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Elend Venture, Jasnah Kohlin, Kaladin Stormblessed
Aegolius.acadicus posted a gallery image in Cosplay Photos
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Why does Jasnah value music over visual arts?
Fifth of Daybreak posted a topic in Stormlight Archive
In Shallan's initial interview with Jasnah, she asks Shallan to sing for her, but then completely neglects the visual arts when Shallan mentions them. This seems very incongruous to me, especially considering in the scene, Jasnah has her sing in the middle of the testing. Why would Jasnah favor music? It seems to me that visual arts would be far more important to her as a veristitalian, as it allows her to see visual representations of things in the past, whereas, unless you're a listener, songs are not generally used as historical records. There's enough written history in human Roshar that songs would be obsolete as a way to preserve facts. Thoughts? -
Hi all! I've lurked here on and off for a while, but I wanted to share a character design I just finished. I hope to do a lot more characters, but I tend to be a slow worker, so we'll see how it goes. I hope you all like it!
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Something that caught my attention in Jasnah’s prologue, that I haven’t seen discussed yet, is one of Jasnah’s comments about the Parshendi Jasnah believes there is something, some ruins of importance, that the Parshendi have access to. I think it is safe to assume these are the ruins we see in Eshonai’s interlude, at the center of the Shattered Plains. So, what are these ruins? The obvious answer is that these ruins are Urithiru. But that may not be the only answer. In tWoK Jasnah is quite adamant that Urithiru is not on the Shattered Plains. It is possible that she is incorrect, but I find it unlikely that she would be so certain without reason. Jasnah’s notes refer to Urithiru being “Westward,” and it is hard to get less westward than the Shattered Plains. There has been specualtion that Urithiru is located in Shadesmar. The first WoR chapter provides some support for this, So, for the moment let’s assume that Jasnah is correct in tWoK and the ruins on the Shattered Plains are not Urithiru. What else could they be? At the Seattle signing in October I asked Brandon to indicate on my map in tWoK something that might be of interest to characters in the book, something that had been searched for. Above the Shattered Plains he wrote “Great Magic unleashed here.” I would guess that this unleashed magic is what caused the plains to shatter. But what was this event? 1. Perhaps some kind of physical manifestation of Honor being splintered. This would release the splinters, and could be the unleashed magic. 2. Magic on Roshar is very spren-dependent. And as Jasnah discusses in the first WoR chapter: Perhaps the Shattered Plains is a location where this “leakage” occurs… or perhaps it was a dam that burst. 3. If Urithiru was in Shadesmar, it may have had some physical correlate. We don’t yet know how relative location and distance works in Shadesmar, or how cities created in Shadesmar might manifest in the physical realm. Maybe Urithiru, and its assumed destruction, created some echo of ruins in the physical realm. I’m just throwing out a couple ideas, but I’d love to hear more. If there’s one thing I’ve learned from lurking around these forums it’s that 17sharders are boundlessly clever.
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WoR was one of the best books I ever read hands down, it had major character development, very surprising and shocking turns of events and was overall a very complete piece. However, more I think about it, more I realize how much I have an issue with the big reveal at the end of the book. (Spoiler Ahead) Having read so many books in this genre, I came to admire the thrill of not knowing whether main characters are going to live through a chapter or not, whether an assassin is actually going to complete his mission and not being so confident in the stance; oh they are main characters, of course they are going to live through the series. Sanderson did an excellent job of that in the MIstborn trilogy and that is one of the main reasons why I admire him as an author. When Jasnah died in WoR, it really shocked me (I did suspect it just a little bit although not that quickly). You know when things get to be so comfortable with a set of characters, and you start picturing how everything is going to turn out, and how they are going to figure out their problems and what they are going to do, and then BAM.. everything shatters, you literary feel Shallan's loss and struggle of how to move on - that is what separates great works from good ones. Hence, it really bummed me down when I realized that she actually survived. Dont get me wrong, I love what she is going to bring to the series because she is such an interesting character. However, I dislike when characters conveniently survive like that. It kind of took me a bit out of the ending. So, I was wondering if I was alone with this mindset or if there are more people thinking the same way.
