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This is according to Ishar in what one presumes is a lucid moment of his, but the topic of this thread is about Renarin. It seems increasingly certain that Renarin can touch the Spiritual Realm. We see an example of this in his healing of Adolin in Oathbringer, Chapter 10: And also in Chapter 8 of Rhythm of War: Given that, and his precognition (which is -- you know -- a pretty big sign), I pose the following question: Can Renarin render the Heralds lucid by using his abilities near or on them?

So, I have been thinking about the endpapers of Rhythm of War and I think that the Kalak and Pailiah ones are Alethi (or otherwise Vorin), the Chanarach one is Shin, and the Nale one is either Azish or Shin. My reasoning is that Kalak and Pailiah both fit into what I imagine the Vorin range of appearances to be, Pailiah has a covered safehand but an uncovered freehand, and they have the same artist. My reasoning on Chanarach is that she is very pale for a Rosharan, has round eyes, and has an uncovered safehand, plus, there are fairly Earthlike trees behind her. Nale has the same artist as Chanarach, has birds in the background, and while his eyes are closed they appear fairly round, which support shin, but his uniform also seems to fit what has been described as an azish uniform, and his background prominently features metallic spheres and domes, which we know are a major part of the architecture in Azimir, and presumably other Makabaki cities. So, does anyone else have any thoughts? Theories about the OB papers are welcome, too. Also, while this is in the RoW spoiler section, please avoid RoW spoilers, at least for now.

So near the end of OB, we saw Jezrien getting stabbed and seemingly permanently killed. Many people wondered about the mechanism via which the knife worked and whether Jezrien was truly gone or had his soul captured so he couldn't reincarnate as Heralds were wont to do. The knife that Moash/Vyre used had a sapphire set into the pommel and the sapphire in question glowed during the deed. In the same book, we saw an Unmade getting trapped within a gemstone, so we knew that it was a strong possibility. People also noted the similarity with Hemalurgy. Of course people asked Brandon to confirm certain things: 1) Jezrien's soul was captured so it couldn't be reborn (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/377/#e12261) 2) The mechanism is similar to Hemalurgy (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/256/#e8665 , https://wob.coppermind.net/events/258/#e8774) 3) Sapphire, which is specifically linked with Jezrien and the Windrunners, was used specifically against Jezrien here (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/262/#e8798) And in chapter 14, we are told that the Fused could also be captured in gemstones: “They imprisoned some of the Unmade in these, Leshwi,” Raboniel said. “How close do you think they are to discovering they could do the same for us? Can you imagine it? Forever imprisoned in a gemstone, locked away, able to think but unable to ever break free?” A) So, Jezrien could still be rescued, reminding y'all just in case you forgot all about him. But in which case, so could Moelach.... (And may I remind you, they just chucked the gemstone he was imprisoned in into the ocean. And may I also remind you that Nazh was capable of retrieving Shallan's sketchbook from the bottom of the ocean after her ship sank) Hmm, I wonder... how was Re-Shephir imprisoned back then by some historical Lightweaver? Was she also captured in a gemstone? How'd she get out? B ) This mechanism might work against other Cognitive entities. It works with spren, Unmade, Fused, Heralds, so it might also work with the Returned or Divine Breath, with Seon & Skaze, with Shades (is that how Nazh's Shade gun worked? Heyyyyy... firespren flamethrower, anyone?) C) Sapphire was used against Jezrien, so was the King's Drop targeted because of this? Odium did say he was seeing to it as an additional safeguard for something unlikely to happen or something like that, iirc (could someone check?). Was there more to the King's Drop than just being a perfect gemstone? D) If the mechanism is similar to Hemalurgy, what happens if you, you know, go through the entire process? After the stealing comes the grafting. What would happen if Vyre's knife is stabbed into someone again? Would Jezrien take over their body, Fused style or possession style? Would they get some of Jezrien's attributes?

I apologize if this has been posted before, but I just had an interesting thought. There is reference to torture, but obviously and hinted and...This entire time, I’ve thought that, when sent to Braize, the Heralds were tortured by the fused. However, after doing some re-reading I have developed a theory that the Heralds were tortured by various members of the unmade. Is there any reference to the Fused being the ones who actually tortured the Heralds? I know there are some quotes by Ahu that directly call out several Unmade...thoughts?

