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By now, we know it is possible to actually kill the Heralds and not just kill them through the use of a dagger from Odium's investiture and that Moash has been entrusted with it along with Jezrien's Honorblade. But it kind of strikes me as unusual that they only armed him with the honorblade after he has already murdered Jezrien. Is there any implication with him having it while he tried to kill the herald? I know that killing Jezrien is meant to be seen as more of a test of his loyalty/passion, but what if it wasn't an actual test but a requirement? What if they have a plan with Moash? One that might possibly involve killing all of the heralds and bonding with all of their honorblades? We already have a WoB that says a Radiant CAN bond with an honorblade, therefore giving him access to additional surges or making his surges a bit stronger if he has the honorblade of his own order. Can you imagine how powerful one man can become if he bonds with all ten of the honorblades? Wouldn't that make him the closest one to actually becoming Honor? What if this is Odium's plan for him all along? To have Moash gather all of the honorblades, then gather all of the splinters. Only now, he would become a twisted version of Honor, maybe Loyalty? Honoring his debt of gratitude from Odium? Seems to me that Moash's whole journey focuses about his revenge and lack of honor (betraying Kaladin). Is he fated to realize his mistakes and actually become the new shard of Honor? Not to mention also that the original Parshendi were also from Honor. What if they were working against Odium to restore their old god? What do you guys think?

I think the dagger Moash uses does not 'kill' the herald so much as it somehow traps their soul (identity?) inside the gem on the hilt. From the book: Was it done this way to keep the current state of the Oathpact intact? The other Heralds POV we get mentions they sense the other's loss Does this means that they could somehow be freed from the gem later, rescuing/restoring them? Naturally, if any of this is true, I think it's possible we may see up to an additional 9 versions of such daggers with the appropriate gemstone on the hilt. Thoughts?

The scene where Kaladin deflects the storm, as well as Dalinar opening a perpendicularity, are radiants gaining access to heraldic abilities?

A relatively popular theory here is that Shalash will end up taking up the oaths of the Dustbringer radiants. While I'm not opposed to this theory the assumption that Shalash will become the dustbringer because of her new hobby of destroyering art seems a bit shallow to me... Instead I think Taln could be our dustbringer and Shalash the stoneward. I think it makes more sense to look at Ash and Taln's current weeknesses along with the divine attributes that define their potential orders (granted we don't fully understand how some of these apply yet). First off, the divine attributes associated with the Dustbringers are "Brave and Obedient". Taln is a much different man from who he was before. In addition to his ramblings we now know that he's become a coward. I don't think its a stretch to say that him working through his madness (with help from Ash) and finding his courage again is all but garanteed. Him overcoming his fear of battle would and swearing the dustbringer ideals fit well together. The divine attributes of the Stonewards are "Dependable and Resourceful". Now that the 2 of them have reunited I think its safe assume that Ash will be looking after and essentially babysitting Taln through his madness. As a redemption arc, it'd make sense to have one of the people that abandoned him be his rock in his time of need. This could be the perfect thing to get a stoneward spren's attention. Of course knowing Brandon none of this will be this straight forward, but you get the point.

When you look at this well known picture: You see a pretty woman that know things. She is also crazy (heralds ARE crazy). I think she is Rushu (I don't know how do you write it. I write it Rušú) the ardent working with Navani. She is pretty, odd and smart. It fits. Any other thoughts? BRANDON, IS THE ARDENT VEDEL???