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So in Jasnah's prologue, I found an interesting little tidbit that Brandon did his sneaky "I'll mention this is passing to make it seem like it's not important" trick on. It's right after her shadows are playing with her the first time on screen. Jasnah's other experiences? So what kind of experiences would Jasnah have had? The closest we know to other supernatural happenings around Jasnah is Dalinar visiting the Nightwatcher. This theory is pure conjecture, but I would have to assume that the statement here references that event. Otherwise I have no idea what experiences this would be pointing to. Then again, there's the book Shallan is reading in Chapter 3: Pattern. So this snippet leaves me with a few questions. First off, I'm making it a rule to pay attention to every question Shallan asks. They always seem to be important and insightful (and usually aren't answered.) If it was one of the earliest works Jasnah published, then I would have to assume that she wrote and published it before her foray into Shadesmar, so what made her want to study it and the KR? If that's the case, did she not want Shallan to read it because she had learned some information is false? Does it maybe hold the information about Jasnah's "other experiences?" The other in universe book we know of Jasnah writing is about gender roles in the modern Rosharian society, which seems much more to Jasnah's character considering her thoughts on marriage and the subject. This book was read by Shallan a year and a half ago (Chapter 65 The One Who Deserves It.) Now granted, we don't know when this book was published, but considering that her experience in Shadesmar was 6 years ago, and this was available to read, most likely widely available, I assume that it has been released for quite some time, but not overly old. So if the book on Shadesmar is one of the first published pieces, why the sudden topic change either from gender roles to superstitions, or superstition to gender roles? These other experiences that Jasnah had seem very important to me, maybe they are the base that allowed Ivory to bond with her? What else does anyone supposed it could be, it not Dalinar's run in with the Nightwatcher. Jasnah seems like she'd be astute enough to recognize Dalinar's discrepancies relating to his wife, and the superstitions surrounding the old magic seem to be the ones that are the most verifiable, especially for Jasnah. Later on in Chapter three during Jasnah's discussion with Shallan, they are talking about the Stormfather and the Almighty: So Jasnah admits that the Almighty and the Stormfather might be real, might be a powerful spren. Might be a powerful spren such as the Nightwatcher. Jasnah all but admits that the Nightwatcher is proven to be real. For a skeptic like Jasnah, I wouldn't expect this idea to be presented without Jasnah being completely sure. Anyone else have any theories on what Jasnah could have experienced before that confirmed some superstitions were based on fact? EDIT: Added third quote.
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Hello there. This is my first main board post, so don't hesitate to correct me on any rookie errors I might make. WoR spoilers follow, so please be advised. OK, here goes. Take a look at this quote from the epilogue: As a bandolier is specifically an item meant for carrying cartridges of firearm ammunition, the presence of one in the possession of Jasnah Kholin is quite odd. My interpretation of this is that she has used the Surge of Transportation as a means of travelling to Scadrial. The Stormlight Archive is roughly contemporary with The Alloy of Law, and so she would easily be capable of procuring a gun while she was there. Hoid's thoughts that she had picked it up while on her vaguely defined travels seem to support the idea, at least in my own mind. Has anyone else noticed this? Do you have any other supporting evidence, or perhaps a rebuttal of the theory?
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Sorry if this had been discussed already, but I didn't find threads on a cursory look through the forums. What do you suppose she was asking the Highspren about? Obviously it mentions that she learned a few things about previous desolations: Yes, it's heavily implied that she is merely pumping them for information about the desolations, but at the same time, she was gone for quite some time. I know there have been WoB implying that was due to the inaccuracies of elsecalling and her inexperience with it, but this seems too simplistic for me. It's also heavily implied that she had to leave in a hurry, and that she was in some sort of battle . So here are my theories. My first is based more on instinct, that the Highspren warned her about Nalan, and that's what monopolized some of her time. But that was just a hunch based on another theory I have about the skybreakers that I only wish to be true. Then I started looking at that excerpt; A utilitarian braid. She wants her hair manageable and out of the way. Usually any time before this Jasnah looks perfect, a part of her presentation to the world. Right now she wants function over fashion. Hemmed at the knees. Again, this a convenience factor. She can move more quickly and the dress won't trip her up. Jasnah is not normally one to rush. She sewed herself a glove out of something improvised. Right here. This is major to me. Jasnah would break from this tradition only if absolutely necessary. She already had enough a reputation with the heresy, so she wouldn't want to distance herself anymore by having people see her as indecent. She thinks it's even more important to have use of her safehand than it is to follow social conventions. I know Navani breaks it, but Navani has more social freedom than Jasnah does. She had a bandolier and a backpack that she didn't before. Kind of simple deduction