So, I just finished my oathbringer re-read and have come up with a theory about the heralds. oathbringer spoilers my theory is that the oathpact bound together the souls of the heralds, part of the reason is probably so that they could share the pain of torture, but also it is possible that this was also done to cement them together to the oathpact. Oathbringer spoilers. The second part of my theory is that Odium will use this to make/ replace the heralds, meaning that in order to stop the fused from returning after death, odium's new heralds would need to be dispatched. thoughts? Any Wob that make or break this theory, or any things that you can point out?

This is essentially a continuation of my previous thread: tl;dr version of it: I believe that Near East mythology (Ugaritic Baal Cycle, specifically) predicts that Rayse and the Fused will be killed with Sja-anat's help by the end of Arc 1. Arc 2 will be about Odium reforming itself OK, we can start We know that the names of the Unmade come from Near East (mostly Canaanite) mythology (plus some Lovecraft). Imagine my surprise when I found out that the same applies to selected Heralds and the Sibling: Ishar – Ishara, originally a Canaanite love goddess, then turned into Hittite goddess of oaths, who punishes the oathbreakers. Quite a fitting connection, I would say Shalash – Shamash, Mesopotamian god of Sun and light. Once again quite a good match Jezrien – supreme god (depending on the culture: El, Anu, Amurru, Yahweh). His later name, Ahu, is (given the nature of the letter 'h') pretty much identical to Anu. I believe that the fact that his names typically start with Je-/Ya- is a link to Jehovah/Yahweh (plus he's also worshipped as the only god in Emul) The names of the other Heralds don't have mythological origin, as far as I can say, which makes sense in a way, as in the ancient Near East only royalty (Jezrien, Ash) and maybe high priests (Ishar) would use names associated with divinity. They all, however, share the suffix “'Elin” which seems to come from El, associated with Jezrien The Sibling – Ashur, who represents a deified form of the city of Assur – clearly the same concept as the Sibling and Urithiru Fun fact: staring from Ashur, we can find a nice chain of (probably Easter egg) connections scattered around the Stormlight books. Ashur appears in the name of one of the last Assyrian kins – Ashurbanipal (literally 'Ashur has given a son-heir') who happens to share some similarities with Dalinar: he was known as the king who could read and write (not a small feat, given the complexity of cuneiform and ancient Summerian and Akkadian) he lost his lands in the West, but gained new in the East his capital, Nineveh, had the largest library of ancient knowledge at the time (similar to Urithiru) and was prophesied in the Bible to be completely destroyed (similar to the fate of Kholinar in Almighty's visions) the prophecy from the previous point was made by the prophet Jonah, who was, according to Bible, swallowed by a giant fish at one point – something weirdly similar to what happens to Hoid and a greatshell, as described by Lift Given all that, I can see two interesting theories/implications: The Unmade are Odium's Heralds/Honorblades: I have assumed for a long time that the Unmade would be the Bondsmith godspren (or maybe Truthwatcher godspren) for Voidbinding, but in the light of the new evidence I believe they are the equivalent of the Heralds instead. It makes sense: they are superpowered beings using their Shard's power on a hostile Shard's territory, trying not to get captured. They are also not exactly efficient – Yelig-nar uses his hosts up rather quickly, as the Honorblades use Stormlight The new, evil Oathpact As I wrote above, I believe that Arc 2 will include reforming Odium. We know that: there is no Unmade corresponding to the Order of Bondsmiths Ishar is a crazy, egomaniac Bondsmith who possibly wants the death of all mankind Arc 2 will be about figuring out the Oathpact Based on that, a possible mechanism of Odium's return is a new, evil Oathpact on Roshar - one between Ishar and the Unmade. It could be enough for Ishar to Ascend and bring Voidbinding (10-based, Voidspren bond based magic system) to Roshar – essentially a twisted version of what Dalinar tries to achieve with Honor and the KR in Arc 1

