Search the Community

So...I'm really just looking to start a fresh discussion about the Unmade. I've got several theories and am very interested in hearing some of yours as well. Many of you are also way better and referencing WoBs and other cannon material than I am so I am eager for your input. By the way...I hate having to do the whole spoiler tag thing so just assume that every post could possibly contain spoilers... To get started, I'm just going to put some stuff out there for you guys to pick at. - The Unmade are slivers of Odium...true or false? - There are 10 Unmade that are the opposite of the 10 heralds...? - The giant figures that Kalidin and Shallan see striding the storm were Unmade. It is my personal theory that the Unmade are somehow fuelled by...created by...tied too...the heralds' torment in damnation between desolations. I've also seen it tossed around that the mysterious Black Sphere may somehow be tied to the presence of one of the unmade. Let me no longer hurt! Let me no longer weep! Dai-gonarthis! The Black Fisher holds my sorrow and consumes it! We know that Moleach causes the Death Rattles. We know that another one (not sure of the name) causes the Thrill. -Are there any other unusual phenomenon that could potentially be attributed to the presence (proximity) of Unmade? GO!

“And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, Slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?” - W.B. Yeats, “The Second Coming,” 1919 I recently started a topic asserting the Heralds are identity spren and that the Honorblades are Voidbinding fabrials. (I’ll get around to explaining more about Voidbinding in another post. It is NOT associated with Voidbringing, however.) I posited that, when it’s time for a Desolation, the identity spren search Roshar for temperamentally-suitable hosts to bond with. This last idea needs revision. It seems unlikely the spren would search Roshar for a new host. I can’t see Taln’s spren flitting from Shinovar to Kholinar before bonding with someone. And where’s the Blade in the meantime? I know Syl searched everywhere for Kaladin, but making sure you inform the world that a Desolation is imminent seems a different order of magnitude than finding an honorable man. (Is Syl Diogenes?) I theorize that the main purpose of the Stone Shamans is to be Heralds-in-waiting (and to recover the Honorblades). They train with the Honorblades, learn how to use the Blades’ Surgebinding abilities, and learn other martial arts. Comes a Desolation, they’re ready and waiting for the identity spren to choose one of them to bond with. My original theory in the linked post says the Heralds don’t know they’re not human. I’m sticking with that for now. If the Heralds don’t know, then the Shamans probably don’t either; although it’s possible the Shamans do know, and that “becoming a Herald” wipes all such memories away. In either case, the Shaman who will become Taln travels to Kholinar with the Honorblade. Outside the gates, he (or the Blade) does whatever must be done to initiate the bonding process. Pooff! He becomes Taln, complete with the glistening muscles that show the spren just came from Shadesmar. He is confused (love that word) because the “Taln” spren was left unbonded for an extraordinarily long time. Like other spren who bond in the Physical Realm after a long absence, it takes awhile for the Taln spren to reorient itself. (Think of Pattern after a relatively short time.) As of the end of WoR, Taln is better – he remembers “Ishar’s Knights” – but is not yet fully himself. As stated in the other post, I believe the Stone Shamans keep the Honorblades in the mountains east of Shinovar. Not only do the mountains block Stormlight from reaching Shinovar, but the Honorblades suck up any remaining investiture that might otherwise slip through. That’s what keeps Shinovar spren-free. Because the Stone Shamans had not seen a Desolation in 4,500 years, and had not seen a spren in Shinovar in all that time, they came to think Voidbringers were a myth. They may even have bought into Aharietiem. They were normal humans, passing along their knowledge non-magically. (Awaiting the writing of still another post: “Voidbringers” are what Odium’s investiture turns otherwise normal objects/entities into. First Odium “corrupts” (that is, invests) an Adonalsium spren. Then that spren bonds with another object/entity, giving that object sentience and infusing it with Odium’s mandate (intent). The “corrupted” spren in Dalinar’s Purelake vision was itself an Adonalsium spren before it became Odium-invested and created a thunderclast. Stormspren are Odium-invested windspren that turn listeners into Voidbringers; honorspren are Honor-invested windspren.) When Szeth somehow recognized that Voidbringers were real and imminent, he caused an ideological crisis among the Shamans. Their belief system would shatter if Desolations were possible. They had no choice but to banish him as “Truthless.” Nale now tells Szeth to take out the Shamans. This would enable Nale to recover the Honorblades for the true Heralds (that is, the ones the identity spren are still bonded to). It will also prevent the Shamans from wrongly using them, since only the Heralds with all their experience and knowledge will understand how best to use the Blades in the “True Desolation.” Nightblood meets Honorblade. Both suck magic. Place your bets…

