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Found 241 results

  1. Hemamancer? Hematist? Hemalurgist? Hematologist? Hemalurgian? Hematician?
  2. I think I have an idea for how the SoScads got Metalborn powers. Hemalurgy. Think about it.
  3. Paalm freak = 1 Kandra = 2? Koloss= 5? Inquisitor = 11??? Any good sources pinning down or expanding these?
  4. Honestly, more SoS spoilers, but this just occurred to me. This is somewhat about Trell's influence, but more about his tendency to have (two) villains in these books spiked. It's almost like a pattern, but I think that might be a little far... So, how do we know that he was spiked? Wax mentions it in his POV in chapter 13: Was spiked, Brandon mentioned this in his Chapter 13 Annotations for Alloy of Law. Also: Odd? Well, we do know something about odd spikes that Sazed cannot sense. If Miles got a different metal grafted onto his spikes, then, in theory, he may have a Trellium spike. In other words, Miles was not possessed, but Trell had direct influence over him through his spikes, perhaps whispering words of grandeur (or whatever) into his ears. Driving Miles [more] insane, and upping those psychological qualities Miles presumably had some control over in the Roughs. In other words, much like Paalm, Miles' actions are directly linked to or influenced by Trell. I don't think that it excuses his actions, but one of the themes in all three books so far has been stopping someone you know/care about when they go bad because YOU would've wanted them to do the same thing if you were in their shoes. It's a strange kind of love; a strange kind of idea of mercy, really. First it was Miles, then Paalm, and now Telsin (she is still Wax's sister, so, I believe she fits the theme). It also means that someone else might go bad in the Lost Metal, since it fits the series' authentic. [Perhaps the last book will be stopping someone before they go bad, but that's neither here or there]. So basically, Miles was spiked just like Paalm; he was using Hemalurgy, it seems, and it was probably Trellium. Marasi should go and find his metalminds to make some...interesting connections...
  5. So, does anyone have any thoughts about how/why Kelsier visibly appears when Spook makes the decision "against his better judgment" to put the hemalurgical earring in his ear? This seems like it could be proof that Kelsier holds some portion of Ruin. However, it could just as easily be that Kelsier's greater Connection to Ruin and/or Spook enables him to use certain Ruinous abilities (like being in the Cognitive Realm and talking to people in the Physical Realm who have spikes and/or broken minds). I put forth that this strange occurrence is a function of Kelsier's strong Connection to Spook as well as his disproportionately larger connection to Ruin (compared to his connection with Preservation). Kel was able to influence Spook because of Spook's broken mind and the addition of the earring allowed Kel to appear to Spook and communicate with him fully. The only thing this doesn't answer is how the earring affects Spook's connection to Harmony. Thoughts? Other Questions to Consider: [1] Shouldn't using a hemalurgical earring connect Spook to Sazed? [2] Shouldn't the earring experience be audio-only (like Wax's conversations with Harmony in Era 2)? [3] Does Kel's visibility have to do with the physical proximity of Kelsier's Cognitive Shadow to Spook in the Cognitive Realm? [4] If #3 is "yes", does this mean that Spook's earring would allow him to see a nearby Shade visiting from Threnody? Why or why not? [5] What influences Connection? How is it increased or decreased? Are there different rules governing how it affects people vs. places? Full Disclosure: I really loathe the 'Kelsier holds Harmony's excess Ruin' theories, so I'm hoping someone has a way to explain this event that doesn't involve that. It helps me to note that even though we see a good amount of interaction between Sazed and Kelsier in MSH, we DO NOT see Sazed bestowing Kelsier with any powers or portions of his shards. If anything, we see Sazed withholding information from Kelsier that would enable him to affect the Cosmere in a more meaningful way.