Intro The Heralds, as we all know, were once normal men & women who were offered the chance to become something greater by Honor. They were granted the Honorblades, allowing them each the use of two Surges, along with other abilities. Upon death, the Heralds are returned to Braize to endure torture until one of their number breaks, which initiates another Desolation. We know that during the first few Desolations, many hundreds or thousands of years would have passed between the last time the Heralds returned to Roshar. Often, the Heralds would have to progress society rapidly in order to get them prepared for the coming war. This alone would have most likely been enough to convince many of the Herald's divine nature, however I suspect others would need a more direct demonstration. The Heralds have two distinct advantages when it comes to feats of unnatural power: First, the Heralds were directly powered by Honor. This means that they did not need to rely on stormlight stored in gems, and also implies that they would be able to use a greater amount of stormlight at once than a regular Radiant. Second, the Heralds occasionally swapped Honorblades. Additionally, it is possible to wield more than one Honorblade at once. My proposition is that this mixing of Surges greatly influenced the deification of the Heralds, due to the miraculous feats they could achieve, beyond that of a normal Surgebinder or even a Knight Radiant. Allow me to present some examples. The Surge of Transportation Jasnah, an Elsecaller, uses her Surge of Transportation to Soulcast from a distance, without physically touching the object she is changing. I believe this application of Transportation would apply to any of the Surges that usually require touch, such as Cohesion, Adhesion, or Regrowth . . . This is actually an incorrect assumption, please disregard along with the following example. But my ultimate point about mixing Surges still stands, damnation it! Transportation & Progression Regrowth is a powerful application of the Surge of Progression that allows healing and even resuscitation, but is limited to the user physically touching the recipient. However, let us imagine that the Herald Vedel (Progression & Abrasion) borrowed her Honorblade to the Herald Battar (Transformation & Transportation), allowing the latter to use both Honorblades at once. This, along with presumably unlimited Stormlight provided by Honor, would allow Battar to heal many people remotely. She could perhaps heal an entire army at once this way. Adhesion & Abrasion Adhesion, a Surge that sticks things together, and Abrasion, a Surge that can be used to ignite and degrade matter, including humans. Perhaps a Herald wielding these two Surges could stick many enemy's feet to the ground at once, locking them in place, and then use Division to set the ground alight. There are many different applications of these mismatched Surges, and I believe that these incredible feats of power (along with the Herald's normal prodigious use of the Honorblades) greatly contributed to their staying power in the minds of the people of Roshar. I would love to hear your ideas on the different ways the Surges could be combined in non-organic ways (that is, combinations that do not currently exist in the Radiant Orders). As always, thank you for reading, and I hope that you had to google apotheosis, a fun new word I learned today while researching this topic

We know what starts a desolation: Heralds returning to Roshar or staying on Roshar for too long. We have no similar idea when it ends. Yet the heralds knew. The present desolation has one new feature in the form of the Everstorm. In past desolations killed Fused would return in the next desolation only. So who has which interests after it is sufficiently clear who will win? Let's look at the actors: The Heralds They really do not want a desolation to formally end. For them the best possible world would be one where they do little to no fighting, but are allowed to stay on Roshar. The distinctions is important. They want to win the war, but not end it. A bit like mercenaries. The living Fused That depends on patriotism. From an individual biew point being alive on Roshar looks better than ghosting around on Braize. They might continue some kind of guerilla. If you want the SIngers to prosper, the next Desolation cannot come soon enough. The dead Fused They want the next desolation. For that the Heralds have to break. For them to break they need to be tortured. For them to be tortured they must be forced to return to Braize. If there is no longer a realistic chance of winning, it is better to give up and try again. The sooner, the better. Odium His view is likely close to a dead Fused. As soon as his forces are defeated and have done all the damage they can reasonably do on Roshar, it is better to withdraw for the next round to come quickly . Where does this leave us in terms of strategy? I am afraid I now need to ask you to liberate your inner psychopath and drop all hints of ethics. Let me look at Odium. After the first few desolations he has understood that he is in a war of attrition. Hence he will shift his focus from the field forces of Honor's troops to the population, as soon as he is losing. While you are winning captured population is good. They will make your supplies, perhaps you can even press some of them into your service. But you lost all prior desolations. You need to prepare to lose this one and be ready to switch. First you want to destroy any institutions that keep civilization working: hospitals, places of learning, port facilities, ship yards, mines, mills, forges ... But at some point this runs into diminishing returns. Then your next target become the people itself. If there are fewer Rosharans, you will face fewer soldiers the next time. And they will have a harder time getting civilisation running again. So whom do you target? Women and children, especially older girls. The factor (food aside) that sets a limit to the growth of a mammalian population is the availability of fertile females. Hence women and older girls (younger girls is not so good, because child mortality, which will be high, as you are confiscating food, would render a part of your job futile). Disgusting, but wars are not nice. Your enemy will try to stop you by means of fortifications. Warfare is sieges and assaults on fortresses, followed by a dash to catch retreating forces, then surpressing the people of the area you took. And once you are being beaten back, you slaughter civillians. And once you are beaten so much that the damage you do is no longer worth the time you are giving the Heralds, you retreat to Braize to start over. So, what, mechanically speaking, ends a desolation and forces the Heralds back to Braize? I have three candidates: The number of Fused on Roshar is getting too low (It cannot be zero or the Heralds would have tried capturing some, bashing their heads in and keeping them alive in a coma with Progression - yes, war is gruesome.) Fused cease to come to Roshar (This is unlikely, as it would allow the Fused to come, keep running and make Heralds return, leaving the Rosharans alone to fight. And you are not going to catch all armies of flying Fused) Odium turns off the tap of Voidlight - I think that is really the end of a desolation (and I would speculate that that was the reason Gavilar acquired spheres of Voidlight for experiments) The most important conclusion I am drawing is that the Heralds don't end a desolation. Odium does so, forced but deliberately.