About Divine Attributes The Divine Attributes listed for the Heralds are very interesting. As discussed in the past, it seems that each Herald has one attribute that is associated with Honor and one that is associated with Cultivation. I'd say that those attributes merged together form the Intent of the shard. Similarly the Radiant Spren are made up of the same two divine attributes as the Herald with which they share a Radiant Order. In them we can see that compounding attributes results in more than the sum of their parts. Cryptics are not well described by creative and honest, but show more of a Creative Honesty, making up new interesting truths. It seems that surge access is filtered by those compounded attributes so the powers you gain change with it. If you consider the divine attributes to be part of a mind, then it is not too far-fetched to assume that similar to emotional allomancy you can push or pull on it, rioting or soothing the respective attribute. So while you need to be strong in the two Divine Attributes of an Order to attract the spren and ease the formation of the bond, once the bond is in place the Attributes of the spren will riot the respective Attributes in the mind of the Radiant Knight. About the Making and Unmaking of the Heralds From the Eila Stele we know that the Dawnsingers believed that the humans destroyed their previous world (Ashyn) with powers of spren and Surges (Surgebinding) and with them came a new god, their god (Odium). I think it is quite likely that the spren bonded for Surgebinding here were voidspren of Odium. So what happened to the Surgebinders? Did they die or did they come along to Roshar? And if they came along, I assume they came with their voidspren still bonded. So what if one from each order of Surgebinders bonded to voidspren (maybe their leaders) is what later became the Heralds. When Honor made the Heralds in the Oathpact, he merged their respective voidspren with either a Radiant Spren or a similar part of his own and Cultivation's investiture and bonded it closely to their cognitive shadow, making them more spren than man. That means each Herald has a third unlisted divine attribute, associated with Odium, most probably related to emotion. This likely also gave them somewhat different powers from the surges when not using their Honorblades. Later Odium unmade them by breaking that bond and the spren part became the Unmade. That means each Unmade should also have all three divine attributes (compounded), even if the one from Odium dominates. The Heralds became insane afterwards. I think the reason is that breaking a bond leaves a wound in the spirit web that leaks the connected attribute, so after some time you are soothed more and more on it. The previously rioted divine attributes are now soothed causing insanity from withdrawal and lack of balance in the mind. In a way, I think Nale is less insane and I suspect it is because he bonded a Highspren. This would mean that a new bond on the same attributes can heal that wound to a degree so he mainly leaks the Odium attribute. If this theory is true, then we should be able to match a Herald with an Unmade each, finding the two listed Divine Attributes and a third Odium attribute in each (compounded, so influencing each other, forming a whole). For the Heralds during the Desolations those should be rioted, for the present day ones they should be soothed. Additionally voidspren and the Fused should provide hints about the respective Odium attribute of each type. Finally Renarin probably has one of the Truthwatcher attributes switched for the respective Odium attribute (or it was added on top, which is even more likely). The easiest match to look at is probably Jezrien and Nergaoul aka the Thrill. The listed attributes are Protecting and Leading. For the third I'd suggest something like Rage, as the battlerage protects and leads those the Thrill touches. Present-day beggar Jezrien has quite some similarities to Dalinar in Thrill withdrawal. There is not that much direct information about the behavior of old times Jezrien, but his clothing is supposed to be oftentimes stained and charred by battle and after Aharietiam he claimed to go to lead the "charge" for the Tranquiline Halls. So I'd say it is not impossible that a battlerage is in character for him. The second possible match I want to look at is Shalash and Re-Shephir. The listed attributes are Creative and Honest, but as stated above, that compounds more into Creative Honesty. And Re-Shephir's Midnight Essences can take different forms similar to the illusions that Lightweavers are capable of (Midnight Essences have more substance though). Given that Re-Shephir is attracted to violence, maybe the third attribute is something like violent (I don't really think it fits completely)? There is little about old times Shalash (that I can remember) except for Sadeas claiming a Shalashian temperament. Present-day Shalash was mainly busy destroying any depictions of her past, lamenting her lost creativity and not appreciating the perception that people have of her. Soothed violence does not fit there.

I read Oathbringer (twice, actually ;P) but the whole deal with Heralds is confusing me. What exactly happened with the Recreance and Aharietiam? The Stormfather is blaming Honor for not preparing the Radiants before he died. And some of the Heralds betrayed the other Heralds by leaving them in Damnation? I dunno. Can someone explain that? Also, how are they not dead. At least, Ash and Taln aren't. Don't know if there are others.

I was looking at all the herald's chapter arch pictures (is there a name for those things?) on the Ten Essences page the other day, and I managed to convince myself that Pailiah is, or used to be bald. Here they all are, spoilered for space: Pailiah, conveniently, is at the 12 o'clock position on the wheel. I always assumed that the lines radiating outward from her head were just a representation of her hair, but I no longer think that's the case. Looking at every other herald, there's a pretty clear distinction between the background pattern in each section and the head/hair/hood/etc of the herald. With access to the illumination surge she could appear however she wanted, but maybe she wanted to be bald most of the time? With her divine attributes being learned and giving, it wouldn't surprise me if she's considered a patron of the ardents as a whole along with Ishar. Maybe that's where the tradition of ardents always having a shaved head comes from? This is probably nothing and is really minor even if it is correct, but I'd be curious to know what anyone else thinks!

Spoilers for Oathbringer and Secret History: Ok, so from Secret History we know that: We also know from a WoB (I'm terrible at finding these) that the Heralds are cognitive shadows. So my theory question is this: Could Hoid kill the Heralds if he wanted to? I'm thinking that he could. There's also a theory that the way Moash killed Jezrien at the end was a form of Hemalurgy, and I like the theory. If Odium is using Hemalurgy to steal the investiture from the Heralds, then presumably he is gaining some sort of benefit (duh, lol). In order to deny Odium this opportunity, the most simple solution would be to just destroy the Heralds. If Hoid saw this as enough of a threat, I could totally see him wanting to destroy the Heralds, and with The Cognitive Shadow Loophole, I think he would be able to.