It seems strange to me that the Heralds would accept immortality in exchange for eternal torture. I don’t care how “honorable” the Heralds are (and many of them have as much or more Cultivation in them as Honor). No earthly religious figures endured so much over their lifetimes for their beliefs, let alone through eternity. It's just so improbable, even in a work of fantasy fiction. So I sought an alternative explanation consistent with Roshar’s magical and planetary peculiarities. This is what I’ve come up with. 1. The Heralds Are Identity Spren Whoever the original Heralds were, they gave their memories and physical, mental and emotional characteristics (their “Identity”) to Honor to help maintain Odium‘s imprisonment in the Rosharian system. Honor created an “Identity spren” for each Herald and implanted that spren in each Honorblade. When the time comes for a Desolation, each Honorblade seeks a human whose physical characteristics and temperament match their Herald’s “Divine Attributes.” The Honorblade then bonds that person to itself. In other words, the Identity spren/investiture attaches itself to that person’s spirit web at precisely the places necessary to make that person into their Herald. As Syl has noted, the Blade itself is not a spren, but the spren within the Blade chooses a human to bond with. Through this investiture – more than the amount of investiture constituting a RadiantSpren – each bonded Herald acquires his or her non-surgebinding abilities that Brandon has alluded to (Taln’s quickness and hand speed, for example), as well as that Herald’s physical appearance, personality and memories. 2. The Oathpact The Oathpact was the agreement of the Heralds to fight for Honor in exchange for immortality. I believe they did not know how they were made immortal or that it would result in their perceived “torture.” Kalak’s interaction with Jezrien in the WoK Prelude (calling him the “immortal king”) supports this interpretation. Moreover, WEZ313 in an April 2015 post referenced a WoB that purportedly said "the Heralds blamed Honor for what happened to them." 3. The Honorblades Are Voidbinding Fabrials Honor designed the Honorblades to consume investiture, bind the investiture together as Stormlight (“Voidbinding”), and recycle the Stormlight. The Heralds are Voidbinders. Stormlight consists of physical investiture in gaseous form from each of Honor, Cultivation and Odium. It is the balance of the investitures that enables Honor to "bind the Void," and imbalances that cause Desolations. (Many storylines grow from this conclusion, and I’m still working through all the implications. Rather than to go into more about this now, may I say RAFO? 4 . Where the Heralds Go When They Don’t Die The Heralds “go back” following Desolations even when they don’t die because the Honorblades consume and return each Herald’s Identity spren to the corresponding Honorblade. 5. The Heralds’ “Torture” A Herald’s “torture” between Desolations is the Identity spren’s exposure to Odium’s investiture in the re-forging of Stormlight through the Voidbinding process. The Identity spren may or may not participate in this process. The intensity of the intra-Honorblade battle between Honor’s binding and Odium’s divisive investiture is what the Heralds perceive as the daily rendering and regrowth of their “flesh.” (Recall that Stormlight includes Cultivation’s Progression surge, which heals the Heralds from that damage.) 6. Who Is Taln? Taln IS Taln. But the spren that constitutes his identity had been locked inside that Honorblade waaaay longer than it had ever been before. Like other spren, it lost much of its memory and other cognitive characteristics when it transitioned into the Physical Realm. It will take Taln some time to recover himself. (Who now has his Honorblade is another story…) 7. The Stone Shamans Keep the Honorblades in the Mountains East of Shinovar Of the many singular things about Shinovar, most striking is the absence of spren. One reason is that the Stormlight-bearing Highstorms have dissipated by the time they reach the mountains east of Shinovar, and those mountains scrape off however much of the Highstorms remain. I propose an additional reason: the investiture-consuming Honorblades are kept in those mountains. They create a barrier to ensure that no investiture of any kind slips through into Shinovar. (I address why that is in another part of my Theory.) There's a lot more to say, but that's it for now.