The first thing I would like the point out is that, this is something that came to my mind this morning when I was unable to sleep due to the heat in the UK at the moment, it could be very flawed and I could have had many things really muddled up. But, with everyones input and thoughts, I am sure more sense could be made out of this. Outside of the books, I must admit I am unsure with how much has been revealed from Sanderson himself, most of this could be unproven or thrown under the rug, but I think it's intersting. So, I have a theory about the Unmade, The Heralds and Honorblades. Basically, the history of the Unmade is very cloudy and in modern Roshar, their history is largely unknown. Some sources claimed there was 10 but it is generally assumed that there are 9. This I think is very interesting and quite important. There are 10 heralds, and only 9 Unmade (but there could be 10, see what I am getting at?). Ever since the Oathpact was abandoned, only 1 herald went to Braize, being Taln. This means there are 9 Heralds left on Roshar, incidentally there are 9 Unmade. I think there is a link there… I do believe that there are 10 Unmade, and even though sources indicate that they have existed on Roshar since before the Desolations, I debate how true this is (backed up by the clouded history). I think, in previous Desolations when the Heralds were trapped on Braize, they were being tormented and fighting against a specific Unmade (one per Herald, and its Voidspren). After the Oathpact was broken, and only Taln went to Braize, his Unmade went with him. Thus, 9 Unmade were on Roshar with the 9 Heralds, and 1 on Braize with Taln. [Off topic I thought of in my edit, but, the Unmade could be Odiums ‘Heralds’. We have seen the Fused use surges, maybe there are different types of Voidspren, similar to the different Spren needed for each order of Radiants: Honorspren, Cryptics, etc.] For whatever reason, the Voidspren remain trapped on Braize as long as one Herald and Unmade are present. (This I can’t seem to find a logical reason for, but I think it is important, something about a Herald being on Braize keeps them trapped, even if it is one Herald.) After Taln had given in, and returned to Roshar, everything on Braize was freed. Thus, the coming of the True Desolation. This also means I think a 10th Unmade has come to Roshar, one that has been ignored. (this backing up some sources from history that claim there were 10). This was the first thing I have been thinking on. Secondly, Moash and Honorblades. Moash killed Jezrien in a way that is unlike that in history, when a Herald got killed in history, they seemed to return to Braize, however, Moash killed Jezrian with a knife that contained a gemstone. I think Odium has been cunning in his planning. 4500 years had passed since the last Desolation, the longest time in history; this is A LOT of planning time. We don’t know much about the creation of Honorblades, and we know Shardblades are Spren that mimicked Radiant surges, but Honorblades are said to be a type of Splinter of Honor. I think however, Odium has found ways to create an Honorblade out of the Herald itself. This would be interesting, if the gemstone in the dagger Moash used has bound the herald, (also confirming this death being ‘different’), then perhaps that gemstone can be used to create a new Honorblade. And this could have interesting implications, imagine if his new Honorblade/Heraldblade?, allowed the wielder to become to new head of that order of Radiant. Imagine if, it actually allowed them to manipulate and ‘control’ the knights under that order; it would really mess up Dalinar’s plans. I feel like Moash will also be the first person to wield this. I find it too strange the Jezrien (being the order of windrunners, thus Kaladin, Moash’s ‘friend’) is the first Herald to be killed in this way. If a new kind of power is created from Jezrien, and Moash wields it, then, he could take control of the Windrunners, and if he is able to somehow influence them, he could turn them against Dalinar. And Moash being Moash, will probably try to convince Kaladin that this is the ‘right’ thing to do. Ironically, this could be what leads to Kaladin debating breaking his oaths, as what Syl and the Stormfather have been promising would happen, but this time, in a way that is ‘different’ to The Day of Recreance. Since this is the True Desolation, it would make more sense that things would turn out differently to how they have in the past, ESPECIALLY with this additional time Odium has had to plan.