here, she wanted those for simple utility. Burns on her face. She presumably just came back from the cognitive realm. Injured. Ok, so we see a much different Jasnah than we had before she left. Jasnah left a scholar, and yet she emerges as a warrior. In fact, without a second thought she levels a shardblade at Hoid. Fledgling battle instincts? Then there is this snippet: So now I was thinking she's referencing her escape from the assassins, but that makes no sense. That was months ago, and she has entirely different wounds than she would have from that encounter. She was involved in some sort of battle while she was off of Roshar. The only spren we know she definitely is interacting with are the highspren, who's order of Radiant is currently taking out other bonded pairs. We know the Stormfather has forbidden honorspren from bonding, maybe other spren had similar edicts. This could be interpreted as a law, which the highspren are focused on upholding. Here is the picture I'm trying to paint. Jasnah makes contact with the highspren, no knowing anything about the current state of the skybreakers, which are presumably hunting bonded to prevent deslolations, and due to broken laws. Maybe the Highspren are endorsing the deaths because the spren disobeyed and came to the physical realm. So after making initial contact, the Highspren give her the information she was asking as a way to distract her, while they summoned the skybreakers, trying to continue their quest to kill bonded. A large fight enues, and Jasnah once again has to elsecall in order to survive, and so she lands WAY outside of where she would like to be, battle hardened, and laden with fresh information, both about the desolations, and about the new threat to surgebinders.
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I've been reading Sanderson for a while, but never really bothered with a forum account until now. Hopefully I can contribute some stuff to the discussion of the man's latest work! So, it's pretty obvious that each of the books will start with Dalinar's assassination as the prologue, as seen from the eyes of a different participant or character at the time. With Words of Radiance's release, a lot of interesting stuff has been revealed that wasn't shown in Szeth's version of the scene, and there's a /lot/ of weird future hooks that I don't think I've seen addressed anywhere else. For starters, who was Jasnah planning to assassinate? If the two letters she wrote were similar, then it'd imply that Jasnah had reason to possibly want Aesudan dead- but why? More importantly, though, has anybody analyzed what Jasnah overheard in the hallway? So who's 'Ash'? Who's the person who's 'getting worse'? What exactly are they 'getting worse' in? I'm personally of the opinion that 'That creature' is Szeth, but that raises the question of who 'my lord' is, and why the Azish ambassadors should think that Szeth's Honorblade ought to belong to their lord instead. Alternatively, maybe they're talking about Nalan, Nightblood, and Vasher? That makes so much less sense, though- as far as we know, none of them show up in the scene anywhere. And just /what/ exactly did these people 'do' which they thought was wrong, and how does it relate to Szeth keeping his Honorblade? I have so many questions about this scene. ------- On a different note, I also noticed something strange about the prelude to Way of Kings. In the Way of Kings, in the introduction scene where Kalak and Jezrien prepare to abandon the Oathpact, Kalak describes seeing "Men in primitive wraps, carrying spears topped by bronze heads." This matches exactly Talenel's statement in Words of Radiance that, after every desolation, people would be reduced to stone-age level technology, with bronze being their highest technological achievement which could only be reached when the Heralds returned. This raises a few questions, because Kalak also states that the primitive bronze-using men were juxtaposed with "others in gleaming plate armor", presumably Knights Radiant- and it's been stated that the Knights Radiant were founded by Ishar, to preserve knowledge of the past and to help protect men. Does that mean that, as soon as the Knights Radiant were founded, the Heralds immediately gave up their burdens? There's little other way to explain the convergence of the 'primitive stone-age men' period with the 'knights radiant protect humanity' period. But if so, that means that the Knights Radiant only ever fought /one/ single Desolation before the Recreance alongside the Heralds, if even that. Otherwise, with the Knights Radiant around to do their job of protecting and teaching, humanity wouldn't have been reduced to not even knowing how to cast bronze every desolation. So... seriously, Heralds? You just give up the oathpact as /soon/ as you set up the Knights Radiant? Not even a few generations to make sure that you've taught them everything important about fighting Desolations and being Honorable and whatnot? The lack of foresight the Heralds display here is, honestly, completely galling. Though that's not really a surprise, once you take into account the state of Roshar, four-and-a-half millennia later. More interesting, though, is why the Heralds felt like they /could/ put down the Oathpact once they set up the Knights Radiant. The Heralds thought that perhaps they could end the cycle of Desolations forever by setting down the Oathpact- in which case, setting up the Knights Radiant feels almost pointless. If there's no more Desolations to protect humanity from, why even set up an elite corps of magic knights? So, ultimately, my question is this: did the abandonment of the Oathpact require, somehow, that others- the Radiants- take it up? If not, what was the /true/ purpose for why the Radiants were formed? The pieces of information I have doesn't add up to a coherent whole, and I notice I am confused.