So something has been bugging me about the things that the Rosharan people swear by, specifically about the Heralds. They seem oddly specific in wrong ways. We have the following examples: Kelek’s breath Ash’s eyes Ishar’s soul Nalan’s hand There’s a couple others (“Chana knows”, “Chana help”, “Pailiah knew”), but those don’t have the problem below. We see that the curse basically follows the pattern of Herald’s name followed by one of the body foci listed in the Ars Arcanum. The strange thing is, the foci doesn’t line up with the Herald that it is associated with. Kelek’s focus was nails (hand). But here, the hand is associated to Nalan. Same thing for Ash. It should be blood, but instead we get the eyes. Really, what I would expect to see is something like the following: Kelek’s hand Ash’s blood Ishar’s flesh (yeah, that’s a tad strange, I admit) Nalan’s breath I’ve thought about this and couldn’t come up with any discernable pattern for the changes. Tried offsets, rotations of the chart of the Radiant orders, etc. Couldn’t come up with anything. Anybody else have any ideas? I’m fairly certain there’s a reason for this in the history of Roshar and it’s possible we don’t know enough yet. Or that I’m over thinking this.

I have little basis for this post, but it is, after all, a theory. So bear with me. I postulate that the Heralds are the cause of the Desolations. Roshar believed that the Heralds always came back in time to fight and lead humanity against a Desolation, but what if that Vorin belief is only partially based in truth? What if the reason that the Heralds always showed up in the brink of time to lead humanity in the face of an oncoming Desolation is because they knew about its oncoming because they caused it? We know that Brandon is a fan of having his Shard-gods (like Preservation and Ruin) make deals with each other to preserve life on their respective planets. What if Honor and Odium struck a similar agreement? Odium is full of hate and wants to destroy anything that isn't as miserable as he is (since misery loves company), and he is incredibly powerful. He can eventually overcome Honor and Cultivation, so Honor devises a plan to extend the life of Roshar--he strikes a deal with Odium. The deal could conceivably have taken place like this: Honor can't stop Odium from destroying life on Roshar, but he can limit Odium's influence in some way. The key to Odium's getting full access to the planet: the Oathpact. Honor and Odium agree to a deal (much like Ruin and Preservation), where Odium is allowed to vent his hate on Roshar, subject to Honor's terms. This is where Honor's nature comes into play, as he asks for 10 volunteers to hold the key to Roshar's future in their hands. These 10 people will hold Odium's access to Roshar in their honor. Honor and the Heralds are honor-bound to conform to the terms of the deal and give Odium a chance to destroy Roshar, so the Heralds go to Odium's stronghold to be tortured until their honor breaks and they grant Odium access to Roshar. Odium, however, is bound by the agreement to return the Heralds to Roshar so that they can resist him. This is why the Heralds always arrived before the Desolations--they broke and granted Odium access to cause the Desolations! I propose that whenever one Herald broke, all 10 Heralds were sent back to Roshar. That would explain why Taln, known as Stonesinew and possessing (I infer) the strongest will of the Heralds, was able to resist allowing another Desolation for 4500 years until the book. Without the other Heralds to break first, Taln could resist the torture he was subjected to up to his natural breaking point. This could explain why he said that "I have failed," when he arrived in Kholinar--his will broke and he was returned to Roshar according to the terms of the Oathpact with Honor and Odium to resist the Desolation. This theory of the Heralds themselves allowing the Desolations, that their honor and will was all that stood between Odium and Roshar, and the as-of-yet unrevealed provisions of the Oathpact is an interesting one. I'd like to hear your thoughts. I didn't word this well at all. I'm tired. Sue me.

I just found out the other day that Shalash is Jezrien's daughter. The coppermind wiki is awesome. As cool as it is, that just had me wondering about all sorts of other things. I tried finding some other answers, but didn't come across much, and wanted to know if I'm just missing something... Do we know anything/have any other theories about the implications this has for the rest of the Heralds? It seems like a Father/Daughter relationship is something that's too significant to be a one-off fun fact. Is it possible there's a Mother/Son, or Husband/Wife, or Siblings among the Heralds? Does this have any impact on how the KR work with each other? Jezrien and Shalash don't share any attributes (I thought maybe they would have one in common), but since they don't, are their attributes particularly complimentary to one another? Or perhaps more opposite. If I remember correctly, Honorspren and Cryptics don't exactly get along, and yet, they're the spren of a Windrunner and Lightweaver. Or is it Father/Daughter like the KR were considered "brotherhoods". Is it assumed that this is an actual, biological connection? When I found this out, I assumed that Shalash was born, grew up, and then she and her father became Heralds at the same time. I was also thinking it would be possible perhaps for her to have taken her mother's place as a Herald once Shalash grew up. Basically, I have a ton of questions and I feel like there are a lot of implications this one thing could have for the rest of the Heralds and the dynamics of the whole group. If Taln was related to one of them, if he was particularly special to one of them, how could they leave him behind? If he was special to someone, and it's possible that the "Taln" in the books is not actually Taln, could it be the family that abandoned him?

