be any worse then waiting for George R.R. Martin to come out with Winds of Winter!! I mean, it's only been , what, 4,5 years now? Maybe longer? I have never had to EAGERLY wait for a BS novel. I read Elantris and wasnt aware he was making part 2 so, it was already out by the time I learned it had been written. Mistborn, books 1-3, as well as the 2nd era had been released before I started that series, and Bands of Mourning came out a couple months after i had finished Shadows of Self. Waiting for Bands of Mourning wasnt bad at all, having just read 1-3 of the 1st Era, and 1-2 of the 2nd era, I was experiencing a bit of "Scadrial" overload as it was, lol. That being said, book 4 in the Stormlight series has no hard date yet, but I've read that it has a tentative release date for the fall of 2020. Again, not having had to wait for any of his books in the past, how accurate are his dates? How have they been in past releases? I'm sure he cant deliever ALL OF THE TIME, things come up, a chapter or so needs rewriting, he has a family/private emergency that comes up that delays progress, it happens, but, again, with all that being said, how accurate are his dates? Does he usually deliever close to the given date? If he says fall 2020, will it be winter 2020 at the latest, or, in the past, had he said winter, but ultimately postponed release untill say, idk, late spring early summer of the same year, 4-6 months overdo?!?!

K so hopefully nobody else has talked about this, (I'm not about to go looking through all of the posts about Elhokar in OB), because I don't want to look stupid. Anyways, I read the Stormlight Archive for the first time this last summer, and after reading all of Brandon's cosmere works, (+Skyward, Rithmatist, etc.), I decided to re-read Stormlight to better participate on here. While reading today, I found this, said by Elhokar... That description sounds an awful lot like pattern when Shallan first sees him in her drawings...If I'm right it means even before Elhokar starting to speak the oaths in OB, (even before any stuff with Wit or whatever that was I don't remember), we had foreshadowing/evidence in PART 4 of WoK, that Elhokar could become a Lightweaver. I really hope no one else has found this and I'm not waaaaaaaay late.