  6. So assuming the one-eyed spike man is Kelsier, how exactly did he manage to get a physical body to anchor him to the Physical Realm? We know that Sazed refused him, and that he was plotting with Spook to find a way to get back. We also "know" that he's using Hemalurgy in some way. Some theories I've seen: He's using pure Hemalurgy to reform his body He got Spook to spike a dead or dying person (possibly Spook himself) with his "essense" somehow. He got Spook to spike a person enough that he could control them from the Cognitive Realm. He is using a kandra or mistwraith body. Kandra can't use Allomancy or Feruchemy. He eventually convinced Sazed to make him a body. He got a kandra to use his bones to generate enough flesh to spike and then he compounded Feruchemical gold. (Sorry if this is a duplicate, but the other threads I've seen dealt with the identity of the man, rather than how he came to be)
  7. Hello there! I have a question you may be able to help with. During the conversation between Wax and Harmony in Chapter 28, Harmony makes a remark about Bleeder's spike: "Would you have let her live on, a slave in her mind? Corrupted by that cursed spike that would forever leave her scarred, even if replaced?" (pg. 394, emphasis added) I suppose my question is this: we know that the effect god-metal Atium, Ruin's own metal, works better since it's his magic system, but what happens when you use a different god metal as a part of your magic system? We don't know what Lerasium or Trellium (no idea what to call it, although it seems connected to connect it to Trell as the book does just that) do when used Hemalurgically, except the Trellium will apparently hurt a Kandra beyond repair to use. What's going on here?
  8. Is it definitely the case that hemalurgy can only be used on animals/people? What would stealing an entire world's spiritual signature look like? Would it change the type of magic there For example, as a thought experiment: If a huge spaceship fired a hemalurgic spike through Roshar and into Scadrial, would it change Scadrial's spiritual signature?
  9. I was thinking about Alloy of Law, and I came to a theory about how one might go about making a Mistborn. I'm almost certain others have thought of this before me, but as usual a ten minute search turned up not much, so please link me to any relevant theories prior. Here goes. Mistborn: Recipes makes one Mistborn Ingredients: Two Mistings of every type Two Hemalurgic spikes for each Allomantic metal (can substitute Atium in a pinch!) Two candidates, one male and one female Instructions: Take each Misting, and spike them in the appropriate location with the corresponding allomantic spike, stealing their ability and killing them in the process. Tying them up and rendering them unconscious can make this step easier. Apply each finished spike immediately to one of the recipient candidates. Each candidate should get one allomantic spike of each type. One all sixteen spikes have been applied to the two candidates, allow candidates to recover. Once their condition is improved and they do not scream when touched, place both candidates in an enclosed room with a bed. For higher chances of a successful Mistborn, add flowers, a nice dinner, some white, and lounge music. Wait nine months, and remove baby from candidate. If everything has gone to plan, you should have a natural and unspiked little Mistborn. Snap and Serve.
  10. So, I've had this concept floating around in my head for a while now. It involves an Honorspren, a Hemalurgic Spike, and a villain. It essentially is a way for a villain to have a moral compass forced into them, since by my estimations Honorspren are basically perfect moral compasses. Or at least, close enough. SO. Imagine if you stole/somehow stuffed an Honorspren into a hemalurgic spike and drove it through the heart of say, Sadeas. Or maybe someone like Amaram. The spike, from my estimations, would only function as a hemalurgic spike so long as it is invested. How convenient that breaking the bond with a spren would also cause it to become uninvested. See where this is going? So. Sadeas/Amaram is spiked and told that if he doesn't act according to the Spren(AKA a decent person), and doesn't behave himself, he'll die - that spike in his chest instantly popping his heart or causing all sorts of issues. Would you guys be entertained by that scenario? How long would each person last? Can you think of any good candidates for this procedure?
  11. What happens if you cover a hemalurgic spike in soulcast blood? Here's my theory: First off, we know from SoS that covering a spike in blood transfers powers hemalurgically, and that investiture is intrinsically linked to perception. If a radiant were to soulcast blood right onto a spike (atium, in this case, because it holds everything), what would happen? Because perception has so much power, I think that it would be as if that person's blood covered the spike. A person spiked with this would thus gain control over two surges. If someone else were to use a soulcaster, it would still be their blood on the spike. This might have other ramifications, but basically, soulcast blood is a replica of the blood of the soulcaster. What do you think? EDIT: as many have pointed out, I misread SoS, and so thought that covering a spike in blood (completely) was the same thing as stabbing someone.