There's something I'd like to know about the Heralds and that maybe has been explained somewhere: is there any explanation of why the Heralds have to suffer between the desolations and where they go in the "hell"like place of torture? (sorry if you have already answered this questions, I didn't find them)

I decided to make this thread after reading a thread combing through the death rattles. I wanted to try and make sense of the snippets from the book from the start of each chapter and try to put them in order and see what we could learn about the Radiants. By Chapter: Rough order of WOR:

I have this theory about the Oathpact and the reason for the torture of Heralds, the death of Honor, the reason for the Desolations, and the origin of Honorblades that I don't think anyone else has already stated. First, I'll start with a couple references from Mistborn: In Chapter 57 of Mistborn:HoA, Ruin says this: And throughout the book it's made clear that Preservation's sacrifice was only a temporary solution that caused him to give up his mind, but would eventually allow Ruin to escape his prison. Also, in chapter 81 of HoA, Vin was able to use the power of Preservation to push back against Ruin causing her divine body to tremble in pain and agony and eventually die. I know Vin didn't trap Ruin this way, but I'm just pointing out that she hindered Ruin and that fighting a god causes pain - at least when the gods are so opposed. To me, this sounds a lot like the Oathpact. It's called a bargain, instead of a pact, but they mean almost the same thing. There is pain involved. A god must give of themself. A god eventually dies as a result. A god is trapped/imprisoned or hindered in some way. It's a temporary solution. Now, what if Honor and the the Heralds figured out a way to trap (or at least hinder) Odium and make it closer to permanent? Instead of Honor suffering agony for thousands of years (just like Preservation), dieing, and Odium eventually escaping (or regaining full power), the Heralds agreed to endure the pain in place of Honor (how this was accomplished will be discussed below). And what if by doing so, they prevented/delayed Honor's death? There was some kind of bargain (Oathpact) between Honor and Odium that trapped/hindered Odium temporarily, but caused Honor to die, after a few thousand years of agony, in the process. Afterall, would it not be honorable to give up your life to save the lives of the entire world? However, Odium was tricked because of the intervention of the Heralds (this might be considered dishonorable though, so Honor would not be involved in the trick). Odium still escaped his prison (or regained his full power) every few thousand years and it caused a Desolation. He is defeated and re-imprisoned; the Heralds return to the place of torment; and Honor still lives as a result. Now, I know Taln was still being tortured after the "last" Desolation, but what if that wasn't enough to save Honor's life this time, so he died or splintered. There is speculation that this is what caused the Recreance. Finally, I think this original Oathpact is what forged the Honorblades - their origin being hidden in plain sight. Honor had to give of himself to trap/hinder Odium, and the Honorblades are the physical manifestation of Honor's power - much like the Mist is the physical manifestation of Preservation's power or Atium is Ruin's. These Honorblades were given to the Heralds to grant them great power during the eventual escape of Odium. But in the process, because they held pieces of Honor's "body," they endured great torture when they were in the place of torment. I believe that place of torment is one and the same as Odium's prison. Holding an Honorblade and being in Odium's prison at the same time is excruciatingly painful, but it saved Honor's life - until the Heralds (except for Taln) failed to return the last time. Any thoughts, flaws, additions? Edit: modified for clarity and to address some of the comments below

I'm new to this website! I'm so glad that it exists to help me. I recently finished WoK and WoR. I loved these books, they were great. After reading, I had many questions that this website helped fill, but not all of them. I am still confused on the Heralds... so little of them is known I feel at this point. Question #1: The book starts at the end of a desolation and one of the heralds had died (herald of war). The other one states that "I can't go back, I just can't" and the other agrees and says the others felt the same. They mentioned that the one herald that died will be enough to cover for them and they his suffering is better than all their sufferings... when they die they get sent somewhere to be punished or something in preparation to come back again? Question #2: The heralds left their swords and left... what does this mean? Are they dead at this point or simply immortal like beings wandering the world? We know their swords eventually found their way to the Shin but what of the heralds themselves (other than herald of war which apparently came back to life of some sorts in WoR)? Question #3: In WoR we know the Herald of War makes a return that Wit was there to welcome saying "you may be too late". He doesn't really do much... I don't know what happens but supposedly when the heralds die they go to some place and come back for the next desolation. So is the Herald of War the only "active" herald now? Question #4: Similar to question 3... the person that saved Szeth at the end was a herald? I don't understand who that was or the significance. But I feel there is one. Thanks so much for any help filling in the gaps for me!