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Hey guys I haven't seen (yet) a discussion about the words of radiance relationships so I will start one here, I am just wondering as to how the relationships between the major characters will turn out, since Adolin our lonely bachelor had just been engaged to our charming sharp witted Shallan, through Jasnah. I am wondering how it will turn out, will Brandon Sanderson try to make a love triangle between Adolin, Shallan, and Kaladin. Since from my readings of WOK seem to indicate that Kaladin's mother had quite the sharp tongue, so maybe Shallan might attract the eyes of Kaladin. IDK so i hope everyone can help enlighten me with their thoughts Thanks!!
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So, this post will contain references to both WoR and WoK, though only one major spoiler, and that will be in spoiler brackets, so don't look at that if you haven't read THE ENTIRE WOR BOOK. Literally, this spoiler is from the very end and I will -not- have it ruined for someone. The rest will be tiny minor spoilers that aren't consequential to your reading. _________________________________________________________________ Now, on to the post. During the series, several spren have been encountered or mentioned that are extraordinary. I shall list them thusly. 1. Cusicesh the Protector- This spren is an enormous one that rises out of the waters in a city whose name I have forgotten every day at the same time. It then looks at the Origin and changes appearance rapidly, making those around it tired. This spren appears to be bound to this area somehow, likely due to the way it is viewed by people as being the protector of the city. 2. The Nightwatcher- This strange spren gives out boons to those that request them of her, giving out curses in return as well. Not too much is known about her except that she is responsible for the Old Magic, which is likely not magic at all, but just a strong spren's manipulation of the cognitive aspect of the world. She is likely a spren of Cultivation, as I'm sure I heard Lift's spren talking about her at some point... Reference needed. She seems to be bound to some sort of valley in the same way that Cusicesh is bound to the city, by the way she is viewed by humans. Perhaps, if they viewed her as not giving curses, then she would only give boons? This must indeed be researched eventually. 3. The Stormfather- This immensely powerful spren is a spren that appears every time a Highstorm passes. He is responsible in some way for the release of Stormlight into gemstones during this time. This spren seems somehow trapped by the thoughts of man as being confined to the Highstorm. 4. Moelach- This spren, mentioned briefly by Tanavast on page 906 of the hardback version,is apparently responsible for the Death Rattle. When nearby (range unknown) This spren causes dying people to glimpse at something, powered by their life energy, past present or future. Unlike the other spren above, this one is cable of moving about, as it is so unknown by mankind that it is not bound by their perception of it. 5. Nergaoul- This spren, also mentioned by Tanavast, is responsible for the Thrill. It is considered an ancient evil spren that Tanavast does not yet have the resources to tackle. Aka, this thing is too strong for a kingdom that leads one of the most powerful cults in the world. This makes me believe it is an Unmade or Voidspren, a spren of Odium. He, like Moelach, is not bound by man's perception of him, and can move about, as he is so unknown. 6. Lunu'anaki- This spren appeared before rock from the depths of the Horneater Peak's "Oceans". Not much is known of him, save that he is considered to be a very very powerful god. He is the god of travel and mischief, looks like a lighter skinned Alethi with white hair. Possibly not a spren at all, but it is unknown. [Edit] This is most likely Hoid.
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So this can be just a general discussion of the nature of the orders of the Knights Radiant's, but I wanted to ask a specific question based on a few simple elements of a few of the "Radiant's reborn". First two subjects: Jasnah and Shallan based on what we learned in WoK, they both were soulcasters, which was, if I'm not mistaken, an order of the KR? It has been mentioned a couple times in each book that some of the KR's could soulcast. Is this ability to soulcast just for special people in the KR, is it randomly dispersed between the orders, or can some members of the KR be apart of two orders? Second subject: Lift In her interlude, she grew vines very rapidly to break a window, and she obviously had the ability to manipulate friction by adding friction or taking away. Does this mean she was part of two orders as well since there were two different abilities she had? EDIT: I just looked on the wiki and found an image that discribed the orders pretty well. I was assuming that two separate powers meant two different orders. So I guess the answer to my first queston would be that only Lightweavers and Elsecallers can soulcast because of Transformation? Or is each shared attribute between two given orders manifested differently? Example: Lift and Lopen can both use the attribute of Progression to revive people or "regrow" them (I assume Lopen can do this because he started to regrow his arm), but Truthwatchers share the attribute of Progression with them. Does this mean they have the same ability to "regrow" or do they manifest the attribute differently? Does that make sense?