Hey guys I just came across this WoB on arcanum, and I apologize if this is common knowledge but it is new to me! Source So what does this change to you guys? Does this mean Jezrien was immediately forced to beyond or was he himslef captured in a gem (like some sort of spren in a fabrial)?

This is a theory founded on Moash's last acts in Oathbringer, and built considering that Odium is in desperate need of a champion that cannot lose. The theory is really pretty simple; What if Odium had Moash kill Jezrien, and gives him Jezriens sword, not just for the sake of killing him or for poetic symbolism, but because he intends to have Moash take Jezriens place in the Oathpact? Becoming a man that can be killed Physically only to be sent to 'damnation' with the only way out being the conscious act of betraying mankind (something Moash seems all too comfortable with)? The main queries for this theory are both how and why Odium would do this. The how could be done in a few ways, using the knife that killed jezrien as a hemalurgic spike is the most messy and obvious, the gem on the knife might also be used for this, or might also have its own purpose. The next is somehow having Moash absorb Jezrien's soul and meld with it, making them basically the same individual, and thus making Moash=Jezrien=Herald, if you guys can think of other ways that this may be achieved than please explain, I would love to hear your theories. The why is also rather simple, Odium needs a champion, and he needs one that cannot lose, he had a planned in place for this already, Dalinar fusing with the thrill entirely would have given him an unstoppable force for battle and ruthless tactics, undefeatable in combat through sheer skill, knowledge, and decisiveness. This theory suggests a back up plan, a champion that is an immovable object, if he can jury rig Moash into a Herald than that gives him both an immortal champion and someone to always hold the door open for his minions, because the only way for the ancient voidbringers to leave Damnation is for one of the Heralds to crack and manifest on Roshar to either escape or to willingly bring a desolation (the circumstances to the requirements for this are unclear, do they have to begin a desolation to manifest or does their manifestation begin the desolation?) But either way Moash could just keep coming back. with both Jezriens soul and his sword in hand I feel like this is an interesting next step for Odium, perhaps he even intended it for Dalinar, but is using a promising new tool in his stead due to lack of options or desperation

Who do you guys think would win? Lord ruler has no atium. The Heralds are Stormlight boosted by Ishar. Basically Immortal Fullborn or Immortal Heralds.

Ok so I have a theory that Shalash can not live through the Stormlight Archive. The reason for this is that we have a WOB that each book is dedicated to a DIFFERENT order of Radiants. The current flashbacks are set as: Kaladin: Windrunner Shallan: Lightweaver Dalinar: Bondsmith Eshonai: Willshaper Szeth: Skybreaker Lift: Edgedancer Jasnah: Elsecaller Taln: Stoneward Renarin: Truthwatcher Shalash: Lightweaver See the problem there are two Lightweaver books, and no Dustbringer books. When we know that Sanderson said that we are going to have ONE book for each order. So in my opinion Ash dies, Malata takes the Lead for that book, but we still get Shalash’s backstory.

Not all of you may remember, but before the prologue of WoK, there was a section that took place 4500 years ago. It detailed the abandoning of the Oathpact, the pact forged by the Heralds to defend humanity from the Voidbringers. This moment was never important until now. So why was the section taken from Kalak's point of view? Why not Nale, Jezrien, Ishar, or Taln himself? Is this fact important? Am I over thinking this? Let me know what you think below along with any theories.

SO! This has 100% been seen before, and 99% sure it's been discussed, HOWEVER! Aon Ashe means Light/Illumination Ash is a nickname for the Herald of the Lightweavers, who use light/illumination COINCIDENCE!?! I THINK NOT! Ash also talks about Jezrien being her father? Are they from Sel? Taln is talked about as a person who shouldn't have been a Herald, so are they all Elantrians/Selish except him? I know people from Sel have lighter skin/bigger eyes than Rosharans, but still Thoughts?