Ok, at the beginning I"ll mention that I'm new to this site (discovered it at the beginning of this week) and generally to Brandon's work (I'm on my second re-read of WoR, I also read WoK twice, but not any other book - those were his first works I've come across), so I hope you won't mind much that there are any things I don't know I've seen that we have WoB that by now all of the Heralds appeared somehow in the books, though I've already discovered how many theories are there about them, so little is known or sure (and that's what makes it all interesting). Of course we know about Nale and I definitely do agree with the theory of Shalash being Baxil's mistress, but alost nothing is sure about the others. I've seen theories about Jezrien, Pailiah and propably few others (I didn't yet go through half of the forum, so I may not know...). But I've done a search and found almost nothing about Chana. And I don't mean just theories of her current whereabouts, but anything at all about her. Now, I must admit that Chana is my favourite Herald, even if we know next to nothing about her. It definitely has something to do with her association with the essence Spark (rubies, fire and so on - I'm completely for such things ), but mostly it's about the order of Releasers, which seems the most interesting to me (along with Windrunners - but Releasers have in my opinion better attributes, and personally I think I'd like to be one of them). So since I like her so much, I tried to find her in the books. I know I may lack some information or the insight of someone accustomed to finding things in cosmere works, but I decided to try anyway. Well, here goes my theory: what if Chana is Liss? I know it may be rather far-fetched, especially since I don't have very concrete proofs (but on the other hand I didn't find anything that would rule out that possibility - let me know if there is something about that I missed or misunderstood). Anyway, there go my arguments in support of this theory: I think I'm safe to say that it's widely believed that currently the Heralds are rather twisted versions of themselves. One of Chana's attributes is bravery, which brings to mind (at least to mine ) the idea of straightforwardly going against the enemy. Assasination doesn't seem brave in that issue so it would fit into the "twisted Heralds" concept. Another of Chana's attributes is obedience. This one would actually fit - in a way assasins obey the orders of those who hire them (and Liss didn't seem to defy Jasnah's will). There is also the matter of Szeth - I don't have the book on me right now, so I'm not sure about the actual quote, but Liss mentioned that she felt there was something off about him. If my assumption is correct, then maybe she somehow sensed the Honorblade he had? (I don't know if that's even possible among the Heralds, but I think that maybe they had some means to identify each other or their Blades) That would be it, as there is little information about either Chana or Liss. I know it's not very solid evidence, more like just some speculation, but maybe there is something in it? I don't think I saw anywhere in the books anyone else whom I've thought of possibly being Chana. I'm not sure about this, but I've seen somewhere (maybe on this forum?) that all of the Heralds attended the feast in the prologue (which would fit into my theory), but it's likely I'm mistaken on this. Besides I don't know how to explain the fact that Liss apparently posseses a Shardblade in the light of my theory (maybe she attracted a spren, maybe she won the Blade somehow, or maybe it's her own Honorblade? I honestly don't know, there is nothing to support any of those claims). But on the other hand I didn't find any real evidence against my idea... Well, what do you think about it? Is there any chance of Liss actually being Chana? Maybe there is not enough evidence as of yet about that to say anything, or maybe I overlooked something important that would prove me wrong? I'd really like to know other opinions, especially from those with more knowledge about Brandon Sanderson's works

So I haven't seen any posts about this. Not that they don't exist I just haven't seen any. In all other worlds the immortality has been explained through the magic systems. The Elentrians are immortal through AonDor. the Lord Ruler use compounding to become immortal. In Warbreaker anyone above the 5th Heightening is immortal. How are the Heralds staying young after all this time. there is no lashing as of yet that allows Immortality. I doubt it was the Almighty because he is dead and the Oathpack was broken. So how are they still alive?

So, story time. Today I was catching up on all threads on 17th Shard, especially ones in this board. This involved me going through RShara's wonderful Word of Brandon thread, and I saw this: Meanwhile, I go looking on my Words of Radiance term sheet for new wiki articles, because, y'know, I'm a giant nerd. So I go searching for the terms that don't have wiki articles. One near the top? Ash. And what do we have in the Prologue? This passage is way the heck more weird when you know that Ash is the nickname of Shalash. And they suspect she's getting worse. On first reading with this revelation, I want to say that the others are Heralds too, but then they are refer to, presumably, Szeth carrying "their lord's" Blade. I don't know what to think about that. However, this can't be coincidental. There are lots of mentions of "Ash's eyes" in the book, which now we know refer to Shalash thanks to that quote above. These people knew Shalash. That much is certain. EDIT: It occurs to me that the "my lord" could refer to Jezrien, as he was the King of Heralds, and Szeth holds his Honorblade.