  12. I realize that by naming this topic, I have attracted the attention of the entire Dark Alley. Hold your cookies, please. Anyway, on to the topic. In the Ars Arcenum of Shadows of Self, it says on the topic of Hemalurgy that (doesn't really spoil much, if anything, but whatever) Come to think of it, it might be a WoB, but anyway, yeah. Hemalurgy basically involves ripping a piece off of someone's Spiritweb and stapling it to yourself. This is actually fairly similar to Nalthis' magic system, where people give up their Breath-a piece of their soul-to someone else. These stolen Breaths were used to create Nightblood, a weapon that can override Realmatic Thermodynamics and actually destroy Investiture, albeit slowly. This is the danger of Hemalurgy. Using a similar magic system resulted in the most destructive weapon in the Cosmere, with the potential to make it grind to a halt. My imagination can't think of anything potentially worse than Nightblood, perhaps others can think of why Sanderson put this in.
  13. Okay, this isn't going to be a real theory, but I wanted to throw an idea out to be discussed, and its partly predicated on the material from the sample chapters, so I needed a thread in the BoM spoiler section. According to the Ars Arcanum, Hemalurgy is "dangerous to the Cosmere". You know what else is dangerous to the Cosmere? Odium. And I think it may be for the same reason. Odium is trapped on Braize (somehow) and the only way he seems to be able to have a direct influence on things outside of Braize is through the Voidspren. But if they can only bond with the Parshendi, that is, on a Cosmere-scale, fairly limited. Hemalurgic Spikes allow Ruin to influence and directly control pretty much anyone and anything, so far as we know, and Paalm had a Spike which somehow seemed to let another Shard (or entity; I haven't given up on you, Rust!) gain the same influence over her. What if the person influencing Paalm is Odium? We know that there was a Kandra worldhopper, and there's speculation that it could have been Paalm. What if she went to Roshar and got herself spiked by one of His voidbringers (if the Parshendi are the voidbringers)? Because of their so-called fluid bindpoints, I would think that Kandra would be one of the easiest creatures in the Cosmere to spike correctly without Ruin's intrinsic knowledge of Hemalurgy. So Paalm comes back to Scadrial with some new spikes and a new voice in her head. Somehow, maybe through experimentation, she figures out how to charge and bind a Spike such that it can grant her Allomantic and Feruchemical abilities. Then she dies and the other Kandra end up with her spikes to study. What if a somewhat amoral and ambitious Kandra (looking at you VenDell) decides that the best way to study the spikes would be to try them out? Now Odium has a new servant who he can continue to study Hemalurgy through, as well as spike at least one other Kandra (assuming that the Kandra who calls herself MeLaan is in on the plan). If Odium can develop an advanced enough understanding of Hemalurgy to successfully spike humans, or create hemalurgic constructs, he could begin to spread his influence across the Cosmere, which would be very dangerous indeed. WOW, that got real tinfoil, real fast. I still think the possibility should be considered, though.
  14. This was the 'invitation' being sent out to all of those who have earned notice or been deemed worthy. Only half of the invited are expected to return willingly, Grim knew. The ones that didn't would just be used in the required initiation rituals. Game Rules: Sign-ups will last a week, until sometime on Sunday, October 18th! Quick Links:
  15. Shadows of Self revealed that coating a hemalurgic spike in blood prevents hemalurgic decay (or at least weakens it) and I can see why it was explained in the book. Without this means to preserve her spikes Bleeder would have been a lot less vertasile. Now, this next bit may sound obvious but if you stab someone through the heart, then the spike will be coated in blood. Meaning that a newly made spike should always have a protection against the decay. Yet in the Final Empire Inquisitors would hurry to get the spike into the new hoast immediately to the point of making some special stabbing tables. So what? Were they just hurrying more than was required given the coating or is the coating inefficient, in which case Bleeder's spikes, especially the alomantic iron one, should have weakened quite a bit.
  16. Question from a confused person. Did Paalm have one spike (the silver+red one), or two spikes in her (silver+red, and a Harmony spike)? If she just had one spike, did that spike just give her full Twinborn powers, then? Since she uses speed and steelpushes and so forth. Do we ever see her actually changing spikes by falling on them, like MeLaan mentioned?
  17. Forgive me if this has been addressed elsewhere, (and please point me there!) but do we know if both typical kandra spikes are supposed to bestow the same Blessing? (I've just begun rereading the first trilogy and it's been a while, so perhaps I'm missing something obvious). Or can a kandra have, say, both the Blessing of Presence and the Blessing of Awareness together? I know that it's more of a whole-of-Scadrial question, but since SoS deals so much with spiky kandra, it seemed more appropriate to post here.