My read on this is that the Heralds tap out of torture time in Damnation/Braise then come to Roshar, presumably ahead of the Unmade to train new radiants. Then the Unmade come back, somehow power up the parsh (via BAM? void spren?) and fight the humans. Then, do the humans win when they defeat Odium's champion? Does that mean in the past? 'What does a win mean as far as what happens to the non-humans? (Not the wildlife) If Odium's champion loses, and all the Heralds are killed, do all the Unmade go back to Braise? Parsh warriors too? Or just the Heralds? Maybe the Unmade don't all die, they just jump to the Cognitive realm and then do the electric slide over to Braise? If the Unmade are cognitive shadows, some are less sapient and can be in the physical realm without a body/vessel and others more aware and sapient who need a body/vessel to operate (I guess they have all been seen on Roshar in "spren" form, just seems some are smaller versions of themselves as seen on Roshar vs larger versions as seen in the Cognitive realm, I'm talking more avl out being able to use powers, their form of void lashings, etc). Is Damnation in the cognitive realm? Because the Heralds are porting in their bodies, they aren't cognitive shadows. They are akin to worldhoppers, though a forced transfer rather than voluntary, but moving at the time of death and somehow when they tap out from Braise to Roshar. This seems to be predicated on the deal between the Heralds, Honor and Odium (and maybe Cultivation). But for the Heralds, is it a forced trip from spot a, to the cognitive realm, to spot b? T'aln certainly wasn't in any condition to wander through the cognitive realm. Kinda picturing Braise spren bouncers bodily dragging him through and then giving him a heave ho through a portal. And what about the parsh warriors/people? Since this is not a true desolation, we don't really know what's up with the "leftovers"; the parshendi/Listeners and parshmen. If the true desolation was ended, would the parsh people have left Roshar? Would they be devolved? If there was a true end to the last desolation, and if the parsh warriors of old were taken off world, would the current Listeners and parshmen have been affected (again, if the parsh get taken offworld) since they were either without spren, in dullform, or somehow affected by BAM's imprisonment and either voidsprenless, depowered, spiritually lobotomized, tweased, or had their Connection severed? Also, we know the Everstorm is new, so how did the Parsh get powered up back then in past desolations? Just BAM empowering? Did they have voidspren (seems likely), and then when Odium lost, what happened? The voidspren got flushed? The actual vessels/people/parsh went off world? arg!!!!!

I have a question for you guys. Do you think that the heralds will play a big roll in future books? Or do you think they are just a past power. Also are there any WoB on this?

There's a passage near the end of the book that immediately bugged me from initial reading: The obvious interpretation is that there should be a representative of each of the Orders here. The KR that are represented for sure are: Bondsmith - Dalinar Windrunner - Kaladin Skybreaker - Szeth Edgedancer - Lift Lightweaver - Shallan Elsecaller - Jasnah Truthwatcher - Renarin These are the 7 Radiants Dalinar appears to be referring to, leaving Stoneward, Willshaper, and Dustbringer. Malata is pretty clearly not being counted here. We know there's actually a 10th that Dalinar isn't aware of at the battle (Venli). So the question becomes: which slots do Venli, Taln and Ash fit? (As an aside - I did consider the possibility that one of the existing KR are in the 'wrong spot', but the only candidate for which that seems potentially likely is Renarin; for this argument I'm going to neglect this as a likely possibility) Taln seems pretty obviously the Stoneward. I think Venli is probably the Willshaper, as the spren she's bonded to doesn't look like what I'd imagine an 'ashspren' to look like, and she fits the epigraph description of Willshapers pretty well (though it also says Willshapers are pretty varied in the first place). So that leaves Ash. While the most obvious Order to associate with Ash is Lightweavers, Shallan is already in that spot. We also know that most of the Heralds probably didn't join their own Orders: The wording is interesting because Nale doesn't say that none of the other Heralds became KR, but specifically that they didn't join their own Order. While this also would technically disassociate Taln with Stonewards, Nale allows for room for not knowing about it, or (more likely) the Heralds that did join the KR (including Nale) probably did so after the last Desolation (which obviously would mean Taln didn't have an opportunity). That said, she's probably not actually bonded to a spren at this point given Baxil's interlude: So presumably she doesn't actually have a Shardblade, but she thinks she could get one, which suggests she's not actively bonded (no Shardblade, but doesn't see any reason she couldn't use a dead one). I'm not sure if this would preclude her from having previously been bonded, however. We also know that Ash's behavior is pretty destructive with regards to images of herself, as well demonstrated in pretty much every scene with her. This is quite anomalous from what we'd expect from Lightweaver behavior (artists) but fits pretty well with what seems to be pretty typical Dustbringer attitude. Finally, her name is 'Ash'! Okay, so not really evidence, but it'd be rather ironically fitting. So my hypothesis is that Ash is the Dustbringer representative - either she was one, or she's going to be the 'main' Dustbringer of the series. The other possibilities are that it's not necessarily one of each Order (though it otherwise fits so well that it's hard to imagine otherwise) or Dalinar is looking for a pattern where there isn't one (obviously because she's not actually a Lightweaver...). It seems like an odd scene to throw in either of those cases, however.