I raised this question in another thread, but thought it deserved a broader audience: Why haven't we seen any Herald spren? The Heralds are as much an idea as Honor or Cultivation. Even though the Heralds are human, one would think that through the Vorin religion they've become idealized and should have become personified by the spren. If the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher, so-called "Godspren" (at least in this Forum), personify Honor and Cultivation (at least in part), why aren't there spren personifying each of the Heralds? Or maybe there are...Can "maybe-Taln" actually be a Taln-spren that's found a human warrior to bond with? That might explain "Taln's" confusion - his spren just hasn't adjusted to the Physical Realm yet. The human host might have lost his own memories, perhaps in a western Roshar battle, since there seems to be an ongoing war there.So all he's got is his spren trying to figure "Taln"-things out on his own. I don't know whether the host's abnormally quick reflexes are natural to him or spren/Stormlight-enhanced, and I assume he would have had his own shardblade, since it's clearly neither an Honorblade or a spren-blade. Or maybe it IS Taln who's been bonded by his own spren? Not really pushing the Taln-spren idea - it requires a lot of twisting of what we know to shoehorn it into something plausible - but it does seem odd that we haven't encountered a Herald spren. Thoughts?

Hey guys, first post and first topic here. I was reading all of the awesome theories here, combined with a Stormlight Archive re-read, and had an interesting thought. Tell me what you guys think. Just a heads up, I didn't exactly do my due diligence with the WoB quotes. I'm quoting mostly from memory, but if you guys think there is potential to this theory then I'll come back and flesh this out with links quotes and such. Okay, so we have WoB that, on Roshar, Nightblood behaves very similarly to Shardblades. I think there is more to it than that. I think Nightblood behaves similarly to an Honorblade. (This may already be the prevailing theory, but I don't know if there is actual WoB to that effect.) For one, Honorblades have more in common with Nightblood than they do with Shardblades. Honorblades are actual physical objects that are heavily invested; same as Nightblood. Shardblades, however, are Spren, which are mostly cognitive entities, that are mimicing the effects of Honorblades. Between Honorblades, Shardblades, and Nightblood, Shardblades are the odd ones out. There is also the obvious similarity in their destructive potential. Honorblades and Nightblood are all very powerful tools. This is the superficial similarity that everyone makes and takes for granted. After that conclusion is reached, it's easy to stop thinking about it. But what if the Honorblades made the Heralds instead of the Heralds simply being matched with the Honorblade that best suited them? In The Way of Kings CHAPTER 18: HIGHPRINCE OF WAR, there is an interesting piece of information. That sword of retribution line really caught my eye. I guess it's a "what came first, the chicken or the egg" dilemma, but what if Nalan, who's Divine Attributes are Just / Confident which could easily lead to Retribution, became that way by holding the Sword of Retribution rather than the nameless Honorblade that Nalan wields having become known as the sword of retribution simply because it was Nalan wielding it? I propose that the Honorblades are so heavily invested that they have a sort of Intent of their own, much like Shards of Adonalsium, that shapes the personality of their bearers. For example, if Jezrien and Nalan had initially been given each other's Honorblades, then perhaps Jezrien would be Just / Confident and Nalan would be Protecting / Leading. This is where Nightblood comes in. Nightblood, like Honorblades, consumes Investiture in order to fuel the powers it uses to perform its Command. I'm proposing that, on Nalthis, Honorblades would have their own Commands. In this case, "Command" is what Nalthians call "Intent." In fact, I believe Vasher explicitly describes the process of giving a Command as visualizing the intent behind the Command. In other words, endowing something with an Intent. So if, on Roshar, Nightblood is using Investiture to perform its intent, that would mean that "Destroy Evil" would translate into an unknown Primary and Secondary Divine Attribute. This is a rough draft of a theory, but I hope with some input from the community it can be fleshed out and formalized into a working theory to describe the relationship between invested objects, Intent, and Commands.