  18. So, I was reading the AMA again and thinking about God Metals, and something Brandon said (basically that our understanding of the god metals has some holes in it) got me thinking about how atium works. We know that Lerasium can be used by both allomancers and non-allomancers, but in different ways. Non-allomancers do not need the ability to burn metals in order to tap the fraction of Preservation's power held in the Lerasium. Now let's turn to atium. To paraphrase what another user (mooglefrooglian) said on Reddit, Allomancy is required in order to burn atium--the burner either needs to be a seer or a Mistborn. It makes sense that a normal person swallowing atium is unable to use it like a person swallowing Lerasium is able to tap into its power, because swallowing and burning metals is part of allomancy, a magic system that is of Preservation, not Ruin. So, if used hemalurgically, is it possible that atium would not need to be charged, just like Lerasium does not need to be burned in order to grant allomancy? If this is the case, it could be that hemalurgic atium, like allomantic Lerasium, has more than one effect, depending on whether it is used within the magic system (with sacrifices, blood, and the whole works) or if it is just made to pierce the skin. The one hole in this theory is Shardic intent. It makes sense that Preservation's power can be given to anyone, since Preservation's intent is to preserve as much as possible. Ruin's intent is subtractive--compelling the holder to destroy and reduce things to smaller and smaller pieces. Hemalurgy requires sacrifice because it suits ruin's intent to concentrate power in the hands of fewer individuals. So, allowing for potential hemalurgists to gain power without sacrifice by using uncharged atium would be contrary to Ruin's intent. The only ways around this hurdle that I see are a) that the effect of using uncharged atium for hemalurgy does something that suits Ruin's intent in the same way that creating Mistborn fits with Preservation's intent, or b ) that utilizing the god metals outside of the magic systems allows the user to tap into a fraction of the shard's power, regardless of intent. Personally, I like option A better, but what do you guys think? Thanks for tolerating my musings .
  19. Spoiler from the first Mistborn trilogy. We know that Alendi was the (maybe) first try of Ruin to free himself. Alendi was a Seeker (Bronze Misting) when the Allomancy was much rare and weak. So we could assume that Alendi was a Seeker much weak than Marsh. Vin was a powerfull Allomancer (compared to the allomancer of her age) and she need a Hemalurgic Spike to detect the Well of Ascension pulses (Spike made from a probably powerfull seeker misting). We know Alendi had at least one "prophesied spike" (I don't have the English version of the book then I am not sure of the original worlds) but it is not to much (for me) a spike made from his era misting to reach his goal. Then how much additional power (and Spikes) Alendi needed for his quest ? You see other ways from him (and Ruin) to complete the journey ?
  20. This theory is based on a'>post I made in the Feruchemical Puzzles thread. So, atium is part of the body of Ruin and lerasium is part of the body of Preservation. Allomancy is of Preservation, hemalurgy is of Ruin and feruchemy is a combination of the two. If lerasium is burned (either pure or as an alloy), the burner becomes an allomancer of some kind. Mistborn if pure, misting if alloyed. A hemalurgic spike made of atium can steal any single power from someone with that power (in a messy and usually fatal manner). It has frequently been theorized as to additional effects of burning atium or burning an alloy of atium and lerasium (i.e., such as becoming a feruchemist). However, burning metals is an allomancy thing. So I don't think that burning would be a part of gaining any investiture except for allomancy. Alternatively, I posit that each god metal is universal for the metallic art of the associated shard. In other words, lerasium is universal for allomancy in that if burned in it's pure form, one becomes a full powered mistborn. Atium is hemalurgically universal in that it can be used to steal any power (not limited to allomancy and feruchemy). But what about Feruchemy? I also posit that an alloy of atium and lerasium (likely 50/50 or something close to that) acts as a universal metalmind (i.e., any attribute may be stored within it). So, to point out an area for speculation, one may become an allomancer by burning lerasium (no use of other arts to do so) and anyone can hemalurgically spike someone as per'>WoB. Again, what about feruchemy? How can someone gain access to feruchemy without the genetic heritage (feruchemist bloodline) and without using any other arts (i.e., no spiking)? Or rather, since allomancy and hemalurgy are both in some way universally accessible, in what manner may feruchemy be universally accessible also?