We know very little about the Heralds before the Proving Day. As far as concerned, Spren look for humans whose personal values, moral code and personality matches the most with the Heralds. According to the legends, the first and biggest concern of Heralds was protection of humanity, they would defend but also teach mankind. I'm not even a it inclined to believe they were all soldiers. With that in mind, who exactly were these men and women before they become cognitive shadows? 1) Jezrien Herald of Kings, he was probably born in Ashyn. According to the madman's words "and Jezrien . . . he will teach you leadership". It makes me wonders if Jezrien wasn't in fact a King from start. I actually believe he was a commoner, if not, he was at best a highborn, but not a king. Jezrien was a soldier, a general, he was the one who take the leader after the long travel to Roshar. If he become a King, it was after human society . 2) Nale Herald of Justice, in Ashyn Nale was a constable. In Roshar, he worked as a Magister. I'm supposing based on their Azish title "Nakke, the judge". It matches with his order shared values, put the laws above everything else, and also with his personality. 3) Chanarach Very few is know about her, probably the Herald we know the least. At first I used to think she was an assassin as her order is know by the erratic and destructive members. The words Stormfather use to describe Taln were he was the only who wasn't king, scholar or general. It makes me think Chanarach was in a power and prestigious position. Her divine attributes being Bravery and Obedience makes me think she became a General after her life as an Assassin in Ashyn. 4) Vedel Pretty easy one. According to Taln words "Vedel can train your surgeons", her Radian Order members are infused with healing surgebinding and her divine attributes are love and heal, giving very little space to disprove: She was a Scholar and Physician. 5) Pailiah Matron of Truthwacthers, there is very few we know about her but it's clar she was a Scholar though it's not clear what was her foremost subject of study. Palanaeum was named after her, implying she was probably the most prominent learned Herald. But I'm going further and believing Pailiah was an actual Oracle, whether hes clairvoyant powers were true or false is questionable, but the fact Truthwatchers were considered to be esoteric it just makes my theory stronger 6) Shalash Herald of beauty and Lady of Dreams, not only a princess Ash was an artist. I'm basing this hypothesis mostly on one thing: Her symbolic destruction of her own artistic depictions. I actually don't quite believe she was trying to hide herself, each civilization are used to portray Heralds of members of their own civilization and how could they ever imagine how Ash would look alike. Ash was destroying her Art because she was ashamed, arts were the most important things on her life she just feels she's no longer deserving to have any piece of art in her name. 7) Battar Like most of her radiants, the Herald of Elsecallers was an scholar. I won't say a word if she is Dova or not, so I'm basing my thoughts of what she was really on her orders Spren. It's a very well know fact Elsecallers were the true masters of cognitive realm, forming the highest liason with the greatest spren in Shadesmar. That's, combined with her divine atributes of caring and wisdom, make me feel she was a diplomat. Battar was one of the fewest Heralds who actually tried to make peace with Singers, rather than conquered them and was chosen a Herald because Honor wanted individuals who didn't seek for Singers destruction, but for humanity protection. 8) Kalak I believe he's the second youngest Herald. We had a POV of him, but after millennia or war and torture we only knew he was a depressive and neurotic individual. As Taln says "Kalak will teach you to cast bronze, if you have forgotten this" makes me feel Kalak was a Contractor, a Master Builder and an Engineer. 9) Taln The only commoner among the Heralds, the Herald of War was just a mid-tier soldier and a swordmaster with a steel willpower. According to himself "I will train your soldiers". He was chosen because of his dependable personality and teaching skills. 10) Ishar Blinder of Gods, Ishar was a Sage and a Priest of Honor even before Ashyn's destruction, when humanity still worshipped Odium. Ishar was the one who looked for Honor and ask for Mercy for his own kind, which Honor promptly granted after Ashyn's exodus. That's long-term relationship between Isha and Honor was what make him the highest Herald and the one who Holds the biggest powers. In Roshar humanity looked for him when they needed guide and to listen Honor's worlds. TL;DR Jezrien - A Soldier who became a King after the destruction of Ashyn Nale - A constable who became a Magister Chanarach - An Assassin who turned to be a General Vedel - A Surgeon Scholar Pailiah - An Oracle Scholar Shalash - An Artist Princess Battar - A Diplomat Scholar Kalak - A Build Master Talenel - A Swordmaster and Combat Teatcher Ishar - A Honor's Sage