I have a theory I'd like to throw out there for discussion. I believe that Honor made the Honorblades work for anyone that could pick them up purposefully. So that the burden of being a Herald could be passed on to others and the Oath Pact could be maintained even after one of the Heralds broke under Odium's torture. This could also potentially support the theory that the "Madman" that is currently holding that position of the Herald of War is not the original Talenel'Elin, though I'm not entirely convinced that he isn't Talenel'Elin. In addition, maybe the Honorblades are not inherently inefficient in their use of Stormlight, but that the wielder must speak something akin to the First Ideal to be awakened to Heraldom and become a better conduit for Investiture. I say these things because it seems very shortsighted of Honor to place such an important task in the hands of ten men and women, who despite being immortal, still suffer from the pains of mortal beings. So there you have it! Please discuss ~sbi

I believe Brandon has said that their will be a flashback from each order of nights radiant so from this we can extrapolate. 1st set Kaladin - Windrunner 1 Shalan - Lightweaber 2 Szeth - Skybreaker 3 Eshoni - Willshapers 4 (unconfirmed but speculated willshaper) Dalanar - Bondsmith 5 2nd set (not in this order) Taln - Stonewards 6 Lift - Edgedancers 7 Jasnah - Elsecallers 8 Renarin - Truthwatchers 9 Chanarach - Dustbringers 10 (unconfirmed but known to be a 2nd herald) Although it is unconfirmed it has been speculated and i agree that Eshoni will be a willshaper leaving only the order of Dustbringers left for the 2nd herald making her Chanarach.This seems even more likely when you consider that we now have 5 male characters and 5 female characters just like the original heralds and how well Willshaper fits Eshoni who was called the Explorer on the back of the book. Could someone link me to the quote where Brandon said there would be a book for each order I couldn't find it.

On the ten Essences chart on the Coppermind, There are 7 things associated with each other. Number, Gemstone, Essence, Body Focus, Soulcasting Properties, Divine Attributes, Herald. I believe there should be more. Due to the Holy number of Vorin tradition and Roshar, 10, a chart like this would have 10 Categories or Columns during the Days of the KR. 10 by 10. This chart was made in World by the Ars Arcanum Author (Khriss?) so it can be Wrong. I think we can add the specific Order of the KR onto the chart, matched to their Herald, as well as the Silver Kingdom. This way, the Chart would be More Holy, and probably closer to the in-world version. So for Number 2, Nale's row, we could add Skybreakers and Natanatan. This still leaves one more Column, unless you count the Divine attributes as two, bu t I don't think that's likely. The Capitols of each Silver kingdom could Work, or the Spren of the KR. (I'm assuming that each of the Silver kingdoms also had a specific Herald more so than others. I'm guessing Natanatan because it sounds closest to Nale.) And I apologize if someone had proposed this before, but I coulnd't find anything like it.

So I was looking at the glyph for the Herald Shalash and I realized that the blade of the "sword" Looks an awful lot like a warped version of the unnamed garnet glyph. So I tested my theory out. And low and behold it seemed to work. So I decided to test it out with the other herald sword glyphs. Some needed to be warped a little more than others, but the pattern seems to hold true. I'm hoping to be able to figure out how to do a time lapse video of me editing the knights radiant glyphs and unnamed glyphs so they line up correctly with the herald glyphs.