I'm looking for some help on something that a friend noticed. So at the beginning of WOK, as far as I know, Taln had his Honorblade in Damnation (or however that works) and Szeth had Jezrien's. But when Taravangian tells Szeth that Kaladin must have one of the other Honorblades, to convince him that Kal isn't a surgebinder, my friend I just talked to says that Szeth replies with something like "One of the other seven?" which seems to imply that the Shin only had 8 total (and gave him one). I don't have any of my SA books with me right now, so I can't check any of this to be sure. How many blades do the Shin/Szeth have at the start of WOK, and if it's only 8 (including Jezrien's), do we know where the last one is?

Hello, This is an update on a theory I built in a previous post. The goal of this theory is to analyze the Shin society, based on their relation to Stone or their inherent pacifism. For those not willing to click the link I posted, I will just quote the theory into spoilers. The first part of the update is the most obvious, as we get new shiny text evidence that establishes a link between the Heralds and the Shin, which is a pretty nice confirmation that there was at least relation of worship between the Honorblades as a symbol and the Shin. Note that the Shin walking up to the Honorblades and kneeling happens after Jezrien announces that the Desolation is over. The second part is more tenuous. With Oathbringuer, we didn't get many insights into the Shin society. There was a post postuling that Stone was holy for the Shin, because it was a reliquat of the era when Parshendi forbid the Shin to walk out of the mountains. I like this a lot, as it is a phenomen that exist in our world. For exemple, the prohibition to eat pork stemed from the fact that pork spoils very fast when you can not refrigerate it. Other reasons may include the fact that unlike many other forms of livestok, pigs are omnivorous scavengers, eating virtually anything they come across, including carrion and trash. This restriction on pork carries still into our modern day, when most Muslim and Jews don't eat pork. Even in countries where the sanitory reasons are moot, the religious tabou is still strong, and the rule is still obeyed as an absolute unbreakable rule. What is the link with the Shin ? Well it is simple. Being prohibited to walk out of the mountain, they decided that the most effective and simple way to respect the agreement with the Parshendi was to create a religious interdiction to walk out of the mountains. With time, this degraded to an interdiction to walk into the mountains, and as the mountains are pretty much the only thing made of stone in Shinovar, it soon began to be seen as forbidden to walk on stone. Now, the initial reason of the prohibition has disapeared, as humanity is all over Roshar, but the tabou and religious beliefs are still present in the Shin society. As an aside, I wonder if the propention of the Shin to keep to their agreement flawlessly is what drove Honor to the humans.

A sudden thought. Dalinar is a Bondsmith of Honor. Honor is dead. Odium talks to Dalinar and implies that Dalinar has the power to release Odium from the contracts/bonds Honor has placed on Odium. My conclusion from this is that in becoming the Bondsmith of Honor - by virtue of Honor being dead - Dalinar has become essentially the Executor of Honor's Will, and can enter new contracts, and modify existing contracts/Oaths on Honor's behalf. One of these contracts is the Oathpact. Thoughts?

In Oathbringer we learnt a couple of interesting new facts about Taln that differentiate him from the other Heralds So we now know that Taln never broke and was never meant to be a Herald in the first place. I have no clear theory as to why this although the former presumably is linked to the later but it does have some interesting potential implications. Were there originally meant to be nine Heralds instead of ten? If there were originally supposed to be ten, who was supposed to be the tenth instead of Taln, as it feels like a waste of a potentially interesting storyline to have the other as some generic human that has no plot meaning? Is the fact that only nine of the heralds ever broke linked to the there being nine Unmade in some way? How did Taln come to be involved in the Oathpact if he was not intended to be a Herald? What was Taln before he was a Herald and was that linked to him being the 'bearer of all agonies'? I don't know the answers to the questions, although for the last I think it would be thematically nice (if cliché) for Taln's lowly background being the source of his incredible will, but I think they are worth discussing and I love to hear people's thoughts

Towards the end of Oathbringer, Moash was given a special knife with which he killed Jezrien and was later given the Herald's shardblade. With Jezrien being the first Herald to die a true death (which probably means he cannot be resurrected), Is Moash going to the the newchampion of Odium?

In one of Dalinars flashbacks, he met a beggar in The Beggar's Court at the Royal Palace to share his drink. Could this beggar have been Jezrien, The Herald King, Patron of the Windrunner later killed truly by Moash?