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Here are all of the readings from Words of Radiance that have been released so far. This list is going to be updated when more come out. Also, the spelling of any new names are merely approximations, not intended to be completely accurate. Jasnah Prologue Kaladin - Chapter 2 Dalinar's Vision Shallan Flashback 1 - Red Carpet, Once White Eshonai Interlude Rysn's Interlude Ym Interlude Lift Interlude Taravangian Interlude Enjoy!
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What do you think will be Jasnah's most important lesson for Shallan? 1) The voidbringer writings she worked so hard on? 2) Lessons about Shadesmare? 3) Soulcasting? 4) Something else? I think her most important lesson is summed up from this quote in chapter 1: Jasnah even says its the most important lesson, more important than soulcasting. This quote is very foreshadowing, not only because it is important for Shallan to stand up for herself and face her dark past, but also because talks about illusion even before we know she is a light weaver, or what light weaving really is.
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When Kaldin spoke the Words, "I will protect those who cannot protect themselves," we rose to our feet and roared with excitement! When Lift spoke "I will remember those who have been forgotten," we shed tears and begged for more! Speaking the Ideals of the Knights Radiant have become some of my favorite moments in modern literature. I can't wait to see more Ideals! And so, dear friends, this poll. Who do you think will get to have their shining moment next? And please, drop a post to let us know why you chose them, how it might happen, and what the words might be!
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A conversation I definitely want to see happen... Jasnah, Lightsong, Shallan and Wit. I know now it will never happen, poor Lightsong, but still, Jasnah Shallan and Wit, maybe throw in a Navani and we'd have the single funniest dialogue in all of Sandersonian History. Cultivation would laugh so hard, she'd pass a kidney stone and the Everstorm would come.
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The situation Shallan and Jasnah are in now, where the ship is probably under attack, possibly by Ghostbloods (see the theory somewhere on the Forum), seems very similar to the one Egwene and Nynaeve found themselves in on the day they met Aviendha, where they were kidnapped by bandits to trade to Myrddraal. I hope that BS will not follow a trope (damsel escapes on her own) from a novel that he helped finish, but he seems to have painted S&J into a corner, story-wise. Are there other possible resolutions to their predicament? And if not, will there be outside help this time, or is it just their lightsaber (sorry, I mean shardblade) and soulcasting against the bad guys?
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If/when Jasnah and Shallan reach the shattered planes will Rock be able to see their spren, because he is alaii'iku? Seeing as he is able to see Syl it is only reasonable to assume he would be able to, and if he does, how would Jasnah or her spren react to this. Jasnah's secretiveness would make me think that she would either: A- Panic and try to leave/avoid the situation as soon as possible. or: B- Threateningly question how he is able to see her spren. It would also be interesting to see Shallan's reaction to this. I am excited to see how Rock's unique abilities will be revealed more in depth and how he will affect the story.
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The following sections seem interesting together. Jasnah seems to have had an interesting history about which we get only glimpses. When Jasnah kills the four thieves (tWoK chapter 36): Chapter 1, WoR Jasnah loses her poise at the thought of being beholden to a man? Does it seem like being sold into slavery to her? Prologue, WoR Is Amaram one of the men she has a negative history with? Maybe Kaladin is not the only one who has seen his dark side.
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Any one else feel this from reading the WoR chapters? I mean maybe it is just my prejudice but it seems like she fits into the 'older mentor' trope from fantasy fiction too well. Shallan seems to be on a more classical type of hero's journey and one of the ley points of development in that device is the death of the significant mentor.. usually leaving work unfinished for the protagonist. That would mean Jasnah = death. Also Shallan's comments on how her life is going do well sets my imminent-death-o-meter into overdrive. So Theory... early in WoR, Jasnah Kholin will die or be killed leaving Shallan to convince the world of the danger and to find Urithiru. EDIT: Also another thought... Jasnah's killing of the four men in Karbranth (sp?) was probably not legal, and she is a surgebinder.. you see where I am going with this? She is definitely in line for a visit from Darkness.