So I've been reading around the forums throwing this around in the back of my mind. I'm going against two very popular opinions, so I am ready to be blasted by arguments. Let them fly! Theory 1: Nalan is not corrupted. Theory 2: Ishar is the other Herald in the Prologue First let's set up some background information, taken from Words of Radiance (the in world one.) So right from the start, we know that Ishar was against the Surgebinders running amok. Then there's this gem from WoB. So here it's suggested that the Skybreakers are basically the enforcement of the codes that Ishar was setting up for the fledgling Knights Radiant. Another snip from WoR So Nalan only stepped in when they stopped prosecuting, according to this quote. Skip forward a large chunk of time to present day Roshar. Nalan is actively killing surgebinders, while following the law. He is keeping with his own personal philosophy, even at the risk of letting a desolation occurs, because that's what he thinks he's doing. Here is a man who is obsessed with law, to a point where he lets go of Lift to slap a minion for asking if they are above the law. So he does care about justice. He forces his own subordinate to face whatever punishment for killing a kid (I bet it's a brutal one too.) He's bringing justice to the surgebinders, because thiey could cause a desolation, but he only does it in a way that satisfies his divine attribute. "But EMTrevor" you say, "Where does Ishar fit into this?" Well we already know that Ishar was iffy about the whole Surgebinders running amok thing, and that's what's happening at the present time. All the characters and spren are adamant that they are not KR. They have no organization, and no rules, time for Ishar to destory each and every one right? But that's Nalan is doing! Unless, they are a team. So far, we have figured out that Nalan is trying to stop the desolations from happening, even if through questionable means. Let's jump back to the prologue now. Woah, so this man (IMO Ishar) and Nalan are now involved with the assassination of Gavilar Kholin. Why? Well, the Parshendi claim that Gavilar was about to do something dangerous. We know he was in league with Amaram, and, most likely, with the Sons of Honor, as stated in Chapter 88 The Sons of Honor were trying to return the Voidbringers in order to return the Heralds, and Gavilar was a member. Returning the voidbringers would bring another desolation. Nalan and Ishar plot to kill Gavilar...and Nalan also plots to kill Amaram. Heleran is the Shardbearer who Kaladin kills. Amaram thinks that the Ghostbloods are behind it, but Heleran was not a Ghostblood, that was his father. Earlier in 88, Mraize says that Heleran sought out the Skybreakers, whom we know to have shards from Lift's interlude. So now we can pair the assassination attempt on Amaram to the Skybreakers, and then to Nalan, again, killing someone who could bring about the desolations. Ishar would be a natural ally for this, as he did not wish to have Surgebinders running amok, and would also want to prevent a desolation, for the implications it has on the world, and on the Heralds who abondoned their oathpact. Finally, lets look at the Szeth part of 88. Woah, that's a change in direction. What happened to hunting those who would cause a desolation? Oh yeah, that's right the desolation is here. So with his main quest failed, Nalan turns to his side quest. Justice. Who deserves justice more than the leaders of the Shin (please don't say King T, please?) The Shin leaders who banished Szeth and forced him into his position as Truthless are technically responsible for all of the murders he committed, because they wrongfully forced him into the role. (Crazy end theory) Considering Nalan's statement about being their god, I am inclined to think that Nalan was a force of Shin, entering the world and delivering death for the good of the people, but he was as deceived as Szeth was, and so the deaths that Nalan caused are then also the responsibility of the Shin. Justice for those that Nalan needlessly slaughtered in the name of saving the world. Justice for the wanton slaughter that Szeth partook in. Justice, and not a perversion of it. Edit: Seperated crazy personal theory from the rest of my deductions, as they should have been seperate thoughts. Thanks to Argent for pointing that out to my sleep deprived mind.

Hi, I made a kind of reference document (mostly stuff from the wiki) on Heralds and Surges and chapters (in progress) + some wild guesses, I thought maybe it could be useful to someone: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1R7NoW7vMfWMSezANJ1Me7p4rK72kutmnc5kuMKugqQU/edit?usp=sharing

Stuck behind "spoiler" just in case: Not saying I necessarily believe this, more that I'm looking for others' thoughts and opinions on the possibility.

It seems to me that Gavilar is the link between all the groups and organisations across Roshar. He possessed a certain knowledge which he ironically shared with everyone but his own family which now has kind of formed the Knight Radiants. Starting with the followers of Diagram, we see that Taravangian in his moment of reflection after he becomes the king of Jah Keved thinking about how he had followed Gavilar’s instructions to unify the world for survival and he also knew that Gavilar had visions from Honor which foretold of the Everstorm. Also, Amaram when he sneaks in to inspect Taln and steal the shardblade wonders that the heralds are real and murmurs “Gavilar, we have done it. We have finally done it” which leads me to think that Amaram and Sons of Honor’s motivations are also linked to Gavilar. Though I don’t know what exactly Gavilar has shared with them, probably something about the return of the Heralds and facing the Desolations. This could be something similar to what the Envisagers wanted maybe, where they tried to bring back Knight Radiants the Restares are trying to get back the Heralds, I mean they want the dominance of the Church and they would want their Gods back to help them survive. The Parshendi of course knew what Gavilar was planning. On the shattered plains when Adolin was facing Eshonai in his father’s shardplate, she says that Gavilar was trying to bring their gods back and that would have led to complete destruction. As their gods had once forced the forms upon them and the only way they could have freedom was by devolving to the dullform. (this makes me think that the Parshmen and Parshedi are of Odium). Even the Ghostbloods, before dying Gavilar thought Szeth was sent by Thaidakar, the man who leads the Ghostblood. And the Heralds were also involved as Nalan was there at the treaty signing party and they were discussing how their conditions are getting worse specifically mentioning Ash (shalash). Also, Nalan reveals to Lift that what she is must be stopped as it would return desolation so maybe they were there to stop Gavilar as he wanted to refound the Knight Radiants. So, it seems to me like every road leads to Gavilar. Something is happening that all these secret societies know and Gavilar was the trigger that started the chain of events by discovering the secret that led to his assassination by the Parshendi bringing the fate of Roshar together. And now everyone is either following or trying to stop Gavilar’s work by attempting to unify mankind or trying to stop the desolation.