  21. In this extremely speculative post, I will try to describe a hypothetical form of Hemalurgy that I think is a substantial improvement over the form Ati taught Rashek during his Ascension. My purpose is to address the three main drawbacks of Rashek's Hemalurgy: It harms the source of Investiture, a.k.a. the Hemalurgic sacrifice/victim. Even if the harm isn't lethal (a possibility that so far has only been theoretically-confirmed), the victim will still end up with a chunk of his soul torn off. It harms the recipient of Investiture. Hemalurgy as it is currently known warps both the physical body and the Spiritweb in order to accommodate the sometimes ridiculously big spikes impaling the recipient. This, of course, is a trade-off that some recipients of Hemalurgic Investiture will gladly accept, but that doesn't change the fact that removing that huge Pewter spike containing stolen Gold Feruchemy will result in a wound that could kill you. It relies on the Hemalurgic spike staying inside a body. In this form of Hemalurgy, the issue of Investiture-leeching (in the form of Hemalurgic decay) is a top concern because it happens the moment the spike leaves the victim's body. And if the recipient ever removes the spike, the Investiture is also removed, forcing him to keep the spike in as long as he needs the power. Now, just to be clear, the alternative Hemalurgy I'm about to describe will still involve blood. This is still something that bears the mark of Ruin, except the damage is so negligible that Ati could very well have been blind to its possibility (assuming I'm correct that it is possible). Without further ado, here are the five steps towards a safer, more harmonious form of Hemalurgy. Step I: Get a very thin needle. There is one aspect of Drawback 2 that is easily solvable: If you don't want big-chull wounds, don't use big-chull spikes. Needles are perfect for this purpose, especially acupuncture needles, which can be inserted in the body without any bleeding. Incidentally, did you guys know that Brandon's concept of Hemalurgy was inspired by acupuncture? Note that last bit: "Not the way they know how to do it." This implies that there are more ways to do Hemalurgy, which is good because that's exactly what I'm proposing here. So, now you've got a sterile needle made from one of the 16 Metals (or a god metal, if you're lucky). The problem with acupuncture needles, though, is that such small pieces of metal aren't very useful in "traditional" Hemalurgic techniques. For one, it doesn't hold much Hemalurgic charge. Also, it might be tricky to reach the proper bind point in the heart of an adult victim using just a needle. Good thing my alternative Hemalurgy doesn't require stabbing the Investiture source's heart. (Goodbye, Drawback 1!) Step II: Carefully insert the needle into the target. You might think I missed a step. Why are we already inserting the needle into the target without first obtaining a charge? Well, we'll charge the needle later. Meanwhile, just ensure that the uncharged needle is inserted precisely into the proper bind point. Also, we shouldn't let any blood vessel be hit (which should be easier with a very thin needle), since we do not want the intended target's Spiritweb to be damaged. Remember, it is through moving blood that sDNA attaches to the metal: (We probably will have to hit a nerve, though, as implied in the first quote above.) But if there's no blood involved, how is this even Hemalurgy? ("Hema" is from the Greek word for "blood".) We'll address that in Step IV. Meanwhile, let us now charge our needle. Step III: Store a Feruchemical charge into the needle. There are two things I forgot to mention. The first is that the person doing to needle-insertion is the source of Investiture himself. The second is that this person is a Feruchemist. Once the needle is inserted into the intended target's bind point (making sure that enough of the needle is still sticking out), the Feruchemist touches the part of the needle sticking out and starts storing an attribute into it. If it's a golden needle, then he stores Health. If it's an aluminum needle, then he stores Identity, etc. (Edit: In hindsight, I suppose you could store the charge before inserting the needle.) At this point you might object that Sazed himself told us that a Feruchemical charge cannot be accessed by anyone except the person who stored it. And Brandon himself said that accessing someone else's metalminds requires some fiddling with Identity. I will answer that Sazed did not know about Hemalurgy at that point, and that I, in fact, intend to fiddle with Identity. Using blood. Step IV: Add a drop of the Feruchemist's blood onto the needle. Here's the most speculative part of this post. The Feruchemist will offer his own blood as sacrifice (just a tiny bit, so it's only a bit of a hassle), dropping it on the part of the needle sticking outside of the target's body. By doing this, the Feruchemist creates something we've never encountered before in the Mistborn books: a Hemalurgic spike inserted inside a target but with