The title is pretty self explanatory. I want to know which was first, the Radiant spren or the Oaths. Now, we know that the spren created surgebinding trying to mimic the honorblades. We also know that the surgebinders later organized themselves into orders based on the heralds. Each order built their oaths on the virtues their chosen herald displayed. Now, this is where it gets interesting. The Oaths perfectly fit the characteristics of that orders spren, which perfectly fit the attributes of that orders herald. So, back to my original question, which was first, the Oath or the spren? If it was the spren then there are a couple of things that don't make sense. Why these particular spren? The Bondsmith spren make sense as they seem to be much larger then all the others, but why Ashspren but not Firespren? Also, it seems far too coincidental that the power the spren give and the ideals that they follow fit perfectly in with the heralds. Especially when Brandon has said you can in fact bond any spren, but the benefits of doing so would be less then that of a radiant spren. I think that the Oaths created the spren that we know today as radiant spren. I believe the ability to form the nahel bond strengthened a certain type of spren's intelligence. This would explain why some spren that you wouldn't think should be more intelligent then others are. Lets go back to the example of Ashspren. Ash doesn't seem to be a deeper idea or a more thought about concept, and yet ashspren have a higher intelligence then many other spren like rainspren or firespren. The creation of the Oaths and the orders of Radients by the Nahel bond would've granted the spren a higher intelligence and perhaps it also gave them more of an alignment with the oaths that they are bound to. This explains both why these spren are more intelligent and why they perfectly align with the heralds ideals and powers.

<Mistborn Spoilers> This (trapping a shard for a period of time) however, isn't a unique occurrence in the Cosmere. Honor used the Oathpact to limit Odium's influence on Roshar. What I'm proposing is that what Tarnavast did to Rayse is the same thing that Leras did to Ati, using cognitive force concentrated in a physical form to hold the power of a shard, however instead of using his own cognitive aspect, he used 10 Heralds instead. Every 1024 years the well of ascension would fill with investiture, what I'm saying is the sort of outlet to Ati's power, stopping the whole system from breaking by using the excess. Tarnavast however, didn't create such a system, and instead used humans (shored up with a little of his own power) to prevent Rayse from escaping his prison. Since humans work different to Shards however, the Heralds had to physically be at the site of the prison, and so could be broken by Odium (creating the Desolations).

TLDR: Ishar has always been nuts and Nale is right he survived with his mind just as it has always been. For some reason Nale and Ash both think that Ishar is the only one of them that has not gone insane. Nale even tells Szeth at the end of OB that "Only Ishar survived <the torture> with his mind intact". Everyone assumes the Heralds are just misguided and blindly trusting one of their leading thinkers and scholars. But what if they are not wrong? What if they've been right all along and Ishar has survived with mind intact? What if Ishar has always been a megalomaniacal psychopathic bastard?! It was his idea to ditch Taln. It was his idea to put rules on the Radiants, but maybe it was out of jealousy of their growing power displacing him as a deity. With the destruction of Ashyn they knew very well the dangers of surgebinding. What took them several Desolations to realize precautions were required, if that was in fact the reasoning for formalizing the Orders. Look at the endpage art of him Any takers on this nonsense? =) Just trying to shake things up with a different angle.

I can't remember if that was emphatically stated or not. I only remember Ash holding his hand and the emotion of that scene in the tent. Were (are?) they romantically inclined? Kinda hard when half the party is mad, I know