the sacrificial blood outside of the target. I hypothesize that the blood will do two things: First, since the blood belongs to the owner of the needle's Feruchemical charge, this will somehow trick the needle metalmind into believing it is in its owner's possession. (This is the Identity-fiddling I mentioned above.) Second, since the only bit of blood on the needle is exposed outside, and the rest of the needle is inside, this will cause a hybrid state of sorts. Investiture will try to escape the needle as in Hemalurgic decay, but at the same time it will try to Hemalurgically Invest its "owner", which it just so happens to think is the guy with the needle stuck to him. The result is that the needle's recipient will steadily tap the Feruchemical charge of the needle until it is depleted. If my assumptions are correct, then at this point the Feruchemist can keep on storing into the needle as much as he wants, and the charges will keep on being absorbed by the recipient. Step V: Remove the needle. Now that the intended recipient has had his fill of whatever attribute you wished to give him, feel free to remove the needle. There goes Drawback 3. Just don't forget to dispose of used needles properly. We are hygienic Hemalurgists now. Possible Objections/Questions This doesn't seem as powerful as traditional Hemalurgy. How would you obtain Feruchemical and Allomantic powers this way?I would guess one of the Spiritual metals (nicrosil, probably) might help with this, though you might need a Twinborn or Fullborn to achieve this. Even if you could not obtain powers this way, you have to admit that Gold Feruchemists (among others) could help far more people with this method than with the traditional method of being fatally stabbed. Stop being selfish. Are the bind points used for these Feruchemical-Hemalurgic needles the same as traditional Hemalurgic bind points?Maybe. *shrugs* Haven't really thought much about that yet, but the idea is you can't just stab a Feruchemical needle onto some random body part and expect this method to work. The Hemalurgic "art" of locating the right bind point still applies. If this is true, why hasn't Harmony taught it to people yet?Probably because neither Ati nor Leras knew this could be done with Feruchemy and Hemalurgy. Sazed would have to discover this on his own while playing with the powers. Assuming my theory is correct, of course. What do you guys think? Is there any WoB I'm forgetting that refutes the possibility of this sort of Hemalurgy?
  22. OK, just thought this one up: SPOILERS,of course. Is it possible to steal someone's Allomantic ability before they "snap?" Do you think that the Allomancy is part of a person's spiritweb enough that their ability could be stolen before it has become active? Having run this through my head, I can't decide. I'm leaning more towards no, because it hasn't manifest itself as an active part of their spiritweb, same as you couldn't use a Hemalurgic spike to steal someone's life force once they are dead, since, at that point, their spiritweb isn't tied to their body anymore. But, on the other hand (sorry for sounding like Tevye), it is ultimately a part of their spiritweb, and therefore could possibly be stolen. It all depends on if the ability has to be active to be stolen. Tell me what y'all think. Thanks, Nathan "Schventagon" Swensen
  23. It's well known that only feruchemist that filled metalmind with characteristic can tap it. The most logical explanation of this law, on my opinion, is that investiture in metalmind encoded with feruchemist's sDNA during the process of storing. So it's seemed obvious to me, that if somebody steal by hemalurgy the part of feruchemist's spiritweb that respond to this ability, he can use related metalmind because it will recognize him as master. Example. Feruchemist Johned stored some important information in his coppermind. But we have a man named Werlyan. Werlyan want to access Johned's coppermind. He uses hemalurgy on Johned and steals Johned's ability of feruchemical copper by brass spike. Can Werlyan now access Johned's coppermind, or demage by hemalurical decay made this part of spiritweb not fit?
  24. Okay. I was browsing through the Coppermind when something clicked in my head. I present to you, Exhibit A: HoA major spoilers: Exhibit B: HoA major spoilers and AoL very minor spoilers: I propose that the 2 are in fact the same thing. Why would Brandon have two nearly identical objects in the same series unless it were the same thing? Comments?
  25. I've been thinking about Hemalurgy and how it works and we know by WoB that hemalurgy can steal another investitures so.... if a Surgebinder is stabbed with a hemalurgic spike what would be stolen? The Nahel Bond? ( the spren will die then? ) the ability to breath stormlight? or maybe abilities related to the surges? This last option is more similar to the way hemalurgy works on allomancers and feruchemist, but Surgebinding don't work like allomancy or feruchemy, a surgebinder gains his abilities through the nahel bond so... what do you think? Any ideas?