Questions about the Cognitive Realm… Ok, I maybe taking this to a slightly fanatical level, but dammit I have soul wrenching questions here! So pick a few and discuss. Please. Or dredge up a few WoB's for my education! Thank you. Do ALL humans look like flames in the CR? What do Parshendi look like? What do Radiants look like? Do they still look like flames? Do they look an amalgam of their spren and a flame? What do Elsecallers look like? If an Elsecaller soulcasts an object (cognitively enters the CR), what does she look like while doing so? Does she look like an insubstantial version of her physical self? If so did her 'flame' change to look like her? Does she look like herself but outlined in flames? Does she look like a blend of herself and her spen? Does both herself and her spren appear in the CR? If an Elsecaller transports to the CR physically, does her flame suddenly transform into her? Or is it surrounded by stormlight and then she appears where her flame was? When you encounter a location in the CR where a village or city of sentients are in the PR are all of the flames about the same level above the beads in the CR? When humans are in a multilevel structure in the PR, are their flames floating higher above the beads than when they're at ground level in the PR? If the flames ARE NOT floating at different levels then what happens if one human is directly above another in the PR? Do the flames superimpose over one another in the CR? Are the Heralds visible in the cognitive realm? What do they look like? Can a herald/radiants cognitive appearance be attacked in the CR? If they are FULLY in the physical realm, why aren’t they metal, like the spren? Do the spren need to eat? (Their version of it anyway) If so, what do the spren eat? Are they simply ‘refreshed’ everytime there is a highstorm? Or do they consume something from human emotions? Or do the physical spren use the highstorm and the emotion spren use sentients? How do higher spren use stormlight as an exchange medium? Yes they use perfect gems for storage, but what about additional stormlight? With the closure of the oathgates and people forgetting where cultivation's perpendicularity is located, getting new amounts of stormlight in the CR is difficult at best. And there was no evidence of gems recharging in the CR. Or is it as if they're using the gold standard and have been doing so with a static supply of stormlight for a very long time? And if that's the case, then how do you account for spren such as cultivation spren using up the stormlight supply to manifest objects in the CR? Wouldn't they be having a shortage after such a long time? How do lower spren navigate the sea of beads? When an anticipation spren wants to get near a nervous human that is in the center the Rosharan supercontinent in the PR, how does the spren move through the ocean of beads to get near him? What keeps them from sinking to the bottom, just as physical humans do? True they don't need to breath, but they do need some way of maneuvering presumably.

So am I correct is believing that we still do not have a conclusive answer on what ends a particular desolation. Obviously the Heralds returning to Braize is the true end but when do they decide that a desolation is won. The only thing I can think of is when they have "killed" all of the fused, but that doesn't make sense as it it implied by Kalak's prelude that desolations would end with a (often closely fought) final battle that the heralds could predict would be the final battle before hand. (shown by the heralds having a pre-set meeting place for after the battle to start the return to Braize) Given the powers of the fused it seems that even if they lost a battle they would be very easy for some of them to just fly off and hide preventing the end of the desolation. But if it is not the fused, then what is it? Tib

When Stormfather told Dalinar about the Honorblades , he said “ with it you became a Windrunner Un-oathed , and more ...” I always wondered what he meant by that . Are thier more powers it grants that we haven’t seen ? Then I thought of the creatures the Heralds fought during desolations , Thunderclast , midnight essences , etc . I further thought of how the spren copied what they saw the Heralds doing. So I wonder can the Heralds when they have thier Honorblades produce plate . Without it they could be taken out fairly easily by 3 or 4 Fused attacking in concert . If they have a Thinderclast or unmade in the vicinity it would be even easier to kill one . If they had plate however , they couldn’t be laShed and wouldn’t be susceptible to any of the influence of the unmade surges . With thier experience it would give pause to even 10 Fused to attack one. When Honor was alive he supplied them with stormlight so they would really be scary to Fused having that much power at thier fingertips. What do you think ? Plate or no plate?

Okay so I've been thinking about this a lot. This is a fairly general theory that I might expand on in the future with book references and quotes but I wanted to get the basic idea of it out there and see what people think. My basic expectation is something along the lines of this: At the end of book 5, Dalinar will learn of a method to take up the shard of Honor and do so. Upon doing so he will endeavor to form a new Oathpact. That oathpact will be with Kaladin and perhaps others. Reasoning: Kaladin has, from the very beginning been a tortured soul, and his pain always comes from protecting others or failing to protect them. This is a very Herald-like quality The first Herald to be eliminated by Odium just so happens to be the patron of Kaladin's order, The Windrunners. If a replacement were ever needed, Kaladin is a perfect fit. Dalinar's connection to the Stormfather and his incredible abilities as of Oathbringer give him a special link to Honor's power. There will be a 20 year gap between book 5 and book 6. What would account for that gap? Kaladin forming an Oathpact and going to Braize in order to give time to his allies in preparation for Odiums eventual return. I'd like to hear people input on this, for and against. I'll give it some more thought and eventually formulate a full fledged theory based on what we come up with.

As the Cosmere gets bigger we start to see similarities on different Pllanets in the Cosmere. Two of them have made shardblades. One thing that next popped out to me is that several planets have some form of cognitive shadow that is persistent . Roshar have Heralds and the Fused . Sel has Elantrians. Nalthis has The Returned . I’m not sure if the Shades on Threnody are Cognitive shadows but anyways . I’m seeing a pattern . I’m thinking the shards need some type of Cognitive shadow to serve as Agents on the planet . So I’m asking what are the Cognitive Shadows on Scadrial . At first I thought it was the mist wraiths . They would preservations Form of shadow . But knowing what a cognitive shadow is I know it can’t be the mistwraiths . They were never alive as a person and came back to life . Then I wondered if steel inquisitors were. Again same problem . They never died and came back .the only person that has died and came back was Kelsier. And one doesn’t equal enough to be a system . It’s just one irregularity .So can you guys speculate with m . Does it seem that every planet has a type of cognitive shadow ? And if so what is the cognitive shadow on Scadrial

In OB, when Moash kills Jezerien, on a recent reread of OB, i noticed that ShallAsh cries out, OH GOD! OH ADONALSIUM! This makes me wonder, why would a herald cry out in the name of Adonalsium? not Honour? or Almighty? even Cultivation may be. But Adonalsium? Did the Heralds worship Adonalsium? Does that mean they followed a pre-shattering religion? or could it mean that they were alive pre-shattering? How old exactly were these heralds at the time of forming the Oathpact? How much time was there between shattering and forming the Oathpact? It can not be within a single lifetime. Even human exodus from Ashyn and settlement on Roshar and then first desolation, forming of fused by odium and forming of Oathpact with honor, all these events in totality, should have taken a long time, atleast a 100 years if not more, but still we know from wobs, that heralds came from Ashyn. Again, how old were these heralds? I always thought that they became Immortal after the oathpact, since they are basically cognitive shadows, but now i am wondering if they were already immortal when they came from Ashyn? Because that could explain a lot here. Were they surgebinders who destroyed the planet? hence, they were made to leave? So had that surgebinding granted immortality too? I am all too confused here. any thoughts guys, please share...

Did the Heralds have Shardplate?

According to the Stormfather in Oathbringer, even before the Fused got Surges, they were unbeatable because they just kept reincarnating, which necessitated the whole Oathpact thing - the Heralds had to go to Braize forever (which unfortunately turned into being tortured) to lock away the Fused, since they just couldn't kill them. But the Fused are Cognitive Shadows, and we've seen plenty of Cognitive Shadows killed on other planets (Warbreaker/Arcanum Unbounded spoilers). And we know that Nightblood "destroys on all three Realms", and there's a WOB that a Shardblade could kill a spren. With the amount of power Honor could give the Heralds, why wasn't there a way to kill the Fused? Hmmm... actually... is Nightblood the first thing Roshar's seen that actually can permanently kill them? Szeth might be even more important than we thought...

I've seen a bunch of discussions on things like this, and people pretty much always have decided that the fullborn would win against people from other magic systems. I do agree that the power of a fullborn are ridiculously overpowered with compounding, but against a herald, the balance could change, as the heralds can be reborn. The reason that this wasn't used in their battles was that they had to stay on Braize to prevent the desolation, while in a fight like this, we could say that they would immediately decide to come back. With this distinction, the fullborn would not be able to kill the herald, while someone at the 10th heightening could create a nightblood2.0 that would be able to kill the herald (although it will feed on their breaths during the usage). Since Nale is the only herald who currently has access to surgebinding, I'd say that he's the herald to put in this fight--of course assuming that he has legal permission. I'd also assume, that for the sake of the fight, the three contestants should be aware of each others abilities. So, who would win: Fullborn(with access to all 16 metals and a coin pouch), Nale(who can be reborn and is a 5th Ideal Skybreaker, with access to a pouch or two of stormlight-infused spheres), or Awakener(who is at the 10th heightening and has assorting things with him to awaken)

So I have been thinking a lot about how the surgebinders destroyed their previous planet . And the overall fear that they will do the same to Roshar. The only character we have seen who has been surgebinding for years is Szeth. Other than him we have shallan we have shallan who has forgotten much of what she has done . And perhaps some unnamed Skybreakers who we have no POV to judge from. But Szeth is clearly insane . What if it’s not him being abused as a truth less that drove him to insanity ? But his prolonged use of surgebinding that drove Szeth to insanity ? Thoughts ?

*Note I haven't posted a whole lot and don't know how to hide spoilers. So warning Spoilers If I remember correctly there is a WoB that all the heralds were at the palace during the night of Gavilar's assassination. So we of course know about Jezrin and Ash being there for sure as of Oathbringer. What about the other heralds? Is Liss possibly a herald? Or were they all background?